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Author Topic: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms  (Read 591861 times)

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Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« on: May 08, 2002, 10:08:49 am »
15 October - WHC Cabinet Housing & Planning - Housing need for the borough (numbers), review of promoted sites for home in and around WGC & Hatfield taking account of the Green Belt & Landscape Sensitivity and Capacity Studies.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 02:23:16 pm by Mermaid »
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Offline jet

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2002, 02:27:39 pm »
Surely everyone was aware of Government policy when they voted last year. ???
I million extra imigrants ( See press today) They have got to go somewhere :'(
My old saying " when its gone its gone" :'(
regards,
jet
Not Party political as they are all the same. ;)
 

Offline john

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2002, 02:51:09 pm »
A careful, objective, informed, full, even-handed, comprehensive, ...  review should not be a bad thing ?
 
The Green Belt was invented for London in the 'Thirties as one of a "bundle" of strategic planning policies in a very different world than now exists.  For example, it was then about the only planning restraint-policy, whereas now there is a whole-raft of sustainability, conservation, TPO, HPO, SSSI, Listed Buildings, AONB, Landscape significance, ... controls which in total affect almost the whole of the country.

Certainly I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next   -  not least the response to   "emotive" ?  "debate-stimulating" ?   by-lines as "Green Belt under threat ".  

 

Mary_Morgan

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2002, 04:22:04 pm »
For interest, many years ago a surveyor with the old Potters Bar Urban District Council told me that Brookmans Park should never have been built and that this had been said in some report.   The suggestion was the development would eventually merge Potters Bar and Hatfield.  

Have a look at Peter Kingsford's A Modern History of Brookmans Park 1700-1950.  The quote in Chapter 5 click here under the heading town and country planning is presumably the report that my old friend mentioned to me.  

Not a comment either way, just interesting.

Mary

Edited by Forum Admin to put the link in.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2002, 05:11:50 pm by admin »
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2002, 04:54:55 pm »
Quote
Certainly I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next   -  not least the response to   "emotive" ?  "debate-stimulating" ?   by-lines as "Green Belt under threat ".

Just to clarify, the headline on the front page poses the question, "Is the green belt under threat?" and the thread's headline is, "Green belt threat?".  The all-important question mark is left off in the quote above making it a statement rather than a question. Of course a headline reading "Green Belt under threat" would clearly be drawing the debate to a premature conclusion and could correctly be termed 'emotive'.
If you read the BBC story, linked to in the original post in this thread, it also reports that the Council for the Protection of Rural England (CPRE) has warned that any compromise will open the floodgates to mass development.  In the same report the Government says it has enlarged the greenbelt by 30,000 hectares since coming to power. So it is not a forgone conclusion and it is a subject worthy of debate, especially in an area like this. Hence the question in the post and front page, raised by both sides being put in the BBC story.
In answer to the quote above, and judging by the other contributions on this thread, it seems that "debate-stimulating" is about right.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2002, 05:09:26 pm by admin »
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Offline jet

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2002, 05:23:07 pm »
Slightly off thread.
Do not forget the Government took "family" stately homes from landed folk using inheritance tax laws.
The value of homes around here means that even "ordinary" folk who live in property valued "high" because of the area can no longer assume that their property will stay in their family ( even with best loopholes).
All I am pointing out that the thin edge of the wedge 70 years ago will possibly mean that we will all loose our property to the state in say 30 years?
You read it here first.
Do not forget that any property that includes a right of way (all houses around here) ie when they were fields someone walked over them, can be liable to sequestration of part/all of their garden by anybody who needs it for access!
Article Telegraph last month. It has and is happening to people.
I can hear someone saying " no it couldn't happen to me"
regards,
jet
P.S. I think we should all treat statements as general and not be too pedantic or no one will say anything?
 

Offline john

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2002, 06:37:55 pm »
Dear Forum Administrator:  it wasn't your headline I was "quoting", but the gathering "rush" in other branches of the media ... !
Regards -   j
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2002, 06:44:11 pm »
Hi John, and there was I spending all that effort defending the site when it wasn't under attack. Apologies for misunderstanding your post.   :-[
David Brewer
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Offline john

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2002, 11:53:54 pm »
and hi to you too David !

Quite understand your natural urge to defend your "offspring"  -  as you know, I'm often to be "found at the barricades" on behalf of the defence of the Vet College (& hence another "post" from my office desk at this hour of the day)

Best wishes  -  John
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2002, 10:18:11 pm »
Checkout www.greenbeltsociety.org.uk and search against RTPI.  The RTPI have wanted to 'modernise' Green Belt policies since at least Sept 2000.  Before his move from DETR, John Prescott stated that planners and developers must redevelop town centres first , then move out sequentially thereby making Green Belt the last option for development.

My personal opinion is that Government should bring back a policy from the 1960's of encouraging (with grants) businesses to move from the crowded South East to the run-down areas elsewhere in the country.  'Elsewhere' was, and still is, where there are lots of houses and people but local jobs are still disappearing.  Memory tells me that the Relocation Agency was too successful and so it was closed down!  Moving jobs to people makes even more sense in 2002 in my opinion.  
(confession time - in the late 1960's I moved to London from Manchester to get a job, and have no desire to move back. I have lived over half my life around London so it is now 'home' to me)

Offline eric

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2002, 05:08:20 pm »
Well it's interesting to see that no one has apparently any concerns about a review of the Green Belt given that amongst other things, more housing should help bring house prices down towards what we local workers can afford to pay  (rather than these city folks on fat salaries who don't really need to be here but are because of their aspirations for "country living")
Eric
 

Offline john

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2002, 07:59:49 pm »
Steady on Eric.   I know prices are high hereabouts but are you suggesting that if the Green Belt is to be taken seriously by people, they should accept some sort of residential "qualification"  -  like in the Lake District, or as recently suggested for parts of Wales ?
Regards -  John
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2002, 08:16:24 pm »
Any one who thinks this is the "country" needs to consult an oculist ;D
Any one that thinks living here is not the result of hard steady work is missleading themselves.
All the people I know in my road started life with nothing.
True there are some city gents around here, but they do not get paid for being lazy or failing at there job.
There are also quite a few pensioners on the limit of their income, again worked for.
Both myself and my wife earn below the average wage, it does not stop us budgeting accordingly and saving so that we can now own a (relatively) expensive house.
What ruined this area is the people who moved here and have changed a once rural area to suburbia, thus spoiling it for all.
Three jags has his eyes on our wealth and in time inheritance tax will give the government the lot.
regards,
jet
He is assisted by people being divisive and knocking each other rather than sticking together to oppose the plans.
 

Mary_Morgan

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2002, 02:46:14 am »
Eric, whoever you are, what are local workers?  BP was built as a dormitory village, it should not have been, but it was, and some of us like it.  Unless any of us have ancestors who worked at Brokemans or Moffats, we are all incomers.   The only real local workers at the moment are the school teachers,  the shop assistants, and people who work from home.   The first two categories would not have been there if there had not been an influx of people from elsewhere.  My parents chose to live in BP something over 50 years ago.  I cannot deny anyone who has moved there since the right to live there, and nor can anyone else.   It, perhaps, might have been called "country" then, but not today.  What is "country" - is there a working farm in BP?
Yes, eroding the green belt does worry me, but the green belt is not the cause of the high house prices.   It is the convenience to London that is, WAGN (who we all love to hate), the A1 and the M25
M
 

Offline eric

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2002, 05:10:06 pm »
Well I'm pleased to see I've triggered SOME debate on this serious issue.  
Mary, I think that local workers are those who live and work in a local radius, and are not London-commuters or those who drive significant distances to work.   A large number of key workers ARE being priced-out because of the simple economic rule "restricted supply + continuing demand = higher prices"  (be it around Brookmans Park or fashionable parts of London).   Teachers, shop workers, police, fire, etc NEED to live locally.
You say that people can't be denied the right to live there, but therefore by definition that it is right to denies others.   You think there are no farms in the area ?  Well I bet that'll depress those remnants that are still here altho struggling to survive against those who want to treat them as a free extension to the gardens and lifestyles.
Sorry everyone but isn't the case that if we want to support the "green belt" then we need to support the whole package, and not just those bits that suit us individually (while ignoring the rest) ?   Also those early aims have been subsumed in to all the other "green" development restraint policies, but we & our children have to live on with all of the costs of this intervention.  Creeping suburbanisation in all forms, a form of ghetto-isation (sorry can't think of another word ...) ?, longer-range commuting with more petrol fumes, pollution, waste, ...
I wish I knew what the answer was, but maybe we have to move as others did, from "preservation" to "conservation" ?



 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2002, 06:23:47 pm »
Wish as a quallified engineer that I could earn as much as a key worker, ie policeman, fireman, teacher and recieve the guarranteed pension rights. I am only the poor s*d that builds the places they work in and makes the equipment they use.
As I have only been here 17 years, should I s*d off back to my mum and dads three room flat in North London and leave it all to the farmers who all thought that they would be sticking their snouts in the EEC trough and ended up being rewarded by being beggared.
Myself and my wife have worked for 60 years between us, paid our taxes in full and got about 1% back, so I reckon we have paid in enough to deserve our third acre of suburbanised countryside.
Do people really think rural people have preserved our countryside. I think not, farmers are more than happy with the "brown" site conversion of agricultural buildings into industrial units. They can't stick their nose in the trough fast enough.
Don't blame the townies for everything that goes wrong.
Oh by the way, not a dig at Eric, just a comment stating what I see around me.
regards,
Jet
 

Mary_Morgan

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2002, 09:16:39 pm »
This one could turn into a slanging match if one is not careful, mea culpa.

I don't know the answers either.   I think it would be a shame for Potters Bar, Little Heath, Brookmans Park, Welham Green and Hatfield to merge into one, and would like to keep the precious few fields there are between them, but people do need places to live.  

No-one should blame townies for everything, but equally townies shouldn't blame country people for everything either.

My point on working farms, is that there is not actually one in the village, they surround it.  Moffats Farm was a working farm when I was child.  

Come to think of it, Jet you go back to your parents flat, and I will go back to my grandparents farm in deeper Hertfordshire or my other grandparents pub in a tiny village in Co Cork.      Not a lot of point,  best we stay put and get on with each other :) :)

Mary
(Country girl by nature if not location :D)
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2002, 12:49:20 am »
Not sure I understand all these posts, but I don't think it has got anything do with where we all came from. I am  a newbie to the area. I fell in love with this area as a child, and slowly moved near to it......and at last got here and am very proud to be here. Its not actually about money, or how much we earn. For me, it was where I wanted to bring my children up. Nice open space, green fields, wild life etc. It was wonderful the other day when we all watched from our lounge window as a pheasant happly strutted around our Garden.  I want to keep these fields and the beautiful area......and I don't much fancy being bundled into all the other areas which seem to have problems of there own.

I agree we need more housing, but then I have to ask, why is it on every available plot there is, they are building more and more warden homes for the elderly, and no new affordable flats for the young? Why because there is a lot of money in retirement flats........
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2002, 01:20:42 am »
Dear Anna,
So thats where my resident pheasant went! I thought my cat got it :)
Dear Mary,
I am a townie from N. London, but I bet I practise and know a bit more about country pursuits and widlife than a lot of so called country folk.
Being a townie is perhaps why I am more appreciative of the wildlife and do not practise the inherent cruelty lauded by some country folk I come across.
Foxes, bats,toads,frogs,newts, woodpeckers etc all live in my garden in reasonable harmony ( when they can avoid the cat who thinks she owns the place) I would imagine a lot of the people who live here do not even know what lives in their gardens. They are too busy trying to cut down trees and lay paving slabs etc.
I would gues that wildlife around here has dropped by half in the last decade alone, birds by 90% excluding magpies!
The only sure way to get to live around here is by plain hard work and sacrifice of certain pleasures perhaps.
Every one priveliged to live here should be gratefull and not try to turn it into London.
well I've had a rant, unusual for me?
regards,
jet
By the way Mary, Latin now, you will be quoting Arabic next, inshallah (peace be upon him) ilhamduallah, not spelt correct but pronounced as read, you know what I mean. jet is imshi'ing off
« Last Edit: May 28, 2002, 01:25:32 am by jet »
 

Offline john

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2002, 12:54:36 pm »
Might I try to offer a slight steer back towards the most pressing part of the strand that started off ?  (ie  the need to look carefully at all the issues of the green belt).

Mary:  the Vet College runs a working farm that keeps  land "open" between Potters Bar, Little Heath and Brookmans Park  -  despite the appallingly low prices for milk, the expensive local vandalism, etc etc -  and which some neighbours enjoy looking over by pulling out hedging ...

Anna:  I'm afraid it IS substantially about money, like so many things.   I think at least recognising that less-than-palatible fact would be a step in the right direction ?   In many parts of the UK where there are restraint policies, "incomers" are generally recognised as pushing prices up beyond "locals" reach ... etc etc   -  and some would add that inflated property prices are being subsidised by those other people who have to carry the correlated costs (eg  by travelling from beyond the green belt, by maintaining the rural aspect, clearing up the rubbish, replacing thestolen hedging plants, ...

Eric:   hhhmmm!   You seem remarkably prescient in talking about "ghettos".  I see Ewan Cameron, chairman of the Countryside Agency has just today published a report which touches on this very point  (see the various national broadsheets, such as Page 7, D Telegraph)

SOME careful flexibility has to be found somehow ?

john
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2002, 02:55:07 pm »
Yes some people do have more money than sense when it comes to city types buying rural properties.
However the rural types who sell them the properties don't seem to mind taking as much cash as possible and running do they?
Pure greed all around, who profits, anyone in the property "game" mortgage lendrs etc. etc.
The RVC site is handy to maintain a bit of green, but watch this space dissapear over time!
regards,
jet
Market forces prevail
 

justin

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2002, 11:57:30 am »
What an interesting debate! I've lived hear for around 7 years and moved hear simply to be in an enviroment where my children would be safer. In 1926 my fathers parents moved from St Johns Wood to Whetsone "to be in the country" for the same reasons. Whetstone is now London N20. Small enclaves of semi rural residential development should be protected from over development in the form of acres of new "toy town" houses that are so prolific now days. With regard to the supply and demand for immigrants etc there is a large covered space in docklands which we all paid for that I'm sure could have been utalised.
 

Offline eric

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2002, 08:38:57 pm »
How delightful to read in "Jubilee Memories", peoples' fond recollections of moving to Brookmans Park fifty years ago.
But weren't these often involving new houses being built in the Green Belt ?
Hhhmm
 

Mary_Morgan

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2002, 10:43:05 pm »
The quick answer to that is no.   Neither the house that I moved into nor the one that Ann did were new when we moved in.

The damaged that was done to the Green Belt was done more than 50 years ago (see the link on my post of 8 May).  Most of the building in the last 50 years has been infilling.

Some people have a problem with that, I don't.

I am going to cut off now.  The last two nights I have typed a considered reply on this post, and the internet connection has gone down and I have lost it.   I may try again tomorrow when it is quiet.

Toodle pip for now folks.

Mary
 

Offline jet

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2002, 06:54:21 pm »
Just a thought regarding the green belt.
If the building work at the RVC was a factory or even a hospital, people would go crazy.
But because its for cuddly and not so cuddly animals then its okay?
Strange enit,
regards,
jet
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2002, 12:51:58 pm »
or maybe most people realise that if you are working with animals, those animals (just for starters) rather naturally need things called fields, fodder, ... that tend not to be found in urbanised areas
Regards  -  john
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2002, 04:21:28 pm »
Hertfordshire says it is looking at ways to increase the county’s stock of affordable housing by 49 thousand homes by 2016 while, at the same time, protecting the countryside. The authority sets out three options.

  • Option A: assumes that 47,000 homes can be built in urban areas leaving 2,000 to be built on so-called ‘greenfield sites’.
  • Option B: relies on district council estimates that only 35,000 homes can be built in towns and that 13,600 would have to be found on greenfield sites.
  • Option C: the county council's preferred option - wait until 2006 to review the situation.

The authority says there will be presentations throughout the county.  To arrange one contact Jon Tiley on 01992 556297. And you can get hold of a summary document by calling 01438 737320. more details
« Last Edit: June 28, 2002, 05:47:32 pm by admin »
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2002, 09:13:14 pm »
This confirms the comments made by Chris Conway, Welwyn Hatfield Chief Planning Officer at the NM District Green Belt Society committee meeting on 24 June.  See www.greenbeltsociety.org.uk for minutes of that meeting.  He recommended a community-wide response, rather than individual responses, to give the  views of the whole community of North Mymms.  I will be following the discussion on this Forum and would be pleased to receive your comments to greenbelt.nm@tesco.net.  
Bob Horrocks, Hon Secretary, NM District Green Belt Soc.

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2002, 09:28:56 pm »
Some things seem to have been around forever, but the Green Belt is a fairly recent legal entity created in part to stop towns etc from merging into one another.  When you travel along the A1000 from Barnet you can clearly see where London stops and the countryside begins.  Check out the new theme on this forum of where to put 49,200 in this county.  There is a huge and complex problem of where to put new businesses and housing in the county.  Naturally we have a NIMBY attitude of wanting to preserve the very things that attracted us to live here - all well discussed in this section.
Please be assured that your local Green Belt Society, and the Parish Council, are vigilant and fighting to preserve what we have got.

Offline jet

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2002, 04:38:41 am »
Da Da,
jet is back for one post this week only.
This is so important so I must post, can we all not unite against building on our green belt land.
In the 17 years that I have been privelleged to live here I guess BP has increased in mass by at least 20%. Trees unlawfully dissapear by at least the same amount. For Calder and Brookmans avenues ( avenue means tree lined road) trees just get cut down, totally illegal, no one cares, just go stump spotting ,10 minutes with chain saw = 50 years wiped out, poor birds its their home!  Shall we say Calder & Brookmans DESERT. Why do people do it?
What harm does a poor old tree do?
By the way we now have fox cubs in our garden, they are nocturnal so cat in at night = no problem.
Saw  a huge owl in moffats last week, it was well over 2FT tall 5ft wingspan, I would swear it was an eagle owl, escaped? What an experience! height judged against chimney brick courses.  How many people have seen one?Thats my lot for this week, make most of it because there is little else of interest, pretentious moi ?
best wishes to all,
jet
P.S. as allways.! John, fields and fodder has little to do with RVC extension. RVC is a business like any other.
bob this is Hertfordshire ( the best county in Gods land QE1 knew this, London it aint!)
I think NOMORA  should ally with GBS and tell Prescott & Co where to stick their houses, 140 on this site why don,t they all speak up! Thats all folks!!

Addendum following Owl Identification. It had the body of the Tawny Owl, but prominent ears. Much bigger than long eared owl. The nearest I have seen is an Eagle Owl at a display, it really could be an escapee?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2002, 02:43:17 pm by jet »
 

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