Author Topic: Brookmans Park Task Force  (Read 13211 times)

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Offline Peter Hastings

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Brookmans Park Task Force
« on: October 25, 2007, 01:10:31 pm »
Someone has sent round a flyer calling for a debate on a Brookmans park Task Force to deal with crime. Not sure how this would work- apparently there is one in Hadley Wood? What do the police think?
 

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2007, 07:24:29 pm »
Hi Peter,

I have split this topic from the crime thread because it probably deserves a separate debate so that it doesn't get lost in the general crime thread.

David
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Offline Ellie

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 08:34:54 pm »
As the mother of teenagers, I would be concerned that this is the group a 'task force' might be aiming to target and my fear would be that they might find such a group of adults intimidating, which is not acceptable.


 

Offline spectator

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 08:42:05 pm »
I think the idea of a task force is excellent.  It's long overdue that this village starts to protect itself from outside undesirable influences.  A lot of people have spent large sums  of money upgrading their properties, and  I feel that there's not a lot of confidence in local policing !!  The bottom line is again  that this is a situation where we as individuals have to pay to get the protection that we require.  We know of many gated communities which we very much admire and can see that this is the way forward for Brookmans Park .
As for parents who feel that their darling children might be hampered or restricted in their movements I can only say that if they have nothing to hide then there cannot be a problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET'S KEEP BROOKMANS PARK SPECIAL!
 

Offline Mark_Eric

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 09:47:29 am »
I think a task force is totally unnecessary. Does anybody in Brookmans Park seriously feel scared to walk the streets? Or feel that there is an unusually high risk of being burgled? I certainly  don't.
And I dislike the whole elitist, separatist idea of gated communities.
The undesirable influences that are starting to spoil the village and, I fear, continue to spoil the village, are the developers who are changing the village for the worst. Also, and linked to this, is the increased traffic in the village, which is making parking around the green more and more difficult.
Despite these things, Brookmans Park is still a great place to live.  :)
 

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2007, 12:34:44 pm »
I think a task force is totally unnecessary. Does anybody in Brookmans Park seriously feel scared to walk the streets? Or feel that there is an unusually high risk of being burgled? I certainly  don't.
And I dislike the whole elitist, separatist idea of gated communities.
The undesirable influences that are starting to spoil the village and, I fear, continue to spoil the village, are the developers who are changing the village for the worst. Also, and linked to this, is the increased traffic in the village, which is making parking around the green more and more difficult.
Despite these things, Brookmans Park is still a great place to live.  :)

I couldn't agree more, Mark.

Somehow the words 'gated' and 'community' don't seem to belong in the same sentence (although that is not what was suggested in the flyer). 

Also, freedom of movement is important. I wouldn't take kindly to a task force security patrol asking me questions as I go about my lawful business. I would find their presence intimidating and totally unwelcome. 

Seems to me it's all about capitalising on the fear of those who like to surround themselves with bling.

The latest crime figures, reported on this site, don't seem to justify what appears to an overreaction.

David
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 01:25:08 pm by David Brewer »
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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 07:35:11 pm »
You couldn't turn BP into a gated community, if that is what is being suggested. Too many public roads and public rights of way pass through the village. And I don't think anyone would be happy with be questioned whilst going about their business.

There may be some merit in people patrolling their neighbourhood, but only if the police are willing to respond quickly to a call.
 

Offline stevea

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2007, 11:12:04 pm »
Such a group would be like a red rag to a bull to some people. I hope they would have a good BUPA fund with top cover dental care in it!!
 

Offline Mr Green

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 09:32:27 am »
These private security firms do not get in the faces of the residents or the criminals. All they do is patrol and when they see something iffy they call the cops having first checked to see if the address concerned is a subscribing member.

I know of one particular company which was based in Enfield whose activities and the equipment they patrolled with generated more police calls and police activity around dealing with them then they ever did concerning local criminality.

If you feel there is a problem and you want to address it, become a Special Constable.
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 09:36:11 am »
I agree with stevea.

Surely the best thing is to continue with things like Neighbourhood Watch and look out for suspicious activity, reporting things to the police when appropriate.

Surely if we all acted as a community and looked out for each other we'd all be much better off - sadly these days it seems many people do not even talk to their neighbours, let alone have any community spirit.

As far as patrols around the village - nothing wrong if people want to act as eyes and ears for the police, however I would be very much against anything over and above passive observation - and certainly wouldn't want to pay for a private security service, after all a chunk of our council tax goes to the police. If there's a problem with the level of cover by the police that's a different matter, certainly not one to be dealt with by paid security guards.
 

Offline PC Jo Wakelen

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 09:38:53 pm »
I agree with stevea.

Surely the best thing is to continue with things like Neighbourhood Watch and look out for suspicious activity, reporting things to the police when appropriate.

Surely if we all acted as a community and looked out for each other we'd all be much better off - sadly these days it seems many people do not even talk to their neighbours, let alone have any community spirit.

As far as patrols around the village - nothing wrong if people want to act as eyes and ears for the police, however I would be very much against anything over and above passive observation - and certainly wouldn't want to pay for a private security service, after all a chunk of our council tax goes to the police. If there's a problem with the level of cover by the police that's a different matter, certainly not one to be dealt with by paid security guards.


Hi folks
This is the first time I have heard about this Task Force and would be interested in seeing the flyer.  I agree with the above statement.  Currently Brookmans Park is serviced by myself and a designated PCSO, there are two other rural officers and two more PCSO's that cover other areas and in the absence of myself cover my area.

I am all for people acting as our eyes and ears, but would not agree with anyone other than the police tackling crime issues.  One of the biggest problems I have at the moment is that crimes and incidents are not being reported to us quickly enough.  I cannot respond effectively to incidents if they are reported the next day.

I would like to take this opportunity to reassure residents that we are around and actively policing Brookmans Park and because we are not seen all the time does not mean we are not there.  Please remember you also have a very active neighbourhood watch and if people wish to join this then please contact me and I will pass on your details to the co-ordinator.

If you see myself or one of my colleagues in Brookmans Park, please do not hesitate to talk to us about your worries or concerns.  Remember we are here to safe guard your village, if we all work together I see no reason for a task force.

Please feel free to contact me on this issue..
Many thanks

Jo
PC Jo Wakelen, the community police officer for Brookmans Park and Little Heath. For all emergencies, please call 999. For non-emergencies, please calll 0845 33 00222. To contact our local office, ring 01707-638112.
 

Offline Grumpy Old Roy

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 07:33:01 am »

 Re: Task Force

 Prior to moving to Brookmans Park in 04 we resided in Hadley Wood where crime was exceptionally high, especially, armed robbery. It reached such proportions that one victim decided enough was enough and called a public meeting.
 Briefly, in conjunction with the police we organised our own 24 hour security, (a private security company) with each resident paying 10 per week. From the moment it commenced, crime dropped dropped immediately by around 80%.

The above is just an example of what a security presence can achieve, not a suggestion. Having had my own security company I can vouch that security does work, whether Brookmans Park needs it is another matter. Hopefully we never will.

Grumpy, but secure, Old Roy

 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2007, 10:03:26 am »
Last time there was a lot of fear of burglaries and there was a public meeting as the start of 2006, there was also consultation on the idea of the Parish Council part funding another PCSO.

Most people did not reply to the questionnaire and of those who did slightly over half were against any futher funding for security so the idea was dropped.

That scheme would have meant an additional payment for each resident of about 6 per annum, rather less than the 10 per week quoted for private security.

Basically when it came to it people were able to put more energy into complaining than to doing something about it. This task force is a complete non-starter.
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2007, 12:47:21 pm »
I would certainly be strongly against paying 10 a week extra for security - that's 520 a year on top of the 1800 or so I already pay in Council Tax. Not only do I not agree with private security in principal, but the extra expense would be a real hardship to many people, even in Brookmans Park.

I can't see how payments could be enforced either, if everybody in a particular road paid except for one house, would a security guard turn a blind idea if that one house was being burgled ?

It might work in small 'gated communities' where there are only a small number of households, but whole roads of 100 or so houses wouldn't be practical.

As Peter Hastings rightly says, if the proposal to fund a PCSO failed when the cost was about 6 pa then I think it highly unlikely such a proposal will work in BP
 

Offline Granny

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 12:27:39 pm »
I am utterly opposed to the proposal in David Noble's flyer, that came through my letter box.  I have lived in Brookmans Park since 1960.  There has always been crime & always will be -  sadly, I can remember 2 murders & in the 70s several muggings as well as numerous burglaries.  But I consider the area to be essentially safe with no substantial increase in crime.  I am an elderly granny & I regually walk to the shops in the dark & take the train to London without fear.  It is the tone of this flyer that has distressed me so much, insidiously engendering fear (e.g. "Cancers that eat away ay the pillars of our lives"!!!).  Yes, living is full of risks. but please no task force or gated community.
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2007, 01:06:21 pm »
Just to emphasise the point Sasquartch the part of the council tax on my last bill which actually went to the Parish Council was 65 for the year. Asking for 10 pweek on top is just not going to work.
 

Offline Mr Green

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2007, 07:49:23 pm »
Prior to moving to Brookmans Park in 04 we resided in Hadley Wood where crime was exceptionally high, especially, armed

Really? Did anyone tell the police ?

From the moment it commenced, crime dropped dropped immediately by around 80%.

No it didn't.

But hey - this is a quality of life issue - and if you felt five times safer, then without doubt it was 10 well spent.

Roy, give me 15 a month and I'll tell you it's dropped 90%.
 

Offline stevea

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2007, 09:42:33 pm »
 Are we talking about the leafy streets of Brookmans Park........or the Bronx!!
 

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2007, 08:47:57 am »
That scheme would have meant an additional payment for each resident of about 6 per annum, rather less than the 10 per week quoted for private security.

Basically when it came to it people were able to put more energy into complaining than to doing something about it. This task force is a complete non-starter.
Some people, myself included, voted against the idea because they don't felt that PCSOs are cheap substitutes for genuine PCs, that paying addition tax for a dedicated officer was the thing edge of a very long wedge and because we already pay enough to the police.

Bad as the idea of a PCSO was, a task force is worse. It would amount to a vigilante group, ignorant of the law and untrained in how to deal with difficult situations. It would inevitably generate confrontation. BP simply isn't that bad. What is needed is for the police to be little more responsive to calls and for more patrols to pass through the village.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 08:49:12 am by John Fraser »
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2007, 10:25:13 am »
The latest NHW Newsletter states that "crime in Brookmans Park and Little Heath has dropped quite dramatically".

It goes on to give the crime figures for July - September 2007 as:

Assault                   1
Vehicle Crime          4
Burglary Dwelling    3
Class 'C' drugs        2

Those figures don't seem bad enough to warrant a 'Task Force' .........
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2007, 05:35:27 pm »
I agree John. I was in favour of paying for a PCSO but I get the impression we are actually getting more police or pcso coverage now anyway and without paying extra. I wonder if the police were putting the squeeze on us a little?

I do think paying for a pcso must be better than paying for private security.
 

Offline ADM

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2007, 12:04:05 pm »
Demanding money with menaces........ first the cops, now some 'Task Force'.

Who says crime's decreasing?
 

Offline stevea

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2007, 05:53:32 am »
After looking at PC Jo Wakelen's crime report, it hardly warrants a stupid taskforce. Anybody who thinks we need one must be suffering from paranoia! - or be related to Howard Hughes!

Keep up the good work PC Wakelen.
 

Offline Grumpy Old Roy

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2007, 01:35:15 pm »

 Re Task Force

 In reply to NightLondon, yes, of course we informed the police. We had endless public meetings the police, local councillors, uncle Tom Cobbly and all,  but to no avail, crime just kept increasing. What the gangs, yes gangs, were doing was ringing 999 in Enfield to divert the police then robbing house's, violently, sometimes at gunpoint. I lived there, I know.

Crime (and continual development) was one of the factors in moving to BP. After being burgled twice we had security gates on our windows, barbed wire on the fence backing onto the woods, panic lights and direct alarms to a security company, etc etc. Yes, that's how we lived.

One resident, after one being attacked outside his house by three robbers, said enough was enough and called a meeting which was the biggest ever in Hadley Wood.  After the security company was employed, crime decreased instantly, and this was monitored. The residents of Hadley Wood, whilst being wealthy, do not part with 10 a week easily.

 I am not suggesting for one moment that BP goes down the route of its own security, just giving an example. As someone that was involved in security professionally, I can assure NightLondon that it is the presence of security and the fear of being apprehended that deters crime more that any other factor.

 Unfortunately, we as a society have moved on from the halcyon days of the 30s 40s and 50s of "evening all" to the 60s of " your nicked sunshine" to drug driven residential crime. Crime is never a problem until one is a victim.

BP is a delightful place to live, how life used to be, and how it should be, so lets take all sensible precautions with out it dominating our lives.

Sorry must stop, my friends Mr IPA and Mr Jack Daniels at the Brookmans are calling, or is it the Woodman, (both) or the Maypole.

Grumpy Old Roy

 

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2008, 06:59:16 pm »
Just seen this on BBC News Online.

Worrying stuff. I hope extra powers are never given to self-styled security forces.

Quote

Civilian policing 'is half-baked'

A scheme which gives "policing" powers to civilians in England and Wales has been described as "half-baked" by the Police Federation.

More than 1,400 people can hand out fines for littering, seize alcohol from underage drinkers and demand names and addresses of those who are anti-social.

Any organisation involved in community safety - NHS trusts, housing associations and private security companies, for instance - can ask for its employees to have the additional powers.

These include the power to issue fines for truancy, rowdiness, graffiti, dog-fouling and riding a bike on a pavement.

They can take cigarettes and alcohol from teenagers, direct traffic and ensure abandoned vehicles are removed.


David

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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 10:51:33 am »
Hitler lives on ! 

If you wish to compare the 1930s Germany with today's Britain (forget the 'Great' that used to go before that name), then go ahead.

Offline AK

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Re: Brookmans Park Task Force
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2008, 11:12:19 pm »
I agree it's half baked, but it's hard to disagree with the ultimate objectives. It's sad that British society has come to a point where the government needs to officially give more people the power to stop such activities as not littering, not letting your dog foul public places, not spraying graffitti and behaving "socially" towards other residents. It's only basic manners and common sense.
 

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