Garden Waste Collection Charge

[Editor]

How will they check? I am not proposing doing this, but...

What if I bury potato and carrot peelings, broccoli stalks and onion skins under leaves and garden waste in my brown bin. Have the refuse collectors got time to dig deep to check? And what if the spuds, carrots and broccoli were grown in my garden (garden waste) and were uncooked and, therefore, not, technically, food waste?

And will they examine the contents of my black bin to check there is an average amount of food waste in there? Do I dispose of the food waste in plastic or black bin bags and tie them up before dumping in the black bin?

And how will they know which brown bins belong to households that have paid the annual £35 fee? Will they be bar coded?  Will the refuse collectors have scanners to check? What's to stop someone driving around on a Wednesday night and dumping their garden waste in any brown bin?

I am sure there is an expensive council brochure explaining all the above. if anyone has a copy, or a link, please post.

David

[Adrian]

And will they examine the contents of my black bin to check there is an average amount of food waste in there?

I think Cathy already answered this point:

There will not exactly be a contamination problem because of food going in the residual (black bin) waste, as this waste will all go (unsorted) to landfill or incineration.

[Editor]

I think Cathy already answered this point:

Thanks Adrian, but that answer you quoted from Cathy is about a different point. I was asking a question about how they will check we are abiding by the rules; mine was not a question about how the waste is dealt with or the issue of food contamination.

I have yet to see answers to the question of how they will check will are disposing of food waste according to the new rules.

David

[Adrian]

I'm assuming that as the waste is unsorted, nobody is looking.

[LMS]

I have also been wondering about vegetable waste - if I grow my own veg am I allowed to put the outer leaves / stalks etc. in my brown bin? How will anyone tell whether these are home grown on from the local supermarket?

[trekbat]

I have yet to see answers to the question of how they will check will are disposing of food waste according to the new rules.

Possibly they may carry out some random checks - starting with people with gardens and not signed up to the new scheme.

It appears that some are missing the point.




The usual primary purpose of taxation is to raise money for the coffers (taxation is also a useful tool in protecting embryonic / strategic industries and modifying behaviour - by increasing the price to deter actions deemed 'harmful' or undesirable, an example of that being the landfill escalator tax).




In the interests of maximising returns to the public purse, a tax should be easy and inexpensive to collect and difficult to avoid / evade.




The current bins collections - and transport and disposal of collected waste - is not free. This work is done and paid for through council tax and any grant / subsidy from county or central government (who in turn get the money to do that mainly through taxation, licensing  and fines).




Now there are perfectly understandable reasons for increasing council tax - such as, government grant cuts, increases in the minimum wage, and increased demand for services.




I'd argue that the logical and sensible course of action is for WHC to increase Council tax by £35 rather than create a separate 'tax', which will need additional resources to create, administer and enforce.




The argument is reinforced by the high probability of increased fly-tipping, bonfires, greater use of facilities, like Cole Green...generating additional work and costs. Plus, there will be some households which will opt out. All of which reduces the tax take / money available.




Common sense does not have any political affiliation or axe to grind.




Consequently, for WHC to proceed along this path suggests some other motivation - possibly a general policy shift towards pay-as-you-go council services; an intention to further reduce local government (as far as waste services go it would make more economic sense to organise and run on a much larger scale than district or even county level); an intention to create additional payment / income streams for political purposes (previous governments have claimed not to have raised / cut income tax - while increasing NI contributions, imposing VAT, increasing VAT..., and assume the electorate is too stupid to figure out the sleight of hand); to provide sufficient quantities of waste for the Hoddesdon incinerator (if the contract with Veolia is like the New Barnfield one, HCC would be liable for penalties if they didn't provide a guaranteed tonnage of waste annually - a liability that would ultimately be paid for by residents - which would have a political cost); or some other reason.

I think I've finally figured out the logic behind this - apparently councils are capped by central government as to how much they can raise council tax in a year.


So this is possibly part of someone's cunning plan to create additional income streams that can be raised above and beyond any increases to Council tax.


And it also offers multiple opportunities to raise funds through fines - from flytippers and catching people attempting to circumvent the new charge by putting garden waste into their black bins (which would require something like... ooh! Random checks (and / or a Shop-Thy-Neighbour reward scheme). 

[trekbat]

Rubbish fly-tipped outside Welwyn cemetery
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/rubbish_fly_tipped_outside_welwyn_cemetery_1_4878015


Hmm...judging from the 'green' content it looks like someone is practising before the charge is introduced.

[trekbat]

‘Welwyn Hatfield election shake-up could save thousands’
"Welwyn Hatfield council chiefs are wilfully refusing to make a simple change to the election system that could make major financial savings and boost turnout, opposition critics have claimed."
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/welwyn_hatfield_election_shake_up_could_save_thousands_1_4895860


Hmm...there's no confirmation or denial of the opposition claim that there's potentially significant savings to be made.

[trekbat]

Top Welwyn Hatfield councillors under attack for raising their own allowances
"Following recommendations by an independent panel, the borough council will increase the allowances paid to cabinet members and committee chairpersons by between 58 per cent and 68 percent in 2017/18..."
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/top_welwyn_hatfield_councillors_under_attack_for_raising_their_own_allowances_1_4895994


So WHC wastes thousands of pounds by holding piece-meal elections (instead of in one fell swoop - which is good enough to select an administration to run the whole country) and the people responsible get massive pay rises - and then pass the bill on to residents / cut their services.

Possibly there's a parallel universe somewhere where this makes sense.

But I doubt it.

[epiphany]

Latest info from WHBC website:


<a href="http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=12132&amp;p=0" target="_blank">http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=12132&amp;p=0</a>

[Editor]

I signed up to have my garden waste collected yesterday, despite the fact that the terms and conditions link is broken, the payment form demands far more information than any other I have used (they want the Bank postcode and other details which I didn't have, but the form processed without them). So now I have paid for a service without knowing the terms and conditions, and I can't find them anywhere on the site. Does anyone have them, please?

[larrylamb]

I signed up to have my garden waste collected yesterday, despite the fact that the terms and conditions link is broken, the payment form demands far more information than any other I have used (they want the Bank postcode and other details which I didn't have, but the form processed without them). So now I have paid for a service without knowing the terms and conditions, and I can't find them anywhere on the site. Does anyone have them, please?

Probably not worth having the T & C's as the contractor and council will do what they want anyway.

You only have to look at the mission statements from any government dept and compare to what they say they will "endeavour" to do and what actually gets done.

Pay your £35 as I have done and hope for the best!

[Helen]

Have residents received anything in the post about the £35 & how to pay it? The last thing we saw was a leaflet that went out when it was in consultation stage.

[Bob]

Have residents received anything in the post about the £35 & how to pay it? The last thing we saw was a leaflet that went out when it was in consultation stage.

Nothing in Cuffley yet but I'm waiting to see if there is a hanger left on the brown bin after it is emptied tomorrow as I have some recollection of reading something like that would happen

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=12174&p=0  is terms and conditions

[Adrian]

I signed up to have my garden waste collected yesterday,

Where, how? ... I've not been asked to, were you spoken to?

[Editor]

I signed up to have my garden waste collected yesterday,

Where, how? ... I've not been asked to, where you spoken to?

I checked the garden waste service page on the council website and followed the links. The page says the new service comes in on April 1, but that it could take 10 days to process applications, so I figured I would get my payment in quickly.

Payments can take up to ten working days to be processed, so it's important to pay early if you wish to take full advantage of the service.

[trekbat]

Computer glitch as Welwyn Hatfield garden waste fee introduce
(reportedly fixed)
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/computer_glitch_as_welwyn_hatfield_garden_waste_fee_introduced_1_4913082

[Editor]

I received my nice green garden waste stickers in the post this week, along with a letter containing the terms and conditions and a number to ring if there are any questions not covered.

My concern immediate concern having looked at the stickers is what would happen if someone peeled the stickers off, or what if someone stole the bin with my nice new stickers on. What would my position be? 

So I rang the council and a really friendly lady took my call. She told me not to worry and that those who have come up with the scheme have "thought all this through".

So I then asked my what ifs (which aren't covered in the T&C). The nice lady said "We are not doing what ifs at this point. There could be a million what ifs. We can't cover them all. If there is a problem we will deal with it."

So I explained that the stickers didn't have any noticeable mark to say they are linked to my house. "Oh, they will know", I was told.  The lady seemed to think they were barcoded, but I can't see a visible barcode on mine. She also explained that they are difficult to peel off.

I guess it's a matter of fingers crossed, then. Glad those behind this have thought through the millions of what ifs, even if they are unable to explain the answers until the particular what if comes up.

 

[BrookyP]

Doesn't sound like much joined up thinking there from the council. This of course is no surprise.Indeed if there is no independent bar code then what stops someone faking the stickers. Its a bit like when the paper recycle bin gets smashed from poor design and operative handling (mine about 4 times a year) then you can just call up and get a nice new one for "free". Amazing service!! I guess its not a massive problem for them though as its not there money they are spending so hey...nothing to see here.

[peppermint]

If we don't subscribe will the council remove the brown bin (I hope so, one less bin to clutter up my drive).

[trekbat]

I doubt they'll be taking away the old bins - they didn't when they introduced the wheelie bins.

Still, I suppose you could chop up the old one - and put it in the blue recycling bin, of course.

--------------------------------

Made my payment today - bearing in mind that they expect to take 10 days to process the paperwork and send the stickers, etc.

Got through on the telephone number on the third attempt (I try and avoid using the internet to pay for things as much as possible - and that was before the latest batch of Wikileaks).

Held in a queue for several minutes before the call was answered. A man took some details and provide a reference number before I was put back into the system to be connected to the payment line to enter card details. 

So if you're planning on paying then I'd suggest you do it sooner rather than later.

[larrylamb]

Doesn't sound like much joined up thinking there from the council. This of course is no surprise.Indeed if there is no independent bar code then what stops someone faking the stickers. Its a bit like when the paper recycle bin gets smashed from poor design and operative handling (mine about 4 times a year) then you can just call up and get a nice new one for "free". Amazing service!! I guess its not a massive problem for them though as its not there money they are spending so hey...nothing to see here.

My uncles sisters second cousin who's father is the tea lady in county hall has heard that all the additional fly tipping and resultant rubbish will be brushed into the many potholes whereby operatives will be ordered to jump to up and down on the filled holes to ensure compactness.

The council hope to roll this out across Herts by April 1st with the intention of saving money and keeping staff fit.

[epiphany]

Terms & conditions revised:


http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/brown_bins_charge_welwyn_hatfield_council_adjusts_t_cs_following_public_backlash_1_4936801

[Aqila]

I am thinking of getting a wormery for the waste we can no longer put in brown bins. 

Apparently the worms eat vegetables, peelings, fruit, peel, coffee/tea bags, pasta, rice, bread, cereal, cakes, biscuits, crushed egg shell, cardboard, paper, human/pet hair, pet poo, leaves, meat.  They don't take spicey foods, garlic, grass cuttings, bones, eggs, dairy, oils, chicken manure.

The best ones seem to be made of trays with a sump/tap at the bottom.  The worms work their way up the layers through holes.  You add fresh waste to the top, and get compost from the bottom layer, liquid fertiliser from the sump.

Has anyone tried a wormery?

[trekbat]

County council review sparked by Welwyn Hatfield’s brown bins service

"Cllr Thake confirmed that if the rewards system is adjusted, it might mean Welwyn Hatfield Council would receive less money than at present if it produces more residual waste."

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/county_council_review_sparked_by_welwyn_hatfield_s_brown_bins_service_1_4953091

[Editor]

It felt strange putting our empty recycling bin back at the side of the house today knowing that, from now on, banana, orange and potato peel, onion skins and other waste that could be recycled will now go to landfill. It's like going backwards in terms of environmental evolution. Has the person who thought this up ever set out their logic for the change?

[Editor]

From today, this, according to our local council, is classed as landfill and MUST NOT be recycled. AND we get to pay extra for this retrograde and inferior service.      And that's just the waste from one meal for two. 

[epiphany]

Has the person who thought this up ever set out their logic for the change?

WHBC Logic = £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

[Adrian]

From today, this, according to our local council, is classed as landfill

It is environmental lunacy for sure and coincidentally comes into force at the same time as another Conservative environmental abomination, namely the return to a single flat vehicle exercise licence fee, rather than a staggered excise fee according to emissions. (as measured by CO2 output). Consequently the more environmentally friendly cars' tax will rise by around 4 times whilst the most polluting ones will reduce, thereby removing any tax incentive to buy a green car.... The reason for this? the tax incentive has resulted in the proliferation of greener cleaner cars and consequently the annual tax take has reduced.

Whether you are for or against an additional fee for garden waste is open to debate, but I can't see any argument for not allowing the organic waste in your picture to be composted alongside your green waste. Presumably if you had home grown them then it would be.

Why is green waste a special case for opt in/out payment? The local authority must provide many services which I use and many I don't. I don't get a choice on other services, why only this one?

[epiphany]

Another interesting twist: http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/collect_the_bin_or_i_ll_charge_you_resident_warns_welwyn_hatfield_council_1_4953533


I ordered a second brown bin at a grossly inflated price and have recently had a nice shiny new one delivered, rather than a recycled one from one of the many who have decided to opt out.