Brookmans Park Newsletter Community Discussion Forum

General Discussion Boards => Transport => Topic started by: aqueous transmission on September 04, 2002, 10:01:47 pm

Title: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: aqueous transmission on September 04, 2002, 10:01:47 pm
It came to my attention last thursday (29th) morning (11am) that whilst being driven through the village by my dad...that there was a severe lack of parking. My dad wished to park up and quickly nip into Meyer's to buy a copy of the Daily Mail...alas there was nowhere to park. every space was filled with a vehicle of some sort. Ironically, the one space that looked empty then revealed a previously hidden motot scooter!

So we had to return home where my dad then took a walk down to the village which is no problem at all.

It just got me thinking about other places that could be converted into parking in the village. Possibly the streach of pavement spanning from the petshop to the dry cleaners. Could this possibly be turned into the style of parking places seen outside Alldays. as i remember this used to be a layby-style affair a few years ago before they re-modeled it.

what do all you motorists think? seeing as currently i am only a provisional motorist, and therefore an onlooker in this situation.

just an idea,
                   aqueous, future driver and user of the village
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on September 05, 2002, 12:15:45 am
Haven't you answered your own question?

Quote
So we had to return home where my dad then took a walk down to the village which is no problem at all.


If everyone else did that, we wouldn't be needing all the parking spaces anyway :)

Quote
Possibly the streach of pavement spanning from the petshop to the dry cleaners.


People do park on this section of pavement anyway - there's a lowered bit of the kerb off the layby outside Kurma which you can get onto it by.

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mallow on September 05, 2002, 03:46:26 pm
Yes I agree with James, but if walking in the first place in not an option, how about using the car park - or am I just being silly?  There is room for about 100 cars and it is no more than 100 yds from the village shops.

Just a thought! :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on September 05, 2002, 03:53:52 pm
What car park and where?

Birch
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mallow on September 05, 2002, 04:16:56 pm
The car park is near the station - sometimes known as the station car park.  It is in fact council land and not Railtrack, hence why it is free to park there.  There is an ongoing debate, I am told, between Railtrack and the council as to who should provide CCTV.  Railtrack say no because it is nothing to do with them. The council say it not a station car park.  Hear say - not my words.

Regards,

M
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on September 05, 2002, 04:36:42 pm
Aqueous

Surely your father has hazard warning lights? By switching these on you can park wherever you like ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Margaret on September 06, 2002, 12:42:37 pm
I was down the village the other day to do some shopping before work and all the parking places were full and I thought great, people are using the shops, but having been in most of the shops and looked in the others, I only saw three other customers, so who is parking in the village? ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on September 06, 2002, 01:06:18 pm
Are space aliens abducting drivers in the village :o
How do the cars dissapear later ???
Is this a Livingstone plot :o
regards,
jet
Or horror of horrors are shop workers using cars?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tony_Collis on September 06, 2002, 02:36:02 pm
Not wishing to start a war, but I have noticed that some of the shopkeepers and their staff park outside their own shops in the few available spaces. Fine you might say, but when it stops a genuine shopper from parking and therefore purchasing goods from the village shops, I find this situation somewhat strange.  ???

I often hear comments that we should "Support our Local Shops”, which I fully agree with. But, when I choose to use my car to visit the local shops and I can’t park because the shop keepers and their staff have taken all the best parking and then they expect us to walk, carrying our purchases, in my case just over half a mile, (I know, it’s not very far, but it’s the principle) I find it ridiculous.  :o

If I’m not mistaken, is there not a, ”One Hour Parking” restriction around the village green, which I presume was originally implemented to stop people parking all day and thus allowing shoppers and visitors easy access to the local shops.  ???

I seem to recall that one of the key selling points when the out of town super stores opened, was the availability of ample and convenient free parking, along with a greater range of products all under one roof. No cues, no carrying the items purchased in the previous shops and a shopping trolley to carry all your purchases back to your conveniently parked car.  

Just my own personal observation…………………….. ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on December 16, 2002, 07:43:21 pm
 Can someone please explain where the new influx of cars are going to park once the vetinary clinic opens?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mallow on December 17, 2002, 02:59:11 pm
And... where are all those nervous dogs going to relieve themselves before their visit to the vet.  JET's front lawn is much too far away.

M ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on December 17, 2002, 06:30:13 pm
Whats it got to do with me ???
It seems I get involved even if I don't want to 8)
How do you know that I have a front lawn? Oh of course its the only one that has not been blocked over!
My cat reckons dogs are stupid and that there are plenty of huge 4WD wheels to as you politely say relieve themselves against.
Mind you if so many trees had not been cut down they would have plenty of places to go >:(
How can a Vets fit into such a small building? where will all the punters park their 4WDs and RRs :)
regards,
jet
There you go 5 digs in one post and none of it my business ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 06, 2003, 12:30:29 am
I am very annoyed that the local council, at the behest of a “rail company”, should consider adding charges to the car park. It seems to be common sense that Rail Companies should encourage people to travel by car. But car parks, who’s charges where not given even the slightest protection during privatisation, are seen by the rail companies as a easy way to hike the travel. Potters Bar’s car park’s prices more than triple in the last eight years. This just encourages people to drive.

So why has a rail company raised the issue? Do they feel that they are losing money by people driving to BP instead of PB? If so, the council should tell them to take a hike. The car park is not maintained, so it costs nothing to them. It is one of the few benefits the BP receives from the council and if people do drive here because its free, then it is probably brining some custom into the village shops and pub.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on January 06, 2003, 03:06:02 pm
If they do introduce charges for the car park it will make life a misery for the residents of Westlands, Oaklands & other roads near the station. It will become virtually impossible to park in any of these roads during the working day.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Strad on January 07, 2003, 03:05:47 pm
Dig up the Green. Then you will have more parking spaces and less grass to cut.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TrueLies on January 13, 2003, 12:35:59 am
Hi.
Maybe I should've found this thread earlier  ;). As suspected, a parade of community shops with no interests other than their own. You'll be telling me the Council rarely enforce the restrictions next.

Jimmy, who's waging Jet's and John's blood pressure have just ticked up a bit.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 23, 2003, 08:01:39 pm
It's official.  Motorists are going to have to pay to park at Brookmans Park station.  more details (http://www.brookmans.com/news/january03/parkingcharges2.shtml)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on January 23, 2003, 08:20:02 pm
and of course the commuters will just pay up, whatever they ask ;)
Walk to the station and let their ticket machines rot >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Only lucky I suppose that it has not been sold off to a developer, now theres an idea :o :o :o
and everyone thought Zorro was a bandit, legalised railway robbery.
A rant to at least equall anything that certain other forum members can do ;) ;) ;)
regards,
jet
See BP is not never never land, it just takes time for the world to catch up  ;D
and as for the chap above, what a poser, pity he has not got an aeroplane to lean against :P
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 23, 2003, 10:31:08 pm
I didn't think WAGN owned that land, so how comes it can charge?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 23, 2003, 10:33:15 pm
Good point John, perhaps another operation will manage the space.  I have change the text because it was misleading.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 24, 2003, 03:29:07 pm
The cheapest peak-time ticket for parking at Brookmans Park Station is to be a day-ticket, expected to cost in the region of £3.20. More details ... (http://www.brookmans.com/news/january03/parkingcharges3.shtml)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 24, 2003, 03:41:35 pm
I think it's completely wrong to impose charges for this sort of thing. Surely anything to encourage park and ride travel is good. This only encourages yet more cars onto the road.
I'm not affected directly as I live near to the station but have a suspicion that there are going to be a lot more cars parked along my road as a result.

It will be interesting to see how full the car park is when the charge comes in.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on January 24, 2003, 04:35:57 pm
I would love to think that with this £3.20 charge (on, I think I am correct in saying, land given to the community for use by the community  - sorry for stealing your strapline Dave) there will be resufacing, no stolen cars left to rot, and cctv cameras for added security.  However I imagine they will just charge for the sake of it and make no improvements whatsoever.

I really hope to be proved wrong, however I shall take Jet's advice and no longer drive the 120 yards from my house to the satation in protest.   ;)

Aidan
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Carolyn on January 24, 2003, 04:52:21 pm
All the prices quoted in the main article are the current prices at Potters Bar.  But (if there are any spaces) there is an after 10am charge of £1.00.  That is also the weekend rate.

If they charge the same for Brookmans Park more people wll drive to Potters Bar (same car park charge but cheaper ticket and more trains to choose from).

I'll watch with interest to see the final charges.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 24, 2003, 05:11:42 pm
Carolyn,
Thanks for that.  I have just checked with WAGN and they say that Brookmans Park would be treated no differently from other stations and that an off-peak (after 10am)  charge would apply, probably around the £1 mark - although this has not been confirmed.  I have updated the news item with that information.  Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on January 24, 2003, 05:29:06 pm
I agree sasquaritch, it beggars belief, but at least Aiden will now be taking more excersise than bending his elbow :)
The only answer is not to park there. I have personally never shoped in PB or used the main line since charges were introduced, yet the road is crammed with parked cars all paying their bit, why? all it take is a bit of direct action, do'nt use the place and the charges will go!!!
As an old timer I can remember when the fare was £3.20 and you got enough change for the pictures and a fish supper, now those were the days, did I ever tell you when.... drone......ramble........ :) :) :)
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on January 24, 2003, 06:12:19 pm
Golden opportunity here for Brookmans Park hotel to allow free (or heavily subsidised) parking in their car park now then!  ;D

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 24, 2003, 06:54:32 pm
Can I ask everyone to spend 10 minutes this weekend writting a protest letter to their councilers and protest at the removal of this facility.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/council/councillors.ihtml?search=Brookmans%20Park%20and%20Little%20Heath&step=4&type=Ward

stephen.boulton@welhat.gov.uk
john.dean@welhat.gov.uk
bill.storey@welhat.gov.uk

I imagine, that to force commuters to park there, they will paint more yellow lines around the village.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 24, 2003, 11:02:30 pm
You're quite right John, as I said to the missus last night, she can now park in Westland Drive or something and at least get some exercise, but then she reminded me of what happened in Potters Bar (just one big CPZ now). So what about a decent bike shed where they don't get vandalised or stolen.

Don't WAGN want any passengers (sorry, customers)?

ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Govvy on January 25, 2003, 03:32:16 pm
In theory,

if every person that worked in the village started parking in the carpark allowing all the normal parking spaces for customers. There really shouldn't be a problem for village parking.

If wagn say the carpark isn't there problem, does that make it right for everyone to be anoyed?

If the carpark is pay and display, the money must come back into the carpark so that it is of a certain standard that meets regulations for a pay and display carpark.

I really don't see a problem with it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 25, 2003, 10:22:08 pm
6 years ago it cost £1 to park at Potters Bar. Today it costs £3.20. An inflation rate of of over 21% per year- about 10 times higher than actual inflation figure over the last 6 years. Do you think the car park there is that much better kept now then it was 6 years ago? or do you think that, because the goverement did not put restrictions of car park charges, they are being used as a cash cow?

I don't ever use the car park, but I object to the charges as it will encourage people to drive by putting up the cost of train travel.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TrueLies on January 26, 2003, 03:38:20 am
Hi John.
WAGN's counter-arguement (is it they who own the land?) will be not to look at the percentage rise over the past 6 years, but the past 10, 15 or however far back it takes to make this past 6 years seem like a fair correction. Basically they are just jumping on the bandwagon to punish/ profit from the motorist.

I suspect motorists will now find a nearby street to park on where there are no charges. Sure residents will complain (if we're talking about dense populated areas) and the Council could take the approach of yellow-lining streets/ parking bays/ permit parking (which of course will cost the resident). That will move the problem somewhere else and the cycle repeats.

Good luck fighting this (you may or may not know that a single letter of complaint holds the same weight as a 5,000 signature petition). Surely the current lack of a Residents Association isn't helping here.

As an aside (and nothing to do with BP again), there are many big towns/ cities awaiting the results of the Congestion Charging scheme about to start and not solely for Mayor Livingstone's careers sake. Also, one of Livingstone's long term ideas is to convert Red Routes into 'Bus-only' routes at peak times - not a lot of people know that.

Anyway, how's the village free-parking situation?.
TL

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 26, 2003, 11:34:21 am
Quote
WAGN's counter-arguement (is it they who own the land?) ...

A call has been made to North Mymms Parish Council to try to establish who owns the land. This site is still waiting for a reply. Perhaps if any councillors are reading this, or anyone else knows, they could post details in the forum or mail feedback@brookmans.com
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on January 26, 2003, 12:42:15 pm
I am pretty sure that, at the time (many years ago) they originally put parking restrictions around the village green, residents were told that the car park would be a free car park and that charges would not be introduced at a later date.    I imagine there are references to this somewhere in old papers for the Parish Council, Ratepayers Association, District Council, Traffic Dept etc.

There again, I suppose no authority is going to be bound by something that was said 20 something years ago.

Mary
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 27, 2003, 02:51:55 pm
Quick update on the issue of ownership.  The land was owned by BR. Ownership then moved to Railtrack and is now in the hands of Network Rail (http://www.railtrack.co.uk/).  WHDC used to lease the land but the rate being asked was too high so the authority has let the lease go. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/january03/parkingcharges4.shtml) for an update on the station car parking charges issue.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 27, 2003, 03:10:05 pm
Potters Bar has yellow lines for a ridicules distance from Darks Lane, but only to drive motorists into the council car parks, of which there are none in PB. Parking will become a problem in Westland Drive and possibly down Station Road – where the pavement will probably become the new free car park. Other roads may also suffer and don’t be too surprised to have people block your drive all day. I’ve seen that happen regularly to friends who live near stations.

Normally I’ve no issue with driving motorists out of their cars – and welcome congestion charges, but this is a way of hitting motorists who want to leave their cars behind, use public transport and get some cars off the road.

Sadly if this is Network Rail’s doing, no amount of protest letters or names on a petition will make any difference.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on January 27, 2003, 06:11:47 pm
What has our village got to do with the council.
Perhaps we are the only place left to mess up >:(
I suggest we declare independance like Pimlico did in the film "Passport to Pimlico" :). Its another case of interfeering jobsworths >:(
Congestion charges are "fine" if its someone else who is paying, for instance a certain Mayor will never pay them as he cannot drive ??? Reminds me of various  ministers who cannot drive, how can anyone get through life without being able to drive ???
Can someone tell me how an industrial salesman can leave his car at home, why should I oops they be taxed for working! its all right for these high paid city commuter chappies ;)
One rule for one and another for others. >:(
All are equal but some are more equal than others. >:(
regards,
jet
Rant of the week and its only Monday beat that YNH ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on June 13, 2003, 02:12:43 pm
I've recently passed my driving test and have now taken to the roads. So I feel it is now only fair I can now properly complain about other road users. The main thing I have noticed is the way people park in the village. In the Highway code it qoutes "DO NOT park your vehicle or trailer on the road where it would endanger, inconvenience or obstruct pedestrians or other road users. For example : - opposite or within 10 metres of a junction, except in an authorised parking space. So why is it so many people park right of the corners. For instance when you enter The Gardens from Bluebridge there is always a car on the corner stopping you from entering the road of the left hand side. This means if there is a car leaving The Gardens then you are stuck on the corner with you rear out on to a main road. Sometimes it is not possible to actually enter the road at all and you cannot see round the row of cars parked there so you edge forward to see round them. The problem is when there is a car coming you have to reverse onto the main road which is also part of the highway code - "Do not reverse from a side road into a main road."
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on June 18, 2003, 05:40:27 pm
Just to let John know,Wagn or Central Parking Systems have raised the charge again at Potters Bar to £3.30 per day.
At this rate it will be a fiver before you have time to read this mail >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 26, 2003, 10:42:44 pm
A campaign has been launched to try to ensure that shoppers are able to park near the village shops. Click here for more details (http:///news/november03/parking.shtml)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on November 27, 2003, 01:23:55 pm
If there's no where in the village centre to park then park round the corner and walk. However that is far too tough to do as it takes way too much effort. How about walking the trip instead of driving?

However I can understnad the idea. There is never anywhere to park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on November 27, 2003, 11:08:41 pm
I think one of the troubles with this is that none of us want to see the pretty village green turned over to more parking, but it's just what it needs. If parking were easier people would be more likely to drop by on their way past.

It's a heathen thought, I know, but if people thought like that in the past we'd all now be driving over mud tracks ('cos it were good enough fer me when I were a lad) and the A1 Barnet Bypass would never have been built (so think how busy the Great North Road would be now!).

And keeping the narrow bit outside Statons two way whilst still allowing parking on one side is lunacy! Particularly for the ladies and their 4 wheel drives...... but let's not ventilate that one again, nor the mobile phones - Jet where are you when we need you?

Off thread but related - nearly got well squished on the bendy bit of Moffats this lunchtime. Stirling Moss decided his Merc didn't like going 35 in 5th so let her go, man (and nearly took me with him).

ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on November 28, 2003, 11:10:30 am
carrig on off thread but in answer to the last post,i have been constantly worried about about "the bendy bit in moffats"as i posted earlier this year.At least 3 out of every 10 times which is a very conservative estimate i have to break hard due to the speed and ignorance of on coming drivers.I'm sure a few years ago there was a mirror which people cud use to see on coming traffic and may be a few "slow down bendy bit of road"signs wouldn't go amiss
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 28, 2003, 11:37:18 am
Quote
I think one of the troubles with this is that none of us want to see the pretty village green turned over to more parking, but it's just what it needs.


I spoke to two shopkeepers yesterday and both suggested the larger of the two village greens be paved over and used as a village car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on November 28, 2003, 11:39:38 am
and why we're at it why don't we concrete over gobions.
There has to be another solution without spoiling the village
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on November 28, 2003, 11:56:17 am
I think there are several areas where extra parking could be fitted in without too much of a degradation of the village centre - The pavement outside the petshop/Wing Wah/Methi/eyecare centre could be narrowed by 6-8 feet and have diagonal parking at the roadside.  The opposite side of the road, where there is already parking, could also be expanded slightly so that cars could park at 45 or 90 degrees to the road.

This wouldn't alter the village centre too much, but would create a reasonable number of extra spaces.

Or people could just walk to the village and not have this problem...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on November 28, 2003, 03:06:32 pm
Perhaps we could operate a park and ride system from the station  car park if people really have problems walking all the way from their homes.......  ::)

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 28, 2003, 03:09:19 pm
Quote
I think there are several areas where extra parking could be fitted in without too much of a degradation of the village centre - The pavement outside the petshop/Wing Wah/Methi/eyecare centre could be narrowed by 6-8 feet and have diagonal parking at the roadside.


Aidan, quite a few cars already park on the pavement there without all the roadworks needed to carry out what you suggest.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TrueLies on November 29, 2003, 05:36:09 pm
Quote
A campaign has been launched to try to ensure that shoppers are able to park near the village shops.


I still lurk and the link didn't work for me. Let me say this as I still know nothing about BP obviously. I understood there was already parking facilities outside the shops. I bet it's shopkeepers themselves who prevent customers from parking. Shopkeepers want a  village green turned into a car park - do you think the Council will make this free parking or pay & display (I know what I think)?. If you have a situation of a pay & display car park and free parking outside the shops, where do you think shopkeepers will park?.

A campaign?. What to ensure shopkeepers make a minimal effort to attract customers?. Sounds like a bypass to the real problem.

TL
p.s. This place isn't the same without Jet about. I feel he would relish a deserved campaign situation, which I don't think this is.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BigJohn on December 03, 2003, 11:23:28 pm
The center of the village looks nice and a car park will ruin it. All it takes is for shop keepers to free up the spaces and for people to be willing to walk a little.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on December 12, 2003, 04:43:47 pm
The last couple of times I visited BP, one bloke had parked his 4 wheeled drive monstrosity so that it stuck out from the curb about 2 foot.  If this wasn't bad enough, he actually 'popped' into the estate agents on that tiny road next to Holywood hair.  Thereby blocking off access to all the cars to drive by and use that that road to turn round in the village.

The next time, there was a small space inbetween to parked cars outside where the vets is.  Perhaps if you were a VW Polo you might have reverse parallel parked there.  However, some bloke drove in front end first and parked half on the pavement and half on the road at a 45 degree angle.  I stood there in shock looking at his appalling parking and his "couldn't care less attitude".

Makes me wonder how anyone could have had the audacity to complain about me parked infront of the sleeping policeman!!

Birch
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cassie on January 11, 2004, 12:43:10 pm
I'm new here so apologies if this has been discussed before but it winds me up so much when I walk along and have to squeeze between the cars parked on the pavement and the wall or hedges of the houses.  

I think Moffats Lane is particularly bad for this problem especially near the bends by Gobions entrance.  

What is the matter with these people that they cannot walk more than 5 yards.

>:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: trinity on January 11, 2004, 04:18:42 pm
It is remarkable just how antisocial cars are. There is parking on pavements. Filling the green with parked cars so that there isn't any room for customers. Cluttering up residential streets all day when there is a perfectly serviceable car park.

And that is before we start to consider the things when they're actually moving.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mad_Dad on January 11, 2004, 05:52:36 pm
And don't forget the grass verges that they destroy.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on March 06, 2004, 10:45:44 pm
Does anyone know what happened to the campaign, launched in November last year, to try to encourage shop keepers and their staff to leave parking spaces in the village for customers? Click here to read that story. (http://www.brookmans.com/news/november03/parking.shtml) This thread, and the other on The End of the Shops in the Village  (http://www.brookmans.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.cgi?board=General&action=display&num=1078177196) are clearly linked, but it might be best to keep parking posts here so people can be reminded about what has aleady been said.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Margaret on March 10, 2004, 01:13:03 pm
Don't know what happened to it but it seems to be working, have managed to park easily for the last 4 or 5 days. Hope I wasn't just being lucky.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2004, 07:01:56 pm
It was interesting to see the reaction to the appearance of two traffic wardens around Bradmore Green this lunchtime. As they walked round in their yellow jackets taking numbers, people were scuttling out of their shops and moving their cars up Brookmans Avenue. There must have been cars for about 100 yards parked on the left going up the avenue. I wonder if the visit was a one off, or a sign of a fresh determination to tackle the village parking issue?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on November 12, 2004, 07:06:06 pm
This is the biannual visit so that we don't think we've totally been forgotten by the council.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on November 12, 2004, 10:52:43 pm
So what good does a parking ticket do apart from cause resentment.
First come first served.
It is the peoples village after all and we all have cars, so who has any more right than anyone else to park.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2004, 11:15:54 pm
Quote
It is the peoples village after all and we all have cars, so who has any more right than anyone else to park.
regards,
jet


Hi jet,

The issue seems to be not about peoples' right to park, but the length of time they park for. According to some shopkeepers in the village, those who park there all day are denying customers parking spaces and, in turn, costing the local businesses revenue through lost trade. This added to the competition they face from out-of-town stores and it adds up to quite a problem.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 25, 2004, 08:32:40 pm
I saw a disturbing incident today on Moffats Lane and again on Bluebridge Road.

An elderly woman, who uses an electric vehicle to travel to the shops, was unable to negotiate the pavements on Moffats because so many vehicles were parked on the kerb.

I saw her struggle to manoeuvre her wheelchair onto the road and around the parked vehicles. She was clearly frightened, so I watched out for her to make sure she made it back to the pavement as far as the next obstacle. Later, as I returned from the village, I saw her having to venture out into Bluebridge because of more obstructions.

It must be a nightmare for the elderly, the disabled, and parents with prams.

If drivers parked on the road it would free up the pavements for pedestrians and also probably help slow down traffic.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Blue Friday on November 26, 2004, 01:09:11 am
How about the parent (?) that parks right on the corner of the edge of Pine Grove and the road to Chancellors at 3:20 pm?  Sometimes the driver parks on the grass verge, sometimes the driver really causes chaos by not managing to get the car up on the pavement at the corner and parking about a foot away from the kerb, that helps the visibility for the other drivers...NOT

The driver thinks that all is well as the car is from an expensive marque, but what about the child that gets in on the offside where the visibility is at its worst?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: freespirit on January 31, 2005, 02:33:53 pm
 :( I have to say I am amazed at the parking on Bluebridge Road right opposite the Methodist Church.  The car is usually parked on the curb facing the wrong way and on the brow of a hill.  How better can they do.  I dont knnow who owns it but would have thought the drives of those houses could find space for one small blue car!!!!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: trinity on February 06, 2005, 01:06:07 am
Quote
:( I have to say I am amazed at the parking on Bluebridge Road right opposite the Methodist Church.


Or on Oaklands Avenue, where the spur from Bluebridge Road meets the "loop" part of Oaklands. When we lived in BP it wasn't at all uncommon to find a car parked right opposite the spur. Oaklands not being the biggest of roads, it made negotiations between a vehicle entering Oaklands from Bleubridge, and one trying to leave that way, far more of a pain than it needed to be.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gashead on March 12, 2005, 08:05:54 pm
I noticed that fairly recently the yellow lines on the roads around the Green have been repainted/added. I also noticed that an awful lot of drivers do not take the blindest bit of notice of these lines. Does anyone know if there is a number where you can call a traffic warden on demand? I think that a few tickets on cars parked because people cannot be bothered to walk a little might straighten out a few attitudes.

Before someone jumps up and down, I will point out that my (thankfully ex) neighbour used to drive all of, I estimate, 150 yards to buy ciggies. Frequently.

Whilst I hold a driving licence, I do not drive at the moment, but it still incences me to the point where I would seriously like to put a large dent in the side of cars parked on these lines which are clearly causing other drivers bother, especially when the drivers of said vehicles are sat in them.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on March 12, 2005, 09:56:21 pm
In Hertfordshire a couple of years ago, the police withdrew their funding for traffic wardens in the local area, although they do still have overall responsibility for parking enforcement. The lack of traffic wardens hardly discourages people from parking where they shouldn't however!

This responsilibity is passing to Welwyn Hatfield Council in June.

This webpage explains things:

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/search/default.asp?step=4&pid=473

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Abbot on July 13, 2005, 08:31:32 am
My wife informs me that they are cutting down trees in the station car park today.

Therefore there is a lack of space.
 
Expect non yellowed line roads around the station to have a few more cars parked there for the day.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on July 14, 2005, 09:28:08 pm
Scorched earth policy, my missus said the chaps doing the work said it was because the franchise was up for renewal so they wanted to tidy the place up a bit.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 14, 2005, 09:30:06 pm

it was because the franchise was up for renewal so they wanted to tidy the place up a bit.


I wonder what that means. Parking meters?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 13, 2005, 07:11:42 am
What do forum members feel about the number of cars parked on the pavement? It’s particularly common on the lower part of Moffats Lane and Bluebridge Road.

I have noticed two electric wheelchairs having to be driven on to the road because the pavement has been impassable. I have seen mothers with prams having to walk on the road in order to pass vehicles parked with their wheels on the pavement.

Sometimes the pavement is completely blocked and school children and other pedestrians are forced to walk on the road. It isn’t uncommon to have to avoid children walking in the road as they make their way to school because they can’t walk on the pavement. Surely this isn’t safe.

Perhaps parking on the pavement indicates that those who park in that way feel vehicles take priority over pedestrians? Perhaps they think it is safer for their vehicle than parking completely on the road.

How about all local residents taking on to ask contractors and visitors to park with all four wheels on the road?

I’d be interested to hear the arguments for parking on the pavement.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: shevans on October 13, 2005, 08:05:55 am
We recently moved out of Welham Green to Northaw, and now live in Northaw Road West. The road has a 30mph speed limit but the majority of traffic travels considerably faster.

Most days there are one or two vehicles parked on pavement forcing pedestrians into the road. In particular there is a repair company who are contracted to WHDC which are the main culprits. They don’t just park half on the pavement leaving two wheels on the road, but park completely on the pavement.

This make it impossible to squeeze pass and the only option is to walk on the road. As I have three young children with a double buggy facing a Bus or Lorry driving towards me at 40+ mph is a very scary indeed.

I have been taking pictures with my phone of the offenders (capturing their number plates), whilst I decide what course of action to take.

By the way, if there is just enough room for the pram to get past, it makes a nice set of lines in paintwork! 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Albert Ross on October 13, 2005, 03:24:59 pm
It is lack of consideration for others that annoys me. There is no excuse for pavement or verge parking. People think that by parking on the pavement or verge they are keeping their vehicle out of the way of other road users. This is not always the case. They often park leaving a gap almost big enough for 2 cars to pass. If they are wide vehicles this often causes mirrors to bash and the parked car gets scraped. If they used their, obviously tiny, minds they would realise that by parking fully on the road they are less likely to get their vehicle damaged. Do they forget that they become pedestrians when they get out of their vehicle? Perhaps the next Neighbourhood Watch newsletter should contain a paragraph reminding people that as well as being anti social it is an offence. A few tickets given out might make people think.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 14, 2005, 10:06:12 am
Well, In Athens where I live, pavements are viewed by all as being car parks, and most pedestrians choose to walk in the road whether the pavements are blocked or not. Personally, I see no harm in parking on the pavement as long as it is a wide one with enough space to get by in a wheel chair. You shouldn't do it really, I suppose, but it isn't something that I could get that upset about. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Fiona on October 14, 2005, 10:44:19 am
Max, I think you'll find people are complaining because there is NO room on the pavement. This is a modern day anti-social activity, rather like people who let their dogs foul the pavement, and sadly it has been going on for just as long.
Seven years ago, when my first son was a baby I was walking back from Welham Green along Station Road with him in his pram. On approaching the scout hut, I discovered to my horror, not just one car parked completely on the pavement, but FIFTEEN. All in a long row. All by mothers who a few years earlier must have had babes in prams just as I did now. There was nothing I could do, but walk in the road for a considerable distance with cars speeding past me doing the national speed limit..or more. I complained to the Scout leader and sent a letter to the local newspaper, which was published at least twice over the following six months.
But nothing changed.
Perhaps the following incident will explain why. A couple of years later, I was walking along the same road, this time with my elder son walking next to me and my younger son in a buggy. On turning the sharp bend from the Brookmans Park Station, I discovered two huge maintenance lorries parked completely on the pavement. Not only was my route completely blocked, they were so vast I could barely see any oncoming traffic. Used to the ignorance of some peoples parking by now, I ventured out into the road. Again the traffic was doing the national speed limit, again whizzing past me and my terrified children. My walking son was so petrified he could barely move. Imagine my relief when I saw the familiar flashing lights of a police car. I walked up to the policeman and complained about the pavement being blocked.
His response : Why didnt you shout, then I could have instructed the traffic to stop to let you past?
Me:   You could neither see me or hear me above the noise? Can't you tell the drivers not to block the pavement, then I wouldnt need to walk in the road with my children. (My son was still shaking.)
Policeman: Drivers get too upset! Not my place.

Wonder how many casualties on the road are caused by people being forced off of blocked pavements.
Lets keep the pavements for pedestrians and leave the roads to the vehicles!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Dubhagan on October 14, 2005, 11:21:37 am
A few years ago I made a point of knocking on doors and asking people to move their cars off the pavement as they were blocking my right of way. But I soon got tired of this as it became more and more prevalent. I asked a policeman his opinion on this anti-social behaviour and he just laughed and said it is hardly a priority. Let us hope that the new wardens in the area will make it a priority. After all, PAVEMENTS ARE FOR PEOPLE>    Dubhagan
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 14, 2005, 12:21:56 pm
I have allways based my parking on Safety, if the road is too narrow to park on the roadway I go elsewhere. why? because its an offence to park on the pavement, it could lead to tragedy and I don't want my car scratched. The answer is to park somehwre safer and walk.
In BP there was allways that "I will do as I want attitude".
I hesitate to comment on the usual type of vehicle that parks inconsiderately.
I am astounded at the police attitude. They could issue fines for a few minutes "work" and they don't bother.
It used to really annoy me when I was walking to have to walk round cars etc, especially when there were driveways they could have gone in to.
Perhaps some householders don't want their contractors/visitors vehicles making their drives look untidy.
A similar thing is the dumping of builders materials on the road/verge while another monstrosity is being thrown up.
The sad thing that the perpatrators are ones own neighbours/villagers, says it all.
I think there was a thread on this in the past?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on October 14, 2005, 12:39:55 pm
Seven years ago, when my first son was a baby I was walking back from Welham Green along Station Road with him in his pram. On approaching the scout hut, I discovered to my horror, not just one car parked completely on the pavement, but FIFTEEN. All in a long row. All by mothers who a few years earlier must have had babes in prams just as I did now. There was nothing I could do, but walk in the road for a considerable distance with cars speeding past me doing the national speed limit..or more. I complained to the Scout leader and sent a letter to the local newspaper, which was published at least twice over the following six months.
But nothing changed.

We have now staggered our pickup/drop off times to try and avoid these problems, and do try and encourage people to lift share. If anyone is still having problems with this, please do let me know. As we are inside looking after the kids at the start and the finish of meetings we are not always aware of what is going on in the car park or outside the gates and do rely on others to tell us.

If I recall correctly, the time which you complained about was when we were coming back from a cub camp by coach and were stuck in traffic, and the parents were stuck waiting outside the hut. We now use alternative drop off and pick up poiints for camps when we may be delayed which have more offstreet parking - e.g. URC or Chancellors - to avoid these problems.

James
Scout Leader, Brookmans Park
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Fiona on October 14, 2005, 02:05:10 pm
Thank you James for your reply. I didn't mean to make you feel guilty, after all the incident did happen seven years ago.
One point I was trying to make and obviously didnt do very well, was that even Mothers who themselves battled against bad parking can become guilty of the same offence once the buggy is no longer needed. It was really a comment on how short our memories can be.
Of course. I'm one of the lucky ones. It only affected me while I had small children in buggies and prams. If however, I was disabled and in a wheelchair, inconsiderate parking would be an ongoing problem.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 15, 2005, 03:58:04 pm
Well, obviously, inconsiderate parking is never a good thing, whether on the pavement or not. If I came across as being tollerant of pavement of verge parking, it is probably because I frequently drive along "The Gardens" where the on road parking frequently necessitates a good deal of concentration, especially where there is that curious and unecessary bend in the road. If people parked in part on the verge along there, it would not inconvenience pedestrians at all and would leave a lot more space for the road. I would be quite happy to see any car parked in such a way as to cause difficulties to someone with a pushchair or in a wheel chair towed away.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on October 15, 2005, 06:35:54 pm
Glad to hear from James that the scout big pick ups and drop offs are now done away from the scout hut.   Traffic was a lot less when the scout hut was built, I cannot recall but probably early 60s.   But it does now seem unfortunate that it so close to a bend in the road.  As far back as the 60s some friends of mine were quite seriously injured on that bend by a car going too fast which mounted the pavement where they were walking. 

I think that in most cases parking on the pavement is wrong, and certainly where it blocks the pavement to pedestrians, prams and wheelchairs, but there are places where it is appropriate to keep width to the road.  An example would be some of the wide pavements in front of the shops in BP - better to get a vehicle off the road when delivering or picking up than to block the road and make it dangerously narrow.

We have the opposite out here in Abu Dhabi.  Whilst the standards of parking on the street are generally appalling, you rarely see a car parked on a pavement, probably because most of the pavements are pretty high.  However, the pedestrians still like to walk down the middle of the road when the pavements are perfectly clear.  I had cause a couple of nights ago to suggest to a lady that I thought her children would be far safer if she walked with them  on the pavement rather than in the road and she looked at me with amazement!   She was walking close to a T junction, the exit from an underground car park and the exit from an on ground car park, so the traffic though moving pretty slowly was coming all ways.

Mary
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Abbot on October 16, 2005, 10:15:30 pm
When walking down Moffats, you even have the trees invading the pavement by the kink. Trying to push the pedestrian into the road.


At least the building work on the otherside has almost finished.

Who should cut back those trees??

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Albert Ross on October 18, 2005, 08:38:04 am
Further to the comment by Max with regard to verge parking in The Gardens. This is all very well but the verges are there to make the area attractive (when they can be bothered to cut them) and if people continually park on them they soon become damaged with big ruts especially in the winter. This not onlt makes them an eyesore but also a danger to anybody crossing them as they become a mass of slipery mud. Most of the people in The Gardens and surrounding roads already have driveways and garages large enough to take all their cars but choose to reserve their piece of road outside their house. If they were more considerate, once again, there would be plenty of room to get the largest vehicles through and preserve the green appeal that attracts people to the area. I think the Council should renew the signs that warn people to not park on verges or pavements.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 18, 2005, 12:32:23 pm
As a former Gardenite, the bonus of the restricted roadwidth caused by parked cars is/was that traffic has to really slow down to pass through.
The law used to be that one could only park a car if it allowed 2 car widths to the offside of it.
Hardly matters in a kind of dead end road though.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on October 19, 2005, 04:18:09 pm
I spotted this van today completely blocking the pavement.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 19, 2005, 05:28:01 pm
No doubt it was white van man dropping off the wages and had difficulty parking because of the great big Jag and 4WD opposite ;D ;D ;D
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cassie on October 19, 2005, 05:52:31 pm
 :o

I presume it would also restrict the view for other drivers.


I started a thread about this when I first joined this forum.


Rule 116 of the Highway Code states:

Do not let your vehicle stand on a footpath, pavement or cycle path.



(My highway code book is quite old but I presume this rule number is the same)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 19, 2005, 06:13:55 pm
Now changed to:

218: DO NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement unless signs permit it. Parking on the pavement can obstruct and seriously inconvenience pedestrians, people in wheelchairs, the visually impaired and people with prams or pushchairs.

The Highwaycode online (http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/22.htm)

N.B.
Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, it itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under Traffic Acts to establish liability.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cassie on October 19, 2005, 10:46:25 pm
Thanks  ;)


Maybe we should get some stickers made - could then stick them on windscreens (and make sure they are the ones that are really hard to get off)


Mind you we would probably get prosecuted for doing it!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 20, 2005, 10:44:22 am
something like this poster (click here) (http://www.wolvesonwheels.co.uk/docs/wowcc_parking_ticket.pdf) with a few changes should work.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Abbot on December 22, 2005, 01:55:06 pm
I know that villagers have a right to park on the yellow lines in the village. Even when there are parking spaces available.  But please could they also ensure that they block the dropped kerbs for pedestrians as well.

This way they can bugger up the flow of vehicles through the village and make it difficult for Pedestrians.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on March 16, 2006, 01:14:49 pm
I agree, that we should all park with all four wheels on the road!
Prams when obstructed by a vehicle parked half or fully on the pavement, should 'accidently' leave a long scratch by the pram, along side the offending vehicles! ;)

Rocket
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mungroo on March 16, 2006, 10:02:06 pm
maybe you can get those piked attatchments to put on pram/buggie wheels - just like Ben Hur
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mungroo on March 17, 2006, 06:55:12 am
I meant *spiked*
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on March 18, 2006, 10:33:25 am
These links are pretty funny viewing. They came up at work and received alot of interest.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4794198.stm

http://warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on March 18, 2006, 12:59:28 pm
Nice to see the Traffic Warden back on Bradmore Green this morning!!! :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on April 27, 2006, 09:39:13 am
It came to my attention last thursday (29th) morning (11am) that whilst being driven through the village by my dad...that there was a severe lack of parking. My dad wished to park up and quickly nip into Meyer's to buy a copy of the Daily Mail...alas there was nowhere to park. every space was filled with a vehicle of some sort. Ironically, the one space that looked empty then revealed a previously hidden motot scooter!

So we had to return home where my dad then took a walk down to the village which is no problem at all.

It just got me thinking about other places that could be converted into parking in the village. Possibly the streach of pavement spanning from the petshop to the dry cleaners. Could this possibly be turned into the style of parking places seen outside Alldays. as i remember this used to be a layby-style affair a few years ago before they re-modeled it.

what do all you motorists think? seeing as currently i am only a provisional motorist, and therefore an onlooker in this situation.

just an idea,
                    aqueous, future driver and user of the village
Asuming you've now passed you test, don't for one moment think of parking on the pavement between the Lavendula and Dry Clearners, as  that area is private property :(
Hope you dont drive against the NO ENTRY signs that are now in operation, like some motorists are still doing! ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Fiona on April 27, 2006, 12:28:29 pm
Hello Rocket.
Having asked the same question myself, I was informed that should the council convert pavements to parking they would install pay meters, which would probably kill off some local trade.

Does anyone know if this is the case?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on April 27, 2006, 12:49:31 pm
Hello Rocket.
Having asked the same question myself, I was informed that should the council convert pavements to parking they would install pay meters, which would probably kill off some local trade.

Does anyone know if this is the case?
Hi,
Since free one hour parking meters have been introduced in Potters Bar I now always manage to find a free one hour space. Surely that must be good for the shop keepers. The sooner that idea is introduced to BP, the better, ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on June 05, 2006, 10:44:08 am
I know that villagers have a right to park on the yellow lines in the village. Even when there are parking spaces available.  But please could they also ensure that they block the dropped kerbs for pedestrians as well.

This way they can bugger up the flow of vehicles through the village and make it difficult for Pedestrians.



Motorists, do NOT have the legal right to park on a yellow line between the hours of 0830 & 1830 Monday to Saturday!!
Single yellow lines mean NO WAITING or STOPPING!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gashead on June 05, 2006, 12:25:03 pm
I think the post may have been a tad tongue-in-cheek but a point well made, there are an awful lot of people who think that yellow lines don't count for them. Top of Peplins Way and green end of Bradmore Way (personally) the worst spots - am I allowed to buy and use my own wheel clamp? If Brookmans Park ever declares UDI we will be able to finance it on parking tickets alone.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 05, 2006, 12:27:10 pm
There has been a case of local residents in Brookmans Park painting their own yellow lines, but the paint faded and everybody ignored them because they were not straight and were clearly painted by a local DIY enthusiast.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Rocket on June 05, 2006, 12:42:13 pm
There has been a case of local residents in Brookmans Park painting their own yellow lines, but the paint faded and everybody ignored them because they were not straight and were clearly painted by a local DIY enthusiast.

David
What ever next!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Abbot on June 07, 2006, 11:15:28 am
Praise for the little car that was parked on the yellow line outside the dry cleaners yesterday.

Stopping people driving into the village, and causing a long queue of Mothers and Fathers taking their little ones home.

Are we allowed to post pictures of cars parked, and create a poll for the most inconsiderate driver?

When will the webcam come back??
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 07, 2006, 11:35:06 am

Are we allowed to post pictures of cars parked, and create a poll for the most inconsiderate driver?

When will the webcam come back??


Hi Abbot,

I am afraid not, we don't encourage the posting of pictures or details that could identify someone - although it's very tempting.

The best thing to do in a case where people are driving inconsiderately is probably to jot down the number and report the incident to police.

There is also a site where you can report an obstruction to the pavement or highway and add the details there.

http://www.hertsdirect.org/actweb/faultreporting/viewall.cfm

David


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on June 07, 2006, 11:40:33 am
When will the webcam come back??

When I find some time.... sorry......

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on July 06, 2006, 11:29:46 pm
I have noticed over the last couple of weeks that we have had a traffic warden in the village.

Does anyone believe that we have a problem with parking in the centre of the village.   Whenever I need to park I have had no problem.   

Obviously people working in the shops need to park somewhere but most of them have parking at the back of their premises,  or in the case of the shops opposite the green on Bluebridge Road, the pavement at the front of their premises and the odd ones who regularly park on the road are not really a major problem.   

The problem I can see with parking limited to one hour is obvious when the warden is around as you see women with wet towels and tin foil on the heads dashing back to their cars to move them, presumably to park them outside the houses with no parking restrictions.   One hour is generally not enough time to have your hair done, particularly at one establishment in the village!

The alternative for local shop keepers and their employees is to park in the surrounding roads which does not go down well with the residents.

So what exactly is sending a traffic warden to Brookmans Park intended to achieve?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nonloso on July 07, 2006, 06:55:01 am
Perhaps it might stop people parking on the pavements.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mungroo on July 07, 2006, 07:54:53 am
Quote
The problem I can see with parking limited to one hour is obvious when the warden is around as you see women with wet towels and tin foil on the heads dashing back to their cars to move them, presumably to park them outside the houses with no parking restrictions.   One hour is generally not enough time to have your hair done, particularly at one establishment in the village!

What exactly is the issue ? Is it that you are simply are not allowed to park for more than an hour or that you have to pay after the first free hour (like Potetrs Bar) ?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on July 07, 2006, 05:27:15 pm
I think you are mistaken about Potters Bar.   You can park free on the street for one hour as long as you display a ticket.   There is not an option for parking any longer on the street.   That is ok if, as in Potters Bar, there are pay and display car parks should you need to park for longer.   The problem in Brookmans Park is that parking is limited to one hour.   As I said, not everyone's business in  Brookmans Park can be carried out in an hour and therefore if you are going to have one hour parking restrictions at least give visitors to the village the option of paying if they need to park for longer.   That is the issue.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 07, 2006, 08:06:24 pm
I agree an hour isnt always long enough. the only times I think it gets too busy down there are Saturday mornings when I have time to park away and walk usually or when there is a delivery lorry covering half a dozen spaces.

I dont evny those delivery guys coming to a small village but if we could stop them altogether I think it would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on July 08, 2006, 06:33:48 pm
I dont think we can complain about delivery lorries in the village.   After all, if they didnt deliver, the shops would have no stock, people would'nt use them and the village would die.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ottoD on September 19, 2006, 08:02:28 pm
The parking, sometimes within 5 metres of the junction with Bluebridge Road is a dangerous hazard. I am surprised that the blue Volvo estate, that seems to regularly reside at this location hasn't been hit.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on September 20, 2006, 12:04:25 am
You are not the only one to pick up on this. I nearly had an accident there this morning. A large lorry was coming into The Gardens as I was oming to the end of the road, but as the Volvo was on the end, the lorry had to cut the corner and therefore block the road for me. As a result the lorries backend was half way onto Bluebridge too. I think a notice on the lamp post there maybe needed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on September 20, 2006, 08:44:53 am
It's caused me huge problems too, the worst being a few weeks ago when coming back from the village I couldn't turn into The Gardens because the Volvo was right on the end and 2 cars were waiting to get out into Bluebridge Road in the other lane, so the road was effectively blocked. Naturally I didn't pull across as there was nowhere to go, so I had to pull up and wait, but the car behind me was  full of 'young ladies' who clearly thought it their right to continue ahead without impediment and I was subjected to a volley of foul-mouthed abuse and threats. My children were very distressed by this.

Another concern is the manoevre when one wants to turn left into The Gardens coming from Potters Bar If there is a car on the end (here I'm being careful to say it's not always the Volvo), I have to pause before making the turn so as not to crash into a vehicle coming the other way up the Gardens. Countless times I have nearly been run into from behind by other drivers, travelling too close, too fast and not anticipating that I may have to pause in this way. If the car weren't parked on the end, I could easily pull into The Gardens with no problem.

I'm absolutely sure that the Highway Code stipulates that one mustn't park within 10 metres from a junction and there is a good reason for that.

I think the car belongs to someone on the other side of Bluebridge Road who doesn't want to park in their own driveway, but still wants it close at hand. Probably not a bad person, but a bit thoughtless .....

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob on September 21, 2006, 01:03:53 am
Perhaps a polite note on the windscreen would point out the error of their ways  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on September 21, 2006, 10:07:40 pm
I think you will find that there are many cars, often dog owners walking in  the woods, who park their cars in The Gardens.   The Volvo owner, as with all car owners who pay their road tax, is entitled to park on the road.   Parking is not exclusive to residents of the road in question.  Generally when I have passed The Gardens, as I do probably six or so times a day, if the Volvo is there, which it often isnt, it is generally parked level with the house and not that close to the corner.   I do believe there is an over reaction here as regards causing a "huge problem".   Perhaps a little tolerance is needed.   If it is really causing a problem, as Bob said, a polite note on the windscreen would probably do the job.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on September 22, 2006, 08:28:17 am

I don't believe that any of us have said that the Volvo owner is not entitled to park in The Gardens have we? Or indeed any car? What we have said is that cars - often the dark blue Vovo - park too close to the junction thus causing problems for those of us driving into and out of The Gardens (not just 'passing by').

Bearing in mind that this has been going on for quite some time, I think that 'a little tolerance' has already been more than adequately shown.

I'm not really in favour of leaving a note on the windscreen, because to be scrupulously fair, one should then leave a note on every parked car within 10 metres of the junction - not really practicable. A friend of mine thinks she knows the owner and has volunteered to talk to her, so no notes yet!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on October 06, 2006, 03:29:34 pm
Yesterday I drove to WG station and saw a very large notice for charges for the car park.  Does anyone know if this has been implemented yet, and if there is anything we can do to change FCC minds about charges?  I remember that WAGN was going to once a couple of years ago but never did it in the end.
Has anyone seen a notice for parking charges at BP?

I think a fairer method would be to give out a free parking permit to anyone who purchases a weekly, monthly or annual season ticket, and charge all those on a daily or those who park from the Industrial Estate.  Why is it again, the commuter who gets penalised? Revenues from actual commuters from WG would be small in comparison to PB. 

The car park always looks full because of staff from the industrial estate park their cars there.  More than half the car park is use used by them and sometimes real commuters, if you arrive after 8.20am, can't park because of them.  >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 26, 2006, 07:06:19 am
As a fairly frequent visitor to Westland Drive, I have often had problems (not huge ones, it must be said) with thoughtlessly parked vehicles in the Gardens.  I can't remember if there are yellow lines where the Gardens joins Bluebridge road. If not, why does anyone suppose that this is the case? It seems to me that this would be the obvious solution to the problem.

 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gashead on October 26, 2006, 09:57:25 am
As residents of Peplins Way will attest, yellow lines have zero effect. A traffic warden with an extra large wodge of tickets is what is needed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PC Jo Wakelen on October 26, 2006, 05:32:41 pm
Hi everyone,
This is a matter that up until now I ws unaware of.  I will look into the problem and deal with it appropriately. 

This may mean that tickets will be issued and action taken by police where appropriate.

I will keep you updated with my findings.

Many thanks

Jo
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: moggins on October 26, 2006, 09:24:11 pm
what a terrific idea, absolutely brilliant, there's revenue to be garnered so lets roll our sleeves up and get stuck in, maybe the funds raised could offset the cost of the community support officer mooted during the summer months.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 27, 2006, 08:03:12 am
Well, that is a very good example of the benefits of having the local Police officer participating in this forum. Thanks Jo.

Shouldn't be difficult to stick a couple of yellow lines down and check occasionally that no one is parking on them (this could also be done for those that are apparently being ignored in Peplins Way.

I don't see this as being a great source of revenue, though, as I imagine that most of us do not park on yellow lines anyway, and those who do will be swiftly discouraged by getting a ticket or two.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on October 28, 2006, 04:50:14 pm
In addition to parked cars at the entrance to the gardens, there is also the problem of the entrance to Oaklands Avenue being obstructed by cars parked outside the Church, when there is a large car park they could use.
Both these roads are quite busy with all the residents of Oaklands, Westland and the gardens coming and going. It would be good if people could park a little more considerately.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 30, 2006, 05:05:49 pm
A planning application has very recently been refused for a bunglaow at the end of the rear garden to the house on the western corner of The Gardens and Oaklands.  Apart from everything else, it was refused on grounds of the reduction of parking.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on November 07, 2006, 10:58:18 pm

Can I ask people to PLEASE be more careful about parking in the Gardens towards the BB Road end, and in particular, when there is a row of parked cars already on one side NOT to park your car on the other side!!

Parking in this way leaves only one car's width for other vehicles to squeeze by in and this afternoon a bus got stuck in The Gardens for 15 minutes just because of this.

A neighbour and I, both of us with cars blocked in our driveways by the trapped bus and with children to pick up from school, had to run up and down the road knocking on doors to try to find out the owers of the cars involved.

I'm not a happy bunny!   >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob on November 08, 2006, 12:02:00 am
What would have happened if a fire engine needed to get through  ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mark_Eric on November 11, 2006, 07:19:18 pm
There is currently a similar problem (to the one mermaid mentioned) in Bradmore Way. A car, I think it is a Vauxhall, keeps parking on the yellow zig zag lines outside the school gates, whilst somebody opposite parks quite close to them. The gap is very narrow. I am sure a fire engine would not be able to get through. They also run the risk of having their cars hit by somebody trying to navigate through the gap. Its a simple lack of common sense or consideration. :( 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on November 11, 2006, 08:30:29 pm
I think if a fire engine wanted to get through it probably could. I doubt the driver of a fire truck, packed with tons of equipment and water, would need to think for very long about how to make a small gap a bit larger.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bobb on January 10, 2007, 03:12:30 pm
It seems we're back to square one with the inconsiderate parking. >:(

A Silver Fiat, the Volvo and a few others are parking so close to the corner that I had a near miss the other day when I had to pull up sharply to let a car out and a young driver going way too fast almost smashed in to the back of me.


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mooniemad on January 10, 2007, 06:41:09 pm
The other problem is people are starting to cut the corner in anticipation of cars being parked there and subsequently blocking the road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on January 25, 2007, 10:35:31 am
LOL John. The very same thought occurred to me.

What on earth was a bus doing in the Gradens? That never used to happen when I lived in BP!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gashead on January 30, 2007, 12:51:41 pm
On the subject of back to square one and inconsiderate I see there has been another outbreak of can't-walk-uphill-itis again. People who insist on being dropped at the top of the station ramp even though it means stopping on a blind bend and virtually a blind hill as well. There is also a variant strain, can't-walk-downhill-itis, afflicting those who need to be picked up by cars parked immediately on the village side of the bridge. I'll be interested in hearing the excuses when there is a head-on prang.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PC Jo Wakelen on April 05, 2007, 09:08:56 am
Hi there,
I'm aware of the residents concerns regarding the parking in The Gardens.  Recently when I have been down there the main corner where most of the problems have been happening appears to be clear.  However, I am not going to be complacent and think all is well in the road.  Regular checks will be made by myself and Steve Harvey the PCSO  for the area and tickets for obstruction etc will be issued. 

In the case of an emergency vehicle needin to get down the road and being unbale too, they will simply nudge the offending vehicles out of the way. 

If people are still experiencing difficulties or new problems are occurring, please email me and let me know.

Many thanks
Jo
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on August 06, 2007, 04:09:56 pm
I was told that within the next couple of weeks FCC are going to install a new ticket machine in the car park at WG. However, the last one apparently was vandalised - you can't buy tickets if the machine is broken.  I wouldn't mind paying as much if there was some sort of security there, only last week the station was vandalised and a car broken into.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on October 16, 2007, 10:40:26 am
Well, FCC have leased WG station car park to NCP and have installed the parking meter, but strangely no clear signs for charges.  Have parking charges been introduced to BP yet?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Carrie on October 31, 2007, 12:21:47 pm
Does anyone know whether there has been a request made for residential parking/permits on the Green for the residents of the flats?  I have just had my 3rd penalty notice as there is limited parking behind the Dental Surgery so I have had to park on the road recently. >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: kay barnes on October 31, 2007, 07:12:31 pm
I can't tell you the answer to this but as a resident of the flats, I can tell you that  we find it impossible to park in the village.
One of the reasons, seems to be the fact that local businesses park their vehicles there.  I've noticed they keep a look out for wardens and only move their cars and vans when they spot them
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 01, 2007, 05:37:41 pm
Bradmore Green suffers from an increasing number of people who want to park there but a finite number of parking spaces.  Shopkeepers complain that if shoppers cannot park near the shops will lose business, become financially unviable and close.

Apparently, Welwyn Hatfield Council is unlikely to change the way it enforces the current parking regulations, or to modify the regulations.  A one-hour free parking as in Potters Bar would need a whole raft of regulations etc which would cost money which is not in the budget.

One shopkeeper who shall remain nameless told me that the council street warden comes round twice with an hour or so inbetween visits, so that he/she can check which cars have overstayed the one-hour parking limit.  Shopkeepers and their staff see the warden making the first round, wait till he/she has gone and then they move their cars.  That way they do not get a ticket, unlike Carrie who is presumably away at work during the day.

Could an answer be to use part of the wide pavements to create more of the side-by-side style of parking bays like there are outside the Co-op?  Do we need such wide footpaths?  Would we be willing to give up part of the grassed areas to create more side-by-side parking spaces?

A suggestion for Carrie.  Demand that your landlord provides you with your own space at the rear of the Dental Surgery secured by a lockable metal collapsing pole.  The planning approval must have been given on the basis of allocated parking at the rear of the building.  If your landlord does not do so, why not deduct the cost of the fine from your rent?  ;)  Get tough.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on November 01, 2007, 07:45:17 pm

Quote
Demand that your landlord provides you with your own space at the rear of the Dental Surgery secured by a lockable metal collapsing pole.  The planning approval must have been given on the basis of allocated parking at the rear of the building.  If your landlord does not do so, why not deduct the cost of the fine from your rent?

If the flat is rented out without a parking space then I can't see why the landlord would be under any obligation to provide one or pay any parking fines.

Possibly flats with parking command higher rents ?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on November 01, 2007, 11:55:47 pm
Kay,

 We have a small business on the Green.  There are a number of options available for parking.

1.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on November 02, 2007, 12:13:25 am
Kay,

Sorry about the previous post.   I hit the post button by accident before I had finished.

We have a small business on the Green and whilst we have parking available to the rear of our business it is very rare that our spaces are available when we arrive in the morning, usually the residents of the flats above leave their cars there during the day whilst they are at work.

We therefore have a number of options.

1.  Park on the Green and when we see a traffic warden, run out and move it to .......

2.  The residential streets on the outskirts of the Green.   Unfortunately if we do this
     too often then there is the possibility of a note (not always polite) being left on the
     windscreen or, as has been the case malicious damage caused to the cars.

3.   The station car park where, if there is a space available, we will park it amongst
      the broken glass from car windows previously broken into in this unsecured car park.

We do understand the problems of the limited parking spaces in the village but we do need to get to our business in the morning and we do need to be able to park our cars all day.

I have thought that perhaps the wide pavements, particularly on the left as you drive into the village, would be ideal for side by side parking, and perhaps the parking outside the Post Office
could be extended to the corner of the road.

I dont really know what the answer is but we all have our reasons for needing to park in the Village.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 02, 2007, 05:24:17 pm
Since my previous posting I have been shown that the pavement outside the Post Office etc has services under the pavement which makes it too expensive to relay the services and widen the roadway for parking.  However, that still leaves a reduction of the grassed areas to allow new parking bays.  What do you think?  Any other ideas would be welcome of course.

Sasquartch said
If the flat is rented out without a parking space then I can't see why the landlord would be under any obligation to provide one or pay any parking fines.

Possibly flats with parking command higher rents ?


I repeat my original thought that planning permission would have required a parking space for the flat so why not demand it.  Even if it costs a bit more in rent it must be worth it for the security of having a dedicated space.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on November 02, 2007, 07:41:49 pm
Bob

Not all of the flats in Station Close have garages. There are no allocated parking spaces for Station Close residents either.

Possibly as the flats were built in the 1950s or 1960s parking wasn't a condition of planning permission being granted, although the yellow lines outside weren't there either.

However, the fact remains that a landlord of a Station Close flat would not be in position (assuming it had no garage) to offer a tenant a parking space even if he wanted to regardless of whether a tenant 'demanded' it.

I am sure there are thousands of flats in London with no parking provision.

If you have a car and rent a village centre flat without a garage or allocated parking spot  you can park legally in the side streets, certainly cars are parked down Peplins Way by people that don't live there. Not ideal I know but there isn't really an alternative, I certainly wouldn't be happy leaving a car parked in the station car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on November 02, 2007, 10:42:18 pm
I dont understand why no parking is allowed on Station Close.   It would certainly make it easier for people visiting the local shops to have that extra bit of parking available.  Restrictions could be for 1 hour.

I am aware of one resident there who phones the traffic wardens as soon as a car is parked outside her flat and the man in the grey van turns up almost immediately.   

There are many people, mostly elderly, who need to be dropped off and picked up from both the hairdressers and the osteopaths and often Station Close is the only available place.

A little tolerance for five or ten minutes by this resident would make it a bit easier for everyone and would certainly make her more popular with her neighbours.

 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Carrie on November 05, 2007, 01:34:22 pm
I was informed when I rented the flat that there was no parking space available but that the area behind the flats was ok.  However, the Dental Surgery occupies 5 of these spaces (with clamping warnings) and I was reminded (not very nicely either!) on Saturday that this land was private property.  The rest of the land round the back of the flats is more like a small area of wasteland for the bins etc which you can at a push get 2-3 cars on - which are usually taken up by the rest of the local businesses.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 05, 2007, 05:09:38 pm
Carrie

Permission was granted in 1990 for an extension over the existing showroom to form a first floor flat, and conversion of a maisonette to form two flats with car parking.  On the face of it you should have a parking space presumably at the back of the building.

The Welwyn Hatfield Council planning reference is S6/1990/0588/FP.  I suggest you contact the council and ask them to check back on this approval.  My feeling is that the car parking was for the flats as well as the business.  The details on the council website do not give any more details.

Address - Planning Dept, WH Council, Council Office, Campus East, Welwyn Garden City AL8 6AE.  Or phone 01707 357000 but obviously the planning officer will have to dig into the archives, assuming they still keep the paperwork.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gestapo on November 06, 2007, 10:09:03 am
WGC station does NOT have a car park run by FCC, Howard centre car park is run by Howard centre, multi storey and open air car parks are council run.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on November 06, 2007, 11:23:15 am
Think we may be confusing Welham Green with Welwyn Garden City........................
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Merri on November 08, 2007, 08:24:56 pm
By charging to park at Brookmans Park station it would ease some of the inceased numbers of cars coming to BP to park for free,in turn it will help keep some parking spaces for shop staff and of course the shoppers!! Without whom we wont have  an active village at all.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on November 13, 2007, 05:26:52 pm
Although I am pretty well miffed about having to spend MORE money on my daily commute....like £2000 isn't enough!!! One good thing that has come out of the parking charges at Welham Green station is that you can now take your pick of where to park.

Before people from the industrial estate parked there and after 8.15am it was nigh impossible to get a space. Now only about 15 people park regularly!

Shall i park on the left...on the right...down a bit...up a bit....right at the end...spoilt for choice...but damn it's costing me!

Am I correct thinking that the car park at BP is actually council owned and not FCC? Which is why parking hasn't been introduced?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 14, 2007, 10:16:43 am
Network Rail own the car park at BP station I believe.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mallow on November 14, 2007, 12:08:05 pm
Network Rail own the car park at BP station I believe.

I was told it was council owned which is why there is an issue with CCTV.  The council don't want to suffer the cost for a piece of land which is used by rail customers. ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mallow on November 14, 2007, 12:14:34 pm
By charging to park at Brookmans Park station it would ease some of the inceased numbers of cars coming to BP to park for free,in turn it will help keep some parking spaces for shop staff and of course the shoppers!! Without whom we wont have  an active village at all.

Can't see it myself.  People won't park for free and walk that far as it is, so I can't see them paying and walking. :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 16, 2007, 05:02:56 pm
Further to my posting on 14 Nov, the BP station car park is owned by Network Rail unless it has now been taken over by First Capital Connect.

Mallow was partialy correct.  It was leased to Welwyn Hatfield Council but when the lease came up for renewal the rent increase was more than the council was willing to pay so it reverted back to Network Rail.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: NMLHS on November 22, 2007, 10:46:47 pm
I avoid places where I have to pay to park if I can.  I wonder how many people will share a similar view and avoid BP if they were to introduce charges anywhere in the village for parking.  The quickest way to kill off a place is to make people pay to go there, then what few shops there are will wither and die even quicker leaving more room for the estate agents offices and hairdressers! 

Parking in our village is regulated by the number of places there are and it costs nothing to administer.  All a parking meter or pay and display does is to pay for a warden to administer fines, which puts the price up, which costs more to administer ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 23, 2007, 10:56:56 am
Taken to a logical (illogical???) conclusion:
- no parking available due to shop staff getting there first,
- shops lose customers, lose money and close,
- shopkeepers and staff disappear. 

Result -  parking spaces become available.

Shop landlords have to reduce their rents to attract new shopkeepers,
- new shops open,
- lessons not learned so shop staff fill parking spaces, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Merri on November 26, 2007, 09:39:14 pm
People won't park for free and walk that far as it is so I can't see  them paying and walking; That is the point! If there is a charge for parking at BP as there is at other local stations there would be no advantage for commuters to travel into BP taking up what little car parking spaces (in the car park) there are, so locals who unfortunately have to drive to the station then park around the side roads preventing shop staff and more importantly shoppers from parking. As I said ,no shoppers, no shops, no village ,house prices directly hit!!! yes we can all move but do we want that I don't been here too long now to want to go.   :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on January 10, 2008, 07:32:30 pm
Does anyone know who we should complain to about parking on the pavement. Having just succeded in scraping the skin off my arm on a car wing mirror whilst trying to squeeze by between it and the bushes. We always have several cars parked on the corner between The Gardens and Westlands, which besides making the pavement impassable also force any cars, coming from Westlands into the Gardens, to drive around a blind corner on the wrong side of the road, and straight towards pedestrians who are having to walk in the road.

I see that PC Jo Wakelen said to email her, but does not appear to have an email address visible.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 12, 2008, 07:34:45 am

The new parking laws could be fun. According to BBC radio and BBC News Online, councils will be able to penalise people who park next to a dropped kerb or too far away from the kerb. Click here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7184510.stm) for more details.

I wonder if anyone can find a link to help clarify what this means for parking outside a domestic property with a dropped kerb leading to the drive? Will we need to measure and mark a distance from our drives to be safe? And what is the right distance to park from the kerb? And is it more of an offence to park too far from the kerb than it is to park partly on the kerb?

The BBC says the changes are contained in The Traffic Management Act, but I have searched the UK Parliament Bills and Legislation section (http://www.parliament.uk/business/bills_and_legislation.cfm) and can’t find the answers. I have emailed Grant Shapps MP to see if he can find the information. Perhaps PC Jo Wakelen can help clarify, too?

Another change is that fines will be issued by post using CCTV evidence, and traffic wardens will be able to issue tickets even if somebody is in the process of driving away. I wonder how that will work with parents dropping off youngsters for school in areas where parking is not allowed. Will that mean many more tickets being issued by post? I am sure all these questions were dealt with during the bill's passage through parliament, but I have totally failed to find the references.

 :(

The changes come into effect at the end of March.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Iain on January 14, 2008, 03:35:39 pm
Mike

Just click on the blue icon, bottom right under Jo's photo.

Iain
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on January 24, 2008, 01:29:08 pm
Just 2 more examples of parking and driving numpties.. Monday, top of Brookmans Avenue, around 3.30pm, lots of cars waiting for their darlings from school, parked both sides of the road. Lady in red Astra has to wait whilst another driver squeezes past using a small space still available. Having seen that this space was the only way traffic could pass, where do you guess Astra driver then stops and parks? er, hello!!! You guessed it! ......   Wednesday, I'm driving down Moffats Lane just past the old Chapel, Land Rover Discovery (male driver this time) comes around the blind bend at speed on the wrong side of the road. Good job I wasn't a second earlier and I am quick on the brakes. Good job too my van load of wood was secure too, I might have been headless by now! Come on drivers, THINK!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: LongTallSally on January 24, 2008, 03:01:42 pm


Is it time to name and shame the offenders?

As Ferdie said...THINK!!!

Bluebridge Road is afflicted by people who park their cars completely on the pavement! Now, to achieve this amazing feat...the driver has to drive completely over the grass verge at the side and then completely cover any pavement concrete. My sons like to scooter or roller-skate to the shops and you can imagine how irritating this is when there is no way to get round the offending vehicle without navigating mud! In roller-skates and a scooter, it's not pleasant for them and, as I usually have to clean the wheels, me!!

Does the driver think their car is a pedestrian??



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 24, 2008, 03:37:54 pm
Perhaps if the car was, errm, accidentally scraped by the pedestrian squeezing past, they might think twice before parking on the pavement.

Parking on the verge is one thing but blocking the path for pedestrian is totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ADM on January 24, 2008, 03:46:58 pm
I agree that parking on pavements and/or grass verges is anti-social and selfish but

LTS

Unpowered scooters cannot legally be used on pavements as they have no right of way, but the DfT admits it is not very practical trying to enforcement the law. Local bye-laws can be created banning them.

Rules concerning roller skates are not clear. It hasn't been established in case law whether these are classed as vehicles or not. If they are, they cannot legally be used on pavements. But, as with unpowered scooters, enforcement is not considered very practical.

Sasq

Like you, I cannot condone any act of criminal damage.  But you'd think these people might abandon their vehicles with a little more thought.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Anonymous! on January 24, 2008, 04:15:18 pm
Has anyone else noticed the blue van parked right on the end of Bluebridge Avenue for the last few days as well? Not sure if I'm the only one noticing it as no-one else has mentioned it!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: LongTallSally on January 25, 2008, 02:35:38 pm
ADM


You never asked how old my children are and that is a relevant fact in the case of scooters and roller-skates.
As they are nine and seven, they are deemed too young to use the road. As I am with them it also means annoyingly muddy shoes for me!

It seems like 'Cars are the new pedestrians!"


 




Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ADM on January 25, 2008, 03:46:59 pm
At nine and seven they are deemed too young to be issued a fixed penalty notice. 

But I presume that the laws relating to what can be used on pavements applies to all age groups.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Abbot on January 25, 2008, 04:02:58 pm
Put Prams on the Road, free up pavements!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 25, 2008, 09:12:54 pm
Keep death off the road drive on the pavement.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cookie on February 05, 2008, 08:40:13 pm
There seems to be a abandoned camper van in the station car park.  It's tax ran out on 31st October 2007 and it now has 2 flat tyres.  I called the Police but they can't do anything.  I have a feeling the Council will say the same thing as it's not actually "public" land.  Any ideas how to get rid of it?  It's taking up valuable space in the car park, which is now full every day.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cookie on February 05, 2008, 08:48:10 pm
On a similar issue, I must apologise to the poor residence of Westland Drive.  I am now forced to park my car in that road as there are no longer spaces in the station car park when I get there.  No point in telling me to walk to the station - Brookmans Park is my nearest station at 3 miles away and there aren't buses where I live!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on February 05, 2008, 09:16:09 pm
If it is on open land (which it is) then the council can remove it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on February 06, 2008, 05:02:21 am
Cookie - If you have no luck with the council, there is a gypsy site in South Mimms and the lads there will take it away for nothing.  If you're coming from Barnet on the St Alban's Rd (A1081) the site is on the right hand side on the bend just before you hit Bignells Corner, South Mimms. Ask for Len or any of the boys. Don't worry, they are good gypsies.

It was costing councils in the UK millions to clear abandoned vehicles. In recent years, the economies in China, India, Pakistan etc have been booming and they have a huge demand for natural resources including scrap metal, especially non ferrous. This has sent scrap metal prices through the roof and many gypsies are now clearing abandoned vehicles/scrap metal all over the countryside as they did in the 70's which in turn, is saving the council fortunes! :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on February 06, 2008, 09:39:05 am
Does anyone know who we should complain to about parking on the pavement. Having just succeded in scraping the skin off my arm on a car wing mirror whilst trying to squeeze by between it and the bushes. We always have several cars parked on the corner between The Gardens and Westlands, which besides making the pavement impassable also force any cars, coming from Westlands into the Gardens, to drive around a blind corner on the wrong side of the road, and straight towards pedestrians who are having to walk in the road.

I see that PC Jo Wakelen said to email her, but does not appear to have an email address visible.


Mike, I am pleased you made this point. 

There was and possible still is an application to build a “Small Block Four of Flats” on that very corner.
One of my main objections was the limited space for parking several families’ cars in the road and on the corner, as the proposed off-street parking was inadequate.

The application has been turned down but I am sure it will resurface again very soon.

See my post “Yet another block of 4 flats -13 The Gardens”
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on February 06, 2008, 10:17:29 am
Surely people cannot make arbitrary decisions whether this vehicle can be scrapped ??

OK, I know it's not taxed but surely a member of the public can't just have it scrapped because it's in a parking space (which they don't own)

I think last time I helped a friend  dispose of a car the scrapyard required the V5 (?) registration document. How would the gypsys get that unless it was the actual owner asking them to scrap the vehicle.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 06, 2008, 10:56:29 am
The car park is owned by Network Rail.  If there is anyone in the ticket office, why not tell them about this vehicle?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on February 06, 2008, 11:19:28 am
Sasquartch - Obviously I was not indicating anything illegal and it was purely a suggestion if all else fails. Clearly anybody involved with taking away the vehicle would have to assess matters first i.e is it stolen, who it belongs to etc and this would include the gypsies (they are not daft) or whoever lands up taking the vehicle away. As Bob Horrocks stated - the ticket office would be the first point of contact which seems very logical to me. For your information, 9 times out of 10, the gypsies would be contacted to remove the vehicle and would also be given the registration documents.  If you are a regular user of scrap yards with an account, you rarely need documentation in any case but that's bye the bye.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cookie on February 07, 2008, 07:43:57 pm
No, neither the Council nor Network Rail own the car park.  I tried calling last year to get broken glass removed and neither party would do it as they said they are not responsible.  I have heard it belongs to the people of Brookmans Park.  Which begs the question - from whom did Network Rail get get permission when they used the car park to do their engineering work last year?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on February 08, 2008, 10:13:17 am
It seems that charging to park at Welham Green has caused a lot of problems for residents in the surrounding areas. Those that needed to park there and now have to pay extra, congestion in the surrounding roads due to commuters and industrial estate cars being parked in residential roads. Commuters in surrounding areas such as Colney Heath that once would have parked at WG, I would presume now park at BP as it's free causing the car park to overflow at times.

When the WG elections were being canvassed for the LibDems said that they would look into these problems, maybe it needs the elected party to also look into this. Seems the most logical solution would be to make WG carpark free again and all these problems will disappear. My suggestion would be for season ticket commuters to have a free-pass to park, thereby stopping the industrial cars clogging up the car park and NCP could still ticket them if they park there.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on May 28, 2008, 03:30:41 pm
Well, FCC has yet again put up its parking charges at WG train station by a whopping 25% - so since they started charging less than 2 years ago they have now put prices up twice and well above the general rate of inflation.

So what do we commuters get for our money.....white lines and a big communicator thingy which i have never ever used anywhere on the transport system.

So expect more people to park in the BP car park and surrounding areas of WG.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Carrie on June 06, 2008, 11:47:53 am
There was a leaflet left on the train last night from First Capital Connect regarding charges at carparks.  Apparently a new scheme has been introduced where there are no ticket machines - which is Phone and Pay.  BP is one of these such carparks.  Has anyone else heard of this yet?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Carrie on June 06, 2008, 11:49:49 am
Here is the link http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/content/doc/cms/car_parking.pdf
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on September 26, 2008, 02:53:47 pm
Came back to my car this afternoon to find a notice on the windscreen that the carpark is to be closed first week in October for "upgrading", which includes "new car park technology" - no doubt another term for pay machines! I thought there was a doubt that First Capital Connect did own this land?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on September 26, 2008, 04:30:55 pm
Not good news.  >:( When they introduced the parking charges at WG I spent a cavalier few weeks not paying it until I got fined!!!  :(
There is one good side in WG is that people from the industrial estate don't park there any longer so there's always space, but the downside for locals is that everyone who arrives early parks in the streets now.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 29, 2008, 10:33:56 am
The Parish Council took this up with First Capital Conect, explaining that it will increase the parking problem in the village.  They replied to say they were sorry that NMPC was unhappy with the propsed Pay and Display parking scheme.  The request not to start Pay & Display had been forwarded to the manager responsible for this car park for his attention and action.  That was on 15th August and guess what - no reply!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on September 29, 2008, 05:31:46 pm
So who does own that land then?  I always thought it was gifted to the village years ago.  I believe this was mooted by WAGN as the reason there was to be be no CCTV cameras.  Does anyone know a definitive answer?!?

Aidan
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 30, 2008, 10:53:17 am
The freehold is owned by Network Rail who have leased it to First Capital Connect.

According to a very reliable source, some years ago it was leased to Hatfield Urban District Council, which was absorbed into Welwyn Hatfield Council in 1974.  When the lease came up for renewal Network Rail wanted too much for their annual rent so the lease lapsed.

The land title is unregistered.  I checked with the Land Registry.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on October 01, 2008, 10:54:36 am
when my husband slipped and fell on some ice a few winters ago because the slope into the car park hadn't been gritted, he was told by both Network Rail and the council that they didn't own the land and it wasn't their responsibility!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Paul Riddle on October 01, 2008, 12:02:33 pm
Unless the charges are very modest I, for one, will be parking in the streets locally.   No doubt this will upset the residents who live near to the station and eventually lead to yellow lines and resident's parking bays.  The character of the village is I suspect going to change radically. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: loopy_loo on October 02, 2008, 01:05:50 am
Unless the charges are very modest I, for one, will be parking in the streets locally.   No doubt this will upset the residents who live near to the station and eventually lead to yellow lines and resident's parking bays.  The character of the village is I suspect going to change radically. 

As a local resident to the station yes your behaviour will upset residents.  We already contend with commuters who inconsiderately park; make access to our driveways difficult, prevent brown bin collections because access the road becomes impassable for refuse collection, not to mention deliveries impossible.  We have also seen commuter cars damaged as a result of larger vehicles attempting to squeeze through gaps that do not exist.  This will only deteriorate further. 

As I see it you enjoy free parking which in this day and age is rare.  You have facilities available for safe parking and easy access to the station.  What is not fair is to make some parts of the community you live in have a car park directly on their door step - would you like this if it happened in your area?  We enjoy where we live as it is not a through road, as a result a safer environment for our children.  I really do not want to have parking restrictions imposed as a result of your proposed, and no doubt other commuters, 'selfish' behaviour. 

There continues to be some debate over who owns the car park.  The car park was built around 1976 (I was a resident before then) and the council operated this until around 2 years ago – hence denial of responsibility from Network Rail when the accident occurred in the earlier part of the thread.

It was originally intended not only to provide parking for commuters but also providing an overflow for village parking – which never really caught on and why I believe the council leased the car park until recently.  The increase in paid parking first at PB and then WG has increased usage as well as increased usage from BP residents making this no longer a viable option for overflow parking.  It has therefore become a facility solely for users of the railway and I see no reason why paying for the facility is not seen as reasonable – again in the context of widespread charging for car parking by other stations.  Of course commuters have options, walk, cycle, car share, drop-off or pay and use the car park - if charging does come into effect.  As a side note I believe there would be an incredibly strong case  for safer cycling facilities to be demanded.

Do not get me wrong - I would far prefer this not to be the case and for the car park to remain free.  What I object to is the attitude of dumping your problem on to others.  As of yet no clear notice has been made that charging will come into force.  If this occurs please consider the case above and your action on your BP neighbours.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 02, 2008, 08:24:56 am
Saw the car park was fenced off this morning, although some vehicles had already parked there. Many regulars were forced to turn back and find somewhere else to park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Paul Riddle on October 02, 2008, 01:30:13 pm
My point is a general one and having lived for many years close to Cockfosters station I have been on the receiving end which is why I am angry that I am being put in this position.

I doubt if many people are going to voluntarily pay £80 per month (my guess only) to park when there is space available to park safely and legally on the public highway.  WG is a case in point.

I could even go so far as to suggest that the boot is really on the other foot, it is your view which appears to me to be "selfish" in suggesting that only you should be able to park, on the road, outside of your house.

However I have just thought of a solution. Each commuter pairs up with a local resident and they split the parking fee on a 50/50 basis.  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: loopy_loo on October 02, 2008, 11:33:32 pm
Please note I was careful not to state the point made about parking outside my property - it is after all a public highway - I am keen also that it stays that way and parking restrictions are not enforced.  If parking is done with consideration I cannot nor would not complain and of course I am sympathetic to the potential restrictions being discussed in the car park.  My point was really towards the statement made of upsetting people as though this was your right as a result of the actions of Network Rail and I see from your response that this was not your true intent but one of angst at the potential developments.  I do share along with regular users of the car park one of annoyance at the discussion of Network Rail attempting to further increase revenue. 
The issue comes from seeing the road this morning with very little access as a result of people parking on both sides of the carriageway and treating the road a as a car park and not as public highway and with disregard for people who live there.  I am far from being selfish but I am upset in seeing a quiet road being turned into a chaotic car park -and it was certainly that at 8-15 this morning.  Tomorrow with refuse being collected it will be interesting to see if double parking prevents our refuse from being collected.  Most in the road have ample off road parking but when cars block access to or from your home then it changes the equation.  I have to say having seen some of the residents in the road driving skills I certainly would not want to park opposite their driveway - but your choice!
At the end of the day I guess we both share the same frustration but from different angles.  As for sharing the fee - hmmm!  I would suggest that you choose to live closer to the railway and avoid the need for using your car!  (one churlish comment deserves another).
All we ask for is consideration and understanding and if at the end of the day fees are introduced to weigh this up with the impact of others.  Lets hope that this is a refurbishment exercise and not what we fear it may be. 
Throwing this in - would Network Rail be required to consult the local authorities to impose a charging system given the impact it would have?  Maybe Mr Horrocks could provide an insight?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: loopy_loo on October 02, 2008, 11:38:38 pm
Sorry with respect to 1976 in my earlier post - I have been corrected to 1974 - I was only 2 years old then so memory was not so good!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 03, 2008, 03:40:03 am
I think it's an absolute rip off that you should have to pay to park your car in a railway network car park, especially when the fares are already very high - if anything, it should be free for rail commuters to make things fairer. It's all take and no give.  Everything seems to be a rip off in the UK all the way down the line.  Last time I was over there I had a puncture and pulled in to a petrol station who wanted to charge me for using air!  I thought they were joking but to my amazement they were dead serious.  The UK must be the only place on this planet where they can get away with charging people for air!  :(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on October 03, 2008, 10:01:14 am
I have to agree with Loopy - the area around Westland/Oaklands is virtually impassable for most of the working week for anything other than walking speed cars. Deliveries and refuse collection are often delayed, with lorries having to reverse back up Westland Drive as the corner by the alley cannot be driven round. As someone who does a school drop off (and so leaves the house at 8.30), it is mainly a commuter problem as we do not have this issue at the weekends or post 6pm when it is purely residents who are parking. The other issue as I see it is that the shop workers are also now using these roads - which began when the 1hr restriction came into effect in the village itself.

I have another issue which is that with 2 under 5's, and a disabled husband, I find it easier to park on the main road and then load everyone/everything into the car (saves the buggy rolling down the drive, and my husband stumbling with a stick on a slope!). Most days I am now unable to do this unless I block the road - something I have had to resort to when my husband has been particularly incapacitated.

Does anyone know whether anything is being done to avoid the lethal/inconsiderate parking? I for one, would not be upset if it were residents only parking - everyone in the road has off street parking for at least one car - and there is ample road parking for those with more cars than drive space. Charging in the station car park/limited parking in the village, has just shifted the parking issue to local residents.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 03, 2008, 03:16:11 pm
We've got two cars parked outside our house today (bottom end of Moffats) and that's fine with me. They are parked well and will help slow down the traffic.

Just a warning to those parking, make sure all wheels are on the road and not on the pavement. The community police officer recently posted, or wrote a newsletter (can't find either, but still trying) warning that there will be tickets issued to anyone who blocks the pavement.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on October 03, 2008, 09:29:58 pm
Charging in the station car park/limited parking in the village, has just shifted the parking issue to local residents.

As has happened to WG. Parking was one of the issues brought up during the WG election last Jan but nothing has happened. It seems to me that this issue should be taken up with the local council as they in some ways created the problem by not renewing the lease and presumably knew Network Rail would make a charging carpark as they've done in WG - like no surprises surely.

Several times I've seen the car park attendant checking cars - so you might get away not paying for  a bit, but they'll get you in the end as it's run by NCP and we all know what b*st*rds they are!!!

By the way not everyone can walk or cycle to the station. I suffer from a mobility impairment, but am not registered disabled and would find walking painful.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Sir Bagalot on October 04, 2008, 12:47:33 am
The car park attendant checking cars can ticket as many as they want. Problem is the "tickets" they issue are not legally enforcable. View www.pepipoo.com (http://www.pepipoo.com) for full details
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: barnabus on October 04, 2008, 12:09:11 pm
I had a look at the website mentioned but could not find anything about tickets issuesd in a car park (it was mostly about speeding) - I dont use the station car park myself. I wonder if you could be more specific please?

Thanks

Barnabus
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 04, 2008, 12:59:39 pm
Sir Bagalot, think you need to read the site a little more closely click here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56).

As I read it, they have to prove who the driver was and unlike penalties handed out by the police, you don't have to help them do this. But proving who the driver was may not be that hard (e.g. if there is only one driver insured, they have CCTV or you buy a rail ticket with a credit card).  They can take a civil action against the person they believe to be  driver and if they win you will have to pay it plus costs.

My view is that if you park in a car park which is marked as paying then pay the charge.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on October 04, 2008, 08:07:30 pm
If you read the railway bylaws it says by parking on their property you abide by their terms and conditions.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 06, 2008, 04:15:31 pm
There has been mention in this topic of parking at Welham Green.  Rail users and employees on the Travellers Lane industrial estate are said to be the culprits who park on Holloways Lane, right up to the junction with Dixons Hill Road.  That corner is now quite hazardous and I have ceased to use Hollways Lane as a cut through from BP to the A1000.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Strad on October 07, 2008, 10:16:15 am
Whilst on the subject of Dixons Hill Road. This may be a good time to remind everyone that the Speed limit is 30mph.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 08, 2008, 10:26:13 am
Police have warned motorists using Brookmans Park station and parking in local roads that officers will be issuing tickets if anyone breaking the law. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/october08/Brookmans_Park_station_car_park_to_become_payment_only.shtml) for more details.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Sir Bagalot on October 09, 2008, 01:40:13 am
Sir Bagalot, think you need to read the site a little more closely click here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56).

As I read it, they have to prove who the driver was and unlike penalties handed out by the police, you don't have to help them do this. But proving who the driver was may not be that hard (e.g. if there is only one driver insured, they have CCTV or you buy a rail ticket with a credit card).  They can take a civil action against the person they believe to be  driver and if they win you will have to pay it plus costs.

My view is that if you park in a car park which is marked as paying then pay the charge.

If you constantly don't pay then of course you're asking for trouble as they will merely clamp you.

However, even if they get you to court then all they can claim is pretty much the daily parking charge. Then again there isn't one documented case of them actually going to court.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Johnny Redd on October 10, 2008, 05:23:09 pm
Sorry if this is either a bit off thread or has been asked before.

A relative of ours recently had a Police notice affixed to their windscreen for parking across our drive. Anyone know how the law stands if someone parks across a dropped kerb but with the house owners prior permission????
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 10, 2008, 05:55:34 pm
Hi Johnny, I split your post away from the station car park thread and attached it to this earlier post on this topic.

Here is a sentence from the article referred to in the original post.

Quote
Councils will also be able to penalise actions such as parking next to a dropped kerb or parking too far away from the kerb.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on October 10, 2008, 06:59:45 pm
So, I'm no business man, but....

They've closed the car park for a month. So far, the only thing I can see they have done is added a height restrictor, which could surely have been done over a weekend.

In the meantime, all their prospective customers are finding alternative places to park or ways to get to the station, which, after one month they will be well used to the routine.

Is anyone actually going to park in the carpark when it reopens?!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on October 10, 2008, 07:06:03 pm
Dont forget the white lines cos regardless that for donkey's years we've all been able to park quite adequately without lines - FCC/NCP think white lines are necessary. No doubt should anyone park over a line you'll be fined!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 10, 2008, 07:56:45 pm
I was going to suggest that the car park be boycotted once it reopens so that all the money spent on installing the big brother equipment is wasted. Any idea how much it is going to cost to park all day?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Susan on October 10, 2008, 08:40:06 pm
Johnny, I don't know how reliable this site is, but the answer is here:

http://www.roadsidelawyer.co.uk/questions/if-someone-parks-in-front-of-my-dropped-kerb-with-permission-and-gets-a-ticket-how-do-they-challenge-it/?searchterm=kerb

Sorry about the long URL :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Johnny Redd on October 11, 2008, 07:16:04 pm
Very many thanks David and Susan.

Hopefully common sense would prevail and it wouldn't need an qppeal or adjudication but who knows  ???

Very useful URL though..............
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: steevey on October 12, 2008, 08:18:31 am
Whilst walking home from work on Friday lunchtime along Westland drive I passed 6 vehicles illegally parked on the grass verges

Later that day I went back and not one of these vehicles had been given a ticket despite promises from our local police?

Its a case of all words no action i think
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on October 12, 2008, 08:40:39 am
They were fixing fixed penalty notices to the vehicles parked on single yellow line outside my house in Station Close during the day yesterday (Sat)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on October 13, 2008, 09:13:57 am
Whilst walking home from work on Friday lunchtime along Westland drive I passed 6 vehicles illegally parked on the grass verges

Later that day I went back and not one of these vehicles had been given a ticket despite promises from our local police?

Its a case of all words no action i think

The days of police putting parking tickets on vehicles were over a long time ago. They still can but it is not their core business. This is the job of the local authority and it is they you should be complaining to and about.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on November 03, 2008, 08:58:56 pm
Is anyone actually going to park in the carpark when it reopens?!!

Someone asked earlier in the thread.

Well today at 8.15 am it was hard to get along Westland Drive for cars parked on both sides of the road, but there were only 4 or 5 cars in the re-opened car park.
Looks as if the new charges have cleared almost everyone out of the car park and on to our road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 04, 2008, 09:17:26 am
Hi Silver,

I guess those who have parked free-of-charge in local roads for the past six weeks will continue to do so. The car park will probably be used by those catching later trains or shoppers. I came home fairly early last night and there were only half a dozen cars parked there.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: steevey on November 06, 2008, 08:03:06 am
If the parking continues to be so bad in the local streets due to people not using the car park !!

Its only £2:50 all day to park which i think is quite reasonable these days

The only option would to have residents parking only in the streets close to the station
 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on November 06, 2008, 06:20:06 pm
It's true that £2.50 isn't a lot, but if you have to pay that amount every day as part of your daily commute, it adds up to over £500 a year - not an extra amount many people can easily find in today's economic climate (and, if Potters Bar and Welham Green car parks are anything to go by, the amount is likely to be increased a few months down the line). And residents parking is unlikely to be free either!
I have noticed that only 5 or so cars park in the car park now and wonder whether NCP would be happy to renew their lease when it expires based on that kind of revenue?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 06, 2008, 08:30:31 pm
Parking in Westland Drive as bad as ever - I had a delivery this week (via lorry) which then got stuck at the Alley end of the road, unable to go backwards or forwards. He eventually managed to free himself after approx 20 mins. What is going to happen when an emergency vehicle needs to gain access??

Today, one of the residents in Oaklands had an 'executive car' parked over her driveway - this was there for at least 3 hours. I actually thought this was a public highway offence??

Parking is just making me hopping mad - the inconsideration of people parking astounds me! As for residents parking not being a free option to residents - some friends of mine are in a Residents Parking Area in Potters Bar which allows one free parking permit per household - surely ample for most households?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on November 06, 2008, 09:55:52 pm
As usual there are two sides to every story. If a road is wide enough to allow parking then cars should be allowed to park there. If not, then a control scheme should be introduced, say double yellow lines on one side or at strategic locations (like the hairpin bend by the alley). But blanket CPZ control like Potters Bar is local authority tyranny gone mad. Why should entire roads the width of Mount Grace Road be residents only? When I questioned the droid at Hertsmere Council about this many years ago he said it was "to stop commuters parking there all day". But I thought that roads were there for the benefit of the public at large. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on November 06, 2008, 10:01:41 pm
one of the residents in Oaklands had an 'executive car' parked over her driveway - this was there for at least 3 hours. I actually thought this was a public highway offence??
It's only an offence if you block people in, if you block people out it's not! The Police are powerless unless you are trapped in your drive. It is however, an offence to block the public highway, but since most car drivers have never driven a lorry, they have no concept of the difficulties their thoughtless behaviour causes and how do you prove which driver actually caused the obstruction, ie, who parked last? (unless you catch them in the act) and then you'll only get a mouthful of abuse! Welcome to the real world!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 11, 2008, 08:10:39 am
There were five cars in the station car park when I came home yesterday (17:00) and none when the 06:57 pulled out.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on November 11, 2008, 08:54:19 am
The lack of use has been caused, I think, by the fact that we are at the point of the charge being introduced. For the last 30 odd years, the car park has been free, and it is only now that the charges have been introduced. People don't like the change, and people resent (after so many 'free' years) now having to pay. I understand that and am sympathetic to that.

However, there are very very few free car parks in the country, and we generally expect to pay for the right to park. So someone new to the area, wouldn't probably be surprised seeing the £2.50 a day charge.

What we also need to consider is the parking inconvenience that is being caused around the village. Roads are congested, and people, or their visitors, cannot park near their friends homes. This behaviour is quite inconsiderate.

So come on, pay your money and free up our roads for the residents.

PS - I do not live near the shops, so this is not a personal rant.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Greybeard on November 11, 2008, 02:23:22 pm
Probably NCP are quite used to this. Parking fees push commuters out to nearby roads with unrestricted parking, residents complain and restrictions are introduced, commuters get resigned to paying.

Rather than full scale residents' parking, I suppose we might see short Mon-Fri parking restrictions in nearby roads, such as no parking on one side of the road between (say) 10.00 and 11.00, no parking the other side from 11.00 to 12.00. Minimal bureaucracy and should be cheap to enforce.

Does the car park at Welham Green station get used now?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on November 11, 2008, 07:42:06 pm
I'm not sure whether the car park is full, but Holloways Lane is solid cars from the junction with Dixons Hill Road until almost up to the bend, with one particular dark green car regularly parking right on the junction in a very annoying fashion.  What bliss at the weekends to be able to drive along the road without constant obstructions.

Would there be any point in me reporting the dark green car to the Council?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: peppermint on November 11, 2008, 10:17:05 pm
Perhaps just a polite note explaining the problems it is causing might be enough for the driver to find somewhere else to park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on November 13, 2008, 03:57:53 pm
Does the car park at Welham Green station get used now?

Since parking charges have been introduced they have been increased 3 times!!! Although charges are still lower than at surrounding main stations but it still feel rough as parking had been free for years. Also as my rail ticket went up SEVERAL hundred pounds this year, to be asked to cough up an extra £500 per year for parking is really rough. We're not rich in WG or else we wouldn't be living here and I'm sure with the credit crunch everyone is feeling poorer!!!!

A lot of people from the nearby industrial estate used to park there and the charges have stopped them which is a good thing if you get to the station after 8am as it used to be packed sometimes to overflowing.

Generally, since the charges about 10 or so cars park there. A lot of people park down Holloways Lane, but late parkers can't get a space - I don't know how this affects residents, but presumably during the week they can't park outside their own houses. Most of the houses down there don't have private drives.

Since BP has been shut I have noticed a few more cars parked at WG car park.

Is commuter parking clogging up parking for the shops in BP during the day?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on November 16, 2008, 09:53:16 am
(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november08/Brookmans_Park_Car_Park_tariffs.jpg)

In the picture above there is a Annual ticket for £350 and a Premium ticket for £500. There aren't any cordoned off areas and the spaces closest to the exit don't look like they have any special markings, so does anyone have any ideas what the extra £150 buys you?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on November 16, 2008, 10:14:26 am
I can't believe that Brookmans Parkers are such a tame lot! How has the local life been made better by the decision to sell the land and charge for the car park. It was 100% predictable that people would park in the local streets, that the local residents would be up in arms (rightly) and soon we will obviously see parking restrictions in the surrounding streets. This will force cars to park up Moffats & ultimately more cars will be forced to pay an increasing parking charge. You heard it here first.

Instead of residents blaming each other or saying 'well, £2.50 a day ain't that bad' where is the local action group? Why are we taking this lying down?? How has this decision (made by faceless people who still won't take the credit for it) improved anyone's lot??? The owners of the car park sure aren't going to make a great return..
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2008, 01:51:44 pm

There aren't any cordoned off areas and the spaces closest to the exit don't look like they have any special markings, so does anyone have any ideas what the extra £150 buys you?


The disabled parking slots are interesting. I presume all car parks have to provide them. The question is, how does a disable person get from the car park to the platform. There are stairs to the bridge and stairs up and down to the platforms. So what is the point of disabled parking if there isn't a lift from the car park to the platform. Seems like a matter of ticking boxes to me, rather than providing a meaningful service. They could have saved themselves the orange paint.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 17, 2008, 10:55:52 am
How has the local life been made better by the decision to sell the land and charge for the car park. ......... Why are we taking this lying down?? How has this decision (made by faceless people who still won't take the credit for it) improved anyone's lot??? The owners of the car park sure aren't going to make a great return..

The land is owned by Network Rail, leased to First Capital Connect, and sub-leased to NCP to run the car park.  Your Parish Council has written to FCC getting the usual brush off.  I would think that the current situation is a normal reaction, with NCP etc gambling that people will eventually start using the car park in sufficient numbers to make it pay.   The owners do not care about local life - making money is their objective.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Strad on November 17, 2008, 11:08:27 am
Although the daily rate for station parking is £2.50. For regular commuters the charge can be less. If you purchase an annual ticket for £350 and use it for only 40 weeks a year five days a week, your daily rate will be £1.75 per day and for 45 weeks per year £1.56 per day. So cheer up things are not quite as bad as they appear. (No I do not work for NCP or the railway company!).
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on November 17, 2008, 01:09:01 pm
When the parking charges for WG came in I complained bitterly to FCC and all i got back was some glib response saying the charges could be more expensive like at Potters Bar (£6) and i should be grateful they were cheaper!!  ???

What makes me angry is that at PB you have CCTV but not at WG and even today there was another new fresh pile of smashed glass on the ground presumably from theives smashing windscreens.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on November 17, 2008, 10:38:34 pm

Instead of residents blaming each other or saying 'well, £2.50 a day ain't that bad' where is the local action group? Why are we taking this lying down??


Perhaps residents of Oaklands Ave and Westland Drive could organise a protest by all arranging to park their cars in the road outside their houses on a selected evening, so there were no spaces for the commuters when they arrived the next morning. Just to show that the car park charges have adversely affected the residents as well as the commuters.


(Editor's Note: Edited only to fix quote box. If you want to quote a previous post, click the quote button and copy the text and code and edit out the words you don't want, leaving only the quote you want to refer to.)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on November 18, 2008, 08:09:55 pm
Silver

In theory a good idea.  But wouldn't then the residents be accused of blocking the road if emergency vehicles need to get through - especially on the bit of road (sharp bend close to the path).   

As an ex(1984)-resident of Oaklands, I would have been no good for this as my car would have been gone for the day.  Ironically, to pay the parking charges at Potters Bar which in those days had a far superior train service than BP did.   Sadly the train service from PB is only marginally better than BP these days.

Being an ex-pat, I now only have at most a 10 mins drive to work, which I must admit is great. 

M
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 18, 2008, 09:50:40 pm
Good idea re: parking on the highway BUT my insurance stipulates that I leave my car on my property overnight.... I'm out of the house by 8.30 every morning but that's too late as the cars are already backed up to my house by that time (and to be honest the problem seems to be growing!)

Seriously though, I agree - is there nothing at all (as residents) we can do about this? Can we petition the council about it? (not sure how these things work)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Johnny Redd on November 19, 2008, 11:35:45 am
A thought........If we petition the council, will this lead to

a) Yellow lines, which locals will unintentionally fall foul of (costing money)
or
b) Parking Permits, which the council may discover they can charge for (costing money)

 ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on November 19, 2008, 02:00:49 pm
I agree with Johnny, the last thing we want is yellow lines, fines, permits, etc. But I looked down Westland this morning, near the sharp bend, and was astonished to see people parking on opposite sides of the road. Even a car would have had a problem, let alone a van or lorry.

Please, if you don't want to see yellow lines all through the village, park sensibly. A little longer to walk will do you no harm and will not take long.

You know what the alternative is.....


ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bunny on November 19, 2008, 04:38:00 pm
I have lived in station close for nearly ten years, and due to the yellow lines outside the flats have had problems parking in the village where I live.  These yellow lines from what I understand were put in place after the council had had complaints from residents in station close.

Be prepared for the worse if people start complaining, you like me will soon not be able to park outside your own house, and once down the lines are far harder to get rid of.

You will get people either to start to use the car park, or park further afield, which just moves the problem to another road.  I am sure it will probably be the later option.

I would be happy to pay for parking permits, if it means we can park outside where we live and other people using the trains will be forced to use the car park designed for that function.

I am sorry but we generally have to pay for parking to shop, to eat and to visit theatres and cinema, why do people think because they are going to work they can park for free in BP, when everywhere else people have been paying for some time 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 01, 2008, 11:49:01 am
A reporter from the Welwyn Hatfield Times has contacted the site for quotes for a story on the station car park. I have invited him to register here and post.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on December 02, 2008, 06:48:17 pm
I checked the highway code today, and it actually tells drivers not to park opposite another vehicle if this causes an obstruction. But I don't suppose many people have read their highway code recently. I wouldn't have myself if it hadn't been for this problem!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 08, 2008, 11:18:25 am
A friend of mine has just had a reply from FCC including a response about problems with the new ticket machines, namely the an auditor will inspect the Brookmans Park machine, that they are trialling improved screens and an acknowledgement that they are having technical problems.

The letter lists various 'improvements' to the car park including the 'sighting' (sic - I wonder how many A* GCSEs that writer got?) of help points.  The FCC writer 'understands that you feel these changes will have a negative effect on the local residents' and that ' some customers may no longer wish to use the carpark .... nearby roads may now become more used.'

Your Parish Council has just written to Welwyn Hatfield Council and the Traffic Police about the problems in Oaklands Ave and Westland Drive making it impossible for large vehicles to get through at times.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: concerned on December 22, 2008, 07:44:18 pm
I have heard that the council are looking into yellow lining Oaklands and Westland Drive, to stop people parking there. This would then mean that more cars would be parked in Peplins and Bradmore Way, which suffers from the school parents parking along the road as it is.
It would also mean that those roads would be forced to have yellow lines, which would require residents to have permiits , which the council would make more money from.
This is not the solution, public money supports Network Connect and they should be forced to either scrap the charges or reduce them to 50 pence a day.
If a petition was to be raised objecting to the yellowing in any of these roads, would it be supported?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on December 22, 2008, 09:57:00 pm
I would not support a petition to STOP yellow lines.... as a resident in one of these roads I fully support any move which stops people parking there when there is perfectly adequate parking (albeit at a cost). In my opinion if commuters wish to work in town, then they should be prepared to pay the costs of that (do they also fare dodge every day to save on the cost of a train ticket too?).

As I have already said - the matter around Westland/Oakland is more than inconvenience for residents - there is no way an emergency vehicle could gain access during Mon to Fri - yet at weekends the road is relatively clear.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 23, 2008, 06:23:34 am
Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council leased the land on which the car park is situated from WAGN (West Anglia Great Northern) until 2002, when the council’s cabinet decided to relinquish the lease.

According to the council’s Freedom of Information Officer, the decision was taken at a time when WAGN was proposing to increase the rent from £7,500 per annum to £14,000 per annum, and only offering a short lease period with a prospective rent review again at that time.

The officer said that Hatfield Rural District Council was first granted a lease on the land by the British Rail Property Board in 1973.  This was passed to Welwyn Hatfield District Council when it was formed in 1974. Apparently, no information can be found on previous rentals. There is also no information available on maintenance costs over the years, but it's thought these were minimal.

Based on the £14,000 figure, and the fact that there are about  250 working days per year (i.e. excluding holidays), that would mean that £56 would need to be raised in car park revenue each working day in order to cover the rent.
 
The question remains why WHC did not renew the lease.


These seem questions worth asking.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on December 23, 2008, 06:36:07 pm
We don't want yellow lines or residents' permits in Westland Drive, we want people to park in the car park as they have done for the last 30 years that I have lived in the area.

These charges should not be permitted if they upset the whole balance of the area. Surely someone can see sense here.

Putting in yellow lines would cost the council a fortune and inconvenience residents. If residents' permits were introduced many people who have nothing to do with the station would end up out of pocket. All because the owners thought they would like to make money out of the commuters. It's the root cause of the problem that should be addressed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on December 26, 2008, 04:02:42 pm
Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council leased the land on which the car park is situated from WAGN (West Anglia Great Northern) until 2002, when the council’s cabinet decided to relinquish the lease.
Is it still WAGN or did the ownership move to FCC as part of the franchise?


there is perfectly adequate parking (albeit at a cost). In my opinion if commuters wish to work in town, then they should be prepared to pay the costs of that (do they also fare dodge every day to save on the cost of a train ticket too?).

A monthly ticket from Brookmans Park costs £146. The monthly parking charge is £38. This is a price rise of 26%. Then factor in the inevitable annual price rise in the rail ticket, which never falls below inflation. How many commuters do you think will be getting a 26% pay rise? I'd hazard a guess that a large section, probably the majority, will get 0% and a some will get a cut. While I appreciate your annoyance at people parking, I think you need to direct it at who is really responsible, WAGN or FCC. The people parking in the street would rather they parked in the car park too.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on December 26, 2008, 06:43:06 pm
While I appreciate your annoyance at people parking, I think you need to direct it at who is really responsible, WAGN or FCC. The people parking in the street would rather they parked in the car park too.


Totally agree - well said :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on December 27, 2008, 02:05:20 pm
so for the sake of £38 per month we have to put up with the inconvenience and dangerous parking?? If people were considerate in their parking (instead of having to park within 5yrds of the alley) then this problem wouldn't have arisen! Leaving home a few minutes early to park a little further away (instead of clustered on the corner) costs nothing, yet would mean a lot to the residents. As it is, the commuters are causing the complaints which will inevitably (?) lead to some type of parking restrictions for all (cutting off your nose to spite your face perhaps?).

Please don;t think I'm having a pop at anyone who chooses to work in London - I'm not. But there is a fair number of elderly in these roads and there is no way an ambulance could get round the corner most weekdays - same with a fire engine.....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 29, 2008, 02:36:48 pm
I understand that local police officers are growing increasingly concerned about the likely traffic and access problems caused by the parking situation in Oaklands Avenue, Westland Drive and The Gardens.

I am told that the Highways Agency and Welwyn Hatfield Council are also aware of the problem.

Apparently the Highways Agency is not prepared to paint yellow lines. However, if local residents feel that yellow lines are the answer, they should lobby the local authority. 

I guess the problem is that once the yellow lines are painted they are going to be hard to move.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 30, 2008, 11:50:32 am
I understand that local police officers are growing increasingly concerned about the likely traffic and access problems caused by the parking situation in Oaklands Avenue, Westland Drive and The Gardens.

I am told that the Highways Agency and Welwyn Hatfield Council are also aware of the problem.
David

Very true!  North Mymms Parish Council wrote on 3rd December 2008 to Welwyn Hatfield Council's Executive Member for Transport, with copies to PC Tony Welsh at the Traffic Police, and also to our MP Grant Shapps.  Grant's PA replied that he has written to the Chief Executive at First Capital Connect  and NCP about this problem.

NMPC said that something must be done as a matter of urgency before there is an incident requiring the attendance of emergency vehicles.  NMPC had previously written to First Capital Connect about the parking problem and underuse of the car park which resulted in the standard reply saying, in effect, that nothing will be done - not our problem, guv.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on January 08, 2009, 05:20:29 pm
Quote
Very true!  North Mymms Parish Council wrote on 3rd December 2008 to Welwyn Hatfield Council's Executive Member for Transport, with copies to PC Tony Welsh at the Traffic Police, and also to our MP Grant Shapps.  Grant's PA replied that he has written to the Chief Executive at First Capital Connect  and NCP about this problem.

That letter and the not so helpful response are now posted online here:
http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,4363.msg35813.html#msg35813

Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on January 16, 2009, 03:37:22 pm
Fear not, First Capital Connect have obviously been listening to the complaints made here and elsewhere.

As a result of which, they are putting their charges UP next month!

From 2nd Feb, daily will be £3, week £12.50, month £50 - around a 20% increase I believe....

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: speerchucker on January 19, 2009, 08:59:50 am
£4.80 in Potters Bar - I expect we will reach that by December.... :(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on January 19, 2009, 10:24:57 am
This is truely DISGUSTING!!! This is isn't only a commuter problem - us being truely ripped off in a time of recession, but this of course affects residents in the surrounding areas. It's not good enough that residents complain to the commuters about parking in the streets, they need to complain to FCC/NCP as this is where the problem stems from.
Surely this is something our local councillors need to raise with FCC/NCP on all of our behalves. I feel it's disgusting that our government doesn't put a cap on these unreasonable price hikes.

It's not enough that councellors listen to residents, and possibly put parking restrictions in surrounding roads, but they need to look at the bigger picture and look at the whole problem. Someone here said 'oh it's progress and we should just pay it and get on'. Well, NO - it's not progress, it's DAYLIGHT ROBBERY!

Everytime I've emailed FCC and complained about something all I get back is some sickening glib reply back.

Edited by Bob Horrocks to remove an obviously very rude word.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 19, 2009, 10:38:57 am
Surely this is something our local councillors need to raise with FCC/NCP on all of our behalves.

North Mymms Parish Council has raised this with FCC and Welwyn Hatfield Council, and copied to the traffic police.  FCC washed their hands of the problem.

WHC repied saying it is aware of the problem and will include Brookmans Park in its annual review in March.  The reply said that the police are aware of the situation and any genuine obstruction should be reported to the police.  Any imposition of parking restrictions will take time.

As an invigilator I have deleted an obviously naughty word from Birch's posting.  It is understandable to be angry but please watch your language.   :(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on January 20, 2009, 04:10:26 pm
I see from the leaflet handed out last week that the daily car park charge at Brookmans Park will be rising to £3 per day from 2.2.2009.

Potters Bar is rising to £5.30 per day.

I wonder if the increase will deter the drivers of both cars that regularly use the car park at Brookmans Park?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bobb on January 21, 2009, 03:03:18 pm
I was at home on Monday and simply could not believe the parking in Oaklands and Westlands. I don't normally see it as I leave before it gets parked up and am home after they have cleared off.

At the church inconsiderate and illegal parking was the order of the day. One muppet had parked right on the corner by the church with others parked directly opposite the junction. Some parking was clearly breaking the highway code and made life at best difficult at worst dangerous - it was in short an accident waiting to happen.

To be frank I can't believe the attitude of some - sling it where you like and sod the residents.

I will be asking if the police can ticket the clear breaches of the highway code.

And before the righteous posse jump in - I don't care if you don't use the car park - but I do care if illegal/inconsiderate parking causes accidents especially as my family are at risk.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on January 21, 2009, 06:32:23 pm
I have not witnessed these problems myself . How about uploading some pictures to raise the awareness of the other BP residents who don’t live in this street or engage in such anti-social motoring.

I will be asking if the police can ticket the clear breaches of the highway code.

To correct a common misconception - A breach of the code is not an offence
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on January 26, 2009, 11:12:41 pm
Has the idea been considered of having a parking ban on the relevant roads for just a couple of hours during the middle of the day, as is the case in Cuffley?  This doesn't involve resident permits or double yellows, but does stop commuter parking.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 27, 2009, 11:23:49 am
Good idea.  I will raise it at the parish council meeting on Wednesday as something to suggest to Welwyn Hatfield Council /Herts Highways.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on January 27, 2009, 12:43:05 pm
While you're there, Bob, could you ask for one in Holloways Lane as well, please?  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 27, 2009, 01:17:36 pm
I hope you haven't opened a can of worms here, Bob.

 :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on January 27, 2009, 08:47:35 pm
David, I was joking, but surely any resident of a road which is affected by commuter parking would be entitled to request such help?  This definitely includes Holloways Lane.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on January 27, 2009, 09:09:49 pm
Has the idea been considered of having a parking ban on the relevant roads for just a couple of hours during the middle of the day, as is the case in Cuffley?  This doesn't involve resident permits or double yellows, but does stop commuter parking.

I bet such a move would delight FCC and NCP.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 28, 2009, 09:45:57 pm
I'm sorry but I find it very disturbing that residents should be so shrill in their contempt for commuter parking.  :'( Admittedley some drivers could do with more consideration for others and for safety, but the proposed cures seem so over the top. All we need is for a few more yellow lines (double if necessary at the worst points), white lines with end markers for outside peoples driveways, then a regular visit from a parking person. Banning parking or having permits simply introduces cost, inconvenience and more bureaucratic control. Can the residents of Oaklands/Westland not understand that £3 a day is a lot of money on top of the extortionate rail fares? Yes, no-one really wants cars parked outside their houses all day but if the road is wide enough this should not be a valid reason to call the council in with their jack boots on. Perhaps prohibiting parking on one side only of each road would be the answer?

Don't forget, you may want to move away from the village centre one day (if the economy ever picks up.....) and then you will be glad to be able to park for free when catching your train. What goes around, comes around.

ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on January 29, 2009, 09:13:47 am
Parking was free before and the car park was near full most of the time.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 29, 2009, 11:23:02 am
I'm sorry but I find it very disturbing that residents should be so shrill in their contempt for commuter parking.  Perhaps prohibiting parking on one side only of each road would be the answer?
ATG


If ATG lived on Westland Drive and had a fire, he would not be amused if the fire engine could not get to his house because of the cars badly parked by commuters.  However, his idea of parking on one side might work.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on January 29, 2009, 01:01:32 pm

if the fire engine could not get to his house because of the cars badly parked by commuters.


As I have had it explained to me following a similar complaint I had with inconsiderate parking in South Hatfield,  the fire brigade wouldn't worry too much about damaging vehicles either if their passage was blocked. They have a hefty engine, a strong band of fire personnel and suitable equipment to force their way through. That would generally stop the person with the badly parked car doing it again!!

Having said that though, it would take valuable seconds and in a fire, seconds count.

Note: Edited only to fix quote box. David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on January 29, 2009, 07:14:44 pm
ATG - disturbing that we may want our road restored to how it has been for the 15yrs I've lived here??? IF the issue were just over one or two badly parked cars, it wouldn't be so bad - but it is MANY more. I live a good third down from the alley - commuters already park up to my door. So expanding yellow lines on the dangerous bend, will I think, just shift the inconsiderate parking further down the road.

Whilst I agree that £3 per day is a lot for parking, surely a parking cost should have been figured into commuter costs - and just be grateful that you have been lucky enough to have free parking for as long as you did.

The verges along Westland are being ripped to shreds (or mud!) as people try to pass other cars - I notice a few people have taken the 'law' into their own hands and placed big boulders on the verge to stop people traversing them and parking dangerously.

I agree that maybe the solution is a 'no parking' couple of hours a day - the road can then be left as a quiet residential road, rather than a car park
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 29, 2009, 08:42:30 pm
Just about everywhere else that has a mainline station and a paying car park has some sort of CPZ (eg Potters Bar, St Albans etc) so BP isn't really any different in experiencing problems with commuters.

Whilst commuters may baulk at £3 a day to park it is a lot cheaper than Potters Bar although I guess you have the benefit of a much better train service especially if going to Kings X.

The solution is either to introduce parking restrictions for say an hour a day (I seem to recall Billy Lowes Lane in PB works this way) or make parking free at the car park. As the latter is unlikely to happen it's inevitable that restrictions will come at some point in the future. Hopefully there can be some system that suits the residents, ideally making parking free at any time for cars registered in Westland Drive, Peplins Way or wherever the restrictions are introduced. Surely not beyond the council to enable this. Of course the council may want to charge residents for a permit which would be the worst solution.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on March 12, 2009, 02:53:26 pm
The parking situation since charges were introduced has obviously been causing a nightmare in surrounding streets. I use the station most days to go to Westminster and constantly note that only a few cars are parked in the newly marked out car park, with the remainder parked on the roads.

Previous explanations from First Capital Connect have been completely useless, with comments like "It's up to the local authority to enforce parking controls." Said in a way which makes it appear that the problem is completely unrelated to the new charges at the station.

As a result I arranged a meeting with the FCC Managing Director at Parliament yesterday and she has promised to take the parking issue away to study further. I believe that the price has already increased once in the very short time that the station car park has been chargeable!

There are also further updates relating to the amount of time that the Ticket Office will remain open at Brookmans Park here:
http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,4825.0.html

As well as a half pledge on fares and inflation!

Best wishes
Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: rickhudson on May 16, 2009, 08:57:05 am
I just wonder who has gained over the Station Car Park fiasco. Probably the local authoutiy who paid First Capital Connect for the lease. So as council tax payers we are all a tad better off in theory. I wonder if that lease was more or less than the money FCC/National Car Parks are collecting on the 10 cars a day in the car park especially net of expenses. I doubt it. But the real cost is the hidden one which arise from the street parking around the village which are more intangiable as they range from creating delays to simply annoyance  and frustration.
The Law of Unintended consequences is strongly at play.
It is in FCC/NCP's interest to joint the lobby to get parking restricitions impossed and force cars into the car park or elsewhere.
In the end I think it is probable that FCC are no better off but I suspect that  they could be taking a longer view on things but more likely they are so badly managed they don't know or don't care. Its great running a near monopoly service provider.!!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Gestapo on May 18, 2009, 05:43:13 pm
I just wonder who has gained over the Station Car Park fiasco. Probably the local authoutiy who paid First Capital Connect for the lease. So as council tax payers we are all a tad better off in theory. I wonder if that lease was more or less than the money FCC/National Car Parks are collecting on the 10 cars a day in the car park especially net of expenses. I doubt it. But the real cost is the hidden one which arise from the street parking around the village which are more intangiable as they range from creating delays to simply annoyance  and frustration.
The Law of Unintended consequences is strongly at play.
It is in FCC/NCP's interest to joint the lobby to get parking restricitions impossed and force cars into the car park or elsewhere.
In the end I think it is probable that FCC are no better off but I suspect that  they could be taking a longer view on things but more likely they are so badly managed they don't know or don't care. Its great running a near monopoly service provider.!!!!

Well Elaine has now departed from FCC as MD, and FCC have an acting MD for the time being.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on May 18, 2009, 09:59:16 pm
Not a rabid socialist but not sure why station car parks are not owned and run by the state, free for train users to park in. I am sure we would all rather pay for that than have a village full of cars while a private concern tries to make money from the car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on May 19, 2009, 05:25:59 pm
I noticed a short article in the newspaper yesterday citing parking charges at Birmingham at £55 for 4 hours parking.  :o

However, as usual the private rail companies and railtrack try and pass the buck (although obviously they earn revenue) by saying "Network Rail insisted it did not run the "vast majority of station car parks", so is not responsible. I've in the past been in contact with FCC and they use the same line - NCP run the car park and we're not responsible. But who employed them eh?

I bought new parking scratch cards from NCP and the lady on the phone was surprised that they were "really cheap" in comparison to other train stations. I pointed out 2 years ago it was even cheaper cos parking was free!  >:(

Not the thing to say to a commuter that already spends £2000 per annum on fares and was used to parking for free for years in a village in the middle of nowhere. Where painted white lines and no security, smashed glass on the floor which I've emailed FCC about 3 times to clear up now costs me. And now their stupid greed causes commuting misery. Need I go on....

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on May 19, 2009, 05:37:07 pm
I just wonder who has gained over the Station Car Park fiasco. Probably the local authoutiy who paid First Capital Connect for the lease. So as council tax payers we are all a tad better off in theory.

The question of ownership seems to have got a bit confused.

The truth is that the freehold of the car park is owned by Network Rail.  Originally it was leased to Hatfield Rural Council which in 1974 was absorbed into the newly created Welwyn Hatfield Council.  Network Rail increased the rent under the lease to £14,000 a year I think, and terminated the lease when Welwyn Hatfield Council refused to pay the increase.

Network Rail then leased the car park to the train operating company, now FCC.  Last year FCC employed NCP to run the car park which is when the story really began....  

In answer to Peter Hastings, Network Rail is officially not owned by the state.  A Government sleight of hand to keep the enormous cost off the Government's books.  It reminds me of Enron for some reason.   >:D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on July 16, 2009, 08:50:41 am
Here's some good news about Brookmans Park station car park:
http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.0.html

It involves an experiment that I've convinced First Capital Connect to try.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on July 16, 2009, 10:05:20 am
Grant,

Well done for getting the FCC and NCP management to look at the problem. How much of a reduction are they looking at 25%, 50% ?

However I suspect they have a medium term plan to entice people in before squeezing the price back up.

You may be their best marketing/salesman ever. Perhaps they will give you a position on the board. Only joking, we know David won’t allow that anymore.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 16, 2009, 11:12:09 am
Well done Grant. Applying some common sense is going to be a radical experiment so lets see how it works. I foresee a couple of problems now they have wrecked the situation-people who park in the village for nothign now may well continue and people who used to park in the station for nothing may see any price as too much. Also dont forget the price has gone up since it was first introduced so I hope they will just put it down to the original price.

Of course having to have your MP go cap in hand to a leader of a private enterprise does make you wonder if privatising the whole affair was a good idea in the first place. The only logical and socially acceptable scenario is to have a free car park as part of the subsidised rail service run for the public good.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on July 16, 2009, 12:05:02 pm
Well done Grant and thanks for your work to make this happen.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 16, 2009, 03:27:23 pm
First Capital Connect say they will monitor the situation during the reduced rate trial. The company says the exact price and duration are still being determined. A press officer for FCC says he pass on details when they are known.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on July 21, 2009, 02:33:26 pm
Well done Grant, but remember we also vote for you in Welham Green where the same situation has occured at the train station here ie. low station car park occupancy, cars being parked in surround roads. And statistically we're not as well off as those in BP so the cost hits us worse!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on July 21, 2009, 05:31:01 pm
Not that I necessarily wish to jump to Grant's defence here, as he clearly states, it is FCC that have decided to trial this at BP. Grant is the MP for Welwyn Hatfield, so cry could also go up from Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City & Welwyn North as well. I'm sure Grant has the concerns of all his constituents at heart and will know doubt keep FCC to their word!  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on July 22, 2009, 03:38:17 pm
If you read Grant's article he arranged to meet with FCC bosses to discuss the parking issue at BP and being that he's an MP he's got a bit of clout so they listened. When FCC started charging at WG and very shortly raised prices I sent several emails complaining about this to them, but effectively being a 'nobody', all I got back was irritating standard glib replies.

The parking has been an issue in WG long before BP and as part of the (I think) Lib Dem campaign at the local elections last year they said they would try and do something about this. It would be good if Grant can push for this at WG too. I know that people use the car park live not only in WG, but come in from London Colney, Colney Heath etc. Also like BP our car park historically was free for use of locals for parking - we're a small village not a large commuter town like Hatfield or Welwyn which has always had parking charges.

I think someone else mentioned the idea that perhaps if you hold a season ticket we should be entitled to free or reduced parking charges.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on July 23, 2009, 10:07:16 pm
If you read Grant's article he arranged to meet with FCC bosses to discuss the parking issue at BP and being that he's an MP he's got a bit of clout so they listened. When FCC started charging at WG and very shortly raised prices I sent several emails complaining about this to them, but effectively being a 'nobody', all I got back was irritating standard glib replies.

The parking has been an issue in WG long before BP and as part of the (I think) Lib Dem campaign at the local elections last year they said they would try and do something about this. It would be good if Grant can push for this at WG too. I know that people use the car park live not only in WG, but come in from London Colney, Colney Heath etc. Also like BP our car park historically was free for use of locals for parking - we're a small village not a large commuter town like Hatfield or Welwyn which has always had parking charges.

I think someone else mentioned the idea that perhaps if you hold a season ticket we should be entitled to free or reduced parking charges.

Hi folks, just to clarify the meeting wasn't specifically about Brookmans Park, but about a number of different issues related to the 5 FCC stations in Welwyn Hatfield. As many of you know I use the service almost every day and often go from or return to different stations depending on whether I have meetings before or after, so I do get to see what's happening first hand.

You'll notice in the the actual story I posted up here http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.0.html that I was actually meeting the MD at Welwyn North station, but with specific issues about most of the stations including Brookmans Park and Welham Green.  Since Brookmans Park has introduced charging most recently the case was more clear cut and so First Capital Connect offered to carry out the experiment here, but the implications would be the same for Welham Green, Welwyn North, WGC and Hatfield.

Incidentally, since that meeting I have been monitoring the situation at Brookmans Park station.  On average the occupancy rate is just 15 cars out of the 72 spaces - around 20% usage. There was an exception on the day the commercial was being filmed at Brookmans which resulted in what I imagine were the crew cars packing out the car park.

Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on July 30, 2009, 06:52:57 pm
Just got a letter from WHC looking to put parking restictions along Westland Drive and Oaklands Avenue.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/july09/parkingdetails.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/july09/parking2.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/july09/parking3.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/july09/parking5.jpg)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on July 30, 2009, 09:31:13 pm
FCC and NCP will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on July 30, 2009, 10:44:19 pm
Quote
Pros: Commuters will not be able to park

In which version of reality is it a benefit to deny commuters a parking space? I understand they wish to improve the parking situation for residences, but to see punishing commuters as a goal in itself is surly wrong.

What happened top Option 3: Leave things as they are and Option 4: Take the lease on the car park back?

Any bets that the final solution will involve fleecing more money of the already over taxed residences?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Greybeard on July 31, 2009, 07:52:22 am
And what about an option previously discussed here:

One side of the road no waiting for an hour or two in the morning

Other side of the road no waiting for an hour or two later in the day.

Advantages:

Residents and visitors never have to clear the road of parked vehicles

No residents' parking charges.

Disadvantages:

?

Not up to me to have an opinion as I won't be affected, but I do wonder why the council don't seem to have offered this option.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mike Hobday on July 31, 2009, 07:56:19 am
FCC and NCP will be rubbing their hands with glee.
Grant Shapps deserves a lot of credit for persuading FCC to reduce car parking prices at the station. An obvious decision, perhaps, when the car park is so empty, but it takes a lot to persuade FCC to listen.

So why are his party colleagues on the council seeking so actively to sabotage his efforts?

Mike
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on July 31, 2009, 08:58:56 am
And what about an option previously discussed here:

One side of the road no waiting for an hour or two in the morning

Other side of the road no waiting for an hour or two later in the day.

Advantages:

Residents and visitors never have to clear the road of parked vehicles

No residents' parking charges.

Disadvantages:

?

Not up to me to have an opinion as I won't be affected, but I do wonder why the council don't seem to have offered this option.


What a great idea, my thoughts entirely.


But I guess joined up thinking and user friendly options are way beyond the thoughts of WHC!



How much will all these yellow lines, distribution of permits and administration of paperwork cost the residents of W&H?

Not to mention the cost of the enforcement team who will be patrolling the roads  etc.


Let’s get real, what happened to free commuter parking? A service that should be part and parcel of the environmental infrastructure of modern day travel, will we have to pay to park our push bikes soon?

I work in London and Westminster Council drove the cars away by introducing the Congestion Charge, which is free for motors cycles, scooters and Mopeds etc. (including free parking)

Too many workers were taking advantage of this free service, so have introduced a charge to park your motor cycles. I rest my case!!


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on August 01, 2009, 03:10:25 pm
By coincidence it was the turn of Brookmans Park for my MP's Action Team today and we visited Westland, Oakland and Bluebridge Road, amongst others. We found that resident opinion is very much divided over which approach to solving the parking crisis might work best.

I've actively encouraged everyone that I've spoken to to complete the consultation in order to ensure that a properly balanced view is received by the council.

In the meantime, I have also let residents know about the First Capital Connect reduced rate parking trial which will shortly get underway. It seems to me that in order to provide the publicity required to ensure that drivers know that the price has been reduced, we may need to find some volunteers to leaflet the commuter cars which currently park in the residential streets.

Grant.

P.S. More on this issue here http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.msg43869.html#msg43869
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: hilarycarlen on August 01, 2009, 11:04:55 pm
Under the status quo, the sum of human happiness is a little reduced.  The commuters feel a little peeved because they no longer have access to the last free station carpark in the universe, and we residents of Westlands and Oaklands are a little peeved because we can’t always park right outside our houses.  

On the other hand, if these proposals go through, the sum of human happiness will be very greatly reduced.  The commuters will be extremely narked - (Oh lord, they'll have to park in the Gardens instead, even further from the station..)  The people in the Gardens will be narked, because the problem will move down to their end of the loop.  And we in Oaklands and Westlands (once we've got over our initial woop of dog-in-the-manger glee) will be ever so much more peeved than before, because we'll suddenly realise that the cure is actually rather worse than the disease.

1.    Under the “2 hours banned” option, we move from occasionally being unable to park outside our houses to ALWAYS being unable to park outside our houses.  We will have to remember to move our cars onto the drive before we go to work, and if we forget, we will be fined.   (I know I will regularly think of this at about 11am, when I’m stuck at work and the car is on the road, and there’ll be nothing I can do about it, and my day will be entirely spoilt).

2.   Longer term, it will seriously damage the look and feel of our streets.  If we introduce res-park charging, or restrictions on parking the car on the road all day, many people will do what they always do in this situation, and concrete over their front gardens -  replacing something which is pleasing on the eye and ecologically useful with something barren, damaging and ugly.  

3.   And this won’t in any way reduce the pressure on parking - If people concrete over their front gardens, they will want drop kerbs in front of the area concerned, and the current parking spaces on the road will in any case be lost – exchanging cars on the road for cars in gardens.

4.   Under the “res park only” approach, we are inviting the thin end of the wedge - yep, £15 this year, £30 next year, £60 the next ....   An endless excuse to extort money from us, and our visitors can’t park either.  

So why was there no "leave things as they are" option on the consultation????

(For the record...  Naturally, I wish the station car park was still free, and naturally I think it would be better for all concerned if the commuters walked from their home to the station instead of parking in my street....  Dream on.)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on August 02, 2009, 10:21:06 am
Surely the best solution is for residents to have FREE parking permits.

Surely we pay enough Council Tax already, all it would require is the minimal admin to make sure that any permits are issued only to cars that are registered at the Council Tax payers address.

Oaklands/Westlands residents can park as before and commuters should park in the car park. Ideally of course if joined-up thinking prevailed a season ticket should come with a free paking permit but that would definitely be too much to ask.

I fear though that all that will happen is that parking restrictions will be implemented and the problem will simply move to Peplins and Bradmore Way.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on August 02, 2009, 12:22:21 pm
Surely the best solution is for residents to have FREE parking permits.

Surely we pay enough Council Tax already, all it would require is the minimal admin to make sure that any permits are issued only to cars that are registered at the Council Tax payers address.

Oaklands/Westlands residents can park as before and commuters should park in the car park. Ideally of course if joined-up thinking prevailed a season ticket should come with a free paking permit but that would definitely be too much to ask.

I fear though that all that will happen is that parking restrictions will be implemented and the problem will simply move to Peplins and Bradmore Way.



You are correct and this time next year we will be having the same discussion about yellow lines and parking permits in Peplins and Bradmore Way etc.

Maybe this whole fiasco should have been discussed before the car park was sold to a profit making organisation, as I believe the land / car park was owned by the parish council or was it WHC. Can somebody please confirm, and what price was it was sold for?


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on August 02, 2009, 01:40:45 pm

P.S. More on this issue here http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.msg43869.html#msg43869


Dear Grant,

If you are going to post links to your fourm please ensure that the content the link leads to adds value to what is being debated here.  You posted a link with the words 'More on this issue', but the link you offered (at the time you posted) takes people to the same screen grabs of the same notice that is reproduced on this forum (thanks to ColinR) two days earlier (although you may have missed that) and to a repeat of the comments you have posted here.

Of course it is good to keep local residents informed, and as the local MP you are entitled to do that, but it's important cross posting adds value.

Thanks

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: steevey on August 02, 2009, 06:47:05 pm

Maybe im being very radical here but surely anyone who lives in Brookmans Park could easily just walk to the station.
It would save grant all that wasted time arguing for lazy commuters
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on August 02, 2009, 07:21:49 pm

Maybe im being very radical here but surely anyone who lives in Brookmans Park could easily just walk to the station.
It would save grant all that wasted time arguing for lazy commuters


Great Idea, I live  very close to the station, so no problem for me, but would you walk if you lived at the top (Great North Road) of Georges Wood or Pine Grove, and its November???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on August 02, 2009, 09:44:47 pm
Thank you Hilary for your well thought out post.

It is nice to know that at least one resident of Oaklands/Westland has a balanced view on the matter.

We are all residents of BP and have to get along together.

Just because we live more than an easy walk from the station doesn't mean we are aliens or sub-human.

Do we want ever more jack boots from the council controlling our lives?

But surely there was another option which was omitted from the letter from WHDC - why not just paint double yellows down one side only of the roads and white lines across peoples driveways on the other sides - no more problems of double parking and easy to "police".

Feel better now.

ATG

ps with regard to charging, we used to have a parking permit in another area, started at £5 admin fee, rose to £38 by the time we moved away.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 03, 2009, 11:42:26 am
Quote from: colinr link=topic=652.msg17908#msg17908 date=1249212141[/quote
I believe the land / car park was owned by the parish council or was it WHC. Can somebody please confirm, and what price was it was sold for?

A myth.  The car park has always been owned by the railway company (BR, now Network Rail).  It was leased to Hatfield Rural Council which merged into Welwyn Hatfield Council in the 1970s re-organisation of local authorities.  The annual lease rent was increased by a huge amount some years ago so WHC decided it could not afford this subsidy and gave up the lease.  It is now leased by FCC and managed by National Car Parks who have made the 'improvements' and started charging.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Oly on August 03, 2009, 01:51:22 pm
I know this may not sound feasable in the current situation but can the following be done;
A. WHC to buy the carpark from Network Rail and then scrap the charges, this will reduce commuter parking around the village.
B. If the plan for green close flats fails again, put a carpark there. You would need to buy the land from the owner but surley it would be cheaper in the long run. Purchasing could either be WHC or the residents association and pay so much a year to park there but at a reduced cost.

The thing that strikes me about all train station carparks now is that, NR own them, a carpaking firm runs it and they make money.
If the money they got from the carparks went into infastructure on the railways they could improve services at last but from what they make I cannot see how they can justify their extortionate charges. I thought parking tickets were bad, now you have to pay to park your car and have it vandalised/broken into when as before it was free......
Next step they will be charging for bycycles to be parked, mobility scooters next and finally walking!!! ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 03, 2009, 05:56:49 pm
Nice bit of lateral thinking but either or both plots of land would be too expensive for either local residents or WHC.  

The Green Close land must have been very expensive for the new owner to keep trying to get 14 flats on it.  At 55 per hectare this is a hugely bigger density (number of units per hectare = 2.47 acres) than even the sorely missed     ( >:D or should it be  :icon_jokercolor:) John Prescott deemed acceptable which was a range of 30 to 50 per hectare.  Brookmans Park was designed to be low density 'village' settlement.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Oly on August 04, 2009, 09:31:23 pm
I like your post Bob, perhaps we should change the brookmans park listing on wikipedia to include the car park charges and having a somewhat mis-designed station......  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nick Lees on August 08, 2009, 11:20:37 am
Has anyone done a land registry search on the station car park land to establish 100% who owns it?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on August 08, 2009, 09:14:50 pm
Has anyone done a land registry search on the station car park land to establish 100% who owns it?

That would cost at least £3 and it might not be registered land anyway.

ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 12, 2009, 02:25:08 pm
Has anyone done a land registry search on the station car park land to establish 100% who owns it?

I did and the land is unregistered.  It is 100% owned by Network Rail.  Because it has not changed ownership or had a legal charge etc, there has been no need to register ownership to date.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on August 12, 2009, 05:29:52 pm
Just a thought, what about “free” residents parking permits?

 
If you live in Westlands, Oaklands or The Gardens and contributes to the community charge, how about a free permit to park in an allotted bay in the road, and if WHC feel extra generous they can provide a free visitors permit as well.

How about it WHC give something back to your customers.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on August 12, 2009, 06:49:32 pm

How about it WHC give something back to your customers.


Rather than penalise them for being a captive audience
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on August 17, 2009, 08:17:14 pm
Here's another area our councillors seem to be oddly quiet. John Dean is the leader of the council, but does he have any leadership to offer in this area? This issue is causing problems for the commuters and problems for the residents, neither of which caused this issue, but I doubt the Deans use the station and I imagine Mr Boulton  walks to the station, so do they care? I find it strange they have nothing to offer while their council's only idea is to tax the residences or further inconvenience the commuter or both.

As a slightly off different idea, why not block the ally between Oaklands Avenue and Station Close. This would reduce the desirability of the top of Oaklands Avenue and Westland Drive as a place to park. Some of these cars would park on Bluebridge Road, south of the URC. This would reduce the problem on the Oaklands Avenue and Westland Drive, while the cars parked on Bluebridge Road would tend to slow down the traffic. It wouldn't give the council a new way to raise taxes, but you can't have everything.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on August 17, 2009, 08:20:38 pm
I think you will find Mr Boulton wrote as a borough councillor on this as did the Parish Council and indeed Grant Shapps. We all got pretty much the same response the gist of which is it is a commercial enterprise and they can do as they like. As you know Grant has made some headway after a meeting and we will see.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on August 21, 2009, 09:49:44 pm
That is a beginning, but does it have to be an end too?

The car park owner and operator have no reason to respond in any other way. They are holding the commuters and through them, the residents to ransom. They know, sooner or latter, the council will bring in parking restrictions. This will inconvenience commuter and resident alike, cost both money, but will mean profits for the car park owners. And the council, with its limited imagination, is looks to be doing exactly what they want.

Really it comes down to imagination, initiative and leadership. What are our councillors, our representatives,  doing to represent us? How are they improving Brookmans Park?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 03, 2009, 02:59:56 pm
The latest update on the subject of charging at Brookmans Park Station and the experiment in lower costs:

http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.msg44945.html#msg44945

Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on September 03, 2009, 06:33:07 pm
" We have always been keen to find opportunities to resolve this situation.  Although we believe that parking at these stations represents excellent value, it has been a difficult customer message as the charge unfortunately coincided with the economic downturn. We will continue to monitor this situation and look forward to assessing the impact the reduction has and I will get back to you following the trial.

Yours sincerely

Jim Morgan

Managing Director
First Capital Connect"


I really find this comment  ( taken from Grant Shapps forum site) from Mr Morgan ironic due to the fact it is his policy that has created turmoil in the community. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on September 08, 2009, 08:47:57 am
Well - I've just used the text service to pay for 4 days parking and was charged £3 per day and a 30p admin charge on top.  £12.30 for 4 days. Not quite the £2 per day I expected...

Hmmm... am I missing something...?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 08, 2009, 11:31:44 am
Well - I've just used the text service to pay for 4 days parking and was charged £3 per day and a 30p admin charge on top.  £12.30 for 4 days. Not quite the £2 per day I expected...

Hmmm... am I missing something...?   

Right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, is my guess.

Write a letter of complaint to the FCC Managing Director, copy Grant Shapps and WH Times, together with a photcopy of your ticket or whatever evidence you have.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 08, 2009, 01:32:35 pm
The other new 'innovation' is to charge more for some premium spaces which would mean walking say 20 to 40 feet less when parking your car. Unsurprisingly these spaces are completely empty.

This link shows today's picture of car park:
http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,5321.msg45069.html#msg45069

Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 08, 2009, 02:18:51 pm
Dear Grant,

You can upload images to this forum too. Just click on additional option and add the picture. This will save people having to click a link to your forum each time you want to draw attention to an issue.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on September 08, 2009, 07:39:27 pm
I had the same issue with the difference in fees. NCP are now aware and following a phone call to them on Monday morning they agreed to refund my overcharging with free parking sessions. It turns out that Verrus.com who run the automated system, were not notified of the change in time.
NCP were, to be honest, most helpful.  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 09, 2009, 09:39:38 am
I had the same issue with the difference in fees. NCP are now aware and following a phone call to them on Monday morning they agreed to refund my overcharging with free parking sessions. It turns out that Verrus.com who run the automated system, were not notified of the change in time.
NCP were, to be honest, most helpful.  ;D

NCP have apologised and posted about this Brookmans Park overcharging problem http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,4863.msg45088.html#msg45088

And have provided a method for getting a refund if you were overcharged via the same link.

Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on September 09, 2009, 01:19:30 pm
NCP have been very efficient in contacting me and arranging reimbursement.

However, I notice that the car park is still far from full. I suggest this could be for 2 reasons;

1. The people parking around the village (and not in the car park) have not seen the reduced charges on the sign in the car park, and don't know about the reduction.
and/or
2. The amount is still too much, circa £40 per month.

To solve 1, could a communication campaign be run, to advise all users of the station that the car park charges have been reduced, and to encourage them and their cars away from blocking the village and back into the car park.

To solve 2, to reduce the cost further to the customer. Could the Council now subsidise part or all of the £2 daily charge?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on September 09, 2009, 03:49:09 pm
Could the Council now subsidise part or all of the £2 daily charge?

Can't see why the council would do this - I thought the reason that the council stopped leasing the car park was because it was too expensive. (See Dave's post, 23rd Dec) Seeing as NCP will still want to make a profit I can't see how this would not be more expensive than before.



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on September 10, 2009, 07:52:59 am
Thats really a question for the tax payers. Do they really want all to pay a private body to make money on the car park when the people who use the car park dont want to do so?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on September 10, 2009, 01:04:27 pm
Someone(s) in the Council decided that the cost of leasing the car park was too much, so they released the lease and pay nothing.

This caused inconvenience to many of the rail commuters in Brookmans Park as they didn't want to pay for parking when it has been free for so many years and they can park for "free" in local roads.

Because of this, their street parking now blocks many of the local roads near the station - much to the annoyance and danger to the residents that live there.

So - in saving the cost of the lease, the council have caused two sets of problems, as outlined above.

To force the commuters to pay to park, the council will probably have to install additional parking restrictions around the village... this will cost the council to set up (money well spent?), and will probably impact the local residents as they will also be bound by these restrictions.

So, all in all the council made a blunder - upset commuters and local residents, and probably will end up spending a load of money to force commuters to use the car park and to pay too.

I am suggesting that having made this blunder,  the council look to find an arrangement with NCP/FCC so  that parking becomes cheap/free in Brookmans Park again. Rather than the council spending money on parking restrictions that will force the commuters to pay up maybe a compromise can be made.  Maybe a poll of the commuters, to determine what they would pay would be useful. Who knows...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: red sox on September 10, 2009, 09:22:00 pm
Hi I never reply to these things, but this has really started to get to me! 

Brookmans park station is alway empty, and people have now decided to park down Peplins, not that I would normally mind this but they dont seem to park without considering the needs of the residents. Quite often I return home with half a car over my driveway because they can't be bothered to walk an extra 50 yards.

So not only do we have to content with the school traffic (some consideration wouldn't go amiss from these ladies either!) but we have the commuters that are now forced away from the car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 11, 2009, 10:47:22 am
I am suggesting that ..........the council look to find an arrangement with NCP/FCC so  that parking becomes cheap/free in Brookmans Park again.

Sounds good in theory but in practice Welwyn Hatfield Council would have to do the same for every station car park in the whole of the borough in order to treat all Council Tax payers equally.  This is not just a problem at Brookmans Park.

The Parish Council cannot afford to fund a subsidy.  To subsidise 70 car spaces at £1 a day for 5 days a week would cost over £18,000 a year.  Even if it could be afforded, the Parish Council would also have to subsidise the Welham Green station car park which is causing problems of parked cars on Holloways Lane adding about £10,000 a year to the bill.  In reality it would be subsidising non-residents of North Mymms since the car parkers most likely come from outside North Mymms.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on September 11, 2009, 11:22:21 am


Sounds good in theory but in practice Welwyn Hatfield Council would have to do the same for every station car park in the whole of the borough in order to treat all Council Tax payers equally.  This is not just a problem at Brookmans Park.
 

What you say is true, Bob.  I wonder how they justified paying the lease on the car park in previous years.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 11, 2009, 05:09:44 pm
I think it was a fairly nominal annual rent.  When it was proposed to increase it to £14,000 in what I believe was the 1970s or 80s that was when the council drew the line.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: loopy_loo on September 20, 2009, 09:03:16 pm
As I understand the land is owned by Network Rail but when the car park was orignally built in the early 70's the local council paid - the construction of the car park was not with Network rail funds but from tax payers - this was to allow additional parking for both commuters and for shoppers, however the latter never really caught on but permitted council funding.
So the council funded a car park to be built on land they did not own, rent it back and when the lease expired and charges hiked, the council ducked and Network Rail passed this onto NCP with the outcome we now have - of course local residents are up in arms, commuters will not accept charges and the outcome of local restrictions on parking being considered.  The losers - commuters who are charged and residents with parking restrictions, the winners NCP in the long term (and I am sure they rely on the above residents parking restrictions to ensure they have a 'captive audience') and Network Rail (owing to the increased rent they receive). 
Therefore ,imho, the root cause as highlighted is the passing of the rent increase by the the council without consultation to the community who 'paid' for this originally but were consulted when the car park was originally built. 

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Susan on October 09, 2009, 10:59:21 am
I parked outside the Co-op yesterday, square inside the white lines. When I returned, I realised that someone had parked really close to my car, so I couldn't open the driver's door (and I've not got a wide car!).  :o Then I noticed that the driver was still in her car, clambering over her passenger seat. As she emerged, I politely asked her to move so that I could get into the car.

She glowered at me and said, "Why can't you get in on the passenger side. I had to."

I explained that she'd chosen to park so she couldn't get out. I hadn't! She said that her parking was fine, "Well I'm in the white lines!" (Did she mean ON the lines?)

I persisted, and she said, "You’re just making a fuss now! Just get in on the passenger side."

She did eventually struggle back into the driver's seat, and move over - to the other side of the parking space (!) and I thanked her.  ::) 

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 09, 2009, 03:52:02 pm
Susan
I too have had the same happen to me

I put it down to the fact that some people are not in control of their vehicle because their vehicle is controlling them.

They can’t park they do not use indicators and they are in the wrong lane when entering / exiting a roundabout, and for good measure they slam their door into your car and suggest that you are the culprit and its your fault

Unfortunately any monkey can pass a driving test, but manners  and common scene  are not part of the curriculum.

Keep smiling otherwise you will turn into a grumpy old person, like some of the users of the forum......NO ,BUT NOT ME !! :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 09, 2009, 04:37:10 pm
And there are too many vehicles that are inappropriate for the Brookmans Park. I guess the parking spaces were painted based on the dimensions of an average car rather than the vehicles that are driven around the village today. We either need bigger parking spaces or smaller vehicles.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 09, 2009, 04:51:03 pm
Susan,

Similar situation to me as well. One way I have dealt with this is to open the door and "knock" the other persons car - not violently, but enough for them to jump out the car and start to have words. Then I have my say in no uncertain manner !!.

Impolite drivers are all around us. Years ago, I used to be polite and have road manners, but to no avail. The worse types for me were the "hoity toity" set  - you know, the 4 x 4, peroxide blonde with manicured fingernails and kids in the back going off to school. I usd to allow them onto the main roads from their sidestreets when queues were abound, but today no longer. Never a wave of thank you, or anything likewise - usually a "look down on you" type glance. Today, I no longer let them through - I love to see them in frustration as I stare at them whilst have left no gap.

Unfortunatetly, thats the way it is.     
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on October 09, 2009, 06:36:52 pm
I come across bad impolite drivers all the time, alot of them Oap's in very small cars who cant drive or park properly, and Royal Mail vans who double park outside the post office at school pick up time, I find the best!  relax about it its not worth getting upset about.  PS - is it just the bleached blond 4x4 drivers who dont thank you or all of them!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 09, 2009, 07:09:10 pm
Flw 67- usually its the peroxides that are the worst. I guess they think of themselves as superior being in their [mortgaged no doubt] 4 x 4's. Being elevated to a higher level in their vehicles has probably got to their heads.

However, generally speaking, other drivers in less pretentious vehicles, seem reasonably sound, with at least some road manners. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Susan on October 09, 2009, 07:51:47 pm
Well, in my case, the driver was a bleached blonde, but in a small car  ;)

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 09, 2009, 09:06:01 pm
For car park rage, watch this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wFx4Ff3aNFc&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wFx4Ff3aNFc&feature=related)

ATG
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on October 09, 2009, 10:16:06 pm
my one had a 20 year old car and blue rinse
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on October 10, 2009, 09:26:25 am
Well my posts were tounge in cheek, unfortunately the rest of you all sound a bit mad!!

Getting back to the original point the spaces outside the co-op are a bit on the small side. PS what can do you drive -want to make sure I never park next  to you !
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on October 10, 2009, 09:45:38 am
David, I really think this thread needs moderating - it's ageist, blondist, OAPist, small-car-driverist, blue-rinseist, and Post-Office vanist.   Leave in the 4 x 4 ism - that's perfectly reasonable  ;)

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on October 10, 2009, 10:15:45 am
Oh, forgot the sexism.  :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 10, 2009, 11:10:58 am
Flw67 - so long as you behave and have reasonable road manners, you'll be ok with me. I'll keep the car I drive a secret, just to keep you on your toes. I'lll be watching you !!
Chkn legs - forget the "...isms" and all the PC. I say it as I see it.

Now I need to pop down to the Co-op for a newspaper. Beware !!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 11, 2009, 02:16:01 pm
The headmaster at Chancelllor's School has been asked by the community police team to ask parents to park more considerately and "to respect the residents of Brookmans Park." It follows complaints about parking along Pine Grove and Brookmans Avenue. The issue is raised in the latest neighbourhood watch newsletter (October 2009).
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 12:10:47 am
Had another example of bad parking today at the Co-Op. Slightly different to before, but she parked as I had parked but a minute or so later, before I had time to get out of the car. This meant I couldn't get out from the drivers end. I was furious and ready to have strong words but I then recognised that it was an old dear who had done this dastardly deed.

I got out the other side through the passenger seat, knocked on her window and very politely asked her to remove back her car, and park again properly, to which she obliged with no trouble. It made my day !!

A bad parker she was, but age and co-operation saved the day for her.

I suppose it goes to show that if you point out the issues to people politely, it can sometimes work.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 14, 2009, 12:43:44 am
If it was me PS, I would have blocked you in....and would dearly have loved you to bang on my window!  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 12:47:03 am
Assuming you aren't an old dear, I'd would have had my hand THROUGH the window!! 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 14, 2009, 01:07:49 am
PS - I presume that would be to help me out of my car!  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 01:11:13 am
Never to return I hasten to add. :-*
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 14, 2009, 04:12:39 am
PS - Wasn't quite the way I saw it!  :icon_scratch: Come on...you'd miss me!!

In all seriousness, what gets my goat even more than impolite bad parkers is people hesitating on roundabouts.
They don't know when to indicate, or simply don't indicate..so you've got no idea where they're going!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 14, 2009, 05:57:24 am
Perhaps we just need the lines repainted outside the co-op to reflect the size of the vehicles using the spaces. One or two of the parking slots would probably be lost, but the problem of being unable to open the door might go away.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on October 14, 2009, 07:38:06 am
I agree with Dave on this and it is exactly the kind of local problem with a 'easy' solution which could feature in the North Mymms Parish Plan. After the drop-in meetings in the summer, a Parish Plan questionnaire is being prepared which will be sent to all households in North Mymms. One of the sections features roads and pavements and as well as the tick boxes to answer the questions, there will be room to write your own ideas.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 14, 2009, 10:12:28 am
Oh and another thing......

To all the people who park on the yellow line outside the Fish and Chip shop, opposite the Co op

Please be aware that it can be a bit of a pain to reverse out of the Co op space, as your vehicle is blocking / narrowing the road and  it can be a little difficult to see oncoming traffic as one is trying not to dent the offending vehicles

But I guess you don’t give a tinkers cuss when it comes to parking as near as possible to a hot bag of chips......
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 10:32:07 am
David - a very sensible idea to widen the white lines. As you say, there may be the one or two spaces lost, but you could make a space or two a "maximum of 10 minutes" [or however long] to prevent people parking for hours and facilitate easier access to many drivers. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on October 14, 2009, 11:18:59 am
Hate to put a dampener on a good idea.    We have bigger spaces and (and a lot of big cars too), but they still cannot manage to park properly.    As I look out of the window of my office in Abu Dhabi I can see some of the worst parking ever.   And if you think anyone is going to stop to let you manoeuvre in and out of a parking space.... in your dreams.

Mary
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 11:44:46 am
Mary Morgan - I hear what you say. But then its up to us to set an example. If I was to find that anyone was badly parked in a wider space, then believe me, I would wait for them and then publicly embarass and humiliate them. That may get them to think twice next time round.

If I found time was not on my side, I would stick an A4 printed notice with superglue onto the offending persons front windscreen, reminding them of Road Courtesy. A friend of mine does just that, and has a stack of them in his car - to cover a number of eventualities. He tells me, that its a great stress buster too !!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 14, 2009, 12:05:17 pm
Hello Mary - I was in Dubai recently and couldn't believe the way they drive let alone park. My wife and I caught a taxi from one side of the city to the other and we must have been going 120 miles per hour...it was a real white knuckle ride....and Ferrari's and other sports cars were coming past us as if we were standing still. The taxi driver kept smiling and called himself Schumacher - unbelievable.  :o It was like being in the Grand Prix!

PS - I'm going to start calling you the Keyboard Commando!  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Susan on October 14, 2009, 01:57:42 pm
Yes, larger spaces would be much better. I'm not sure how people in 4x4s (or other wide cars) manage, as it must be a tight squeeze.

Not sure what you would suggest to cure the rudeness I originally complained about, though.  ;D

(And there was no-one parked in the space on her other side, so I don't think a larger space would have made much difference in that case!)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on October 14, 2009, 03:54:15 pm
PS - what a charming man you sound!! , thank goodness you dont live here for most of the year.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 05:00:14 pm
flw67 - with the continual declining state of the UK, thank goodness I don't either !!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on October 14, 2009, 09:03:02 pm
flw67 - If PS carries on like he says he does, it's only a matter of time before he gets ko'd or arrested. Sticking A4 paper on to a window screen is a criminal offence, but thankfully, I don't think all his talk, words and action go much further than the keyboard.  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 14, 2009, 09:33:19 pm
Stevea - I am certainly no criminal nor have I any record of any sort. If I did, I'd have some explaining to do to my professional body.

I have, however, been pretty close to the edge, and have certainly put my penneth's worth in a number of situations !! I know how far to go, and thats why I will not be caught out - but I will continue to humilate or embarass guilty parties to the limit. To my knowledge, that, believe it or not, is still not a crime in the UK.

[If it was, then of course, they'd have to catch me before I take a flight out again !!!]
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 19, 2009, 12:06:05 pm
I think the problem outside the COOP, where parking does seem to be very bad, is that many people park there intending to "back in 10 minutes." Frequently there are away longer and when you are sitting waiting for them to comeback ten minutes seems a long time indeed. Especially if you are in a rush yourself. Painting larger spaces will not change this.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on October 19, 2009, 06:28:32 pm
I particularly like watching delivery times with the CoOp arctic having to move back & forth to let drivers out as he tries to deliver. He really is in a no win situation whatever time he arrives. Some people though are plain rude and I'm sure at times this must affect the 'professional demeanor of the driver' !! :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: saffie on October 22, 2009, 12:28:31 pm
I discussed the above new plan with the lady delivering the letters today.  She said that as the responce had not been good that the plan issued today is what they are going to go ahead on depending on objections once the formal notices go up. 

All this will do is push the traffic further and further down Oaklands and Westland gardens.

A resident parking scheme would seem to sort out this problem a lot easier as only the people that have a car parked on the street would have to purchase one, thus leaving others unaffected and stopping the commuter problem.

What are peoples views, as the scheme put through our doors today will just seem to cause more problems and will not bring resoultion as surely the residents further down these roads will start complaining and this whole process will start again.

I would also like to complain now that I am on here about the very aggresive letter that was put through my door a couple of weeks ago about these proposals, if whoever this was is going to stick such aggressive and confrontational letters through peoples letterboxes at least have the courage to put a name and contact number.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on October 22, 2009, 02:54:19 pm
Hello Saffie, would you be able to post a copy of the plan on the website for us all to see?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: LongTallSally on October 22, 2009, 03:11:39 pm
Sorry, saffie, to hear you received such an obnoxious letter. Clearly from someone who is aggressive and a coward.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on October 22, 2009, 06:36:00 pm
The aggressive letter put through letter boxes a few weeks ago, was from a lady in the Gardens (can we assume that her actions have caused the revision in the restrictions, which will cause people like Saffie to have problems).

I feel sure that the new restrictions will push the parking regulations further down - and probably cause an access problem on the bend with the Gardens - maybe the lady who sent the aggressive letter will revise her thoughts on the matter when she finds that the refuse collectors can't get through, and (more importantly) the emergency services can't either.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 22, 2009, 07:33:51 pm
mannyd - what were the contents of the aggressive letter that you received ?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on October 22, 2009, 08:37:41 pm
I threw it in the bin so can't give you exact!! But it enclosed an amended form to be sent back to the Council stating you wished to retract your earlier vote on the parking. The wording was very forceful on the front - pointing out all the obvious about not being able to park outside your house 24/7 etc ... in my mind completely over-reactionary and scaremongering. I know I wasn't the only one who thought that way....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Albert Ross on October 23, 2009, 03:04:31 pm
I too felt the same way about the aggressive letter and thought it only worthy of recycling (may still be in my paper recycling box). I assumed it was from a commuter who would be inconvenienced by parking restrictions and not from a local. I totally disagree with the latest proposal for the same reasons already stated that it would just move the problem further down the road. Who dreams these things up in the highways department as being a solution? I will certainly send a letter of objection.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sprint on October 23, 2009, 05:44:36 pm
I think you’ll find that the aggressive letter came from the house in The Gardens with multiple cars. (I’m not allowed to state the number as it identifies the individual). There was also a letter went around a few weeks before (not so aggressive and signed) from another house in The Gardens with multiple cars. The devil in me says I should protest bitterly and insist that The Gardens be included as was originally suggested. It would be lovely if a few more people in The Gardens were allowed to have friends visit and park near their houses. However, I’m afraid I do agree with much of the sentiment if not the tone of the letter.

I’ve heard that having yellow lines outside your house (even if just for an hour a day) can devalue it by 5-10% (perhaps any estate agents out there could confirm or deny this). Whilst I feel desperately sorry for the people who live at the north end of Oaklands and Westlands, I don’t see why this means everyone in the locality has to suffer. It also seems to me that the problem has certainly decreased in recent weeks, with far fewer cars being parked there all day.

Personally I think that the notification that came around this week with yellow lines only on part of Oaklands and Westlands is probably the best option (if there has to be some form of restriction). Of course it will move the problem further south along the roads, but as the majority of the people parking are Brookmans Park residents anyway, it won’t be long before they are actually parking further away then where they live.

Of course there is another option. Encourage the commuters to park along Bluebridge road. As far as I can tell there are no parking restrictions and it would certainly stop the speeding traffic.
 ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 23, 2009, 06:00:45 pm
The idea of slowing the traffic on Bluebridge Road has a lot to recommend it. Maybe the yellow lines north of the URC should be removed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nick Lees on October 24, 2009, 04:06:28 pm
Below is a letter I have sent to North Mymms Parish Council and WHDC which would solve all the problems for a very little expense to all the householders in the NMPC - if you agree with this please email:  

northmymmspc AT waitrose.com;r.rehman AT welhat.gov.uk ; b.jewell AT welhat.gov.uk ; m.saminaden AT welhat.gov.uk ; m.donohoe AT welhat.gov.uk

(you can copy and paste this) (Altered by Moderator to avoid Spam problems)

This obviously depends on FCC not being greedy and accepting a figure similar to the very small  NET amount they are making at the moment - I will endeavour to obtain the email of the appropriate person at FCC and let you know.



Dear All

I have had a very good idea of how to solve all the above problems - I sincerely hope you agree:

If someone can have some robust negotiations with First Capital Connect (FCC) to bring down their charge to once again lease out the car park to the council to a minimum,  strongly emphasising the following points:

1.The amount they are making from Brookmans Park station car park is minimal - average £30 per day (15 cars).
 
2.The number of cars using the car park would decrease if the charge was increased.
 
3.If NMPC / WHDC was running the car park FCC would have no outlay and would recieve all the lease money rather than having to pay NCP to run the car park - so the net amount FCC receive is what should be taken into account. (Hopefully FCC do not have a long term contract with NCP for BP station car park).[/b] then the situation can return to how it was (i.e. free parking) and Brookmans Park can remain as a village and not be like the centre of London.
 
This can be paid for by NMPC / WHDC increasing their tax a minimal amount as below:
EXAMPLE

I have assumed the % NCP take, the average cars per day has been monitered by Grant Shapps and number of homes in NMPC was provided by NMPC.

Average of 15 cars per day: 15 x £2 x 7 x 52 = £10920

say NCP get 50% (?) of this = £5460


FCC get £5460 per year


NMPC pay FCC £5460 per year - money obtained from increase in North Mymms Parish Council tax

cost per person in NMPC  = £5460 / 11000  = £0.50 per household per year - car park free again - all parking problems solved!


 
Taking all the above into account there is no way FCC can justify charging NMPC £25-50k to lease the car park.
Even if it did end up costing NMPC £25000 per year (which it certainly should'nt), assuming 11000 tax payers - it's still only £2.27 per household per year.

Obviously as the amounts are so small the same can be done with Welham Green station car park.

I have put this proposal to Grant shapps and I believe he has already written to the NMPC.

May I suggest that money is not wasted in implementing the parking restrictions in Oaklands and Westland until this is seriously looked into.

I sincerely hope that everyone involved will do everything they can to make this work.

Thankyou for your time.

Yours faithfully

Nicholas Lees

07932 614977

nslees AT sky.com

Email addresses altered by Moderator to avoid spammers
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on October 24, 2009, 06:54:53 pm
Quote
Taking all the above into account there is no way FCC can justify charging NMPC £25-50k to lease the car park.
Even if it did end up costing NMPC £25000 per year (which it certainly should'nt), assuming 11000 tax payers - it's still only £2.27 per household per year.

Thats STILL a further £2.27 per householder per annum on top of ever rising council tax bills - whilst a lot of people have wages frozen - if they fortunate enough to earn money in the current recession !!!

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on October 25, 2009, 10:07:01 pm
There were a couple of key points missed out from the excellent letter by Nick Lees

a) The costs of running the car park were not directly included in his calculation. I'm not sure exactly the quantum of these costs, but I'm willing to guess that the maintenance of the kit plus the need to police the car park will outweigh any revenue that FCC/NCP are now seeing and

b) The Council used to pay FCC £10,000 to keep the carpark free. I'd suggest that there is some spare cash to help fund a solution.

I do think that it would be useful to get the local community to work together to fight FCC/NCP & get the carpark full again. It doesn't work for anyone currently. I think putting yellow lines down is too easy & the wrong way to go. Working individually isn't going to be effective; anyone up for a community meeting over the next few weeks???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 26, 2009, 07:18:45 am

I do think that it would be useful to get the local community to work together to fight FCC/NCP & get the carpark full again. It doesn't work for anyone currently. I think putting yellow lines down is too easy & the wrong way to go. Working individually isn't going to be effective; anyone up for a community meeting over the next few weeks???


Does anyone think Saf's suggestion of a community meeting on parking would be helpful?

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on October 26, 2009, 07:51:36 am
Yes   :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on October 26, 2009, 08:11:35 am
Good idea in principle. I think the problem is this matter has already been addressed by the Parish Council and our MP. The company is well aware of the strength of local feeling and they have reduced prices again in response to a meeting with the MP. Their view is they can do what they like.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 26, 2009, 08:35:43 am
Hi Peter,

Not sure whether I am summarising what Saf meant, but I understood he was suggesting a community meeting of residents affected, both those living in the area and those who need to park. I realise the local authority and our MP have been involved, but the problem still remains, and I took this as a call to encourage the community to work together to prevent the imposition of measure that may just make matters worse.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 26, 2009, 12:28:03 pm
This proposal will be discussed at the next Parish Council meeting.

Just to add to, or correct, a few points:

Payment of £5,460 a year to FCC would add about 3% onto the Parish Council's precept of £177,250 (the amount of money raised by the parish council as part of your Council Tax bill).  If FCC required £25,000 a year, that would add about 14% onto the precept for this one item alone which is totally unacceptable.  

For comparison, the 2009/10 precept was an increase of 1% despite the biggest expense - staff costs - having risen by more than that.

The figures confuse population with the number of households.  Council Tax is paid per household, which is about 3,600 and not the population which is about 11,000.

The Parish Council (NMPC) never leased the car park.  It was Hatfield Rural Council, now Welwyn Hatfield Council, so NMPC has no spare cash to pay FCC.

If NMPC took this action over the Brookmans Park station car park then it would have to do the same for the Welham Green station car park.  Does anyone know how many cars use that one?

If the car park was free then there would be little or no cost for running it for some time since it was refurbished just before the charges were imposed.  A contingency fund would have to be set up to pay for maintenance, just as the parish council builds up reserves for property maintenance and replacement of the tractors, pick-up, etc.

The contract with NCP may have a penalty clause if the contract is terminated early.

How many users of this car park are residents of North Mymms parish?  If NMPC paid FCC to lease the car park it will most likely subsidise non-residents, although it would benefit residents by shifting the cars back into the car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on October 28, 2009, 06:25:58 am
I'm pleased that there is support for a community meeting. I think that the opportunity to gain a local consensus will enable us to work together as a community to preserve what we have in village and to avoid divisions in the community.

Did I understand from Bob that the proposal for the meeting will be discussed at the next Parish Council meeting? If so would it be possible to attend? I think that the agenda, who & how the community meeting is run will be critical to the meeting achieving its goal.

I am also meeting with Grant on 20/11 to discuss the matter.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on October 29, 2009, 04:46:59 pm
Taking all the above into account there is no way FCC can justify charging NMPC £25-50k to lease the car park.
Even if it did end up costing NMPC £25000 per year (which it certainly should'nt), assuming 11000 tax payers - it's still only £2.27 per household per year.

Obviously as the amounts are so small the same can be done with Welham Green station car park.


Speaking as someone who lives in Little Heath (and therefore pays a proportion my council tax to NMPC) I wouldn't be too impressed if these charges were added on to my council tax bill.

I have never and will never use the car parks at either BP or WG so don't really see why I should be expected to pay for them.

Whilst I sympathise with the residents of the roads affected by the bad parking I don't see how asking everyone to pay for the few who use the station car parks can be seen as fair?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on October 29, 2009, 10:34:27 pm
I don't drive, so it's unlikely i will ever need the station car park. I also don't expect any time in my life to use the play equipment at Welham Green that the council has provided recently. Following your logic, does that mean I should refuse to pay for that portion?

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on October 30, 2009, 07:12:51 am
I agree you cant judge these things on an individual basis.

In the end the council has to make a judgment as to what the community wants to spend its money on and who to try to benefit. Keeping the current council tax rise below 1% at parish level and still improving play equipment for local kids this year may be seen by most to be a good use of funds. It may be that putting 3% on the budget to benefit commuters who may not even live in the parish would not be seen as such a good thing.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on October 30, 2009, 07:27:43 am
Yes. But please remember that the Council were prepared to pay £10,000 per annum (I believe) to FCC in order to keep the car park free in the past. I also understand that they paid a similar sum for Welham Green.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PCSO Luxford on October 30, 2009, 08:35:13 am
I have spoken with Cllr John Mansfield who is urging people to have their say about the proposed parking restrictions in The Gardens, Westland Drive and Oaklands Avenue. There is approximately a week left for people to have their say.  Cllr Mansfield is urging people to speak with Ray Rehman at the Council Traffic Unit.  If people do not have their say, then it is likely to be deemed as not a problem to local residents and there is a chance nothing will be done to alieviate the problem.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 30, 2009, 08:38:12 am
I have spoken with Cllr John Mansfield who is urging people to have their say about the proposed parking restrictions in The Gardens, Westland Drive and Oaklands Avenue. There is approximately a week left for people to have their say.  Cllr Mansfield is urging people to speak with Ray Rehman at the Council Traffic Unit.  If people do not have their say, then it is likely to be deemed as not a problem to local residents and there is a chance nothing will be done to alieviate the problem.

Hi Louise,

Thanks for this. Do you have any contact details to save everyone having to look up the number for Ray at the Council Traffic Unit?

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PCSO Luxford on October 30, 2009, 08:43:03 am
David

I asked Cllr Mansfield for contact details and unfortunately he did not have any to hand  ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 30, 2009, 08:57:56 am
I have found a number and email address for Ray Rehman. I got it by searching the local authority site, so I presume it is in the public domain and okay to reproduce. (disguised to try to beat spambots).

Ray Rehman: (01707) 357248
Email: r (dot) rehman (at) welhat (dot) gov (dot) uk

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on October 30, 2009, 09:12:54 am
My understanding is that a letter went out on 22 October explaining that public notices were going to be put up in the affected roads and that this notice will explain how to object. Grant Shapps has put a copy of the letter on his site http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,4863.msg46703.html#msg46703

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on October 30, 2009, 12:58:59 pm
I don't drive, so it's unlikely i will ever need the station car park. I also don't expect any time in my life to use the play equipment at Welham Green that the council has provided recently. Following your logic, does that mean I should refuse to pay for that portion?

James

Good idea James, in fact if I made a list of the services I pay for but don't actually use I reckon I could reduce my council tax considerably  ;D

However that wasn't my point, kids play facilities, schools etc etc I dont mind paying for as they've always been on there and are necessary expenses for the community.

The car park is NOT a necessary expense in my eyes. If you live in BP and commute then you can walk there in 30 minutes (or in most cases considerably less) from anywhere in the village.

So being asked to pay for people who

a) cant be bothered to walk or
b) drive in from outside the parish to use it

is not good use of our council tax money in my opinion.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on October 30, 2009, 07:52:32 pm
But the car park is a village facility and commuter cars parked in the roads create problems for those using the local shops, particularly elderly or infirm who can't walk far and certainly can't with shopping. Inconsiderate parking is affecting the village shops and that should be of concern for all residents and council tax payers. Lose the shops, lose the business rates = increased council tax for all...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on October 30, 2009, 09:16:48 pm
But the car park is a village facility and commuter cars parked in the roads create problems for those using the local shops, particularly elderly or infirm who can't walk far and certainly can't with shopping. Inconsiderate parking is affecting the village shops and that should be of concern for all residents and council tax payers. Lose the shops, lose the business rates = increased council tax for all...

I fail to see how commuter parking affects those using the local shops?

As far as I am aware the parking spaces in the village itself are on a 'time limit' basis. IE if you leave your car there all day you are liable to get a ticket (in fact this has been discussed on this forum in the past)

Commuters are not parking in the village centre but on the residential roads that lead off it. I agree it's unpleasant for the residents of those roads but it dos not have an impact on the spaces in the village centre.

By the same token in a village where people find it acceptable to abandon their car on the pavement outside the Chinese / Indian those same car owners are not going to park in the station car park and walk to the shops.

So an increase in council tax to pay for the station car park will only benefit those inconsiderate (and lazy) commuters who are currently causing the problems.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on October 31, 2009, 12:33:07 am
I fail to see how commuter parking affects those using the local shops?

This is one of the main reasons for this thread. It is because commuters are not using the car park they are parking in Westland/Oaklands/Brookmans Avenue/Peplins Way/Bradmore Way all day where there are no restrictions. These areas are still close enough to the shoppers to use, but they can't. There are numerous times when I have tried to park in the village to use the shops and I can't park due to the lack of parking actually in the village. I can't then use nearby roads either. That's exactly the point. It is the commuters parking that IS affecting the village centre, just ask those who trade there. I am a user of the shops, I can't park, so I go elsewhere. Hense my point. I can't be alone in this.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saf on October 31, 2009, 10:34:05 am
It really upsets me to see residents opposing each other here & it is the very reason that I am calling for a community meeting. Only a community meeting can align the residents & ensure that we fight the real culprits here. The commuters are not lazy; a half hour walk for the 6.35 is not a great option, nor is it that appealing at 9.00 at night. That's why there is car park & it's empty. Also the shops ARE a real issue. Where will the shop workers go to park? Many of them come from out of the village; they aren't lazy either. They will park somewhere. This will have a knock on effect to the shoppers and the cars will go right up Brookmans Avenue.

The culprits are FCC. Some guy (presumably) in Cambridge made an anti-social decision to squeeze a bit more money out of the commuters and has started a chain of events that has directly led to this situation. Unfortunately, he's now making less cash than before, so he's not too popular at FCC either!

We can fight this if we work together.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 31, 2009, 11:24:36 am
Dave .............As there is two threads on this Big Issue maybe you can link (Brookmans Park Station car park  / Yellow lines for Westlands and Oaklands) together, as a lot of the above comments have already been discussed on the Brookmans Park Station car park thread and we are just going over the same  issues.

Personally, my thoughts are,  if you pay your road tax and you are insured then you have the right to park on any public highway without causing an obstruction, maybe some double yellow lines on the corners by the church would help with the idiots who don’t understand the highway code. The road outside my house doesn’t belong to me and no matter how annoyed I get anybody can park there.

Maybe the Police can come along and stick a few parking fines on the parkers who obstruct the highway or park on the pavements, then the commuters will learn to park with consideration for the residents, but I reiterate we are all entitled to park outside mine and your front door. I know this is controversial but it’s a fact.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 31, 2009, 12:28:01 pm
Hi Colin,

Done, good suggestion.

Thanks

Dave
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ADM on November 02, 2009, 03:20:11 pm

Personally, my thoughts are,  if you pay your road tax and you are insured then you have the right to park on any public highway without causing an obstruction, maybe some double yellow lines on the corners by the church would help with the idiots who don’t understand the highway code. The road outside my house doesn’t belong to me and no matter how annoyed I get anybody can park there.

we are all entitled to park outside mine and your front door. I know this is controversial but it’s a fact.


What ColinR said.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Silver on November 20, 2009, 09:37:52 pm
We were stuck today at the corner by the church. Three cars and two vans all trying to get through together. This wouldn't have been a problem had there not been cars parked right on the corner AND opposite the junction, turning all three roads into single lanes.

So I have just checked the Highway code and it says you may NOT park (I quote):

"opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space"


So why are people allowed to do this day in day out?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on November 20, 2009, 10:37:46 pm
The Highway Code (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070236)

Quote
Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

So just because something is in the code it doesn't mean it is legally enforceable.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on November 21, 2009, 08:49:29 am
The Highway Code (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070236)

Quote
Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

So just because something is in the code it doesn't mean it is legally enforceable.
Oh it is if the police choose to, by issuing tickets, I think if that happens a few time a week the penny will drop..... However sending a traffic warden to the village to ticket a car that is over the 2 hour limit seems to be an easier option.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grumpy Old Roy on February 26, 2010, 04:03:59 pm

 Once again I must request the parents who park there lorrys at the end of Bradmore Way to have some courtesy and consideration for the residents. This afternoon (Friday the 26th) I observed 5 mothers all driving Chealsea tractors attempt 3 point turns int his narrow piece of road. Three blatantly drove onto my neighbours and my drive when turning.
My others neigbours wall is in a very bad way after being  reversed into many times, our grass verg's are being ruined by being constantly driven over, it has got to stop. When I pointed this out to the ladies, not one even said sorry.

So come on parents show some consideration for us living here. Ever thought of walking your children to school???

I look forward to your cooperation.

Thanks

Yes, its Grumpy Old Roy
 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on August 13, 2010, 12:15:00 pm
The black car that is regularly parked near to the junction is making it extremely difficult to turn in to Moffats Lane from Bluebridge Lane.

If you try to pass it coming down Moffats you often end up face to face with a car entering Moffats.  (And many enter at some speed, too)

It's seems to be an accident waiting to happen.

The Highway Code (243) states that you should not park within 10m of a junction.

Would the owner, if they read this, consider parking further up Moffats?

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 13, 2010, 12:32:35 pm
Direct action such as a note put in a plastic bag under the wiper might be a better means of informing this driver.

The same could be done on cars parked on Holloways Lane near the junction with Dixons Hill Road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on August 13, 2010, 12:47:19 pm
This is the same car to which I referred to in http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php?topic=2662.msg22581;topicseen#new (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php?topic=2662.msg22581;topicseen#new) Perhaps the PCSO's or PC's that access this forum will respond, or maybe this should be reported by a public spirited local resident. As I am not in BP at present so I can't advise them myself without reg numbers (please DON'T put them on this forum) but notify the Police on the non emergency number 08453 300222
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: stevea on August 15, 2010, 08:06:26 am
Where's PS with his A4 paper and tube of superglue when you need him!  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on August 15, 2010, 08:17:06 am
Where's PS with his A4 paper and tube of superglue when you need him!  ;D

I had been back to the UK for a couple of weeks but left on the night before the first posting on 13 Aug - had I of known, I would of course had done just that - usually sorts them out !!! 8)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on August 18, 2010, 10:58:28 am
which is I think as illegal as parking near a junction.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on August 18, 2010, 01:15:23 pm
Parking right on a junction is dangerous and contrevenes the Highway Code (which is not enforceable by law). But does anyone know if it is actually illegal?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on August 18, 2010, 02:24:07 pm
im sure the hwc is enforcable by law. what about speeding/no entry signs...i was nicked for going up a no entry in error some years ago.....

bp
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on August 18, 2010, 03:37:29 pm
The Highway Code is just a guide to the use of the road. That doen't mean that a lot of the things it mentions aren't also a legal requirement (eg speed limits, one way streets etc). But nor does it mean that everything in there (eg don't park within 30 feet of a junction?) is actually enforceable by law.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on August 18, 2010, 10:20:52 pm
Road Traffic Act 1988

Section 22
If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on August 21, 2010, 07:50:33 pm
The black car that is regularly parked near to the junction is making it extremely difficult to turn in to Moffats Lane from Bluebridge Lane.

I can't find Bluebridge Lane on the map.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on September 05, 2010, 07:28:43 pm
Or is it because it's a black car??? Just curious!!! ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on January 04, 2011, 01:16:40 pm
I don't know if anyone else has posted on this but i had a bit of a shock this morning.
NCP have raised the car park fee for the station from £2.50 a day to £3.00, thats a 20% rise and worse than that a weekly ticket at the station has gone from £10.00 a week to £12.50.........a 25% hike.
What with the train fares going up approx £10.00 per month for a trip from Brookmans Park to London Terminals that means the cost of getting to work has increased by £250 per year.............
I had a hunch that as soon as the NCP got hold of the car park and the council initiated parking restrictions in surrounding streets they would hike the prices......just thought they may have been more subtle........i should have known better!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tailspin on January 05, 2011, 11:56:13 am
If I recall correctly, £3.00 was the charge when the "pay-to-park" system was introduced.  After some protest it was reduced to £2.00, then somehow was nudged upto £2.50, and now back to the original rate.  So not sure if you can classify that as an increase as the operators made it clear that the reduction to £2.00 was only temporary.   :P :P :P
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on January 05, 2011, 02:26:45 pm
'RIP' Off Britain - as usual.

This, train fares going up astronomically, fuel and energy prices, VAT hikes etc etc etc  - but wage cuts, freezes etc - frankly, the UK is doomed.

I for one, would not at all be surprised to see rioting in the streets before long - and quite frankly, rightly so.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 05, 2011, 03:38:24 pm
I for one, would not at all be surprised to see rioting in the streets before long - and quite frankly, rightly so.

You are condoning people rioting in the streets ??   >:(

Unfortunately this is just one consequence of years of living beyond our means. Doesn't mean we're doomed. In fact you sound like Fraser from Dad's Army  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on January 05, 2011, 04:00:54 pm
"You are condoning people rioting in the streets ?? "

Wel....I'm not entirely against it that is for sure. May not be the best approach but one can fully undestand the reasons for doing so. Rather like the student rioting when the fees increase was announced - I didn't condemn it as a point of principle...

After all something really has to be done - this state of affairs cannot continue the way it does. And as we all know - the Brits have been far, far too lenient - give me some of the French style protests that's for sure.

Furthermore, I do not understand your point of view when you claim its "just one consequence of years of living beyond our means" - seems like an excuse for rampant profiteering to me    
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 05, 2011, 04:41:02 pm
Furthermore, I do not understand your point of view when you claim its "just one consequence of years of living beyond our means" - seems like an excuse for rampant profiteering to me   

Quite simple. The current government have inherited a huge deficit from the previous administration and quite sensibly have decided to deal with it by cutting spending and increasing taxes. The knock-on effect is that things like rail subsidies have to be cut and so the companies running the railways seek to raise money elsewhere. Eg carpark fees.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: NMLHS on January 05, 2011, 06:44:26 pm
I can not quite understand why there is no talk of rioting or general strikes when a socialist government is in power.  Is it that the tories are all too aristocratic and such things are beneath them and the socialists don't consider it in case they bring down their preferred government.  Or perhaps the socialists don't introduce anything too controversial for fear of loss of support.

As for condoning rioting the French do it at the drop of a hat and seem to get results thereby.  Not that I would like to get caught up in one. Perhaps plain civil disobedience on a national scale is the answer.  But I will wait for the next Labour government to spend all of the cash once the present government has got the country is back on its feet; just like last time.

As for the rise in parking charges I am lucky enough to be able to walk but I know that there are some who cannot.  I wonder what happens if everyone refuses to pay the charge?  Probably all 15 of them (the count of cars in the station carpark at 10.30 am on the 3rd December) would be sued successfully.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: PS on January 05, 2011, 07:51:54 pm
"As for condoning rioting the French do it at the drop of a hat and seem to get results thereby."

Of course - my point exactly - for want of not getting another post removed, I would say that "it appears to be the way forward" for many I have spoken to.

There are of course, several ways and means by which one can "protest" against these NCP rip off charges -use your imagination !!!

 ;D 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Birch on January 07, 2011, 11:58:54 am
Quite simple. The current government have inherited a huge deficit from the previous administration and quite sensibly have decided to deal with it by cutting spending and increasing taxes. The knock-on effect is that things like rail subsidies have to be cut and so the companies running the railways seek to raise money elsewhere. Eg carpark fees.

Get real!! Do you own train shares? The privatised train companies rake it in for their shareholders in millions, but don't reinvest it into the rail system. The rail increases only serve to line the pockets of foreign investors.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 19, 2011, 04:12:03 pm
Police are urging local residents to ensure that any contractors working for them park responsibly.

The latest Neighbourhood Watch newsletter claims that complaints are made nearly every day regarding vans and lorries parked inconsiderately. Police say it's up to those hiring the contractors to ensure they park properly.  If they don't it could lead to disputes between neighbours.

"Your neighbours will still be there once the contractors have gone and I am sure you do not wish to create unintentional rifts within your community," the newsletter warns.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on August 06, 2011, 09:23:39 am
I fear there is going to be an accident soon at this junction. This morning, because I had to overtake two parked vehicles at the end of Moffats, I almost had a head on with a car turning into Moffats travelling from the village.  Thankfully, it was a careful driver travelling slowly. If they had swung in at speed there would have been a crash.  The same thing happened last week and a learner had to do an emergency stop. The young woman looked scared.

How can we encourage people not to park in a way that endangers life?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jayare2693 on August 06, 2011, 11:00:50 am
I agree with you David, I use that road at least once or twice a day and the cars that park there on a regular basis are extremely dangerous, I angered a car turning into the road from Bluebridge because I was on the wrong side of the road but I had no option ... thankfully he slowed down and missed me ... has anyone reported the situation to the Police ?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Welli G on August 06, 2011, 10:13:41 pm
I fear it may not be possible to educate these people in parking correctly or considerately. These days people seem to think 'i need to stop' so they do just that. Move to side of road, apply handbrake, get out. The thought that it might be in a dangerous position or be inconvenience to other road users doesn't enter their heads.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on August 06, 2011, 10:24:50 pm
Quite!

I thought where there was a white line in the middle of the road, you couldn't park there anyway as too near a junction.  The problem at the moment is the building work that's going on during the week in that area.  It's also hazardous for pedestrians
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 08, 2011, 11:10:09 am
How can we encourage people not to park in a way that endangers life?

What about leaving a polite note under the windscreen wiper - in a plastic bag in case of rain.  Maybe with an extract from the Highway Code - not that I have read it for many years but I am sure it used to contain advice on safe and dangerous parking.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Therock on November 05, 2011, 09:21:58 pm
Can anyone please tell me where I stand as regards parking My 10 ton  hgv Lorry in The road for 2 weeks . Its fully Insured and taxed and Licenced. Any comments would be appreciiated. Thanks
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on November 06, 2011, 08:11:21 am
Probably depends on which road and where on that road. Any vehicle with a 'Goods Vehicle Operator Licence' is classed as a large goods vehicle. As you will know a large goods vehicle is classed as a commercial vehicle that weighs over 3.5 tonnes. These vehicles are not normally permitted to park on any street, off street car park or residential area. They may only park in an off street car park or driveway if these are the agreed operating centre for the vehicle. Operating centres are agreed with VOSA, these are generally not in residential areas, however any resident concerned about the parking of large goods vehicles should contact VOSA on 0300 123 9000 or enquiries@vosa.gov.uk with the registration of the vehicle for further advice.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on November 06, 2011, 09:47:33 am
Can anyone please tell me where I stand as regards parking My 10 ton  hgv Lorry in The road for 2 weeks . Its fully Insured and taxed and Licenced. Any comments would be appreciiated. Thanks
 


Have you had to move your wallet then The Rock?


quote box corrected
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on November 06, 2011, 09:57:45 am
Can anyone please tell me where I stand as regards parking My 10 ton  hgv Lorry in The road for 2 weeks . Its fully Insured and taxed and Licenced. Any comments would be appreciiated. Thanks
I think if the vehicle is parked the gavers may enforce against you, however if you drive the vehicle around Brookmans Park for two weeks citing the reason that you couldnt find a parking space, at speeds in excess of 60mph you should be ok.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Therock on November 06, 2011, 12:32:04 pm
Thanks to all for  the Advice, it has been taken onboard.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on December 27, 2011, 01:09:12 pm
I have noticed the the new parking restriction signs have been unveiled in Brookmans Avenue advising of a £90 fine should people park in the road. I am assuming this fine is enforceable by a private company since there are no road markings or signs requiring compliance under the Road Traffic Act and it is a private road?

Can anyone clarify the legal/actual position regarding this please?

Perhaps the home owners have been blocked entry to their huge drives with ample parking for multiple cars??

Let's hope it doesn't remove custom from the village shops where parking is virtually impossible.....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on December 27, 2011, 08:38:06 pm
Whilst I sympathise with BrAve residents, if these parking enforcements are from a private company and not Council or Police enforced, then they are not legally enforcable and not worth the paper they are written on.

They rely on threatening to issue a claim via a Small Claims or County Court actions resulting in CCJ's but there has never ever been a case brought by a parking company due to their claims/penalties being legally unenforcable

.... search relevant topics here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?

DO NOT PAY any penalty charges or fines, they are not legally enforcable.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on December 27, 2011, 10:22:01 pm
Do you know what the restriction actually applies to? Is it just the 5 metres or so directly next to each sign? The whole road? Both sides of the road? Can they tow your car away or just issue a (non-enforceable) fine?
 ???
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on December 27, 2011, 11:27:27 pm
I shall go and check the signs for more details. Can our local PCSO/PC shed any light on this?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on December 28, 2011, 07:06:50 pm
Can our local PCSO/PC shed any light on this?
Good call. This would be an interesting insight on what knowledge/advice the local PCSO/Plod have regarding these non-enforcable parking penalty charges.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 11, 2012, 03:37:59 pm
Just walked past these signs. There are four on the north side of Brookmans Avenue, two have already been damaged.  Below is a photo of one of the undamaged signs.  I called UKPC on the number printed on the sign 0870-174-0074 to ask whether it was okay to park if there are no lines on the road. I was told, "no, I would not park there, if in doubt ask one of the wardens patrolling the area."  I didn't see any wardens. Interesting to see the number of cars parked along the avenue. Anyway, here is a picture of one of the signs for anyone interested. (If you find the sign hard to read click on the picture and when the next page loads click the picture again for a large size version).

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/january12/parking_sign_brookmans_avenue_small.jpg) (http://www.brookmans.com/news/january12/parking_sign_brookmans_avenue_big.jpg)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on January 11, 2012, 03:42:59 pm
As the sign refers to parking charges then I guess it's effectively unenforceable.

I would think all you have to do in the event of receiving a ticket is write to UKPC pointing this out and request they cease and desist sending any further communication.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on January 11, 2012, 04:44:14 pm
great looking signs too...really fit in with the local area  :-\
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on January 11, 2012, 04:59:02 pm
Just googled that phone number and found this discussion thread:

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t35565.html (http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t35565.html)

It seems like any charges are unenforceable from reading that.

Wonder what would happen if everyone just parked along there now!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: HAWC145 on January 11, 2012, 07:11:04 pm
Would a sign like that need planning permission??
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on January 11, 2012, 11:12:05 pm
Sign states "This land is private property and parking enforcement is managed by UK Parking Control Ltd"
- in this case, who is the land owner that has agreed to this 'management' and this company's practices?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Oly on January 12, 2012, 11:39:29 am
I have had a run in with UKPC in the past, put a small sign up about 5 meters on a wall in Cufley........

Needless to say the action is unforceable, threats of court action from their solicitors but then nothing.
I beleive they still use a solicitors called Hunter Forrest and Co (changed their name to the later after too many complaints) however they are mentioned on Consumer Action and its not the best review.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Oly on January 12, 2012, 11:46:59 am
Link to the site of consumer action, seems they call your neighbours too......
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?78023-hunter-forrest-amp-co (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?78023-hunter-forrest-amp-co)

They were called CES previously, I could not remember but thanks to google I do now.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: slimgym on January 12, 2012, 07:23:42 pm
I saw these signs too and wondered if the council had given permission for them to be put onto their lamp-posts?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on January 12, 2012, 10:21:12 pm
As the sign refers to parking charges then I guess it's effectively unenforceable.

I would think all you have to do in the event of receiving a ticket is write to UKPC pointing this out and request they cease and desist sending any further communication.

Do not enter into any correspondence with UKPC. It's like opening a dodgy email, they then know that you're out there and they will then try to pursue you.

I have had no further hassle from APCOA re Luton Airport but someone I know replied to them saying he would not pay and he has been hassled ever since.

Just ignore the cretins! :mblah05:

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on January 12, 2012, 10:25:41 pm
Can our local PCSO/PC shed any light on this?

We're still in the dark re. any PCSO/PC response!  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on January 12, 2012, 10:57:05 pm
Could have asked her at the meeting tonight if we knew where it was!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Greybeard on January 13, 2012, 09:23:56 am
The Telegraph's "Honest John" answers questions about parking from time to time. Here's a page on his site - there may be more relevant ones.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/23719/car-parking-charges (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/23719/car-parking-charges)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on January 13, 2012, 10:25:13 am
As others have pointed out, these signs refer to Parking Charges so I'm wondering

a)  How much does it cost to park in Brookmans Avenue?

b)  How long can you park for at each rate?

c)  Where is the machine to pay for parking charges?

d)  Do the 'Parking Charges' apply to the whole road?


As I said earlier, I'd like to see what happens if everyone just parked along there.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: slimgym on January 17, 2012, 07:22:58 pm
I saw these signs too and wondered if the council had given permission for them to be put onto their lamp-posts?
Answering my own question, someone I spoke to suggested Brookmans Ave is an unadopted, private road over which right of way is given to pass but not to stop/park (so therefore not council owned/maintained). Also Mymms Drive.

I had wondered why Brookmans Ave remained ungritted last year when other backroads such as Peplins and Bradmore Way were gritted, seemingly in isolation. Checking the gritting rounds on Hertsdirect Webmaps (http://www.hertsdirect.org/maps/Website/WebMaps/default.htm) shows the gritting does not include Brookmans Ave nor Mymms Drive. In fact the gritting round comes down Blueridge Rd, along Moffats Lane, but stops abruptly at Mymms Drive (when logically it would be more trouble to stop it there than just continue to the A1000).

Maybe this explains why the signs are allowed?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: tyrrell on January 22, 2012, 07:13:00 pm
Hi. I've heard from Hertfordshire County Council that as far as they are concerned Brookmans Ave and Mymms Drive are Highways not maintainable at public expense. Their view is based on creation of a highway via Common Law Dedication in or about 1928-1930. In addition, the roads are highways under S31(1) of the Highways Act 1980 (based on 20 year plus continuous use by the public).
In relation to slimgym's comments re. gritting: Brookmans Av. is not gritted by the Council as the road is not maintainable at public expense and therefore the Council does not have a statutory duty to grit the road. As the roads are 'highways' any one can park so long as it does not cause unreasonable interference or a danger with the passage of motor vehicles. The fact that the roads are under private ownership is irrelevant. Any fines collected under a private parking scheme on a 'highway' would be regarded by the Council as illegal. We further understand from Herts County Council that the private owner of Brookmans Av. has been asked to remove the parking signs.   
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on January 22, 2012, 08:49:28 pm
Thanks for the update tyrrell. Does anyone know who the private owner is?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: tyrrell on January 22, 2012, 09:05:35 pm
That's ok jmj, the owner is Brookmans Park Roads Limited.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on January 23, 2012, 09:42:19 pm
I saw these signs too and wondered if the council had given permission for them to be put onto their lamp-posts?
Answering my own question, someone I spoke to suggested Brookmans Ave is an unadopted, private road over which right of way is given to pass but not to stop/park (so therefore not council owned/maintained). Also Mymms Drive.

Maybe this explains why the signs are allowed?

The signs are allowed....but all penalty charge notices, imposed fines, fees, enforcement notices, charges etc etc ......just ignore them, all are catergorically unenforcable, full stop, finito. Ignore all of them and sleep tight with no worries.


(Reason for edit sent to author)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: tyrrell on January 24, 2012, 09:36:23 am
As I understand it, the parking signs erected are unlawful as they are misleading to the public in the sense that they suggest Brookmans Avenue is not a highway and also in that they wrongly suggest a private individual can charge for the public's lawful use of the highway. If the owner does not remove the signs then Herts County Council may remove them pursuant to their statutory powers under section 132(2) of the Highways Act 1980.   
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on January 27, 2012, 06:19:50 pm
As I understand it, the parking signs erected are unlawful as they are misleading to the public in the sense that they suggest Brookmans Avenue is not a highway and also in that they wrongly suggest a private individual can charge for the public's lawful use of the highway. If the owner does not remove the signs then Herts County Council may remove them pursuant to their statutory powers under section 132(2) of the Highways Act 1980.

Interesting information.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on March 09, 2012, 01:04:09 pm
Sample template letter from a lawyer to a similar company operating elsewhere if anyone needs it:

http://timkevan.blogspot.com/2012/03/challenge-to-private-parking-charge.html (http://timkevan.blogspot.com/2012/03/challenge-to-private-parking-charge.html)

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on March 09, 2012, 04:41:52 pm
Afternoon,

For those of you who missed this in the most recent Brookmans Park & Little Heath Neighbourhood Watch newsletter (see http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,3558.0.html (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,3558.0.html)), this is the information regarding the parking situation that we included in it:

"Parking restrictions on Brookmans Avenue – it has been brought to our attention that Brookmans Avenue (road surfaced area) has been bought and as such the person/people who now own the road are entitled to add yellow lines and employ a private company to ticket the vehicles parked along the road they own.  However, we have been informed by local traffic police that any ticketing will still be working on a private road and the police will have no part in the ticketing or removal of unwanted cars."

Hope this clears some things up!  Feel free to get in touch with the local NHW team, via our Twitter page @BP_LH_NHW or email bp_lh_nhw [at] live.com, if you have concerns that you would like us to raise with our local police team at our next meeting.

ta,
Aidan
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on March 09, 2012, 08:11:34 pm
"Parking restrictions on Brookmans Avenue – it has been brought to our attention that Brookmans Avenue (road surfaced area) has been bought and as such the person/people who now own the road are entitled to add yellow lines and employ a private company to ticket the vehicles parked along the road they own.  However, we have been informed by local traffic police that any ticketing will still be working on a private road and the police will have no part in the ticketing or removal of unwanted cars."

IE - In other words this confirms that the penalties isued for the yellow lines are unenforcable by a private company.

DO NOT PAY!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peeplins on April 26, 2012, 11:58:37 pm
Anyone else noticed the increased commuter parking in Peplins Way & Close in recent weeks.

Think it may be a knock on from parking restrictions in force in Westland Drive and recent issues with parking in Brookmans Avenue.

Walking home this week I have counted on a daily basis around 30 cars parked in Peplins Way from the shops stretching down almost reaching the edge on the school field!!

At the same time I have noted that on alighting from the train at 6pm there are approx 20 cars which park daily in the station car park, which by the looks of it is a third of the capacity, which seems such a waste.

Have not had the opportunity to find out what the daily parking charges are (previous threads indicated daily parking rate 2011 £3.00) but it occurred to me that NCP or whoever runs the car park could encourage commuters to use the car park and maintain perhaps increase revenue by halving current charges. 

How does that work - well the 30 cars parked in Peplins let's say 30% are resident and/or visitors to residents - that still leaves say 20 commuter cars, which if they parked in the car park would double the existing usage and by halving the carpark charge would still maintain revenue.

And more importantly clear Peplins of cars parked all day - which in turn would help the flow at school pick up/drop off. 

I am certainly not for implementing parking restrictions in Peplins - just the ramblings of the random thoughts on my walk home!!

Welcome any other comments / suggestions

Just a final thought - perhaps we could rent our drives out as a parking space!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 27, 2012, 09:03:25 am
We regularly have cars parked outside our house at the lower end of Moffats. It's fine by me and I think it probably helps slow down the F1 drivers. The only issue is that many park on the kerb - sometimes the bulk of the vehicle blocks the pavement. If you do park on Moffats please be aware that there are a number of people who use motorised wheelchairs and who are often forced to take to the road because the pavement has been blocked by cars parked badly.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on April 27, 2012, 09:46:41 am
The only issue is that many park on the kerb - sometimes the bulk of the vehicle blocks the pavement. If you do park on Moffats please be aware that there are a number of people who use motorised wheelchairs and who are often forced to take to the road because the pavement has been blocked by cars parked badly.
You are so right. My elderly mother lives further up Moffats, on the other side from you, and there is one particular vehicle which is often parked right on the pavement. When my mother's friend knocked on the householder's door to ask politely if the vehicle could be moved as there were 3 elderly people with ambulatory problems needing to get past, they were told by the woman to f*** off, she lived there and she could do as she liked!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 27, 2012, 09:53:13 am
You are so right. My elderly mother lives further up Moffats, on the other side from you, and there is one particular vehicle which is often parked right on the pavement. When my mother's friend knocked on the householder's door to ask politely if the vehicle could be moved as there were 3 elderly people with ambulatory problems needing to get past, they were told by the woman to f*** off, she lived there and she could do as she liked!

So sad to hear that. You would think that a plea to try to solve a problem faced by an elderly neighbour would be met with a reasonable and helpful response. I am reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene) (wonderful book - recommended). Unfortunately you came across someone displaying the selfish gene.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on April 27, 2012, 10:18:15 am
When my mother's friend knocked on the householder's door to ask politely if the vehicle could be moved as there were 3 elderly people with ambulatory problems needing to get past, they were told by the woman to f*** off, she lived there and she could do as she liked!

Some people are unbelievably selfish and parking on pavements unnecessarily is near the top of my pet hates.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 27, 2012, 01:55:46 pm
Some people are unbelievably selfish and parking on pavements unnecessarily is near the top of my pet hates.

As I write there are 11 cars parked blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats. It would be difficult to get a pram or wheelchair past any of them.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on May 02, 2012, 04:53:06 pm
Some people are unbelievably selfish and parking on pavements unnecessarily is near the top of my pet hates.

As I write there are 11 cars parked blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats. It would be difficult to get a pram or wheelchair past any of them.

TBH, most children in Brookmans Park do not know what pavements are for as they are transported everywhere via Range Rover, BMW X5, Volvo XC90, Audi Q7 or with the poorer MPV brigade.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on May 02, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
Some people are unbelievably selfish and parking on pavements unnecessarily is near the top of my pet hates.

As I write there are 11 cars parked blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats. It would be difficult to get a pram or wheelchair past any of them.

TBH, most children in Brookmans Park do not know what pavements are for as they are transported everywhere via Range Rover, BMW X5, Volvo XC90, Audi Q7 or with the poorer MPV brigade.

Most Children in BP probably don't know what pavements are as many of our roads don't have them. If the town planners don't care why would the motorist.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 03, 2012, 01:02:50 pm
I have split this topic and merged it with an existing thread because it was in danger of distracting from the original post that was about Brookmans Park Station car park.  It was my fault, I took it off topic. Sorry.

 :-\
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on May 06, 2012, 09:21:41 am
No the town planners didn't forget to put in pavements. The roads are supposed to be semi-rural where you can walk safely confident in the knowledge that only the occasionally slow moving car would carefully pass you. I am afraid it us car users who have misunderstood the situation and created a problem.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on May 09, 2012, 03:02:43 pm
Moffats Lane seem particulary bad this afternoon.  Just walked down and saw seven vehicles parked on the pavement (bottom, even numbers) and eight on the way back.  Then a van parked right across the pavement from a drive on the other side - waited for them to move and then move back again when I had walked past!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on August 16, 2012, 07:59:12 pm
Some very selfish parking on Moffats Lane today - a car parked at 90o across the pavement which meant I had to walk across the garden to get past.  As the house in question is having building work at the moment it would be a nightmare for anyone on a mobility scooter or wheelchair to navigate round.
 >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Greybeard on August 17, 2012, 08:10:17 am
So inconvenient to have to unfold your wings just to fly over one vehicle, Angel :)

Seriously, it's a real liberty. I'm amazed no one involved is embarrassed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: NMLHS on August 20, 2012, 10:53:19 pm
The answer is to park somehwre safer and walk.


That's OK providing you can walk any distance; there are some who can't and many won't otherwise they would leave their cars in their own drives.

With all the traffic calming the cars will soon be going so slowly that they should be able to avoid the cars parked legally on the road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on August 21, 2012, 09:53:56 pm
Welwyn Hatfield's Parking Enforcement Squad are too busy targetting victims parked on yellow lines close to Br Pk Station/Bradmore Green area rather than tackling the more dangerous parking by offenders who block pavements, disabled ramps etc in roads further afield.  ::)





Edited to fix name of local authority.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on May 02, 2013, 12:06:34 pm
Having been a sesason ticket holder for the car park for a number of years. I was surprised to have been given a ticket one day. This was due to the fact that the little purple disc had fallen down onto the floor at some point. It is my belief that the attendants have access to their database to see if the vehicles are already paid for and so I was not sure why the ticket was issued. I wrote to APCOA and explained the situation and they have written back stating that they understand my position, they know I have a valid permit but will not cancel the ticket as it wasnt displayed....  I could accept it if I had not paid them ...
Phoning them leaves you in a queue for about 20 mins then you are cut off..

Anyone else had any issues like this?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on May 02, 2013, 12:13:13 pm
Might be too late now but I would have insisted that the disc was on display and it was the fault of the warden.

Of course you are technically in the wrong but as APCOA know you are a season ticket holder it's very petty they will not cancel the ticket.
Once upon a time there was something called 'goodwill'. Not sure where that went :-(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on May 02, 2013, 12:20:14 pm
Strange thing is that sometimes I only buy a week at a time and not a monthly permit. When buying a weeks one you dont get given anything to display at all. So the attendant MUST check every vehicle that doesnt display a ticket....

I think its a rip off to be honest. I wont be paying them anything... I'll see them in court if they want to take it that far. I can prove that I had paid and they already admit that.... Happy Days....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 02, 2013, 12:44:17 pm
Might be too late now but I would have insisted that the disc was on display and it was the fault of the warden.

This is not good advice. It is dishonest and unfair on the warden if the fact, as set out by Largey, was that that the disc was not on display.

This was due to the fact that the little purple disc had fallen down onto the floor at some point.

It is clearly frustrating to get a ticket when you have paid, but it can't be right to lie about it and say it was "the fault of the warden" and get him or her in trouble.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 02, 2013, 01:00:31 pm
Might be too late now but I would have insisted that the disc was on display and it was the fault of the warden.

This is not good advice. It is dishonest and unfair on the warden if the fact, as set out by Largey, was that that the disc was not on display.

It's also risky. Many wardens have a digital camera and take a picture of the car to use as evidence should the case go to court. This might well prove there was no ticket on display and if you're caught lying you'd have no chance of removing a very unfair ticket.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on May 03, 2013, 08:33:11 pm
There will not be any lies told here. Simply they will not be paid. I phoned them (got through eventually) and told them they are pushing their luck and would not be paid. The customer services person really couldn't be bothered so that said it all for me..
Yes they did send a very nice picture of my car. I dont believe for one minute they will pursue this any further. If they do we can have a morning at court and we can get to the bottom of the rights and wrongs.
In fact "Bring it on APCOA" it would be good to put them on the spot... :P
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Therock on May 04, 2013, 08:49:33 pm
Largey, I had the same problem with some scam Parking Company at Luton Airport. I had paid for parking in the short stay car park, and was going to drop my wife and kids of at the drop of point, but there was a long cue of traffic going back 100 yds. My wife was feeling unwell and got out of the car whilst we were stuck in the jam to go to the toilets in the departure lounge. I then  took the car back to the short stay parking and parked up and then got the b us back to the airport. 3 weeks later, on arrival home I got a Letter demanding £80 for stopping in a non pick up zone. There are no signs saying no stopping except one which is on the hill towards the airport, and you have to stop to read the terms and conditions because the writing was unread able from the car. I refused to pay, and ignored the leter 2 weeks later a letter from a soliciors saying the fine was now £130 once again I did not pay then a third letter saying it had gone up to £320 but if I paid up it would be £120. I did not pay a penny. The Company Concerned  are a  scam and have no  legal right to charge you on private land. they also got my car reg with didgy means. I know of at least 250 cases of this Company trying to rip of the poor gulibale people who are scared aof a pathetic letter threating them and a pathetic solicitors letter to back it up. i know for a fact that the Company in question has not taken one person to court because if they did they would loose everytime. The guy who does the moneysaving programme Martin Lewis has this on his website. I like you would love a day in court with these dirty lowlife to put the case, but as usual they havent got the bottle, they only pray on the Gulible and old and frail. Good luck with your case, The the thing that intrest me regarding your case is what time did you put your sticker in the car and what time did the  Jobsworth give you a ticket. I have had stickers fall of whilst parked up in Potters Bar, and had the good fortune to show the Jobsworth that they fell off the wndow due to the heat on the windscreen.   Good luck, and in future dont pay the robbers  anything and go and park in one of the side roads like other people it will save you a lot of Grief.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on June 04, 2013, 10:30:40 pm
Having been a sesason ticket holder for the car park for a number of years. I was surprised to have been given a ticket one day. This was due to the fact that the little purple disc had fallen down onto the floor at some point. It is my belief that the attendants have access to their database to see if the vehicles are already paid for and so I was not sure why the ticket was issued. I wrote to APCOA and explained the situation and they have written back stating that they understand my position, they know I have a valid permit but will not cancel the ticket as it wasnt displayed....  I could accept it if I had not paid them ...
Phoning them leaves you in a queue for about 20 mins then you are cut off..

Do not pay the so called APCOA charge/ fine/ penalty.

AFAIK APCOA cannot legally enforce the payment of their demand, same as in Supermarket and similar car parks. Only local councils and police can enforce penalties for parking. The Station Car Park does not fall into that bracket, it is now privately run by APCOA.

See - www.pepipoo.co.uk (http://www.pepipoo.co.uk) - for free parking fine info and advice.

HTH
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nick on June 07, 2013, 12:48:12 am
Largey, I had the same problem with some scam Parking Company at Luton Airport. I had paid for parking in the short stay car park, and was going to drop my wife and kids of at the drop of point, but there was a long cue of traffic going back 100 yds. My wife was feeling unwell and got out of the car whilst we were stuck in the jam to go to the toilets in the departure lounge.

Was at Luton airport yesterday and they are now charging £2 just to use the drop off!  Observed lots of cars avoiding the payment and dropping off in the no stop zone as now no alternative but to pay. Another money making venture  :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on June 17, 2013, 06:43:33 pm
Thanks to all of you who have passed your comments. As I stated there will be no payment heading their way so lets just see what happens......
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on June 24, 2013, 07:18:35 pm
Thanks to all of you who have passed your comments. As I stated there will be no payment heading their way so lets just see what happens......

.........please let us know of the outcome. Tx.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on July 17, 2013, 01:12:46 pm
Some residents have received the attached letter from WHBC today.

It refers to http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5235 (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5235)

 and http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8172&p=0 (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8172&p=0)

http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/Parking%20Consultation%20-%20BP.pdf
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on July 17, 2013, 01:15:30 pm
The question is - do Brookmans Park residents want the village roads to be covered in yellow lines and all the assorted parking restriction notices?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on July 17, 2013, 01:38:46 pm
As a Peplins Way resident and frequently unable to reverse out of my drive safely as the view obstructed by commuter's cars I'd be quite happy to see yellow lines along the same idea as those on Westlands Drive.

Unfortunately all this expense could be avoided if free parking was available at the station.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on July 17, 2013, 06:21:59 pm
I'm opposed to parking restrictions involving ugly yellow lines.

If yellow lines are imposed on us then it may mean that commuters will have to park elsewhere in the Village (a bit like sweeping dust under the carpet) and we'll then be left with a yellow-line-infested environment in which to live. Perhaps we could be issued with FREE - and I mean FREE - residents' parking permits instead. We could have a simple sign at the junctions of Peplins and Bradmore Ways stating e.g.  'Residents parking only Monday through Friday, all other users restricted to two hours free parking.' I don't believe that this would mean we would need yellow lines as most people can read. We'd still be moving the problem on but the road sides would not require any yellow line vandalism.
 
It's not perfect, but it's better than more draconian measures.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on July 17, 2013, 06:44:03 pm
The full report is boring graphs and council blah. The only bit that really matters is the conclusions they draw.

Personally, I don't want to see any new lines painted - although do feel more parking by the shops is required.
Also perhaps the bays could be an actual car's width, unlike the ultra narrow bays outside the co-op.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Greybeard on July 18, 2013, 08:06:17 am
Some places have a parking restriction which doesn't require ugly yellow lines or costly residents' parking permits.

Each side of the road has different no parking periods, each an hour long. That stops all day parking, which is what causes the problem.

If the no parking period on one side of the road follows directly on from the period on the other side, that should make enforcement a little cheaper, as it should only require one visit a day from a traffic warden.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: saffie on November 05, 2013, 07:25:06 am
Who can I contact about cars parking on the corner of The Gardens as you turn in from Bluebridge Road.  They park right up to the corner making turning in hard and blind and also if you are waiting to turn out and someone wants to come in then it blocks your view.

Please help.


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on November 05, 2013, 08:00:48 am
I don't know who you contact BUT I did find the relevant part of the Highway Code:
https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-239-to-247 (https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-239-to-247) (Item 243)

Quote
DO NOT stop or park - opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on November 05, 2013, 09:23:40 am
I raised this very matter with the police at one of their meetings at the URC at least 3 years ago. The comment from them was 'people have to park somewhere' ie ignore the Highway Code and do as you like - we will not do anything! Great - thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: saffie on November 05, 2013, 09:33:23 am
It's very dangerous and now it's dark so early it's awful trying to turn in.  I did put this on the parking form that came round. 

Would just like to raise it with someone from HCC or police if it's an offence which I believe it is.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: chicken legs on November 05, 2013, 10:47:59 am
We have the same problem on the corner of Holloways Lane and Dixons Hill Road (Welham Green), about which I have emailed the police but had no reply  >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on November 05, 2013, 11:03:57 pm
We have the same problem on the corner of Holloways Lane and Dixons Hill Road (Welham Green), about which I have emailed the police but had no reply  >:(

This includes commuters cars blocking the ramps for wheelchair/scooter users, ie. small minded individuals
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on November 07, 2013, 02:07:27 pm
The main problem with parking in The Gardens, is that some residents from Bluebridge Road will insist on parking their cars there, rather than parking outside their own houses. Some households have 3 or even 4 cars, especially if they have young people at home with cars, and if they won't park outside their own houses, the cars end up in the nearest side road, ie The Gardens.

It may also be a problem with perception - that Bluebridge Road is a main road and should be left clear for traffic. This has been exacerbated by Herts Highways painting lines on both sides of the road after they took away the middle white line, thus making it look as if it parking on Bluebridge Road was discouraged.

Parking too near the junction is already against the Highway Code, the PSCO's should come down and enforce it.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on November 07, 2013, 03:51:22 pm
Parking too near the junction is already against the Highway Code, the PSCO's should come down and enforce it.

The Highway Code is not enforceable, it is not law. There is no law about parking on or near a junction. It is an offence to leave a vehicle in a dangerous position, but is it dangerous or just inconvenient? Either way PCSOs have no power to deal.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on November 07, 2013, 04:21:15 pm
It is dangerous and it's a wonder that there hasn't been an accident yet. Coming into, or indeed out to turn right, of The Gardens it is impossible to see what is coming if vehicles are parked up to the corner. Surely something could be done by someone!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: saffie on November 07, 2013, 05:25:05 pm
It needs some lines put on that corner and going past that house to give enough space for people to park safely, also this might stop people from Bluebridge parking there, the extra few feet might put them off.

Can this thread not be forwarding to Hertfordshire Highways Agency?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on November 07, 2013, 09:04:48 pm
It is dangerous ...

Very subjective and hence difficult to prove. A high sided van may block vision whereas a sports car may not. That's probably why there is no law on how near to a junction you can park; there are many factors to consider such as depth of verge, foliage, speed of road etc.
 
It needs some lines put on that corner

Correct, if you want an enforceable solution you need yellow paint and a council warden paid by results.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 18, 2013, 06:44:30 pm
This resident disagrees with the proposed 2 hour waiting restriction. I vote against it.
An examination of the Council’s analysis shows its interpretation is flawed.
Bradmore & Peplins Way have high levels of parking but not to the degree that would justify the parking restrictions that the Council intends.
Parking Services has, it seems, received ‘complaints’ from Bradmore & Peplins Way residents. A little analysis of the facts quickly shows that the majority perhaps all of these ‘complaints’ are wrong in fact, and are often no more than nimbyism.
It seems residents claim they ‘cannot get into or out of their drive because of parked cars’. Setting aside the ‘school run’ these assertions are largely baseless. Even if, in both roads, all kerbside spaces have a vehicle in them, it is quite possible to enter / exit driveways. It is readily observable:
The majority of house driveway entrances either side of the road face each other; so the turning circle is not restricted. Many houses have double-width driveway entrances; so even there isn’t a driveway opposite and a vehicle is parked there, turning circle / manoeuvre in / out is not unduly restricted. At the ends of Bradmore Way, where the road narrows, parking is in any event only possible on one side; so the two earlier points apply.
The majority of complaints, it seems, arise:
Nimbyism: Some residents perceive that they ‘own’ the roadside space outside their house. Even if aware that it is public space (in which a man who has driven from John O’Groats can legally park for as long as he wishes) they reject that notion; and use ‘parking problems’ as a disguise for spurious ‘ownership / parking privilege’ claims. Some householders want parking restrictions partly in order to ‘reserve’ the street space outside their house for a frequent visitor; and simultaneously reject that parking restrictions or purchased parking permits should apply to them! This seems to be representative of much of the logic.
It is easy to observe that various residents, particularly the more elderly, have difficulty, due to poor driving skills; not because of the parking.
As the two roads form a loop, there is zero through traffic other than the ‘school runs’ to the school. Only the most unreasonable residents consider this short-term busy period as unacceptable; in many cases, the quality and reputation of the primary school (and of Chancellor’s) was most likely a major reason why they themselves moved here when their own children were of school age. Perhaps they’ve forgotten.
Project Services Study contains statements re: the primary school which are inaccurate. The primary school provides on-site parking for all but 2 or 3 staff. So it doesn’t contribute to the on-street parking.
The Study, carried out for Parking Services, on Mon 19th November 2012 between 08:00 & 21:00, defines visits of 3 hours of less as ‘short stay’; and states that the majority of visitors stay for 0 - 1 hour.
That was a school day, when there is a high volume of ‘school run’ visits, well within the stated survey period. The survey does not adequately distinguish between these ‘school run’ visits and other non-school run visitors.
Excluding the ‘school runs’, a large proportion of the 0-3 hour short-term visitors would be visiting the shops in the village, that provide a range of goods, shopping and services. In particular many of the services shops - hairdressers, healthcare specialists – have clients who stay for periods in excess of 1 hour. These, and tradesmen visits to houses, will account for the visits lasting periods 2-3 hours. The visits of 5-6 hours will likely be long-stay tradesmen and commuter parking.
The proposed parking restriction 10 – 12 AM – would severely adversely impact those businesses.
It is the stated desire of local and the County Council is to promote and support local communities and the shops which are integral to them. Parking Services proposals are in conflict with those objectives.
Visual impact of Yellow lines: The yellow lines on Bradmore and Peplins Way would have obvious adverse visual impact, and spoil the character of the roads and area. If Parking permits are required, they will cost £20 for the first car, £40 for each subsequent one; and (from memory) £20 for a book of 10 visitor’s permits.
Self-survey of parking: A resident recently undertook his own ‘afternoon and early morning’ surveys of driveway spaces on-street parking, on PM 14th / AM 15th November. A summary is given below. The survey shows little difference between daytime and early morning (07:00 – 07:40) on-street parking.
      Driveway parking spaces   Cars on Drives   Comm vehicles on Drives   Cars in Road   Comm vehicles in Road   Cars on Drives   Comm vehicles on Drives   Cars in Road   Comm vehicles in Road
Survey date / time      Thurs 14 Nov 13 @ 2:00 - 2:55 PM   Friday 15 Nov 13 @ 07:00 - 07:40 AM
No of houses   173   346                        
Totals          140   23   30   9   222   2   33   1
Totals cars & commercials:   163   39   224   34
Total on drives & roads:      202   258
Summary observations:         
Total no houses with:                           
   1 space   38                        
   2 spaces   98                        
   3 spaces   30                        
   4 spaces   4                        
Driveway utilisation at night (by cars)         64%      
If at night all cars were on drives:            74%      
Whilst there is a parking issue, it does not justify the actions proposed by Parking Services, which would have limited positive impact on parking, whilst having a very negative impact on the functioning and quality of the village and its essential businesses.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 18, 2013, 06:49:37 pm
As a Peplins Way resident and frequently unable to reverse out of my drive safely as the view obstructed by commuter's cars I'd be quite happy to see yellow lines along the same idea as those on Westlands Drive.

Unfortunately all this expense could be avoided if free parking was available at the station.

You shouldn't be backing out in the first place; you should reverse in so you can leave going forwards
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 19, 2013, 11:29:39 am
The full report is boring graphs and council blah. The only bit that really matters is the conclusions they draw.

Personally, I don't want to see any new lines painted - although do feel more parking by the shops is required.
Also perhaps the bays could be an actual car's width, unlike the ultra narrow bays outside the co-op.

It is surprising that Mr Green doesn't seem to appreciate that (on any subject) conclusions are or should be dependent on the detail they are drawn from; and that if there is a difference or inaccurate it can and should be challenged.

One can only hope that, as a self-declared teacher, he doesn't impart such an unquestioning and uncritical approach to his students.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grumpy Old Roy on November 19, 2013, 03:51:04 pm
Living at the end of Bradmore Way we have the parking problem three (sometimes four) times a day when, because of the narrowness of the road we can only exit our dwelling by driving over the grass verge. On these occasions the parking fraternity show a complete lack of courtesy by reversing on to our drives, discard their cigarette butts in road and even stay chating for long periods making life very difficult several hours a day.

 Of note when the police made an inspection and requested some female parent drivers to move they were treated to unwarranted verbal abuse. We are constantly requested by parents if they can park on our drive, if fact one parent actually parked on a neighbours drive because it was raining and the children would get WET!!! You better believe it .Add to that front walls are constantly reversed into, so it is not NIMBYISM it’s a request to think of the residents when using a large 4x4 with one small child.

Might I suggest the parking sympathisers view the many sections of the verges in Bradmore Way that have become rutted mud holes due the amount of cars parked?  It’s your council rates that pay for them to be maintained.

Surely the simple answer is for the parish council take over the station parking thus (as I understand they did Welwyn) thus reducing the commuter parking and making school parking easier? Why should commuters have to pay the rail co to use their services??

Add to this some common sense and politeness by the parents who with a little thought could organise themselves (as we did in the 60/70’s) by a shift rota system of taking friends children, i.e. one car instead of three/four. Better still, as I suggested some years ago for which I got castigated that local parents organise a school train so their children could walk to school, a much healthier way to travel, wow, the stick I got for daring to suggest that. What about a school bus?

All we need is a little thought by parents, the school and the council re the station car park. Lastly and most importantly it is only a matter of time before the emergency services (fire/ambulance) will need to use Bradmore Way and will be unable to access wherever needed.

Given the above I must reluctantly vote for the parking restrictions

Grumpy Old Roy
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on November 19, 2013, 04:29:59 pm
One can only hope that, as a self-declared teacher, he doesn't impart such an unquestioning and uncritical approach to his students.

Perhaps I teach religion.


Could you actually post a comment relevant to the topic, rather than your personal views on forum members, who you clearly look down your nose at. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on November 19, 2013, 04:35:12 pm
Given the above I must reluctantly vote for the parking restrictions

Given the fact that the parking restriction proposed is only from 10-12pm, I would imagine this will have precisely zero effect on school pickup/drop off times which seems to be your main complaint?

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grumpy Old Roy on November 19, 2013, 05:05:51 pm
 Hi James
 The 10am to 12am restrictions will deter day long commuter parkers reducing the amount of cars thus hopefully freeing spaces for the for school parking, what is the is the alternative other than what I have already suggested. We cannot continue unrestricted parking as is now. What ever happens some will displeased, but surely the residents considerations should be paramount.

However, the restrictions must be conditional that residents are free of any charge's, i.e., free parking permits.

GOR
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on November 19, 2013, 05:39:00 pm
Can I just clarify that the '10-12 restriction' refers to no parking at all in Bradmore & Peplins during that period? Admittedly I don't live in one of these roads but from what I've seen on a daily basis, I think it is the only way (short of somehow persuading the station car park to a. let commuters park for free or b. sell the lease/freehold to the council who will do the same) of clearing the road of commuters' cars which are often there from 7am to 7pm. Granted, I have witnessed or heard about some appalling parent parking since my children have been at the school (including a car parking ON a driveway, not just across it, without the homeowner's permission!!) but this is transient & usually clear by 9.05, & yet the parking problems persist all day.

One of my concerns, like some others on this forum, is for the welfare of the village shops & I also wonder where parents driving to collect their children from the nursery class at 11.45am will park. By parking in the village rather than by the school they will simply be compounding the problem for the shops. I wonder why the restriction can't be shorter - say 10-11am? It will still sort out the commuter problem.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peeplins on November 19, 2013, 07:48:53 pm
Can I just clarify that the '10-12 restriction' refers to no parking at all in Bradmore & Peplins during that period?

One of my concerns, like some others on this forum, is for the welfare of the village shops & I also wonder where parents driving to collect their children from the nursery class at 11.45am will park. By parking in the village rather than by the school they will simply be compounding the problem for the shops. I wonder why the restriction can't be shorter - say 10-11am? It will still sort out the commuter problem.

Yes you're right Helen, and I raised this issue on the form we are being asked to complete and return to vote for or against the proposal.  If parents collecting from Nursery are forced to park in the centre of the Village, this will have an impact on those who wish to park to visit the shops.  Additionally some parents who collect from Nursery at 11:45 will park in Peplins/Bradmore either visit shops before/after 11:45 pick up.   There is also an impact for the shops/businesses in the Village Centre as their staff also have parking requirements.

TBH this is a Village not a town, and all we need to do is to prevent commuters parking and clogging the roads near the station without causing an impact to those residents and visitors to our village, whether they are visiting relatives/friends or using the services of the village shops and businesses!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 19, 2013, 07:58:19 pm
In Westland, the restrictions are 2hrs, but it's 1 hour one side of the road, then an hour the other side. We don't get a permit to park on the road - but have to remember to move cars if we get to the 11 o'clock switch over. It's stopped the commuters - we used to have people parked down our road for 2 weeks at a time while they went on holiday. I know I don't have the right to the road outside my house - but neither should a public road be treated like a long term car park!

I think the school mentioned a "walking train" thing a few years ago - take up was so little that they didn't go ahead. I guess for those of us that walk it seems a no-brainer to even attempt to drive, but the ones that drive will never be persuaded not to. When my daughter started nursery she was the smallest in the whole school (and for those that know me, she's not much bigger now!) - but she managed to walk to school and back (or scoot if she was tired/we were running late). There is no excuse for the rudeness and bizarre parking that goes on though - it seems madness that the police often monitor the entrance at 3.15 just because of the inconsiderate nature of their driving.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on November 19, 2013, 08:04:26 pm
Hmm, so what about say, a 10-11am  restriction in Bradmore then an 11-12 one in Peplins? It achieves what you're looking for re. commuters but allows shoppers & shopkeepers, plus the nursery parents, a place to park, even if they have to move their car during the day. Not ideal but, as I said before, the ideal option of free parking at the station just ain't gonna happen!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on November 19, 2013, 10:23:27 pm
the ideal option of free parking at the station just ain't gonna happen!

Why not? If enough of the community pull together.... are the community willing to though? Are there enough people willing to put the effort in? Someone else up the thread mentioned that Welwyn had done it.. so why can't we?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grumpy Old Roy on November 20, 2013, 11:14:03 am
 It seems we are all of a like mined opinion that part of the parking solution could be for the Parish Council to persuade who ever can make the decision to open up the station car park as I understand they did in Welwyn for the same reasons. Yes, make a modest charge, £1/£2. I believe the objections were that it would be abused by shoppers using it, what nonsense, we do not have shopping malls in the village (YET) so may I request that can those of influence please investigate the possibility of the above.

We moved here as we (like many others) always viewed Brookmans Park as a haven for our dotage. However, the growing trend of replacing house's with apartment buildings plus the increase attendance at the school means the situation will only get worse and the sanctuary of the village is being slowly, but surely eroded.   

I know change cannot be stopped, or should be, but we must not let the thrice daily invasion of the two thirds empty motor vehicles override all other considerations. Remember, need, always creates more need, so until we find an alternative, regretfully, parking restrictions it must be. 

Grumpy Old Roy 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nimbus on November 20, 2013, 12:03:16 pm
It seems we are all of a like mined opinion that part of the parking solution could be for the Parish Council to persuade who ever can make the decision to open up the station car park as I understand they did in Welwyn for the same reasons. Yes, make a modest charge, £1/£2. I believe the objections were that it would be abused by shoppers using it, what nonsense, we do not have shopping malls in the village (YET) so may I request that can those of influence please investigate the possibility of the above.

Given that commuters should have had their fill by 09:00, then shoppers would only be taking up, for relatively short periods, whatever space is left over. So the objection you noted should not have stood up.

Assuming that parking commuters are drawn in from the hinterland, rather than the parish, it would be important (to parish funding) that the parish council did not end up subsidising their parking.

We could do with the same in Welham Green!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aloo on November 22, 2013, 06:43:03 pm
I voted in favour of the yellow lines as it would help reduce the congestion at the top of Peplins and Bradmore and is the only option proposed by WHBC that will tackle the problem of Peplins being a single track road for much of the day.  Sad - because it will also effect local shop workers - but I can't see any other way to reduce the amount of commuters leaving their cars at the top of the road and the hazard this causes to residents trying to get into and out of Peplins.   

Also as has been pointed out in other posts, the yellow lines won't solve the problem of the school run traffic, but I suspect that short of making the parking restriction from 8.00-9.00 and from 14.45- 15.45 (only joking!) then residents, will have to continue to adjust their comings and goings where possible. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 23, 2013, 03:33:17 pm
Roy says: ‘The 10am to 12am restrictions will deter day long commuter parkers reducing the amount of cars thus hopefully freeing spaces for the for school parking’.
It’s not clear what Roy is referring to. Assuming that Roy is talking about the school staff parking; then we’ve already established that is not an issue; all but 2 or 3 cars are parked inside the school ground; that’s what the school staff themselves say.
So is Roy talking about the ‘school run’ parking? If so the school runs (as has previously been pointed out) are outside the proposed 10-12 AM parking restrictions, so will have no bearing.
So are we talking about the commuter parking?  Is it that he (Roy) wants commuter parking to be restricted to allow for the school run parking?
Or is it that Roy (and others) as a matter of principle, simply don’t want any non-resident parking; never mind the fact that it’s a public road and (as we’ve seen) the supposed congestion is easily negotiated, the only ones with problems are residents with poor driving skills (and there more than a few of those).
It seems there are those who look out of their window and object to seeing the parked cars of others.
Redman says: ‘I voted in favour of the yellow lines as it would help reduce the congestion at the top of Peplins and Bradmore and is the only option proposed by WHBC that will tackle the problem of Peplins being a single track road for much of the day’. To which I reply: If that were the case (which it definitely isn’t) would it matter? Perhaps Redman can explain why it matters to him. And ps: I and others drive through in either direction without undue difficulty most of the time; the only time it’s difficult is at school run times, when there’s ‘one-way traffic’. Does Redman (and others) object to this period of one-way traffic?
So: it’s largely irrational narrow-minded thinking, nimbyism, and self-interest. And we’ll end up with ugly yellow lines because of it. And if the village shops suffer, tough. Such community and public spirit!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 23, 2013, 05:00:39 pm
I'm not sure that calling people names is helpful (calling people narrow-minded, or commenting on their driving ability)

I have several friends down Bradmore - one mid way between village and school, and the other almost on top of the school. Even if I drop in during the day (not at school rush time) I would be hard pushed to park outside their house - I usually resort to parking over their driveways. That would imply that the parking problem is NOT school related (and I'm a walk to school parent, so not defending the parents un-necessarily). I once made the mistake of parking in my friends drive - the access to either reverse in or reverse out was horrific (and I like to think of myself as a fairly competent driver)

Surely a down-side of commuting is that of parking - I'm not sure what the issue is with parking in the car park and having to pay? Most I have spoken to have said that at some point during their working life they've had to pay to park at work/to commute, so has something changed in the work ethic in the last 6 years (since I've worked)?

As for the village shops - most shopping in the village is done in under an hour. I would assume a lot of the customers are BP based anyway - so the vast majority could walk! If it's going to take more than an hour, park somewhere the restrictions are limiting but not prohibitive (like Westland). A lot of the shop keepers have parking at the rear, some even live in the Village!!

The parking restrictions have worked well in Westland - we no longer have the "single file only" issue on the corner - although I appreciate that the problem we had seems to have just re-located itself to Bradmore/Peplins
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 24, 2013, 10:10:52 am
In answer to mannyd (23Nov @ 5PM).

Reading your post, in summary it seems to say: ‘I live in Westland Drive but I want yellow lines in Bradmore Way so I can park outside my friends’ houses when I visit’.

The proper way of dealing with these things is to identify and consider each strand separately.

You state (for periods outside the school runs): ‘I would be hard pushed to park outside their house [in Bradmore] - I usually resort to parking over their driveways’.

I answer: Your post implies that you believe that you have a ‘higher right’ to park in Bradmore Way than others simply because you have friends there. Is that the case? (I know of others who also assert this!). Only 8 of the 60 houses in Bradmore Way have only one driveway parking space; 32 have two, others have more. Can I assume that the friends you refer to are members of the 8, and only have one space?

You state (apparently in the context of a school run): ‘I once made the mistake of parking in my friends drive [in Bradmore?] - the access to either reverse in or reverse out was horrific…’.

I answer:  Yes, of course you couldn’t park – lots of others were doing what you were doing!

I’m glad to hear that you now walk to the school; I only wish more parents did so. (It would be interesting to know how many parents drive her (a lot it seems) and more importantly and how far they come and could walk; but I digress).

Your post begs a repeat of obvious questions that go towards the essence (I’m not being personal):
(a)   Do you (or does anybody else) consider they have a ‘right’ to park here during school runs (whilst delivering to/ picking up from the school);
(b)   Do you (or does anybody else) object to the school run?
(c)   Do you (or does anybody else) consider they have a ‘higher right’ to park here (outside of school runs) than anybody else?
(d)   Do Bradmore / Peplins Way residents object to the sight of cars parked in the street?

I never said I thought the parking issue was school (run) related (please re-read my posts). It isn’t (apart from 20 minutes twice a day and then it’s over). The school runs just happens to be ‘one of those things’; it isn’t (or shouldn’t) cause issues for reasonable residents (many of whom moved here because of the schools but may have forgotten); and might even be considered a compliment.

As to the quality of driving we have to differ; I’ve seen bad examples in Peplins and Bradmore, mostly involving residents entering / exiting driveways (suggest you look at a recent post on this). Sometimes it resembles children on a playground rocking-horse ride. I recall hearing about a local incident some years ago where a child was knocked over by a car reversing out of a driveway (a tactic which could, I suspect, lead to a charge of driving without due care and attention). I repeat that most driveways in both roads are navigable by reasonable drivers, even when the street parking is full. Only those with poor driving skills should have problems.

Village shops: Nobody’s asked their views (one shopkeeper rang Parking Services and was told ‘it’s none of your business – you’re just a shopkeeper’; and then they’re almost put out of business by Business Rates!) (Mr Shapps, what are you doing about this?). Observation and asking them suggests contrary to your view, most of the ‘service’ shops – hairdressers, healthcare – have visits on 1 hour plus. You don’t mention the 10-12 No Parking restriction: even the ‘short stay’ shops (hardware, newsagent) fear it will hit them. I suggest you go and ask them yourself. The Council’s survey / analysis is simply wrong (insufficient weigh to the school-run short-term, so undervaluing the stay length outside the school run period).

Station parking:  I agree it would be nice if commuters were to be prepared to pay to use the station car park. But they’re’ clearly not (profiteering by the railway co’s & financing banks eg HSBC following the flawed privatization). But are these commuters who won’t pay any different to the residents who want to reserve the streets for themselves and don’t want to pay for permits? You admit that restrictions in Westland have simply pushed the issue into somebody else’s patch. Chungdokwan’s (post July 17) analysis and proposal (no lines, signs and free permits) was right; but would the council listen?).

Finally, my posting is not ‘calling names’ (although you may think so). To state the obvious, to understand the real (as opposed to the imagined) issue one has to identify and examine each component, weigh them, and come to an unbiased dis-interested conclusion (even if one does have an interest). That is what I’ve sought to do. Decide for yourself whether you think the debate does this. I stand by my views. In fact your post has reinforced them. Meanwhile I’m happy to be challenged and proven wrong.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 24, 2013, 06:48:58 pm
OK:

1. I NEVER drive to do a school run. Absolutely NEVER. Wind, hail, driving rain - we walk! That's the rules in our house, and always has been.
2. I do not object to the school run - but I think more parents could walk if a bit of effort were made.
3. I DO NOT think I have a right to drive and park down Bradmore just because my friends live there. I sometimes have heavy/bulky things to deliver to my friend - hence the need to park - and always done between the hours of 10 and 2.

So, no - I don't try and reverse out of her drive during a school run, because I am on foot (so, please don't make assumptions). Her driveway has parking for 3 - but I would not park in her drive because of trying to get in and out (outside of school run times).

I don't think anyone objects to the sight of cars in their road. But inconsiderate parking? Yes. In westland the problem was so bad we often didn't get our bins emptied because the refuse truck could not get through, luckily no-one ever needed an emergency vehicle!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on November 24, 2013, 07:11:09 pm
Well said mannyd! On the subject of inconsiderate parking, although digressing slightly, the other day I had to turn round in Oaklands because of parking on both sides of the road - you couldn't squeeze a car, let alone an emergency vehicle, through the gap.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on November 24, 2013, 08:59:20 pm
If this was really an issue about inconsiderate parking, that could be resolved by yellow lines down one side of the road. I think Tubbs is right - this is really about people wanting to reserve the space outside their homes for visitors/people they want, or to keep the road entirely clear. As has already been said, restricted parking in Bradmore/Peplins will only push the problem onto someone else's road, until they too get yellow lines, and eventually half the village has them.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ratta on November 25, 2013, 12:40:12 pm
As someone who lives in Peplins Way close to the school I don't have a problem with people parking in the road. They have as much right to park there as I do.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 25, 2013, 04:26:36 pm
UNBELIEVABLE BEHAVIOUR (or maybe not)
Time: Today about 3:13 PM (which as everbody knows, is in the school run period)
Fact: A huge anti-clockwise queue along Bradmore Way and the first part of Peplins Way.
Why?  A car in Peplins Way being driven clockwise up Peplins into Bradmore; encounters the school-run traffic coming anti-clockwise.
Result: Stalemate
Where did the car come from?: A Peplins Way resident of 10 years, should know the situation (kids used to be at the primary school, now apparently somewhere else (I suppose it was a journey to pick them up?).
What happened?: Someone approached the said car, apparently had a few words, after which the car driver eventually reversed, but experienced difficulty turning (which should have been easy).
So: If this is typical (and I suggest it is) the big traffic queues at school run time that some complain about seem to be no more than bad driving by local residents.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on November 25, 2013, 08:44:49 pm
In answer to mannyd (23Nov @ 5PM).

Reading your post, in summary it seems to say: ‘I live in Westland Drive but I want yellow lines in Bradmore Way so I can park outside my friends’ houses when I visit’.

The proper way of dealing with these things is to identify and consider each strand separately.

You state (for periods outside the school runs): ‘I would be hard pushed to park outside their house [in Bradmore] - I usually resort to parking over their driveways’.

I answer: Your post implies that you believe that you have a ‘higher right’ to park in Bradmore Way than others simply because you have friends there. Is that the case? (I know of others who also assert this!). Only 8 of the 60 houses in Bradmore Way have only one driveway parking space; 32 have two, others have more. Can I assume that the friends you refer to are members of the 8, and only have one space?

You state (apparently in the context of a school run): ‘I once made the mistake of parking in my friends drive [in Bradmore?] - the access to either reverse in or reverse out was horrific…’.

I answer:  Yes, of course you couldn’t park – lots of others were doing what you were doing!

I’m glad to hear that you now walk to the school; I only wish more parents did so. (It would be interesting to know how many parents drive her (a lot it seems) and more importantly and how far they come and could walk; but I digress).

Your post begs a repeat of obvious questions that go towards the essence (I’m not being personal):
(a)   Do you (or does anybody else) consider they have a ‘right’ to park here during school runs (whilst delivering to/ picking up from the school);
(b)   Do you (or does anybody else) object to the school run?
(c)   Do you (or does anybody else) consider they have a ‘higher right’ to park here (outside of school runs) than anybody else?
(d)   Do Bradmore / Peplins Way residents object to the sight of cars parked in the street?

I never said I thought the parking issue was school (run) related (please re-read my posts). It isn’t (apart from 20 minutes twice a day and then it’s over). The school runs just happens to be ‘one of those things’; it isn’t (or shouldn’t) cause issues for reasonable residents (many of whom moved here because of the schools but may have forgotten); and might even be considered a compliment.

As to the quality of driving we have to differ; I’ve seen bad examples in Peplins and Bradmore, mostly involving residents entering / exiting driveways (suggest you look at a recent post on this). Sometimes it resembles children on a playground rocking-horse ride. I recall hearing about a local incident some years ago where a child was knocked over by a car reversing out of a driveway (a tactic which could, I suspect, lead to a charge of driving without due care and attention). I repeat that most driveways in both roads are navigable by reasonable drivers, even when the street parking is full. Only those with poor driving skills should have problems.

Village shops: Nobody’s asked their views (one shopkeeper rang Parking Services and was told ‘it’s none of your business – you’re just a shopkeeper’; and then they’re almost put out of business by Business Rates!) (Mr Shapps, what are you doing about this?). Observation and asking them suggests contrary to your view, most of the ‘service’ shops – hairdressers, healthcare – have visits on 1 hour plus. You don’t mention the 10-12 No Parking restriction: even the ‘short stay’ shops (hardware, newsagent) fear it will hit them. I suggest you go and ask them yourself. The Council’s survey / analysis is simply wrong (insufficient weigh to the school-run short-term, so undervaluing the stay length outside the school run period).

Station parking:  I agree it would be nice if commuters were to be prepared to pay to use the station car park. But they’re’ clearly not (profiteering by the railway co’s & financing banks eg HSBC following the flawed privatization). But are these commuters who won’t pay any different to the residents who want to reserve the streets for themselves and don’t want to pay for permits? You admit that restrictions in Westland have simply pushed the issue into somebody else’s patch. Chungdokwan’s (post July 17) analysis and proposal (no lines, signs and free permits) was right; but would the council listen?).

Finally, my posting is not ‘calling names’ (although you may think so). To state the obvious, to understand the real (as opposed to the imagined) issue one has to identify and examine each component, weigh them, and come to an unbiased dis-interested conclusion (even if one does have an interest). That is what I’ve sought to do. Decide for yourself whether you think the debate does this. I stand by my views. In fact your post has reinforced them. Meanwhile I’m happy to be challenged and proven wrong.

TBH you want to get out more and get yourself a life.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 25, 2013, 09:34:58 pm
In reply to Bedlam.

I can only say, on behalf of the community, thank you so much for your well thought through and constructive contribution to the debate. We really could do with more intelligent and thoughtful people such as yourself, who are prepared to critically examine posts on issues and share them for the greater good. God Bless You.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 25, 2013, 09:56:53 pm
I agree with Bedlam. . . . I've entered the debate, given my view, and now just feel we're going in circles. . . . I'm up for trying to get a point across, but have tried and now time to get on with my other life (and Xmas!)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 25, 2013, 10:31:18 pm
I agree with Bedlam. . . . I've entered the debate, given my view, and now just feel we're going in circles. . . . I'm up for trying to get a point across, but have tried and now time to get on with my other life (and Xmas!)
Mannyd,
Even if our views differ, I thank you for entering into a constructive dialogue. But like me, I'm sure you'll consider that responses such as 'get a life' don't even qualify for 'going round in circles'! Meanwhile, I send seasonal geetings.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: DrChris on November 26, 2013, 10:48:08 am
I have only just heard of this issue, and am  ??? at why the council didn't let us, the local businesses know.

Having read through the forum I think the only solution is free station car parking to ease congestion.

Being a 'shop' owner in the village I can see that many of us, and those that work in the offices, will now have to move our cars at 10, causing a second problem time. And then again at 12 causing a third problem time.

This also brings the question 'where will we park?' On another road in Brookmans Park.

If the parking restrictions come in then I could see the problem only getting worse, not better.

It will also cause problems for about 25% of my clients who will have to park further away.  Seeing as they come to me in pain, this may cause issues for them and mean they get dropped of directly in front of the clinic.

I am sure other businesses will be effected.

With less parking there will be a steady trickle of customers to other areas, eventually all the local stores will go and everyone will have to get in a car a drive to Potters Bar to shop.

Be Well

Chris
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on November 26, 2013, 11:37:25 am
I have only just heard of this issue, and am  ??? at why the council didn't let us, the local businesses know.

...
Chris

Dr Chris: Your post implies that the Council ,never included the shops in their circulara re: parking consultation. Is that the case? (The circulars are variously addressed to the 'resident/occupier' or the 'resident'. The circulars and the underlying survey are all on the council web link given at the beginning of this subject post.) I seriously suggest that you check with the other shopkeepers. Without any doubt it's THE SHOPS who will suffer most if yellow lines / parking restrictions are imposed. Residents would ultimately feel that impact indirecttly over the course of time. If you haven't been circulated / informed / consulted then, by any standards, that would be a serious failing by the council, for which you should have collective redress. Please post your findings and how you get on.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on November 26, 2013, 11:44:17 am
When the station car park was free I don't think it was used very much by shoppers. I think most felt it was too far from the shops.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2013, 11:51:08 am
When the station car park was free I don't think it was used very much by shoppers. I think most felt it was too far from the shops.
Maybe not John, but at least it would free up the nearby roads for shoppers to park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on November 26, 2013, 11:52:12 am
... & shopkeepers.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BPNEWBIE on November 26, 2013, 10:37:56 pm
Just throwing another reason for the amount of parking in Bradmore and Peplins .... the Co-op getting their delivery around 3pm and the truck parking across numerous spaces!!

Also, perhaps if the Council had given us a proper crossing on Bluebridge Road more people would walk their children to school
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on November 26, 2013, 10:45:48 pm
Dr Chris: Your post implies that the Council ,never included the shops in their circulara re: parking consultation. Is that the case?

I actually did a freedom of information request to the council a couple of weeks ago about the parking consultation because i was wondering this as well. I asked them 3 questions, the results of which are displayed below :

Quote
Thank you for your request for information received on 18th November 2013. Please see the response below.
 
Q1 – How many residents/businesses was the consultation sent to and which roads they lived in?
 
A.      – A total of 1242 letters were sent to separate addresses, listed as below
 
Ash Close, Bluebridge Avenue, Bradmore Green, Bradmore Way, Brookmans Avenue, Calder Avenue, Georges Wood Road, Golf Club Road, Green Close, Moffatts Close, Moffatts Lane, Mymms Drive, Oaklands Avenue, Park Close, Peplins Close, Peplins Way, Pine Grove, Shrublands, Station Close, The Close, The Drive, The Gardens, The Grove, Upland Drive, Westland Drive, Woodlands.
 
Q2 – How many residents/businesses responded to the consultation?
 
A.      – Replies were received from 208 separate addresses
 
Q3 – Of these, how many complained about the lack of parking spaces?
 
A.      – There were 185 complaints about parking (includes shortage of spaces, obstructive parking etc. The following roads were subject of complaint;
 
Bluebridge Avenue 11, Bradmore Way 42, Bradmore Green 11, Brookmans Avenue 36, Green Close 3, Moffatts Lane 8, Mymms Drive 1, Oaklands Avenue 5, Peplins Close 4, Peplins Way 39, Pine Grove 7, Station Close 1, The Gardens 12, The Grove 1, Westland Drive 4
 
Nb- residents did not necessarily reside in the address complained of. Many complained of several locations in the same letter of reply.

The above suggests that businesses in Bradmore Green were asked for their opinions.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BPNEWBIE on November 27, 2013, 08:37:26 am
I wouldn't count on the shopkeepers getting consulted, Bluebridge Road did not get letters so had no opinion on the parking in the village!! letters were sent after saying sorry!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: southbury on November 27, 2013, 11:12:53 am
Whatever solution is arrived upon here I feel  we need to put the success of our local businesses first and inconvenience to residents second. I consider myself very fortunate to live in this community for many reasons, not least of all due to the fact that we have local 'independent' shops. Many of those shops and businesses are run , as we all know, by local residents who support the community in many other ways > Bryan being an obvious example. If we threaten our shops we lose a big part of our Community.
If more people were prepared to walk to the Village / School  ( those that can) this problem could be solved immediately. How about making 3 or 4 bays for ‘ Disabled’ use so that those with mobility issues can park ( and still use the Village’s amenities) and encourage more people to leave their cars at home.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on November 27, 2013, 03:45:29 pm
As a Peplins Way resident I think the whole issue of school run parking is NOT the issue.

With the exception of a few residents who've been here 50+ years we all knew the primary school was here and that would inevitably lead to traffic and short term parking around school times. The extra vehicles parking at these times affect the ability of shoppers to park just as they always have.

The issue is commuter parking, by their very nature they are parked all day. This means that these take away spaces that could be used by shoppers (or dare I say it, residents and their visitors) all day.

The problem could be solved in a few ways in my opinion :

1. Make the station car park free so there is no reason for commuters to park in local streets.
2. Increase the cost of the car park to match that at Potters Bar - thereby meaning that if people have to pay to park they may just as well drive to Potters Bar where there is a superior service into London and implement parking restrictions to stop all day parking.

Sadly, I can't see option 1 becoming a reality.

I'm not unduly bothered by commuter parking as such but I am bothered by inconsiderate parking, commuter or otherwise. There have been lots of instances of cars parked on the left side of Peplins parked in such a way that it is really quite dangerous to exit a driveway.

However one neighbour of mine has 5 cars and as at least two of the cars belong to family members who usually commute on the train that will be a major issue (given a modest Peplins Way driveway cannot accomodate 5 cars at once if the proposed parking restrictions come into force.)

Option 3. There is one last option (but this will undoubtably result in cries of nimbyism I'm sure) - implement the proposed restrictions but these are to be exempt for any vehicle registered to that road either by way of a traffic warden using technology to query the DVLA database or using some sort of permit system.

The fact is, there is no simple solution that will please everyone.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on November 28, 2013, 01:15:02 am
...  exempt for any vehicle registered to that road either by way of a traffic warden using technology to query the DVLA database ...

Can't see warden's being allowed access to DVLA/PNC under these circ's and some people will drive company cars not registered in the street. You would need a permit system.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on November 28, 2013, 11:37:11 am
Yes, good point about the company cars.

I'd be suprised if traffic wardens can't get access to the DVLA data when private companies like The Galleria can access this data to send parking tickets through the post to you.

But yes, a permit system would probably be the only way to enforce it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on November 28, 2013, 02:17:20 pm
I'd be suprised if traffic wardens can't get access to the DVLA data when private companies like The Galleria can access this data to send parking tickets through the post to you.

Wardens would need instant access, sure anyone can apply for info from DVLA if they fill out the forms and wait a week or two. However unrestricted on-the-spot access like the poilce have, that is another matter. The Galleria certainly would not get that.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 28, 2013, 02:49:17 pm
When they did the consultation for Westlands, I think the idea of residents/visitors permits was brought up....we didn't get them!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: RuralFox on December 01, 2013, 10:07:07 pm
The main problem with commuter car parking is in Brookmans Avenue.  This is a through-road which is becoming blocked by parked cars from the chemist shop onwards for several hundred metres.  It would be interesting to know where all these cars come from!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on December 02, 2013, 09:41:36 am
Given the almost relentless re-construction work on the avenue, cars belonging to members of the building trade possibly.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on December 02, 2013, 11:41:35 am
I understand from one of the Brookmans Park shop owners that Parking Services are now planning to festoon almost the entire village green curb-side with double yellow lines, though this is anecdotal and I have seen no written evidence. This issue wasn't brought up as a possibility in any of the previous so-called consultation letters. The Localism Act 2011 was, I understand, meant to devolve aspects decision making to local authorities and also to involve them more in decisions being taken by higher levels of local and also national government. The most local of authorities in this area is North Mymms Parish Council (NMPC).  Perhaps this is an issue that should be taken up by NMPC?



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on December 02, 2013, 05:20:18 pm
The main problem with commuter car parking is in Brookmans Avenue.  This is a through-road which is becoming blocked by parked cars from the chemist shop onwards for several hundred metres.  It would be interesting to know where all these cars come from!

Rural Fox says: ‘The main problem with commuter car parking is in Brookmans Avenue.’
Yes, there are vehicles parked (on left side going up). And yes, sometimes there’s a small queue. All over in 60 seconds or less. Done it myself loads of times, given way to others, etc. No problem. Perhaps RuralFox considers this too long.
The biggest problem at this point in Brookmans Avenue is the same one as exists in the rest of this ‘community’: the general level of driver thoughtlessness / selfishness / stupidity/ inability to control their nice expensive car.
An incident today at 3:10PM at the village end of Brookmans Avenue. A gardening company transit van, with loaded trailer, coming out of the village, going up the hill, on the right side of the (at that time unobstructed) right side of the road, passing the parked cars on the left. A nice expensive car comes down the hill; hasn’t yet entered the bit where the cars are parked on the other side (the right); and can (or should) clearly see the van & trailer lumbering up the hill. What does the driver do: Recognise that the van/trailer is going up a bit of a hill, laden; recognise that the van/trailer might have trouble ‘pulling over’ between the parked cars; perhaps hold back for 10 seconds while the van passes; or even steering to the left side so they can pass? Oh no: With righteousness on his/her side, the driver heads straight into the narrow bit, causing both her and the van/trailer to come to a stop. Result: stalemate. A pedestrian passer-by, observing this fiasco, speaks to the car driver, suggests nicely that ‘didn’t you see that the van has a trailer?’ The car driver:  ’Well he shouldn’t be there he’s on the wrong side of the road’. Passer-by suggests the car reverses.  Driver now displays his/her supreme driving skills. Seems not to know forward from reverse; shunting like a rocking horse.
Meanwhile, another car has pulled up behind. That driver (Impatient No 2) gets fed up; obviously another busy person. Impatient No 2 tries to overtake the rocking horse by pulling out to the right and squeezing through the narrow gap between the front of the rocking horse and the car parked on the left. If he’d made it he’d be in the same position as the rocking horse: face-to-face stalemate with the van& trailer. As it was the rocking horse driver never saw Impatient No 2; and nearly drove into his nearside front wing!

I can only suggest that the Moderators of this ‘community’ forum open up a page where stories of driving / parking fiascos can be read by all.

But never mind, we're all going to get yellow lines - on behalf of 'the community'!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on December 02, 2013, 06:46:57 pm
I have now seen the most recent shops' consultation letter and, yes, it would appear that an executive (unelected) branch of Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council - specifically the Parking Services department think that our village green isn't really colourful enough and that it would greatly benefit from a surrounding liberal dash of thick double yellow lines and the imposition of a number of new disabled parking bays.

We are most fortunate to have a full complement of shops and they make Brookmans Park a rather unusually vibrant little community. Let's ensure it stays that way and let's not have these draconian parking restrictions imposed upon us that, as sure a eggs are eggs and fish are fish, will undoubtedly harm our thriving businesses.

Yellow Parkus Contagiosum - BEGONE



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Dezza on December 02, 2013, 10:40:46 pm
By 'Vibrant' do you mean impossible to park outside of the Chemist, the Co-op and Andrew Ward, because inconsiderate people double park behind one while they 'pop into the shops', meaning one can't exit until they've returned to their cars? Or having difficultyreversing out of the bays, there, because people park on the yellow lines by the Fish and Chip shop?
Or having to negotiate the length of parked cars opposit Fine and Country because people park on the yellow lines at either end of the parking stretch? Or having to negotiate the blockage when drivers park outside the Post Office?
 


Yellow Parkus Contagiosum - BEGONE
[/quote]
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Tubbs on December 02, 2013, 11:23:36 pm
Dezza askes: 'By 'Vibrant' do you mean impossible to park ... or having to negotiate the blockage when drivers park outside the Post Office? '

The answer must be Yes! Accepting the little wrinkles and tolerance is what is meant by community... isn't it??
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on December 03, 2013, 09:00:07 am
Reading some of the posts on this forum is a real treat sometimes. On a par with some of Jeremy Vine's ranting phone ins.

Returning to the subject in hand, it seems Welham Green is now in for the same, or rather, as Roger used to say, 'similar' treatment - interestingly some of the proposal that I've just read refers to residents' parking permits. Clearly, Parking Services is demonstrating that it's a pro-active, innovative department and a force to be reckoned with and shouldn't be downsized or re-deployed to carry out more useful functions.

Here's a choice extract from the latest consultation document:

"Double Yellow Lines
Double yellow lines can only be used in areas where you want to prevent all parking; they are best used near junctions or busy main roads. Double yellow lines apply 24 hours a day seven days a week. They apply equally to non-residents, residents and visitors. No signs are needed."

Whatever they are being paid in Parking Services it's not enough in my opinion.

Residents' parking permits are really the best solution if we have to have something imposed on us.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ADM on December 03, 2013, 10:12:46 am
I'm not sure what the problem is that we are trying to solve.

If it's "some people park poorly outside my house causing me problems in getting out" then I think that yellow lines or other parking restrictions are not an appropriately focused solution.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2014, 12:04:33 pm
Just saw a woman who was walking with two sticks down Moffats being forced to leave the pavement and walk in the road because a car was parked blocking her way. She was not happy. I decided to post this on her behalf. If the person who parked the car reads this, please park on the road in future and leave the pavement for pedestrians.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on February 03, 2014, 07:42:59 pm
I spoke to a woman this morning who was pushing a pram and walked round on the road to get past the same car.  I advised her to knock on the door of the house and ask them to move the car.
Makes me so angry. :(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Midnight on February 03, 2014, 11:50:52 pm
Yes. Very selfish parking indeed. There tends to be quite of bit of chicane building with parked cars at this end of Moffats and quite often by regulars who park close to the junction. Most odd as the houses here have driveways with space for a couple of cars at least.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on February 04, 2014, 09:25:11 am
Same car parked on the same bit of pavement again this morning  >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on February 04, 2014, 09:49:10 am
Has anyone put a note on the windscreen ? Or even a copy of this web page.

Some people are so oblivious to the needs of other people they might even think this is acceptable behaviour.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alex on February 05, 2014, 08:27:59 am
Bang out of order. I would call the police, this can't be legal can it?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2014, 05:43:38 pm
The vehicles totally blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats are getting bigger by the day.  ::)  Today it was a massive black Audi 4x4. No arguing with that thing - it's a matter of walking in the road and dodging traffic to get round it. I hope the lady with the walking sticks managed okay.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on February 05, 2014, 06:43:09 pm
The vehicles totally blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats are getting bigger by the day.  ::)  Today it was a massive black Audi 4x4. No arguing with that thing - it's a matter of walking in the road and dodging traffic to get round it. I hope the lady with the walking sticks managed okay.
I agree having to walk in the road to dodge traffic, especially for the young and infirm is hazardous, perhaps you understand now why signs, lots of them, have been erected on GWR where there are no paths to slow traffic and make drivers aware.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2014, 06:58:38 pm
This thread is about parking on the pavement; there are no pavements on GWR.  The signage on GWR has been discussed on another thread entitled 'Speeding along local roads (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg34109.html#msg34109)'.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Nimbus on February 06, 2014, 11:02:12 am
The vehicles totally blocking the pavement at the bottom end of Moffats are getting bigger by the day.  ::)  Today it was a massive black Audi 4x4. No arguing with that thing - it's a matter of walking in the road and dodging traffic to get round it. I hope the lady with the walking sticks managed okay.

I have to confess that in similar situations, I have contemplated the use of crampons as an alternative to walking into the road!

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 07, 2014, 10:34:51 am
I guess if you are going to park on the pavement it's worth making a proper job of it and totally blocking the way for pedestrians.   ::)

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Midnight on February 07, 2014, 04:56:52 pm
Another popular parking pavement is by the beauty products shop just before the village bus stop.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: saffie on March 05, 2014, 06:22:16 pm
The parking in Oaklands has been really bad lately.  What is going on??
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 13, 2014, 01:01:32 pm
A council notice, attached to a lamppost at the the village end of Moffats, states that 'waiting at any time restrictions' are to be introduced on parts of Bluebridge Road, Moffats Lane, Bluebridge Avenue, The Gardens and Oaklands Avenue. The map, attached below, shows these restrictions will be at the junctions. You have until May 14 to object. Personally, I like the idea of having restrictions at the junction of Moffats and Bluebridge because cars park too close to the junction at times making it dangerous at times.

PS: I will eventually get round to merging half a dozen existing threads about parking in the village.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Albert Ross on May 14, 2014, 12:48:32 pm
Here is the link to this one and one for Station Close http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5235 (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5235)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2014, 01:02:19 pm
Thanks for that Albert, I have found my way to the pdfs embedded below. First, the two notice of intent for Parts of Bluebridge Road, Moffats Lane, Bluebridge Avenue, The Gardens and Oaklands Avenue, and Station Close. Two documents.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8900&p=0

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8899&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2014, 01:03:11 pm
Now the initial parking survey for Swanley Bar.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8840&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2014, 01:03:55 pm
Next the third consultation letter for Peplins and Bradmore Way

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8839&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2014, 01:05:02 pm
The second consultation letter for Bluebridge Road and The Gardens.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8672&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2014, 01:05:58 pm
And, finally, the second consultation letter for Peplins Way and Bradmore Way.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8527&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on May 14, 2014, 06:12:18 pm
Got to agree with these WelHat proposals, they should reduce obstructive parking.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 15, 2014, 07:55:23 am
Nice to see the council hasn't run out of ways to waste our money.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 15, 2014, 08:12:22 am
Nice to see the council hasn't run out of ways to waste our money.

I don't think enforcing parking restrictions at busy junctions is a waste of money. It could prevent accidents. Too often cars parked too close to the end of Moffats force the person driving down Moffats to be on the wrong side of the road at the junction with Bluebridge as drivers turn into Moffats. There have been some near misses.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 15, 2014, 05:38:44 pm
Introducing parking restrictions costs money. These aren't required at the locations specified. Therefore they are a waste of money.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on May 15, 2014, 10:03:34 pm
Nice to see the council hasn't run out of ways to waste our money.

I don't think enforcing parking restrictions at busy junctions is a waste of money. It could prevent accidents. Too often cars parked too close to the end of Moffats force the person driving down Moffats to be on the wrong side of the road at the junction with Bluebridge as drivers turn into Moffats. There have been some near misses.

Obviously, judging  by the reasons of his reply, JF is not an Advanced Level ROSPA or IAM driver like many of us on here.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 16, 2014, 08:16:18 am
Introducing parking restrictions costs money. These aren't required at the locations specified. Therefore they are a waste of money.

I suppose if you have not experienced a few close shaves caused by people parking too close to a particular junction you might take the view that restrictions are a waste of money. If you have come close to being involved in an accident on more than one occasion because of bad parking you might take a different view.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on May 16, 2014, 09:07:48 am
I also think it's a really good idea and was pleased when I read the notice on the lamp post recently.

Maybe we should have a poll on here to see what others think.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 16, 2014, 12:15:15 pm
I've had close shaves, but never at these junctions. I very seldom see cars parked close to these junctions and on the very few occasions I do have to negotiate my way around a car parked close to the edge of these junctions I have managed to easily do it without putting myself or the car in danger.

No point having a poll. The council will do what they want as they see it as their duty to spend our money.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 16, 2014, 12:37:05 pm
I've had close shaves, but never at these junctions. I very seldom see cars parked close to these junctions and on the very few occasions I do have to negotiate my way around a car parked close to the edge of these junctions I have managed to easily do it without putting myself or the car in danger.

John, it might be that you are not around when the cars are parked too close to the corner. They might be parked after you leave for work and get moved before you get home. It could be that they are people working in the village or commuters, I don't know.

For example, there was a black VW Polo parked far too close to the junction at the end of Moffats this morning. Not sure if it's still there. It's part on the pavement, but cars still have to pull out into the lane going in the other direction to pass it. Even this morning, as I walked past, a white car pulled out to pass the parked car as a silver jag swept into Moffats. Both had to brake, which is good, and full marks to the jag driver for being on the ball - although he did swing in at a fair lick - but yellow lines could prevent this situation arising, which, in my view, is good preventative action.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on May 16, 2014, 12:59:18 pm

No point having a poll. The council will do what they want as they see it as their duty to spend our money.
My suggestion was just to see how others on this forum felt, not that the council may act on it!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 16, 2014, 01:14:17 pm
Maybe the cars only park there when I go to work and not at weekends, or bank holidays, or mornings when I leave late, or afternoons when I get home early, or any days I take off, or when I work from home, or when I'm sick and don't go to work. Somehow I doubt it. I think the problem isn't anyway near as bad as some people think.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on May 20, 2014, 09:40:43 am
I suggest that John might like to try entering The Gardens from the Potters Bar direction pretty well any day of the week and see how difficult (almost impossible) it is to see if anything is coming towards the main road past the number of parked cars.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 20, 2014, 05:01:11 pm
"Like" is probably over stating it. "Difficult", maybe, but that at most and it just means one needs to take the turning with care and drive at an appropriate speed. Not a bad thing when turning into a residential street. Of the junctions The Gardens it is certainly the most difficult. Bluebridge Avenue is wide enough to literally drive a bus through even if there were cars on both sides of the junction. Moffet's Lane isn't as wide, but still plenty of room to look if a car is driven with care.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: ADM on May 21, 2014, 01:31:43 pm
Is this the same John Fraser who, back in February 2010 said:

But these trees have been placed on the inside of a bend and are already restricting my view of it. When the trees get larger they will create a long bind spot obscuring much of my view of the road. Mine is not the only drive thus affected and glib comments about the taking heart from an increased property value will not cut it when people see the horrific damage a side impact can do.

when commenting on the introduction of a few trees (nearly two inches wide now)?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 21, 2014, 05:33:16 pm
Another example of the council following its duty to spend as much money as possible on as little of value as possible.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cataholic on May 22, 2014, 02:03:00 pm
I see the Council is consulting again on parking restrictions in Peplins Way and Bradmore Way.  Really don't see what the problem is with  yellow lines,  far better than not being able to get the car out of the drive due to inconsiderate parking by commuters. Most people have driveways for visitors or can negotiate with neighbours if not for the hour a day when the parking restriction will apply.   Parking permits are open to fraud, for example people may sell these  on to commuters for a profit.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 22, 2014, 03:18:30 pm
I see the Council is consulting again on parking restrictions in Peplins Way and Bradmore Way. 

Hi Cataholic,

I have merged your post with an existing thread on this topic. If you scroll up you will find the consultation documents embedded in the thread.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on May 22, 2014, 05:48:11 pm
1.Aren't the penalties for committing fraud of the type referred to rather more severe than either receiving a parking ticket or parking elsewhere, including pay & display car parks? If someone approached me with an offer to purchase my future residents' permit I would report them to the authorities forthwith.

2. The residents' parking scheme on Hawkshead Road appears to have been very successful and is unobtrusive, with minimal signage. Whilst yellow lines are unattractive and out of keeping in a village environment. (The double yellow lines by the vet college are an absolute disgrace and an eyesore in my opinion and should never have been sanctioned. A single white line and no stopping at any time would have been a far better solution.)

3. The sensible option is for residents only parking (a residential zone if you will), with minimal signage at the start of the two ways and no waiting ONLY between 10 am and 11 am Monday to Friday. That sorts out the commuter parking problem without ruining the environment and with a permit you'll be able to park outside all day if you want to. The first permit costs only £25 per year, which is very little. If yellow lines are imposed then I'd expect a form of musical chairs but with cars at just before 10 am, which will be amusing only at first. And it must be a heck of a lot cheaper to implement than painting all around the roads.

It's a no brainer really. Personally, this amended (far superior) solution to commuter parking should have been offered elsewhere in Brookmans Park, because you don't need to be on a cul de sac to have one (Hawshead Road isn't one and it would appear to have set a precedent therefore). Personally, I would be rather miffed if I'd found out later on that it might have been an option that I could have voted for now that it has been better presented to residents following a protest.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Casual Observer on May 27, 2014, 12:54:51 pm
I'm not quite sure where John Fraser lives but it's not Moffats Lane.  Much of the time there are cars parked at the bottom of the road within yards of the junction causing considerable danger.  If he thinks you can drive a bus through the gap I can confirm that there have been times that you can't even get an ambulance through let alone a fire engine.

I can understand the reasoning behind the restriction in Bradmore Way and Peplins but this will only move the problem to other parts of the surrounding roads.  Until the station car park is free commuters will find somewhere to park.  Perhaps it will be something for the new rail operator to think about.  Perhaps we can negotiate with them when they take over.

Frankly I am missing the point about enterprising residents leasing their parking permit to commuters in the meantime particularly if it is cheaper than the cost of the station car park (used to be the shoppers car park if I remember pre-FCC).  It may be of dubious morality but is it actually illegal?

The only restrictions that I do not see the point of are those proposed around Bradmore Green.  These are counter productive for a shopping area and should not be changed. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 27, 2014, 08:46:20 pm
I live on Bluebridge Road, not far from any of these restrictions. So no, not Moffats Lane, but then again I never said it was possible to drive a bus through the gap:

Bluebridge Avenue is wide enough to literally drive a bus through even if there were cars on both sides of the junction. Moffet's Lane isn't as wide, but still plenty of room to look if a car is driven with care.

Having said that, I have often driven an 18 seater minibus up Moffats Lane and have never found it impossible, or even memorably difficult, to turn into it, out of it or drive along it.

My objections to these markings are:
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 28, 2014, 07:49:12 am
My objections to these markings are:
  • They aren't needed. The problem isn't that great and it results in cars slowing down when turning into these roads. Surly a good thing

I think if someone has not been forced over to the wrong side of the road because of bad parking, and ended up bumper to bumper with a car sweeping into Moffats, it will probably be hard to see the risk.

Perhaps we need a sign on Bluebridge reading: Take care entering Moffats because cars might be on the wrong side of the road due to bad parking.



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Casual Observer on May 28, 2014, 12:13:20 pm

  • They will do no good. Painting lines on the road will make little difference to most drivers, who wouldn't park there. Many of the drivers who do park there will ignore the markings. I often see drivers parking on the zig zag lines outside schools, which are there to protect their children, so I doubt these markings will be observed.
  • The money could be better spent elsewhere. A dog warden to make to deter inconsiderate dog walkers who let their dog foul Gobions would be higher up my list of priorities.

Depending on whether the traffic wardens are actually operating in BP and whether they bother to walk out of the village as far as the end of Moffats Lane or The Gardens, to stop people parking on double yellow lines, is a good point.  If they don't then I have to agree it does seem a waste of time and money.

A dog warden is a good idea but I think a majority of dog walkers are responsible.  As ever, it is the few who let the side down.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on June 03, 2014, 04:31:18 pm
As I said:
Bluebridge Avenue is wide enough to literally drive a bus through

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 03, 2014, 06:52:57 pm
And it will be even easier for a bus to do a U-turn at the entrance to Bluebridge Avenue once we have nice yellow lines and that white van won't be able to park so close to the junction. :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on June 03, 2014, 10:08:20 pm
...  once we have nice yellow lines and that white van won't be able to park so close to the junction. :)

It's paint not spikes.  ;D
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: epiphany on June 23, 2014, 04:17:03 pm
Page 39 onwards in this report deals with parking in BP.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=9123&p=0 (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=9123&p=0)


Edited to remove PDF embed because it was slowing down the loading of the thread.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on June 23, 2014, 04:19:58 pm
The next meeting of the Brookmans Park Residents Association will be on Thursday 10th July 8.00pm at the BP URC.

See: http://www.brookmansparkra.org/2014/06/meeting-on-thursday-10th-july_23.html (http://www.brookmansparkra.org/2014/06/meeting-on-thursday-10th-july_23.html)


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 23, 2014, 08:44:22 pm
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: tyrrell on July 02, 2014, 12:25:52 am
As much of the parking problems in Brookmans Park arose from the closure of the council owned free station car park, could the Council consider buying back this land?


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aqila on July 02, 2014, 11:35:04 pm
Overall I believe the there is a fundamental flaw in the introduction of either parking scheme in Bradmore and Peplins– and that is that the objectives have never been defined, and therefore we cannot establish the best solution:

•   Are we trying to eliminate all road parking in these roads?  If so then neither scheme will deliver this.  There will always be cars parked in the road either paid for or outside restriction times. 
•   Are we just trying to annoy commuters?  If so they will just go elsewhere, leaving poorer shops and ultimately a reduced rail service – and the residents will pick up the cost and inconvenience of parking schemes in their own roads.

If neither of these are the objectives then why on earth are we doing this?

If there is too much parking in residential roads then we should be looking at providing more parking for commuters and shoppers (both key players in our thriving community)– e.g. taking back the station car park, or identifying additional car parking areas.

It is very sad that this whole issue has been generated by a lack of neighbourly tolerance, and we are all now being brow-beaten into accepting costly and inconvenient schemes that will irreversibly damage the shops, the station and the village as a whole and change its culture to one that is policed by traffic wardens.
   

 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on July 03, 2014, 05:11:59 pm
It is very sad that this whole issue has been generated by a lack of neighbourly tolerance, and we are all now being brow-beaten into accepting costly and inconvenient schemes that will irreversibly damage the shops, the station and the village as a whole and change its culture to one that is policed by traffic wardens.

Agreed 100%, well put Jacqui.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2014, 10:13:59 am
As much of the parking problems in Brookmans Park arose from the closure of the council owned free station car park, could the Council consider buying back this land?

This is something which the BPRA is looking into, now that the Train Operating Company is changing from 14 September 2014. The new Thameslink Southern and Great Northern (TSGN) franchise will be operated by Govia Thameslink Railway .

We have been told in the past that 'ownership' is not important, but who operates and manages it. The car park land is not registered at the Land Registry. That implies that ownership has not changed since the days of British Rail.  In 2008, Network Rail Infrastructure Limited told one of our members: "When ownership changed from British Rail to Railtrack and then to Network Rail, the land was not required to be registered. Land leased by Network Rail to the Train Operating Companies is registered."

So the land is not even leased to the Train Operating Company FCC, they just have a contract for the management and operation of the car park - which they sub-contract anyway.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on July 07, 2014, 01:44:20 pm
A reminder that the BPRA has a meeting this coming Thursday 10th July at the BP URC at 8.00pm, specifically about parking in Brookmans Park.

Vikki Hatfield, Parking Services Team Leader for Welhat will be speaking on parking issues and solutions in Brookmans Park, and is keen to meet as many residents as possible and hear their views. Ms Hatfield has invited written questions in advance, please send these via email to brookmansparkresidentsassoc@gmail.com

Please also let me know by IM if you would like to attend.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 07, 2014, 01:52:16 pm
Tweeted. Anyone on Twitter feel free to retweet the message below to help get the word/reminder out.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 09, 2014, 08:22:56 am
What next for parking in Brookmans Park?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 09, 2014, 06:49:02 pm
A reminder ...


... don't miss the opportunity.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on July 10, 2014, 12:00:46 pm
Thank you all for the many and various questions on parking in Brookmans Park which have all been forwarded to our guest speaker Vikki Hatfield. Vikki has advised me this morning that she will be accompanied tonight by Councillor Stephen Boulton.


We look forward to an interesting talk and a lively discussion.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 10, 2014, 02:58:05 pm
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 10, 2014, 03:08:05 pm
Same link, but sharper tweet.   ;)

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 25, 2014, 12:00:26 pm
An indication sprayed on Moffats Lane (village end) showing how far up the double yellow lines will go.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on July 25, 2014, 12:36:14 pm
Doesn't appear to be anyone parking at the junction, but there seldom is.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on August 21, 2014, 02:20:29 pm
Whilst on foot patrol today I have had to issue a fixed penalty notice for unnecessary obstruction in Moffats Lane and ask four other residents to move vehicles off the footpath. In places on the road the footpath is only wide enough to push a pushchair on so if you park your vehicle two wheels on the pavement it is obstructed. If you have to leave your car on the road or have visitors please park as close to the kerb as you can and move your wing mirror in. If I see a vehicle obstructing the footpath I will only knock on the nearest door I think the vehicles owner may be at. Otherwise I will be issuing a £30 fixed penalty. Its not the busiest footpath but it should be unobstructed for pedestrians.
Thank you for your anticipated co operation. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on August 21, 2014, 02:35:02 pm
Wonderful news!! Thank you William. My mother and her elderly friends have such difficulty getting down to the village when the pavements are blocked by thoughtless drivers, and those who have mobility scooters often cannot get down at all. Your interest and prompt action will make a big difference to them.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on August 21, 2014, 03:32:10 pm
Whilst on foot patrol today I have had to issue a fixed penalty notice for unnecessary obstruction and ask four other residents to move vehicles off the footpath. In places on the road the footpath is only wide enough to push a pushchair on so if you park your vehicle two wheels on the pavement it is obstructed.

Thanks Bill, I have merged your post with an existing thread on this issue and tweeted.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on August 21, 2014, 04:52:39 pm
nice one. constant problem/totally unessessary and hard to get buggy past when cars parked like that. BP
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Midnight on August 21, 2014, 05:16:01 pm
Excellent!  Many houses around the village have plenty of driveway space empty yet cars are parked up on the kerb  :( .
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on August 28, 2014, 10:12:20 am
Whilst on patrols yesterday I had to ask a number of residents to move there vehicles of the pavement. Later on I witnessed an elderly female on crutches walk into the road to get around a vehicle that had parked on the path. I issued the vehicle a £30 fixed penalty notice for obstruction. One of the vehicles I had asked to move of the footpath was a gardeners ford transit. When he parked it on the road there was plenty of space for vehicles to pass it, so I can see no reason why residents and visitors feel the need to pull up on the path. Please think of pedestrians when parking your vehicles before we have an accident on the road.
I have received a lot of support from local residents for my enforcement of pavement parking and I intend to keep issuing tickets to stop this issue.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on August 28, 2014, 10:51:02 am
Hi Bill, I have merged your latest post with an existing thread on this topic and tweeted. David

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on November 17, 2014, 04:14:08 pm
I have been sent photos of vehicles parked outside Brookmans Park primary school in Bradmore Way causing obstruction to traffic and blocking residents' driveways. I saw vehicles myself on Tuesday last week driving on the pathway to get around a car that had been left so close to a vehicle on the other side of the road that other vehicle could get past them. Fortunately a resident who had parked outside her own house came out and moved her car to free up the road. I spoke to the offending driver who's excuse was that she had been in a hurry. Residents should not have to move their vehicles. It is up to parents picking up their children to leave enough time to get to the school, park legally and make sure vehicles can get past freely and that if a resident need to get of there driveway they can.

Any vehicles I see causing an obstruction will be issued a ticket. I thank you all for your co-operation in advance. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peeplins on November 17, 2014, 06:50:12 pm
I have been sent photos of vehicles parked outside Brookmans Park primary school in Bradmore Way causing obstruction to traffic and blocking residents' driveways. I saw vehicles myself on Tuesday last week driving on the pathway to get around a car that had been left so close to a vehicle on the other side of the road that other vehicle could get past them. Fortunately a resident who had parked outside her own house came out and moved her car to free up the road. I spoke to the offending driver who's excuse was that she had been in a hurry. Residents should not have to move their vehicles. It is up to parents picking up their children to leave enough time to get to the school, park legally and make sure vehicles can get past freely and that if a resident need to get of there driveway they can.

Any vehicles I see causing an obstruction will be issued a ticket. I thank you all for your co-operation in advance.


Hear, hear!  I would also suggest you check out the parking in Peplins Way as well, there are always vehicles parked right up to the junction on Peplins Way link road or parked across driveways, "because they are in a hurry"  or "couldn't find anywhere else to park". Another favourite is to park on the white line opposite the yellow school zone zig zags opposite the back gate in Peplins,
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on November 17, 2014, 08:27:34 pm
Age old problem....I live in Westland and never drive to/from school at regular school times (but know of others in my block that do). As the residents have probable told you Bill, this happens EVERY day - your presence probably deters those on the days you are there, but it's hardly good use of police time to have a presence twice a day (and that excludes the Friday night traffic jam - commonly known as Youth Club (sorry James!). I know the school regularly flag this as an issue, and the caretaker often asks people to move - maybe the problem will change (one way or another) when the parking regulations come into force. That way people will have to park in the village or church and WALK!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: LMS on November 18, 2014, 07:04:10 pm
Are we allowed to park in the church? I had a wonderful trip to the village spoilt because one hour is just not long enough to chat with friends.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peeplins on November 18, 2014, 07:22:23 pm
LMS, I don't think you are if you are in the village for shopping or visiting other local business establishments unfortunately.


I do know that the school has an arrangement with URC that parents may use the car park at drop off / collection only to ease the pressure for parking on the roads immediately in the vicinity of the school (I.e. Bradmore/Peplins)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 18, 2014, 07:24:35 pm
Are we allowed to park in the church? I had a wonderful trip to the village spoilt because one hour is just not long enough to chat with friends.

Hi LMS, there is plenty of parking available where we live at the village end of Moffats Lane and that's less than five minutes walk from Bradmore Green.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 28, 2014, 08:07:17 am
The length of time shoppers will be able to park around Bradmore Green is to be increased from one hour to two after consultations with local businesses. The existing restrictions were considered too short for some customers. Now drivers will be able to park in the designated bays for two hours from Monday to Saturday 8am to 6.30pm. Two new disabled persons parking bays are to be introduced, and existing limited waiting restrictions are to be replaced with no waiting at anytime restrictions. Below is a pdf setting out the changes and three screen grabs from that pdf showing:

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=9583&p=0
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on December 28, 2014, 10:08:22 am
A root and branch solution to the parking in the village needs to be applied. The spaces outside the Co - op are too narrow and the huge paved area to the front of the Methi needs to be configured for parking.

Tinkering will not benefit the shops, customers or near by residents.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 28, 2014, 04:24:08 pm
I have removed the last few posts in this thread because a couple were unnecessarily personal.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on December 28, 2014, 04:38:30 pm
The new double yellow lines reduce parking spaces on Sundays and after 18:30. This won't affect the shops too much, but there are three restaurants and three take-aways which have just seen the number of available parking spaces cut during their busiest periods. The improved traffic flow isn't enough to justify this because there isn't a problem outside of time covered by the existing restrictions.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on December 30, 2014, 06:07:37 pm
The new double yellow lines reduce parking spaces on Sundays and after 18:30. This won't affect the shops too much, but there are three restaurants and three take-aways which have just seen the number of available parking spaces cut during their busiest periods. The improved traffic flow isn't enough to justify this because there isn't a problem outside of time covered by the existing restrictions.

Agreed, it's the usual Welhat etc Council's boneheaded method of using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

Edited to correct quote box
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alex on December 31, 2014, 09:07:21 am
Great, kill off the shops, make it inconvemient for villagers to park and to dine out. Pathetic!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on December 31, 2014, 09:32:47 am
Are we allowed to park in the church? I had a wonderful trip to the village spoilt because one hour is just not long enough to chat with friends.

Hi LMS, there is plenty of parking available where we live at the village end of Moffats Lane and that's less than five minutes walk from Bradmore Green.
Thats all well and good, however how does that help people who wish to use the shops who have limited time, when it is raining or have heavy shopping or children to carry.

The objective should be to make the shops as accessible as possible for the people who use them, everything else then falls into place.

Why does traffic flow need to be considered, when has there ever been an issue?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on December 31, 2014, 09:51:27 am
There are yellow lines at the end of Moffats Lane. Apparently parking there was a real issue.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on December 31, 2014, 10:11:43 am
The most sensible answer would of course be for people to use the station car park - it rarely seems to be full and isn't any further from the village centre than , say, the bottom of Moffats.

Perhaps if parking could be free there for 2 hours, this would protect the revenue stream from commuters but allow the village shops and business's customers to be able to park easily.

Or is that just too simple ?

Maybe one of the local councillors or perhaps our MP could at least look into this.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 31, 2014, 10:41:20 am
Perhaps if parking could be free there for 2 hours, this would protect the revenue stream from commuters but allow the village shops and business's customers to be able to park easily.

Sounds a great idea to me.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on December 31, 2014, 10:57:41 am
There is plenty of 'free' parking closer than the station car park to the village centre. E.g. the end of Westland Drive and Oaklands avenue through the passageway by the shops is only yellow lined for one hour a day to stop the commuters parking there but shoppers could easily park there and walk 2 minutes to the shops.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: willow22 on March 02, 2015, 06:09:10 pm
Does anyone know when the new parking restrictions come into force.  I was told the time is going to be increased from one to two hours around the shops
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: milkmade on March 02, 2015, 06:28:06 pm
i think its 1st/04/2015.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on March 04, 2015, 03:40:41 pm
they were painting lines today.

Seems silly to disallow parking after 6 on yellows as how are people ment to park to go out at night.

its usually rammed on a friday and sat night-where will those cars go (if they come at all now!)

hey ho

bp
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on March 18, 2015, 04:35:02 pm
Resident only parking enforcement on Bradmore Way goes live Monday 23rd March and fines for non permit vehicles will be issued by traffic wardens. I have started to receive complaints about Commuter parking on Moffats Lane at the bottom end near to Bluebridge Road. Vehicles coming down the hill are struggling to pass the cars which are all parked on one side with no gaps to pull into when faced with cars turning in to the road from Bluebridge Road.
I can not do anything about these vehicles as they are parked away from the junction and are not parking across the footpath. Residents will need to call highways to make them aware of the issue. There was always going to be displacement problems when Bradmore Way came into force and it will only get worse when Brookmans avenue permit parking comes into force. I would ask if you are commuting to London every day you think of residents when you leave your vehicle around the village. Now the weather is improving and with the health benefits associated I ask you to think about cycling to the station. At the moment there are only about five cycles there during the day so there is room for more. If you can cycle invest in some good lights which can be easily removed to take with you and a good cycle lock for your bike.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Albert Ross on March 18, 2015, 07:23:13 pm
We in Westland Drive are already feeling the effects as more commuters are leaving their cars in the section with no yellow lines and are sure residents in Oaklands are finding the same. All this latest move has done is move the problem into a different area and has done nothing to solve it. How long will it be before resident only parking schemes are rolled out across the whole area? >:(
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on March 18, 2015, 08:35:33 pm
Wouldn't it be a good idea if people with drives but no car rented out their spaces?  I know it happens in other areas.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on March 19, 2015, 08:01:46 am
it will only get worse when Brookmans avenue permit parking comes into force
Do you happen to know when this is planned?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on March 19, 2015, 08:11:42 am
there are only about five cycles there during the day
I think there is a perception that bikes parked at the station are prone to theft, given the station is empty for the majority of the day and night, the bike parking area is not visible from the road and is not covered by cctv. If you have access to the stats, it would be helpful to know the number of reported thefts in the last 12 months to dispel this?
Some cyclists park in the village and walk as a result.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: jmj on March 19, 2015, 08:17:35 am
Wouldn't it be a good idea if people with drives but no car rented out their spaces?  I know it happens in other areas.
There are a number of websites that facilitate this but no offers I could see in Brookmans Park yet, e.g.
https://www.justpark.com/search/?q=Brookmans+Park%2C+United+Kingdom&ac_country=GB (https://www.justpark.com/search/?q=Brookmans+Park%2C+United+Kingdom&ac_country=GB&reference=CoQBfgAAAFSN3bOiujSiJIrlDjiGgPuTcdhWzGgHAljDj6IWci-QIIMI6LlOaaQSwV-jpzZL-QutvI1NrRRmE8m08i1FUsMMcyi13_r85Ln_aMIz1VJXw4YKQDdlByvR0hRp_GNxDQzIK1xbQz2qh4ZPiQHW7ktZarPR7KtZ3o0vCMfVNMGlEhCnd_pGuZoh2_DahOI3uI6uGhQAFB1pKIse0NJqxTS2Z_NCaYIWaA&location_name=Brookmans+Park&source=autocomplete&coords=51.71817%2C-0.19949799999994866&start_date=&end_date=)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on March 19, 2015, 08:27:17 am
I am not aware of any theft of cycle or damage to cycle at Brookmans park railway station. If there have been any they may have been reported to British Transport Police who cover all railway stations. There is more chance of bike theft at main stations as they are busy all the time and thieves think they will go unnoticed. If the bike has a good lock and the front and rear wheel is locked then it stands a better chance of not being stolen.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: southbury on March 19, 2015, 08:39:55 am
Hi Bill ...I have had one bike stolen from the station 'racks' in 2010 and another in 2013. The second time I reported it to BT police as I thought that they should be made aware, even if only from a statistical view point. The BTP took it incredibly serioulsy and were very helpful . I now lock my bike outside the dry cleaners. I have to be honest and say that I do not recommend anyone use the station racks.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on March 19, 2015, 09:10:56 am
parkatmyhouse is another website where people rent drives.


last time i looked there were a few in peplins that used it.


I did it for a bit but it was all a bit of a stress to make £3 a day.


bp
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on March 19, 2015, 09:29:33 am
Moffats Lane is feeling the effect of displaced 'parkers' too. Bottom 100yds has been reduced to single lane traffic everyday so far this week, from first thing in the morning. It's a narrow lane anyway and due to the number of parked cars, it's impossible to see if there are any gaps for vehicles approaching the village to pull into. :( 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on March 19, 2015, 04:48:38 pm
Southbury
I am sorry to hear about the thefts of your bikes from the railway station. I cant see a problem if cyclists want to leave there bikes in the village itself. There are two cycle racks there one set near the Brookmans and the other outside the post office. As far as the station goes I am on friendly terms with the manager for your station and will approach him about cctv coverage of the bike shed. I wouldn't suggest leaving a £2000-£3000 bike at the railway station (yes some of them can cost that much) but if you have a reasonable road worthy bike and its secured well it should be okay.
In the very near future I will sort out a Saturday morning where I can set up on the green in the village and do some bike marking and get them registered on immobilise. I will announce a date soon.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Foxspur on March 30, 2015, 04:46:55 pm
I received a letter from the Council this morning stating that the Parking Restrictions in Brookmans Avenue would not come into operation because of objections by "several residents". Given that all residents have been extensively consulted and spent considerable funds on paying for the installation of signage, it seems strange that people have only now come forward with objections. We are being held to ransom by a small number of selfish individuals.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 20, 2015, 08:26:23 pm
We've had a letter from the council (screen grab below), inviting feedback on the impact - in terms of parking displacement - of the recent parking restrictions in and around the village centre. We live at the village end of Moffats Lane, and I have noticed an increase in the number of cars parked towards the junction with Bluebridge Avenue since the changes in the rest of the village.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people parking outside my house. There is room for two cars if parked well. However I will be giving feedback on the following issues:



I think we can live with point one; it just needs a bit more patience, give and take and good manners and all should be fine. However points 2 and 3 are potentially dangerous and need to be addressed by the local authority. I will be giving Jack Carson the Parking Services Technician who signed the letter my feedback.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 21, 2015, 07:17:16 am
A pdf of the letter sent out to residents is embedded below. I found my way to the consultation page (strange they didn’t offer a short link in the letter) expecting that I could register my response there, but there are no facilities for doing so. It’s just a list of consultation documents. Worth bookmarking though if you want to check what has been done in the past. That page is also embedded below.

Brookmans Park
http://www.welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=9940&p=0

One more issue I forgot to mention. If you live at the lower end of Moffats and are driving home you can get stuck in the line of traffic and cause a jam if someone has pulled in to let you past but has blocked your drive and there are others behind and approaching you. Again, this has only happened a couple of times, but it does cause problems.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alex on April 23, 2015, 03:58:49 pm
Thanks for the heads up.

It is clear that something needed to be done in and around the village.
What we now have is a "Police State" situation, with Traffic Wardens and Notices littering the area.
Shop Keepers are up in arms with what has been done.
Traffic on Brookmans Avenue(today) is just as bad with all the signage up, than before.
Hey Ho, something coming to a small village, and its arrived!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 23, 2015, 04:40:02 pm
It's remarkable that the local authority response to "parking displacement" following new parking restrictions is almost always to extend the restrictions rather than to assess the proportionality or effectiveness of the recently imposed parking restrictions.


It's almost like parking is simply a revenue generating opportunity for local authorities ...  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 24, 2015, 08:36:12 am
Some seriously dangerous driving at the lower end of Moffats this morning. There is currently a line of 13 cars parked on the south side or the road. I've just seen two cars end up face-to-face with each driver refusing to budge. Three cars had been forced to block driveways to let the east-bound traffic through. The driver of a gardening maintenance van and trailer which was stuck behind the line of cars swerved out, mounted and drove along the pavement to beat the jam. I have seen this happen before during the school run as parents/guardians and children use the pavement to walk to school. This can't be the right solution to the village parking problem.

It might be a good idea for the local police and officials from the council pay a visit during the school run to see for themselves. I would then like them to assess whether the situation is dangerous or not, explain their reasoning and make some recommendations.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on April 24, 2015, 09:06:02 am
Some seriously dangerous driving at the lower end of Moffats this morning. There is currently a line of 13 cars parked on the south side or the road. I've just seen two cars end up face-to-face with each driver refusing to budge. Three cars had been forced to block driveways to let the east-bound traffic through. The driver of a gardening maintenance van and trailer which was stuck behind the line of cars swerved out, mounted and drove along the pavement to beat the jam. I have seen this happen before during the school run as parents/guardians and children use the pavement to walk to school. This can't be the right solution to the village parking problem.

It might be a good idea for the local police and officials from the council pay a visit during the school run to see for themselves. I would then like them to assess whether the situation is dangerous or not, explain their reasoning and make some recommendations.


I agree David and understand your concerns, there is an incredible amount of ignorant and selfish drivers using our roads, perhaps you will be less critical of the signage in Georges Wood Road now, where we have no pathways and virtually no police enforcement.

Good luck with the authorities, it will take an incident to occur before they wake up.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on April 24, 2015, 01:39:21 pm

I've drive down Moffats every morning this week at school drop off time and the narrowing of the road due to parked cars is a serious problem. If this is a consequence of the recently introduced traffic measures then they need to be urgently reviewed. This morning there was gridlock in the mouth of the junction resulting in queuing cars in both directions along Bluebridge Road. Given the curve and crest in the road a little further along and you have to accept this junction is now more hazardous. I have seen cars take to the pavement to allow a vehicle to pass in the opposite direction, which is not necessarily dangerous as it may get the traffic flowing again and relieve thequeuing on Bluebridge, however if it is a regular occurrence then pavements which have shallower foundations will soon be destroyed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aqila on April 24, 2015, 05:26:32 pm

What we now have is a "Police State" situation, with Traffic Wardens and Notices littering the area.
Shop Keepers are up in arms with what has been done.
Traffic on Brookmans Avenue(today) is just as bad with all the signage up, than before.


I agree - the introduction of parking restrictions in some roads is not surprisingly causing problems in other parts of the village, while making very little difference in the roads where it has been implemented.  In Peplins we have parking soon after 11am and all weekend.  In the end there were only 2 of us objecting to the council, because everyone else was worn down by the pressure.

As I said before it was implemented, the whole culture of the village is changing, the shops are losing customers, the streets are patrolled by traffic wardens and commuters will go else where and the station will become a backwater - all because a few people could not show neighboroughly tolerance for a few parked cars in the road (which haven't even gone away!).  Lets hope enough people see sense at the 6 months review and support the removal of the restrictions!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 24, 2015, 05:41:52 pm
Despite my somewhat cynical response above, speaking as someone who had a car mount the pavement in front of him on Moffats and who sees the traffic jam at the end of the lane every day on my way to the station, the current situation cannot carry on (it's frankly dangerous and is delaying the traffic on Bluebridge Road too) and the recently imposed restrictions elsewhere in the village should be reviewed on that basis. I plan to write to the council. I think it would be good if others did the same, but obviously that's just my view.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on April 24, 2015, 10:51:33 pm
I have complained to the Council three times since the new parking restrictions were implemented. Yesterday I walked up Moffats with my son and my shopping bag was clipped by the wing mirror of a hatchback.  I no longer feel safe walking on Moffats Lane.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Largey on April 27, 2015, 10:09:32 pm
Has anyone actually spoken to the drivers of these cars ? where do they come from?  - a residents picket sounds like a plan. Its totally selfish of them...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on April 27, 2015, 10:38:26 pm
I have not seen any of the drivers. Moffats Lane is narrower than Brookmans Ave and doesn't have wide verges. School coaches travel along Moffats Lane but not along any of the roads which are within the Residents' Parking zone. Coaches and larger vehicles are finding it very difficult to turn in Moffats with so many parked cars. I have also seen a car reversing out onto to Bluebridge Road when faced with an oncoming lorry travelling down Moffats Lane on the pavement and road as there was simply not enough space on the road due to parked cars. I counted 27 empty car parking spaces at the station car park at 11.00 the week before Easter. The money that has been spent on surveys, parking schemes, signs etc it would probably be cheaper for the Council to compulsory purchase the station car park!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: slimgym on April 27, 2015, 11:16:41 pm
I think it's a slippery path until everywhere is covered with restrictions that takes the zone outside the distance a commuter will walk over whether they will pay. They did the same when I lived in Potters Bar, the hour-no-waiting zone was increased until it grew to about a fifteen minute walk to the station before the problems went away. As you say they should purchase the car park and set the charge at a reasonable level, and perhaps the fares too which would stop those who drive from stations further away.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on April 27, 2015, 11:23:50 pm
I agree that the parking situation in the village is currently not suitable, however purchasing the station carpark/making parking there free etc is unfortunately not now ever going to happen. If it did, as has been pointed out elsewhere, all that would happen is that people who currently pay to park in Welham Green/Potters Bar and other stations where they would still be charging would just come and fill our carpark up instead!


I think we need to find a solution that does not include this. Ideas welcomed.....


James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 28, 2015, 08:50:54 am
It's not just about short-term parking. Some cars that are parked along Moffats arrive in the morning and are driven away in the evening. Others can be parked for days/weeks and not moved. So it seems to be used for commuters, shoppers and those who rarely use their vehicles and need somewhere to park them long-term.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on April 28, 2015, 08:46:56 pm
It's not just about short-term parking. Some cars that are parked along Moffats arrive in the morning and are driven away in the evening. Others can be parked for days/weeks and not moved. So it seems to be used for commuters, shoppers and those who rarely use their vehicles and need somewhere to park them long-term.

I see long term parking happening a lot these days.

On Hawkshead Road in Little Heath someone is clearly running a van / minibus hire company and storing their vehicles outside the flats at Gresley Court when they are not in use. There are often upwards of four Ford Transit sized vans parked there for sometimes days at a time. As I write there is also a motor home parked there, it's been there for two days already and on average turns up every few weeks and stays for about a week before it's moved again.

There is nothing illegal in the above of course, it's just a bit annoying for those locals who have to drive past these vehicles or struggle to see round them when pulling out of their drives etc.

What is absolutely is though is inconsiderate, then again I find that a large percentage of society is completely inconsiderate these days.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Ferdie on April 29, 2015, 08:15:05 am
It's not just during the week when the parking enforcement seems to be causing issues. On Sunday I was coming down Moffats Lane and there were about 6 cars parked on Moffats Lane leading up to the junction with Bluebridge Road, plus a scaffolding lorry literally on the junction. I had to go on to the 'wrong side' of the road long before the junction and inevitably as I approached it, anyone driving from the Village would not be able to see me due to the large conifer hedge on the right - I duly met head to head a car turning into Moffats Lane. Fortunately, we both stopped and we were able to extricate ourselves from the problem. I'm sure most people who park these days have no consideration for either the Highway Code or just plain common sense - and yes due consideration of anyone else. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: slimgym on April 29, 2015, 10:44:23 am
What is absolutely is though is inconsiderate, then again I find that a large percentage of society is completely inconsiderate these days.
That is I believe the key issue - people who don't realise or don't care they have to share the planet with others. Those who have 'rights' that extend beyond others - who don't want those vehicles outside their own houses but think it's fine to leave them outside other peoples.

The railway car park owners are missing a trick having priced it higher than people are prepared to pay. If they halved the fee they may more than double the users and see additional return? Certainly if I owned a car park I'd want it full at all times and adjust the fees to keep it that way, up or down. Cynics might say that's akin to running a pub down to demonstrate lack of use prior to building on the plot.

Short of them cutting the fee to a reasonable level the only answer is going to be restrictions beyond that which people are prepared to walk. It's a shame that will affect those who are not at fault other than simply living close to a station and possibly displace the parkers to other stations on the line where parking isn't as heavily restricted.

Weekend parking could be people who (as others have suggested) have left the car there for a period, or perhaps they've avoided the yellow lines even though they're not in force due to a fear of being caught out.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on April 29, 2015, 10:48:05 am
The railway car park owners are missing a trick having priced it higher than people are prepared to pay. If they halved the fee they may more than double the users and see additional return?

Grant Shapps arranged that to happen a few years ago for a 2 month trial. From memory (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it made any difference!

James

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 29, 2015, 12:27:47 pm
I think it's a slippery path until everywhere is covered with restrictions that takes the zone outside the distance a commuter will walk over whether they will pay. They did the same when I lived in Potters Bar, the hour-no-waiting zone was increased until it grew to about a fifteen minute walk to the station before the problems went away. As you say they should purchase the car park and set the charge at a reasonable level, and perhaps the fares too which would stop those who drive from stations further away.
Sadly this is par for the course and in complete line with the point I made above, that council's see resident's parking zones as a new revenue collection opportunity. That's one of the reasons why the residents of the road I previously lived on in London opposed the imposition of parking restrictions strongly. Residents parking zones tend to shift the problem, not deal with it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 29, 2015, 03:37:33 pm
Looks like the council is prepared to move quickly on the issue of parking displacement and the impact on the lower end of Moffats. We've been sent an updated letter with a multiple choice form in which we say whether we want various types of parking restrictions, or not. I have embedded the letter below in three parts.

(http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/parking1.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/parking2.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/parking3.jpg)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on April 29, 2015, 10:25:38 pm
What about if everyone living at the bottom of Moffats just parked on the road outside their houses in the evening until sometime in the morning (if work etc permits) until this is sorted?

 ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on April 30, 2015, 06:25:03 am
I personally favour a single yellow line with waiting restrictions limited to two, one-hour periods during the day between 8-9am in the morning and 3-4pm in the evening. That might mean that there are fewer cars parked there during the main school run times, which is when it seems to be particularly bad.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 30, 2015, 09:41:31 am
Bottom of Moffats Lane this morning. Actually seems better now the builders/work vehicles at the end by the junction have gone.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7745/17319316801_8265f9f759_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sos2un)Moffats Parking (https://flic.kr/p/sos2un) by sgoldswo (https://www.flickr.com/people/45335448@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on April 30, 2015, 09:57:51 am
Not when a builders' grab lorry couldn't get up the road and came all the way up on the pavement from the bottom of the road until numbers 25/27.  When a car pulled over to allow it to pass two cars sped passed it which caused even more chaos.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 30, 2015, 10:52:13 am
Not when a builders' grab lorry couldn't get up the road and came all the way up on the pavement from the bottom of the road until numbers 25/27.  When a car pulled over to allow it to pass two cars sped passed it which caused even more chaos.
I can understand the concern, but normally the bottom of the lane is chaotic in the morning for almost all of my walk through. This morning in my walk down the lane all I saw was a couple of cars have to tuck in while others passed. It looked much improved. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact you can get idiotic incidents on any road. The road I previously lived in Enfield (which had lots of on street parking) was once blocked by a coach driver who took a wrong turn and couldn't make the turn in the road or reverse out, but that wasn't representative of the road day to day.


I guess I'm saying I would look to wait to see if now the building works at the junction have largely finished, the situation broadly improves. Once you've lost your free round the clock on street parking you don't realise how much of a negative impact it can have on you and your neighbours. By way of another example when I was walking home about 2 weeks ago at the bottom of Moffats Lane, at a time when most of the parked cars at the bottom were absent, a group of BMWs doing something like 60-70MPH whizzed past me. That kind of thing doesn't seem to happen in the mornings.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on April 30, 2015, 11:04:04 am
I guess I'm saying I would look to wait to see if now the building works at the junction have largely finished, the situation broadly improves.
I suspect all that will happen is commuters' cars will take the spaces vacated by the builders at the bottom of Moffats. Every time I walk the children to school in the morning I see chaos and cars and lorries driving along the pavement. I hadn't realised until the parking problem started just how narrow much of Moffats Lane is compared to many of the other roads in Brookmans Park, and yet it has school coaches navigating the parked cars twice a day.

Yesterday afternoon I counted over 30 spaces in the station car park.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on April 30, 2015, 11:23:58 am
I agree with the restrictions suggested, single yellow line with waiting restrictions.  We really should avoid residents' parking permits.  I have experience of these with relatives who live in the London Borough of Enfield and Harringey. It means that residents' pay for visitor parking permits, effectively another tax.  There will always be the odd parked car which of course is acceptable and I agree does stop traffic from going too fast.  However the situation we have at the moment is a danger to both pedestrians and drivers. Whether there have been builders vans at the bottom of Moffats is irrelevant as I am sure most of us can remember the black Toyota 4x4 which was parked at the bottom of Moffats for most of last year (not a resident) and caused problems.  I leave home at 7.40 and most of the visiting parked cars are already there.  The school coaches travel down at approximately 7.50-8.10, then the rush of school traffic, motor and pedestrian, for Chancellors starts followed by children going to Brookmans Park School and it doesn't really calm down until after 9.30.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 30, 2015, 12:08:20 pm
I guess I'm saying I would look to wait to see if now the building works at the junction have largely finished, the situation broadly improves.
I suspect all that will happen is commuters' cars will take the spaces vacated by the builders at the bottom of Moffats. Every time I walk the children to school in the morning I see chaos and cars and lorries driving along the pavement. I hadn't realised until the parking problem started just how narrow much of Moffats Lane is compared to many of the other roads in Brookmans Park, and yet it has school coaches navigating the parked cars twice a day.

Yesterday afternoon I counted over 30 spaces in the station car park.


All fair points/potential concerns, but shouldn't we see rather than relying upon a suspicion? I've shared your concerns in the last few weeks (see my posts above), but this last week has been notable for a reduction in the issues I've observed.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on April 30, 2015, 12:49:34 pm
I agree with the restrictions suggested, single yellow line with waiting restrictions.  We really should avoid residents' parking permits.  I have experience of these with relatives who live in the London Borough of Enfield and Harringey. It means that residents' pay for visitor parking permits, effectively another tax.  There will always be the odd parked car which of course is acceptable and I agree does stop traffic from going too fast.  However the situation we have at the moment is a danger to both pedestrians and drivers. Whether there have been builders vans at the bottom of Moffats is irrelevant as I am sure most of us can remember the black Toyota 4x4 which was parked at the bottom of Moffats for most of last year (not a resident) and caused problems.  I leave home at 7.40 and most of the visiting parked cars are already there.  The school coaches travel down at approximately 7.50-8.10, then the rush of school traffic, motor and pedestrian, for Chancellors starts followed by children going to Brookmans Park School and it doesn't really calm down until after 9.30.
Totally agree with you on residents parking permits, they are a form of taxation/revenue raising. That was my experience in Enfield and one of the reasons I was actively opposed to parking restrictions on the road I lived on there (and signed petitions accordingly etc).


However, while I would agree there's been a traffic overload over the last few months or weeks, this last week has seen a reduction of traffic and more sensible driving/parking on the road. I have actually been trying to take photos of the incidents/jams people have been describing in the last week (because I had been concerned and wanted to put pictures in a letter to the council) and noticed that the snarl ups seem to have decreased and the number and density of cars parked seems to have fallen. The only thing I can put this down to is the reduction in the number of works vehicles at the end of the road, but there may be another reason.


Separately, I did want to flag the point regarding speeding cars following the imposition of parking restrictions. This is because people living on roads with parking restrictions near our old house in Enfield found that speeding cars and dangerous driving on their roads markedly increased with imposition of parking restrictions and the removal of parked cars. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 01, 2015, 09:57:21 am
However, while I would agree there's been a traffic overload over the last few months or weeks, this last week has seen a reduction of traffic and more sensible driving/parking on the road.

I agree that there are times when the traffic flow is fine, but there are times - and it's every day - when it totally snarls up. These are the times when some drivers use the pavement. This morning we had assorted vehicles including large grabber lorries driving on the pavement, cars jammed head-to-head with the drivers refusing to budge, and pull-in places blocked.

I think part of the problem is caused by tailgating, which can be due to frustration, running late, arrogance, error etc. We do need a solution to this.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on May 01, 2015, 02:35:52 pm
I was walking back from the village at lunchtime today and saw 4 cars queuing on Bluebridge Road from both directions waiting to turn into Moffats Lane.  NOTE there are no builders vans parked there today.  3 cars coming down Moffats on the wrong side of the road, they had no option about this due to parked cars, were met with an oncoming car from Bluebridge turning left into Moffats. While the three cars were reversing back up Moffats there was a build up of cars waiting to turn into Moffats.  All the drivers were courteous in this instance.
I have in the past seen cars reversing back out on to Bluebridge Road which is obviously extremely dangerous.  When turning left into Moffats from Bluebridge Road you cannot see if there are cars coming down Moffats until you actually turn in and then of course it's too late.  Lunch time is not a busy time and this situation arises more and more each day particularly in the morning and around 3pm.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 01, 2015, 06:40:35 pm
All I can say is that again today I walked down the lane in the morning on my way to work, I saw 4 or so cars going each way who all behaved courteously in tucking in to let one another past.  I haven't seen any craziness, nor anything interfering with traffic on Bluebridge Road, since the works lorries and vans departed.

I'm not discounting the concerns of residents at the bottom of the lane (frankly I was concerned until the last week or so), but I'm not seeing anything here that I didn't see on the street we previously lived on in Enfield (which was a residential street without parking restrictions) and that can been seen on many other residential streets in London and elsewhere. Based on that I'm not currently convinced of the need for any parking solution. I plan to keep an eye on it for the next week or so to see if anything changes before responding. I recognise others may have different views.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 01, 2015, 08:20:51 pm
All I can say is that again today I walked down the lane in the morning on my way to work, I saw 4 or so cars going each way who all behaved courteously in tucking in to let one another past.  I haven't seen any craziness, nor anything interfering with traffic on Bluebridge Road, since the works lorries and vans departed.

Make a flask of tea or coffee and park yourself there from 08:00 to 09:00 and you will witness it. Granted you might not see the problem as you walk down the lane on your way to work, but stay awhile and you will. You can sit on our drive if you like, but be alert to cars swinging in to dodge the traffic; as long as you are on your toes you will be fine.

 ;)


Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on May 01, 2015, 08:28:37 pm
I will even bring you a biscuit or two! Two of the visiting cars parked before 8 am this morning were still there at 7 pm this evening. Looking forward to a quiet bank holiday Monday .... ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on May 02, 2015, 05:03:00 pm
The railway car park owners are missing a trick having priced it higher than people are prepared to pay. If they halved the fee they may more than double the users and see additional return?

Grant Shapps arranged that to happen a few years ago for a 2 month trial. From memory (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it made any difference!

James

Yes, that's exactly right James. It was a three month+ trial, but sadly it demonstrated that lowering the price had almost no impact at all on the number of cars using the car park. It seemed that whatever the fee, people would prefer to park on the street.

Having seen the controlled parking zones going in from one area (Westlands) to another (Peplins), etc, etc., and seeing how this has just transferred the problems to other places - Moffats currently - I do wonder whether the solution isn't rather more radical.

From recollection the cost of running the car park is £10,000 or £15,000 per annum. I know that North Mymms Parish Council were approached about it at the time. I wonder whether it wouldn't be in the interest of Welham Green and Brookmans Park Council Tax payers to consider a scheme which reduced or abolished parking charges again, in return for clearing the nearby streets of the dangers photographed above. My guess is that it's about £3 a year on the Parish bill. But I haven't investigated this in depth and my maths might be faulty.

I do share the general concern that the current situation is pretty dangerous and I would have thought the costs associated may now outweigh the cost of doing something about the car park itself.

Best,
Grant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on May 02, 2015, 06:12:32 pm
I don't think asking the residents of Welham Green and Little Heath to have money added to their council tax bill so that residents of Brookmans Park got free car parking at the station would go down particularly well!


I still maintain that the problem with making the BP Station Carpark free again - without doing anything at the other ones - would be lots of people from other areas driving to Brookmans Park to use our station and park for free, filling up the carpark and therefore not solving the issue. If it would be possible to get Great Northern to suspend all fees for a week to test this, it would be useful but I suspect not possible.

James
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on May 02, 2015, 06:46:54 pm
At least two of the commuters are not from Brookmans Park as I've followed them out of village up to Little Heath. I don't see why anybody should have to subsidise somebody else's parking costs. Before long we would be paying their train fares. As they are going to work to earn money they can factor in the cost of parking as it's part of their travel.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on May 02, 2015, 08:20:02 pm
I think Grant's idea is great. I don't personally use the library, but am happy to subsidise those who do. £3 a year seems a small price to pay to stop yellow lines/parking zones throughout the village -spoiling the village feel. Intrigued why it costs over £10,000 to maintain the car park though - when it was free noone maintained it at all- my husband was injured slipping on ice because it hadn't been gritted in winter.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 03, 2015, 01:24:03 pm
Grant's idea is appalling. The last thing we need is yet another expenditure for the tax payer. My advice is live with it. The parked cars slow traffic down and make the roads safer. Consider them a free to install traffic calming measure.

Didn't we have this discussion back last May when the council painted yellow lines on several junctions on Bluebridge Road? Wasn't that supposed to fix the problem? And probably bring world peace too. A big part of that discussion was about the issues of turning into Moffets Lane from Bluebridge Road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on May 03, 2015, 02:43:29 pm
The purpose of the discussion about Moffats (not Moffets) Lane and commuter parked cars is not that resident's object to having parked cars on Moffats Lane so long as traffic can travel along the road safely.  At present this is not the case.  Speed of vehicles is not an issue here.  You can travel at only a couple of miles an hour on the wrong side of the road, due to parked cars, and be faced with traffic turning in from Bluebridge Road.  That makes this discussion a safety issue.  I am in favour of a few parked cars as it does slow traffic down but not so many that it causes dangerous situations for both pedestrians and motorists.  I have stopped allowing my children to walk to the village Mon-Fri when commuter cars are parked as other vehicles often travel on the pavement as there is simply not enough space on the road (the clue is in the name Moffats LANE).
 
I too agree that residents should not have to pay for commuters being allowed to park for free in the car park. A simple solution of cars being restricted to parking during certain hours eg 11.00-12.00 would allow cars to park at other times, slowing traffic, but not too many that it causes a dangerous situation.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on May 03, 2015, 02:53:31 pm
The junction of Bluebridge Road and Moffats Lane is a nightmare at times and something needs to be done. Westland Drive is also plagued by cars not belonging to residents - and not only on weekdays. We have yellow lines with restricted parking at one end of the road but this has only moved the problem further down. And since Brookmans Avenue now has restrictions the whole thing will probably get worse. I do not see that we should subsidise commuter parking as GS suggested. I would support resident permits as that seems to be the only working option at the moment.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 03, 2015, 02:58:10 pm
Grant's idea is appalling. The last thing we need is yet another expenditure for the tax payer.
Agreed
Didn't we have this discussion back last May when the council painted yellow lines on several junctions on Bluebridge Road? Wasn't that supposed to fix the problem?

Partly, that was a discussion about parking too close to the junction. Since then we have had the displacement of parking because of the restrictions in the village, which has exacerbated the situation. So we are now discussing the added problem of cars parked on the south side of Moffats and vehicles being forced to drive on the wrong side of the road. Not a problem at most times of the day, but it is an issue during the school run.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: etc. on May 03, 2015, 08:55:07 pm
Just a thought...

Perhaps we should consider removing the new restrictions in Bradmore Way and Peplins Way and introducing a one-way system? This would mean a free flow of traffic around this area alleviating the current issues in Moffats Lane, Oaklands Avenue, Westland Drive and The Gardens. I realise this is going to be unacceptable to some, but we have to consider that currently Moffats Lane (one of the few council adopted main arteries through Brookmans Park) is becoming severely blocked and has now become dangerous. This road is after all only a lane.

The alternative is we cover the entire village in yellow lines!

Have the new restrictions in Bradmore Way and Peplins Way really made that much difference? It is still difficult to drive and park around there at certain times of the day.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on May 03, 2015, 10:56:59 pm
... parked cars slow traffic down and make the roads safer.

Do they? Roadcraft (Google it) defines them as a "hazard" - Some people speed up to be first to the gap. If you're gonna crash, you first need something to crash into. If parked cars made roads safer then why not scatter them up and down the motorway. Fact is, they probably make little difference and in any case Moffats was hardly an accident black spot.

On the other hand what they undeniably make more dangerous - are pavements and private driveways. 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on May 04, 2015, 01:34:33 pm
Lots of ideas here


I find parking in the village now much harder as people are gumming up the bays by using the full 2 hours. I park on westland now and walk through the alley.


also


I think the problem on moffats is much like GWR. That cars are parked back to back rendering the passing of 2 cars impossible. How about designated passing places which would enable cars to pull in.


I drive moffats daily and its now a nightmare to navigate as efffectivley its now single track for a good distance.


Also cars can build up and back out onto bluebridge and on the brow of the hill (possible blind summit) this is dangerous.


This coupled with the fact that sometimes cars park on the white lines on Bluebridge (no stopping) means its only time before there is an RTA there.


The station car park is a great idea-it should be free-indeed they all should-hospitals included!!


This would take the pressure off nearby roads country wide. Im sure the owners of said spaces though would not be approving of this in any way sadly. Its all about the money sadly!!


Cheers BP






Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on May 05, 2015, 11:37:18 am
At least two of the commuters are not from Brookmans Park as I've followed them out of village up to Little Heath. I don't see why anybody should have to subsidise somebody else's parking costs. Before long we would be paying their train fares. As they are going to work to earn money they can factor in the cost of parking as it's part of their travel.

Why someone from Little Heath would drive to Brookmans Park, then leave their car a good distance from the station and get a train into London is beyond me?

I live in Little Heath and it's a 20 minute walk tops from Potters Bar station which has more trains per hour and the fares are cheaper!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 05, 2015, 01:42:26 pm
Just a thought...

Perhaps we should consider removing the new restrictions in Bradmore Way and Peplins Way and introducing a one-way system? This would mean a free flow of traffic around this area alleviating the current issues in Moffats Lane, Oaklands Avenue, Westland Drive and The Gardens. I realise this is going to be unacceptable to some, but we have to consider that currently Moffats Lane (one of the few council adopted main arteries through Brookmans Park) is becoming severely blocked and has now become dangerous. This road is after all only a lane.

The alternative is we cover the entire village in yellow lines!

Have the new restrictions in Bradmore Way and Peplins Way really made that much difference? It is still difficult to drive and park around there at certain times of the day.


I would certainly agree that a review of the recent restrictions on other roads might be warranted ahead of imposing restrictions elsewhere in the village. There's a pattern of local authorities using parking displacement to justify increased parking restrictions, enforcement and fines all around the UK. That was what the letter to the council I referenced in the post above was going to say.


As an aside, I walked past the relevant part of Moffats at about 8:55-9 today. Again, traffic looked fine (bearing in mind here I don't see traffic on the "wrong side" as an issue, nor the road being reduced to a single lane IF there are passing places), lots of passing places/spaces, people behaved courteously in pulling in. I'll make sure I catch earlier trains later in the week to make sure I'm not forming an overly positive impression. I'll also take some more photos so people can see what I mean objectively.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 05, 2015, 02:17:32 pm
As an aside, I walked past the relevant part of Moffats at about 8:55-9 today. Again, traffic looked fine (bearing in mind here I don't see traffic on the "wrong side" as an issue, nor the road being reduced to a single lane IF there are passing places), lots of passing places/spaces, people behaved courteously in pulling in. I'll make sure I catch earlier trains later in the week to make sure I'm not forming an overly positive impression. I'll also take some more photos so people can see what I mean objectively.

Hi sgoldswo, I am not sure what pictures prove. I have pictures of when it's been snarled up and pictures when it's clear. Pictures will only confirm what we already know - that it's not a constant problem, that it seems to happen in short spells, and that those spells appear to be during the morning and afternoon school runs. The issue we face is is how we deal with those times when the traffic flow is a problem. At least the authorities are looking into it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 08, 2015, 08:36:18 am

Hi sgoldswo, I am not sure what pictures prove. I have pictures of when it's been snarled up and pictures when it's clear. Pictures will only confirm what we already know - that it's not a constant problem, that it seems to happen in short spells, and that those spells appear to be during the morning and afternoon school runs. The issue we face is is how we deal with those times when the traffic flow is a problem. At least the authorities are looking into it.

David, I agree with you that photos can only be a snapshot and unless anyone is prepared to sit at the end of the road with a video camera on a couple of mornings it likely isn't something that's easily demonstrable. There's a second point that people's perceptions of what's acceptable traffic may vary wildly based on prior experience.

What I can say is that this week at a range of times between 8-9 I saw broadly the same picture as indicated above, with 8-10 cars parked at the bottom of the lane and adequate passing places. The vast majority of drivers seemed to behave courteously, pulling in to let others past. The school buses seemed to pass freely through the junction, but did bottle up traffic behind them, which caused a momentary capacity issue at the junction for less than a minute. None of this seems too bad this far, but... Sadly I saw one car and a 4x4 mount the pavement.

On each occasion the driver had no "need" to do so (either their exit was clear or they were unduly panicking about traffic on the other side of the junction at the point where cars weren't parked) and I'm afraid to say it seems like some people will just drive in a dangerous manner. On each case I got the drivers attention and asked them to move their cars off the pavement, which they did, in one case without comment and in one case with a mouthful of abuse that amounted to "do you think you own the pavement?" with the colourful metaphors removed. Each incident was surprising to me and I'm not sure everyone should approach drivers as I did, though I would applaud those who do. 

To summarise, personally, I'm still not convinced this amounts to a good reason for parking restrictions to be imposed wholesale along the lane. Regardless of that point, it seems like the police might want to look at the driving at the bottom of the lane and perhaps there is a case for extending the double yellows at the bottom of the junction back onto the lane for 10m or so to avoid undue panic on the part of drivers turning onto Moffats Lane from Bluebridge Road.

All the best
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 09, 2015, 08:44:05 am
When we have double yellow lines down the length of every road and visitors have to buy permits to park outside your house and people can drive up the hazard fee Moffat's  Lane at the speed they drive up Bluebridge Road, will you be happy? Because that is what people are asking for.

Cars parked in the road cause restrictions, which force drivers to slow down and pay attention.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on May 11, 2015, 09:03:26 am
So this morning a car coming into Moffats from Bluebridge decided to drive the whole length of the congested area on the pavement. Not just slightly with one wheel but covering virtually the whole pavement. I wound my window down and pointed out it was dangerous to children 'there's no children here' he says 'what about the ones coming out of their houses turning right to walk to school? They wouldn't expect a car on the pavement!' 'I know what I'm doing you f*****g w****r' was his reply.  Charming. 8.35 in the morning. And all because he couldn't just wait his turn.... I have his number plate. Can't we name and shame? The worst part is that about 8 cars subsequently copied and came through behind him, all using the pavement as an unofficial carriageway. The parked cars do slow the traffic down but are causing dangerous driving by other road users. The pavement has become an extension of the road. I see this every weekday
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 11, 2015, 10:01:46 am
Can't we name and shame?

Hi Trent, sorry to hear about your experience. We don't allow naming and shaming for legal reasons. Better to report the incident to the police. Hopefully a solution will be found soon.

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 11, 2015, 02:06:23 pm
Aside from any issue with parking, driving on the pavement is the offence of dangerous driving under the Road Traffic Act. See para 145 of the Highway Code. I have the number of the person who gave me similar abuse on Friday. I think both Trent and I should contact Bill McCaskie
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BPNEWBIE on May 11, 2015, 04:11:11 pm
I think he may be busy dealing with the upturned car on Moffats today!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on May 11, 2015, 04:31:01 pm
driving on the pavement is the offence of dangerous driving under the Road Traffic Act. See para 145 of the Highway Code. I

The Highway Code does not create any offences so failure to observe it is not an offence. Also driving on a pavement is never enough in its own right to amount to dangerous driving.

Given the unfortunate RTC on moffats today which saw the police, ambulance and fire services in attendance, is it still the view of so many that parked cars make this road safer?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mj on May 11, 2015, 04:31:54 pm
If anyone doubts that the parking in Moffats Lane is a safety issue for car drivers and pedestrians, please have a look at this car upside-down on the pavement, having just clipped a parked car at the start of the 'commuters car park' section of the lane. Luckily happened just before the afternoon school rush, when the pavement would have been busy, and the driver was not seriously hurt.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 11, 2015, 04:37:35 pm
driving on the pavement is the offence of dangerous driving under the Road Traffic Act. See para 145 of the Highway Code. I

The Highway Code does not create any offences so failure to observe it is not an offence. Also driving on a pavement is never enough in its own right to amount to dangerous driving. Were that the case most people would not be able to get of their driveway.

Given the unfortunate RTC on moffats today which saw the police, ambulance and fire services in attendance, is it still the view of so many that parked cars make this road safer?


The road traffic act and related legislation create the relevant offence(s) and the highway code provides the relevant guidance to drivers:

"144 You MUST NOT

drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991

145 You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34"

You'll note the point about access to property is dealt with above and in the relevant legislation.



I have no idea what happened on Moffats today, but if a car ended up on its roof that suggests an accident at speed to me. I await further information on the topic as I agree it may be relevant either way.

All the best
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 11, 2015, 04:40:21 pm
If anyone doubts that the parking in Moffats Lane is a safety issue for car drivers and pedestrians, please have a look at this car upside-down on the pavement, having just clipped a parked car at the start of the 'commuters car park' section of the lane. Luckily happened just before the afternoon school rush, when the pavement would have been busy, and the driver was not seriously hurt.


It must have been travelling pretty fast to end up on its roof! I've seen cars clip other vehicles before and never heard of that leading to this kind of accident.


Did anyone see it?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on May 11, 2015, 04:47:27 pm
It must have been travelling pretty fast to end up on its roof! I've seen cars clip other vehicles before and never heard of that leading to this kind of accident.

It is not always the case that speed is excessive, under heavy breaking the balance of the car is significantly shifted, add full lock steering and a kerb and cars flip very easily. Re the Highway Code, in your own cut'n'paste it makes clear it is "guidance" - there are no offences created by the Highway Code and that is that.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 11, 2015, 04:51:10 pm
It must have been travelling pretty fast to end up on its roof! I've seen cars clip other vehicles before and never heard of that leading to this kind of accident.

It is not always the case that speed is excessive, under heavy breaking the balance of the car is significantly shifted, add full lock steering and a kerb and cars flip very easily. Re the Highway Code, in your own cut'n'paste it makes clear it is "guidance" - there are no offences created by the Highway Code and that is that.



OK- still a bit surprised as I've never seen a car turn over without excessive speed involved. Entirely agree the highway code doesn't create offences, but the applicable legislation does and seems clear on its face - should I post a link?


All the best
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 11, 2015, 05:18:56 pm
Thanks to Brookmans Park Residents Association @BrookmansParkRA (https://twitter.com/BrookmansParkRA) for tweeting about the traffic issue.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on May 11, 2015, 05:24:34 pm
- should I post a link?

I personally don't need one having sat several examinations on the road traffic act and spent my working life enforcing it. Rgds
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 11, 2015, 05:26:17 pm
Decided to tweet Welwyn Hatfield Council @WelHatCouncil (https://twitter.com/WelHatCouncil) the link and MJ's pic. Hopefully it will help them with their decision making. (Thanks for uploading the pic MJ)

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: LBN01 on May 11, 2015, 05:38:42 pm
This is slightly off topic I suppose, but while it does not in and of itself create offences, the Highway Code in its own introduction points out that:
"Many of the rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence."
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on May 11, 2015, 05:56:14 pm
This shows where the car was when it collided with the parked car at the top of the line of parked cars. Thank goodness nobody was hurt.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 11, 2015, 06:03:54 pm
Thanks for that picture Helen.

Just a thought, but until this situation is sorted out it might be worth local schools such as Brookmans Park Primary and Chancellor's warning parents/guardians to tell their children to take extra care walking along the pavement on Moffats during the school run because they might find cars driving towards them.

The two posts today of cars driving on the pavement (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,252.msg38134.html#msg38134) and then, later, the overturned car (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,252.msg38140.html#msg38140) are worrying.

If any parents/guardians read this forum is it worth suggesting the schools say something to the children during the morning assembly?

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 11, 2015, 06:24:30 pm
For those who prefer using Facebook rather than the forum, this issue is also being discussed on The Brookmans Park Newsletter Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/brookmanspark/posts/902912986439441). You can click on the comments link in the embed below.

Car overturns on Moffats Lane, Brookmans... - Brookmans Park Newsletter | Facebook
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on May 11, 2015, 06:58:02 pm
Having not witnessed the incident I cannot say with any certainty It was absolutley driver error. However the vehicle must have been travelling to fast for the conditions, if the vehicle was being driven competently and at at the appropiate speed then they would not have lost complete control of the vehicle, which clearly they had.

The test of dangerous driving is to be regarded as dangerous if the way he or she drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver.

Most drivers in my experience only consider breaking the law an issue if they are caught, with fewer officers on the ground the situation on our roads will only get worse. speeding, people talking on their hand held phones and texting are my biggest concerns because it is rife.

In GWR we do not have pavements so all the problems that have been highlighted in Moffats of late, we have experienced for many years. To the detractors who said we had to many signs in GWR, think, they are there for a reason.

I do hope some good comes of this incident and the authorities wake up from their slumber and now do something.

The 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 11, 2015, 10:17:10 pm
Having not witnessed the incident I cannot say with any certainty It was absolutley driver error. However the vehicle must have been travelling to fast for the conditions, if the vehicle was being driven competently and at at the appropiate speed then they would not have lost complete control of the vehicle, which clearly they had.

...

In GWR we do not have pavements so all the problems that have been highlighted in Moffats of late, we have experienced for many years. To the detractors who said we had to many signs in GWR, think, they are there for a reason.

I do hope some good comes of this incident and the authorities wake up from their slumber and now do something.



I agree. This is probably the wrong thread for this, but regardless of the parking issue, on several occasions in the last 6 months I've seen people driving too fast down Moffats lane (one Friday evening was notable when at least three cars passed me travelling considerably in excess of the speed limit). There is a speeding issue on the lane from time to time, particularly on the downhill section. I seem to recall Bill McCaskie posting about this when there was ice on the road. I've also seen a 4x4 mount the pavement near the old farmhouse when travelling too quickly around the corner when the driver was on the phone.

I'm less concerned about the parking (frankly from what I've seen and heard since earlier today it looks like the parked cars were unfortunate enough to be in the way rather than being the cause of today's incident)  than I am about dangerous driving on Moffats lane. Some may not like the signage on GWR, but it least it's clear what the speed limit is and drivers are reminded of it. On a road with a similar gradient in Enfield there's one of those electronic speed warning signs which did seem to reduce the overall traffic speed when it was installed. Perhaps one of those wouldn't go amiss.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mj on May 12, 2015, 10:47:31 am
Having not witnessed the incident I cannot say with any certainty It was absolutley driver error. However the vehicle must have been travelling to fast for the conditions, if the vehicle was being driven competently and at at the appropiate speed then they would not have lost complete control of the vehicle, which clearly they had.

...

In GWR we do not have pavements so all the problems that have been highlighted in Moffats of late, we have experienced for many years. To the detractors who said we had to many signs in GWR, think, they are there for a reason.

I do hope some good comes of this incident and the authorities wake up from their slumber and now do something.



I agree. This is probably the wrong thread for this, but regardless of the parking issue, on several occasions in the last 6 months I've seen people driving too fast down Moffats lane (one Friday evening was notable when at least three cars passed me travelling considerably in excess of the speed limit). There is a speeding issue on the lane from time to time, particularly on the downhill section. I seem to recall Bill McCaskie posting about this when there was ice on the road. I've also seen a 4x4 mount the pavement near the old farmhouse when travelling too quickly around the corner when the driver was on the phone.

I'm less concerned about the parking (frankly from what I've seen and heard since earlier today it looks like the parked cars were unfortunate enough to be in the way rather than being the cause of today's incident)  than I am about dangerous driving on Moffats lane. Some may not like the signage on GWR, but it least it's clear what the speed limit is and drivers are reminded of it. On a road with a similar gradient in Enfield there's one of those electronic speed warning signs which did seem to reduce the overall traffic speed when it was installed. Perhaps one of those wouldn't go amiss.


Parked cars are not dangerous in themselves, like speed, but add to the risk of an accident happening. People are impatient, get distracted and make misjudgements whilst driving and any number of signs, warnings or reminders will not change human nature. Having a line of parked cars for people to weave in and out of will increase their impatience and make the consequences of distraction or misjudgement more severe.

In relation to the recent upturned car incident, contrary to the assertions of some members who did not witness the incident, speed is unlikely to have been a factor. The car set off 2 doors away from the accident and ended up almost opposite the car it collided with (which was almost undamaged). Everyone in attendance, including the police, were surprised that the car turned over when there was so little other damage to either car.

Moffats Lane was not designed for commuter car parking and is a more dangerous place to drive, cycle or walk through as a result of it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on May 12, 2015, 11:10:18 am
Speed would have been a contributory factor.
 
The placing of road signs has multiple uses, one of which is to help with prosecutions in event of an incident, no one will be able to use poor signage in GWR as mitigation.
 
Always expect the unexpected when driving.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 12, 2015, 10:45:50 pm
I notice there are no parked cars in the photo of the car on its roof. Nor are there any parked cars near the emergency vehicles. All of which seem to have had no issue finding a parking space.

The second picture looks  like it was taken near the bottom of the hill in the direction of Bluebridge Road. Judging from the shadows it appears to be have been taken around the middle of the day. If that is so, there doesn't look like there is much of an issue with commuter cars. Just a few cars, between two and five, parked relatively well.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 13, 2015, 07:21:59 am
An issue residents living on the south side of the lower end of Moffats face is joining the road from their drives blind. This is particularly difficult when there are larger vehicles blocking the view. At times like that we can't see up or down the lane. Sometimes cars are travelling at speed but we have to nose out slowly and take a gamble. There are two solutions to this. One is to park blocking our own drives so we can use the wing mirrors to see if traffic is coming or to have someone wave us out, which is not always possible.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on May 13, 2015, 09:11:14 am
In Peplins Way I often found it difficult to reverse out of my drive safely in the morning as I frequently had commuters parking right up to the edge of my driveway.

Since the parking restrictions came in it is much safer.

Restrictions have their downside but there has been a positive impact for me, even if I can no longer park outside my own house.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mj on May 13, 2015, 09:28:10 am

I notice there are no parked cars in the photo of the car on its roof. Nor are there any parked cars near the emergency vehicles. All of which seem to have had no issue finding a parking space.

The second picture looks  like it was taken near the bottom of the hill in the direction of Bluebridge Road. Judging from the shadows it appears to be have been taken around the middle of the day. If that is so, there doesn't look like there is much of an issue with commuter cars. Just a few cars, between two and five, parked relatively well.

There are no parked cars next to the overturned one because it's on the opposite side of the road. The emergency services were able to park past the end of the line of cars, and further down blocking the road, as traffic had been stopped by this point. The recovery truck had to reverse up Moffats Lane from Bluebridge Road using the pavement in order to get to the incident.

This morning there are 16 cars parked at the bottom of Moffats.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on May 13, 2015, 09:50:25 am

I notice there are no parked cars in the photo of the car on its roof. Nor are there any parked cars near the emergency vehicles. All of which seem to have had no issue finding a parking space.

The second picture looks  like it was taken near the bottom of the hill in the direction of Bluebridge Road. Judging from the shadows it appears to be have been taken around the middle of the day. If that is so, there doesn't look like there is much of an issue with commuter cars. Just a few cars, between two and five, parked relatively well.

There are no parked cars next to the overturned one because it's on the opposite side of the road. The emergency services were able to park past the end of the line of cars, and further down blocking the road, as traffic had been stopped by this point. The recovery truck had to reverse up Moffats Lane from Bluebridge Road using the pavement in order to get to the incident.

This morning there are 16 cars parked at the bottom of Moffats.

The second photo was taken at around 4pm, about an hour or so after the accident happened I believe, and you can see it occurred just at the place the line of parked cars starts as you come down the hill. So not at the bottom of Moffats but about a dozen houses up from the bottom. You can see one red car diagonally across the grass verge & pavement, which I assume was the parked car which was clipped. It had minimal damage - just a slight dent to its bumper. There was still a line of parked cars all down the road when the photo was taken.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: TotallyDizzy on May 13, 2015, 06:56:06 pm
Walked to the village at 5.30 pm and back this evening.  I had to step into gardens twice as cars drove on the pavement to get up Moffats Lane. Walking up Moffats Lane is very dangerous as you keep having to look behind you when you hear a car coming as you don't know if they are driving on the pavement or the road. The worrying thing is that a few of the commuter cars have left by this time. It is even more dangerous earlier in the day when there are more parked cars.
It is not just the bottom end of Moffats Lane that is dangerous, the top end is also hazardous. There seem to be cars parked virtually opposite each other leaving very little room to manoeuvre even a small car through the gaps. I am all for slowing traffic down but not grinding it to a halt. Presumably these are residents' cars as they are there early in the morning, all day and certainly still there at 7 pm.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on May 13, 2015, 09:18:48 pm
I know this won't be for everyone but I now just stand on the edge of the pavement if I see someone driving down it towards me. They tend to stop in a huff then pull back onto the road where there's ample space for them to drive. Sadly it seems to have done for a few people's alloy wheels on the kerbs as they drive off the pavement.


Congratulations to whoever was coming down Moffats at about 8:35am behind me who did the same to the car that pulled in behind me.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on May 14, 2015, 07:49:04 pm
Having not witnessed the incident I cannot say with any certainty It was absolutley driver error. However the vehicle must have been travelling to fast for the conditions, if the vehicle was being driven competently and at at the appropiate speed then they would not have lost complete control
A car can be rolled at 10mph, I've seen it happen -
A woman was doing her make-up whilst crawling up Coppets Road, N10 and she mounted the kerb and rode up a slanted tree trunk and tipped her car onto it's lid.  I and a few others stopped and extricated her from her upturned car, she had a streak of lipstick right up to her forehead.

These people drive amongst us............. be afraid, be very afraid.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on May 14, 2015, 09:04:47 pm
This morning there are 16 cars parked at the bottom of Moffats.

I worked from home on Wednesday and walked past the end of Moffat's lane at about 11am. There were, as you say, about 16 cars parked along the stretch of road I could see. I wish they had parked on Bluebridge Road, where they would have gone some way to slowing the traffic. When those cars are moved away, do you imagine the drivers will slow down and take more care, or speed up as they drive down the long stretch of clear road?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on May 15, 2015, 01:45:31 pm
I see in todays press that Dorset police are to launch a NO EXCUSES campaign to stamp out traffic offences, hope it finds it way to Brookmans park.... wait a minute?  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on May 15, 2015, 01:46:36 pm
I see in todays press that Dorset police are to launch a NO EXCUSES campaign to stamp out traffic offences, hope it finds it way to Brookmans park.... wait a minute?  ;)

Do them for copyright Larry.  ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 08, 2015, 03:25:31 pm
A resident permit parking scheme is to be introduced on Moffats Lane from the junction with Bluebridge Road to the junction with Park Close.  Legal documents are now being drawn up. The decision by Welwyn Hatfield follows a survey of local residents. Letter confirming the changes is embedded below.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 08, 2015, 06:59:34 pm
This issue is also being discussed on the Brookmans Park Newsletter Facebook page.

Resident parking scheme to be introduced... - Brookmans Park Newsletter | Facebook
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: southbury on June 09, 2015, 08:30:20 am
So the 12- 16 cars parked daily on Moffats get shifted to Bluebridge Avenue ?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on June 09, 2015, 05:43:28 pm
Please please please can our PCSO attend the bottom of Moffats from from 7.50 to 8.40 in the mornings and 3.00 till 3.30 in the afternoons.  I saw 2 near collisions (vehicles v pedestrians) due to cars blatantly driving along the pavement due to the parked cars. I challenged one and as usual got abuse. One of these drivers I know to be a local resident.  Alternatively, we  could wait for someone to be knocked down before we do something!!  Before the parking restrictions changed, I was given a ticket for parking at the bottom of Moffats with 2 wheels on the kerb.  I did this as I considered the road too narrow and didn't want to cause an obstruction.  At this time, there was only one other car in sight, parked or otherwise. I accept it was wrong & won't do it again, but how can the multiple cars driving at speed along the pavement be ignored?? These drivers should be reported and fined! Very, very fed up.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Miles on June 09, 2015, 06:30:04 pm
When did all these parking issues start? Charging at the station perhaps? Parking schemes just push the problem to the next street.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on June 09, 2015, 09:07:49 pm
Charges at the station car park and people from outside the village driving here because the parking on the streets is free and the fares are cheaper than from their places of abode eg St Albans. Something needs to be done when visitors have to park in the next road. And the pity is that all the roads around the village centre will end up with yellow lines if this is the only way to ease the situation.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on June 10, 2015, 11:31:15 am
Mmmmm. Yellow lines on moffats-thats going to look lovely!! Meanwhile the station carpark remains at 30% capacity. What a shame . BP
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on June 10, 2015, 11:35:25 am
What about the slow creep of yellow lines on the roads-thats really impacting on the beauty of the village. BP
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: epiphany on June 10, 2015, 12:46:11 pm
What about the slow creep of yellow lines on the roads-thats really impacting on the beauty of the village. BP

Absolutely agree!! It started along Hawkshead Lane and is now spreading like some sort of virus.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 10, 2015, 09:12:19 pm
So the 12- 16 cars parked daily on Moffats get shifted to Bluebridge Avenue ?

The letter says that the council will be mailing residents in Bluebridge Avenue and other local roads "in anticipation of any further parking displacement..."  Relevant paragraph from the letter (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,252.msg38361.html#msg38361) below.

Quote
now that the wishes of the majority of residents in Moffats Lane etc are known, further letters will shortly be sent out to those residents in Bluebridge road, Bluebridge Avenue, Oaklands Avenue, Westland Drive and The Gardens. This is in anticipation of any further parking displacement around the village centre.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on June 10, 2015, 09:12:55 pm
This appears to be linked with the comments on the parking problem in roads near the station. If we don't get restrictions soon then the whole area concerned will be clogged with parked cars - on verges and pavements as well as both sides of all the roads. Which would you rather have?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 10, 2015, 09:32:30 pm
I have split posts 749, 750 and 752 above from the Brookmans Park Village not as 'pretty' as it might be (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,5052.msg38311.html#msg38311) thread and merged them here because they were in danger of duplicating the issues being discussed in this thread. No posts have been deleted or lost.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 10, 2015, 09:43:15 pm
Yellow lines on moffats-thats going to look lovely!!

Are you sure the residents parking scheme in Moffats will include yellow lines? Signs, yes, but not sure about the need for yellow lines. This from the council website (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/permitsandvouchers).

Quote
Drivers  must pass two large signs at the entrance to the permit parking area.    In larger areas, some repeater signs may be needed to remind drivers they are inside a permit parking area.  The repeater signs are smaller and usually attached to lamp columns.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on June 19, 2015, 07:14:51 pm
Hi Bill.  Please can you now give your attention to the cars at the bottom of Moffats Lane using the pavement as a new driving lane. I saw a resident nearly get hit again this morning. It is a daily occurrence (weekdays) and is a major problem at school run time. There will be a tragedy unless this is stopped. I frequently challenge offenders and usually get abuse for my trouble. So we are clear, this isn't the odd car, carefully and momentarily mounting the pavement, this is full on driving for the length of the 15 or so parked vehicles. The school coach is a major offender. I cannot understand why police are allowing this to happen.

On a separate note Editor, might it be worth Bill having a thread on here for non urgent matters we need to bring to his attention?? Unless we already have one.....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on June 19, 2015, 07:44:34 pm
I cannot understand why police are allowing this to happen.

I agree the situation needs addressing but it is not a policing problem, this is a local authority problem. Do you know how few officer there are? 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on June 19, 2015, 08:00:57 pm
The root cause is definitely a council problem, but cars driving recklessly along the pavement is very much a police problem. If local officers can ticket cars parked on quiet roads as they have a wheel on the pavement, surely they can deal with cars openly driving along them.....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on June 19, 2015, 09:04:09 pm
On a separate note Editor, might it be worth Bill having a thread on here for non urgent matters we need to bring to his attention?? Unless we already have one.....

I think there are usually existing threads about most issues that can be used to alert Bill. If not, feel free to start a new one. By the way, I have merged the previous three posts (which were in the cycle proficiency thread) into the existing thread about the parking situation on Moffats Lane.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on June 20, 2015, 11:57:39 am
Thanks Editor.  Is there a way of flagging things for Bills attention?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on June 20, 2015, 12:53:09 pm
Thanks Editor.  Is there a way of flagging things for Bills attention?

Probably only by PM.  I've often thought it would be nice to be able to tag members like on Facebook.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on June 20, 2015, 02:15:41 pm
If local officers can ticket cars parked on quiet roads as they have a wheel on the pavement, surely they can deal with cars openly driving along them.....


When was the last time a police officer issued a parking ticket? These are local wardens.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Purrfect on June 24, 2015, 04:43:36 pm
I noticed some parking tickets on private cars and workman's vans in Brookmans Avenue today - watch out from now on!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 02, 2015, 01:07:45 pm
I have had a number of calls and emails in reference to a vehicle parked on Moffats lane. Although the vehicle is not parked illegally I do agree that it is causing inconvenience to drivers of buses and lorry's. I have left a request on the drivers window to either move the vehicle or at least park on the other side of the road and I have also left a note at the registered owners address. As this is now in hand please wait for a couple of days before contacting me again. I will monitor the situation next week if it has not moved. Thank you.
Bill.   
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 02, 2015, 09:46:52 pm
On the plus side, it is stopping the multiple vehicles that were using the Moffats lane pavement as a new carriageway during school run time! Please can you attend and advise/report drivers bill once the legally parked car is moved. The situation is dangerous!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on July 03, 2015, 12:38:24 am
I have had a number of calls and emails in reference to a vehicle parked on Moffats lane. Although the vehicle is not parked illegally I do agree that it is causing inconvenience to drivers of buses and lorry's. I have left a request on the drivers window to either move the vehicle or at least park on the other side of the road and I have also left a note at the registered owners address. As this is now in hand please wait for a couple of days before contacting me again. I will monitor the situation next week if it has not moved. Thank you.
Bill.
Personally I want to give the owner of this car a medal because they've almost single handedly stopped people driving up the pavement at the bottom of Moffats Lane. I feel much safer as a pedestrian using the Lane every weekday morning since that car has been parked there, given that there has been a  failure of the police to enforce the law at that location.

If it were down to me a permanent chicane would be erected at that point as it not only prevents people driving dangerously but seems to have improved the traffic flow, people no longer speed into the area with parked cars.

I can only complain about the complaints, which I think are ridiculous. I do hope the police will be around in person to stop the dangerous driving at the bottom of Moffats when it resumes if and when the car is moved.

Perhaps this heavy handed approach could be reconsidered.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 03, 2015, 07:23:17 am
Well said sgoldwater. I totally agree. I cannot believe the ridiculous situation where police time and money is taken up to take action against a totally legally parked car, yet ignore the constant stream of cars driving at speed up the Moffats Lane pavement (when the car isn't there). Utterly crazy!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 03, 2015, 07:54:19 am
Additionally, who's to say the yellow car wasn't there first, in which case the cars parked on the other side of Moffats are causing the problem!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 03, 2015, 08:30:12 am
Additionally, who's to say the yellow car wasn't there first, in which case the cars parked on the other side of Moffats are causing the problem!

At least it's clearly visible. A good colour for possibly slowing traffic down.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on July 03, 2015, 10:26:37 am
I agree - the yellow car has just as much right to be there as the ones on the opposite side & it's certainly made me feel safer when walking down with my children as cars are no longer mounting the pavement on the turning to get past the cars coming down the road on their side. With the yellow car there, however impatient they may be, they just have to sit rather than use the pavement as an extension of the road. I can see however that if the cars on the other side park too close to it then there's going to be a problem for lorries and the school coaches.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Buster on July 03, 2015, 01:28:23 pm
The yellow car is there when i leave and when i come back so assuming it is pretty stationery therefore i cant immediately see what it is doing wrong?  ??? 
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 07, 2015, 09:06:14 am
Yellow car gone. Cars openly driving 100 yds along the pavement again!  Police have advised ringing 101 to report these dangerous situations. Can anyone tell me how to insert a video clip? Thanks
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 07, 2015, 09:11:52 am
Can anyone tell me how to insert a video clip? Thanks

Upload to YouTube, grab the embed code and place it between this code.

Code: [Select]
[html]Your code goes here[/html]
Of course, for privacy reasons, you will have to avoid showing number plates.

Perhaps the authorities could advise pedestrians what to do when a vehicle drives towards them on the pavement. The natural instinct is to move out of the way, but that either involves walking on to someone's drive/garden (possible trespass?), or stepping into the road (not advised). Or should we just stand our ground and hope the vehicle stops?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: epiphany on July 07, 2015, 09:20:09 am





Perhaps the authorities could advise pedestrians what to do when a vehicle drives towards them on the pavement. The natural instinct is to move out of the way, but that either involves walking on to someone's drive/garden (possible trespass?), or stepping into the road (not advised). Or should we just stand our ground and hope the vehicle stops?

Personally, if I see a vehicle driving towards to me ( in any situation) - I do not need an authority to tell me what to do. I certainly would not recommend standing and hoping!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 07, 2015, 10:50:49 am
I have had a number of complaints reference vehicles driving on the pavement on Moffats lane to get past the parked vehicles and cars coming down Moffats lane. This is a seen committing offence and no fixed penalty can be issued retrospectively. I could stand on Moffats lane all-day and not see one driver committing the offence and this would obviously be a waste of my time and your tax payers money. I would ask drivers to wait until the road is clear before proceeding up the road. Pedestrians if you could make a note of the index and the time and email me the details then I can make contact with the offending drivers and warn them of the offence.
We all know its an offence to drive on pavements as it is to use mobile phones whilst driving but some people will always flout the law.     
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 07, 2015, 11:44:52 am
No one is asking you to stand there all day Bill. Just sometimes, 8.15 - 9am ish and at school pick up time during the week. Your OCCASIONAL presence would remind drivers it is an offence. I feel a bit like you're saying this isn't worth your time or our money? It will be when someone gets hit and run over. Maybe you should attend and see the scale of the problem yourself. I see several near misses with pedestrians every day! This isn't the odd car mounting the pavement briefly, it's 2 wheels in the kerb the whole way. And isn't neighbourhood policing about addressing neighbourhood concerns?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on July 07, 2015, 03:30:57 pm
Can anyone tell me how to insert a video clip? Thanks

Upload to YouTube, grab the embed code and place it between this code.

Code: [Select]
[html]Your code goes here[/html]
Of course, for privacy reasons, you will have to avoid showing number plates.

Perhaps the authorities could advise pedestrians what to do when a vehicle drives towards them on the pavement. The natural instinct is to move out of the way, but that either involves walking on to someone's drive/garden (possible trespass?), or stepping into the road (not advised). Or should we just stand our ground and hope the vehicle stops?


I generally stand as close to the edge of the pavement as I can when I see someone driving up the pavement towards me, but if you do want to stand in a front garden I can't see any offence or damage would result.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sgoldswo on July 07, 2015, 03:38:02 pm
No one is asking you to stand there all day Bill. Just sometimes, 8.15 - 9am ish and at school pick up time during the week. Your OCCASIONAL presence would remind drivers it is an offence. I feel a bit like you're saying this isn't worth your time or our money? It will be when someone gets hit and run over. Maybe you should attend and see the scale of the problem yourself. I see several near misses with pedestrians every day! This isn't the odd car mounting the pavement briefly, it's 2 wheels in the kerb the whole way. And isn't neighbourhood policing about addressing neighbourhood concerns?
Agreed. A Land Rover pulled onto the pavement just behind me this am. A visit from Bill early once or twice a week would make a big difference as it's the same cars you see doing this day after day.


Increasingly wondering if residents parking is really the answer here or whether the lane simply needs traffic calming measures. I find that equally as frustrating to be honest, but at least the residents don't have to pay an ongoing tax for it.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 07, 2015, 05:27:06 pm
This afternoon I stood up the hill behind the last parked car on Moffats lane. As I suspected everybody followed the highway code to the letter. Vehicles waited at the bottom for cars to come down and cars coming down the hill pulled in to give way. Not one vehicle strayed near to the foot path. Whilst I am there no one will do it and when I am not then they obviously do. As I have said pass me the index of offending vehicles and I will speak with the drivers.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 07, 2015, 06:32:31 pm
Thank you for attending. The main problem is in the morning with commuters and a significantly higher volume of traffic. Please would you kindly make a morning visit too.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 07, 2015, 06:38:33 pm
I am unable to attend in the morning as the earliest shifts I have are 08:00 am starts. With the briefings and answering emails and the first coffee of the day and then the cycle out to the village I would not normally get there until 09:15- 09:30. This week my shifts are all 10:00-19:00 and next week I am on lates. Also the schools finish next Friday which should end this problem as by the time school starts back parking restrictions should be in place.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 07, 2015, 06:52:08 pm
Maybe have your coffee a little later?! A coffee break within the first 75 minutes of being at work? Wow, I actually can't believe you have written that. Sums the whole thing up. What is the point....
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on July 07, 2015, 07:36:26 pm
Yellow car gone. Cars openly driving 100 yds along the pavement again!  Police have advised ringing 101 to report these dangerous situations. Can anyone tell me how to insert a video clip? Thanks
I called 101 end of last year when a female mounted the kerb in her Mercedes in BP whilst on her phone forcing me to move out of her path, I was told by the operator who took the call that nothing could be done as the actual offence has to be witnessed by a police officer, this despite me giving vehicle reg as well!

But the important point to remember is crime is falling according to official sources.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 07, 2015, 08:07:18 pm
Maybe have your coffee a little later?! A coffee break within the first 75 minutes of being at work? Wow, I actually can't believe you have written that. Sums the whole thing up. What is the point....

I think that's a bit harsh, Trent. Most of us start the day catching up on emails with a cuppa. In my opinion Bill does an excellent job; he's probably the best community bobby we have had since I've been living here.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Adrian on July 07, 2015, 09:08:51 pm
I was told by the operator who took the call that nothing could be done as the actual offence has to be witnessed by a police officer, this despite me giving vehicle reg as well!

Prosecutions need evidence. In this instance the police don't have any, irrespective of how many registrations you collect, so they won't take the driver to court. They would have to rely on your evidence and you would need to make a statement and be prepared to give evidence in court. For an offence of driving on the pavement, it is never going to pass the public interest threshold.   

But the important point to remember is crime is falling according to official sources.

Some crimes, like theft for example, are "Recordable" - most of the Road Traffic Act is not. Therefore national crime statistics are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mj on July 07, 2015, 09:28:19 pm
If drivers are constantly on the pavement at certain times, it should be fairly easy to record them on a camera or phone and give the video to the police. If an offence has been committed then surely they would be obliged to at least contact the driver and discuss it with them?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on July 07, 2015, 11:45:45 pm
I was told by the operator who took the call that nothing could be done as the actual offence has to be witnessed by a police officer, this despite me giving vehicle reg as well!

Prosecutions need evidence. In this instance the police don't have any, irrespective of how many registrations you collect, so they won't take the driver to court. They would have to rely on your evidence and you would need to make a statement and be prepared to give evidence in court. For an offence of driving on the pavement, it is never going to pass the public interest threshold.   

But the important point to remember is crime is falling according to official sources.

Some crimes, like theft for example, are "Recordable" - most of the Road Traffic Act is not. Therefore national crime statistics are irrelevant.

Two points - I never said I wanted her prosecuted, just some words of advice would have probably been proportionate, secondly if she then does the same again at another point but this time kills or seriously injures a child and I come forward and say ive reported her previously for doing the same thing and was ignored, then I am sure a prosecution would follow a internal enquiry.

The term police is a contradiction in terms
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on July 08, 2015, 09:18:03 am
How about someone with a car and bike rack offer to collect Bill from Hatfield Police Station at 8:00 :-)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 08, 2015, 09:41:36 am
attempting to embed a video. This was the seventh consecutive car to drive the whole way up the pavement in the few minutes I was there. There was no need as I had pulled over and stopped and the carriageway was clear as you can see. At least this driver slowed down slightly
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Trent on July 08, 2015, 09:58:56 am
I can't make it work! The police have assured me they will send advisory letters to all offending vehicles if we forward the registration marks.  They can be sent to sntwelwynhatfieldsouth@herts.pnn.police.uk for the attention of Sgt Steve Hynes.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on July 08, 2015, 10:21:16 am
attempting to embed a video. This was the seventh consecutive car to drive the whole way up the pavement in the few minutes I was there. There was no need as I had pulled over and stopped and the carriageway was clear as you can see. At least this driver slowed down slightly

I'm not too sure how to embed it but maybe where it has attachments and other options, you can add there or if it's been uploaded to Youtube to post the link.  Just be careful not to show any registration numbers.
Otherwise PM Editor to add it for you.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 08, 2015, 10:25:28 am
I find it hard to believe that anyone would begrudge me a coffee whilst I am sitting at my computer reading logs and answering emails. I don't know where you work but its quite relaxed here and we even have a hot water on tap so we don't have to wait for a kettle to boil. Control have to resource hundreds of calls a day with a small number of officers to attend jobs around Welwyn and Hatfield. I have already stated in previous posts if you send me registrations I will speak with the drivers. I would like to thank the editor for his support and will continue to do the best I can for the area which I remind you covers Little Heath and Newgate street as well as Brookmans park. I cant be everywhere at once but I will continue to do my best.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on July 08, 2015, 11:37:55 am
I find it hard to believe that anyone would begrudge me a coffee whilst I am sitting at my computer reading logs and answering emails. I don't know where you work but its quite relaxed here and we even have a hot water on tap so we don't have to wait for a kettle to boil. Control have to resource hundreds of calls a day with a small number of officers to attend jobs around Welwyn and Hatfield. I have already stated in previous posts if you send me registrations I will speak with the drivers. I would like to thank the editor for his support and will continue to do the best I can for the area which I remind you covers Little Heath and Newgate street as well as Brookmans park. I cant be everywhere at once but I will continue to do my best.

I certainly don't begrudge you your coffee Bill - I think you're doing a great job & it's great to have a visible presence in the village!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mlr on July 08, 2015, 12:39:43 pm
Hear hear! Let Bill have his coffee and carry on doing a great job for the village!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on July 08, 2015, 02:27:45 pm
I find it hard to believe that anyone would begrudge me a coffee whilst I am sitting at my computer reading logs and answering emails. I don't know where you work but its quite relaxed here and we even have a hot water on tap so we don't have to wait for a kettle to boil. Control have to resource hundreds of calls a day with a small number of officers to attend jobs around Welwyn and Hatfield. I have already stated in previous posts if you send me registrations I will speak with the drivers. I would like to thank the editor for his support and will continue to do the best I can for the area which I remind you covers Little Heath and Newgate street as well as Brookmans park. I cant be everywhere at once but I will continue to do my best.
Bill what you need is some help - any criticism should be aimed higher!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on July 08, 2015, 04:56:32 pm



Hes the most proactive pcso we have ever had IMHO. Long may it continue.


BP



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on July 08, 2015, 05:54:57 pm
I agree. Bill is a real asset; very visible and highly proactive. Long may he enjoy his well-deserved coffee and, should he feel the need for one, a biscuit or two. Garibaldi most probably - the king of biscuits.

PS And is it just me or have a number of posts in this thread been authored by Victor Meldrew? He's probably sitting on a deck chair on Moffats right now collecting number plates.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 08, 2015, 06:46:52 pm
I would like to thank you all for your kind comments. I am enjoying my final cup of coffee of the day after having walked ten miles today around the village and up through Little Heath I think I deserve it lol. I will continue to serve you all to the best of my abilities but its true what they say. You cant please all of the people all of the time. I am of home for a beer soon so have a pleasant and safe evening.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Chungdokwan on July 08, 2015, 07:34:37 pm
Bill, go and have a beer or two.

Cheers
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Beagle on July 09, 2015, 08:13:34 pm
Having read the newsletter for a number of years this thread has now compelled me to actually join and add to the discussions. I don't think anyone is begrudging Bill his coffee. He is doing a good job and it is nice to have a presence in the village. We are fairly spoiled in this wonderful village that we live in and we have little to complain about.

However, I agree with several of the comments in this thread regarding the current state of the parking in the village caused by the revised parking restrictions, one direct result of which is the current problems in Moffats Lane. These cars are all legally parked with adequate passing places, if only drivers coming up Moffats Lane would wait for cars coming down to pull into them. The current situation is without doubt dangerous. As previously stated, everyday cars are driving along the pavement when there are school children on their way to school. Sorry, but this is dangerous and therefore warrants an effective police response. It is a matter of time before someone is injured.

I am not saying Bill shouldn't have a coffee, and I don't think Trent was either, but the police service are there to serve the public and this means that they should respond to their needs, at the time they are needed and may even have to start a little earlier than usual to do so. Operational policing allows and accommodates such action. Maybe, occasionally Bill could get to the village earlier to see the cars and coaches at the right time and manage his time effectively to reallocate his coffee break. Maybe Bill could have a coffee before starting work.

I find it strange that a resident with a totally valid concern is almost being belittled here for caring about our neighbourhood and the safety of its residents. Clearly some people who have commented have not seen the scale of the problem. I have no doubt they would feel differently if someone they know gets hit by a large piece of metal driving at 20mph on the pavement.

Furthermore, I find it strange that the most effective response to this was by the owner of a legally parked yellow car who was asked to move it. Yet, nothing is done about the offences taking place.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 10, 2015, 08:08:46 am
I have just noticed this line in one of the Neighbourhood Watch emails written by Sgt Stephen Hynes of the Safer Neighbourhood Team.

Quote
The email address for reporting careless or dangerous driving in WGC (Ideally with a Reg. No) is  SNTWelwynHatfieldSouth@Herts.pnn.police.uk we have stopped several vehicles already and visited 3 Motorcycle owners today. Speed isn’t the main factor, it is the danger put to residents I want to know about.

I am presuming this applies to Brookmans Park, too, and that we are invited to use that email address for any reports of any incidents on Moffats Lane and other local roads especially during peak traffic times?

David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: William McCaskie on July 10, 2015, 05:15:52 pm
Today I have again monitored Moffats lane at the afternoon school run time. I think it needs pointing out that the cars coming down the hill are part of the problem to. I witnessed vehicles speeding up down the hill to either make it through to the end or the last pull in place possible. Cars were also tailgating the one in front and if that pulled in to give way they were sticking out into the carriageway. I saw one young female driver coming up the hill pull her front wheel onto the pavement because the car coming down bullied its way through. I did not stop the female because if she had not of pulled up there could have been a head on collision and she did not drive the length of the pavement. If you are coming down the hill you should be giving way at the nearest pull in as the parked vehicle's are on your side. If you drive to close and the vehicle in front pulls in and stops to give way and you rear end it I think your insurance company will be paying out.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 03, 2015, 05:40:19 pm
Update from the council re parking Moffats Lane, Park Close, Moffats Close, The Grove, and Bluebridge Avenue.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 05, 2015, 05:05:26 pm
Twice in the last week I have been stuck behind a stationary vehicle blocking the access roads around Bradmore Green while the driver or an occupant of the car nips in to a shop. I tooted once and got an angry gesture in return. What's even more annoying is that this has happened when there are parking places available. It's as if the driver just can't be bothered, so others have to wait. One even had the hazard lights on. Is that legal; to use hazard lights when the only hazard is them blocking the highway?    ::)

I mentioned this in the speeding thread (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg39067.html#msg39067) but repeated here to save that discussion veering off topic.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bedlam on November 09, 2015, 09:05:51 pm
Twice in the last week I have been stuck behind a stationary vehicle blocking the access roads around Bradmore Green while the driver or an occupant of the car nips in to a shop. I tooted once and got an angry gesture in return. What's even more annoying is that this has happened when there are parking places available. It's as if the driver just can't be bothered, so others have to wait.
To have to walk 10 yards is a major obstacle to many of the Brookmans Park able bodied !
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alex on November 19, 2015, 10:11:27 pm
gosh, how dare you toot, get a life?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 21, 2015, 04:39:47 pm
The resident permitted parking scheme for Moffats Lane will be implemented on Monday 14 December. Below is the letter confirming. I am presuming it also applies to the other roads being considered during the consultation, but my letter refers to Moffats only. Perhaps residents of other roads could confirm if they have received letters or not.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 07, 2015, 06:25:16 pm
I'll be glad when the parking restrictions are introduce on Moffats next week. This evening I was driving down towards Bluebridge Road when I noticed a car turn the corner in order to drive up Moffats. I pulled in to let them through, because they have right of way, but a car coming down Moffats overtook me and forced their way through.

The parking restrictions might reduce the number of cars parked, but unfortunately it won't solve the problem of bad driving.   ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 14, 2015, 09:37:12 am
It looks like the new parking restrictions on Moffats Lane are working. These pictures taken at 09:25 on Monday 14 December.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on December 14, 2015, 10:27:09 am
I wonder where they are parking now?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on December 14, 2015, 09:45:50 pm
I wonder where they are parking now?

George's Wood Road?!!!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on December 15, 2015, 09:36:47 am
All welcome in GWR - we are commuter friendly road :)  Just cant see the lazy sods walking that far ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on December 16, 2015, 11:24:06 am
Twice in the last week I have been stuck behind a stationary vehicle blocking the access roads around Bradmore Green while the driver or an occupant of the car nips in to a shop.

Had this yesterday outside the Co-op where a woman in a 4x4 who clearly couldn't be bothered to walk 20 yards parked across the front of me while she used the cashpoint.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 16, 2015, 12:45:54 pm
Had this yesterday outside the Co-op where a woman in a 4x4 who clearly couldn't be bothered to walk 20 yards parked across the front of me while she used the cashpoint.

Probably because she either thinks she is more important than you or that your time is not as valuable.  >:(  Is this type of arrogance and lack of consideration for others a new thing? Seems to be happening more and more.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: GGDT on December 16, 2015, 03:01:59 pm
Had this yesterday outside the Co-op where a woman in a 4x4 who clearly couldn't be bothered to walk 20 yards parked across the front of me while she used the cashpoint.

Probably because she either thinks she is more important than you or that your time is not as valuable.  >:(  Is this type of arrogance and lack of consideration for others a new thing? Seems to be happening more and more.

Her teenage daughter (who she left in the car) was suitably embarassed by her actions so there is hope for the future!

My biggest parking annoyance in Brookmans Park is people who think they have the right to drive up on the pavement outside Wing Wah Garden even when there are numerous spaces available just the other side of the road.

I'd love to see the police spend a couple of hours in the village on a Friday or Saturday night issuing tickets to all the inconsiderate parkers (they'd make a few quid in fines as well)!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on December 17, 2015, 09:00:22 am
And parking on the corner of the pavement outside China Red, which can make turning into Peplins difficult to see
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Angel on January 04, 2016, 01:50:56 pm
Just seen a car parked at bottom of Moffats with a ticket on the windscreen.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Justin on July 13, 2016, 09:32:08 am
I have had a number of calls and emails in reference to a vehicle parked on Moffats lane. Although the vehicle is not parked illegally I do agree that it is causing inconvenience to drivers of buses and lorry's. I have left a request on the drivers window to either move the vehicle or at least park on the other side of the road and I have also left a note at the registered owners address. As this is now in hand please wait for a couple of days before contacting me again. I will monitor the situation next week if it has not moved. Thank you.
Bill.


The car you are referring to in this post happened to be mine.  I live in Bradmore Green and because of the incompetence of the council the residents of Bradmore Green are unable to get parking permits.  The reason I parked my car in Moffats Lane during that week is because I was on holiday.  I asked Jack Carson at Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council where I should park during the time I was away and he suggested Moffats Lane.  The evening I parked my car, there was not another car parked.  I parked totally 100% legally and in a considerate and safe spot.  It was the other cars parking that caused the issues for buses and lorry's - not mine.
So, despite being told by the council, where to park, I get a note put on my car, a note put through my letterbox telling me I was causing the obstruction and on top of that some disgruntled resident of Moffats Lane decided to cause £2000 of criminal damage to my car by keying(Scratching) it from front to back.



Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on July 30, 2016, 06:32:08 am
A comment made on this thread late last night has been removed on the grounds of trolling (http://www.brookmans.com/agreement.shtml) after it was reported to the moderators. Apologies for any offence caused while the post was live.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 02, 2016, 04:49:21 pm
I notice Justin has already mentioned this but now the residents who live in Bradmore Green can't park anywhere it seems, where are you all parking if you have a day/week off? I'm tempted to park in Station Close just the other side of the bridge as this is now the closest place to park however it's not ideal with buses and lorries coming over the bridge all day, it will cause traffic and possibly an accident or damage to my car, any ideas? Council are inept it seems. I've attached a pic, basically everyone in the village can get a permit apart from the minority who live in Bradmore Green above the shops.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/t3gav/Parking_zpszti0ote2.png)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 02, 2016, 05:20:25 pm
I've merged the latest post about parking around Bradmore Green (above) with this existing thread on parking in and around the village. This is for two reasons. 1) Many who are interested in this topic will have set notifications to be alerted if there is an update on the topic, and 2) it is useful to have the context of previous discussions on this topic to see how the issue has been tackled over time. Thanks David
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on September 02, 2016, 07:14:56 pm
I notice Justin has already mentioned this but now the residents who live in Bradmore Green can't park anywhere it seems, where are you all parking if you have a day/week off? I

Not ideal, but if you have the day off nothing to stop you parking in Bradmore Way and then moving your car once during the day as the parking restriction is only there for an hour.

With my Parish Council hat on, I have been talking to Justin about the restrictions which has been discussed at Parish Council level and we have been in contact with the Borough Council about it. Unfortunately a lot of local council seems to stop over August when people are away, but please rest assured it is still on our agenda and I will keep following it up until we reach a more satisfactory outcome for you.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 02, 2016, 07:45:01 pm
Thanks David/James that makes sense. What's even worse is that the council try and promote healthy living and on sunny days my girlfriend walks to work (down the overgrown railway path) but now she is forced to drive every day! On Sundays I park directly at the back of my house in oaklands avenue, the people there don't mind as there is plenty of space and they all have driveways (some were actually against the permits where we park).
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 03, 2016, 10:23:56 am
Thanks David/James that makes sense. What's even worse is that the council try and promote healthy living and on sunny days my girlfriend walks to work (down the overgrown railway path) but now she is forced to drive every day! On Sundays I park directly at the back of my house in oaklands avenue, the people there don't mind as there is plenty of space and they all have driveways (some were actually against the permits where we park).

Hi t3gav,

FYI, there are quite a few comments on your post over on our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/brookmanspark/). Click the speech bubble icon in the embed below to see them.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 03, 2016, 11:51:31 am
Thanks David.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 14, 2016, 11:01:38 am
Any news yet? :/
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on September 17, 2016, 09:15:41 am
Short answer, no. I have emailed again.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 20, 2016, 04:42:17 pm
Seems everyone can park illegally on the pavement outside my house, if only I could park in my own road...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 20, 2016, 04:54:30 pm
Seems everyone can park illegally on the pavement outside my house, if only I could park in my own road...

I have tweeted your dilemma to see what @WelHatCouncil says.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 20, 2016, 05:01:30 pm
Thanks, I did tag them on the fb post but they didn't reply. I did consider parking in Station Close but I have a feeling it will get hit by a bus...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 21, 2016, 03:33:18 pm
Thanks, I did tag them on the fb post but they didn't reply. I did consider parking in Station Close but I have a feeling it will get hit by a bus...

Hi t3gav, the council responded to my tweet about your problem. I will leave you to take up the offer of contacting them and discussing. Their tweet reply below. Please let us know how it goes.

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 23, 2016, 10:39:27 am
I haven't had a reply yet, but my girlfriend did:

Sorry, for a delayed response, as was explained by Ms Hatfield, I have been on leave.

With regards your latest email on parking permits in Brookmans Park. Regrettably, as previously explained, resident permits are only issued to those residents who reside in the roads included in the ‘permit area’. This does mean that residents and businesses in Bradmore Green as with other similar roads within Brookmans Park do not qualify for a permit. Unfortunately, an exception cannot be made because a person resides alongside a permit scheme, which is the case for all permit schemes across the Borough.  This does mean those residents have to find alternative location to park or pay for car parking using other means, such as the charging car parks in the vicinity.

Therefore, to remain fair and consistent, all residents in similar circumstances to yours, are treated in the same way. This prevents the authority from selling permits to non-residents and recreating a parking issue that the residents of the permit road wanted stopped.

Yours Sincerely


Durk Reyner

They still haven't answered my question on which is the closest road I can legally park in that won't get hit by a bus...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 23, 2016, 10:40:57 am
Here's a pic of the road in question, as you can see clearly not enough space to park in...  :-\
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on September 23, 2016, 11:19:56 am
Not defending the council - but that photo was taken during the 10-11 no parking (other than permits) time zone

Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 23, 2016, 12:52:54 pm
No it wasn't, it was taken at 8:50am when I left for work. The road looked exactly the same this morning too..
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: mannyd on September 23, 2016, 06:06:26 pm
My apologies! I walk through the alley to do the school run at 8.30/8.45, and 3/3.30. If I have to go out in the car between those times, there are usually quite a few cars parked along that stretch (admittedly less since the permits came in). The ticket man is out every day!
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mr Green on September 23, 2016, 09:48:37 pm
Regrettably, as previously explained, resident permits are only issued to those residents who reside in the roads included in the ‘permit area’. This does mean that residents and businesses in Bradmore Green as with other similar roads within Brookmans Park do not qualify for a permit.

I have no vested interest in this debate but this statement/policy is unjust - if I am understanding it correctly?

The partitioning of dwellings by town planners into definable groups (ie road names) also determines which residents can park in a road common to all. Dwellings with an access, albeit rear, onto a road are prevented from applying for a permit to park in that road.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 24, 2016, 12:00:22 pm
My apologies! I walk through the alley to do the school run at 8.30/8.45, and 3/3.30. If I have to go out in the car between those times, there are usually quite a few cars parked along that stretch (admittedly less since the permits came in). The ticket man is out every day!

No prob :)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on September 24, 2016, 12:03:28 pm
Regrettably, as previously explained, resident permits are only issued to those residents who reside in the roads included in the ‘permit area’. This does mean that residents and businesses in Bradmore Green as with other similar roads within Brookmans Park do not qualify for a permit.

I have no vested interest in this debate but this statement/policy is unjust - if I am understanding it correctly?

The partitioning of dwellings by town planners into definable groups (ie road names) also determines which residents can park in a road common to all. Dwellings with an access, albeit rear, onto a road are prevented from applying for a permit to park in that road.

Hmm interesting, guessing it's down to the council though not law or anything? If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly the road name doesn't determine who can park there basically?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: phil45 on October 01, 2016, 03:36:13 pm
i would like to know why there no lines on the road to indicate there are parking restrictions in westland drive ,oaklands avenue , the gardens and moffats lane. If there were it would alert people to look for the restriction signs (which are tiny)and be aware of when they can park legally .........
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 01, 2016, 03:40:01 pm
i would like to know why there no lines on the road to indicate there are parking restrictions in westland drive ,oaklands avenue , the gardens and moffats lane. If there were it would alert people to look for the restriction signs (which are tiny)and be aware of when they can park legally .........

I seem to remember reading something about not wanting to have lines all over the place so the signs were used instead. But I can't find the text I think I remember seeing.   ::)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on October 05, 2016, 02:46:42 pm
i would like to know why there no lines on the road to indicate there are parking restrictions in westland drive ,oaklands avenue , the gardens and moffats lane. If there were it would alert people to look for the restriction signs (which are tiny)and be aware of when they can park legally .........

I seem to remember reading something about not wanting to have lines all over the place so the signs were used instead. But I can't find the text I think I remember seeing.   ::)


Also, there are large signs as you drive into each road alerting you to parking restrictions - difficult to miss those. ;)
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob on October 05, 2016, 11:05:07 pm
http://www.welhat.gov.uk/parkingbrookmanspark might be what your looking for
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 06, 2016, 08:28:04 am
i would like to know why there no lines on the road to indicate there are parking restrictions in westland drive ,oaklands avenue , the gardens and moffats lane. If there were it would alert people to look for the restriction signs (which are tiny)and be aware of when they can park legally .........

I never park anywhere without seeking out the signs first, because if they exist and you've failed to observe them you are likely to get a ticket. There are signs, both at the entrance to restricted roads and along the routes, which are clear and unambiguous. I think we have enough road markings as it is without the need for more lines being painted.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: phil45 on October 06, 2016, 09:48:14 am
This is not an issue that affects me personally ...but a few neighbours have failed to inform visitors of the new restrictions and have been hit with £70 fines ...........
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 06, 2016, 09:53:45 am
This is not an issue that affects me personally ...but a few neighbours have failed to inform visitors of the new restrictions and have been hit with £70 fines ...........

That's sad. I always tell visitors, and anyone doing work on our place, about the restrictions. And I try to make space on our drive for them to park. So far nobody visiting our house, either socially or to do work, has had a ticket. It just takes a bit of planning. And residents can buy vouchers for visitors (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=PARKING_LAGAN&FLCASEID=NONE&ebd=0&ebz=1_1475743916492) if they are not able to squeeze vehicles on their drive.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on October 18, 2016, 10:18:10 am
So 3 weeks have passed and finally got a reply. They sent me a map showing the restrictions where I live, I've highlighted where I live with the big red circle, now by my interpretation of the map I can park where I've marked the big green circles, from memory there is a single white line here but according to the local transport websites this is just used to indicate the side of the road or restriction and as the council have indicated no restriction I should be ok, that is until the people of Bluebridge Road complain there are cars parked outside their houses...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 18, 2016, 03:05:09 pm
Looking at the map you attached I see The Close off Brookmans Avenue hasn't been coloured, and it doesn't look like there are markings. Is that free parking 24/7?
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: BrookyP on December 09, 2016, 10:13:09 am
So it seems there is nowhere to park in BP between 10 and 11 bar brookmans avenue which is full always anyway with vans. Quite astonishing. Shops must be feeling this. It was fine pre restrictions. Now it's just gummed up. Where do you park if you live on the green. They have got it wrong.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Helen on December 09, 2016, 10:17:17 am
Looking at the map you attached I see The Close off Brookmans Avenue hasn't been coloured, and it doesn't look like there are markings. Is that free parking 24/7?

It's much too narrow for parked cars David - I know from experience that two cars can't pass each other in that close.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: larrylamb on December 09, 2016, 11:02:04 am
So it seems there is nowhere to park in BP between 10 and 11 bar brookmans avenue which is full always anyway with vans. Quite astonishing. Shops must be feeling this. It was fine pre restrictions. Now it's just gummed up. Where do you park if you live on the green. They have got it wrong.
But the bi product raises revenue - win win for the council.
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on December 09, 2016, 12:55:48 pm
Almost got run over on the pavement last week, typical 4x4 driver tried to drive off the pavement as I was crossing the road, they had stopped on the pavement to collect their Chinese even though there was 4 empty spaces 10ft away...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: t3gav on August 09, 2017, 05:16:24 pm
Parking is becoming a joke now outside the Chinese Thursday to Sunday night, cars all over the pavement blocking the dropped curb to cross the road (kinda hard to push a pram or cross the road!). So you can illegally park with 4 wheels on the pavement on a crossing for 3 hours it seems but I can't get a permit for an empty road outside my house it seems...
Title: Re: Parking issues, solutions, action and fines in Brookmans Park
Post by: Red-Point on August 09, 2017, 11:01:10 pm
Unfortunately pavement parking seems to be a popular sport around the village.  I've been the beneficiary of some bad tempered responses when pointing out the available parking spaces.  I suppose that some drivers feel the need to exercise their off-road credentials.