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Have
Your Say
If you want to join the debate, please use the form on the main 'Have Your Say' page and your comments will be published instantly. Far from being locked up, please consider that the family concerned are never able to have a lie in during school time or enjoy the peace and privacy of their garden in the late afternoon. The coaches are a nuisance and a hazard. Why don't you ask them to discharge their cargo outside your house or are you just another nimby. You wouldn't like it or perhaps you would be at work and it would not concern you. If I parked a lorry close to the end of the road I bet the police would move me on. Why are the family a nuisance, what have they ever done to anyone? Have some consideration for others, JET <Email address not supplied> B.P., Herts, England - 12:15:22 Monday 28 January 2002 I totally agree with the concerned resident. Coaches have been going up Moffats for the past 17 years. What has taken him so long in complaining? He has lived there that length of time. This family are an absolute nuisance, and need locking up. No name given <Email address not supplied> No town/city, No county/state, No country - 11:01:14 Monday 28 January 2002 In response to the letter by the so called concerned parent. Would you like to have your child delivered at a blind junction thereby running the risk of having that child mown down because it is convenient for the coach driver to stop there? He finds it difficult to find a place to park at the end of Moffatts Lane because the parents collecting their children (God forbid they should be allowed to walk home and get some exercise) park with absolutely no consideration for either the coaches or other motorists. They are also to blame for the problem. I have had several near misses with children running to mummy' car across the road in front of the coach and in front of me without so much as looking to see if anything is coming or even caring. If I accidentally hit one of these little darlings it would be my fault because I do not have x-ray vision and cannot see through coach bodies. It is impossible to turn either way or proceed straight across that junction as the coach does not leave enough room for a car to pull in front of it. I was under the impression that such a practice was illegal. Sufficient room has to be left at any junction and this is not happening. Why not pull turn left into Mymms Drive and park on the straight section in clear view? I will tell you why. Because the residents of Mymms Drive have more clout and they don't want this monstrosity parked on their private road. Who would? It is a nuisance. All I can say is that the parents are willing to get their cars out and travel yards not miles to collect these children, why don't they collect them from school instead. Too much trouble. Daytime TV too riveting!!!!! I am totally fed up with the laziness and total lack of consideration shown in this village. When I moved here 16 years ago it was a really nice place to live. Now it is full of petty backbiting and downright nastiness just like everywhere else. Another Driver <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts, No country - 20:05:43 Friday 25 January 2002 Dear concerned parent, I live in Calder Avenue, nowhere I would add near the junction. But let's get one thing straight. The coaches parking at the end of the road are a nuisance and a downright hazard. The hazard is that they park right on the junction which means that cars have to overtake on the wrong side of the road into the path of vehicles turning into the road opposite the parked coach. There is a real danger of a youngster walking out from in front of the coach into the path of a car! They would not hear the danger due to the noise of the coach engine. The antics of mothers picking up children have to be seen to be believed. As soon as kids are loaded they tend to pull out oblivious to anyone else. The mothers park with their engines running and stereos playing for up to half an hour and couldn't care less about the pollution they cause. I walk past and witness this sad shambles most days on foot. If parents really cared they would ensure that the coach parked on a long straight part of the road. As someone who was lucky? enough to walk 2 miles to school which meant that home to home was 8.30-4.30 I feel really sorry for these kids and their 12 hour days plus homework. Any wonder they turn to cigs, drink & drugs? So basically have a little thought for the poor s*d that has to put up with it twice a day outside their house and put your own house in order first! You selfish person! JET You are welcome to my address by email on request! JET <Email address not supplied> B.P., Herts, England - 19:48:10 Friday 25 January 2002 I wondered if people knew about the vendetta being run by an unfortunate resident at the junction of Moffats Lane and Mymms Drive, against the school coaches which pick up in the morning and drop off in the evening nearby. This sad individual has taken to parking his white box van directly opposite another of his vehicles on the other side of Moffats Lane, thus restricting the carriageway to barely one car's width and causing serious problems to the coach drivers. This evening it appeared that the virus was spreading as two bright sparks had parked directly opposite each other half way down Mymms Drive (Ford Galaxy and Land Rover Discovery). Is this a related protest? Or just a few brain cells short of a load? But seriously, there are two points to be made here. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of coaches and your views of private education, Moffats Lane is an adopted highway and is therefore constructed and maintained to a standard which allows any roadworthy vehicle to pass and repass legally at any time of day or night. In addition, if a coach has difficulty getting through, what about a fire engine or other emergency vehicle? What would the occupier of 'x' Mymms Drive say if his pathetic protest caused needless damage or harm to a property or persons? Any other views? A Concerned Parent <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 21:00:59 Thursday 24 January 2002 Speeding into and out of the village of Brookmans Park. The road holds the same priority as the main road in Essendon. Can we not have the same speed deterrent or better. I live at the BP end of Bluebridge and the noise and speed of vehicles going away from BP is just as bad. richard bannister < Brookmans Park, No county/state, England - 13:12:20 Friday 04 January 2002 HAWKSHEAD LANE: a courtesy note to let other Lane users know that from Monday 8 January, work will start on a) building the new College Main Entrance in to the campus by Hawkshead House b) adjusting kerb-lines at our Service Road entrance c) closing our existing Main Entrance. Some disruption to traffic may be caused from time to time (eg when feathering-in &/or jointing new tarmac sections). The contractor will of course try to minimise this, but our apologies now as a precaution. The first new landscaping scheme is being held off a few days to let this ground frost clear (hopefully). Queries/ comments/ etc as ever to me please or via 020 7468 5111 or 01707 666333 ext 5111) John Fisher < RVC Hawkshead , No county/state, No country - 19:13:23 Thursday 03 January 2002 Last Sunday evening at 11pm the lucky residents of Bluebridge Road were treated to their own private showing of NYPD Blue, something you guys living in cul-de-sac's could only dream of! A speeding motorist coming into Brookmans Park from Potters Bar ploughed into the back of a car parked on the left hand side of the road. Within 5 minutes the police were on the scene - blue lights flashing. The first police car was soon joined by 2 more! All 3 with lights flashing. It was enough to wake my 18 month old daughter. At 11.30pm the breakdown truck arrived and lifted both cars onto the back of the truck (yellow lights flashing). I know that this happened late at night, when there were no children walking to school, but that's not the point. It happened and it's totally preventable. If the driver of the car had been forced (by some form of traffic calming) to drive within the legal speed limit through the village, this probably would not have happened. Phil Holm < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 21:17:23 Wednesday 05 December 2001 Dear John, Thanks for your comment, however I don't know where they cleaned as I walk the village every day and the same leaves and rubbish have been there years and possibly qualify as archaeological relics! I have not got any children so the benefit of the schools is just another example of having to pay for other peoples pleasures. (I know you were being slightly sarcastic, well I hope you were?). I live in a private road and get no return on my council tax apart from refuse collection, we even pay for our own repairs and the council charged us for gritting whether we wanted it or not! As usual the residents of B.P. subsidise other areas, it's the reward for working hard and being self-reliant. Best wishes all, and keep commenting, JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts, England - 22:29:41 Sunday 02 December 2001 For JET's information, the last time I saw the streets cleaned here was 17th December 2000. The reason I can quote the date is that they had parked their van on the pavement, forcing me to walk in the road taking my 2 year old son in one hand and my 10 month old son's pram in the other. When I asked the “work” men to move off the van they became abusive and refused to give their names. As you might expect, complaining to the council – and giving the registration of the van – achieved nothing. Ironic, as at about the same time the council was trying to force people not park on the verges. So two schools and annual street clean, along with exposing children to danger and abuse from workers may be good value for the rates. John Fraser < Brookmans Park, Hertfordshire, UK - 20:04:10 Saturday 01 December 2001 Dear Mr Baker, Pedestrians have right of way over cars, its just that they take longer to repair! Why not help the old lady across the road? Cars will stop given reasonable warning. A crossing would be a good idea it would make cars at least prepare to slow down. Can you imagine the fuss and cost of getting W.D.C. to carry out this. Please bear in mind the residents of B.P. contribute with the highest rates in the area and receive nothing except dustbin rubbish removal, when was the last time we had streets cleaned, in some areas the leaves from last winter are still on the floor. The verges are a disgrace caused in general by the residents themselves with their own vehicles. Best wishes all JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brokmans Park, Herts, England - 15:47:34 Friday 30 November 2001 Having seen the recent reports about speeding in the village I would recommend an additional width restriction on the approach to the village from the western end, similar to the one erected on the eastern approach close to the Welham Manor turn off. Dixon hill Road is a rat run and speeds should be brought down before a death occurs. John Farlie < Welham Green, Herts, uk - 14:35:15 Friday 30 November 2001 I saw an elderly woman struggle to cross Bluebridge Road yesterday. She had a stick and must have spent five minutes waiting for a sufficient break in traffic for her to venture across. In the mornings there are dozens of children crossing the road and yet they have no right of way and have to dodge the cars. Is a zebra crossing needed? A crossing somewhere between the top of the hill by the URC and Bradmore Green might also help slow traffic down. Baker < Hatfield, Herts, UK - 08:51:19 Friday 30 November 2001 If the village is so unsafe it seems odd that the constant roar of ambulance sirens isn't drowning out all conversation. I like the idea of creative measures. I still don't like - and never will I'm afraid - the infliction of speed humps and road obstructions. Most feedback from people with experience of these things in practice seems to be that they cause more problems than they solve. With regard to cameras acting after the event that is true if you approach the argument from that direction. However if one assumes that the cameras would change driver behaviour then you could argue that by slowing traffic down the cameras would achieve the desired result. Furthermore they would also capture a record of anyone whose behaviour was not modified - something you couldn't say for a 4WD driver cruising straight over speed humps. Anyway mountains and molehills. Brookmans Park isn't unsafe as proven by historical fact and I have significant trouble believing anyone feels threatened walking around it. Mark Charlish < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 15:45:40 Friday 23 November 2001 SOLUTION TO STOP SPEEDING: Put train tracks down on the roads and hand control to WAGN! Andy Kelly < Hertford, No county/state, England - 15:52:16 Thursday 22 November 2001 TRAFFIC IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD: just to flag up our long-established interest in and awareness of all aspects of this topic too! john fisher < RVC Hawkshead Campus, No county/state, No country - 14:54:51 Thursday 22 November 2001 Reference speeding: When I moved to the village 16 years ago the hump back bridge had a considerable hump, you had to slow down! Some bright spark in the council flattened it out and cars have been speeding ever since. A real nuisance are cars on main beam, particularly to pedestrians who are dazzled. What an inconsiderate lot live in this area now! Thanks to all who bother to comment on this page. If you read it post a comment to liven up the debates. Regards JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts, England - 14:03:40 Thursday 22 November 2001 I totally agree with Andrew's posting. Mark, you have missed the point. I don't want humps in Bluebridge Road just because I live in Bluebridge Road. I want Brookmans Park to a safe place. Where we don't feel threatened every time anyone walks to and from, or around the village. And I'm sorry, but I would rather have speed humps and a safe village, than what we've got now. Phil Holm < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 13:52:25 Wednesday 21 November 2001 I'm not a fan of speed cameras – they act after the event and too many are empty – but they are better than nothing. Which is what we have now, and sadly nowhere near 99.5% of drivers are considerate. If the objection to bumps and restrictions is that they look ugly then we could try to be a little creative. If the bridge on Bluebridge Road were more “humped” it would force the traffic slow to before they enter the village not after. The new pillars on Mymms Drive should be made more of a feature to narrow the road and slow cars coming off the A1000. I'm not sure what to do on Moffats Lane and Georges Wood Drive, but I'm sure features could be added. These actions would cut the maximum speeds that could be achieved in the village, thereby reducing the average excess speed. As this would be done without adding a series of restrictions, they may even be cheaper than the alternatives. John Fraser < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 13:31:00 Wednesday 21 November 2001 Andrew, I think we agree totally about the problem but we probably have different views about the reason and the solution. Briefly, speeding is an issue but more than that I would say selfish careless and incompetent driving are the main problems. As for the solution then ideally there would be a way to prosecute bad driving but the reality is that this is very difficult unfortunately. I'm all for a speed camera but against humps or chicanes for the reasons given. At a nationwide level it is a case of needing to educate people as has occurred with some success with regard to drink driving. Otherwise the whole country will be covered in restricted and obstructed roads just because 0.5% of the population drive unreasonably. Perhaps in this day and age it just isn't realistic to cycle with young children on anything other than back-roads? I mean that with respect; not to antagonise. Mark Charlish < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 09:43:16 Wednesday 21 November 2001 In response to Mark Charlish's posting: Mark I understand your view, but you appear to ignore mine. The facts as I see them, the cars are bigger, the speeds are greater, the roads are the same width so there's less room. The drivers are cosseted in their quiet, cars with ABS, traction control, side protection bars, air bags and so on, to make them feel safe and invincible, whilst the cyclists clearly are not. I suggest you will appreciate my point more if you cycle around the village with a young family one weekend. This is not another government led initiative as you appear to suggest, it is the view of people who are tired of the inconsiderate drivers in Brookmans Park who would simply like them to slow down and be considerate to other road users. Andrew Sherlock < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 08:57:27 Wednesday 21 November 2001 Re speeding: I've been trying to resist commenting but can't. As this subject has come up before let me say once only that I am not waiting for an accident to happen before action is taken. Should anyone suggest this I will simply refer them back to this post. I am also not against the idea of some type of action being taken; my concern is that a reasoned argument needs to be made that considers all points of view rather than simply rushing headlong into a course of action that is almost entirely focussed on the needs of one part of the community. By which I mean the people living on the specific roads in question. I agree with JET and AT that it is careless, selfish and incompetent driving that causes the real issues. It is very difficult to legislate against which I imagine is why the Government has chosen to focus entirely on speed which is very easy to monitor and attach fines to. The question that has to be answered is whether the problems being experienced are sufficiently great to compel the community to take action and if so, what action. I have never seen an accident or heard about an accident in the middle of Brookmans Park for the entire time I've lived in the area - which is more than 30 years. Therefore is it reasonable to incur significant expenditure and inconvenience the entire population of Brookmans Park in order to address the matter? I have to say I don't think it is. I do find it slightly extraordinary that people can choose to live on through roads and then demand that these roads be constricted or obstructed simply because they don't like the nature of the traffic that is passing by. Furthermore to reveal that the objective is not just to reduce speed but to actually dispose of traffic altogether (“this would send most non-local traffic through other roads”) I find a worrying remark. It implies people are driving around just for the sake of it whereas the truth must be that people are only making journeys because they need to (OK,….or think they need to in the case of some school runs). That's probably got a few people's blood boiling. No need. The purpose of this forum is a reasoned debate and I hope that is what happens on the 22nd. Unfortunately I can't make it so I won't be able to find out directly. For my part I do not want Brookmans Park disfigured by ugly humps or chicanes which I would argue provide no overall benefit as all they will do is create frustrated drivers, increase noise and increase pollution. They will also make Brookmans Park look like a North London suburb and thereby probably reduce property values. Altogether a bad idea. I do like the idea of having a speed camera and possibly a speed indicator at the bottom of the hill coming into the village from the Potters Bar direction. I think this would work and would be a good compromise. I cannot support disfiguring the village and causing all the problems above to address an issue that is only a matter of opinion anyway – remember, this is NOT an accident black spot, far from it. While we're on this whole subject let me raise a couple of other things. Firstly the state of the roads is absolutely deplorable and if you want to start talking about small wobbles having disastrous consequences then I think one of the biggest dangers comes from any road user dodging pot-holes etc. I would like to see some money spent on fixing that. Perhaps someone could raise this at the meeting? Secondly I think one of the biggest drawbacks of the village is the very unhelpful nature of the roads and parking around the central green. There was some discussion on this site a while back about this but it seems to be impossible to fix the problems that cause this congestion. One obvious thing is that the voluntary one-way school drop-off is really going the wrong way round and just makes matters worse. Does anybody have any other thoughts on this? Mark Charlish < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 17:45:24 Tuesday 20 November 2001 Dear Martin, The humps in Brookmans Avenue make no difference. Cars brake for them then tear off in frustration wheels spinning. The thud going over them is a nuisance to adjacent houses. 4wds treat them as a challenge. The humps in Northaw are set to limit normal cars but again 4wds and trucks are unaffected. I agree the speed of cars down Moffats is very fast especially when one considers the parked car/lorries hazards. When I walk along Moffats I notice that it is the residents themselves who speed and park inconsiderately in a lot of cases. I regret that self-discipline is the only answer and on that basis we have no chance. Regards JET P.S. Website is great but although possibly quite a few read it not many comment a bit like politics plenty of moans but no answers. JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts, England - 10:50:17 Tuesday 13 November 2001 As a resident of Moffats Lane I am all in favour of speed humps to balance those in Brookmans Avenue. At least we would then not have all the through traffic. Those in Northaw are irrelevant as they are not continuous across the road. martin soley < Br Pk, No county/state, No country - 08:54:48 Tuesday 13 November 2001 I agree AT the signs in Goffs Oak that light up when you speed appear to make drivers aware of their speed. Also you did not mention the commuters who are too lazy to walk to the station and drive with misted up or frozen windscreens at breakneck speed just to catch a train which is probably late anyway. Speeding is stressful and the time saved is lost due to the extra time it takes to wind down afterwards. Its worth the experiment, you will find that driving steadily does not make a journey take longer, speeding makes you just spend more time at lights and junctions. When is the last time anyone saw a policeman with speed camera in the area. They gave up because it achieved nothing. Regards JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Hertfordshire, England - 18:02:38 Friday 09 November 2001 Re: Speeding: I am amazed at the residents kicking up such a stink over this. The main culprits are the residents themselves. The mothers who are too lazy to walk their kids to school driving at break neck speed because they do not leave themselves enough time. They also race back to the school to collect the children and race them home equally as fast. These are the children that we are trying to safeguard. These are the children that will soon lose the use of their lower limbs because they are not being used for the purpose they were intended - to walk. Also the young drivers who park in the street playing what they call music oblivious to the fact that it can be heard for a half-mile radius. When they collect their passengers they then show off by tearing up as much tarmac as possible as they pull away. If they have an accident, they don't worry, their parents will just pat them on the head and buy them another, possible more powerful, car as a present. Also the people driving with their mobile phone glued to their ear and their necks at weird angles as they drive along swerving about whilst trying to read their latest text message. These are the people who need to be educated in how to drive with due care and attention. Speed humps do not work. The residents of Northaw will agree with me. It has lowered the average speed through Northaw from 40MPH to 39MPH. The noise created when a car passes over a speed hump is a rather loud dull thud. Would you want that noise in your house all day and all night. The only solution is to educate people. Perhaps one of those flashing lights showing the speed limit like they have in Goffs Oak. It has the same effect as a speed camera. If you approach it in excess of 30MPH it comes on and flashes the speed limit. Perhaps we should have more police with speed cameras. I cannot recollect seeing any speed cameras in Brookmans Park for some time now. What do we pay our rates for. It is time that we realised that cars are not a status symbol. They are a tool not a toy. AT AT <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 16:31:56 Friday 09 November 2001 Regarding speeding. As someone who walks around the village virtually every day it is apparent that the majority of drivers in this village drive at high speed whenever possible. The only solution is a police presence with officers prepared to book speeding and dangerous drivers and if necessary check over their cars for faults. The majority in this village are extremely well off and drive expensive cars. Camera fines mean nothing to them and humps appear to provide a challenge particularly to 4WD vehicles. A policeman could in my experience catch a bad driver every 5 minutes at Bluebridge road entering or leaving the village. Most culprits live in the area and it is only by luck (plus the fact that hardly anyone walks in Brookmans Park) that no one has been killed. As a car provides a protective shell to the driver most people do not know how fast they are driving and how much noise they are causing. In short without police presence there is no answer! E mail withheld as it is my companies. If anyone wants to talk to me leave E mail and I will contact Regards JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts., England - 17:04:13 Wednesday 07 November 2001 Speeding: As a resident of Bluebridge Road and the father of 2 small children, I am 100 per cent in agreement that something needs to be done to make drivers comply with the legal speed limits as they drive through our village. I am genuinely concerned that in the not too distant future someone will be seriously injured by one of these speeding motorists. About a year ago someone called at my house with a petition about getting some humps or cameras, but since then nothing has happened. Does anyone know whether we need to raise this issue with the local council, or with the local police. Phil Holm <phil@holm.co.uk> Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 18:02:30 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Regarding speeding. Whilst certainly not wanting to be contratrian in any way it is important to point out that a witch hunt against drivers especially at this delicate time of year would be most unhelpful. anonymous <Email address not supplied> No town/city, No county/state, No country - 17:46:09 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Note from the editor: Not sure your point is clear - particularly the bit about 'at this delicate time of year' - but please feel free to add your name and e-mail to your contributions if you decide to expand further or make more contributions in future. Regarding speeding. As someone who walks around the village virtually every day it is apparent that the majority of drivers in this village drive at high speed whenever possible. The only solution is a police presence with officers prepared to book speeding and dangerous drivers and if necessary check over their cars for faults. The majority in this village are extremely well off and drive expensive cars. Camera fines mean nothing to them and humps appear to provide a challenge particularly to 4WD vehicles. A policeman could in my experience catch a bad driver every 5 minutes at Bluebridge road entering or leaving the village. Most culprits live in the area and it is only by luck (plus the fact that hardly anyone walks in Brookmans Park) that no one has been killed. As a car provides a protective shell to the driver most people do not know how fast they are driving and how much noise they are causing. In short without police presence there is no answer! E mail withheld as it is my companies. If anyone wants to talk to me leave E mail and I will contact Regards JET JET <Email address not supplied> Brookmans Park, Herts., England - 17:04:13 Wednesday 07 November 2001 As a resident of Bluebridge Road and the father of 2 small children, I am 100 per cent in agreement that something needs to be done to make drivers comply with the legal speed limits as they drive through our village. I am genuinely concerned that in the not too distant future someone will be seriously injured by one of these speeding motorists. About a year ago someone called at my house with a petition about getting some humps or cameras, but since then nothing has happened. Does anyone know whether we need to raise this issue with the local council, or with the local police. Phil Holm Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 18:02:30 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Whilst certainly not wanting to be contratrian in any way it is important to point out that a witch hunt against drivers especially at this delicate time of year would be most unhelpful. anonymous <Email address not supplied> No town/city, No county/state, No country - 17:46:09 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Note from the editor: Not sure your point is clear - particularly the bit about 'at this delicate time of year' - but please feel free to add your name and e-mail to your contributions if you decide to expand further or make more contributions in future. I have already placed my vote for speed humps in the poll. The reason why I think these are best is because there is no escape nor negotiation - if you go too fast to 'even out' a hump you just leave your exhaust or shock absorbers behind. I would be interested to hear from the long term residents of Brookmans Avenue whether or not their humps have reduced the amount or speed of traffic since their introduction some years ago. I confess that I nearly always choose Moffats Lane in preference to this road simply to avoid the humps, so I presume most other drivers do the same. If humps were installed on the two main runs between Great North Road and the village I am sure this would send most non-local traffic through other roads, and the few that did still make the effort would at least be slowed down. I can understand Andrew's concern particularly because the eastern end of Mymms Drive is possibly the worst spot for speeders as they come off the GNR - I've actually heard tyres squealing as cars turn left off the main road. A nice high hump here would work wonders. Jeremy Ewen < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 16:08:30 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Drivers in Brookmans Park. I would like to raise the issue regarding speeding cars and a lack of consideration for other road users around Brookmans Park village. Given the 30mph speed limit in the village, I am disappointed to see so many vehicles travelling far in excess of this maximum. The drivers also seem to be unable or unwilling to stop or slow, for cyclists (however young), blind corners or for parked cars etc. Children cycling on the path are regularly subjected to speeding cars within a few inches of them. A small wobble could have disastrous consequences. I am genuinely concerned for the safety of our residents and visitors because of these inconsiderate people. To draw attention to them I suggest we post their car registration numbers and vehicle make and model on this site. In this way they, either directly or perhaps indirectly, can see that other residents of the village are unhappy with their behaviour. Perhaps then they will slow down, and be more considerate to others. Let's not wait until someone is hurt or killed, let's kill our speed not our children. I would be interested to hear what others' think about the problem and other possible solutions. Andrew Sherlock < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 11:10:57 Tuesday 06 November 2001 Note from the editor: A poll on speeding in Brookmans Park has been added to the site A couple of points on the Council reply regarding the roads. 1) clearly we need to direct our concerns to the District Council and not Herts CC 2) some potholes have since been fixed which is good. It is strange they didn't repair them all. Worse still what is really required is a proper resurfacing of the roads rather than this piecemeal approach which has left them very bumpy and prone to ongoing failure. The current policy is a short-term approach that isn't doing anyone any favours - either physically on a daily basis or financially in the long term. 3) Isn't the quote 'All drivers should be aware of the potential problems and should drive at a speed that reflects the current conditions' really great? We are basically being told that they recognise that the roads are rubbish and the solution is not to keep them in good repair but for users to work around the problem. Or perhaps put another way, the problem of the roads is our problem and not the Council's problem. Makes you glad that we pay all that road and fuel tax does it not? Mark Charlish Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 12:00:37 Thursday 22 February 2001 The road conditions are just as bad in Cuffley and on the way to Potters Bar. Are we to assume that the council will pay for any damage caused to vehicles or to people rather than do something about the roads until it is too late. Robert Manners Cuffley, Herts, UK - 00:26:54 Tuesday 13 February 2001 Does anyone have any idea how we get something done about the condition of the roads. I was going to say 'in Brookmans Park' but it really affects the surrounding area too. I don't want to be melodramatic but the condition of many roads is literally 3rd world. These roads are a patchwork quilt of poor repairs and are clearly existing beyond reasonable life expectancy. This is why we see very large pot-holes out of which the basic foundations are gradually being washed. These potholes are large enough to puncture tyres (in fact I know this happened to a mother and child the other day) and could cause a major safety issue either when people hit them or as they swerve to avoid them. Thoughts? Mark Charlish < Brookmans Park, No county/state, No country - 12:27:21 Monday 12 February 2001 Re traffic problems in Bluebridge and previous posts by Phil and John Fraser Phil - I'm not getting into this in public for fear of ruining a beautiful friendship. So one reply from me only and then I insist we proceed over a beer. My reply is shorter than it was going to be because I just typed it and then the PC managed to lose the whole thing. Grrrr. My basic point is that of course I'm not waiting for an accident to happen. However, if we all took this type of very proactive approach, every aspect of life would be blanketed in safety devices to protect us from things that might happen (I'm not just talking about cars here). We would have to go down this route otherwise we'd be accused of waiting for an accident to happen !! I'd like to think that the normal process for considering use of public funds is to look at the need and the risk and the available funds while at the same time considering the priority vs all other current issues as well as the views of the majority of the population. I'm not really convinced about the value of traffic calming and I susepct you feel the same when it comes to many other roads. I think there are a limited number of places where the expenditure and the negative effects are outweighed by the benefit. Personally I don't think Bluebridge Road is one of those places. When it comes to assessing risk it is sensible to look at the history of the object in order to determine how many problems (in this case accidents) have occurred in the past. Of course I have no stats to back my 'zero accidents' claim any more than you guys have stats to support you. I can only say I've lived here for 6 years and in the general area for 30+ and I can't remember any incidents. Unlike, say, the road from PB to Enfield which is a known blackspot. Finally when I say traffic calming I'm thinking of humps and narrowing etc. Things that
would slow the traffic but would also increase acceleration/deceleration activities,
increase the volume of frustrated drivers (not justifying that - simply believe it's
true), increase immediate pollution and probably decrease the value of your houses. I'm
not including publicised speed cameras which I think would be effective at discouraging
the real problem : namely people not braking as they whizz down the hill into BP and the
reverse where people accelerate down the hill as they pass Bluebridge Ave. With regard to
the idea of roundabouts at the end of Moffats and B Ave I'm not sure this would deal with
the problem because they'd be too far away from the fast stretch (approx centred on the
small bridge). As a fairly new resident of Bluebridge Road I have to say how
shocked I was at the speed at which the traffic passes allong the road. At the time I
bought my house I realised that it was on a through road and therefore expected more
passing traffic. What I didn't realise was the fact that along this stretch of residential
road there seems to be a complete dis-regard of the speed limit. Mark, I have far better things to do with my time than look up names in a
directory. Originally I had wanted to nominate two roads which people wouldn’t drive
down unless they lived on them and had chosen Peplins way and Bluebridge Avenue. However,
it turns out that our wives know each other and once I discovered you lived on Peplins way
it seemed dishonest to keep Bluebridge Avenue in. I am trying to decide whether there is any point having a constructive debate about
traffic calming. Clearly all the people supporting it live in Bluebridge Road itself and I
can understand their views to some extent. I must congratulate John Fraser on reading the
telephone directory. Yes, I do live in Peplins Way and I chose to live here to avoid all
of the traffic related problems that living on a through road implies. Oddly enough I don’t let my children to play in the street – although as child I did. I also try to teach awareness of traffic to my children. However, all parents know that it only takes a second for them to be distracted and for a child to run out onto the road without looking. In that one second the child can be killed. Even when it is not the driver’s fault, speed is a factor in how serious the results of an accident will be. And high speeds do give the driver and the pedestrian less time to ensure that the accident never happens. The design of modern cars gives a pedestrian no chance. The distance of the outer surface of the car to absorb impact before the person’s head hits the inflexible solid metal of the engine is minimal. The pedestrian has two ways of not having their brains turned to mush, or spine broken. One involves the kind of luck that makes the lottery look like a good bet. The other is that the car is travelling below thirty. Almost no one survives being hit by a car travelling at forty, and I’ve seen cars travel in excess of this today. An accident black spot is a section of road where people have been killed, maimed and crippled; it is a section of road where lives have been destroyed. I don’t know how high the body count needs to be to classify a road as a black spot. Perhaps someone would like to give a number of ruined lives to make road humps acceptable. Personally I wish to be proactive. I have driven though Welham Green many times, including during the rush hour. As a
driver I don’t like it, but I am objective enough to see it works. And while I have
never ridden a motorcycle, I have cycled passed it, and it is not a dangerous as other
sections of the same road. I do not think a motorist’s life is of any less worth than
a pedestrian’s. My point was about the odds of surviving. Most car passengers will
walk away from a collision at speeds that will certainly kill a pedestrian. However, a
driver has control of his car and more responsibility to keep the road safe. If a car does
go out of control when clipping the curb, it must have been travelling at excessive speed.
John Fraser < We would like to contribute to the debate on proposed traffice calming in Bluebridge
Road. Re: Traffic calming John Fraser on the traffic calming measure in Welham Green: You obviously haven't seen this obstacle during the rush hour. I believe it's dangerous
either as a pedestrian walking past it or as a driver. I do not like driving past this.
Very often cars (who do not have the right of way) try to squeeze through the gap very
quickly with cars approaching infront. The cars that have the right of way have a bolshi
attitude and will not slow down for the approaching cars. The situation always looks
alarming. I've also seen cars nip through so quickly that they clip kerbs etc. I do
believe it is dangerous. I take offence at John Fraser's suggestion that my views would only be changed by seeing someone killed or maimed. Obviously you hold strong views about this John which is fair enough; it is not acceptable for you to make these sort of remarks however. A few further comments from myself. I await a reasoned argument in response to the issues I raised in my previous posting specifically with regard to the proven need for traffic calming and with regard to the carbuncle in Welham Green. It is quite extraordinary to suggest that it's fine for motorists to have accidents but not for pedestrians. Let's just think it through. While I agree motorists are protected by various devices their lives and well-being are worth no less than those of pedestrians. Furthermore, there are motorcyclists and cyclists who could be involved in problems with the Welham Green installation. Finally the nature of the work means it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a car could swerve onto the pavement to avoid an unexpected confrontation. So while it may well be necessary to have some sort of traffic calming measure in Welham Green I absolutely dispute that this is a fair and safe solution. I am not waiting for someone to be killed. No-one is. It is infantile to suggest this. What I would like to know is whether Bluebridge Road is an accident blackspot or not. I've lived in the area for 6 years and I can't remember any accidents. Therefore is it needed or do we think we need it because other towns have got bumps and lumps all over the place? By the way, I do drive down Bluebridge Road on a regular basis. I also come back to the issue of limited funds. I'm going to guess something. I'm happy to have this guess challenged but I would guess that some folks living in Bluebridge Road really want this while on the other hand just about everybody who visits or lives in Brookmans Park is affected by the traffic problems around the green. We also all suffer from the general state of the roads. The question therefore is, if we are going to spend any of the funds, what is the priority? Finally another view that will probably get folks hopping mad. When you respond please try to say why things have changed - if they really have. And remember I am a parent and I actually have friends with children living in Bluebridge Road. The issue is this. When I was young our house was on a through road - not a major road but equally not a cul-de-sac. I played in the BACK garden. I was very firmly encouraged not to play in the road. When I was older I did play in the street but the previous respect for the road that was drummed into me made sure I was very aware of the dangers. Furthermore when I played 'in the street' I played on the pavement etc and NEVER in the actual road. Where I had friends who lived in cul-de-sacs things were easier of course but equally where I had friends on more major roads (equivalent to Bluebridge Road) we never ever played in the street. I am not saying that cars should speed through the village at 70mph. I am not saying this at all. I am just confused about why there is this big concern about children in this road? It is clearly a through road and any responsible parent will therefore be a) watching their children closely and b) banning them from playing at the front of the house. If one agrees that this is a reasonable assertion and if we have no incidences of cars
careering off the road into gardens, houses, pedestrians etc then I still have to question
the need for traffic calming. This may be a biased view (acutely it is a biased view), but the debate on traffic
calming is split into two camps – those who want it before anyone is killed, and
those who want it only after the required number of people have been maimed and killed. I
know the Welham Green “obstacle” is not popular, but it makes cars slow exactly
because it is carriageway obstruction near bend, and is less dangerous than cars
travelling at speed. Even if it did transfer the risk of an accident from the pedestrian
to the motorist, which I dispute, it would still be valid. The motorist, protected by
crumple zones, air bags and seat belt is far more lightly to survive than a pedestrian,
whose only crumple zone is their skull. With reference to the comments of the two Johns :-) I realise this is a politically incorrect view but it concerns me that Brookmans Park might also be blighted ny traffic calming. I am a parent. I am not unreasonable. I understand the arguments. However what seems to be occuring with increasing frequency is that the very limited road funds are being spent in rather undemocratic ways. It is true that increased road speeds increase the risk of serious injury. They do not necessarily increase the risk of accidents so I think John S's point is well made - we need to understand how many accidents there have been and what the cause really was. It is then possible to balance the worth against the cost. At the moment it is fashionable to greatly weight the decision-making against the road-user. I would rather see funds allocated to repairing the roads and providing a solution to
the traffic flow around the green and school. I would rather not see funds spent on
further reducing the traffic flow and generally inconveniencing the motorist unless there
is an absolutely cast iron case to do so. Given the other issues that exist we do seem to
have a strange sense of priorities - there have, for example, been various suggestions for
a one-way scheme around the green but this has never progressed due, guess what, to a lack
of funds. To conclude, traffic calming is supposed to be used only in known accident blackspots.
I don't believe we have any of those in Brookmans Park. No-one wants to see accidents but
I'm afraid I'm very sceptical about traffic-calming. I think that it is in most cases a
bad use of limited funds and I am doubtful about whether it meets the desires of the
majority. It is also interesting how many of these projects see the light of day at the
end of the financial year when no doubt funds need to be spent or lost. Brookmans Park is
an attractive place which, like many places these days, already has some congestion and
parking problems. I would be opposed to disfiguring the roads or worsening these problems
with dubious schemes that try to address unproven problems; particularly in this age of
very limited funding. In answer to John Sales, safety is an issue. I have seen a number
of near misses, cars travelling far in excess of 30 and I have been overtaken on the right
while doing a right turn into my drive – a very frightening event. I can’t quote
exact figures on traffic calming, but I remember a study that showed that person hit by a
car travelling at 20mph would almost certainly escape without serious injury, at 30mph
would probably be killed or seriously injured and at 40mph would almost certainly be
killed. In other words, even where traffic calming does not reduce the number of
accidents, it reduces the severity. Without doubt the average speed on Bluebridge Road is
higher than Brookmans Avenue, and I believe some form of traffic calming would reduce the
disparity. It does not have to be road humps, a system like that in Welwyn Green –
where a child was killed – would help. The trouble with speed cameras, on the rare
occasion they are loaded with film, is that they work after the speeding has occurred. I notice that several people are wanting traffic calming
measures, but I bet no-one has done any research in to how many accidents have occured in
Brookmans Park and why over say, 10 years. I suspect that the 'wanters' just want it
because of gut feel. If the wanters have their way and measures do not then reduce
accidents, we all have to suffer sleeping policemen and the like for no good reason. If
the wanters can substantiate a bad safety record, I'll be the first to support them with
safety measures, eg a speed camerera on Bluebridge Rd, just after the bridge. Living on Bluebridge road, I agree with Jeremy Ewen about the excessive speed at which
some people drive. The run down Bluebridge Road from Hawkshead Lane encourages drives to
put their foot down and far too many are still doing sixty or more when they reach the
village. Bluebridge road desperately needs traffic calming measures before a child is
killed. Sadly the problem is not celebrities, in my experience it is frequently mothers on
the school run. In an act of thoughtfulness they rush to pick up their own children to
keep them safe, and put every other child in danger. Regarding the recent complaints about summer bonfires, the trouble
is that gardening books tell you to burn plants affected by fungal growth or insect
infestation, and also certain weeds whose seeds would survive the composting process, thus
keeping your compost 'sterile'. We don't seem to suffer from bonfire smoke too much up
this end of the village, in fact my main complaint is about the revolting smell of
barbecues which people insist on having on summer afternoons and evenings. Not being meat
eaters, the smell of charred meat and burning fat is sometimes quite nauseating! Having recently moved to Welham Green (I do hope I can mention WG in a Brookmans Park
website), I have noticed how traffic speeds through Dixons Hill Road. I have only been
here for 3 weeks and already have witnessed a collision between two cars. I was disappointed to read the news about the proposed One-way
scheme in the village. I was hoping I am replying to the note from Geoff Hunt re the proposed one way
system for Brookmans Park. We have a map of Re: One-way system It is interesting to see the controversy surrounding the
Controlled Parking Zone in Potters Bar. Although the Council claims substantial
consultation was undertaken I think it is doubtful whether the full magnitude of the
arrangements was widely appreciated. To me, it seems like an awful lot of ratepayers
money has been spent on an unnecessary Although I moved from the village about a year ago, I was for some
time Chairman of the North Mymms Residents Association - some may remember me. We looked
at the congestion problem around Bradmore Green several times and drew up a scheme for
one-way traffic very similar to the one Mark is now proposing. When we discussed our
proposals with WHDC, however, we were told that any one-way street has to have a traffic
sign at each end showing the direction of traffic and each sign must be illuminated. This
would have meant at least 8 signs which everyone thought would desecrate the green still
further, apart from the cost of the signs themselves and the provision of services to
them. Neither WHDC nor the Parish Council would contribute to the cost, so the proposal
didn't get any further. It might be worth talking to Colin Banks (present NMRA Chairman),
Dr Peter Kann and others who were on the Committee at the time. Sheila Woolard's observation is an excellent one; something I had
not even thought about despite the simplicity of the suggestion. When I finally get
around to sending this whole idea to the Council I will include this aspect. AS I LIVE IN PEPLINS WAY, I BELIEVE THE SCHOOL ROUTE SHOULD GO DOWN PEPLINS WAY AND BACK OUT OF BRADMORE WAY, THEN THEY DO NOT HAVE TO CROSS THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC, AS QUEUES WAITING TO CROSS THE TRAFFIC OUT OF PEPLINS WAY CAUSES MUCH CONJESTION SHEILA WOOLARD Re Mark Charlish's suggested alterations to ease traffic flow in
the village. This seems to be a very sensible solution to the problem and I hope it gets
lots of support, you have mine - Good luck. Since you ask, here's some thoughts about speed restrictions. Obviously no-one wants to see injuries or fatalities but this topic is symptomatic of the power that is now wielded by the anti-car lobby. It seems to me that the rights of the car user are seldom heard. My view is that the current speed limits are just fine. The fact that they cannot be enforced will not be resolved by reducing the actual limit. The people who speed would still speed (only more often I guess) but they would be joined by otherwise law-abiding citizens trying to keep within the authoritarian regime. I guess my difficulty is that this area seems to feature a minority interest controlling the everyday experiences of a large number of people. I am not suggesting that car-users run amuck - merely that the needs of everybody have to be considered and a compromise reached. The current limits seem fine - if we start down the road of tightly controlling every aspect of car ownership then it won't be long before we are all obliged to have a guy waving a red flag in front of the car.......... The other aspect that I expect this will involve is traffic calming. I don't doubt that certain traffic calming measures are great but many of them are just dire and a complete waste of our money. As an example I cite the ludicrous 'congestion island' in Welham Green located, as it is, on the awkward side of a bend with limited visibility. The trend towards these things is very unfortunate. They are frequently unsafe and seem only to wind-up otherwise placid drivers. There has to be a better way.............. Mark Charlish Current 'Have Your Say' contributions 'Have Your Say' Form Front Page feedback: feedback |
