Author Topic: Hawkshead Road Car Boot Sale Field  (Read 142549 times)

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Offline eric

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2004, 08:15:30 pm »
What's this rumour going round about car boot sales etc about to be run on land off Swaney Bar Lane ?     Anyone else heard it ?
 

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2004, 12:01:11 am »
Yes, apparently every Sunday. I've heard there is a petition going around against it.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2004, 12:13:09 am »
Apparently Car boot sales can be held on up to 28 days a year due to what is called permitted development rights, even though it is Green belt land.

It is being brought to the attention of the planning dept at WH Council and also the police in case of traffic problems etc.

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2004, 08:46:33 pm »
On Thursday 29 July Welwyn Hatfield Council planning committee will be considering the planning application for a Country House on this site, called Friday Grove by the owner.

The meeting starts at 7.30pm in the committee room at Campus West WGC.  Members of the public can attend, and can leave at any time.  They do not have to stay to the end.  

The Council planning officers are recommending that the application is refused, but I have not seen the report yet so I do not know on what grounds they have made this recommendation to refuse.  

I intend to speak when this item comes up, in my capacity as chairman of North Mymms Parish Council and as secretary of the NM Green Belt Soc.  I want to re-inforce why local people object to this proposal.

I would be very pleased to see anyone who wishes to add their support.  If you will make yourself known to me before the meeting starts I will mention how many have come to hear the decision.  You will recognise me by the chain of office round my neck!

There is a slight chance that the Committee may wish to visit the site and decide at the following meeting, but I think it unlikely.

Offline Editor

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2004, 11:57:30 pm »
Bob,

Can we rely on you to post the outcome in this forum when you get home from the meeting next Thursday night please? You will be the best person to explain the result of the application.

Thanks

David
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2004, 01:02:44 pm »
No problem

No point in taking everyone this far without announcing the result!  I will try to post it that evening, or next Friday at the latest.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2004, 08:07:23 pm »
Decision due tonight. Bob Horrocks is attending. He will post the result, hopefully by 9pm.
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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2004, 11:30:24 pm »
Bob Horrocks has just messaged this site to say that the plans for building a country house on the 20-acre field have been rejected by Welwyn Hatfield District Council's planning committee.  The meeting has just ended. Click here for more.
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2004, 05:47:12 pm »
The cheeky beggars.  The applicant's agent spoke at the meeting and inferred that the Green belt Soc was in favour of this Country House.  She quoted me as saying the house was 'interesting'.  I did say that but the full quotation should have been that it was 'interesting but in the Green belt so the Society objected to it'.   :o

I spoke next and corrected this mis-impression.  It makes you wonder how many others of the 15 who supported this application were aware of the full facts, including Green belt location?  She even said that if the Vet College bought the land it would rip out the historic hedges!  

No doubt they will go to appeal, having spent a fortune so far on this project.  I will let you know if they do.

Offline john

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2004, 05:06:55 pm »
Needless to say I've asked Bob H if he could very kindly give me chapter and verse on the ridiculous claim at the planning committee that if we were to take over this land (having originally been outbid by the aspirant developer ...) we'd rip out the hedges.  
Such assumptions/assertions/etc can't be allowed to go unchallenged

regards

john f (rvc)
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2004, 07:25:46 pm »
Planning Policy Statement 7: Sustainable Development in Rural Areas
Issued on 3 August 2004, it replaces PPG7 – Countryside.  It is a lot more friendly towards cutting-edge Country Houses like this one, but it still refers to isolated sites.  

Would you say that Friday Grove is isolated?  Just to remind you, it is the fields to the east of the triangualr junction of Bluebridge Road, Hawkshead Road and Hawkshead Lane.  Within 10 minutes walk of the intended entrance you could be at Brookmans Park shops and railway station and Potters Bar in another direction. and the Vet College in the third direction.  The house would be plainly visible from Brookmans Park.

The land is also immediately next to Raybrook Farm, Bluebridge Road. and opposite the three Reeves Cottages, Hawkshead Lane.

Offline eric

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2004, 11:47:42 am »
I'm wondering, Bob, if your description of apparently congested surroundings to this proposed building site might encourage the applicant to claim that the area isn't that rural, and one more building would be neither here nor there       ?

Shouldn't it be a case of

first, the long agreed local plan is to conserve an area of sheep-grazed open countryside that's part of the important green wedge between BP and BP, and against increasing urbanisation of character hereabouts ?

second, what is the real need for such a house ?  (rather than just  'I've grabbed this bit of land and I'd like to make myself a nice gain by sticking buildings on it
and why it has to be here, rather than say re-using and tidying up some land at Water End, Welham Green, Hatfield or Stevenage ?

On these grounds, this proposal should fail      and not get on to the lesser tests of whether the design is sufficiently in line with the latest trendy architectural fashions
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2004, 01:57:56 pm »
Planning guidance and laws are what applications have to be judged against.  The applicant or his agent sent a 4 or 5 page paper to Welwyn Hatfield to prove that the site was isolated.  Me thinks he does protest too much!

The now-obsolete PPG7  paragraph 3.21 was what this application was principally made under.  It required an isolated location, as does this week's replacement with PPS7.  

Apart from that, it is still in the Green Belt, even though it is a fairly narrow neck between BP and PB as you say.  We need to save this neck.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2004, 12:25:32 pm »
An appeal against the refusal of WHDC over plans for a news country house at Friday Grove (20-acre field), has been submitted. Details below...

APPEAL BY: MR N BEDFORD
LAND AT:    FRIDAY GROVE, NORTH OF HAWKSHEAD ROAD, BROOKMANS PARK, HERTFORDSHIRE
PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT: ERECTION OF A NEW COUNTRY HOUSE
LPA APPEAL REFERENCE: A1206/S6/2003/1701/FP
PLANNING INSPECTORS APPEAL REFERENCE: APP/C1950/A/04/1166060
APPEAL STARTING DATE: 3 NOVEMBER 2004

An appeal has been made to the Secretary of State for the Environment under Section 78 of the Town and Country Planning Act, 1990 in respect of the above development. The appeal is against the refusal of Welwyn Hatfield Council, the Local Planning Authority, the above proposal for the following reasons:

1.   The site is within the Metropolitan Green Belt wherein permission will only be given for erection of new buildings or the use of existing buildings or land for agricultural, other essential purposes appropriate to a rural area or small scale facilities for participatory sport or recreation. The proposal represents sporadic and inappropriate development in open countryside, damaging to the rural character of this area of the Green Belt and could set a precedent for further such developments, that in equity the Local Planning Authority may find difficult to resist, to the further cumulative detriment of the rural character of the area. The proposed development cannot be justified and no exceptional circumstances are apparent in this case. The proposal is contrary to Policy 5 of the Hertfordshire County Structure Plan, Policy GB3 of Welwyn Hatfield District Local Plan Alterations No 1,1998 and Policy RA1 of the Welwyn Hatfield District Local Plan Review, Revised Deposit Version, June 2002.

2.   The Local Planning Authority considers that, having regard to the provisions of paragraph 3.21 of PPG7, the proposal is not isolated and is not clearly of the highest quality nor truly outstanding in terms of its architecture and landscape, and would fail to significantly enhance its setting and wider surroundings. The proposed country house would be harmful to the open character, appearance, and to the visual amenities of this part of Metropolitan Green Belt. This proposal would therefore be contrary to national advice contained in PPG7.

3.   The proposal is sited on an area of archaeological potential. The applicant has failed to carry out the appropriate level of archaeological investigation in the form of an archaeological field evaluation of those areas of the site to be disturbed by any new ground works. Without the submission of results of such an investigation, the Local Planning Authority does not have adequate opportunity to assess the archaeological potential of the proposed development site. This is contrary to Policy R27 of the Welwyn Hatfield District Plan Review Revised Deposit Version, June 2002.


The appeal is to be decided on the basis of a Public Inquiry to be held at the Council Offices, Campus West, Welwyn Garden City on a date yet to be decided. You may wish to attend the Inquiry and may make representation on the day, at the Inspector's discretion, and the Council will inform you of the date of this Inquiry as soon we are notified by the Planning Inspectorate.

Copies of any comments already made following the original application for planning permission (unless they are expressly confidential) will be forwarded to the Inspectorate and to the appellant, and will be taken into account by the Inspector in deciding the appeal.

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Offline Editor

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2005, 01:23:30 pm »
Bob,

Any news on what is going to happen to the 20-acre field?

David
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2005, 03:31:14 pm »
The appeal will be heard at a Public Inquiry sometime this year, held at welwyn hatfield Council , Campus West WGC.  Appeals take up to a year to be heard, but I will post the date etc when I hear anything.

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2005, 11:41:24 am »
The appeal is going to be heard at a public inquiry on 2 November 2005. It will be at Welyn Hatfield Council offioce, Campus West, WGC.  Times not known but likely to start at 10am.

Apparently a new planning application is also going to be submitted.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2005, 02:39:31 pm »
For those interested in keeping their own check on the latest planning applications click here to see the weekly list on the Welwyn Hatfield District Council website.
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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2005, 03:57:33 pm »
An application to erect a new country house on land at Friday Grove (also known as the 20-acre field) has been submitted to Welwyn Hatfield Council. In July last year, Welwyn Hatfield Council turned down a previous planning application for a country house to be built on the land off Hawkshead Road. The public has until Friday 10 June to raise objections. Click here for more details
« Last Edit: May 24, 2005, 04:10:06 pm by Editor »
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2005, 12:04:42 pm »
As a follow-up to the Editor's comments, the NM Green Belt Soc website carries a list of all planning applications in the North Mymms parish, including the planning decision when made, and advised to us.  the link to the home page is below.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2005, 01:14:16 pm »
If anyone has seen the new plans can they please post the details here for the rest of us. Not all of us can afford to take time off every time there is a planning application which may affect us. Something the council doesn't seem to understand.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2005, 05:51:11 pm »
I will receive a copy of the documents for this latest application on about 31 May.  I will check it very carefully and post an item on this Forum thread.  If anyone wishes to contact me I will let them have a draft of my own suggested comments which they might wish to send to Welwyn Hatfield Council.  Although the council appears to set a deadline for comments, it should still take into account any comments received after that date.

Having said that, it is up to each individual to decide whether or not to object or comment on this latest application. 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2005, 07:15:54 pm »
We would like a copy of your suggested comments please Bob. Our feeling is still that this is green belt land, sold 'for agricultural purposes only', and that no-one should be allowed to build there.

Thanks

Mermaid
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2005, 06:30:15 pm »
John Fraser asked for information.  I have now carefully checked the latest planning application for Friday Grove and compared it with the application refused in 2004.  These are my own personal opinions, and not of any organisation to which I belong.

It is now 39 % bigger – 1,652 sq m compared with 1,190 sq m.

It is now fully self-sufficient in power, water and drainage, with no mains services.  The intention is that this house will be monitored by the housing industry to see if and how it achieves its objectives.

It is claimed to meet the current PPS7 (countryside planning policy) criteria in paragraph 11 because the house will be ‘isolated’ by the surrounding 8.5 ha (21 acres) of land.
COMMENT – an appeal was refused in 2004 for a country house on a much larger 32ha estate partly because it was in a ‘particularly vulnerable location close to two built-up areas’.  Approval had been sought under PPG7, the policy guidance before the current PPS7 but was refused due to the harm to the green belt.
Another application was refused in 2004 because there was no justification for locating the development in the green belt as compared with using land outside the green belt.  The design appears to have been similar to the Friday Grove proposal and was an earth-sheltered dwelling with a high degree of self-sufficiency in energy needs and services.

In order to meet Green Belt criteria the very special circumstances are listed as
•   Outstanding quality of design of the house
•   Historic link with Friday Grove Farmhouse
•   Environmentally efficient
•   The new footpath
•   Conservation management plan which will reverse the harm to the land caused by over-grazing etc.
COMMENT – I think these are insignificant compared with the harm to the green belt, and the above appeal cases seem to support my view.

It is claimed that the openness of the green belt will not be reduced because the development will hardly be visible due to the topography and the design.
COMMENT – two appeals were refused in 2004 because, although the development would have little impact when viewed from the surrounding area, it would undermine the openness of the site making it inappropriate development in the green belt.

The design shows 5 cars (2 in a garage and 3 in the open).  I have spoken to the Planning Officer who says the maximum allowed is 3.

If anyone wishes to comment they should write to the planning dept, Welwyn Hatfield Council, Campus East, Welwyn Garden City AL8 6AE, quoting reference number S6/2005/625/FP – Friday Grove.

Offline supersonic

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2005, 12:13:27 am »
The intention is that this house will be monitored by the housing industry to see if and how it achieves its objectives.


Seems to me that you can put almost anything on a planning application, and claiming the house would be self-sufficient, and so have a minimal environment impact, will I'm sure have it's attractions for some members of the planning comittee. My question is what happens if the house doesn't meet it's objectives?  Will the owner be allowed to connect it to the mains sevices after all? Would any additional planning permission be required for them to do this? If so can it be refused, perhaps with a requirement that if they can't make the house work as intended it would have to be demolished, and the site restored to it's pre-build condition?


supersonic
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2005, 10:31:46 am »
Planning permission is not required for connections to mains services.

The question of what happens should it prove not to be self-sufficient is not a planning issue, and permission could not contain any condition about that aspect of the proposed house.  An interesting idea though!  Would this multi-million pound house have to be demolished if it did not live up to the brochure claims? 

An even more intertesting question.  Would the applicant sue the designers and builders in the same way that people sue holiday companies when the holiday does not live up to the brochure?  If he paid by credit card could he get his money back from the card issuer?

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2005, 05:10:44 pm »
North Mymms Parish Council met on Wednesday evening 8 June and decided to object strongly to this planning application.  The grounds for objection were similar to my personal comments above.

The parish council also decided to comment that the pressures to develop green belt land have been increased by the requirements contained in the draft East of England Plan for 478,000 essential dwellings and related developments in the region.  There can be no justification to build just one house on 8.5ha (21 acres) of green belt land, no matter how innovative it might be.

At Village Day 18 June you can visit the NM Green Belt Soc stall and sign a petition against this development if you wish.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2005, 06:40:36 am »
A user of this site flew over the 20-Acre Field yesterday and submitted this image of the area where the proposed development would be (also known as Friday Grove).

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Offline Mallow

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2005, 12:10:44 pm »
Which one is the 20 acre field.  I assume that is the grass triangle at the end of Hawkshead Lane in the top right hand corner.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2005, 11:51:11 am »
It took me a while to work it out. 

This is looking south.  Yes the green triangle is just near the house in the top right corner, you can just see the western corner.  Hawkshead lane meets Hawkshead Road going across the picture, and Bluebridge Road is that hedge comin in from the right.  From this angle, Bluebridge Road/Hawkshead Road doesn't look much of a corner.

So presumably, 20 acre field is the large cake slice right on that corner plus the field to the left with two square sheep (one is blue).
 

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