Author Topic: CCVIZD  (Read 9024 times)

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Offline francis

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CCVIZD
« on: August 10, 2007, 03:24:53 pm »
not sure where to post this but as its to do with 'development'  Ill try here

having just done a quick web browse and in the light of whats going on in Surrey right now, who knows anything about the proposed CCVIZD thats about to be built round hear?

CCVIZD ; clinical centre for vetinary investagtion of zoonotic diseases ?

zoonotic diseases = stuff that transfers from animals to humans like bird flu ?

the plans show special containment laboratories with air extract chimnies poking up less than a mile away from BP which is downwind and that its being built beside the stream which goes down to the water station at Waterend ?


 

Offline peppermint

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 10:31:13 pm »
Please can you let us know on what website you found information regarding the proposed development.
 

Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 01:38:09 pm »
Hi !   the Council website has got the applications 426 and 1019 on its site so the parish etc must know it all ?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 12:23:20 pm »
These two applications were to extend the clinical buildings to provide laboratories and offices.  Parish Councillors are not experts on this subject and, as laymen and women, did not find any grounds for comment or objection to these applications. 

From past experience, the RVC takes great care to ensure its new facilities have been very carefully planned to minimise the risk of contamination and the visual impact.  Having been on several conducted tours round the facilities, the degree of thought that went into new facilities was most impressive.  The RVC gets students from all over the world. They would not risk their worldwide reputation by doing anything careless.  Be honest, Francis, the stream is nowhere near.

At South Mimms there are labs doing research on cancer.  Should we be worried about them?  I had cancer a few years ago but cannot blame it on those labs.

Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 03:04:38 pm »
bit surprized to see the pillar of the parish and green belt preservation stand up for development but its good to have your assurance Bob.  Cant be many whove seen the labs, experiments and research
But I think your unfair to say to everyone Im not an honest person.   Ive looked again at plans, googleearth and suchlike.  The stream runs along Hawkshead Road, it takes runoff from roadways, its runs about 15 yards from the CCVd ("nowhere near" ?) then on up to Brick Kiln then the waterworks   Or has it all changed ?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 05:27:25 pm »
The plans are available for all to see on the www.welhat.gov.uk website.  I have just checked them again (2007/0426 which has been approved and 2007/1019 which is still to be decided).  They both clearly show that these phase 1 and 2 labs will be in the heart of the clinical buildings and next to the Mill Reef building. 

These buildings will be in the centre of the RVC Major Development Site as defined in the approved Welwyn Hatfield District Plan.   As such it is not development on Green Belt land.  Also it is on high ground so it will not get flooded, unlike the buildings subject to the current Foot and Mouth investigations - an aspect that was not of concern at the time of checking the plans by the parish council and the Green Belt Soc.

I may be being thick but I cannot understand the worry about 'runoff from the roadway' since the buildings will be neither 15 yards from Hawkshead Lane nor 15 yards from the stream.  I am not doubting the honesty of Francis, merely stating that based on the information at my disposal these labs will be nowhere near the stream.  In fact all the RVC residencies are between the labs and stream.  Forget GoogleEarth etc - walk the lane and see it for real. Ask the man on the gate to point out which is the Mill Reef Building.

The parish councillors did not go into the labs or see experiments or animals being treated, if my memory served me correctly.  Our guide was very conscious of avoiding any possible contamination of the animals or we humans.  The visits were admittedly a public relations exercise by the RVC intended to show in real life just what the draft Master Plan documents for the site would look like 'on the ground'.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 05:29:44 pm by Bob Horrocks »
 

Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2007, 12:39:25 pm »
hello bob    before i go out with a print of www.brookmans.com/environment/peap/walk2.jpg could you tell me wehat that blue line is through the vetinary college?  if its a stream has it disappeared since?    if it hasnt then how close is the new development to the blue line or the Q3 mark?
thanx
 

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2007, 05:15:20 pm »
hello bob    before i go out with a print of www.brookmans.com/environment/peap/walk2.jpg could you tell me wehat that blue line is through the vetinary college?  if its a stream has it disappeared since?    if it hasnt then how close is the new development to the blue line or the Q3 mark?
thanx

Hi Francis,

I have contacted the RVC press office and asked them to read this thread and respond to any points raised. Clearly, that will only be the RVC's take on the development, but it's a start. I was told that there would be a reply by tomorrow.

In the meantime, could you elaborate on your concerns please so that the press office can deal with the points you set out. The more detail and background information the better.

Thanks

David
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 10:22:56 pm »
The Royal Veterinary College (RVC) says its new infectious diseases unit will not be working with the highly-contagious avian flu or foot-and-mouth disease. The statement was in reply to concerns expressed in this thread. Click here for more details. (Note: the article contains the RVC response and a repeat of some of the concerns from this thread.)

David
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Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 05:55:35 pm »
well its good to see the veterinary college filling us in now on the informationj the parish didnt have before ?   thanx alot college, for this info which is generally needed before any deciding if theres a cause for concern or not.
there must be a bit of risk with all this othewrwise thered not be so much effort.  Would be interesting to see more about this animal research on an episode of Supervets ?
(i still think the maps and walking shows theres a stream there  (;-) ;)
 

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2007, 07:42:13 pm »

there must be a bit of risk with all this othewrwise thered not be so much effort. 


Hi Francis,

Clearly, the article running on the site at the moment (click here if anyone has not read it) is only one side of the story. I invited the RVC to respond to the concerns you had expressed in this forum, and they have. However, it is only their side of the story.

Do you feel they have answered all your concerns?  If not, please feel free to expand here and I will invite the RVC to respond again.

Unfortunately, unlike the BBC and Guardian, this site doesn't have the funds to pay investigative reporters, so it's down to local residents to raise concerns and then for me to invite the interested parties to try to answer them.

David
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2007, 08:05:28 pm »
perhaps its a case of whether the parish, green belt soc and others are getting enough information early enough about the more challenging planning applications in the area so they can comment meaningfully?
as to the new VZID this is stuff that can potentially infect humans ?   and the report on Pirbright last week gives food for thought about risk, safety, and the rest of it ?
 

Offline peppermint

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2007, 10:19:24 pm »
It does concern me that approval for development on Green Belt land seems to be a foregone conclusion when it involves existing developments that back onto fields around Brookmans Park, ie. the Three Valleys Water pumping station on Warrengate Road which has been developed considerably over the last ten years and the RVC which has changed beyond all recognition (and continues to do so).

Dont get me wrong.   I have no objection to progress but I do suspect that because most of this land does not back onto residential areas there are not many of us that it directly affects and therefore bit by bit this land is developed.

I have read all the recent comments regarding Peplins Way, Georges Wood Road, Brookmans, etc.   Please dont forget about the green fields surrounding the Village.
 

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2007, 10:22:02 pm »
Francis,

Are you suggesting that animal diseases, zoonotic or otherwise, should not be studied? Or are you suggesting that they should be studied in someone else's back yard?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 11:06:31 am »
In reply to Peppermint, the RVC is designated as a Major Developed Site in the Green Belt.  Its boundary is defined in the Welwyn Hatfield District Plan.  The RVC had to produce a Master Plan for the site which is part of the District Plan, setting out what they expected to develop over the next few years.  This does not prevent them from applying for developments outside the Master Plan of course since nobody can accurately predict all future needs.  The world changes.

The Parish Council and Green Belt Society keep very close eyes on all planning applications but, being lay people, they cannot be expected to be experts on what labs etc involve. 

Interesting what she says about Three Valleys Water.  The only planning applications in the last 12 years on the Welwyn Hatfield website were in 1996 and 2000 for the erection of water treatment plant, and 2001 for a phone mast.  Nice to know that our water company is updating its water treatment plant.

Offline peppermint

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2007, 04:05:33 pm »
The water treated at the Water End treatment plant feeds Barnet and Arkley.   
 

Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 07:00:38 pm »
been trying to look around some of these interests

against research on diseases ?  most people want disease fought but the little bugs seem to be winning.   is the question where best to do the fighting ?
- diseases like foot n' mouth in city labs where an escape wouldn't find many other cows ?
- zoonotic diseases not in city labs where an escape could infect scores of people compared with an unlucky handful in BP ?
looking around the web it seems that after the Pirbright mistakes something went wrong at another government lab at Compton.  In the US they have such facilities tucked away from too much harm.  Plum Island Animal Disease Centre is at the very northeast tip of Long Island

Is it about the right to know what goes on ?  should the information be volunteered from the beginning or does the council - GBSoc have to go about trying to ferret it out just in case ?

As to the vets its hard to find out what exactly's is in the draft plan referred to above and why the place needs to keep growing in the grren belt.  all things to wonder about like Peplins, pillars & gates, poor parking, speeding drivers and the other strands
 

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2007, 07:29:19 pm »

- zoonotic diseases not in city labs where an escape could infect scores of people compared with an unlucky handful in BP ?


So, Francis, you seem to feel there is some risk to humans with this latest development at the RVC and you don't seem too won over by the assurances offered in the RVC statement to this site. (click here if anyone missed it).

What would you recommend local residents do in order to obtain a clearer picture? And is it too late now the buildings seem to be growing by the day?

David
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Offline francis

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Re: CCVIZD
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 12:23:28 pm »
if back in november 2005 someone was interested about the Buncefield site what do you think the owners wouldve said about any risks ?   and how might thatve compared with what folks were saying a few weeks later ?   
everyone deserves good luck (but stuff DOES happen
so if something new is arriving in an area   folk shouldve a reasonable of knowing about it ?
 

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