Brookmans Park Newsletter Community Discussion Forum

General Discussion Boards => Transport => Topic started by: Student_X on April 25, 2002, 05:31:25 pm

Title: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Student_X on April 25, 2002, 05:31:25 pm
Hi all, just to warn you that WAGN are doing a blitz on our line at the moment. >:( the inspectors are on the trains rather than being on stations and there is always more than one of them. Even if the train is an 8 carrage job with 2 lots of 4 carrages the inspectors are in both sets. so  :'(BUY TICKETS :'( for the mean time untill theyve gone away. AJ3rd
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: The Orange Llama on April 25, 2002, 05:48:17 pm
I've always found a good way to avoid being caught by the ticket inspectors is always to buy a ticket... Maybe I'm just old fashioned and out of touch though..... ;D
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 25, 2002, 06:30:12 pm
Its okay to buy a ticket if there is someone who will sell you one :)
I find the inspectors to be most offensive and robotic like in their attitude, give someone a uniform eh :'(
I virtually gave up the railway, because I could see no reason to continue supporting the product of such a complete shower >:(
You may detect that I am not in favour of the system,
it treats all as criminals, with no room for reason or error :(
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: The Orange Llama on April 25, 2002, 06:43:16 pm
Fair point Jet, although with the ticketing machines now at the station which most of the time will take cash/notes or cards, it is usually possible to get the correct ticket, or there is always the permit to travel. Except of course if you are 'lucky' enough to commute from Welham Green, but that's another story...

Being a ticket inspector on a train probably ranks alongside Parking Ticket inspectors in terms of popularity!

However, I'm on the train fairly regularly (it's sometimes quicker to catch the train than run when you're a llama), and to see some of the grief they have to put up with from the public is amazing. At the end of the day, they are only doing their job, and encountering streams of abuse and people constantly trying to dodge paying using every excuse under the sun possible as well. Sure, they'll treat everyone like a criminal - if you haven't got a ticket, chances are fairly high that you are! I've always found that if I reasonable with them (ie, explaining that the ticket machine was broken) they are reasonable back.

Personally, if I've paid for my ticket on a train, I see no reason why people should be allowed to travel for free.

Our local railway is a shambles at the moment. Part of the blame can be laid firmly at WAGN's door for not being able to recruit enough drivers to run all their trains, however the number of speed restrictions still in place by railtrack are in my humble opinion causing more trouble.

All the WAGN ticket inspectors are trying to do is to collect what is legally theirs. I don't have a problem with that!

O Llama.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 25, 2002, 07:36:41 pm
Dear all,
Its no good for me to try to get into london for a meeting and the machine doesn't work :'(
Why can't we just pay on the train without penalty or put the inspectors in the ticket office and call them ticket sellers as in old days, with a barrier to prevent cheating ?
I use the tube because there is at least a human to take my dosh :)
Its a pity because the train  can be fast particularly from Potters Bar, However why should a customer pay to park. It means your £5 ticket is now £6.50 (example)
thats a nice scam.
If I am going to drive to P.B. I may as well go to the underground, it is cheaper and puts you where you want to be.
Vote with feet, or wheels,
I have seen people reduced to tears by the gestapo type inspectors :'(
da*n I have broken my rule of not answering others posts,
please take as a statement and leave at that. :)
How many seats does a Llama take up, what happens to Llama mess, another thing for us to put up with ;D
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Mooniemad on April 25, 2002, 11:34:12 pm
 First thing first, Llama don't look orange to me. The next thing is just pretend your a sleep. When he wakes you, if he does, just knock him out and just say you had a nightmare. Then do a runner.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 25, 2002, 11:58:44 pm
call me an old cynic, but the only reason a company uses anybody is to make money. :'(
soft touch and dare I say entrapment comes to mind :-\
who has never expected owt for nowt :)
and I really think Llamas belong in Llama land not taking up two seats on the train, whens the last time you saw a Llama standing up for a lady :D
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: The Orange Llama on April 26, 2002, 02:29:26 am

Unfortunately, when that first photo was taken, I had been hibernating. Now I've been out in the sun again, I've got a bit more of a tan and my distinctive orange tan has reappeared.

I like the sound of pretending to be a sheep and charging the inspector down. The one flaw in your otherwise excellent plan however is that bearing in mind the train is travelling very fast and anyway all the doors are locked - where the £$%^ would I run to?

By the way Jet - most WAGN trains have a cycle area, which a Llama can fit in quite comfortably in so I am out of everyone's way.

Sincerely yours,

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 26, 2002, 03:00:23 am
Llamas do not hibernate, and in any case are not allowed in the cycle compartment for health and safety reasons, so there,
Have you no consideration for the amount of cycle space you take up, disgracefull :)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: The Orange Llama on April 26, 2002, 01:42:47 pm
Llamas do not hibernate,

Orange ones do.

Sincerely yours,

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 26, 2002, 02:11:09 pm
I have no wish to share a train with any llamas, what ever their colour or sleeping habits. :)
Should Llamas be accompanied as most other animals or are they accomodated in a form of pen to stop them generally milling about and causing havoc. ???
I think there is a need for a ruling from the Dept of Agroculture, no fisheries and unhealthy food to see if there should be a restriction on what seems to me like random movements of four legged herbivours especially with the risk of spreading foot & mouth.  :'(
Should Llamas have to stand in disinfectant?, should they be allowed in the buffet car?
We are getting near to Llama poll time I fear ;)
yours in impish mode,
Free the B.P. Llama Tee shirts should be available :)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Carolyn on April 26, 2002, 04:19:17 pm
This has gone way off thread!

I totally agree with OL. If you use the train buy a ticket. If both machines are broken then all you have to do is state that and I have heard the inspectors phone a central point for confirmation.
I use the train every weekday and have never seen a rude ticket inspector. In fact they are always very friendly, especially to my son, who is too young to need a ticket. Instead they stamp his hand for him which he thinks is great fun.
Because of the push chair we get on the train at Potters Bar. Recently there have been several inspectors and half a dozen police mainly to catch the kids from Islington that get sent to school in PB. I had an interesting conversation with one policeman who said there were a number of adults who, on seeing the inspectors, run over the tracks, climb the fence into the car park and run. What kind of example is that :(

Which reminds me - JET - I am sure WAGN do not own the car park, its not them that charges £3.10 per day but a car park company (possible they own the car park company - don't know)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 26, 2002, 05:02:52 pm
Perhaps their attitudes have moderated :)
Just saying what I have seen.
Who ever owns the car park now, I am sure the land was once owned by BR (and I know they don't exist anymore).
The local authority have stopped "normal parking" but that is another very large subject. They have adopted charges for the only other available car park. They took away the car park behind the Potters. Its a fast erosion of established "rights" which no one really bothered to argue against.
I am sorry but I was brought up in an era of freedom and am sad to see that many (even slightly) younger persons are not aware of what real freedom is about.
Freedom to walk in safety, drive in safety, park where reasonable etc. etc. and of course the responsibility to act in a reasonable manner.
Regarding the democratic adoption of the CPZ the authority leafleted the homes concerned. A small amount were in favour, but because so many people did not bother to object or say no, this was taken that everyone was in agreement so it went ahead, really sad. :(
The result is we have perfectly adequate wide roads with no car parking, it looks as if the place has died.
Apart of course from the main road, which has people driving round and round in circles trying to find somewhere to stop. :'(
Pure money generation from a power mad system. :'(
With no thought to the people.
What a pity, but its gone for good now forever  :'(
As a protest I do not shop in P.B. A certain large supermarket wins, local shops loose.
Just saying what I see, not having a go at anyone ;)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: NMLHS on April 26, 2002, 11:17:29 pm
The last time I went to Moorgate from BP when the ticket machine had been vandalised I tavelled without a ticket and went to the ticket office at Moorgate, said that the machine was broken at BP and bought a retrospective ticket without any problem.  Perhaps it was due to the fact that I needed a daily Travel Pass that convinced the bloke in the office that I was legit but I had no problem.  I must admit that I was a bit worried should I meet an inspector but I had no alternative.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: John_fraser on April 26, 2002, 11:35:30 pm
What winds me up about the inspectors is that we still get trains cancelled due to “no driver” but WAGN can pay for these guys. Maybe I’d be happy to see them if they were all train drivers who drove trains when their colleagues called in sick, but did this when they were surplus to requirements.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Alfred the Great on April 28, 2002, 12:34:22 am
Sorry to go off thread again but I had to add a few more points to Jet's rant against the CPZ in Potters Bar. My wife used to commute from PB and in the early days parked at the bottom of Billy Low's Lane, or failing that in Darkes Lane (remember when you could park on the side of the road all the way up to the Church if you were prepared to walk?).

Hertsmere then thinned the road down and put double yellows on each side. My wife then started to park round the corner in Mount Grace Road. Guess what? Hertsmere put up notices saying that the road was to be included in the CPZ.

So the daily parking moved up the end of The Drive, and guess what? Yup, they double yellowed that right up to the end. So the daily parking moved around the corner (can't remember the name) until (guess what?) more yellow lines appeared.

At last, beaten and footsore, she now parks at BP station, pays £1 more each way for her ticket and gets home much later as she can only catch slow trains from Moorgate (or change at PB, with the same effect).

But the most unbelievable thing is that I telephoned the CPZ department at Hertsmere to ask why all the yellow lines were going down and the answer was that they were intent on stopping on-street parking by commuters. No-one else, just commuters. (And they also said that they had "sought the views of the residents", as if any of them would say "no, I really like people parking outside my home". I wish Welwyn Hatfield would write and ask me if I wanted the Great North Road closed or reduced to a cycle track........)

So, as Jet says, we now have several really wide roads which could take parking each side and still leave more than enough space for traffice to pass, absolutely empty all day. Asking for attention from criminals in my opinion.

And don't forget, these restrictions don't just apply to people coming in from outlying areas but also from the suburbs of PB itself where it is too far to walk to the station or shops. So they are harming their own subjects as well. Have the shopkeepers noticed any fall off in trade?

Wow, what a rant!

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on April 28, 2002, 01:37:31 am
Not so much a rant Alf more a public information service :)
These things happen on the sly, and I thought people should know why :)
A poet and I didn't know it ;)
Seriously mate when its gone its gone.
The Government wants us to leave our cars at home.
The Government does not want us to park near stations.
The government does not know its ar*e from its elbow.
All it wants is our dosh to finance its bl**dy d silly wars.
Jet is not happy >:(
But no one including me complained, it was not my business, but it was :(
Wonder if the cakes got burnt because Alf was on the internet :)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Mooniemad on June 24, 2002, 11:25:30 pm
 Of late alot of my friends from school have been telling me stories of how they were caught on the train without a ticket. The thing was that in every story which ws told by a girl they were let off, but all the boys had to pay a fine. Even worse was that on one occasion the boys were on the same train as the girls and the girls still weren't fined but the boys were.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Editor on June 25, 2002, 09:31:36 am
Of late alot of my friends from school have been telling me stories of how they were caught on the train without a ticket. The thing was that in every story which ws told by a girl they were let off, but all the boys had to pay a fine. Even worse was that on one occasion the boys were on the same train as the girls and the girls still weren't fined but the boys were.

I suppose you could take it up with WAGN, Mooniemad, but I don't think you will get much sympathy. However, WAGN does monitor this site and I am sure they will encourage the ticket inspectors to be more even-handed in future. Of course if all bought valid tickets, the issue wouldn't arise.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: MC on June 25, 2002, 02:37:28 pm
You guys should just buy a ticket. I know it's expensive and it annoys me too. On the other hand the price of tickets has a relationship to the number of people buying them (in principle).

Certainly the costs for WAGN go up (or rather the revenue goes down) if not everybody buys a ticket. There is only one way they can cover these costs (or reduced revenue if you like) and that is by putting ticket prices up.

This means that people who do buy a ticket are effectively subsidising those that don't.

So tell me - why should I pay for you to take the train?

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Mooniemad on June 25, 2002, 05:48:00 pm
 Just to clear this up. I do buy tickets because it's better than paying a ten pound fine.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Oly on June 30, 2002, 05:33:40 pm
The ticket inspectors have stopped for the moment because when i use to take the train to WGC or potters bar i was never stopped by a ticket inspector. Im not sure if they have started again but i dont know because i have a broken leg and cannot get the train until it has healed.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: MC on July 01, 2002, 12:14:02 pm
Mooniemad - that's good to hear.

Just to clear up my side of it... my comment wasn't directed at you specifically? When I said "why should I pay for you to take the train" it was meant to be a general question

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Aloo on July 11, 2002, 08:47:05 pm
I'd like some advice about how to appeal against the IPFAS (Indpendent penalty fare appeals service)

On the 25th of June I had to catch the 06.08 from Brookmans Park.  The ticket machine would not accept credit cards/switch cards, the ticket office was closed and the permit to travel machine would not accept £5 notes.   So I had to board the train without a ticket - or wait for the ticket office to open at 06.30 and be late for my meeting in London.   I decided to board the train and break journey at Finsbury Park to buy my ticket.    

I was travelling to Victoria but disembarked at Finsbury Park to buy my ticket.    The ticket inspector at Finsbury Park insisted I pay a penalty fare of £10.  

The IPFAS says that I should have bought a ticket.  My argument is that I could not buy a ticket at BP and tried to buy a ticket at nearest practical opprtunity?  

Has anyone else had this experience?   Do you have any advice on how I can take this further?

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: James Bentall on July 11, 2002, 09:15:34 pm
I have had this situation many times, as the machine at Welham Green is usually broken, the ticket office is usually closed and the permit to travel machine doesn't exist! Normally when confronted by ticket inspectors I state the facts and they are quite happy to sell me a ticket on the train. One tried to penalty fare me once, but I stood my ground and he backed down eventually. IMHO, it is WAGN's responsiblilty to ensure that I can buy a ticket, and if I've taken 'reasonable' steps to do that, but can't buy one - tough!

As to taking things further, you could contact the local rail users group (see for contact details), or try contacting one of the passenger groups shown inside every timetable.

The ticket machine would not accept credit cards/switch cards, the ticket office was closed and the permit to travel machine would not accept £5 notes.

The only thing about the above that does seem odd - did you try putting your five pound note into the ticket machine? If not, then I'm afraid you haven't got a leg to stand on :-(


Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Oly on July 12, 2002, 12:53:11 am
I would just like to point out that on several ocassions I have seen people putting notes into the machine and then get stuck behing the perspex plastic peice. It has also happened to me because I only had a £5 note and had no coins so I put it into the machine and it got stuck.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: chazz on July 14, 2002, 07:58:58 pm
My sorces have informed me that WAGN have hired new ticket inspectors for this line.

There will be plenty at Hatfield and now full time at WGC.

Also they are trying to get someone full time at Potters Bar specifically for the children who go tgo localschools.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: James Bentall on July 15, 2002, 12:10:43 am
Indeed. Friday evening at about 3:30pm there were 8 ticket inspectors and 2 policemen at Potters Bar!

But as I and many other people have said - good luck to them - don't see why I should subsidise other people's travel....

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: jet on July 15, 2002, 12:34:20 am
Would it not be better to have these inspectors selling tickets at stations so that people could at least buy a ticket rather than end up getting entrapped, or is that too easy. They could also supervise the station and car parks, used to be called station masters?
They could also check on orange quadrupeds travelling without keepers ;)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Mary_Morgan on July 17, 2002, 12:04:26 am
The answer isn't simple.  Yes, everyone should buy a valid ticket.   But quite often there is nowhere to buy a valid ticket - no-one in the ticket office and the machines not working.   I do not have faith in the inspectors knowing how to weed the genuine from the dishonest, having had and heard of too many instances of when they don't.  

What on earth is the reason for putting inspectors at Potters Bar for to catch the children.  I would have thought most of the kids who use  Potters Bar Station have season tickets if they are using the trains every day to get to school: ok they may have lost them occasionally, but they (or the education authority) have paid for the tickets.

Most people are honest, and I am sure that these teams of inspectors would be far better employed manning the ticket offices for more than a few hours each morning, as is the case with BP and WG, and selling tickets to honest travellers.  

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: John_fraser on July 17, 2002, 11:12:54 pm
Travel without a ticket is unquestionably wrong theft and WGAN has a right to protect itself against theft. But it is very easy for WAGN to claim the moral high ground when it is actually as guilty as the thieves it tries to catch. In many ways more guilty.

Start Rant

I pay twice for my travel: Once on my season ticket and once as a tax payer through subsidies. For this double payment WAGN fails to meet the minimum service levels required. Remember these service levels deliberately structured to ensure they can easily be met. Remember a train is not late until its final station and timetables have been padded to ensure this should be a doddle. Other dodges should help them hit the targets, but they can’t.

True things are better than they were a year ago. But they were truly appalling last year, which does not mean they are good this year. WAGN have spent twelve months to go from crises to poor. Progress, but  not one to boast of, which they do on their web site.

My time is valuable. If I costed the time I spend on stations waiting for delayed and cancelled trains at the market rate WAGN would have to pay me to travel. It would be far to strong to accuse WAGN of theft, but the revenue WAGN lose via fair dodgers is not as high as the cost of their poor service to its passengers. WAGN should put its own house in order before swamping the line with inspectors. As JET says, they would be better employed selling tickets at the stations.

I do not support anyone stealing from WAGN just to get a free ride, but I would fully support days of protest where passengers refused to pay for or show tickets.

End Rant

Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Alfred the Great on July 17, 2002, 11:58:43 pm
Well said, that man. I agree fully. Feel free to have a rant, it's interesting for the rest of us to read and makes you feel a lot better.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Gestapo on August 23, 2002, 01:44:16 am
Dear all

I cannot understand why anyone  has a problem with the ticket inspectors.  

They are after all only doing their job and with more of them on our line now more and more people must be aware of this and this can only result in them buying more tickets. and in the long run this should benefit us all and maybe the service could improve with the extra money WAGN make or possibly the prices come down.

After speaking to them they explained that for the last five plus years no inspectors worked our line WGC - MOORGATE and therefore a lot of money had been lost. So WAGN decided to do something about this hence the depot at WGC.

They also exlpained that there is a lot of drivers being trained at the moment but this takes 9months to complete.

Anyway i've read your comments and wished to add mine.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: sasquartch on August 23, 2002, 06:09:42 pm
I took the train to London on Tuesday morning and returned around lunchtime, on BOTH journeys my ticket was inspected.
It was the first time I'd travelled to London for some time and generally I think the service IS improving, albeit slowly. If things are to improve then clearly WAGN need to maximise its revenue - so it's in everyones interests to have ticket inspectors.
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Andy_Kelly on August 26, 2002, 12:39:40 pm
Dear all

I cannot understand why anyone  has a problem with the ticket inspectors.  

Severe Rant Mode On

The problem goes back to the 12 months following Hatfield. The service provided by WAGN was atrocious. Commuting into London was incredibly stressful 75% of the time. WAGN's communication of information to passengers was usually non-existent resulting in thousands of incredibly irate customers.

WAGN then decided that the best thing to finish off their severely vexed customers' week was to have a gang of ticket inspectors wait for them at their home station on a Friday evening. It was as if they were taking our money under false pretences (i.e. allegedly supplying a train service) and then accuse us of stealing from them.

That was the thing that really p***ed me off. BIG TIME.

The ticket inspectors, generally, are the only WAGN representatives that you get to talk to. When you protest at the appaling service you are met with ignorance and "it's nothing to do with me". Unfortunately they are representing their faceless employers and they are the ones that have had to face our ire.

Severe Rant Mode Off

Anyway, I'm putting it all behind me now. Although the service has returned to near normal (with the occasional glitch), I've got myself a new job where I can drive to work. My company relocated to Docklands last Christmas which resulted in a minimum journey time of 90 mins each way (2 hours each way for the week or so after Potters Bar). At the end of September it will be 30 mins each way.

Bye bye WAGN and good riddance  :)
Title: Re: Ticket Inspectors
Post by: Zorro on August 27, 2002, 02:16:47 am
Buenos Dias Muchachos,
Santa maria eet ees cheely today no! Eef I stay mucho longer I will have to rent a hacienda as eet is very cold camping out.Looking for 20/30 rooms for servants and secret rear entrance, is so so tireeng having to uncork my own wine, must send for Sebastion and Antonio. Hola reason I write is theese railway theeng, gave it a go and noway jose wood eet take my gold pieces. Cannot understand logic why you no have theese enspectors selling teeckets. In California we use horseless carriage as it is cheep, cleen, comfortable and safe from banditos. In Espana we use a Gravy train weech you pay for he he he, I digress. Why you no get el transporto supreemo to drop yours truly a few milion pessetas and I see what I can doo, I ave mucho contacto in governmeent.Anyway have a nice treep in to town commuteers tommorrow, earn much gold to keep  me and tornado in coomfort.
Buenos Notches,
up up tornado away