Poll

Which of the following were the top three reasons in your list? Please use the other option if I have missed your objection and feel free to expand on the point in the thread. I have set the poll for three votes per person.

Building on green belt
7 (21.2%)
Local/national development policy
0 (0%)
Local/national recycling strategy
2 (6.1%)
The local environment/nature
7 (21.2%)
Emissions and air quality
9 (27.3%)
Size and aesthetics
2 (6.1%)
Traffic implications
4 (12.1%)
Blight and effect on house prices
2 (6.1%)
Other (please add details below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: August 28, 2013, 09:38:08 am

Linked Events

  • Environment Agency consultation drop in session on incinerat: March 22, 2012
  • Environment Agency public consultation on incinerator operat: April 18, 2012
  • Incinderator planning meeting - Campus West: July 19, 2012
  • Waste Sites Allocations Public Hearing, County Hall, Hertford: September 03, 2013 - September 05, 2013
  • Incinerator protest Fielder Centre, Hatfield Business Park: September 10, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry, Fielder Centre, Hatfield Bus Park: September 10, 2013 - September 12, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: September 17, 2013 - September 19, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: September 24, 2013 - September 26, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 08, 2013 - October 10, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 15, 2013 - October 17, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 22, 2013 - October 24, 2013
  • Waste Sites Allocations Public Hearing County Hall Hertford: November 05, 2013 - November 06, 2013

Author Topic: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?  (Read 573772 times)

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Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #240 on: October 28, 2011, 04:20:50 pm »
27/10/2011
"Vinci Environment UK has been selected to design and build two major waste treatment facilities, worth £330m, in Hertfordshire and North Yorkshire...In Hertfordshire, Vinci Environment UK has been appointed by Veolia Environmental Services to design and build a future waste treatment centre in Hatfield...Work is due to start on site in late 2013, with entry into service scheduled for spring 2016."

http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/contract-news/vinci-signs-for-330m-waste-incinerators

13 October 2011
Sita Cornwall incinerator move overturned by High Court
"The £117m scheme at St Dennis was refused by the former county council, but the government overturned the decision...Judge Mr Justice Collins said that when Communities Secretary Eric Pickles overturned the county council's decision, he had not properly considered whether the EU Habitats Directive required special assessment to be carried out before permission was granted."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-15292820

Unfortunately, as was the case with Veolia's South Down plant this may not be the final word.

Given that the nation's fortunes (and personal ones) are not likely to recover any time soon, it is likely supermarket groups will look for ways and means to reduce prices - like cutting out unnecessary packaging (like plastic trays for meat or wrapping cucumbers in clingfilm). Also, people are consuming less. In the meantime, in the absence of a national policy or framework,  incinerators are springing up around the country - will there be enough waste for them all to burn (bearing in mind local authorities will be contracted to supply a certain level of waste - or pay a penalty)?

Motorists paying ever increasing amounts due to ever increasing fuel prices may want to pause to reflect that if we, as a nation, weren't using so much oil to make plastics then there would be less demand for oil and prices would fall. Of course, if we keep incinerating plastic waste rather than recycling it we'll need to keep prices high.

Unfortunately, we're living in a time where a person's style seems to count for more than their substance (and that is particularly true of politicians).
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #241 on: November 01, 2011, 09:08:34 am »
Veolia have been asked to give a presentation at the next meeting of the North Mymms Parish Council. This will be held on 16th November at 7pm at the North Mymms Youth and Community Centre.

Like all Parish Council meetings, this will be open to the public to watch, but will follow normal rules which means that members of the public will not be allowed to speak or ask questions. This is a chance to see what Veolia have to say and how they respond to questions put by your local elected representatives.

I can offer absolutely no guarantees and speak for no outside group, but if anyone wants to contact me directly with suggested questions I shall certainly consider them. It would help if these were particular and were backed with facts and authorities where relevant.



 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #242 on: November 02, 2011, 02:38:50 pm »
I understand Hatfield Against Incineration (HAI) would also like to present their case at the meeting and are contacting the Parish Council directly.

Please consider asking the following questions:

1. How long does it take to shut the incinerator down once a warning for one of the monitored toxins is sounded?

2. The standard position from the Environment Agency is that well-run modern incinerators should pose no health problems. How can anyone have faith that Veolia will run the plant 'well' when according the Health & Safety Executive online databases it has racked up 4 prosecutions and 24 enforcement notices (including at least one fatal accident)?


Parish Councillors may also wish to consider a document listed under HCC's Waste Management Cabinet Panel meeting of Thursday, 28 April 2011 (2Mb Word document).
http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/civic_calendar/wastmanpnl/16802740/

On page 45 there is also an interesting quote from the Environment Agency: "Waste incinerator operators have improved their environmental performance greatly in recent years. They used to be the largest producers of harmful substances called Dioxins, but these days, they're among the lowest."

As far as I know, when incinerators were emitting Dioxins (highly toxic - reference the Seveso accident) - as they NOW openly admit - no government agency sounded the alarm.


Incidentally, this week's Welwyn Hatfield Times is headlining an article about the land covenant as a possibly basis for legal action. However, they have previously reported that HCC has the authority to override it, so I wouldn't put too much store into the unearthing of the actual document.

22 April 2011: "Currently the council is attempting to vary the covenant to allow the scheme to proceed."
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/covenant_on_land_at_hatfield_s_new_barnfield_will_not_stop_incinerator_1_873437
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #243 on: November 09, 2011, 03:14:16 pm »
Back to reality and as suspected, last week's WHT cover story turns out to be a complete non-event. Or perhaps it was a smokescreen to cover the abject failure of our elected representatives to snuff out this half-baked idea.

New legal challenge to halt Hatfield incinerator
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/new_legal_challenge_to_halt_hatfield_incinerator_1_1119260

In this week's edition, on the back page,  they have confirmed that HCC is simply going to bulldoze their way through the covenant (as they reported back in April).

There are better things to do with waste than simply burning it (some alternatives are quite inspired - if not necessarily suitable or adaptable to the UK.

Nigeria's plastic bottle house
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14722179
 

Offline Ex Libris

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #244 on: November 11, 2011, 01:50:00 pm »

In this week's edition, on the back page, they have confirmed that HCC is simply going to bulldoze their way through the covenant (as they reported back in April).


The article also reports that initial talks, to change the conditions of the Covenant, between the Homes and Communities Agency and HCC have been "unsuccessful" from HCC's point of view.  Let's hope HCC are going to find that no bulldozer is large enough to move this obstacle to their plans.  But, of course, the cost of this will more than likely be borne by us - the council tax payers of Hertfordshire.     
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #245 on: November 12, 2011, 01:10:36 pm »
This is a case where I would love to be proved wrong.

Whatever the outcome, as you rightly point out, we will have to bear the costs. Time will tell if that's physical as well as fiscal.


Some more facts emerged from the last of the scheduled Veolia Community Engagement Group meetings, held on Wednesday:

1. Over the past 2 years, across the six incinerators operated by Veolia, there have been 4 occasions where there has been leaks of monitored toxins for at least half an hour (Veolia reps say they reported the incidents to the Environment Agency who took no further action).

2. Veolia continues to be highly evasive regarding exactly how much time it would take to shut off any pollutants / toxins coming out of the plant should they detect a problem (although to a certain extent that will depend on how much of their command and control system is functioning on the day). They say it takes around 1.5 hours for a normal shutdown.

3. A Veolia rep also admitted there had been incidents of explosions inside their plants due to items like small gas cylinders entering the rubbish stream (on at least one occasion a motorcycle has entered the waste stream at their SE London plant, which suggests their screening is either non-existent or ineffective).

4. There does not appear to be any consideration given to the possibility of disaster, sabotage or terrorism in their (or HCC's) planning process.

5. Once again, there were no elected representatives of HTC, WHBC or WHBC present at the meeting.

6. Traffic assessments to include the returning and new university people were carried out in the second week of October (residents pointed out that this was after Hatfield House entered its closed period). Additionally, traffic models which will be used as part of Veolia's planning bid did NOT take into account any proposed development that did NOT already have planning permission (which means the long-planned football stadium at Angerland Common would not be included - in fact, it may struggle to get planning permission on account of traffic impacts should the incinerator go ahead). Not sure whether the proposed increase in student accommodation (1,500 to 2,500 places) at Bishops Rise, Veolia Water's former office site on the same road (most likely to be developed as accommodation or offices) are included in the traffic models. I think the redevelopment of the Hilltop (also with Bishop Rise frontage) has passed the planning stage so should be included.

7. Photomontages developed using the blimp show the top of the stack will be visible from Ellenbrook Fields nature park, so students on the upper floors of some of the halls of residence on the de Havilland Campus should have a nice view of it. Intriguingly the shots from Hatfield House were taken outside the Old Palace with the gates shut (so surprise, surprise - it was not visible. Although visitors to the house or the rare breeds farm using the new entrance are likely to be able to see it. As are visitors to the West Garden (views of the front of the house and where the Henry Moore exhibition was held).

Finally, here's the latest developments in the ongoing Fukushima industrial disaster (the one the authorities and company concerned no doubt would have reassured residents that it was perfectly safe and we've got all the systems in place to cover any problems).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15705303

[Oops, sorry - published the wrong link to Fukushima earlier]
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 06:20:04 pm by trekbat »
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #246 on: November 14, 2011, 08:15:35 am »
Amazing that HCC (and some other councils) have opted for incineration in response to the EU threat to fine Britain over its over-reliance on landfill (which led to the increase in landfill tax), when they must have known that we're also facing fines over air quality (although it's also worth asking why - given that this is a direct threat to people's health - they are not doing more WITHOUT the threat of fines).

"The government's failure to meet EU standards on air pollution is "putting the health of UK residents at risk", says the Environmental Audit Committee."

"Bad air quality costs the nation £8.5-20bn per year via poor health, it says, and can cut life expectancy by years."

"Continued failure to meet EU standards could result in swingeing fines..."

"It is often the poorest people in our cities who live near the busiest roads and breath in diesel fumes, dangerous chemicals and bits of tyre every day."

"Recent UK research indicated that tyres and brakes are a significant source of airborne particles, in addition to vehicle exhausts..."

"In 2008, 4,000 people died in London from air pollution and 30,000 died across the whole of the UK."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15693627
 

Offline LMS

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #247 on: November 14, 2011, 09:36:57 am »
Thirty years ago I took the decision to move my young family out of the city as I knew then that the air quality was poor. I have settled here very happily, and now a new generation is about to be born but if this incinerator is allowed, the increase in traffic fumes & related pollution, and the particulate emissions will force us  to rethink, and  the family will have to relocate again. The trouble is property isn't selling - who wants to buy a house where an incinerator might be built?
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #248 on: November 15, 2011, 12:17:58 pm »
Does anyone have evidence of an incinerator being turned down at planning by reason of air quality issues?
 

Offline Aloo

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #249 on: November 16, 2011, 09:51:32 am »
Link to article in WH Times on Planning Hearing which commenced yesterday in Hertford

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/public_hearing_on_hertfordshire_s_waste_policy_1_1126965

Does anyone know how long the enquiry will last?
 

Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #250 on: November 16, 2011, 11:52:59 am »
Does anyone have evidence of an incinerator being turned down at planning by reason of air quality issues?

At the "consultation" meeting in the North Mymms Memorial Hall the other day, the man appointed to "listen" to our concerns about the incinerator said that he had never known an application turned down on the grounds of environmental or health issued.  I've heard from another source that Veolia have never had an incinerator turned down.   :(
 

Offline BrookyP

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #251 on: November 16, 2011, 11:56:42 am »
i posted a page back about an abandoned scheme in wales due to issues...is this of interest to you...bp
 

Offline Ex Libris

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #252 on: November 16, 2011, 01:04:02 pm »
  I've heard from another source that Veolia have never had an incinerator turned down.   :(

Yes it has!  See http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/decisionsplanning/secretarystate/recentsecretary/ruffordcolliery/

A summary of the decision can also be found on http://ukwin.org.uk/2011/05/29/pickles-rejects-sherwood-forest-incinerator/

The campaign group against this incinerator have a very interesting website at http://www.p-a-in.co.uk/

All the information about HCC's Waste Strategy Examination can be found at http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/plan/hccdevplan/wasteplan/wstdevfrmrk/wcsexam/  including details of the sessions to be held from 15 - 25 November
 

Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #253 on: November 16, 2011, 04:34:49 pm »
A piece of good news for a change - thank you, Ex Libris.   And BP I'll look at your reference to the scheme in Wales.
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #254 on: November 17, 2011, 08:04:20 am »
Veolia aren't waiting for the independent examination to finish and have submitted their planning application.

"Hatfield incinerator planning application submitted...The county council will publish details of the application and how to take part in the consultation in the next few weeks."
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/hatfield_incinerator_planning_application_submitted_1_1128334

Get ready to sharpen your nibs to tell them we don't want their money-making wheeze (given concerns over air pollution, 'wheeze' is the operative word) in our borough.

Across the globe the news from Fukushima gets worse:

"Radioactive caesium has been detected above the safety level in rice for the first time in Japan since the nuclear crisis began at the Fukushima plant. The sample came from a Fukushima city farm about 60km from the plant. The government is considering banning shipments from the area it was found."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15769321
 

Offline JLC

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #255 on: November 17, 2011, 12:13:32 pm »
Along with atleast 100 others I attended the Veolia presentation to the North Mymms Parish Council. 

Reading the posts above, one of the issues bothering us all is whether the planning appliction is a "done deal".  With this in mind and given that a contract has been entered into between Veolia and HCC, one of the questions I asked was who bears the risk of a succesful planning application not being achieved.
 
The answer given by Veolia's representative was that the was Veolia's risk.  I was surprised by this response so I had a look at the Full Business case, which is on HCC's website at http://www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/h/hwpp.pdf, where I found the following statement:

"Planning failure is a risk for the Authority (although the compensation non [sic] termination is capped as noted above)."   The reference to compensation on termination is to a paragraph that states (amongst other things) "Compensation for termination for planning failure is capped but remains a risk for the Authority in the event of planning failure."  It would be interesting to know what the cap is.

The Business Case goes on to say "Planning delay where the Contractor has used All Reasonable Endeavours in accordance with Schedule 26 is an Authority retained risk"  and " XX% of costs of any Proceedings above the Appeal Contingency are borne by the Authority in accordance with the standard provisions of WIDP’s Schedule 26 (Planning)"

So my understanding is that planning risk is patently not a risk for Veolia.  It could be construed as a shared risk but the reality is that it is a major risk for the "Authority" or HCC.

Given this, surely the planning approval is inevitable as to unwind a PFI post financial close doesn't come cheap...

James
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #256 on: November 18, 2011, 10:08:38 am »
I hear from HAI and other sources that WHBC has devoted the efforts and resources of its planning department to opposing HCC's proposals at the Independent Examiner's hearings (however, I fear that they have left it far too late).

WHBC have stated their intention to refer the planning application to build the plant to central government. However, Eric Pickles' record is chequered (having overruled one council's decision NOT to build an incinerator).

I believe our best bet is a legal challenge.

It's unlikely that dealing in the commercial business of waste disposal is part of HCC's statutory duty or remit (apart from the disposal of Herts waste). However, that does seem to be what they are attempting to engage in (in partnership with Veolia - which is likely to give VES a commercial advantage when they tender for N. London waste contracts as it'll reduce travelling distances between client and disposal site, and their costs. Hence the overcapacity of the plant when recycling rates are increasing and average consuming decreasing).

Consider the facts:
- there is far more industrial / commercial waste than MSW (municipal solid waste / household waste);
- there is no cross-Hertfordshire rail link to make rail transport a viable option (and indeed Veolia's bid has no provision for transport by rail) or water access (reducing road journeys was a key feature of the HCC's Waste Strategy);
- it also requires as short as possible distance from where the waste originates to where it is disposed.

Then logically a plant for Hertfordshire should be close to the greatest concentration of industry and commerce and a geographically more central location (which suggests a site between WGC and Hertford).

So why did they choose New Barnfield if not for the simple reasons that Hatfield - with its twin-town governance - was a soft target and ideally located to take waste from London?

The facts seem to support this explanation:

- HCC's specification of using a technology with a proven track record undermines their claim to have been 'technology neutral', and gives incineration bids an edge.
- As Ex Libris has pointed out (Reply #181), the Environment Agency objected to Harper Lane on 24/12/2009 during the consultation phase. The Environment Agency is one of the licensing bodies for incinerators, so if they have an objection then it is either crass stupidity or a deliberate attempt to decide the outcome by selecting a non-starter as the other short list finalist.

James mentioned the cost of unpicking a PFI contract (already condemned in parliament as a more expensive form of financing). However, what will the cost to taxpayers be (not to mention physical harm and disruption) if we have a Fukushima-like incident where pollutants are dispersed - due to accident, sabotage or terrorism - across a broad swathed of residential and agricultural areas?
 

Offline Ex Libris

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #257 on: November 18, 2011, 02:11:38 pm »

It would be interesting to know what the cap is.


James – you could submit a Freedom of Information request to HCC to find out.  See http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/work/foi/requests/  However they have the right to deny information if they consider it to be “commercially sensitive”.

A similar presentation to the one given to the North Mymms Parish Council is to be found on http://www.veoliaenvironmentalservices.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Community-Engagement-Group/ under Andrew Milsted's presentation - Community Engagement Group 17/08/11

Some people who attended the presentation asked about what kind of waste would be treated and another queried the times that the facility would be operating.

The following is from http://www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/r/schar.pdf
(this document is part of the Residual Waste Treatment Contract which can be found at http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/waste/future/docs/rwtcontract/)

Contract Waste
11. Contract Waste, is defined in Schedule 1 (Definitions). Without limitation or prejudice to that definition it will comprise of authorised residual MSW which could include: -
a) Household Waste;
b) Household bulky items;
c) Commercial Waste;
d) Industrial Waste;
e) Waste delivered from Household Waste Recycling Centres (“HWRC”);
f) Litter and refuse from the cleansing and maintenance of public highways, public areas, footpaths, footways, public parks, and like areas;
g) Fly-tipped Waste;
h) Animal Carcasses;
i) Road channel detritus from road sweepings and gully emptying vehicles (including non-detritus type wastes) delivered by the Waste Partnership including mechanical brush wastes;
j) Tyres;
k) Separately collected municipal clinical waste;
l) Waste collected from or delivered by registered charities, schools or other approved organisations;
m) Contaminants from the Authority’s mixed dry recyclate processing;
n) Other waste collected by or on behalf of the Authority from time to time;
o) Ad Hoc Waste;

12. Contract Waste may contain small quantities of Hazardous Waste.

Delivery
3.26 The Contractor shall accept Contract Waste delivered by an Authorised Vehicle during the Opening Hours agreed for specified Delivery Points as noted below.
Operating Opening Hours: Monday to Sunday (including Bank Holidays) - 05.00 to 21.00

3.27 The Contractor shall accept Contract Waste from time to time for short periods outside the normal Opening Hours provided always that such requests from the Authority are reasonable and consistent with all Consents to deal with unforeseen delays in the delivery pattern of waste collection vehicles.


 

Offline JLC

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #258 on: November 18, 2011, 03:43:12 pm »

It would be interesting to know what the cap is.


James – you could submit a Freedom of Information request to HCC to find out.  See http://www.hertsdirect.org/your-council/work/foi/requests/  However they have the right to deny information if they consider it to be “commercially sensitive”.

Thanks Ex-Libiris - Since I posted the message above I have found the signed PFI contract with Veolia and have able to track through to the compensation on termination provisons for failed planning.  Sadly the interesting provisons are redacted out which makes me think any FoI request would be blocked on commercially sensitive grounds.

Given the current Government's transparency agenda I am surprised by the level of redaction in the Full Business Case and the Contract.  It makes it virtually impossible for us to understand what is going on behind closed doors within HCC.  In that vein para 26.6.2 of SoPC4 (the standard form for PFI contacts) states...

"The requirements of Open Government suggest that PFI Contracts should be placed in the public domain as far as possible. Only “commercially sensitive” information, information the dissemination of which is contrary to the public interest or information which is personally private should be withheld. In the PFI context the key concern relates generally to “commercially sensitive” information and (for defence related projects particularly) issues of national security."

One has to question whether HCC and Veolia have fully complied with the spirit of Open Government here?

The level of redaction also means that I can't see what the current status of the finance for the plant is.  Does anyone know if the project has actually got to financial close and whether fees have been paid, swaps taken out etc etc?  Clearly these items could significantly increase the breakage costs that the Authority might be exposed to which would further influence its behavious when considering the planning application?

James
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #259 on: November 20, 2011, 09:35:16 pm »
Does anyone have evidence of an incinerator being turned down at planning by reason of air quality issues?

At the "consultation" meeting in the North Mymms Memorial Hall the other day, the man appointed to "listen" to our concerns about the incinerator said that he had never known an application turned down on the grounds of environmental or health issued.  I've heard from another source that Veolia have never had an incinerator turned down.   :(

Yes I was at that meeting that's why I wondered if anyone had any evidence to contradict the "expert"
 

Offline LMS

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #260 on: November 21, 2011, 10:01:48 am »
Have a look at the minutes of the Community Engagement Group meeting held on 26.10.11, particularly point 5.4 : -

http://www.veoliaenvironmentalservices.co.uk/Documents/Publications/Hertfordshire/CEG%20documents/CEG_Minutes_261011%20Final.pdf

There it is stated that only 2 applications have been turned down, one of which has been overturned & Veoilia is challenging the other one.
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #261 on: November 22, 2011, 01:14:50 pm »
Can't say I know the answers to JLC's questions.

However, the slides from an HAI presentation (28/09/11) to Veolia's Community Engagement Group (CEG) provide an alternative solution.

http://www.veoliaenvironmentalservices.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Community-Engagement-Group/


HAI presentation Part 2, Slide 3 mentions that HCC effectively signed a contract for an incinerator with Veolia BEFORE they had finalised their own Waste Strategy, which should be another grounds for a legal challenge (as it supports the case that HCC decided the type of disposal facilitity - an incinerator - and its location, and then proceeded to draw up their Waste Strategy to support it).

HCC, Herts Waste Partnership (basically all the other councils that have rubbish to dispose off but don't won't this thing near them), and Veolia have been saying all along that it's all just one big coincidence [meanwhile, overhead, the all female aerobatic display team, the Red Farrows, do a trotter-over and break hard right before launching into that old crowd pleaser, Devils on Horseback, while streaming red smoke - or it might be unsmoked bacon].

However, HCC's cart before the horse approach is bound to come up at the Independent Examination that is going on. Be interesting to see how this pans out. I'm not sure how it came about. It may be the answer to our prayers or a sneaky way of rubberstamping the clearly questionable conduct of HCC.

Incidentally, according to my latest waste collection dates leaflet, since the 3-bin recycling scheme was launched in WHBC recycling rates have increased to over 50% and the volume of waste sent to landfill has reduced by 38%.

However, Welwyn Hatfield (and Harlow) are apparently the only areas in East of England that do NOT recycle Tetra Paks (liquid cartons).

http://www.tetrapakrecycling.co.uk/locator.asp


Add in at least one pub in Hatfield that says they don't recycle their bottles as WHBC would charge them £600-700 extra for a dedicated bottle bin, and it's 'plane' that if they went the whole hog they could easily reduce the amount of waste we need to landfill / incinerate.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #262 on: November 22, 2011, 03:43:03 pm »
Check this link   http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/plan/planningapps/nbplanapp/

It says
We have now received a planning application (with environmental statement) for an energy from waste facility at New Barnfield, Hatfield. The application was submitted and received on 15 November 2011.

We are currently in the process of validating and registering the application. We estimate that this will take approximately two weeks. Once the application is considered to be valid we will carry out a public consultation process.

Further details of the validation and planning processes as well as public consultation can be found using the menu to the left.

The planning application will be published on the web via our ATRIUM system and we also make the information available via links on this page. The ATRIUM search page link is shown below:
www.hertsdirect.org/ePlanningOPS/searchPageLoad.do

We anticipate that this information will be available to be viewed here from 5 December 2011 and that public consultation will start then and last until the end of January 2012.

We intend to give consulation period of over 6 weeks

Offline LuckyDuck

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #263 on: November 22, 2011, 05:20:31 pm »
Well i found out a few years ago that Hcc team were looking at either hatfield location or in st albans. Seems the st albans lot kicked up enough to have it moved to hatfield. And probs due to the money for the contract.
 

Offline LMS

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #264 on: November 25, 2011, 09:03:10 am »
Hatfield Against Incineration (I think it should be Hatfield/Welham Green/ Colney Heath & Brookmans Park Against Incineration - it will affect us all) will shortly be distributing leaflets to encourage residents to write letters  to object to the planning application. I believe that the Green Belt Society will be doing the same. PLEASE write one letter for each person in the house - petitions only count as one letter - we need as many individual letters as we can get. It was stated at the Parish Council meeting last week that a town in Norfolk had their application for a similar thing overturned because the council received 63,000 letters of complaint. It is very unfortunate that the limited time we have to object to the plans falls over the Christmas period but PLEASE PLEASE get those letters written before they get forgotten in the coming festivities. In coming years we could have more than snow in the air at Christmas if we don't win this battle.
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #265 on: November 26, 2011, 10:53:22 am »
Urgent Anti-Incinerator Campaign Message:

Hertfordshire County Council (HCC) meetings to discuss approval of the Waste Sites Allocation document (which recommends New Barnfield as an incinerator site), and the temporary relocation of Southfield School (to help the planning permission process to build the incinerator):

1. Monday, 28 November 2011 - Cabinet (14:00 / 2 pm in Committee Room B)

2. Tuesday, 29 November 2011 - Full Council (10:30 / 10.30 am)

Both meetings will be held at County Hall, Pegs Lane, Hertford, SG13 8DN
 
PLEASE TRY TO ATTEND EITHER OR BOTH THESE MEETINGS AS WE NEED SOME PEOPLE TO HEAR WHAT OUR COUNCILLORS SAY (key HAI personnel are attending the Independent Examination meetings)

You will not be able to speak, but you can sit in the committee room for Cabinet, or in the public gallery of the Council Chamber for Council, and listen to what the County Councillors say.

You might like to contact your County Councillors before this meeting, to tell them your views on the proposal to build an incinerator at New Barnfield.

Local members of County Council for the Welwyn/Hatfield area are:

Stuart Pile (Hatfield South)
8 Lavender Close, Hatfield, AL10 9FW
Tel: 01707 260125
Email: stuart.pile@hertscc.gov.uk


Bill Storey (Hatfield Rural)
55 Holloways Lane, North Mymms, AL9 7NR
Tel: 01707 694951
Email: bill.storey@hertscc.gov.uk

 
Clare Berry (Hatfield North)
9 Daffodil Close, Hatfield, AL10 9FF
Tel: 01707 259843
Email: clare.berry@hertscc.gov.uk

 
Richard Smith, (Welwyn)
4 Kindersley Close, Welwyn,
Tel:  01438 714323
Email: richard.smith@hertscc.gov.uk

[Clare Berry and Richard Smith are members of the Herts CC Development & Control Committee, which will be judging Veolia’s Planning Application. If they express a view on the issue they may need to stand down from this panel, so tell them your views, but do not press them to express a view]
 
Sara Johnston (Haldens)
58 Dawley, Welwyn Garden City, AL7 1DZ
Tel: 01707 892646
Email: sara.johnston@hertscc.gov.uk
 
Steve Markiewicz (WGC South)
The Holte End, 37 Church Street, Welwyn, AL6 9LS
Tel: 01438 717377
Email: steven.markiewicz@hertscc.gov.uk
[Steve Markiewicz (Con) has supported us on previous occasions]


Malcolm Cowan (Handside & Peartree)
6 Lytton Gardens, Welwyn Garden City, AL8 6EG
Tel: 01707 324723
Email: malcolm.cowan@hertscc.gov.uk
[Malcolm Cowan (Lib/Dem) has supported us on previous occasions]


If you are not sure who your local HCC councillor enter your postcode on the Council website
http://www.hertsdirect.org/actweb/postcode/postcode.cfm
 

Remember: Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council, Hatfield Town Council, local Parish Councils, and local MP Grant Shapps are all say they are opposed to an incinerator being built at New Barnfield.

If HertsCC Cabinet and Council approve this Waste Sites Allocations Document, it will then go out to Public Consultation, from January 2012 for 6 weeks.

Please note: that this Consultation on the Waste Sites Allocations Document is additional to the Planning Application process.

Veolia’s Planning Application to build an incinerator at New Barnfield will be made public on 5 December 2011, and members of the public and organisations will have from this date till 31 January 2012 to lodge their objections.

HAI will be giving advice on making objections to this planning application as soon as we have seen it. The advice will be on their website, and in leaflets delivered to homes.

 
Cathy, Sec, Hatfield against Incineration
www.hatfield-anti-incineration.co.uk
Please look at our website for updates on the campaign
 

Offline Pollyanna

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #266 on: November 26, 2011, 01:24:06 pm »
George Osborne stated unequivocally on 21 September 2010 that he was 'wholly opposed' to the building of a waste incinerator in Northwich, his Tatton constituency. David Cameron, when asked by Fiona Bruce, MP for Congleton about the waste incinerator on 30 March 2011 : ' Does the Prime Minister agree that the concerns of local people over the negative impact that it will have on their town should be afforded paramount importance when the proposal is considered on appeal?' was answered as follows:

The Prime Minister's reply: I agree with my hon. friend that local considerations should be taken into account. That is one reason why we have made the changes to the Infrastructure Planning Commission. It is important that local communities have their say, and she has put the case extremely strongly.

How is it possible then, given the opinions of these high ranking tory MPs (Cameron and Osborne) that a County Council can just do whatever they please with no regard to the people of that county? Is this country a democracy or is it not?
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #267 on: November 27, 2011, 11:37:45 am »
That's because there's a yawning chasm between what are supposed to be OUR representatives say and do.

John Dean, leader of WHBC, professes to be opposed to the incinerator (as do other members of Conservative controlled HTC, WHBC and HCC - in public).

At the special meeting of the WHBC Environment Overview and Scrutiny (EOS) Committee on Monday, 10 October 2011, there were four 10-minute presentations from representatives from HCC, Veolia, HAI and WHEN (Welwyn Hatfield Environment Network) with questions after each presentation. It was noticeable that following a break after the proponents (HAI and Veolia) presentations a number of councillors and council leaders left (including John and Irene Dean) ie. they didn't bother to wait to hear what the opposing arguments were from citizen groups.

Interestingly, John Dean, when asking a question before the break, did say something to the effect that he knew Hatfield would end up getting picked from the start (not entirely surprising as 3 out of the 4 waste site nominated in HCC's Waste Strategy for WHBC were in Hatfield - including New Barnfield and across the road from it).

How odd then that if you look through back issues of Welwyn Hatfield Life there's very little coverage of the issue (the same is true of HTC's publication, while the HCC one had a misleading article by Derrick Ashley who heads up the waste committee).

Ask yourself what have our elected leaders done to raise awareness and mobilise people in the borough to oppose this monstrosity? Lack of awareness about the incinerator is still a factor despite HAI's best efforts (incidentally, it was called that as the group was started in Hatfield).

I think if there had been proactive leadership then Veolia would never have thought to build an incinerator next to a densely populated residential area (although I suspect they were given a nod and a wink - before people at WHBC realised how wide an area would be adversely affected, and how toxic an election issue it would become).

Equally surprising is how poorly informed people on this board seemed to be about the incinerator.

According to local media reports Councillor Dean appears to run the council with an iron fist.

Welwyn Hatfield Council ‘a complete dictatorship’ - Monday, October 10, 2011
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/welwyn_hatfield_council_a_complete_dictatorship_1_1084959

Council leader’s warning to Tory colleagues
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/welwyn_hatfield_council_leader_s_warning_to_tory_colleagues_1_1133497

Interesting how John Dean has replaced one of the sacked councillors with his wife - ensuring party 'loyalty' and boosting the family fortunes at the same time. If wpd's remark in the comments section is correct, she now sits on 8 panels / committees. However, she is more popular than her husband.

"THE leader of Welwyn Hatfield Council proved to be the least popular Tory in his ward – even being beaten by his own wife. John Dean received 1,476 votes – 23 less than his wife Irene, who were both duly re-elected to represent Brookmans Park and Little Heath"
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/video_leader_loses_family_popularity_contest_1_10477

Given the firm grasp he has on the tiller perhaps someone can explain why WHBC did not insist that HCC kick start the Hatfield town centre redevelopment - something that he has claimed was a "top priority" back in December 2008 ( http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/letter_from_council_leader_john_dean_1_20005 ) - and move the Central Resources Library there (they're spending over £2.1m refurbishing the WGC main library alone - cost of the logistics centre for the rest is yet to be made public).

WHBC capital commitment spending also shows a definite disconnect between public claim and actual spending. However, I am straying off topic (but it is relevant to how we ended up with an incinerator looming large over us).

Welwyn Hatfield (and Harlow) are apparently the only areas in East of England that do NOT recycle Tetra Paks (liquid cartons).
http://www.tetrapakrecycling.co.uk/locator.asp

Add in at least one pub in Hatfield that says they don't recycle their bottles as WHBC would charge them £600-700 extra on top of what they already pay for a dedicated bottle bin, and it's plain that we could easily further reduce the amount of waste we need to landfill / incinerate.

Finally, Veolia have corrected their spokesman's statement at the last CEG meeting - over the past two years, across the 6 plants they operate, there have been 6 cases (not 4 as previously stated) of releases of monitored toxins for a period of at least half an hour reported to the Environment Agency.
 

Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #268 on: November 28, 2011, 09:34:04 am »
This afternoon is the meeting of the Herts CC Cabinet, which HAI have asked as many people as possible to attend.  In Committee Room B at the Herts CC offices in Pegs Lane, Hertford, at 2pm.  Possibly boring and frustrating, but it's good to show the strength of the opposition.
 

Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #269 on: November 28, 2011, 04:19:24 pm »
I went to the meeting and, sure enough, the two items went through on the nod.  Well done Stuart Pile, the South Hatfield member, who was the only one who spoke against the decision to move Southfields School to Old Rectory Drive, Hatfield, and the other decision to submit HCC's Waste Site Allocations Development Plan Document to the Secretary of State.  I report this simply as it is, and don't intend to make any political point.
 

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