Brookmans Park Newsletter Community Discussion Forum

General Discussion Boards => General Issues => Topic started by: Bob Horrocks on January 03, 2004, 09:38:53 pm

Title: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 03, 2004, 09:38:53 pm
Did you know that there have been planning applications for flats in Brookmans Park?  In the autumn there was an application to pull down 2 Georges Wood Rd (first house off the A1000 on the north side) and build a block of 6 two-bedroomed flats.  This was rejected by Welwyn Hatfield Council as being out of character with the area.  However a new application has been submitted with a slightly different layout.

Also just before Christmas, another application has been made to convert San Felice restaurant, opposite the Dutch Nursery, into 8 flats.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on January 03, 2004, 09:56:26 pm
Hi Bob,

Thanks for continuing to update us on planning applications and green belt issues. I am adding a link to your latest news page for those who want to know more.

Click here for the current NMDGBS updates including the flats mentioned above. (http://website.lineone.net/~greenbelt/latest%20news.htm#Latest%20news)

Please feel free to continue to refer to any planning applications you want wider publicity for and link to your site's update page.

Cheers

David Brewer
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 03, 2004, 11:26:04 pm
A quick mental calculation tells me that there can't be much profit in knocking down a house in GWR and replacing with 6 flats, unless of course they are going to be palatial with ensuites, undercover parking, gated entrance, etc.

Would Neville care to comment on what flats like this would be worth?

ATG
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Susan on January 04, 2004, 08:49:18 pm
Did you read the posts to the forum some time ago, regarding the new entry rules to Chancellors?

I would imagine that flats there would go for a premium – after all, they are right on the school’s doorstep.

I can envisage whole families crammed into one-bedroom flats just to get their children into the school.  ;D Or perhaps the developers envisage renting out the flats. I’m sure they could charge thousands for a temporary let at an appropriate time of year.

Of course, this would leave even more children living in BP having to commute elsewhere to school...
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on January 05, 2004, 12:11:18 am
There have been flats in BP for years so whats the problem?
The government demands new housing and an increase in population density, the L A must comply.
At least people in flats will probably have to behave with more consideration than people in houses due to codicils in their purchase aggreement.
It does not affect the green belt, does it?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 05, 2004, 06:01:51 pm
One main problem with the 6 flats proposed at 2 Georges Wood Rd is only 9 car spaces.  These are 2-bed flats and the drawings show a dining table seating up to 10 people in each flat.  It will not take many cars for residents and visitors to fill those 9 spaces, causing on-street parking.  That is a busy section of the road, particularly at school-run times.

Regarding San Felice, the conversion onto flats would not appear to be against Green Belt policies, and there is loads of parking space there for 8 flats.    
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on January 05, 2004, 08:06:46 pm
I would need to see the plans before I could comment on the values. I would of course bear in mind just how near to the A1000 they will be with all that carbon monoxide and noise. No-one has ever asked me for a property on a main road in 32 years! However, everything does have a value. I think that the developer paid circa £585,000 so that will be £97,500 per flat plus the building cost. Gresley court flats are achieving around £200,000 and they are in 2 1/2 acres AND people always comment there about the noise of the A1000 when viewing!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 05, 2004, 10:43:12 pm
Thank you for your figures, Nevillle. Living as we do on the Great North Road, we know all about traffice noise but if you concentrate really hard you can ignore it (trust me, I've been doing it for years).

ATG
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 05, 2004, 10:46:01 pm
And another thing I forgot to mention, I didn't realise until I drove past there today how big that plot is.

And carbon monoxide doesn't do you any harm, just look at me, still alive and able to post to the forum like the best of 'em. ;)

ATG
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 06, 2004, 02:55:45 pm
The proposed 8 flats at San Felice range from 46sqm for a 1-bed flat to 100sqm for a 3-bed flat.  By memory, the six 2-bed flats at 2 Georges Wood Rd are about 165sqm
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 06, 2004, 11:34:02 pm
If it's 165 sq m each then they're BIG flats, most houses are less than this (I have to measure them all day for insurance purposes - biggest one so far was 416 sq m, but then it did have 5 beds, 4 bathrooms, 4 recep, etc)

ATG
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 09, 2004, 05:42:19 pm
A check of the plans shows that the flat sizes are in the 120 to 140 sqm range.  Total floor area for the block of 6 flats would be 954sqm

These are big, but the proposed 'Country House' on the 21-acre field at Hawkshead Rd/Bluebridge Rd junction would be 1,190sqm.  Discussion on this is on the 21-acre field thread. ::)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on March 19, 2004, 03:08:54 pm
Bob Horrocks has kindly provided an update on this application saying that it has again been refused. Click here to read Bob's report. (http://www.brookmans.com/news/march04/flats.shtml)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 04, 2004, 07:07:16 pm
Despite the refusal, twice, for a block of 6 flats to replace 2 Georges Wood Road, a new planning application was submitted in the week ending 30 July.  Ref No. S6/2004/1152/FP, it is for 1-3 Georges Wood Road Rd.  The applicant wants to demolish the two houses and erect two blocks to provide ten 2-bed flats.

Plans not yet seen, but anyone can see them at Welwyn Hatfield Council offices, next to Waitrose, WGC during normal office hours.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 25, 2004, 09:01:54 pm
And yet more flats proposed for Brookmans Park!  Like an outbreak of spots.  Is it catching?

9 Bluebridge Road, on the opposite corner to the United Reformed Church and facing the church entrance.  Proposals to demolish the house and erect a block of 5 flats with 7 car parking spaces and access from the 'rear' of the site i.e. the opposite end from Bluebridge Road.  

Application No S6/2004/1262/FP can be seen at Welwyn Hatfield Council offices, next to Waitrose, WGC.  North Mymms District Green Belt Soc will be notifying nearby residents in case they have not heard about it.

Where next?  Anyone prepared to bet on which Brookmans Park property is next to get a planning application to replace with flats?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on August 26, 2004, 12:59:58 pm
As long as it's not the Brookmans...
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on August 26, 2004, 05:19:56 pm
it might as well be Aidan,you virtually live down there anyway ;D
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 09, 2004, 06:44:17 pm
A quick update on the planning application for 9 Bluebridge which aims to demolish the house and turn it into 5 apartments each containing 2 bedrooms (with the exception of the top apartment, which would be a one bedroom flat).

As most people are aware, a large petition has been gathered both door to door and in a number of the village shops.

The petition will be presented to the Case Officer for this application at the Council Offices in Welwyn Garden City next Wednesday 15th at 10am.

Brookmans Park residents who have signed the petition are strongly encouraged to come along to show the strength of feeling about this application.  Both the Welwyn Hatfield Times and the Welwyn Hatfield Review are sending photographers for the petition handover.

Grant Shapps
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on September 09, 2004, 08:23:41 pm
Politician + Press + Band Wagon = Photo Opportunity!
;D

Actually, good luck to those involved. I don’t want to see this monstrosity built.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 10, 2004, 12:31:47 am
In view of the petition organised by neighbours the Green Belt Soc did not have to circulate a note.

I can now tell you that the Green Belt Soc and the Parish Council have both objected to this application for 9 Bluebridge Road.

They have both also objected to a THIRD application within a year for six two-bed flats at 2 Georges Wood Road and another application for two blocks totalling 10 flats opposite at 1-3 Georges Wood Road.  
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 10, 2004, 11:27:48 am
Quote
In view of the petition organised by neighbours the Green Belt Soc did not have to circulate a note. I can now tell you that the Green Belt Soc and the Parish Council have both objected to this application for 9 Bluebridge Road.

Can anyone add the text of the petition to this thread for those who haven't been visited door-to-door and who are unable to get to the shops please?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on September 10, 2004, 12:12:03 pm
Any chance of an online version?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on September 10, 2004, 12:59:09 pm
It's difficult to do an online petition because of the difficulty in proving who you are. I did speak to the petition organiser about this, and one of the reasons we felt that it wouldn't work putting a copy online is because you have no idea whether people are who they are saying they are, whether at least if you have their signature it looks more authentic.

James
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on September 10, 2004, 01:01:32 pm
good point...
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on September 17, 2004, 10:37:11 am
Quote
The petition will be presented to the Case Officer for this application at the Council Offices in Welwyn Garden City next Wednesday 15th at 10am.

Was the petition presented on Wednesday and what happens next?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Blue Friday on September 17, 2004, 11:00:35 am
What happens next is the Conservative Parliamentary Spokesman gets his photograph in both the Welwyn Hatfield Times and the Welwyn Hatfield Review...  
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 17, 2004, 02:00:33 pm
The petition was presented on Wednesday by a delegation of Brookmans Park residents and the Officer with responsibility for this application, Nathan Baker, accepted the petition.

Grant Shapps
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 18, 2004, 02:04:10 am
The Editor asked what happens next?

The normal way for Joe Public to deal with any planning application is first of all to look at what is proposed and decide if you want to take action.  The application can be viewed at the District Counil office, next to Waitrose supermarket, WGC.

You can write comments, objections, or in support, to the planning dept, Welwyn Hatfield Council, Campus East, WGC, Herts Al8 6AE, quoting their reference 'S6/2004/1262/FP - 9 Bluebridge Road, Brookmans Park'.  Keep it short, polite, and avoid saying 'I don't like it' or similar.  Instead say something like 'it is overdevelopment of the site, overly dominant, would make worse the village car parking problems because of the proximity to the church, railway station, and village centre etc' (or whatever arguments you wish to put forward).

The planning officer will consider the application for compliance with the District Plan, take into account comments received and make any further enquiries thought appropriate.
A report will then be prepared and the decision may be taken by the officers, or they may refer it to the Council's Planning Committee for them to decide whether or not to approve it.  This can take weeks, maybe months.

The Council should then advise anyone who has written a separate letter to the Council, but not normally to people who have just signed the petition. The applicant can appeal if the decision is a refusal, and the Council should notify anyone who wrote about the original application.

The decision will be posted on this website and the NM District Green Belt Soc website soon after I have been notified. I hope that clarifies the system.

Just as a footnote, a few decisions are referred to John Prescott's office for a final decision, but that is very rare
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cassie on September 23, 2004, 12:50:26 am
Story covered in the Welwyn Hatfield Times today

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/content/whtimes/news/story.aspx?brand=WHTOnline&category=News&tBrand=herts24&tCategory=newswhtimes&itemid=WEED22%20Sep%202004%2013%3A28%3A16%3A197
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 12, 2004, 03:45:29 pm
Application for 5 flats at 9 Bluebridge Road.  This has been withdrawn at the applicant's request on 7 October 2004.

Looks like the 445-signature petition worked.  It shows that local opinion still counts.  Well done to all those involved.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 12, 2004, 05:09:27 pm
Briliant!  This is really good news!

Thank you Bob for letting us all know!

Aidan
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on October 12, 2004, 05:24:26 pm
Hi all,

It's great news that the original application has been withdrawn, but here's a word of caution.

Don't start cracking open the Champagne yet because another scaled down application will be made most likely before the end of this year.

It's my understanding that rather than amending the current application to take into account scale and sizing of the proposed property, which was most likely to see the plan rejected, the applicants have decided to withdraw and re-apply from scratch.

So a partial victory for those of use who signed the 445 petition, but it isn't over yet!

Grant Shapps
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 16, 2004, 06:24:46 pm
On 14 October 2004 the planning application for six flats on 2 Georges Wood Road was withdrawn at the applicant's request.

This was the third application in about a year for 6 flats on this site, plus a revised design submitted in September for this third attempt.

Makes you wonder what will happen to the application for two blocks totalling 10 flats on 103 Georges Wood Road.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 18, 2004, 02:59:48 pm
The application for 10 flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road will be considered at Welwyn Hatfield's Planning Committee meeting on Thursday 21Oct, starting at 7.30pm at Campus West, WGC - in the council offices not theatre or roller rink! The meeting is open to the public.

The planning officers have recommended approval but the committee will make the final decision.  I will let you know the outcome.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on October 18, 2004, 11:55:53 pm
This is awful, how come the planning officers are able to recommend approval? Has there not been as concerted an effort from local residents over 1 - 3 Georges Wood Road as there has been over number 2, or has it been ignored? It seems as if the developers are now adopting the cynical attitude of 'throw enough mud and some will stick' ie buy enough properties and put in enough planning applications for flats and the planning authorities will finally cave in.
Bob, is there anything else we can do at this eleventh hour?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 19, 2004, 01:03:00 am
I had the pleasure of visiting a Hick chalet bungalow in Potters Bar today, on professional business, and was mightily impressed with what I saw. BP residents who already live in one will already know that the main reception room is huuuuuuuuuuuge and the upstairs rooms are also well sized, which I was not expecting, having dormer windows, etc. But the main point of this ramble is to say that this particular part of Potters Bar has just been made a Conservation Area to prevent any more ill-advised alterations to the stock of Hick bungalows, which are of course an ever-decreasing number. If Hertsmere Council can value this type of property, surely Welwyn Hatfield should also do the same?

ATG

ps All the above is of course on the basis that this application is in fact in respect of the two houses immediately on the left as you enter GWR off Great North Road. But even if I am wrong, I still think Hertsmere have the right idea!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on October 19, 2004, 02:32:01 pm
In response to the post about whether there have been complaints from Georges Wood Road about the applications, there most certainly have been.

Vivian Weeks (Chairman of Georges Wood Frontiers Ass) has led the campaign here and I have spoken to him directly on a number of occasions to help and advise.

In terms of flats being built in Brookmans Park, apparently there's nothing in planning law which would prevent this from happening and hence the officers have recommended approval on more than one previous occasion.  The schemes have only been rejected when the actual elected Councillors, who are far closer to the wishes of the inhabitants of the village, have intervened at the last minute and turned down the applications.

That's one reason why it's very important to remember to lobby your councillors, as well as the planning officers (how are simply officials, professionally employed by the District Council).

There are 3 elected Councillors for Brookmans Park and these are their details.  Make sure you lobby them on any issues that concern you, including these planning matters. They are answerable to you and you should find them very responsive.

Councillor Stephen Boulton  
20 Moffats Lane
Brookmans Park
AL9 7RU  
Telephone: (01707)655999  
Email: stephen.boulton@welhat.gov.uk  
Party: Conservative  


Councillor Irene Dean  
42 New Park Road
Newgate Street Village
SG13 8RF  
Telephone: (01707) 873211  
Fax: (01707) 873211  
Email: irene.dean@welhat.gov.uk  
Party: Conservative  


Councillor John Dean  
42 New Park Road
Newgate Street Village
SG13 8RF  
Telephone: (01707) 873211  
Fax: (01707) 873211  
Email: john.dean@welhat.gov.uk  
Party: Conservative  


NOTE: Our Ward covers Brookmans Park, Little Heath and Newgate St Village.


Don't leave these planning application outcomes to chance or think that someone else is doing the lobbying on your behalf. If you don't like the application... object!

Grant Shapps
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: eric on October 20, 2004, 01:27:04 pm
What ARE peoples' developed thoughts re the following ?

Given that virtually everywhere in the country needs to increase the proportion of smaller residences (to meet demography, to replace smaller houses that have been extended beyond the size/price of essential-workers and suchlike):

should BP be exempt from providing an increase too ?

if so, why ?

if not, then where best provided ?   in what form ?
etc etc  

(setting aside the "anywhere but in my backyard" reaction for now)

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 20, 2004, 02:36:16 pm
It is now too late for any more lobbying, but 19 people did object to the proposed flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road, and 2 supported the application.  A major problem is that the Highways Dept at Herts CC have not objected.  Presumably it does not show up on their records as an accident black spot, but it certainly is not a junction I use willingly!

As chairman of the North Mymms Parish Council I intend to speak against this application at the WH Planning Committee meeting on 21 Oct. Earlier this year, I did manage to persuade the committee to refuse the recommended application for 6 flats opposite at 2 Georges Wood Road.  Whether I can do it again remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on October 20, 2004, 05:46:42 pm
Im sorry but I cannot understand all the fuss about flats in BP, Im sure they would be perfectly in keeping with the area and would probably look rather nice, hardly a monstrosity!  Also I know of a few older people who find their houses and gardens too much and would love to stay in BP and move to a flat, but alas they are few and far between, wonder why.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 22, 2004, 12:12:14 am
At their meeting on Thursday 21 October, Welwyn Hatfield Council refused permission for 10 flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road.  

I spoke against it as chairman of North Mymms Parish Council.  Vivian weeks also spoke against it as chairman of the Georges wood Road Frontagers Association.  Cllr Stephen Boulton as chairman of WH Planning Committee recommended refusal and the committee went with him.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 25, 2004, 01:04:50 pm
I have heard a rumour that some people have bought 2 houses on Brookmans Ave (opposite-ish each other) and are also intending to build flats.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Aidan
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 26, 2004, 09:00:46 pm
No planning applications made up to 22 October for any more flats.  

The track record for proposals for flats is five applications (three at the same address of 2 Georges wood Road) resulting in 2 withdrawals and three refusals.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 26, 2004, 09:04:37 pm
thanks Bob.

Aidan
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on October 28, 2004, 03:02:59 pm
Quote
I have heard a rumour that some people have bought 2 houses on Brookmans Ave (opposite-ish each other) and are also intending to build flats.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Aidan


News to me and highly unllikely. I think one will be knocked down soon but to be replaced with another house.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on October 28, 2004, 03:10:05 pm
A quick (off topic) question to Windors.

When I first moved to the village you always flew a Union Flag outside your offices and visitors to the village used to frequently comment on how nice they looked.

I've noticed their absence for the past couple of years.  What happened to them and do you have any plans to bring them back?

Grant Shapps
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 29, 2004, 01:04:46 am
Ah good sir, wouldn't it have to be an E-Union flag now?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on October 29, 2004, 12:10:59 pm
Quote
A quick (off topic) question to Windors.

When I first moved to the village you always flew a Union Flag outside your offices and visitors to the village used to frequently comment on how nice they looked.

I've noticed their absence for the past couple of years.  What happened to them and do you have any plans to bring them back?

Grant Shapps


I still have them in my office.
One day last year, a very nice man driving a very large lorry delivering stuff to the Co-Op, reversed said very large lorry onto the pavement outside my office and proceeded without due caution, into one of my brick piers demolishing it!
The pier has been 'repaired' but I dont think it is strong enough to support the flag.
I am glad you liked the flags. I will attempt to re-fly the good old Union Jacks again.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 29, 2004, 06:58:42 pm
I think flying the EU flag should be compulsory and that severe penalties should exist for non compliance.
Also its about time we all wised up and joined the Euro dollar before we are left behind.
regards,
Jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 29, 2004, 06:59:59 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on October 29, 2004, 08:28:32 pm
Really Aiden,
A most interesting view of the topic. I hadnt looked at the issue that way!!!!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: local_resident on December 12, 2004, 11:50:43 pm
9 Bluebridge Road

A second application (Reference S6/2004/1790/FP) has been submitted to Welwyn Hatfield Council for the demolition of existing dwelling at 9 Bluebridge Road, Brookmans Park. The new plan is to erect four apartments. Any comments should be made, without delay, in writing to: -

Mr C.J. Conway
Chief Planning & Environmental Health Officer
Council Offices
Campus East
Welwyn Garden City
Herts
AL8 6AE

If you wish to have your say, please write, as above.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on December 13, 2004, 11:30:21 am
Do you have any more details? Is the new block as large as the last plan etc?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 13, 2004, 02:31:32 pm
There is also a new application for 6 flats at 2 Georges Wood Road! What a surprise.

I will be looking at these two applications in the next few days and will update everyone about changes.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 17, 2004, 02:05:41 pm
My comments, as promised, on the two new planning applications for flats.  Welwyn Hatfield requires comments by 7 Jan 2005 (although later ones will be accepted) to Planning Dept, Welwyn Hatfield Council, Council Office, Campus West, WGC, AL8 6EA.  Please quote their reference number and the property address.

The plans can be seen at the Council’s reception – office next to Waitrose, WGC.  These comments are purely mine, without prejudice, and are my comparisons of the latest plans against the plans withdrawn recently.

S6/2004/1790/FP - 9 Bluebridge Rd Reduced from 5 flats to 4, now on 2 floors not 3.  Roof height now similar to next door.  Still 7 car spaces. When viewed from the church, the building is width has reduced from about 21m to 18.5m, and is possibly slightly less deep.  Now has a turret-like rounding of the right-hand corner without a turret roof.  Some slight errors in the drawings.  I have a couple of queries but need to discuss them with others.

S6/2004/1803/FP – 2 Georges wood Road. Still 6 flats and 2 storeys but now divided between two building, plus 10 car spaces.  Floor area reduced from 739 to 578 sq.m. (existing house is 259 sq.m.)  The block of 4 flats now has a glass roof over the stairwell.  No other changes apparent.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 17, 2004, 02:11:27 pm
Don't know what happened but the address disappeared. and the 'Bold' went wonky.

1790 is 9 Bluebridge Rd
1803 is 2 Georges wood Road.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on December 18, 2004, 08:52:47 am
Hi Bob,

I have fixed your previous post. The words have to go within the bold tags. What probably happened is that you highlighted the road name and then clicked on the bold button -- that would probably replace the words with the bold tags.

In future, click the bold tab, then write the words in between the two tags that appear in the page.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 01, 2005, 02:15:13 pm
9 Bluebridge Road - application to demolish and replace with 4 flats.  This was considered by Welwyn Hatfield Council on 28 January and refused.  Reasons not known but I will update you when I know what they were.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Saint_Mark on February 09, 2005, 11:01:03 am
Has anyone heard anything more on the flats at 2 Georges Wood Road? 6 flats on that road sounds strange.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 11, 2005, 08:08:35 pm
The two planning applications for flats to replace the houses at 2 Georges Wood Rd and 1-3 eorges Wood road are to be decided upon on 17 Feb.  They will be consided by Welwyn Hatfield Council planning committee meeting at Campus West, WGC starting at 7.30pm.  the planning officers have recommended approval.

It is open to the public, so if you intend to go, park in the car park for Campus West.  Although you will have to take a ticket when you go in, the barriers will be raised by the time you leave so it is free parking.

I will be speaking against these applications, being chairman of North Mymms Parish Council.  I expect someone from the Georges Wood Road Frontagers Assoc will also speak against them.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on February 11, 2005, 10:44:21 pm
Bob, can you remind us how many parking spaces have been set aside for the flats on Georges Wood Road please? Is it ten spaces for six flats?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on February 15, 2005, 11:24:15 am
Hi guys what was the outcome ??
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on February 15, 2005, 11:41:48 am
Hi Shads,

It says above that the planning meeting is on 17th February.  :)
Prev stated March in error.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: shads on February 15, 2005, 12:01:34 pm
sry should have read properly first.......oh and on reading again it says the 17th  Feb not Mar.........so i'm 2 days premature and Nevilles a month late
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 15, 2005, 07:10:02 pm
Dave asked about the number of on-site car spaces for the two planning applications.

2 Georges Wood Rd is for 6 flats with 10 car spaces.
1-3 GWR is for 10 flats and 16 car spaces.

The District Plan says a maximum of 1.5 car spaces per dwelling, so you can have an ordinary car and a Smart car - but not the 4 seater version!  Only joking  ;).  But no visitors with a car.

As I understand it, because GWR is unadopted, no traffic restrictions can be put in place at that junction with the A1000, and any yellow lines would have no legal standing.  Residents in Pine Grove tell me that the number of cars parked on the road caused by Chancellor's is increasing, with 6th formers going to school in their own cars.  A vehicle is regularly parked on this section of GWR apparently.  All ingredients for an accident if you ask me.  
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: eric on February 16, 2005, 05:54:30 pm
given that today's "Kyoto Day" it'd be interesting to know if Chancellors have got a "green" transport plan.  And if not, why not ?    School children claim to the be the most environmentally aware
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Blue Friday on February 17, 2005, 10:58:08 am
In answer to a question regarding cycling as an alternative means of transport to the site, the planning application for the new ICT building at Chancellors includes the following:-

"We understand that a travel plan is being developed."

Any ideas what this may be?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: eric on February 18, 2005, 10:19:50 am
it will be interesting to see what happens about this travel plan    What it says, and what it actually delivers.

Its supposed to set out how to reduce wasteful private traffic movements by cars by pushing for more car-sharing, more walking, more cycling and saving oil resources, reducing air pollution

Looking at some websites it seems that the vast majority will be untouched by these practical efforts and will just go on devouring our planet -

"we're all green and aware because I recycle a handful of domestic waste each week and drop off my empty booze bottles in the superstore car park     But Give up a car, air holidays, not have a dishwasher ?  Oh no

"I support the green belt:   look how much the price of my property has gone up

"its raining  I must drive my child to school     And the place is stiff with muggers

"there's no where to park because the planners have cut provision so as to put people off from driving.    But I NEED to drive so I'll park as close as I can in the nearest residential road


Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 18, 2005, 12:47:19 pm
Good news. :D

On 17 Feb Welwyn Hatfield planning committee refused permission for flats at 2 Georges Wood Road and at 1-3 GWRd.

My thanks to about 10 people who went to the meeting about these two applications - they left as soon as the decisions had been made so I assume they came for that reason.  Also thanks to Parish Cllr Cyril Everard who came with me as support.

Vivian Weeks also spoke as chairman of the Georges Wood Rd Frontagers Assoc.

During the meeting there was some discussion about other parish and town councils who object to planning applications but do not address the planning committee to expand on why they objected.  

This facility to speak has existing for a year now, and in that time North Mymms Parish Council has spoken 8 times now (3 times last night) and been successful 6 times.  Not a bad record.  For the other two times there were good reasons why approval was given, but it was worth speaking to ensure that our objection was well made.

With regard to 4 flats at 9 Bluebridge Road, the application was refused because the building would be an imposing, dominant structure out of character with the area, have an adverse impact on the street scene, and appear cramped within the plot.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on February 20, 2005, 12:05:22 pm
It seems strange that in a village where the in thing seems to be to build the largest mansion that will fill the plot or the ugliest extension possible that there can be so much objection to efficient well designed flats.
We have flats in the village centre which dominate the skyline. No one moans about them.
There seems to be a need for sensible housing because of the influx of so many supposedly neccesary imigrants.
The way forward is to provide flats.
Why should one family have a huge plot when 6 families could be comfortably accomadated in that same area.
Flats and high density housing seem to be acceptable elsewhere so whats so special about BP.
It seems like nimbyism to me.
Or is the real reason snobery.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 22, 2005, 01:13:07 pm
The 16 flats would have 26 on-site car spaces.  If the existing three houses were being approved today they would be allowed 2 spaces each, a total 6 off-road parking spaces.  Since some of these flats would be occupied by 2-car families, the 26 off-road spaces would be inadequate particularly when there were visitors, and cause on-street parking.

The government will not allow more parking places than 1.5 per dwelling (but you can't have half a space so it would be 2 per house).

What is already a difficult road junction would become very dangerous with on-street parking possibly for 24 hours a day.  Georges Wood Road is unadopted so there can be no enforceable parking restrictions at that junction.  

I hope that expains the major problem these flats would create.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on February 22, 2005, 04:48:47 pm
Am I to take it that government legislaton regarding car parking applies to new dwellings only?
Is it no longer legal to build a dwelling without parking places?
I find this strange.
We have a government that wants to reduce vehicles, yet it insists that parking places are provided.
I suppose that is why the flat where my friend resides in Stevenage which is new has 8 flats and 16 parking places.
I wonder that if the proposed flats were applied for with revised acceptable parking  spaces per flat then the plans would be passed?
This whole thing seems most interesting.
As for parking cars in the street, well lots of houses in Britain have cars parked in the street, nose to tail, so why is GWR any different to anywhere else.
Interesting
BTW the writer has no interests whatsoever in the flats. I am just curious about the whole affair.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 22, 2005, 07:13:42 pm
Have you tried to get in or out of Georges Wood Road at school run times or rush hours?  The road width is only sufficient for two vehicles, one either direction.  So one or more vehicles parked close to that junction will be a hazard and lead to accidents.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on February 22, 2005, 11:40:09 pm
No different to anywhere else at school time then :)
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 23, 2005, 05:57:14 pm
Apart from the 6th formers who travel to school in their cars and park all day, then form part of the school run traffic.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Johnny Redd on February 24, 2005, 07:08:39 pm
If this has been covered elsewhere then I apologise but Windsors have a sold board on the patch of land at 65 Peplins Way which states that it has been sold for development. Any ideas what is planned?????

:) >:( :o ??? :-\
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on February 24, 2005, 07:58:21 pm
I know. It's 63a actually. :)

One four bedroom detached house with 2 bathrooms and a single garage - and jolly nice it will be too!

It will be for sale when it is built.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 25, 2005, 01:15:38 pm
Welwyn Hatfield Council gave outline approval for a detached house on 13 August 2004.  This established the principle of building a house on the land.  Obviously this increased the value of the land.

Apparently this site was an access from Peplins Way road to railway land at the rear of some of the houses.  That rear land and access was acquired by the owners of those houses a few years ago enabling  them to extend their gardens down to the railway boundary.  So this access is now  redundant.  Some of the trees may be covered by a Tree Preservation Order.

This is a good example of 'infilling' and 'windfall' sites that help reduce the pressures to build on the Green Belt.

Before work can begin a detailed application will have to be made and approved, which will firm up the design of the house, protection of the trees etc.

CAR PARKING
In reply to JET's queries, it only applies to new housing.  The Government's PPG3 (Planning Policy Guidance Note 3) on Housing says at paragraph 62:
'Car parking standards that result, on average, in development with more than 1.5 off-street car parking spaces per dwelling are unlikely to reflect the Government's emphasis on securing sustainable residential environments.  Policies (in District Plans) which would result in higher levels of off-street parking, especially in urban area, should not be adopted'.  

These are maximum numbers, not minimums.  PPG3 paragraph 61 says that significantly lower levels should be allowed for housing for the elderly, students and single people where the demand for car parking is likely to be less than for family housing.  

I am sure residents of Hatfield will NOT agree with that, having attended Welwyn Hatfield planning committee meetings where student parking is a sore point.  

If you want the full text of PPG3 visit www.odpm.gov.uk and go to Planning and then PPGs.

PPG3 was updated in March 2000.  It is possible that the Stevenage development was given planning permission before that date, which is why it has more than 1.5 spaces per flat.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 04, 2005, 11:48:27 am
Life is never dull, even in the 'quiet' month of August.

A new application has just been made for 12 flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road.  Anyone who wrote to the council about the previous application may have been notified of this new one.  If not, I can let anyone have info once I have seen the application after 9 August.  You can e-mail me via this Forum.

The previous application for 10 flats was refused and the applicant has appealed.  That hearing will be on 6 December.  Just to complete the picture, applications for 6 flats opposite at 2 Georges Wood Road were also refused and an appeal made, with no date set for the hearing so far.

An appeal has also just been made concerning 9 Bluebridge Road.  The council refused permission to demolish the house, which is opposite the church, and replace with a block of 4 flats.  All those who wrote objecting to this application should have been notified by the council, but I can let anyone have info if they e-mail me via this Forum.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: flw67 on August 04, 2005, 12:36:51 pm
Why do you have a problem with these houses being turned into flats? 

People seems to get quite excited at the prospect of another planning application going in, just so they can all get together and complain about it.

There are some elderly people who live in BP who would like to move to a flat in the area, if they are well designed and easy on the eye, whats the problem?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Govvy on August 04, 2005, 02:34:25 pm
heh, don't you think they would get the hint by now that we don't want flats in Georges Wood Road?

I think we should forward something that can finally put a stop to it, there must be some way to say that those plots are for houses only and no flats can be built on that bit of land. Its hard enough seeing left and right there to have some massive building in the way to block your line of site.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on August 04, 2005, 05:40:07 pm
I agree with flw67. I see no harm in the idea of building flats per se, or of converting existing houses into flats. Obviously, any new building has got to be designed to fit in, but otherwise, what of it?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 05, 2005, 11:24:52 am
Parking is the major problem with the proposed flats on each side of Georges Wood Road next to the junction with the A1000.  The District Council maximum is 1.5 spaces per dwelling off-street.  These flats will attract two-car families, and when there are visitors there will be even more cars wanting to park on or close to the site of the flats.  This junction is already a hazard as anyone will know if you want to turn right out of Georges Wood Road onto the A1000. 

It is not legally possible to put yellow lines on the corner because GW Rd is unadopted.  Even if the GWR Frontagers Assoc were to paint yellow lines they would have no legal standing.

As for flats generally in the village, there are many houses on large plots of land.  Once approval is given to demolish one and erect a block of flats, it will set a precedent for many of the other large plots of land.  It will change the character of the village.

35 years ago I lived in Putney and the character of that pleasant area was changed by the demolition of large houses and replacement by blocks of flats.  Also take to trip down the A1000 to Totteridge and see all the blocks of flats lining each side of the A1000.  Developers would love to buy several adjoining properties in BP and replace with 'luxury' apartments.  Has anyone ever seen a sign advertising any that are not 'luxury'?  They would offer a substantial sum over market price to make it difficult to refuse.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on August 05, 2005, 12:32:12 pm
Bob

Can you explain why only 1.5 car spaces are provided per flat ? Is this the maximum or minimum per residence ?

Surely at least 2, if not 3 spaces per flat should be provided these days ??

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 05, 2005, 03:50:13 pm
Maximum.  Blame Mr Prescott who is conducting a war against cars.  All in the name of sustainability, whatever that means!  He wants us all to walk, cycle or use public transport.  And live near where we work and play. 

The existing houses at 1-3 GWRd and 2 GWRd have plenty of car parking spaces so there is no on-street parking problem at the moment.  Except when a GT Towing vehicle was parked outside 1-3 GWRd regularly in recent times.  That was just a foretaste of what the parking problem would be if the flats are built.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Cassie on August 05, 2005, 05:58:13 pm
Maximum.  Blame Mr Prescott who is conducting a war against cars. 

The same Mr Prescott who runs two jags?!!! :o
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on August 05, 2005, 10:56:38 pm
Bob

Are you actually saying that if a large carpark was incorporated into a planning application for a block of flats, conversion, or whatever, then permission could be refused on the grounds that there was too much parking provision ?

As the previous poster has said, Prescott is hardly qualified to implement these ridiculous rules.

I think it is right that as a general rule flats should not be encouraged in BP as it would alter the character of the area. That affects everyone who lives here, and I guess the large majority own our properties. It's likely that many flat developments will be undertaken by developers who don't live here and are motivated only by profit. So, after some consideration, I have to agree with Bob that such developments should be resisted.

There are several flats for sale in the village at the moment so it is not as though such properties are unavailable.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on August 06, 2005, 02:01:36 am
For those that do not know, "sustainability" in this context means trying to regulate our energy consumption so as not to exceed our means for energy production, usually with an eye to the indisputable fact that at the moment we are all benefiting from a cheap and so far abundant source of energy (oil) that is shortly going to run out, and for which there is as yet, no obvious, proven replacement.  As travel by individuals in cars is far less energy efficient than most other means of transport (bus, train, bicycle etc) it follows that the use of cars is, wherever possible, to be discouraged. Prescott is absolutely right on this point.

Off the topic I know, but it seems that some clarification was required on this point.

All I can say is that anyone who thinks parking is a problem in Georges Wood Road should try living where I do for a few weeks! There is no problem whatsoever that I can see.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on August 06, 2005, 03:59:54 pm
Travel by individuals in cars is in fact highly efficient, much more so than any form of public transport.
The car get one from where one is to where ones wants to go, anytime.
Of course this relates to sensible cars ( ie not 4wds).
As for sustainability, why are the governments of the British Isles ttrying their best to overload the sysems.
The answer I imagine is tax generation for silly ideas like wars and things.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on August 08, 2005, 10:46:02 am
In reply to Sasquartch, my guess is that the applicant would be told to submit new plans with no more than the maximum number of car spaces.

Having said that, the latest application for a country house at Friday Grove, Hawkshead Road, shows garaging and open air parking in excess of the 1.5 figure.  Curious!  Apart from the basic objection to this house on Green Belt land, the NM Green Belt Soc also commented on the apparent excess parking provision.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Lectricary on September 11, 2005, 09:46:22 pm
The Government's PPG3 (Planning Policy Guidance Note 3) on Housing says at paragraph 62:
'Car parking standards that result, on average, in development with more than 1.5 off-street car parking spaces per dwelling are unlikely to reflect the Government's emphasis on securing sustainable residential environments.  Policies (in District Plans) which would result in higher levels of off-street parking, especially in urban area, should not be adopted'.   

If this is correct how come 37 Mymms Drive, a new residence, has parking for about 12 cars, or, 8 4X4s
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on September 12, 2005, 11:43:20 am
Because if you pay the fees and know your way about you can do anything.
Would it be possible to create a mansion on a large plot and construct it in such a way that it would lokk right without a sweping drive etc.
Or perhaps new mansions should be all lawn with a single track leading to a garage?
Perhaps its all to do with the number of bedroooms? ie 6 double bedrooms could mean 12 occupants and thus 18 car parking spaces?
Yet another law that can be interpreted in a way that satisfies the well off?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 23, 2005, 05:04:49 pm
1-3 Georges Wood Road application is to be decided at the next Welwyn hatfield Planning Control Committee which meets at 7.30pm on Thursday 29 Sept at the Council Chamber, Campus West, WGC.  Officers are recommending approval saying it would not have an unacceptable impact on the residential amenity or highways related issues.  The report says the removal of the 'rear leg' of the building next to the A1000 has significantly reduced the overall bulk.

However the report says the council has not heard from Herts Highways!  It also says the parking provision ion excess of the District Plan maximum is not a grounds for refusal given the location.

I will be speaking against approval at that meeting as representative of the Parish Council.  All are welcome in support.  Parking is free at the adjoining carpark.  You take a ticket when you drive in but the gates will be raised by the time you leave.

4 flats at 9 Bluebridge Road - an appeal has been made against refusal.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 29, 2005, 09:19:04 pm
Thursday evening 29 Sept. Welwyn Hatfield planning control committee approved the 12 flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road.  the voting was 8 for, 5 against and 1 abstention.  There was a lengthy debate and the decision was not made lightly.

The Head of Development emphasised that each application has to be considered in isolation.  He did acknowledge that if this application was approved the character of the area would be changed and it now be more difficult to refuse any future applications for flats in the area.  He did say that this being a corner site made it different from most plots with large houses on them, so that could be used against arguments of precedence.

The argument about extra cars at this section of Georges Wood Road making it more difficult at school run time was discounted since all roads around all schools are dificult at school run times.  Herts Highways had no objections.

My thanks to the 5 or 6 people who attended the meeting for this item. 
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on September 29, 2005, 09:46:34 pm
I think I rather like this decision.   Flats in BP could be ideal for "grannies", "widows", "widowers". "returning ex-pats", etc etc.  There is probably a very good market for people who not want or need the hassle of large houses and gardens to maintain.

mary
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on September 30, 2005, 12:47:20 pm
That is a very good point, Mary. There are probably quite a lot of single older people (my mother for instance) who would quite like to have a smaller place to live in, and also possibly get a bit of cash back from the sale of the unnecessarily large houses they currently live in, without having to move out of the neighbourhood they have lived in for years. I'm sure no-one wants 60s style tower blocks in the village, but I see absolutely no harm in this kind of development.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on September 30, 2005, 10:54:37 pm
Oh well it took a bit of time but I was prooved right when I stated that anything would be permited after enough appeals had been made.
More council tax for W&H cc.
I hope they are built strong and on springs because no1 does'nt half shake when big lorries go past on the A1000.
I could never understand the council turning down the application in the first place when there have been flats in BP for years and they readily pass plans for monstrosities.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 01, 2005, 07:40:42 pm
Max & Mary, it is all very well for you commend the decision, but you don’t live in BP any more and you will not be affected by the fact that “character of the area would be changed.”
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 01, 2005, 09:46:38 pm
Err JF don't forget moi, I done a bunk as well!
Nobody cared when then small bungalow opposite where I used to live was demolished and turned into two enormous houses. A whole year of hell.
Well tough the GWR lot can put up with it now.
Imp land has hardly stayed the same as it was, 3 bed semis become 5 bed terraces, even worse than flats.
regards,
jet
Surrounded by suger beet, cows and smelly sheep :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 02, 2005, 10:40:25 am
John, are we only allowed to have opinions about places we live in then? I have views on many places that I do not live in and never will. They are based on how I imagine I would feel if I did live there. I do not think it would necessarily be a bad thing if when my mother becomes too old to cope with the fairly large house she curently lives in, she could find somewhere small without having to move from the place she has lived all her adult life.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on October 02, 2005, 06:49:46 pm
I am not sure how it can be said that this does not affect Max and myself, it does. 

During my life I have lived in the Parish of North Mymms for something over 50 years, 34 of those in BP, and still own property in the area.  I mentioned, among other groups, "returning ex-pats".    One of my options on retirement is to return the village where I had a brilliant childhood and a great life.  There are, of course, other options.    Jet may yet find me as a next door neighbour :), or I may prefer sunnier climes.  8) 

As Max has said, he has a mother living there.

If we were not affected by or interested in what happens in Brookmans Park we would not have signed up on this website.

Mary

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 02, 2005, 07:00:44 pm
As for myself I am not even an ex pat, I am a citizen of Europe who is excersing his right to travel and live anywhere that will have him.
It is not as easy living out of England as it appears, some other European countries have much stricter laws to obey regarding day to day life than Blighty.
Free and easy it isn't different it is.
My affection for BP is based on 20 years and 2 houses, it was a very English place to live.
Once very quiet and polite, sadly not as nice as it once was.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 02, 2005, 07:09:09 pm
JET, I didn’t comment on your post because you didn’t really state a view.

Max, you are completely entitled to your views and are – rightly - free to voice them. But when your views are based upon what you “imagine” to be true and when you will not be effected in any meaningful way by the consequences of a decision, then I feel it is only reasonable to point out that your views lack a certain gravitas.

Mary, you may be interested in BP, but signing up to a web forum does not mean that you are affected by in any meaningful way by changes to BP. A vague idea about possibly returning to an unspecified location at an unspecified date doesn’t really change that.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on October 02, 2005, 08:05:49 pm
John, you are wrong - I hold a British Passport, could have an Irish one if I wanted to, but essentially am a born and bred Brookmans Parkian.  At the moment I happen to be an ex-pat

There was nothing "vague" about my wish to return, it was top of my priorities.

Perhaps Jet is right, it has changed - it is a shame.  There were a lot of nice people there in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.    I am sad because I now feel that I would not be welcome back there, so perhaps you have convinced me to forget about this website and look elsewhere.

M


Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 02, 2005, 08:14:19 pm
Quote
One of my options on retirement... or I may prefer sunnier climes

Seems pretty vague to me.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mary_Morgan on October 02, 2005, 08:25:34 pm
Perhaps you do not have a logical mind, it was the first one I mentioned because it was uppermost in my mind.   
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 02, 2005, 09:28:59 pm
Oh dear oh dear, I clicked on the link for this post and found two or three people squabbling like children. I thought the thread was "Flats in B Park" not "who has the right to air their views on this forum"

ATG

ps If 1-3 Georges Wood has gone to flats, surely WHDC cannot now reasonably oppose the flats proposed for 2 Georges Wood except on size/density, etc
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 02, 2005, 09:33:20 pm
JF I was just sticking my trunk in and making a contribution, not really replying to you.
One thing about Ireland, there is little pressure, if any, people are polite, kids don't scream.
Just like BP 20 years ago which is why I moved over.
Its the squabbling on this site that makes me realise how wound up everyone is.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 03, 2005, 08:42:40 am
Max, you are completely entitled to your views and are – rightly - free to voice them. But when your views are based upon what you “imagine” to be true and when you will not be effected in any meaningful way by the consequences of a decision, then I feel it is only reasonable to point out that your views lack a certain gravitas.

John, most of our views are based on what we imagine the outcome of a certain action will be, so to that extent, they nearly all lack gravitas, by your definition. This applies to issues from planning permission in a Hertfordshire village to the invasion of Iraq or whether there is a God. In as much as what happens in Brookmans Park affects my mother, I could claim that this in turn affects me in a way that could be considered meaningful, although I admit that attaching importance to the well being of one's mother is a subjective value judgement, and quite possibly also lacking gravitas!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: anna on October 03, 2005, 09:42:01 am
JF, I think its says a lot about BP that people who no longer live are still passionate about the area where family and friends live.   I find it very upsetting that you feel there view is not important.

I still visit this site often to find out what is going on in the area, but rarely post anymore because of opinions like yours.

However, seeing as I once lived in Number 1 GWR I guess I can have an opinion on that one!!!   

I am sure once the flats are built they will add value to the area, and the houseing market might start moving again. There are many people who have lived in BP all their lives, and still live in the big family homes because they don't want to move out of the area. The flats will mean they can stay local, near their friends without the upkeep of a large house.   

People who live in Brookmans Park hate change, but sadly you can't control everything that happens around you, perhaps one day when you retire JF, you might be very grateful for those flats! 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, whether they live in BP or now, what stopped me from posting on this site was the feeling that I am longer welcome as an ex-pat, but I'm still interested in the area enough to come and read what is going on.   

Max & Mary & Jet, perhaps we need to set up the Ex- BP site. Where we can still chat and share views without fear of being shouted down.

On the other hand, I could just sit back and enjoy amazng views from my window of the mountains and the suns glare on the calming blue sea. Think I might go for a swim soon! :)

Have a nice day everyone:)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 03, 2005, 12:16:07 pm
I really do not see how I can be accused of shouting down other peoples opinions. I can see why you think that I said your opinion “was not important”, but if you read what I said, as opposed to what you feel I said, then you will see I didn’t do that either. Nor have I ever said that an opinion was not welcome for whatever reason. Even if I felt that – which I don’t – it isn’t up to me to decide.

I am a great believer in freedom of speech, but if you post your opinion for the world to read then you have to accept that your opinion may get challenged. And challenge it is all I did. I felt – and still feel – that you and Max are welcoming a decision whose possible negative aspects will have little or no effect on you. This is my opinion and like you I am free to post it.

If you feel that I am shouting you down and wish to go off to a new board then I feel it will diminish this board. I may not always/often/ever agree with you, but debate here is enjoyable.

Max, of course all opinions on possible and likely outcomes are based upon “imagination,” but this is not the same as imagining what it is like to live somewhere and basing your opinion on that.
 
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 03, 2005, 02:27:48 pm
Well, put it this way John. If I know as an absolute fact that something would not bother me where I currently live, then it strikes me as not unreasonable to assume that it would not bother me anywhere else either. Perhaps "imagine" was the wrong word, or perhaps you do not realise that in certain circumstances it can be used as a synonym for "assume" and this was one of those circumstances. I'll have to be more careful in future. Couldn't have going around saying that I lack gravitas (oh the shame of it!).
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 03, 2005, 03:38:21 pm
Sounds like a Dictionary job to me?
Perhaps an Esperanto Euroland one?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Kate Hart on October 03, 2005, 09:07:31 pm
If the application for flats in Bluebridge Road is approved this would be far more convenient for access to the shops and the pub than the back end of GWR is.

K
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 04, 2005, 10:01:30 am
Anna & Mary,

My apologies, I mistook Anna’s comment yesterday as being from Mary. I think this is fairly clear in my reply. However, having looked back at some of the “discussions” I’ve had with Anna I am still at a loss as to why I am being accused of shouting people down here


Generally I am not sure how I stand on these flats. I doubt they will be suited to a retired person, but there are flats at Bradmore Green that are as old as the village. Is the main object that these are the first of many?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 04, 2005, 10:34:15 am
In reply to John Fraser, a major fear is that these flats will be first of many, as witness the A1000 south of the Barnet Odeon or The Ridgeway into Enfield.  That comment was made by Cllr John Mansefield at the Planning meeting last Thursday but he was ignored.

We already have had several applications for flats opposite at 2 GWR, the latest refusal having gone to appeal.

At the planning meeting the committee were advised by the Head of Development that if they approved 1-3 GWR then any subsequent application for flats in that area would be more difficult to refuse because this approval would have changed the character of the area. It was called the domino effect.

the flats at Bradmore Green are more of a starter home style and maybe the cheapest property in Brookmans Park.  The flats on GWR will be top quality no doubt, to reflect the address.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on October 04, 2005, 10:51:24 am
the flats at Bradmore Green are more of a starter home style and maybe the cheapest property in Brookmans Park. 

Er.. no I think us cheapo's in Station Close have that claim to fame  :)

James
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 04, 2005, 12:20:52 pm
Hi James - Station Close was what I meant.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 04, 2005, 12:36:04 pm
At last the time warp people of BP will find out what the rest of the country has to put up with.
Unrestricted destruction of the neighbourhood.
Its not as if the place is old enough to be listed.
Truth is a lot of the big houses have become too much for the resident. They are in a lot of cases fit for complete refurbishment.
Its easier to knock down and build again, which is what is happening.
I don't like it, but thats progress I am afraid.
Thanks to Bob and others for their efforts but the rot started 10 years ago and was bound to have an escalating effect.
I have allways had a feeling ( paranoia?) that the council does not like BP. If they can dismantle it, they will.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: AgentOrange on October 05, 2005, 10:35:11 am
I think you will find the VAT system is to blame. No VAT is payable on demolition, whereas modifications and refurbishement are subject to VAT. This makes demolition a much more atrractive option. Ask the owner of any historic country house. So don't blame the local council (whose councillors we elect, remember - so we can voice our disapproval at election time), but rather blame HM Treasury.
Personally, I am not too worried. There is a block of flats adjacent to the A1000 in Little Heath: I have not seen a rash of flats (is that a new collective noun?) in that area. So whether the new flats will be the start of something, who knows..... Great noise breakers for the M1000!

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 05, 2005, 02:52:11 pm
Gresley Court, on the corner of the A1000 and Hawkshead Rd is not the only one in Little Heath.  There are lots more as a trip down Church Road will prove, and Thornton Road.  There are persistant rumours about the future of Claregate almost opposite Gresley Court.

Brookmans Park is a totally separate village so it would be wrong to use Gresley Court as a reason to permit flats in Brookmans Park.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: AgentOrange on October 05, 2005, 06:08:11 pm
Well I stand corrected! I was suggesting that Gresley Court was a reason not to worry, not a planning precedent. Nevertheless, the reality may be less ruinous than some fear. Little Heath remains attractive. I have no doubt that WHDC and our councillors will try to ensure that it remains so - flats or not. :)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 10, 2005, 05:21:29 pm
Re 1-3 Georges Wood Road.  You will not be surprised to learn that, having received pernmission to build 12 flats on this site, the two appeals agaibst previous refusals have now been withdrawn.

The appeal re 2 Georges Wood Rd still has to have its hearing date arranged.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: eric on October 10, 2005, 06:51:47 pm
just trying to summarise
 
we dont want any building in the countryside ?
we dont want any building in the village unless its nice, grand or for me ?
therefore we want any building that has to take place to go anywhere else but here such as in old slum areas or suchlike within cities

or is that what was being said hereabouts in the twenties, thirties and fourties when the sporadic houses being dumped down hereabouts started to become the new commuter dormitory of BP and the green belt had to imposed ?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 12, 2005, 02:40:51 pm
The latter!

If the Green Belt had not existed for the last 50 years we would now be part of London.  But being secretary of the local Green Belt Soc you would expect me to say that of course.  The 1,200+ membership of that society would seem to indicate many locals of the same opinion.

Some building in the Green Belt is appropriate, and a new Park and Ride for 800 cars, plus new football grounds and changing rooms and spectators stand at Angerland Common (on South Way between the cemetery and A1M) is appropriate.  That will also help with the parking problems in Hatfield.

 But I digress, as ever.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 12, 2005, 04:24:56 pm
I hesitate to state, but I really cannot see how 800 car parking spaces, hardly used football pitches and half empty park and ride buses can be appropriate on green belt land?
Why does valuable land suddenly become available for people who wish to play a minority sport.
Note "play" rather than "watch" as very few people participate in football.
Truth is that all this building nonsense is to accomadate people who have no valid reason to be in England other than take advantage of the free wellfare/education system to the cost of the indiginous tax payer.
All as per EU dictate.
I can only think of one thing worse and that is for Brits to go to Ireland and inflate the property market with sterling.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 12, 2005, 05:07:11 pm
I personally am very much in favour of preserving the green belt as I have no desire to see London stretch from Brighton to Cambridge. But does the replacement of two houses by some flats really endanger the green belt?

(JET, is it possible for you to put up a contra argument without resorting to paranoid EU rants at some point?)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 12, 2005, 08:48:56 pm
NO John, because everything bad about this country has been caused by the EU.
Its not paranoia its true, its all around us, all consuming and all controlling.
The question is when are people going to wake up and do something about it.
The answer is never because we are all so busy having a go at each other and dividing ourselves so that others may conquer.
Heres a hint, Germany is now the biggest exporter in the EU, that means that it is in receipt of the most Euros. That makes it powerful. Does that ring a bell. 1930s.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: eric on October 13, 2005, 03:59:28 pm
Dear Bob    do you know or would it be interesting to find out and let us know how many of your members live in properties that have been built  extended or improved since the green belt was set up to cover the BP area ?   Because all those would be saying one thing and dpoing another

yrs  Eric
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 13, 2005, 04:12:29 pm
That would only be true if the members objected to all planning aplications at all times. From Bob's own posts you can see that this is not the case.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 13, 2005, 05:04:37 pm
Currently we have 1,235 members of the NM Green Belt Soc so it would be a huge task to find out how many of them live in houses that have been extended.   My house has been for one.

the flats at Georges Wood Road are not in the Green Belt but the objectives of the society are the protection of the Green Belt and amenities of the parish.  The character of the place is an amenity - a solicitor confirmed this to me.  This is why the parish council and Green Belt Soc both objected to these flats.

Park and Ride is a legitimate use of green belt land according to central government policy guidance, as is football pitches and associated facilities.  The proposal at Angerland Common, South Way is for a new home for Hatfield Town football club.  There will be other pitches for amateur clubs to play there as well. The Park and Ride is to relieve the parking problem in Hatfield.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 13, 2005, 07:32:58 pm
This is scary.
So in theory town car parks could be turned into flats, parking places could be remote with park and ride to service them.
Green belt land could become full of sports pitches with leisure centres/car parks/associated shops tagged on.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on October 13, 2005, 07:58:51 pm
I don't see the problem. Places are always changing. They seldom remain as they were when we first set eyes on them. They changed before we arrived, they'll change while we are here, and they will change after we have gone. That's the way it is.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 14, 2005, 08:49:20 pm
I thought the idea of the green belt was to preserve certain areas of countryside for future generations to enjoy.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 17, 2005, 10:35:52 am
Green Belt policies do not sterilize the countryside.  The objective is to keep the open spaces for enjoyment.  Is JET suggesting that upgrading existing playing fields will not do that?

As for Park and Ride, a study has been carried out to find the most appropriate location for a new Park and Ride facility to replace the one which was on the Hatfield Aerodrome and has now been built on as part of the redevelopment of that site.  Angerland Common was found to be the most beneficial site.

Although the footballers and supporters will not require 800 car spaces when they attend a Hatfield Town FC game, or play in the amateur games at weekend, they will use the same car parking that will be used during the week for another set of users.  Sounds sensible to me. 
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 17, 2005, 11:32:10 am
Err? ecuse moi? where did I comment about upgrading existing playing fields.?
My interpretation was that a new playing field,etc etc was being built on green belt land.
My contention was that I thought green belt land was there to allow countryside to remain between developed land for the enjoyment of those that wish to walk on it and fot the benifit of wildlife to survive.
Your comments read that anything that Bob agrees with is okay, ie football fields, but anything that someone else wants is not okay. ie flats in an allready built up area.
I am sure you cannot mean that, but that is how it reads.
If anyone wants to impove Hatfield then re develop the Airfield, bring back aircraft and associated manufacturing and allow people to proliferate through skilled work and a purpose.
Rather than keep the forgotten inhabitants of Hatfield occupied by providing a football field for the few.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on October 17, 2005, 05:16:03 pm
Jet

The old BAe site IS being redeveloped, there are now a large number of buildings on the site, prominent names if I remember correctly include Computacenter, Royal Mail and T-Mobile. These must employ lots of people, surely a significant number are local.

Why would it be a good idea to bring back aircraft manufacturing ? This would only be a good idea if a profitable business can be sustained - I can only presume that BAe's business changed and the site was no longer viable or required. Just to start a business for sentimental reasons makes no sense to me.

Yes, BAe employed many skilled people, some of those skills are no longer required, some new ones will inevitably have replaced old skills. That's progress. I'm sure there are lots of skilled people employed at T-Mobile, clearly there will different skills required for a different business type.

Hatfield has been in steady decline for years, at last I think it is beginning to revive, in no small way because of the new businesses that have chosen to locate there. Once the shopping centre in the town centre has been redeveloped I think Hatfield will be a far better place.

In the meantime, improved sports facilities and park-and-ride all help to regenerate the area for everyone, whether you work, live or study in Hatfield.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 17, 2005, 08:19:56 pm
The airlines are all expanding, it would be nice if Britain could provide a bit more than the wings.
No sentimentality at all.
Great long runway, safe areas each end. Would make a convenient take off point for the population of N London/Herts, saving lots of traveling to Stanstead/HR. Train line exists.
Ideal for short haul business flights to Uk/continent. Plenty of room for parking.
Aircraft maintainance and its satelite industries ( even the tea/roll wagon) could provide more tangible revenue than the council raiding BPs council tax to rebuild somewhere that just needs a bit of effort to lift from its pit.
Sadly I think any new town centre in Hatfield will be graffitied before its finished.
Well aware of T mobile, been there. My commisserations to anyone who wants to work in the stark glass fish tank of a place.
When will this country wake up and realise that Banking/insurance and sports centres will not support Britain in the World market.
Euro turns up, British banks will collapse, the low investment returns associated with Euroland will mean that no one will need to invest in Britain. Banque Santander showed what can happen. Insurance ?well a few more disasters and the names will be dissapearing faster than the penny. Sports centres are leisure they are a luxury dependant on spare cash.
Gear up, export or sink!
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 18, 2005, 10:41:47 am
Good old JET, stirring up the pot yet again. 

It is not what I personally like or dislike that matters.  As secretary of the NM Green Belt Soc I am giving you the benefit of my knowledge about what is and is not appropriate in Green Belts according to government policy.  That includes football fields, and there are existing football fields at Angerland Common which will be upgraded.

But to follow up JET's comments about Britain in decline due to reduced manufacturing, I find it curious that Banco Santander, E.on (German owner of Powergen), French ownership of Three Valleys Water, and other foreign companies are busy buying up British companies.  This has nothing to do  with flats in BP but why are they so keen to buy into a country said to be in decline?  Also the British economy is the fourth largest in the world. WE cannot be that bad.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 18, 2005, 12:25:48 pm
Not stirring, just asking questions, no need to be defensive.
I repeat I got the impression that the football pitch etc was on green belt land and was new. Not redeveloped.
Sorry I just don't/didn't? understand. Which is why I asked for clarification.
Santander snapped up a company with massive assets for a low price due to the business making a bad change of policy by going into insurance. It has made a fortune from this deal and ripped off lots of shareholders.
The companies you mention that have been taken over by foreign companies are all service industries with guaranteed profits. The profits are being taken back to the holding companies abroad.
They now control the very infrustructure of the country.
This is very dangerous.
I think its very relevent to BP.
Lets not rest on laurels where the ecconomy is concerned, its still very much share price based rather than asset based, Dodgy.
The goverment is also doing very well on the VAT rip off on fuel price rises.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on October 18, 2005, 12:38:42 pm
Jet - at first I thought you were wanting aircraft manufacturing to return to Hatfield, now you are saying have an airport on the site.
Well, there is an airport just up the road at Luton which caters for short haul and holiday travel. So there isn't a need to travel to either Stansted or Heathrow in many cases. Do we really need another airport, especially in view of the fact a significant amount of pollution (well CO2 at least) comes from aircraft. With Heathrow bound traffic coming over Hatfield and Stansted 'stacks' and flight paths nearby it may not be practical anyway to shoe-horn an airport into ever more crowded skies. I do know that many years ago Hatfield was considered as a site for a new London airport, but was rejected, although I don't know on what grounds.

Yes, it would be nice to make more than just the wings for Airbus aircraft but the fact is that cheap air travel relies not only on cheap fuel but cheap (relatively) aircraft which require minimal maintenance to maximise their time in the air. Aircraft that meet these requirements require a huge investment and need to be made in large numbers for the manufacturers to break even. Over the years the aerospace industry has steadily consolidated to the point where the market for large passenger jets (in the western world) is dominated by Airbus and Boeing. Indeed, I used to work for the world's second largest aerospace company - McDonnell Douglas - that no longer exists in its own right having merged with Boeing. So it would be incredibly difficult to start up aircraft manufacturing again - making a very important part of Airbus aircraft is better than nothing.

I agree that people's lives do improve with purpose and skilled work, whether in Hatfield or elsewhere, but aircraft manufacturing or an airport are not the way to do it.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 18, 2005, 01:12:20 pm
Err, I said aircraft and associated manufacturing. The  manufacturing does not have to be aircraft based.
Just seems strange to have this great huge "aerodrome" area and not use it for things to do with aircraft or real industry.
There is a ready market for lightish aircraft doing charter flights. Business not holidays.
Stapleford does well from a similar set up, with diverse business on its site.
I was not suggesting a copy of the big 3 (4) I was suggesting something to compliment it.
Of course as you say its incredibly difficult to start up aircraft manufacturing, in fact the various aerospace factories around the country are actually declining.
This is not to do with any inability of the company or the lack of local skills. It is to do with EU constraints which force the work to be farmed out around the EU.
This policy cost the writer his business. Another industry closing due to the EU.
Do you really want me to go into the EU dictate that says that all largish projects have to be put forward in such a way as to allow tenders from the whole of the EU.
In other words there is not going to be much competitive tendering by English companies for anything anywhere when the countries with the low costs gear up.
Skilled work and achievement are paramount to peoples well being, pride in what they can produce coupled with long term hope would work wonders in this alcohol and drug ridden society.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: john on October 19, 2005, 03:19:18 pm
I often ponder on what maps of different vintages show us:  here one before the green belt got under way, and t'other showing how much housing development has taken place nonetheless (rather than just jumping to the "But it'd ALL have been built up if ..." argument)

bw  - j

(I must stress that the attached image must NOT be copied, reproduced, etc without seeking due permissions ...)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: AgentOrange on October 19, 2005, 04:36:42 pm
Jets facts are wrong.
1) Airbus farmed out the work across its member companies (Spanish, French and British I think - if I have left out the Italians or the Germans I apologise). Like all negotiations inside a multinational company, they are inherently political and reflect the balance of power in the company. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU.
2) The OJEC procedures to which jet refers were designed to foster a single market and to reduce corruption and favoritism on the award of contracts. So the UK gets access to a market of 200 million people. Sounds as if it is good for business.  That's one of the reasons why the EU is our biggest trading partner. They do not cripple businesses, other than those that are corrupt or inefficient anyway.
3) Of course skilled work is important to people's dignity and status. But as one set of skills decline, others are needed. The trick is to be able to retrain and redeploy. Not easy, but that is the role of government. To keep people in skilled jobs in sunset industries is to give them false hope. This country went through a lot of pain in the 1970s. 80's and 90's. Manufacturing declined heavily (although it's been in decline in the UK since 1871, so not big news). But people have reskilled and retrained and we have a growing economy and high employment. Look at Germany and France: 10%+ unemployment, soaring public debt, inefficient industries (often state subsidized or state run). They are about to face the 1970s and 80s that we did. Ouch.
4) What skills does an aerodrome bring other than low skill manual labour? None. Rather dig it up and do something useful with it. There's always Panshanger if you want a light charter, or Stansted / Luton for something bigger.
5) The trick for the planners is to recognise change of use from one thing for another and to support new business without ripping up the Green belt.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 19, 2005, 05:13:17 pm
Airbus farmed out the work because to get the contract approvals needed they had to spread the work out amongst the member countries that had facilities to carry out the work.
It is obviously grossly inneffeicent to make bits of aircraft and transport them about for assembly.
The airbus and aerospace industries in Britain have had to contract considerably because of this.
The effect was to dissmantle the chances of Britain ever being an end product aircraft manufacturer again.
It is not possible for British companies to competitively tender for these type of projects because fuel costs are much cheaper on the continent and of course its logistically difficult for British companies to transport things because  there is something called the channel.
So Air transport is a Sunset industry is it?  it isn't Laker in the 70s its an expanding market entering the space age with upper atmosphere air transport taking off soon.
Aerodromes are low skill employers are they, how do you work that out. Oh of course the pilots sweep up when its a bit quiet between moonlighting at Mc Donalds.
Why are they moonlighting at Mc Donalds because the EU forced the JAA & JAR on us, the effect was to raise the cost of flight training in this country by 30%. Of course Britain is the only country to obey the regs. Plus G Brown abolished tax breaks on training.
As for charters from Panshanger, there is only one runway ( no good in a cross wind)which is too short for much more than a 4 seater, no ATC facilities, no night licence.noise restrictions because of the estate at the side.
Oh do your research AO, go look at Panshanger. Its grass!
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Neville Hobbs on October 19, 2005, 05:31:15 pm
What does all this most interesting stuff about aircraft manufacturing have to do with building flats in Brookmans PArk?
 ???
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 19, 2005, 06:37:27 pm
Quite, perhaps we should split this topic out.

A
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 19, 2005, 07:42:45 pm
Its all to do with green belt planning and how sites are redeveloped.
All part of the big picture.
As for this huge EU market, what are we selling them?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Max on October 19, 2005, 09:43:15 pm
If someone were to start a discussion about the sexual initiation rites of adolescent Trowbriand Islanders, Jet could probably still turn it into a discussion about the supposed evils of the EU.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: jet on October 19, 2005, 10:44:36 pm
Its strange that you should mention the Trowbriand islanders, their ancient rites have now been baned by dictate of the EU following thier huts being turned into flats on brown belt sand. More victims of the unelected Empire..........
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Kate Hart on October 20, 2005, 05:55:47 am
Perhaps the Planning Department at WH Council might get some tips from this publication. ;)

Costigan, Kenneth
DATES OF RESIDENCE AND LOCATION: Visited various Trobriand villages over a period of years. 1973 a two day survey visit, 1974 two weeks in Omarakana, 1975 two weeks split between Yalumgwa, Moligilagi, and Wemwata, 1978 two weeks at Obwada and in 1994 a brief visit to Kwebwaga.
OCCUPATION: Architect
TOPICS OF PUBLICATIONS: Trobriand construction techniques and building designs
CONTRIBUTION: Unique source of information on structural and decorative details of various kinds of traditional buildings such as yam houses.
AFFILIATION: University California at Berkeley MA 1995

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 12, 2005, 02:43:58 pm
9 Bluebridge Road, opposite the church.

In 2004 a planning application for 5 flats on 3 floors was withdrawn and a new one submitted for 4 flats on 2 floors. This was refused in January 2005 and an appeal was made.  That appeal has just been upheld and permission granted but with obscure glass in the upstairs windows overlooking 7 Bluebridge.  The main consolation for neighbours is that the new building will only be on 2 floors and next door will not be overlooked.

103 Georges Wood Rd

Planning permission was granted in September for 12 flats in 2 blocks.  The NM Green Belt Soc has now received legal advice that this decision cannot be challenged.  It was worth a try!   :(  At least we know for certain that there is nothing further that can be done about it.  Had we not obtained that legal advice we would have always wondered 'what if...?'

That just leaves 2 Georges Wood Rd to be decided.  Permission was refused for 6 flats on that site and an appeal made.  We have not been notified of the date for the hearing but will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Alfred the Great on December 12, 2005, 09:41:01 pm
I think it is inevitable that this sort of thing will continue. I noticed in Hadley Wood last month that the very grand chateau like house at the top of Camlet Way had gone over, and the signs outside are now advertising four deluxe six bedroom houses in gated grounds. And another massive house on Cockfosters Road (the stockbroker Tudor style one near Greenoak Place) has also gone, but not sure if this is for flats or another mega-house.

The planners will always tend to approve these applications because it puts the density up without impinging on the green belt. But for how long?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on March 07, 2007, 11:33:35 am
An update.

Planning permission was given on appeal for 6 flats at 2 Georges Wood Road.

A new planning application was made towards the end of 2006 for 8 flats at this address, and it has just been approved.  Externally the buildings will be similar to the approved design since the flats are smaller.  The major visible change will be underground car parking similar to the development opposite.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on May 31, 2007, 12:57:35 pm

Yes, the applications to turn family homes into blocks of flats continue to arrive at the council offices...

This time it's the turn of 58 Bluebridge Road, right beside the entrance to Gobions. Application no S6/2007/0783/FP is to demolish the existing house and build 5 flats!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on May 31, 2007, 03:42:21 pm
Only to be expected after the approval of flats opposite the church on Bluebridge Road and the two sites on Georges Wood Road.  Two of those three sites were approved on appeal by planning inspectors after refusal by Welwyn Hatfield Council.

Parking would seem to be an obvious area of concern but Welwyn Hatfield Council might find it difficult to refuse permission if the application meets the parking standards as contained in the District Plan.

The application was only received this week so I have not yet seen the plans etc.  If anyone would like my opinion, after seeing the drawings next week, please IM me using the symbol at the side of this posting.  But it would simply be my opinion!!!!!!!

Incidentally, the current parking problem on Georges Wood Road should cease once the off-street parking spaces have been finished by the end of next week, or so I am told.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: MikeL on June 01, 2007, 01:15:07 pm
Maybe the following will have an effect on the planning application. But I doubt it as developers here seem to be able to sell every flat they build. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/29/nhouses29.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/29/nhouses29.xml)
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on June 01, 2007, 04:53:32 pm
The point that MikeL raised is a national picture and the huge number of Manchester city centre flats quoted in the article are, or were, mainly conversions of disused industrial buildings or sites.  Being my home city I have a particular interest in how that city has greatly increased the number of central properties in recent years. 

The situation is very different in Brookmans Park, and apparently all 4 flats opposite the church were sold 'off the drawing board' i.e. before being built.  The flats at 1-3 Georges Wood Road are now on the market so it will be interesting to see how quickly they get sold.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Laurel on June 08, 2007, 04:09:02 pm
Hi there,

It's Laurel here from the Welwyn & Hatfield Times. If anyone would like to talk to me about this and how Brookmans Park seems to be increasingly a place for flat development, that would be great.

My number is 01707 327551.

Thanks

Laurel
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on June 08, 2007, 07:52:15 pm

I'm not sure we want to draw attention to it, otherwise we'll have even more developers sniffing round!!
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bobb on June 11, 2007, 09:34:29 am
The problem with building flats is that it leads to a downward spiral.

I'm not sure how many of us remember the Ridgeway in Enfield but when I was a kid that used to be a great road with a great spirit and large houses. Then one or two blocks of flats were built, that led to more blocks being built of not quite the same high standard and so on. Now the entire road is basically flats which now house DSS etc and the area has gone downhill in little over a few decades.

BP is a fantastic area with a great community spirit - As a fairly new resident I appreciate that and would be devastated to see it go the way of the Ridgeway.

Can we as residents fight the developers who seek to kill the community?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on June 11, 2007, 09:47:33 am
Quote
Can we as residents fight the developers who seek to kill the community?

Yes - if the people with large houses don't sell them to developers then they won't be developed.

It reminds me of people from just about anywhere in the country complaining that local people cannot afford to buy local houses - yet it is local people selling the very same houses (at the market rate) to people from outside of the area.

Ultimately it is market forces - if people are willing to pay £600k+ for a (albeit very nice I'm sure) single flat in GWR then it's a trend that will only continue.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on June 11, 2007, 11:06:52 am
The problem with building flats is that it leads to a downward spiral......

Can we as residents fight the developers who seek to kill the community?

I'm not sure where the link between flats and loss of community comes from. I live in a flat in Brookmans Park and consider myself to be reasonably active in the local community. Why - just because people perhaps do not have a big house as others does it mean that they are not community minded?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bobb on June 11, 2007, 11:38:11 am
Hi James,

Not at all - The point I was making was that when houses are torn down and replaced by ever poorer quality flats which are then bought and rented out - as in the case of the Ridgeway - those transient renters add little to the community in general. I speak from personal experience where many places were let to DSS (because of the guaranteed rents) and the spirit of the local community was broken due to the influx of non-community minded people.

I think BP is a great community and one of the few places where people say 'Hello' on the streets rather than just push by and I for one want to preserve this.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on June 11, 2007, 12:16:19 pm
Good point Bobb, but I suspect that DSS put a limit on what rents they will pay.  If the price of the flats opposite the church were as high as I am told they were (all sold of the drawing board) then new flats in Brookmans Park are likely to require a high rent to make them worth renting out. 

Once the first approval was given for flats in Brookmans Park, followed up by two other approvals being given by Planning Inspectors for the other two sites, it was obvious that the door had been opened.  The planning authority - Welwyn Hatfield Council - had its hands tied by those two appeal decisions, one of which resulted in costs being awarded against the council.

Bobb says he is a fairly new resident to the village.  As an example of community life, may I recommend Village Day next Saturday afternoon.  As usual, I will be helping on the North Mymms Green Belt Soc stall and would be pleased to meet him, and everyone else of course.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bobb on June 11, 2007, 03:03:09 pm
I'm looking forward to the Village day - I missed the last one so this will be my first.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mark_Eric on June 22, 2007, 09:36:38 am
   Has anybody noticed that the house on the corner of Peplins Way near to the back entrance of the school has had its back garden divided into two by a six foot fence? And that although there have been
no plans submitted for a house on the newly created plot( I know the owners of the adjoining house)  the kerb has been dropped by the council fronting on to the new plot. Which is ridiculous, a dropped kerb leading to a fence!? Today, there are builders on the plot doing work. Still no plans have been submitted.
   This is as worrying as the building of flats in B.P. If a house is allowed to be built on this small plot, then there is no reason that it couldn't happen on both sides of the road on every corner plot in Brookmans Park. The profits would be considerable for the developer, but it would spoil the look and feel of the roads. And would be particularly annoying for the people adjoining the plots of land.
   It would be particularly annoying in Peplins Way, as there would be reduced parking spaces at school time, in a road that needs more spaces.
   I went on holiday to New Zealand a couple of years ago, and this selling off of your back garden, is really big over there.  The results are a mix and match of houses with hardly any back garden. I hoped we would not go down that road over here.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on June 22, 2007, 10:33:41 am
It does seem odd that a house could be built there - the plot would be very small.

The Welwyn Hatfield planning website does have an application for a side extension for 46 Peplins Way (https://fastweb.welhat.gov.uk/detail.asp?AltRef=S6/2007/0680/FP&ApplicationNumber=&AddressPrefix=46+peplins+way&submit1=Go)
is it possible that the garage is being rebuilt in the back garden ?

A few years ago a house was built on Bluebridge Road in the back garden of the first house (or two) of Moffats Lane, although I imagine the gardens are bigger than Peplins.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sherlock1a on June 22, 2007, 11:45:32 am
My understanding is that the kerbing was dropped by the council earlier this week, with 'permission' from St Albans council, not Welwyn Hatfield. Hmmm... I wonder what's going on...
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mark_Eric on June 22, 2007, 01:42:51 pm
How can a different council give permission to drop a kerb in a different area? Very Strange.
I have heard that the person who owns the plot has made an attempt to purchase part of his next door neighbours garden, which would probably make the plot larger enough to squeeze on a house, but the neighbour declined.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 23, 2007, 11:08:12 am
The parish council have objected to the planned flats at the end of Bluebridge Road. The decision will be taken by the planning commitee at WHBC rather than just a planning officer. People on the council who know a lot more about this subject than I suspect the application will be passed.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Laurel on June 29, 2007, 11:24:40 am
Hi Guys,

Did someone from this site email me all about this? I remember getting an email, but can't now find it on the system for the life of me.

Anyway, if there's anything I can do to help promote a campaign of yours, let me know. I don't think that will do any harm/encourage developers.

Thanks

Laurel  ;)

P.S. My email address is laurel.smithson@whtimes.co.uk
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on July 23, 2007, 11:36:32 am
The application for 5 flats at 58 Bluebridge Rd has been refused as being out of character with the street scene, disturbance to next door due to traffic using the side access drive to get to the rear car park, and the car park at the front could harm a tree covered by a Tree Preservation Order.

Mark Eric and others were puzzled as to how St Albans Council could approve the dropped kerb.  Having thought a bit more about it, I suspect it was the St Albans office of Herts Highways that gave approval and carried out the work, not St Albans Council.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 27, 2007, 04:31:42 am
Pleasantly surprised that the flats at 58 Bluebridge were not allowed. It is also worth pointing out that the proposed block of flats in place of the cottages at Dellsome Lane in Welham Green has also been rejected. this even though the parish council did not feel able to object. This I think shows the Borough Council taking a balanced view of each decision as it comes along. Flats are not automatically accepted or rejected.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on July 27, 2007, 10:48:19 am
Peter was partially correct about the proposed flats at 6-8 Dellsome Lane, Welham Green.  The Parish Council did not object but commented that the close proximity to a major road junction could cause enormous problems.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sterling on August 22, 2007, 05:55:20 pm
This is not to do with the present discussions but it is a related matter.  Seemingly, there are rumours rife at BP that the URC Church on Bluebridge Road is the target for the next lot of development/flats!  The story goes that applications have been made to pull it down and erect a multi-occupation building in its place.  I can name the people who told me about this but that would be very unfair because they told me in genuine concern for our community.
When I heard about it, I called Irene Dean, one of the three WHBC Councillors for BP.  She immediately called the Council Planning Dept and was able to obtain the word that, on the best available information, there is no application extant for such a development.  The URC Minister has  also expressed his concern at the rumours, and he has no knowledge of any such intention from the Church, either.
If you hear the story on the street and if anyone has any other versions pertaining to the URC on Bluebridge Road, please call me on 647878.
 
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 28, 2007, 10:26:24 am
I was looking at the new set of flats nearing completion facing the UR Church on Bluebridge Road. I think they look nice and fit into the look and feel of the road. I'm not advocating the wholesale building of flats in the village, but I think BP could tolerate a few more blocks done well.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on October 28, 2007, 11:04:45 am
I'd agree with that.

The new block which I think is an attractive building very much in keeping with it's surroundings, especially with the houses on the other side of Bluebridge Road, has replaced a bland, unattractive house that evidently struggled to find interest with anyone wanting to buy it to live in.

The only issue is with higher density development is the increase in traffic, if every house redeveloped is replaced with, say, four or more flats, it won't take long before traffic becomes a problem.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mark_Eric on October 29, 2007, 01:04:38 pm
Personally, I always prefer a smaller unattractive building than a more attractive square box filling a plot and I would have thought the neighbours would as well. It looks less claustrophobic. Which is the problem with a lot of the new houses that are being built to replace older ones.

The problem is, John and Sasquartch, the developers will not stop at a point when an already congested village becomes more congested or when villagers think a few more blocks have been built well.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 29, 2007, 03:22:28 pm
John and Sasquartch,
I think if you had this large overpowering building on the other side of your fence and the additional four families moving in, you may have a different opinion. But hey ho the gypsy site in Bulls Lane is a bigger issue right now.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mermaid on October 29, 2007, 04:13:41 pm
I agree with Colin here. The flats on Oaklands may look 'quite nice', but the overall block is very large and overpowers the house next door. I would find it quite intimidating to live next door to such a building and my sympathies are with the neighbours who didn't choose the situation they now find themselves in. Most of their garden is now overlooked and the sun will be blocked out of the garden for a lot of the day, particularly in the autumn/winter when the sun is low.

But still, the people involved in the development of the site will have made themselves a tidy sum, so that's OK then isn't it ...........
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: sasquartch on October 29, 2007, 04:49:28 pm
Did the owner of the house next door who is now overlooked and in shade object to the plans ?

I thought that things like this were supposed to be taken into consideration by the planners. One of the reasons for the refusal of the house in Peplins Way was that it too closely overlooked an adjoining property
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 29, 2007, 06:10:29 pm
Sasquartch

Yes, I believe they did object, but the developers kept submitting new plans, over a long period of time.

The reason I am interested in this subject is that I live in The Gardens and a similar development is proposed there... See “Yet another block of 4 flats -13 The Gardens” Forum. So my neighbours and myself have this to look forward to.   
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: John_fraser on October 29, 2007, 08:35:53 pm
I walked past it again tonight and I still like it. I don't know what effect it has on the neighbour, so I will keep my comments to what I can see.

Yes, the developer will probably make a tidy profit, but that's what they are developing buildings for. They also take the risk of a market fall, in which case they will make a large loss.

Yes, most (probably all) developers would build eighty story tower blocks on every plot in the South East if that would maximise their ROI. I didn't suggest they be given free reign, just that some sympathetically built blocks doesn't seem to bad.

No, the block does not fill the plot. It doesn't even come close to filling it.

No, I don't buy the idea that small unattractive building looks better than a larger attractive building.

No, Brookmans Park is not a time capsule. It will change.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Mark_Eric on October 29, 2007, 09:30:50 pm
I think the profits being made by the developers on the recently built blocks of flats are so great that even a large reduction in house prices would not leave the developers out of pocket

Obviously, an attractive building "looks" better than an unattractive one, whatever the size. My point is that when we are talking about those buildings being on a housing plot in Brookmans Park, I "prefer" the smaller building. (looks are not everything!) Especially if I lived next door.

As I said before, developers will not stop at "some" blocks. If the profits are there they will continue to build, regardless of effect on surroundings. A precedent has been set, by allowing some to be built.

Brookmans Park will change (as will a lot of south-east England) and I don't lose sleep over it. More flats and houses will be built and congestion will become worse. The increasing population and the Governments housing targets have seen to that. There is not a great deal that can be done, apart from objecting to certain building developments.
I just quite liked the Brookmans Park that I first came to 10 years ago. Even the smoky old pub! And I am not an old fart! I am 35 years old.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: colinr on October 29, 2007, 09:41:03 pm
John

You are correct Brookmans Park is not a time capsule and the environment will change.  I do agree with Mark_Eric's comments

But let’s take a step back in time. I used to live in Aldermans Hill on the Southgate, Palmers Green boarders. A pleasant main road, rather like The Ridgeway in Enfield was, with many medium to large family houses.

Over the years the developers have bought up the houses and turned them into mid sized blocks of flats. This has taken the soul out of the community with many residents renting the properties and not having the same values owners would. 

This could and possibly will happen to Brookmans Park over the next 10/15 years. I am not against development, however I think it should be done with thought and consultation of the community (not just the developer’s needs catered for).

Is the infrastructure in place to accommodated more families, more cars more refuse more policing, will the developers pay to renew the sewers or mains water supplies etc as the demand increases, or will it be down to existing residences to subsidise these facilities.

I know this issue will not go away and I am viewing it very one sided, but it is a real problem that has far reaching consequences for not only Brookmans Park but the whole of the Hertfordshire Green Belt.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: pinchefalise on November 08, 2007, 08:56:00 pm
The original plans for these flats clearly stated that there was room for seven (yes , seven) cars to be parked at the rear o f the block. Can anyone tell me what size these cars will have to be to get into the space as seen? ?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 08, 2007, 09:32:26 pm
Hi pinchefalise, welcome to the forum.

The original plans for these flats clearly stated that there was room for seven (yes , seven) cars to be parked at the rear o f the block. Can anyone tell me what size these cars will have to be to get into the space as seen? ?

Would seven of these fit?

(http://www.brookmans.com/bubblecar.jpg)

 :)

David
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 09, 2007, 11:01:36 am
Nothing to do with the 'flats' topic but Dave's picture of a BMW Isetta took me back to my first 'car' in the 1960's which was one of these three wheeled BMWs.  It had an aircooled 300cc single cylinder motor, effectively one half of their 600cc horizontally opposed motor cycle engine.  It could be driven on a motor cycle licence as long as it had no reverse gear (ha ha!).

Reverting back to the flats topic, and located down an access drive at the side of the barber's shop, the owner of a small office building at the rear of Bryan's Hardware, BP News etc was refused permission to convert the ground floor office to a work/live use.  The proposal included conversion of the existing garage at the side of that building into a patio area for the use of whoever worked and lived there.  The owner has now appealed against that decision and the consultant has gone to great lengths in justifying the removal of this parking facility.

The parish council has written to the Planning Inspectorate drawing attention to the increasing parking problem in the village centre and the need to retain as much off-street parking as possible.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 17, 2007, 10:53:11 am
The planning application for 5 flats at 58 Bluebridge Road is to be decided on Thursday 20th December at the Welwyn Hatfield planning control meeting. It starts at 7.30pm and will be in the main Council Chamber, Campus West, WGC (the building containing the skating rink and theatre/cinema).  The adjacent car park is free if you leave after 8.15pm

You can view the committee paper on http://coins.welhat.gov.uk/opendocument.asp?documentid=8678

The original application was refused and, according to the officers' report, this revised one has taken account of the reasons for the original rejection.  A condition says that the builders vehicles must not interfere with the use of the public highway.

Interestingly, for me at any rate, is that this application was 'called in' by Cllr Stephen Boulton who represents Brookmans Park on the council, presumably to ensure that it was decided by the councillors and not by planning officers acting under delegated powers.

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: southbury on December 18, 2007, 09:30:20 am
Sooner or later developers will see that there is no value in these projects . Family property in BP (homes with adequate parking and gardens) will not be immune but it will always have a bid ( because of the school , the station, our local amenities and the environment) .. but when the correction in house prices truely kicks in ( and it will ) it wil be over priced flats that will get hit the hardest.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: James Bentall on December 18, 2007, 10:58:20 am
I can't remember who told me this, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but someone did say that the flats at the end of Georges Wood Road were not selling at all well, with only one or two out of the 12 units sold so far. If that is correct, that would probably be the most effective way of stopping development if there is no demand....
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 18, 2007, 11:17:48 am
Second hand or third hand information is that four of the 12 Georges Wood flats have been sold and the others are being offered for rent.

I forgot to mention that I will speaking on behalf of the parish council at Thursday's planning meeting but fully expect the application to be approved.  I will speak about the speeding traffic on Bluebridge Rd, as proven by our WPC Jo, the closeness of the site to the official   ::)  change in speed limits, and the narrowness of the bridge. 

Unfortunately when Herts Highways don't object then the planning committee will be in a difficult position if they refuse on traffic grounds.  If refused on those grounds going against Herts Highways opinion, an appeal will be made and most likely won with costs awarded against the council (paid for by you and me!). 
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 21, 2007, 11:33:35 am
The 5 flats have been approved at 58 Bluebridge Road. 

The councillors on the planning committee were most unhappy about the 'flaternisation' of Brookmans Park but their hands were tied by government planning policies.  If this application had been refused, an appeal would most likely be upheld because government policies had not been adhered to.  Costs would most likely be awarded against the council because of this, which would cost us, the ratepayers, £20,000 or more.  That was what happened with the appeal against refusal of flats at 2 Georges Wood Road.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Iain on January 14, 2008, 03:05:37 pm
Every cloud has a silver lining ... with more traffic entering and leaving No 58, it may slow people down over Blue Bridge
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 04, 2010, 11:36:02 am
2 Georges Wood Road

A new planning application has just been made for 2 houses on this building site.  Currently there is permission for flats.  The application number is 2010/2297.
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Peter Hastings on November 04, 2010, 05:27:53 pm
Perhaps the market wouldnt stand so many flats at present?
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2010, 11:17:53 am
According to local police, multi-occupancy dwellings are causing local parking problems.

http://brookmansparknewsletter.posterous.com/flats-convertions-causing-local-parking-probl (http://brookmansparknewsletter.posterous.com/flats-convertions-causing-local-parking-probl)

Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: awill on November 16, 2010, 12:23:21 pm
They would appear to be causing spelling problems too....
Title: Re: Flats in Brookmans Park
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2010, 12:30:13 pm
Oops, thanks. 

 :-\