Brookmans Park Newsletter Community Discussion Forum

General Discussion Boards => Transport => Topic started by: John Fraser on January 31, 2002, 09:11:57 pm

Title: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John Fraser on January 31, 2002, 09:11:57 pm
How I wish speeding was not still a problem. Sadly as bad as ever along Bluebridge road, which is my main concern and experience as I live along it.

Recently I walked by son home from nursery for the first time and experienced the School run more closely then ever. I was appalled by the consideration shown to pedestrians by mothers driving their children home. Waiting to cross Brookmans Avenue at Bradmore Green - always difficult when you have a toddler on one hand and  a pre school on the other – three cars turned left in front of me – all mothers with children – and not one even looked at me, let alone saw me.

The biggest danger to children walking to school is cars driving other children to the same school. Given that most of the children going to Brookmans Park live in Brookmans or Whelam Green, why do so many children need to be driven?

Note from forum admin: This has only been edited because something went wrong with the title. Forum admin finger trouble to blame   :-[
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Paul_Tennant on February 07, 2002, 01:47:56 pm
John Fraser is absolutely correct. Laziness is the biggest factor. Exercise and a short walk to school would considerably reduce the amount of cars on the road. We must also remember some drivers drive so slow it frustrates other drivers into doing silly things. I recently followed a driver from Colney Heath to the village at 18mph in the centre of the road. This is clearly just as bad as speeding drivers.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Carolyn on March 21, 2002, 02:32:56 pm
Are the two wires across the road, just inside the village by the bridge, to record the speed of cars entering the village?

If so, congratulations to who ever manged to get this survey organised. How do we all get to hear of the results and what action will it lead to in terms of helping to slow traffic to the speed limit? (Assuming of course that it does show too many cars over the limit at that point on Bluebridge Road - little doubt in my mind)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on March 22, 2002, 07:42:32 pm
So should I speed up as I enter the village in order to encourage the council to force cars to slow down ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 22, 2002, 08:22:07 pm
Speed up? Too late, the wires have disappeared!

Whilst I am not a fan of speed humps, "white lined traffic calming chevrons" and rumble strips have a dramatic effect in reducing the speed of traffic and are relatively cheap.

These chevrons could be applied effectively in Bluebridge Rd before the bridge, in Station Rd between the bridge and the hotel and also by the fishmongers.

The rumble strips would be most effective before the bridge and would cause no noise nuisance there.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 23, 2002, 12:14:42 am
On the subject of speeding and bad driving.
I have had two near misses crossing the road betwen the alley way and the Brookmans ( No I hadn't had a drink)
In the first instance a driver ( okay female) cut across the service road from the main road to the station at high speed, she doesn't even know she just missed me.
In the second incidence a taxi driver (male) put his foot down when cutting through the slip road to the station when he saw me crossing, his gesture concerning my eyesight earned him a lecture on the highway code. He still thinks that pedestrians only have right of way on a crossing and that in any other situation they are fair game.  ???
It is a dangerous spot as traffic can come from six directions and by the time you have looked all round quite a time elapses. No problem for reasonable speed but fatal when driving fast just to get to a train thats going to be late anyway.
Any on else had near misses near this service road?
regards
you know who
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on March 23, 2002, 12:50:29 am
When I am working, I am looking out over the speed restriction measures on Dixons Hill Road in Welham Green. (Where the traffic from the station has to give way to traffic going the other way). To be honest, it is an accident waiting to happen. Actually, accidents HAVE happened there - so far this year, I've seen two occasions when cars have 'pranged' each other, and it is a very rare day indeed when I don't hear the squeal of brakes outside.

I wouldn't wish that sort of traffic calming on anyone!

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on March 23, 2002, 10:08:52 pm
Two cars pranged in Welham Green compared to a pedestrian nearly getting hit in Brookmans Park. Seems to me that the traffic measures work.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on March 28, 2002, 12:27:37 pm
Wow John your views are so one-sided.  Before you start no of course I don't want to see anyone injured in Brookmans Park. The fact remains that no-one has been and yet you still want a ton of cash to be spent disfiguring the village and inconveniencing everyone.
I would like to clarify your views on something. Are you really saying that actual accidents with damage to property and probably injury to the motorists involved is acceptable ?  Your moral argument - just to be really clear - is that it's OK for people to be involved in genuine recorded accidents provided some level of protection (not 100% protection of course) is provided against the "possibility" of accidents to other people??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 28, 2002, 01:48:50 pm
The reason we have not had any fatalities is one of logistics.
The fact is not many people walk in B.P.
My near misses may be explained by the fact that I do therefore I am more likely to be a victim.
We can all look the same way twice and get it wrong.
In both my near misses I was aware of what was going to happen, the drivers were not. If I had been elderly or poor sighted?
lets not all fall out,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on March 29, 2002, 01:18:57 am
A person’s views are, by definition, one sided; protection is never 100%; It can only be against a possibility and it protects the car driver too. Four people died in pileups today. Two appear to be speed related.

I don’t see why measures have to disfigure the village. A hump on the bride entering Bluebridge Road would work, not disfigure and may even improve the look of the road.

Taking James’s description of a “prang” does not tie in with “probably injury to the motorists.” And I believe the calming measure in question was put in after a child died.

Interestingly enough I went to the cinema tonight – only logged on to find out the ages of Brad Pitt & George Clooney to settle an argument – and there has a government add stating that cars were the biggest killer of children between 12 & 16.

P.S.

Apparently there's only 2 1/2 years difference! :-)

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 29, 2002, 06:59:07 pm
Hi Jet! What a small world it is, both of us being on the same forum!

I quote excerpts from your recent post -

"On the subject of speeding and bad driving.
I have had two near misses crossing the road between the alley way and the Brookmans.

In the first instance a driver ( okay female)…………….

…………driver (male) put his foot down when cutting through the slip road to the station when he saw me crossing, his gesture concerning my eyesight earned him a lecture on the Highway Code. He still thinks that pedestrians only have right of way on a crossing and that in any other situation they are fair game.    
It is a dangerous spot as traffic can come from six directions and by the time you have looked all round quite a time elapses. No problem for reasonable speed but fatal when driving fast………"


Let’s get a few facts straight about your post, our good humoured conversation and your lecture to me after your “near miss” the other day.

A – “driver (male) put his foot down” –

True. I put my foot down on the brake pedal to halt my vehicle. I did not accelerate towards you.

B – “when cutting through the slip road to the station” –

The road outside the shops is a two way road with no restrictions as to access. I usually take the second entry into Station Close but in this instance a car was waiting to turn right from Bradmore Green into Station Rd. My indicating a left turn and taking the first entry allowed the car to carry out its right hand turn without further any delay. This is the way I drive, reading situations and being courteous to other road users.

C - “his gesture concerning my eyesight” –

My gesture (pointing at my own eyes) was to notify you that you had not looked or performed any basic kerb drill, i.e. - looking left and right before stepping into the road from the pavement. I was not questioning the quality of your eyesight.

D - Quote - “I did not see you”

My reply - “That is quite obvious as you did not even look before you stepped into the road”

E – Quote – “I saw you coming down the road earlier and assumed you were going straight on”

My reply – “Never assume anything when crossing roads.”

F - “earned him a lecture on the highway code” –

Quote – “Don’t you know pedestrians have right of way on the road……..if you had run me over it would have been your fault………”

My reply – “I cannot see a Pelican or Zebra crossing anywhere around here. What makes you think that you can walk straight out into the road without looking and that if I run you over it is my fault? Please demonstrate this theory to me by waiting for a bus to come along the road and try walking out in front of it just like you have done here. I think you will find the end result is that you will be run over and killed”

G – “He still thinks that pedestrians only have right of way on a crossing and that in any other situation they are fair game.” –

I must be a failure at this form of hunting (even if I partake in it, which I do not) as in 26 years of driving I have never made contact with any pedestrian even when they have suddenly stepped out in the road in front of me.

I often stop to let any pedestrians, especially elderly people, people with children and prams or kids out on their own, to allow them to cross safely if there are  pedestrian crossings nearby.

I do not know of any part of the Highway Code which states that when pedestrians start to cross the road they have right of way over traffic, except on Pelican and Puffin crossings when the lights are at red. I pray that this you do not have any involvement in the teaching of children the Green Cross and Highway Codes. As a kid I was taught “Stop, Look and Listen, Wait Until Nothing Is Coming, Cross, Keep Looking”

H – “No problem for reasonable speed but fatal when driving fast…” –

My speed was about 10/15mph as I had just negotiated a sharp left and right hand turn 20m previously.

I – “In the first instance a driver (okay female)…”

This is a patronising sexist comment.

I know of and see whilst on the road many good female drivers. I also know of and also see many bad male and female drivers.  

J - I have had two near misses crossing the road…….

This was in no way near a near miss as I had noticed that you had not looked and was therefore already slowing down as you stepped out into the road 5 metres in front of me.

K – It is a dangerous spot and traffic can come from 6 directions….

By walking 20 yards towards the railway bridge before crossing, only two-way traffic would of been encountered. This is called elementary road sense.


Jet - As I say, our conversation and banter at the time was good humoured, yet your post portrays me as being a dangerously fast driver in the village. If this was true in this incident, unfortunately I would certainly have run you over given the 5m distance I had to stop in. As I was only doing about 15 mph, I would say that this was a safe speed to be proceeding in this situation and this was proved to be correct as no harm came to yourself.

If you ever see me driving my vehicle excessively fast or discourteously, please do not hesitate to post a report on this forum.

I am sad to read that you are making quite an exaggerated drama out of what was a very, very minor self inflicted incident.

Take care,

Regards,

Nightrider.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on March 29, 2002, 10:27:10 pm
“I do not know of any part of the Highway Code which states that when pedestrians start to cross the road they have right of way over traffic, except on Pelican and Puffin crossings when the lights are at red.”

http://www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/20.shtml#182

“turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning”

Although I could add that the Highway Code is not “Law,” it is a code.

Can't really comment on the rest, except to say that the "thinking" distance at 15mph is 4.5 meters (.3*the speed) so you would have done well to stop in 5 meters.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 29, 2002, 11:04:22 pm
John, read carefully what I stated -

"I do not know of any part of the Highway Code which states that when pedestrians start [/b] to cross the road they have right of way over traffic.....

John, you stated -

"turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road[/b] into which you are turning”

I am aware of this part of the Highway Code.
Little 4" square silver humps used to designate this at traffic light junctions, they don't seem to be replaced as roads are resurfaced etc.

Thinking distance? As I stated, I forsaw the situation and was already slowing down.



Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 30, 2002, 01:08:19 am
Dear Nightrider,
You miss the whole point, the spot is dangerous.
If there was no problem, why the silly gesture.
You cut through the service road which is there for access and parking not a short cut to the station!
I was polite because I was in slight shock, try being in front of a car dramatically lurching to an exagerated halt with an albeit slight skid rather than being behind the wheel in your car.
I crossed there to be as far away from the tee junction and bend as possible.
So you were looking at your speedo, saw me,  noted where I was looking all in 5 seconds? how clever.
I bracketed my sexist comments to show that they were not sexist, just stating a fact!
The whole point is that while looking in all directions in sequence one can make a mistake, a human error.
If we want to boast, 30 years driving, half a million miles,
no accidents, no convictions and not even a parking ticket.
Next time I see you I won't be in shock you arrogant person.
It might have been nothing to you but it bl**dy well frightened me.
Remember there was no pavement to step of from it is all road and verge, next time you are there get out of your car and stand where I was, you will have a different attitude after that I would think.
You don't get it do you, you either nearly knocked me down or there was no danger. In either instance your stupid gesture was uncalled for and one day will lead you into all sorts of problems if the wrong person is on the receiving end.
Our conversation was good humoured for one reason.
When I turned and walked towards you my first thought was to plant my fist into your grinning face, however being a civilised person I considered that as well as putting me in the wrong this would not help and that a chat would be of more use. If you remember my words were a little disjointed as quite frankly I was shaking from what I thought was a near miss
Lets be frank you just wanted me to jump out of your way.
Typical taxi driver who thinks he owns the road.
Thats a taxiest comment for you.
If I was in your position I would be ashamed of myself.
Stitch that jimmy
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 30, 2002, 02:47:50 am
Hi Jet,

Quote - The spot is dangerous.

A - That is why I was doing 15 mph approaching and entering the slip road.

Quote - You cut through the service road which is there for access and parking not a short cut to the station!

A - This is a complete falsehood. Please inform the local council to erect the appropriate road signs.

Quote - I was polite because I was in slight shock,

A - Would you not be of a polite disposition if not slightly shocked. By what you say you are not a polite person when "normal".

Quote - try being in front of a car dramatically lurching to an exagerated halt with an albeit slight skid rather than being behind the wheel in your car.

A - I did not skid.

Quote - So you were looking at your speedo and saw me, all in 5 seconds how clever.

A - I was in low to middish revs in second gear. After 26 years of driving I do not need to look at my speedo to know what general speed I am driving at. I can judge that from experience. I have negotiated the same route many times since you walked out in front of me and as a double check I have glanced at my speedo and every time a speed in the region of 15 mph is registered as I pass Unwins.

Quote - I bracketed my sexist comments to show that they were not sexist, just stating a fact!

A - So you admit they were sexist comments.

Quote - If we want to boast, 30 years driving, half a million miles, no accidents, no convictions and not even a parking ticket.

A - I am glad to hear this.

Quote - It might have been nothing to you but it bl**dy well frightened me.

A - I was not shaken up. I was in control of the situation.

Quote - Remember there was no pavement to step of from it is all road and verge, next time you are there get out of your car and stand where I was, you will have a different attitude after that I would think.

A - I'll inform the Council that the pavements have been stolen from Bradmore Green.

Quote - You don't get it do you, you either nearly knocked me down or there was no danger. In either instance your stupid gesture was uncalled for and one day will lead you into all sorts of problems if the wrong person is on the receiving end.

A - My gesture was friendly, as was our conversation after.

Quote - Lets be frank you just wanted me to jump out of your way.

A - I did not want you to walk out in front of me in the first place.

Quote - Typical taxi driver who thinks he owns the road.
Thats a taxiest comment for you.

A - You seem to categorise people. This IMO is not good practice.

Quote - If I was in your position I would be ashamed of myself.

A - I am not ashamed of myself.


Take care,

Cheers,

Nightrider.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on March 30, 2002, 08:53:42 am
I wonder whether it is worth moving this particular part of the discussion on speeding back to another thread in this forum about whether Brookmans Park needs designated crossing areas, zebra or pelican or whatever?

There is a good thread (click here) (http://www.brookmans.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=Traffic;action=display;num=1012433196) which seemed, at one point, to be reaching the conclusion that such a crossing or perhaps two such crossings would be a good idea?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 30, 2002, 10:08:46 pm
Dear Nightrider,
I note your comments, So I undertook a survey of the area.
The "slip road" consists of a double bend (chicane?) with a dog leg of straight 80 ft long.
It took me (timed) 3 seconds to look all around and walk 10 feet.
In that time at 15 mph you have travelled 66 ft, to stop takes a further 45 ft .
Therefore your upper estimate of speed is wrong and was probably slower.Probable 12.5 miles per hour.
You say between 10 and 15 miles per hour, do you not realise that your estimate after 26 years experience varies by 50 percent!
I have to look around 360 degrees you are looking straight ahead.
Because of parked cars you were on the wrong side of the road ( granted unavoidable) If a small person had stepped out from behind those cars you would not have been able to stop as you were apparently looking at me.
All this is happening in three seconds! you are in your cosy car.
I stopped and looked around because of the sound you made stopping which was a gritty skidding sound, why else would I turn around.
The sight of your gesture was annoying to say the least and in that short time, ( part of a second) I was angry as I thought  you were being rude.
You say you stop to let people cross the road, why then not just moderate your speed and let me go, why the theatrical stop and gesture?
I have no criminal convictions and have stopped more fights than you have had hot dinners. I can produce impecable references to my character. When someone gives you a sarky gesture do you not feel angry if only for a split second as I did. It is a normal human reaction which you would be aware of if you were qualified in human performance as I am.
Do you not see what you have done, if you had not have stopped you would have continued at 12.5 mph across the front of the blind service road to the back of the shops.
The result of a pedac to a driver can be no charge, driving dangerously, driving without due care and attention and god forbid causing death or manslaughter.
The penalaties can be nil rising to 10 years.
Notwithstanding that a friend of mine killed a pedestrian walking on the wrong side of the road at night on an
unlit road. The police tottally exonerated him, however he will never be the same man again.
The minimum damages for a victim who has no dependants is around £7K. Excluding any injuries.
Let us all be aware of the consequenses.
It would be nice if you said "sorry that I frightened you jet" But it takes a big man to say sorry, which is what I said to you when you led me to believe that you had nearly hit me.
Would you like to supply your full details and we will let the police, local authority and your employers decide on whether you have the temperement to do your job.
Brookmans has asked that this forum is not turned into a medium for personal vendettas and accordingly I will not comment further on this subject.
By the way the pavement, what there was of it ,was being repaired and could not be walked on. In any case there was no pavement only grass verge from where I stepped from. Go and look!
If you ever have to go to court I would advise that you take the fifth amendment, because you have written enough for a conviction. How does premeditated putting someone in fear of their life  sound?
Think about it and lets all learn.
My irony about sexist and taxiest behaviour was obviously lost on you.
The moral for the day is " when you have dug yourself into a hole stop digging"
As an aside I saw a small child run straight out of their house and across Bluebridge Road, without looking.
Cars travel at 70 mph down this road 210 ft total stopping distance. Thank God no cars were around.:(

jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 31, 2002, 12:43:41 am
Quote - The moral for the day is " when you have dug yourself into a hole stop digging"

My advice to you is to put your shovel back into the shed and stop digging.

I am not going to post any more on this topic.

Brookmans (David) has politely asked us both to keep our differences in opinion of the "near miss" off forum and for us to communicate via PMs.

You have not heeded his request.

By my posting this reply, neither have I, but this will be my final post on the matter.

Take care,

Regards,

Nightrider.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 31, 2002, 03:14:40 am
Dear Nightrider,
I will go against my post and post again.
I did not see Brookmans letter untill after I had written.
We are so much alike it is frightening.
would you like either a pint in the pub on a non driving day, a fight ( choose your weapons I am qualified in karate, fencing, shooting and tidddleywinks) on the green or a free aerobatics experience in the summer to test your bottle.
Go on lets be men and shake hands for the sake of road safety.
Would you have made that gesture in Tottenham High Road on a Saturday night? I know the answer!
No reg. details I see!
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on March 31, 2002, 06:25:57 am
Hi Jet,

I'll take you up on your offer of having a pint (or two) in the pub, (I interpret this as being The Brookmans).

We can PM and arrange details for a Meet.

However, I would not  like to participate in any form of fighting that you have suggested, as I am as good as a  Saudi pickpocket  at Tiddleywinks and my judo suit is in the wash. ;)

I agree with your proposal,  let's put this episode to good use. We can discuss the problems of cars speeding through the village and a few other relevant  topics and I am sure that positve results will result from our meeting together.

I'll PM you soon,

Take care,

Regards,

Nightrider.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 01, 2002, 01:59:06 am
I live on Bluebridge Road and feel too many cars travel down it at dangerous speeds.  I think something should be done before there is a fatality. Others feel the issue is “over stated”, point out that there is no record of a serious accident on the road and worry that any measures would detract from the look of the village.

Previously I suggested  traffic calming measure “sympathetic” to the look of the village – turning the bridge back into a humpback bridge and/or adding roundabouts to the end of The Gardens and Bluebridge Avenue.

So, should we have traffic calming measures on Bluebridge Road?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 01, 2002, 02:07:05 am
Now that the spat between Jet & Nightrider - hard to belive someone with that monica was doing under 20 :-) - has been put to bed, I've created a poll to ask if we should have traffic calming on Bluebridge Road.

http://www.brookmans.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.cgi?board=Traffic&action=display&num=1017611947
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on April 01, 2002, 03:39:25 am
It all depends on what  you mean by sympathetic !!

This poll is a great idea - I just hope enough people look at the site for the results to be useful.

Re the "sympathetic" issue it seems to me there are varying levels of possible action :
- nothing
- full-blown pure calming measures Eg one or more of rumble strips, road narrowing, chicanes, sleeping policemen
- full-blown sympathetic measures Eg re-humping the bridge (?) or adding roundabouts
- minor measures Eg speed camera

It would be better if folks could vote against the full range of possibilities (there may be a longer list than the above). At the moment I'm finding it tough to find an option I really want to vote for ....   ;)

It would also be interesting to have a vote on zebra crossings. Not sure if this should be separate or within this vote; possibly the latter because it would directly contribute to lower speeds?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on April 01, 2002, 03:54:20 am
I just wanted to comment on my previous post which is lost way up the chain somewhere now.

My point was and still is that it is not reasonable to put a different value on a motorists well-being vs a pedestrians well-being. The reasons being obvious I hope. The implications being that as soon as you or I get into a car our life suddenly has less value - which of course is patently rubbish.

I was and am saying nothing about whether any measures are or are not required. I am simply pointing out that if the chicane in Welham Green is causing car accidents then we are just trading one problem for another. It is well and good to say it was put there because a child was killed/injured but if the solution just takes away one problem to replace it with another then it isn't a proper solution.

Given that virtually all of the pedestrians of BP are also motorists then we are talking about the same people at all times anyway. We need a solution that fits all. Otherwise the next thing that happens is that people will be complaining about the noise of cars braking, cars in gardens, the amount of glass on the road etc etc

Anyway I drifted off the point there a bit. My key point is you can't put a different value on a motorists property and life than you do on a pedestrians. I accept totally that an accident is more likely to injure a pedestrian and therefore they need more protection. However this has to be balanced against the likelihood of an accident in each scenario. Also the fact that - whether we like it or not - roads are for cars and pavements are for pedestrians; it is impossible to protect against the danger of roads without actually shutting them completely !! Which is an option I suppose......

(Note from Brookmans:  A line at the end of this thread suggests it has been edited by me.  The content hasn't I just deleted a load of white space at the end to make the page look nicer  :)  )
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 01, 2002, 11:55:54 pm
Fair question! I probably should have given it more thought but it was late and I was a little drunk.

By “sympathetic” I mean things that would not detract from the visual appearance of the village. So I would not include:
- Speed cameras - which have to be obvious to work
- Humps – other than a hump back bridge
- Whelham Green style solutions
- Rubble strips

All of the above would be better than nothing, but I think we could do better:
- Build posts like those on Mymes Drive but position them to restrict the road a little
- Roundabouts
- hump back bridge
- Even the occasional police car parked on the road!

I'll give this until the weekend and maybe post another pole with a range of options.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 02, 2002, 12:18:38 am
I don’t put a greater value on a pedestrian’s life. That would clearly be stupid as well as hypocritical. But I don’t see how I can be accused of doing this.

What you say is true: In WG they have swapped one problem for another. Cars were travelling fast enough to cause fatal  accidents; Now they are being slowed down but in the process drivers are being aggravated enough to have low speed collisions i.e. we have swapped damage to life for damage to property. I am happy to accept that. It is a question of life verses property.

“Pavements are for people and roads are for cars” is clearly wrong. Firstly you won’t get far without crossing a road; secondly there have been two accidents on the road in the last year to my knowledge where a car has left the road – i.e. would have killed a pedestrian; thirdly why are so many cars parked on, and blocking, the pavement forcing pedestrians onto the road?

Although it is not possible to protect against every danger we can protect against some. If we take the view that keeping death and injury as low as reasonably possible is important, then I think we can – and should - do more. You seem to talk of a “balance” and finding “a solution that fits all” but have made no suggestions for any changes. Do you think the problem does not exist? Or do you have a constructive way to have safer roads without damage to the “environment” of the village or drivers?


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on April 02, 2002, 02:34:16 pm
To jet and nightrider

Thanks for a thoroughly entertaining series of posts regarding your recent 'near-miss'. We all enjoyed reading this at my workplace, Brookmans Park is gaining an image as the spiritual home of Victor Meldrew characters everywhere.

I can't help feeling that neither of you want to let the other have the last word... Hopefully you can put your differences to rest over a few beers.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on April 02, 2002, 02:43:50 pm
Given no accidents involving injury in BP to my knowledge (ie it is NOT an accident blackspot) then I am not prepared to accept that damage to property is an acceptable cost to provide partial protection against the "possibility" of injury to people. My view would be different if this was an accident blackspot.

Furthermore you are assuming that injury to motorists will not occur; also that consequent injury to pedestrians will not occur as a result of traffic control measures.

So what you really seem to be saying is that damage to property + probably minor injury to motorists + probably minor risk of injury to pedestrians is an acceptable cost to provide protection against the minor risk of probably major injury to a pedestrian. This also against the cost of any measures imposed plus the major likelihood of the village being disfigured + the minor risk of people being inconvenienced and/or upset by the other consequences of the measures imposed.

If that is what you are saying then I don't agree but I'm not sure it's useful to debate any longer.

You asked what my suggestions might be. The bottom line from my point of view is :
- I don't think this problem merits any action but I can see and accept that others would have a different view on this
- the reason why I don't think it merits action is because of the cost-benefit/risk argument above (ie not a blackspot, drawbacks outweigh benefits etc)
- I think there are other more pressing needs for the money; for example the state of the roads, particularly Bradmore Way, is appalling. Also the whole parking and circulation problem around the village centre which is actually one of the threads of John's problem satement and has nothing to do with speeding itself
- I think we could all find something that we didn't like about the environment we live in. If we act on everything then that environment will become regulated and oppressed to an unbearable degree. I'm not saying people should be allowed to whizz around the roads at will, just that we have to make reasoned cost-benefit decisions and in this case I think it's too much. I remember crossing far worse roads as a child and while this was probably too far the other way the fact is we took the necessary measures to proceed safely in the circumstances presented. Cars aren't flying off the roads in BP - far from it - and (light blue touch paper) the words mountain and molehill spring to mind. The only measure that is truly going to solve the problem really is pedestrianising the village - how far do we think we need to go !!??  ;D
- it's worth remembering that only a few folks submit thoughts to this page and it is merely a vehicle for sometimes vigorous debate between a handful of people who have the time. With regard to walking in the village - which is what this thread is really about (see below) - then most of the residents simply get on with it and you can see them everyday with their children etc happily making their way about without incident or remark
- it is interesting this thread is about speeding. It's just like the Govt approach : focus on speeding (which IS part of the issue of course) but completely ignore the equal if not greater problem of poor or careless driving. Point being that traffic control measures may not have as much of an impact as you would wish

OK now I've got that off my chest let me be constructive instead  ;)

Realistically there is a finite amount of cash available (if any...) and there is a finite amount of space. There are also various factors to take into account :
a) long straight run into village from S which acts to encourage speed
b) 90 degree bend into village from N which acts to discourage speed
c) not enough space for roundabout solution I suspect
d) unlikely to get more than one zebra put in
e) parking and manouvering problems
f) difficulty crossing road nr chip shop

Seems to me a set of small measures suitably spaced would be the most effective and acceptable.

So, maybe :
1) speed camera on S entrance by humpback bridge. Also re-hump the bridge if possible
2) zebra opposite fish shop (not fish and chip shop)

plus maybe  :
- another zebra opposite Windsors
or
- do something with the road layout Eg close short stretch of road Windsors sits on and widen road past Statons and library (this would provide a single village green, reduce confusion around fish and chip shop and allow pedestrians to proceed more safely as there would be continuous pavement around the whole new green. Or maybe someone can think of a better road layout?

My thinking with the above is that we could achieve a general sense of the need to proceed more carefully while at the same time giving other benefits eg zebra crossing but without the need for penalising existing considerate residents with draconian or unattractive measures.

(Note from Brookmans:  A line at the end of this thread suggests it has been edited by me.  The content hasn't I just deleted a load of white space at the end to make the page look nicer  :)  )
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: anna on April 02, 2002, 03:22:22 pm
Wow, what a great read all of this was. People who don't visit this forum do not know what they are missing. But above all, how great people can have their say and then shake hands and make up.  (I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you have your drink:)

I haven't really lived in the area long enough to know about all the speeding problems and as yet have not encountered any. However, the villiage it self can be a real nightmare, espeically around school drop off times.....cars are coming at all directions. Would be a possible good idea to make it one way?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Carolyn on April 02, 2002, 04:16:24 pm
Well said sasquartch.

MC - I like the idea of creating one larger village green. There have been previous comments about a one way system including all the way around the school. Maybe just the roads (excluding Bluebridge of course) that would suround the revised green should be one way. I'd suggest clockwise so when coming down Brookmans Ave cars have to go left - not a long detour if going to the school. There would not be a real need for the roads past the library and past Statons to be widened since cars would not be trying to pass each other.

Someone will complain about the loss of 4 or so parking spaces! I guess Windsors may expect to loose a little passing trade - but I doubt it.

Oh - while I'm messaging - one speed camera by the bridge.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 02, 2002, 04:21:50 pm
I waited two days and logged in with great trepidation!
I was pleased to see that our comments had been interpreted in the best way.
I should not have used the word fight and apologise, contest would have been a wiser choice of words as all the activities I mentioned are  non violent and involve no contact whatsoever. They do however teach discipline and the ability to quickly disipate violent reactions in real life. I have however read of some pretty viscious outcomes to tiddly winks contests.
Both myself and Nightrider are experienced drivers and are probably riding to a fall due to the inevitable fact that familiarity leads to contempt and that when it all goes wrong. After all air accidents always happen to high hours pilots. Novices are too afraid to make a mistake!
Our disscussions showed the two sides to what was a small incident, he had no idea at the offence I felt with the eye incident which goes back to schooldays and the fact that I wear spectacles. It is so easy to cause offence.
There is no answer to speeding, we all speed and as we are all aware it is inapropriate speed that harms.
I find it frustrating to have to walk around cars parked on the pavement but well what can you do?
As for a crossing, where would we put it? It can lead to a false sense of security. My father was knocked down on a crossing (mind you he was going between pubs) not that that should make any difference. For the record the driver got away with it, he had one eye and said that a bee had flown in through his window into his good eye. This was in November at 11 pm. Now we all know that bees hibernate and do not fly in the dark, but a jury all felt they did!
Well I have learnt something from this thread and I hope we all benifit.
I think I will make a few more comments now and try to be a bit more benign.
Thanks to Brookmans for letting us all ramble on.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 02, 2002, 04:41:51 pm
Note my comment in my diatribe with Nightrider when I mentioned the child running across Bluebridge last week.
Cars build up a considerable speed in both directions and it would be ideal if the road could be "broken up" in the middle.
The problem is who wants a crossing with lights or a chicane outside their property? The answer no one!
The only reasonable solution is self discipline backed up by the occasional camera blitz. As our Policeman says the culprits mostly live here.
A great big hump might help near the shops. Again would the noise "drive" people living above the shops crazy?
We all mean well, but I can't see it happening.
For once totally at a loss and having little opinion.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 02, 2002, 11:38:39 pm
In an effort to move the argument on, let me firstly dispel any misunderstanding. I do not consider a pedestrian’s life of any more value than a motorist’s. Nor do I think they have any extra right to protection, except where required due to their greater vulnerability.  The reason I dismissed the collisions in WG was due to the fact that no one has been hurt and, due to their low speed, it is unlikely anyone will be hurt.

Secondly I do not want to live in a village devoid of any danger and consequently any enjoyment. I do not feel that no monetary value can be placed upon saving a life. In a world of limited resources this is claptrap. An eight figure sum to save one life would be ridicules. Especially as could be better spent saving more lives elsewhere.

Lastly I agree that Bluebridge Road is not an accident black spot. However, I do see a potential danger that rises well above the “acceptable background” level. Although you rightly say that people should not be allowed to whizz around the roads at will, a lot do. Every day I see cars well over the speed limit, some appear to be doing over seventy upon entering and exiting the village.

In the last year at least two cars have been involved in accidents where they left the road. In both cases anyone standing in their paths would have been seriously injured if not killed. And although I can not, like James, say that I see prangs and hear screeches every day – as I’m not here all day – I do see too many to feel comfortable.

The level of danger is the only point we appear to disagree on, and I’m no happy to “wait and see” if the perceived danger is real. Nor are many of the people who live on the road. Although I admit the desire for traffic calming is in inverse proportion to the age of the children in the house.

On your suggestions:

I find that speed cameras don’t work. But in an effort to make them work you need to have a large sign, road markings and an ugly great camera. In all they look worse than the speed humps you so dislike, without being as effective.

I agree with Jet about the crossing. My wife was knocked down on a crossing and almost killed by a driver who decided to race the lights.

I very much like the idea of the larger green. It would be expensive, but give an asset to the village. However, it does nothing for the problem under discussion

BTW I suggest you re-read the first few posts in this thread. I don’t seem to be off topic.





Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: NMLHS on April 03, 2002, 01:58:04 am
The advantage of the chicane style is that emergency vehicles are able to nogotiate them more easily.  I would vote for this type of traffic calming.  However please let us not have offset roundabouts like those in Welham Green they do not have clear sightlines and vehicles have to pull out onto them before their drivers can see fully what is coming from the right.
The hump backed bridge and sleeping policemen are also dangerous and can cause damages to low suspensioned cars leading to litigation against the council installing them.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on April 04, 2002, 02:15:24 pm
John - just to say the a larger village green would help with part of your issues I think. You have concerns with the main road but also with navigating the village particularly crossing the 4-way intersect by the fish and chip shop. A single green would mean a pavement all the way along one side of the green so there'd be nothing to cross (in a way).
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Sciv on April 12, 2002, 01:01:49 am
Blue bridge road is long and straight so is it really a dangerous road?  I'd say you should be able to see cars coming at you, whatever the speed.

However, traffic islands would be the idea i'd go for, if you think its really necassary, as people can look right, cross to the middle and then look left, it slows the traffic to just below the speed limit but it doesn't bring traffic to a complete stop.

Also, (although i haven't seen them resently) don't the police already operate speed traps there? I know they used to.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 12, 2002, 11:44:42 am
Part of the issue is the long run from Hawkshead lane. Cars can legally hit high speeds and almost all are doing 40 or over the hit the residential section. Most are breaking, but some keep their speed up. Half way between Moffets lane and Bradmore Green is a bend gentle enough to be taken at speed, but long enough to make the road dangerous to cross if someone is travailing at high speed.

If every one was driving down the road at the speed limit the road would be fairly safe and the danger would only be from pedestrians not looking – sadly exactly what many young children fail to do. The danger is from cars travelling at excessive speeds.

I've never seen a police speed trap. Or a policeman for that matter.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 12, 2002, 02:55:23 pm
Quite correct John,
We had a speed trap severall times a week a few years ago now, it ran into hundreds!
Nearly all caught were local.
It would make a fortune now :(
Alas not enough cops :'(
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Nightrider on April 13, 2002, 01:19:27 am
I would like add a plus point to Jet's/myself's  involvement in this discussion.

I recently drove into Station Close (in the village) and noticed some very young kiddies playing and larking about on the grass verge.

Doublely aware of the recent posts between myself and Jet, I slowed down to a "Doublely Slow, Just In Case 3 - 5 mph" and lo and behold, one of the little blighters (no more than 5 years old)  tripped and fell off of the grass verge RIGHT in front of me.

It was so satisfying to me that so soon after the spat between myself and Jet, that I had slowed down my speed to an absolute minimum and that there was no chance that any harm could come to the kiddies.  

However, whilst parking my car, I witnessed cars passing the same kids at approx 20+ mph, albeit well within  the speed limit,  but with no chance of stopping if the same occurence had happened.

At the same time, it's a shame that the kiddies parents/guardians did not keep eye on their antics, considering the young ages of the kids involved.










Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 13, 2002, 02:17:14 am
Well said nightrider, it confirms one thing appropriate speed is more important than the speed limit.
A real example of what could hapen to any one of us.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 17, 2002, 04:03:13 pm
Dear all,
Its worth reading the highway code which is available on this site.
I find that things have changed some what since my older versions.
While in essence its all common sense. :)
I could find no reference to drivers giving way to pedestrians at all times as I remember? ???
Last night I saw two cars playing tag at very high speed going down Moffats, absolutley no chance of stopping as they went round the blind bend >:(
Have not seen a copper for weeks?
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on April 26, 2002, 05:48:16 pm
 To be honest, I think we can say women can't drive aswell as men. ;D Its a fact.  ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ellie on April 26, 2002, 08:19:14 pm
Quote
To be honest, I think we can say women can't drive aswell as men. ;D Its a fact.  ::)

I would be interested to see the statistics for this statement or is it simply a sexist comment? The evidence suggests it is not true.  That is why women can get cheaper car insurance than men and why there are separate insurance policies and companies for women. Believe me I work in the business.
Come on Mooniemad let's not trivialise the debate, we are talking about serious issues here.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 26, 2002, 08:38:04 pm
I don't know about cars but females make damn good pilots, comes from the free practise on the broomsticks,
Its a joke, please do not take offense, please do not have a go, sorry I said it now, still ;)
Just a male comment,
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on April 26, 2002, 10:04:16 pm
 To be honest wood, I was only jokin. The facts may show women as better drivers, but considering there are far more male drivers in the world, this factor may not be entirely true. I will now shut up as I can understand you. :-X Jet good joke  :D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on May 02, 2002, 09:47:00 pm
Speeding in Bluebridge Road - why do so many people do it? Our family's much loved young cat was killed last week by a hit and run driver - speeding of course. Not even the courtesy of stopping to see if there was anything to be done. Yes, cats run out in the road, but there is a decent chance of the driver stopping if they are only doing the 30mph that they SHOULD be doing. This maniac was doing at least 60 mph and my poor little daughter was looking out of the window and saw her pet killed. My 10 year old son also had a narrow escape down in the village trying to cross the road, and he's a sensible boy. I am truly sick and tired of the excuses some people make for not having traffice calming - "spoil the look of the village", "not enough money, and could be spent on other thing" etc etc. The ONLY thing that will stop these thoughtless, arrogant, selfish drivers who WILL NOT heed the speed limit is to put something in that will damage their goddam motorised ego-enhancers. I vote for the speed humps, all the way down Bluebridge Road - good enough for Brookmans Avenue, good enough for us! - and a safe crossing in the village for our youngsters and ALL of us.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on May 03, 2002, 12:36:18 am
I would just like to remind you that Brookmans Avenue is a private road and therefore is paid for by the people who live there. Hence the missing tarmac halfway down.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on May 03, 2002, 11:32:36 am
Quote
there is a decent chance of the driver stopping if they are only doing the 30mph that they SHOULD be doing.

Survival odds of being hit by a car go something like:
20mph 19 out of 20 pedestrians will survive
30mph 50 – 50
40mph 19 out of 20 pedestrians will be killed.
(These figures are quoted from memory, but I believe them to be the government’s accepted figures. )

So not only do cars travelling slower have more chance of avoiding an accident, the odds of the accident turning into a tragedy become drop.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 03, 2002, 05:32:08 pm
Well I shall be the lone voice speaking out for a considered approach as usual. Or maybe the Prince of Darkness depending on how you look at it.

I don't think speeding is the big deal a few people make it out to be. I'm on the record already about that so no surprises there. That said I see the concern and I recognise I don't live on a main road so perhaps some sort of considered and appropriate level of "control" is required.

More of that in a minute. I need to comment on Mermaids post first.

Firstly my truly honest sympathies regarding your cat. But, yes, cats do run out and I doubt whether even a driver going at 30mph could have stopped. Or they may have, depending on numerous other circumstances - Eg exactly when the cat ran out, whether the driver noticed it, whether the road was wet, state of their brakes etc. Such a person is not a hit and run driver - you make it sound like an assassination !

Maybe the person was speeding but like I say they could easily have killed it at 30mph too. I believe I am correct in saying (I think it's one of those cunning trick driving test questions actually) that it isn't a legal requirement to report death of a cat [although it is for a dog] and it is actually illegal or at least incorrect to just slam on the brakes if something runs out. The correct procedure being to look in the mirror first.

So let's not paint an emotive picture of the Essendon Cat Murderer zooming around the streets carrying out "hit and run" attacks on helpless family pets.

I'm going to agree there are drivers that are thoughtless, arrogant and selfish but I'd suggest it's not linked directly to speed. They are just like that anyway !

So the question becomes should we take extreme action because a cat got run over?

My question is where do you want to stop? Perhaps some additional measures if a hedgehog gets flattened or a fly smashed on a windscreen??

And I've just seen a post suggesting we should disable more roads; not just Bluebridge.

Shall we keep going? Let's do the whole thing properly shall we? I suggest we close Bradmore Way entirely and the whole village green just in case somebody is having a spot of bother getting where they want to go or believes that it is too difficult to look after their children properly.

I recognise that was inflammatory. But you see I'm "truly sick and tired" of people going on about this and implying that anybody who makes a contrary argument is an irresponsible idiot with no sense of the value of human life.

This forum is full of postings about alleged maniacs and nutters who are apparently recklessly endangering life every where they go. Well a few bits of shocking news. Firstly these are everyday people who believe they are driving safely; they are our neighbours or the guy round the corner. Secondly, again, they can't be very effective maniacs or we would have cars in gardens and regular visits from the paramedics.

But look, I'm not saying they are right. I'm just saying that we need rational arguments and we need proposals for measures that match the scope of the issue. It is not useful or impressive to dress the argument up with emotive phrasology that makes it sound like a massive death toll is only moments away.

The correct answer to all this is for people to be responsible. They are not. The next correct option is for the Police to arrest the people involved but, despite the huge Council Tax bills we have too few Police to even turn-up occasionally let alone undertake effective traffic policing.

Which leaves us with the old argument of should we inconvenience all of the population, spend limited public funds and disfigure the village with a possible impact on housing prices (I think these are all facts by the way) because of the "risk" of crossing the road.

Is it reasonable for the measures taken (and you can recognise there that I am talking about measures being taken - no "if") to inconvenience all of the law-abiding citizens of BP? Is it desirable for the whole place to look like a North London suburb rather than having the appealing country-esque appearance it has today?

The answer would - possibly - be yes if cars were careening off the road on a daily basis or if there had been any deaths or even injuries as a result of traffic or if we felt certain that more subtle methods would not work.

However, this is not an accident blackspot. Life is dangerous. You could have an accident anywhere. You take your own steps to ensure that you don't and quite rightly. It is not possible or reasonable for this action to extend so far that risk is eliminated. If it was we would have no roads at all and we would all sit at home wrapped in cotton wool.

So where does that leave us. Two things :
1) first of all can we all please recognise each others opinions and input as valid; whether we agree with it or not. Phrases such as "I am truly sick and tired of the excuses some people make for not having traffic calming " are an insult and not constructive
2) I thought the previous line of discussion on all this was excellent - it went along the lines of having some more minor measures at various locations on Bluebridge Road thereby reducing the opportunity to ever speed up.

With regard to 2) how about a crossing just before the village [perhaps opposite the church?] in order to a) let people cross and b) slow cars down anyway. And I think a genuinely active speed camera on the entrance route from Potters Bar.

There could also be a 2nd zebra crossing or whatever somewhere just down from the station to act as a deterrent at that end of the village.

Mark
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Astra on May 03, 2002, 05:57:22 pm
I have been driving now for nearly 30years and I have to admit I do break the speed limit but only on open roads with little chance of causing physical injury.  When I was taught to drive my instructor told me to be aware and try to anticipate problems so that I could act in advance rather than react in haste.  I was bought up in a town centre where nose to tail parking was a norm and children running out between parked cars, causing near misses, a daily event.  How we all survived I will never know.  

We all worry about our paintwork but can you possibly imagine how you would feel if you actually hit another human being with your car.  Perhaps we should all take a moment to think about that.

The majority of accidents are caused by speeding.  Whilst I think the speed limits in some areas are far too low, they are there for a reason.  They are there for the drivers safety as well as the pedestrians.

The only reason Bluebridge Road in Brookmans Park is not a black spot is the lack of people on foot.  We are a car driving lazy society who would drive 50 yards to get a loaf at the local shop rather than walk.  Our children are out of condition because they are taken to school by car, picked up by car, driven to their friends house by car etc etc.  They do not wear out coats or shoes, they grow out of them.  A policeman stopped me a few years back  for speeding in Bluebridge.  It was at 8.30 on a Sunday night in January and it was pouring with rain.  He gave me a ticket and tried to tell me that I might have hit a child running out in front of me and possibly killed it.  I told him that it was obvious that he did not live locally. No he lived in Borehamwood.  I explained to him that Brookmans Parks children do not walk anywhere let alone go out in the rain on a Sunday night in January.  He did agree with me.

I am not trying to excuse the fact that I was speeding.  Speeding is against the law.  I personally have reduced my speed through the village and have tried to be more aware but I can honestly say that the vast majority of the other residents in this village think that they are the law once they get behind the wheel of a car.  Generally the visitors to this village do not know the roads so well and tend to drive slower.  I also think it is about time that the use of non hands free mobile phones was banned in any vehicle.  I have had two near misses at the junction of Moffatts and Mymms by the same person totally losing control and overshooting the turn into Moffatts with one hand on the wheel, one hand on the gear lever and her head at a precarious angle with the phone propped to her ear.  She is not the only one.  I had a car with a male driver behind me in the village yesterday morning sending a text message while negotiating the bends on Moffatts.  I was keeping a close eye on him behind me as it would be my rear end damaged if I had to pull up fast.

I personally do not think that speed cameras will work.  Most of the residents would not feel the pinch if they were fined and the cameras do not reduce speed enough.  I do think that the flashing cameras in Goffs Oak are a good thing.  They do alert you that you are speeding rather than just catch you after the fact.  On the issue of speed humps,  I did hear that W&H council were not giving planning permission or installing any more humps in the borough.  I personnaly would not want one outside my house as they cause a dull thud every time someone goes over it.  The chicane in Welham Green does slow down the traffic but causes more near misses than I care to count.  I think we must face facts that it is the residents themselves that cause the problems and these are the people that need to change their ways.  Not an easy task.

As a last comment, hopefully somebody reading this long diatribe will look carefully at his/her driving and slow down.  We have had family pets killed - do we have to wait for a child or an adult to be killed before we take heed.

Astra
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 03, 2002, 06:57:49 pm
There is no excuse for running anything over, even a hedgehog. If you can't stop you are going to fast and thats all there is to it.
If someone hits you from behind well thats tough.
Please don't even think of looking in your mirror for an emergency stop.
Metal mends, flesh breaks and bends.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Carolyn on May 03, 2002, 07:50:16 pm
Hear Hear Astra (except on the seed camera issue)

Two postings in one day from me - a record to beat my monthly average! ;)

I am almost ashamed to admit that since becoming a regular reader of Forum I am even more aware of my speed entering the village from Potters Bar. I should have always reduced to 30 BEFORE the speed sign. Now I annoy numerous drivers behind me by braking well in advance and sticking religiously to 30 and flashing my lights at any car zooming away in front of me (which has on several occasions caused them to slow down).

Mermaid was perhaps a little strong, but I generally agree that a visual deterrent will help. Bluebridge Road is the only true through road and is the one of main concern, I still believe that speed cameras set at the entrance from Potters Bar will help – not eliminate speeding but help control it. Even if all it does is make cars reduce to 30 at that point, hopefully they will not be be as fast as before further into the village.

On the other point raised by Astra : It is not the cost that will eventually stop fast local drivers but the points on their licences. Even though they (we !) could afford taxis for the important journeys it is the lack of convenience that will hurt.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 03, 2002, 08:24:15 pm
Jet - I think you will find that you ARE supposed to look in the mirror before doing an emergency stop.

Certainly if it is "just" (sorry) an animal then you are supposed to prioritise other human lives above it.

Harsh but there you go. I think if you just slammed on the brakes to save a cat/squirrel/dog etc and the car behind ploughed into you you would be on very difficult ground. Careless driving probably.

Mark
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 03, 2002, 08:57:04 pm
The Highway Code is online and covers all issues including having to tell the police if you hit animals and the rules on emergency stops.  Click Here (http://www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/index.shtml)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on May 03, 2002, 09:24:57 pm
 Astra about what u said about kids being out of condition. As a kid, I myself am not out of condition. Infact I play football everyday and on saturdays I have been know to run to Old Owens and back to play football. You say about kids being driven everywhere. Well who are the stupid people that do the driving of the kids. I believe it to be the parents. So it must be the parents thought for them becoming unfit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ellie on May 03, 2002, 11:59:30 pm
I agree with those who feel that something needs to be done about the speeding on Bluebridge Road (and I don't live on Bluebridge).
Because of previous postings on this site I have been very careful to reduce my speed to 30 coming into the village and on more than one occasion some idiot (different idiots) have been stupid enough to overtake me and accelerate away! So if I was doing 30 what were they doing - probably 50 or 60.
I also know that various mums from the primary school are reluctant to let their children walk home because they have to cross Bluebridge Road (mine haven't had to and I have been happy to let mine walk home).
I would think either speed humps or a camera where the speed limit comes down would help.
As for the point about there not having been an accident yet surely it's an accident waiting to happen. It is not just kids I am concerned about but the elderly as well.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on May 04, 2002, 12:22:47 am
I know I've whinged on about this before, on the old Have Your Say board, but the speeding problem is not limited to Bluebridge Road.

Getting about a fair bit on foot and by bike I really notice the problem areas - notably, the bendy bit of Moffats Lane (which is unfortunately very narrow as well) and the entire length of Mymms Drive - particularly the eastern end where cars do their best to get onto two wheels as they turn in from GNR.

I suppose it's tempting to speed when there's nobody about, but with local families appearing to get younger I have noticed more children playing in the street than before, so the dangers are there.

At the risk of repeating myself I still think of Brookmans Avenue as the only road locally where you do not get any speeding, so the humps must be doing some good.

And as for the general attitude of motorists to cyclists, well that's another matter...........

ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 04, 2002, 01:49:02 am
A good driver knows what is happening behind them.
If you are travelling at an appropriate speed you will be able to safely stop for any reason.
Personally I would rather write my car off than kill something.
Keep appropriate distance behind me and you will stop as well.
Shall we all just agree to stop justifying bad driving.
We all make mistakes, lets just hope no one else has to pay for our faults.
There is a general lack of pride in everything, it seems that good driving is looked on by certain people as cissyish.
If anyone wants to see the end result of a road "accident"take a trip to the local mortuary, they will let you in if you ask nicely and let you have a look. It is the best of lessons I've done it :'(
Lets just stick together for the common good and stop trying to out do each other with smartness, and yes its something I must learn to do as well.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 25, 2003, 09:26:01 pm
Has anyone else experience being flashed by a vehicle behind for not breaking the speed limit? I was entering the village from Potters Bar this afternoon and slowed down to 30 mph at the Bluebridge Road bridge where the road enters Brookmans Park and the 30 mph speed limit.

A vehicle behind me appeared to accelerate as I reduced speed. The driver then continued to flash the headlights until I reached Moffats and turned right. The vehicle then accelerated and sped off into the village.

What made it worse is that I made the same trip two hours later to pick up a friend.  As I was telling him about it another vehicle sped up behind me and was so close that I could no longer see the headlights (it was dark).  And this was also on Bluebridge Road.

In my case such driving antics are counter productive, they just make me drive slower.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on January 25, 2003, 10:37:00 pm
Sad to say yes and pretty often, although I've not yet seen it on Bluebridge Road or even in this village. When it happens I too drive slower and I also make it impossible to overtake me - speeding up if required. I don't recommend anyone else doing this, but I'm a big bloke and - although I'm a fully paid up wimp - I can appear intimidating.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 26, 2003, 01:01:37 am
The problem is that modern cars need to be going at 37 ish MPH to hold top gear, this is made worse when going up hill as people do not like to slow down when going up hill as they loose momentum.
All this today ( and more)
I saw someone join a narrow road today from the right coming towards me. He drove towards me on the centre of the road with no room to go around him either way! Despite mud, rain and a slide I managed to stop, all because I was driving below the limit which was a good idea due to the conditions, well the wally just carried on around me at about 5 MPH he had not even seen me!
Later another driver came towards me on my side of the road and, in the same day another who wanted to cut across in front of me on a roundabout, too lazy to go around and get in the right lane, nearly wrote his car off over say 10 seconds.
I guess its just pretty crazy out there in the world!
Mind you sometimes the driver behind may have an emergency, ie going to hospital or vets, its better to let them past, its safer if they are up front.
There endeth the lesson,
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: anna on January 26, 2003, 04:58:53 am
Just a comment, but isn't this getting a bit like naming and shaming? Whilst I'm against excessive speeding, and have sadly lost a friend from the consequences.....I am not sure it's right to start describing people and cars on here?

When I recently put a post on here about a hit and run I wasn't allowed to put up a car description, but now it seems it's ok?  

I often have the opposite problem, I seem to get stuck behind cars on Brookmans Avenue, who go at 10mph the whole length, that can be just a dangerous.  

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 26, 2003, 09:50:43 am
Good point Anna, I have edited out any references in the posts that could possibly lead to false identification. I have also edited your post slightly because you repeated some of the elements which you had expressed concern about. In the earlier incident you referred to (which has since been deleted at your request), it was being suggested that more specific details such as the colour, make and part of the number plate of the vehicle involved should be posted on the site. You also mentioned the sex of the driver and that the incident, which you described as a 'hit and run', had been reported to the police. However, I agree, that for consistency reasons, it is better that no references be made at all. Thanks for pointing this out Anna.

On your point Jet, is it really true that modern vehicles can't do 30 mph in top gear going uphill? I suppose it depends a lot on the gradient. Even so, what is to stop them dropping down a gear?  
Quote
The problem is that modern cars need to be going at 37 ish MPH to hold top gear, this is made worse when going up hill as people do not like to slow down when going up hill as they loose momentum.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 26, 2003, 10:04:00 pm
First of all I gave a marque of car to demonstrate that someone was willing to smash up a very expensive car for the sake of 10 seconds, nothing more, not even near here.
Secondly of course people can change down but they don't, its as simple as that.
As usual I do nothing wrong but for some reason by making a comment I do  :-X
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Swan on January 27, 2003, 06:25:39 pm
I would like to personally thank Editor for re-opening this thread, giving me a chance to read the jousting session between Jet and Nightrider for the first time
;D

Do people have the impression that speeding is related to people 'Passing through' the village, or is it down to locals

Because the heavily edited phrase "Making ablutions on ones own doorstep" springs to mind
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 27, 2003, 07:12:51 pm
Dear swan,
as the local policeman said its mainly locals >:(
For the record, the joust between the writer and NR was deeply upsetting and ruined my Easter :(
I am not one however to be afraid to stand up to what I consider to be bullyng >:(
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Swan on January 28, 2003, 10:51:37 am
Jet

Sorry to hear that, on both counts
It reads just as verbal sparring, I guess  text can lack the emotive quality of dialogue
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on February 12, 2003, 10:54:47 am
So... Herts CC are increasing the number of speed cameras. Would anyone object to there being one on Blue Bridge Road? Would certainly, I guess, be much more welcomed than a traffic calming measure. Maybe we should start a petition...

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 12, 2003, 11:13:58 am
Dear James,
hear, hear,
I put forward a speeding campaign for BBR to NMORA last year which was to put it kindly not adopted.
My observations are that the residents are the main culprits, I see the same cars tearing about most days and as for the sports car driver demonstrating his ability to make noise whilst missing every gear change last night my flabber is gasted. ( what a waste of machine)
Untill the worse happens nothing will happen.
I imagine there would not be one supporter for a speed camera amongst the residents of BBR.
My roads a dead end (in more ways than one) yet one still witness's residents travelling at up to 60 mph.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on February 12, 2003, 01:40:33 pm
Quote
I put forward a speeding campaign for BBR to NMORA last year which was to put it kindly not adopted.


Yes, but that involved traffic calming measures like speed humps IIRC - was wondering whether a speed camera would be more acceptable.

Quote

I imagine there would not be one supporter for a speed camera amongst the residents of BBR.


Why not?

Cheers,

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 12, 2003, 02:18:24 pm
Dear James,
I beg to differentiate ( and I don't mean maths ;).
My idea was open to all suggestions, speed humps being the last thing intended as they do not work.
Residents do not want any restrictions/camera as they do not want to be caught themselves.
Its all of course very cynical of me but :(
I would welcome plod doing the odd radar trap.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on February 12, 2003, 02:32:28 pm
You will have the same issue with the speed camera as arose during previous discussions about vehicle controls.

That issue is that it's all very well getting a petition together but how do you represent people who don't want the measure - whatever measure it is. If 200 people sign a petition it is not representative of the entire population of BP because by definition the other 3300 people haven't signed it. Therefore to make it democratic I would think at least 50% of the BP population must sign to say they want the traffic control measure.

Otherwise the will of the minority is being imposed on the majority.

For the record let me say I think a speed camera would be a good idea. This is consistent with what I've always said.

The reason traffic control measures did not progress any further before was not because the issue was unkindly treated Jet old chum :-)

I think almost everybody showed extreme patience. The problem was three-fold :

1) no-one had the time to really own it or progress it
2) we all knew the Council wouldn't do anything major
3) the discussion was focussed around traffic calming which both i) constitutes something "major" and ii) does not have universal support

Re 3) I for one loathe the idea and I've made no secret of it. However, thinking positively, if you want to get people to sign up for something and if you want to demonstrate that a change has widespread appeal then you have a much much better chance of doing that with a speed camera than you do with any other traffic controlling measure.

Also, equally importantly, those people who do not sign the petition will almost certainly have little problem living with the consequences of a speed camera. On the other hand I predict people would have major problems living with the consequences of traffic calming.

To conclude we are now back to where we were before except that hopefully this time there are 2 big differences :
a) people are focussed on something achievable and acceptable to the majority
b) there is a better chance of getting the work carried out because it is consistent with Council/Govt/Police policy

Of course that policy is to cane motorists at every oportunity whilst totally failing to maintain the common infrastructure that we have all paid for through various taxes. At the same time all motorists are tarred with the same "lowest common denominator" brush and thus all treated like complete mororns incapable of ever driving responsibly.  Which is of course why many roads have inappropriate control measures and why many interesting roads have been mucked up to remove even safe overtaking opportunites. It's part of the EU policy or removing fun and individualism..........

Had to have just a little rant.

Anyway, how will the petition be organised?

M
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on February 12, 2003, 06:21:42 pm
Hi,

Just a couple of points:

1.  JET, would this be the sportscar with the Formula 1 style transmission that sounds like a bag of nails has been tipped into the gearbox - if so, I've never seen him leave any parking space in the village at less than full throttle...

2.  The stumbling block to any camera is that the Government guidelines require (taken from the BP Forum article) 4 fatalities or 8 injuries to be put in place.  However perhaps with a petition this could be circumvented.

Another method to look into, that I have seen in wide use in Dorset, is where you have a camera that records speed and flashes up a 30 limit sign on an LCD board when the driver is exceeding the limit.  However it doesn't ticket the driver.  This method has apparently been sucessful at making people aware of their speed and has lowered average speeds through villages.

It would probably be cheaper to have a camera of this type and it would undoubtably cause less resistance to the speed-lowering problem.

Cheers,
Aidan
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob on February 12, 2003, 11:34:51 pm
Quote
Hi,



Another method to look into, that I have seen in wide use in Dorset, is where you have a camera that records speed and flashes up a 30 limit sign on an LCD board when the driver is exceeding the limit.  However it doesn't ticket the driver.  This method has apparently been sucessful at making people aware of their speed and has lowered average speeds through villages.

It would probably be cheaper to have a camera of this type and it would undoubtably cause less resistance to the speed-lowering problem.

Cheers,
Aidan

There are some like this in Goffs Oak.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on February 13, 2003, 10:39:18 am
A little off topic:

If you have a large tabby cat which went missing last night you may want to mail me. Not sure the range of a domestic cat, but this one was on Bluebridge Road.

If you have children who are fond of this cat, please mail me before talking to them.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on February 14, 2003, 02:52:58 pm
We've been having an "interesting" discussion with HCC ever since they installed the new "unrestricted" speed limit signs in Hawkshead Road RIGHT where for decades there's been the cattle-crossing point at Boltons Park Farm:  an increasingly hazardous point from the speedy-vehicles point-of-view, let alone any "udders".    The problem seems to be  (a) getting the problem recognised as an issue that shouldn't have to wait, let alone (b) any form of agreement to install warning signs, switch-able yellow hazard lights or anything else (and that starts with the expectation that we'd have to pay for such protection as well, despite ...)

Hhhhhmmmmm !


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: NMLHS on February 20, 2003, 10:44:56 pm
I was rather interested in the new cameras proposed by Herts council on the weblink provided.  I happen to work in Woolmer Green - I know its not Brookmans Park but the camera locations shown have been in operation for at least two years to my knowledge; possibley longer - so what is 'new'?  I did hear however that only one of them actually has film in it - by chance the one right outside the office!

What does seem unfair is when the speed limits are reduced without warning.  It seems that the Council does it and tells nobody in the hopes of catching a few unsuspecting drivers in order to get in some fines before too many people notice.  

I am increasingly of the opinion that we will soon see the man with the red flag walking infront of motor vehicles as they did 100 years ago. Let's face it the only safe speed is walking speed or even stay in doors and risk death or injury in the house.  Life is so fleeting.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on May 14, 2003, 04:22:48 pm
I noticed on the BBC Site that residents of a village in Sussex are so fed up with speeding that they have been given their own Speed Gun to try and catch speeding motorists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm

The interesting thing is that it doesn't appear to be a particular accident blackspot - a bit like Bluebridge Road isn't. Do people think this could work in Brookmans Park?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 14, 2003, 09:09:45 pm
I would think it's highly dangerous to encourage this sort of vigilante action.

The police seem to be literally encouraging people to take the law into their own hands.

You can imagine the arguments that will ensue. Quite apart from any retribution that might result for those holding the speed guns...or speeding for that matter.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 14, 2003, 09:37:18 pm
Quote
I would think it's highly dangerous to encourage this sort of vigilante action.
The police seem to be literally encouraging people to take the law into their own hands.

It can't be termed 'vigilante' action if it is endorsed and run by the police and if the volunteers are all trained by the police.
A vigilante is a member of a self-appointed group (which this is not), undertaking law enforcement (this is just monitoring speed - the police will press charges if appropriate), without legal authority (this has the authority of the police).
I personally think it is a great idea. It would be great if Herts police decided to run such a scheme in Brookmans Park.
David Brewer
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on May 14, 2003, 11:16:28 pm
I am halfway between MC and Ed on this one.  My first instinct was vigilante, but I can see that it is a possible good way of checking speeding that would help an undermanned police force.    My concerns would be that the volunteers were well screened by the police, and that the police prescribed times when the volunteers should be out checking speeding.  

If this were not the case, I can envisage a situation, if it is not regulated carefully, that a volunteer who perhaps did not particularly like someone, knew they speeded through the village and knew what time they were likely to be passing through, could clock that person at regular intervals, producing a high percentage return for that particular person/their car.

Cheers.
Mary
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 15, 2003, 11:00:44 am
This is about people who are not the police enforcing the law - or at least being highly involved in the process of enforcing the law. While that may not meet the pedantic definition of vigilante it is undeniably true that it involves non-police individuals in the process of law enforcement.

It would be very hard to stop it being abused and extremely likely to be something that generated tremendous ill-feeling.

At the same time I think we can all argue that we paid for a police force yet now the service has to be undertaken by citizens.  If a genuine problem can be defined then proper action should be taken.  If it can't then so be it. This is a half-way house with trouble written all over it.

It's a ridiculous idea. Like having volunteers driving ambulances - another  hair-brained scheme I read about the other day.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 15, 2003, 12:42:20 pm
Yet again we pay our tax and rates and are then encouraged to do the work ourselves.
The people speeding mostly live in the village and to be truthfull every one of us excedes the speed limit at one time or another. Pot calling the kettle black springs to mind.
Inapropriate speeding is now prevelant in this village.
This regime encourages the informer type society, they will be having people in peaked caps telling us where to park next.
regards,
jet
Nice to see this thread started again, all we need now is a comment from JF :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 15, 2003, 04:19:36 pm
Quote
to be truthfull every one of us excedes the speed limit at one time or another.

Not sure that is true Jet, I know many who slow down to observe the speed limit because they resepect the law and are aware of the dangers of driving too fast.

As for the use of the word 'vigilante'
Quote
While that may not meet the pedantic definition of vigilante it is undeniably true that it involves non-police individuals in the process of law enforcement.
if the word is not appropriate for describing the scheme then perhaps best not to use it in discussing the scheme.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Hampton_Wick on May 15, 2003, 05:20:36 pm
As someone who lives in Bluebridge Road, I have to say that if it acts as a deterrent and makes motorists slow down I would encourage it.

Quite often I wish I had my camcorder with me to capture motorists speeding past my door.

I would be happy to take my turn on the rota and stand outside with the radar thing if we could set it up.

I am frequently overtaken as I drive along Bluebridge Road at 30mph.  It scares me to death to imagine if my daughter ran out of the drive.  Or even if the other vehicle had a tyre blow out.

Leaving matters to the Police means that we have to wait until we have a serious accident before anything is done.  MC are you prepared to guarantee that it won't?

I think it's an accident waiting to happen.  I don't want it to happen to my family, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.  If this scheme is successful in Sussex I would be delighted to endorse it's use in Brookmans Park.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 15, 2003, 07:33:20 pm
Can anyone truthfully say that they have never exceeded a speed limit?
Think about it, has your eye been on the speedo at all times, is your speedo calibrated correctly?
Ipso Facto I rest my case.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 15, 2003, 08:07:23 pm
If a driver exceeds the speed limit s/he is breaking the law, either intentionally or accidently through not paying attention. Either way, safety is jeopardised if all the 'speed related to stopping' stats are to be believed.

Sadly the current system demands a serious accident takes place before measures are introduce on a particular road to slow down those who feel they have a right to drive too fast.

This scheme James posted about seems to me to be a great idea of helping enforce the laws which were introduced to protect people.

Here is the link again. Villagers get speed guns (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm).

Let's not forget what this is all about.  It is not about emotive words like 'vigilantes', but about a community of ordinary people working together with the police to try to prevent accidents.

It is about volunteers being supplied with devices which can record the registration numbers of speeding motorists. The details will then be passed to the police who will  send warning letters to drivers who exceed the 30 mph speed limit. Repeat offenders will then dealt with.

That suggests that not everyone who is caught as a result of this will get penalised, but the repeat offenders will be.  I can't see a problem with this.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 15, 2003, 08:48:53 pm
Yes of course its breaking the law, but laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
Surely speed prosecutions as a result of amatuers who will not be quallified to use this equipment will fail in court. Who is going to decide which speeders will get a warning or whatever.
We will have householders detaining burglars next and then where will we be, anarchy.
I see no reason though why volunteers could not hold a sign saying "slow down" of course if it distracted drivers they would be liable for the  consequential damage of their actions.
In other words if things don't change they will stay the same.
I don't know what thats got to do with it but I have excersised my democratic right to have an opinion. :)
regards,
Jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 15, 2003, 09:07:52 pm
Same old same old. Can you guarantee it will happen?

I refuse to get drawn into the accident waiting to happen argument again. It's the same as the traffic calming issue and speed cameras. The locations are supposed to be proven accident blackspots.  If that is not the case then that's that. There is no record of this in BP despite concerns we may all have at varying at levels.

Do you want a brick thru the window when someone finds out it was you with the camera? Not an offer by the way....I know who you are  :-)

But do you?

And vigilante is a relevant word Ed so I'm gonna use it. Censor my thread if you don't like it.

If you think it's not appropriate ask the guy who's serving time for shooting burglars in Norfolk. It obviously is NOT the same level of issue but it is the same concept.

I'm not posting on this again. Don't know why I started anyway.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on May 15, 2003, 09:18:43 pm
Well I posted because I am provocative :) :) :)
And you don't need to do anything to get a brick through the window in Blairs Regime.
TM in Norfolk was at the end of his tether and had been let down by the police, his actions with an illegally held shotgun were not rational, not that it would have been rational to use a legally held firearm in such a manner.
Whats that got to do with speeding, as MC says it is in fact everything to do with it.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 15, 2003, 09:31:50 pm
MC,
Of course you can use the word vigilante if that is your take on the situation, although it is not an accurate description of the people involved in the action I thought we were discussing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm

But you are spot on about the rules about traffic calming measures
Quote
The locations are supposed to be proven accident blackspots.  If that is not the case then that's that.

This is from the Herts Co Co website regarding speed cameras.
Quote
Criteria for New Sites
There are strict criteria regarding the use of cameras, including their siting and visibility. Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.
The criteria for mobile sites is for four personal injury collisions within a three year period, of which two are fatal and/or serious collisions on a section of road.
All new cameras are painted bright yellow to make them easily identifiable to drivers.


Here are the Herts Co Co guidelines in full
http://www.hertsdirect.org/hcc/environment/transman/rdsafety/safetycameras/

So the question is, if the rules mean there can't be traffic calming measures before an accident happens, and if the local residents are concerned about the possibility of an accident happening, why can't they help the police encourage motorists to slow down in an attempt to prevent that accident happening?  What else can they do?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Hampton_Wick on May 16, 2003, 12:27:38 pm
You only need look at the number of postings here to see that Speeding in BP and in particular Bluebridge Road is a problem.  As you leave the village behind you there's a nice straight run out to the countryside towards PB.  You can see clearly ahead and it's very tempting to put your foot down.

The fact is that it's illegal and it's dangerous, not only to our residents, but also for the motorists thenselves.  It's a residential area and people pull out of their driveways not expecting traffic to be travelling at high speeds and sometimes on the wrong side of the road!

There is probably an accident along Bluebridge Road every 2 or 3 months.  It's pure luck that nothing serious has happened.  

Personally I think that speeding through the village is a problem, and in my opinion, anything that can be done to reduce the speed of vehicles through our village should be seriously considered.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on May 16, 2003, 01:26:12 pm
i agree that people enter the village far too fast along Blue bridge rd however i agree with ATG that the most dangerous piece of road i have driven on is "the bendy bit" on Moffats where cars negotiate these bends far too fast and with the added problem of parked cars i am surprised that no one has ended up on the pavements there (maybe they have),or had a head on collis ???ions.

Has anyone got any suggestions how we can minimise this risk
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: anna on May 16, 2003, 06:03:49 pm
I haven't posted for ages but thought I'd put my two pennies worth in. Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem, except for the noise of speeding cars for the people who live in those Roads. Or perhaps less confident drivers.  The problems areas, and the places I've seen many accidents are: Around the village, only minor bumps but the road layout is terrible, and on the A1000, where there have been "major" accidents.

However, saying all of the above, if I was staying around here, I'd be far more concerned about the growing drug problem, than about speeding.  It's is know amongst most youngsters that they can get drugs in the gobians..........NOW THATS A WORRY!

If we starting getting members of the public with speed guns, this would be a worrying place to live. If we've got that to that stage then better to get a speed camera put up.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 16, 2003, 06:17:53 pm
Quote
If we starting getting members of the public with speed guns, this would be a worrying place to live. If we've got that to that stage then better to get a speed camera put up.

But Anna that is the problem. You can't get have speed cameras unless you qualify and as you can see from the quote from the Herts Co Co site below, a number of serious accident have to happen before a road like Bluebridge would even be considered for speed cameras.
Quote

Criteria for New Sites
There are strict criteria regarding the use of cameras, including their siting and visibility. Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.
The criteria for mobile sites is for four personal injury collisions within a three year period, of which two are fatal and/or serious collisions on a section of road.
All new cameras are painted bright yellow to make them easily identifiable to drivers.

And who would these 'less confident' drivers be?
Quote
perhaps mean there isn't really a problem, except for the noise of speeding cars for the people who live in those Roads. Or perhaps less confident drivers.

...I hope you don't mean those who observe the speed limit.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Susan on May 17, 2003, 12:56:11 am
With all this talk about accidents, please don't forget quality of life issues, too. I walk to nursery school with my two pre-school children. Those of you who drive should be pleased, as this means I don't clog up your road  :)

However, my walk is made so much more unpleasant by speeding. Car drivers seem to think that going at 35 mph or even 40 mph in a 30 limit is ok, because they know they won't be stopped for speeding. But when you are walking, there is a huge difference between cars passing you at 28 mph compared with 35 mph (and many cars go much faster). Does it make that much difference to your journey time?

I walk along Dixons Hill Road in Welham Green (four times a day in term time), so if any of you are driving through, I for one would be especially pleased if you stayed under the speed limit...  :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 21, 2003, 03:49:56 pm
Editor - fascinating that you have commented on many aspects of Anna's post except the truly telling sentence :

"Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem"

To which I'd have to add that if the criteria for applying speed cameras (which I remind you I am in support of) aren't met in Brookmans Park then perhaps it is time to recognise that impartial assessment of the situation also finds there to be no problem.

We are all well aware of the keeness of the authorities to apply cameras wherever they can in order to raise some more funds for the coffers. What does it tell you if they can't find a case in BP?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on May 21, 2003, 03:52:22 pm
The people in Brookmans Park couldn't afford to pay the fines :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on May 21, 2003, 04:26:42 pm
Driving thru the village yesterday coming from Hawkshead i noticed that on entry to the village i.e over the bridge that you naturally slow down any way especially as the road before Bluebridge goes into an incline so therefore having to keep your speed would take a conscious effort to push down on the accelarator further,and i actually feel that most people would not do this.
I am not sure whether a few ignorant people who may have done this have lead to this topic being blown out of proportion.
I still think pedestrians and cars a like are more at risk in moffatts lane  between Moffatts farm and the entrance to gobions especially as some people try to negotiate this narrow series of bends too fast especially as more often than not cars are parked on the road and its a blind spot
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 21, 2003, 06:12:29 pm
Quote
Editor - fascinating that you have commented on many aspects of Anna's post except the truly telling sentence :
"Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem"

I can't understand why you find this 'fascinating' MC, particularly as I did comment on this in a reply to a post of yours on page six of this thread ...

Quote
So the question is, if the rules mean there can't be traffic calming measures before an accident happens, and if the local residents are concerned about the possibility of an accident happening, why can't they help the police encourage motorists to slow down in an attempt to prevent that accident happening?  What else can they do?


... and again in another post on that same page. To repeat myself again would be boring.

David Brewer
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 21, 2003, 11:08:46 pm
or alternatively you could answer the question??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on May 21, 2003, 11:17:55 pm
I assume that a major accident is being defined as someone getting killed or injured. If so, then there have been none - to my knowledge – along Bluebridge Road. There have, however, been a number of accidents where vehicles have hit parked cars or mounted the pavement and hit lampposts. I have also seen cars, travelling too fast, clip and mount the pavement. Any and all of these could have resulted in fatalities. Only luck, or the odds, were on our side. Not something I feel happy to depend on.

Sadly cars do maintain too much of their speed entering the village. Partly because it is an unconscious effort to do so – i.e. drivers tend to maintain speed unless the deliberately change it – and partly because the road changes from sixty to thirty only a few feet from the first house. Many drivers do not even start to slow until they are near or actually on the bridge and they are travelling at over forty for a good length down the road. Most drivers continue at about forty for the rest of the road.

There is also the issue of the drivers accelerating out of the village. This can start before Bluebridge Avenue. I see a lot of this because of where I live and a small handful of drivers are in excess of sixty by the time the reach the bridge.

I agree that drivers go too fast around the bend in Moffet’s Lane, but it isn’t nearly as bad as Bluebridge Road. I doubt this bend could be taken at all if the car was travelling at over thirty and it is so obviously dangerous that drivers tend to be below this. If a car hits a pedestrian at 20mph, the pedestrian has a 95% chance of not receiving serious injury. At forty the odds are 95% that they will be seriously injured or killed. So yes it is dangerous, but I think the odds of a fatality are substantially lower.

The thing about Moffet’s Lane is that I don’t go along there that much. If the residents told me that they really believed that this bend was an serious accident waiting to happen, I’d be prepared to believe them. And I’d be prepared to have my driving limited to avoid this. I know of no-one on Bluebridge Road who doesn’t think our luck will run out. The families with children who live on this road who I have spoken to can see a fatality happening. Each family hopes they are wrong, but they pray it won’t be their child who is the one to trigger action.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 22, 2003, 12:59:55 am
Quote
or alternatively you could answer the question??


What question?


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: MC on May 22, 2003, 01:18:19 am
read my previous post.

This is my last post on this subject because if even Govt authorities with tons of money they want to spend won't put a speed camera in BP and they are supposed to be experts in their field then it tells us something about the pointlessness of the whole debate.

To close I support a speed camera anyway but since I'm the only one who ever gets pulled up for emotive language on this topic when everyone is dressing up their issues on a regular basis I really can't see the point of continuing. This was started by the DIY traffic cop debate which I don't support for loads of reasons.

There's also an odds on chance this will be my last post on the site as a whole. If anybody wants to know why you can write directly to me.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on May 22, 2003, 01:43:04 am
I can only find one question in the post your referred me to and that is ...
Quote
What does it tell you if they can't find a case in BP?

.. and of course the answer to that is in the criteria set by the authorities, which I think you are familiar with because it has been posted earlier in this thread.
Quote
Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.

So the answer to the question is that Bluebridge doesn't qualify because there haven't been eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four were fatal and/or serious collisions.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: roy on May 27, 2003, 01:21:33 am
 ???
Part of the problem of speeding though Brookmans Park lies in the inadequet bus service

My children try to get the bus at hawshead road but often the 610 does not turn up or the driver just waves as the bus is full up before it gets to the stop

The only way to get to Hatfield with any reliability is by car often driven by stress mothers getting calls from there equally stressed children at the bus stop after being waved at

More busses regularly on time or even a bigger bus at peak time would cut down this pointless traffic
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on June 18, 2003, 05:50:01 pm
Just on this thread,i'm sure there used to be a round mirror at the top of moffats,opposite the chapel near the farm house so as to see around that blind bend so drivers could slow down when they could see any oncoming traffic.
Can any one tell me what happened to this and how we could get another put up so that some drivers can use their common sense and slow down
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on July 22, 2003, 02:23:51 am
No matter what the council say, speeding is a problem in Brookmans Park and elswhere for the simple reason IT IS BREAKING THE LAW and what is the point of having laws to protect the inocent if nobody takes any notice, so for all the speeders STOP BREAKING THE LAW.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on January 25, 2004, 10:35:19 pm
On Friday there was a car crash on Bluebridge Road. This time a speeding car hit a car making a right turn into its drive. The speeding car was travelling in the same direction as the car turning right and not only had insufficient time to stop before hitting the other car, it hit with sufficient force to cause both cars to mount the and travel along it for 15 feet before demolishing a sturdy garden wall. Luckily there were no fatalities, although I believe the innocent (i.e. non speeding) driver received some minor injuries - I use the word “minor” reservedly as they are probably very painful.

I did not see the accident so I do not know the speed of the offending driver. But seeing where the accident occurred, the viewable distance and the fact he was unable to shed sufficient speed to stop or even reduce the impact to a less serious nature, I believe his speed was excessive for a residential road. Clearly, if anyone had been walking along this stretch of pavement at the time – as my wife and children along with many others do every day - they would have been killed. If the speeding driver had encountered someone crossing the road instead of a car turning, then there would have been a fatality. Indeed, the innocent driver was luck to escape with his life and without serious injury.

The reason I am putting this because when I walked down the road a few hours I noticed the damage to a neighbour’s wall, but never realised what a lucky escape the neighbour had had. All other evidence of the accident had been removed and I only found out the details from my wife who had walked down the road shortly afterwards, saw the cars and spoke to our neighbours. Further back in this thread Phil (I think) mentioned that a lamppost was demolished by a speeding car and about a speeding car hitting a parked car late at night. A couple of years ago I say a car hit a lamppost at Bradmore Green. Any of these accidents could have been fatal, but you would never of known about them unless you happened to see them or possibly pass by shortly afterwards.

It has been argued in this thread that there isn’t a problem with speeding because there have been no fatalities or serious injuries. It has also been argued that we have just been lucky and something should be done before our luck runs out. When accidents are cleared up so quickly either argument is flawed because most of us don’t know how often potentially fatal accidents happen. Therefore it though it might be useful to post details of any such accidents here so that a picture could emerge.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on January 25, 2004, 10:46:01 pm
Yes I agree. Several times when I have been driving to and from locations at various times I have noticed several accidents. However on all occassions I have expected to hear someone else having gossip about it, but on most occassions they are unknown.

To be honest the fact is the speeding is a problem and although there has yet to be an accident, why should we wait for one to occur.You didn't see Blair and Bush wait for the alleged Weapons of mass destruction to be used before they acted so why should we have to wait for an accident to occur in order for a solution to the speeding problem?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 26, 2004, 11:35:09 am
Last week ( at 5pm, dark ) I saw a driver overtake another car going up BBR towards the village. It was abreast the car entering the bend, accelerating hard at 60+. When it cleared the car ( out of my sight) it must have had to brake hard to enter the village at anything less than 50+
There was nothing this driver could have done to avoid a crash if anyone had been coming the other way, it was pure luck.
It is not unusual to witness such things.
There are many instances where drivers manouvre their cars to park in their drives when other cars only just manage to stop in time.
When some of us tried to organise a campaign in 2002, the support we got was nil.
It would seem that like most roads in BP the residents cannot be bothered to get together and petition the police.
regards,
jet
At the moment the fatalities are moggies, one day its going to be tragic.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 28, 2004, 12:14:02 am
I think we were also lucky that no pedestrians were hurt when two cars collided at the end of Moffats about six weeks ago. It happened just at the time children were walking to school and one car ended up embedded in a wall having mounted and crossed the pavement.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Largey on January 28, 2004, 12:27:56 am
There were two cars in the same position last week.... What happened there.. One of them was a BMW.... Anyone know..
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on January 28, 2004, 11:44:14 pm
I have been overtaken on Pine Grove at speeds in excess of 50 mph by vehicles leaving Chancellors during the school day and on Saturdays. A more recent hazard has been the arrival of several pupil drivers who use Pine Grove as a racetrack for showing off to their mates. I know its not the schools problem per se, but they are all representatives of the school. It can only be a matter of time before a school child or a resident gets hit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 28, 2004, 11:58:17 pm
Quote
A more recent hazard has been the arrival of several pupil drivers who use Pine Grove as a racetrack for showing off to their mates.
Perhaps there's a business opportunity at the bottom end of Moffats and Pine Grove for someone to park two mobile units offering brake pad replacements?
::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on January 29, 2004, 01:01:37 pm
I would have thought the business opportunity was for one of the private contractors that Hertfordshire Safety Camera Partnership use to take pictures of speeding motorists! Or some easy results for the local constabulary! I hope that one of the mobile camera units pays BP a visit soon. Suggestions for a suitably camouflaged spot between Chancellors and Moffats please! ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on January 29, 2004, 04:56:14 pm
if you look under the "boy racers "thread,i pulled this up months ago,however in the end the only thing these kids understood was a more direct action...consequently they all now know who i am and do not race around the green or outside the brookmans park hotel.
The police can't be every where all of the time and it does take the local people to stand up and say we don't want you doing this around here,but maybe not so politely......language they understand etc
I do not live near the green but was totally fed up with them all after they nearly ran over my wife and children.
I still these people around and now they wave and try to say hello.................which just goes to show that the only action that works is direct action...........and funnily enough they understood that.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on January 29, 2004, 06:24:04 pm
Shads, it's great you got a positive response - however a sad fact of life is that most people are simply too scared to confront groups of youths. In the past I've had words with troublemakers only to be told to f... off and mind my own business.
I completely agree that something should be done to stop speeders, 50mph+ along residential streets is simply not on. I for one would welcome a speed camera along Bluebridge road.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on January 29, 2004, 06:35:06 pm
i agree whole heartedly i just hate the fact that these people and is only about 8 of them are spoiling everyones enjoyment of the village.....and 90% of these people that also hang around on the green at night(obviously not in this weather) but it just annoys me.
As regarding the average non pubescent speeders i feel a camera would be a great deterent to these and also the "under 5's".
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on January 30, 2004, 06:17:03 pm
Confronting the individuals concerned can be a useful technique. During the last snow (Feb 03) I challenged a group of several teenagers who were snowballing drivers negotiating an ice covered Brookmans Avenue. Sounds innocuous until you are the driver. Suddenly several loud thumps on the windscreen - the loss of control could have been catastrophic or even lethal. They were not local and I escorted them to the station and saw them safely onto a train. But its more difficult when the problem is speeding. I'm not good at stopping drivers and some people would probably knock me over or assault me. No thanks! But the police could do it.
I don't think BP would qualify for a permanent camera and I think it would be unsightly - ahh the views down Moffats Lane, the serendipity of Brookmans Avenue!
But a few visits over say a 1 month period would have a significant effect. The impact of a few speeding tickets doled out within the village bounds would pay enormous dividends - word would be round the village faster than puma sighting. :o
How can we get a mobile camera unit to pay a visit? Can we ask via Neighbourhood Watch? As Hertfordshire Speed Camera Partnership is partly funded through the Magistrates Court Service, is there a friendly magistrate who could suggest something? Or does anyone else have any ideas? Lets clamp down on this before someone does get killed or seriously injured. :'( Its just not worth it.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on January 31, 2004, 11:01:44 am
I'm afraid speeding is rife all over the village, I live at the bottom of Calder Avenue and there is at least 6 cars who regularly speed up and down towards Woodlands and Shrublands. Two of them are 4 x 4's driven by women with children in the back. What a wonderful example is that to the children!!!!!!!! Perhaps I should take a note of their numbers and follow them home and try to shame them into behaving more responsibly. But am I brave enough! :(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 31, 2004, 02:56:43 pm
Yes Margaret, and one of the oblivious females in a huge vehicle named after an American Indian tribe put me off the road to avoid a collision a few months ago damaging a light which is beyond ecconomic repair.
Angry of Calder
regards,
jet
Also the mothers parked up at the end of Calder awaiting the school buses, leave their engines running.
It makes me fume as well, to think of the filth they are discharging into the adjacent gardens. Another offence that the police care not about. And another thing they leave their lights on dazzling motorists speeding up Moffats towards them. grrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 31, 2004, 09:58:21 pm
Dear Margaret,

We live around the corner from Calder (on GNR) but regularly walk by on our way to the woods, and are always noticing the speed with which people zoom along Mymms and Calder. They can't be people taking a short cut or they wouldn't be there, so must be locals.

I think it would be a good idea to get their numbers, take a walk around the local streets to get addresses, and then send an anonymous letter letting them know that they are causing concern. Might just work, but then again......


ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on February 02, 2004, 07:01:34 pm
I was out running last night at around 6pm. Several times as I circuited the out-skirts of the village I saw two teenagers in a Fiat Punto going at speeds of around 50-70 miles an hour. I saw them several times. As I turned for home (Bluebridge Aveneue) they did a hand-break turn in the entrance to the cul-de-sac and then headed back towards the village along Bluebridge Road....Five years ago while living in Enfield a sixteen year old school girl was killed 6feet in front of me by a Mercedes that mounted the pavement and drove over her. I survived by jumping over a retaining wall to avoid the car. Understandably I am acutely sensitive to 'children' speeding in cars to show off. When I got home I rang Potters Bar police station to report what I had seen in the hope that the Herts Police may have a car in the area to have a quiet word and point out a few home truths to the driver. I was left on hold for 17 minutes and then gave up.

David , would it be possible to raise this with the community policeman ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 02, 2004, 07:38:44 pm
Hi Southbury,

I could, but it would be far better if you were able to tell Vojislav Mihailovic about the incident youself having witnessed it.

You can reach the community police team on 01707-638112 during office hours.

I will e-mail him to tell him to look at your posting too.

Cheers

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on February 02, 2004, 08:19:07 pm
I see there are more digs at 4x4 drivers on this thread.  >:(   Do Jet and Margaret really believe that all 4x4 drivers speed more than drivers of 2 wheel drive drivers.    Naive at best.   A generality with no foundation at worst.

Speeding is illegal and dangerous whether you are drive a 2 wheel drive, a 4x4, or a vehicle that has the option of either mode.   :(

Jibes at the model of a car named after an American Indian is a bit too close to naming names - there are not that many of them in BP. :o

Mary
a driver of the one named after an American cowboy, that I have never had out of 2 wheel drive  ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 02, 2004, 11:08:00 pm
I agree. There are far too many digs at 4X4 drivers. It would be a great shame if this was a case of the green eyed yellow idol. >:( It really makes no difference to speeding: too fast is too fast and thats all there is to it.  :P
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on February 02, 2004, 11:15:44 pm
I must nail my colours to the mast and say that I do object to 4x4 vehicles, mainly because of the beforementioned driving habits such as excessive speed and the fact that most of them are just too big! But it may not be the driver's fault that they are driven too fast, just that they are so far off the ground that the sensation of speed is lessened, thus 50 feels like 30mph, etc. I well remember being frightened out of my life many moons ago when I first had a ride in one of the old style minis, with my "lower back" within about 4 inches of the road - it seemed like we were going at rocket speed when we were only going 20! And then think about how it feels on the train (not the Moorgate trains) when it seems to be crawling along, yet is overtaking everything on the nearby roads.

QED

ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 12:38:35 am
4WDS are inapropriate (on road) in this country, they are gas guzzling destroyers of our planet.
They tend to be driven in a bullying way and take up a lot of the road as the driver tends to think they are driving a tank.
Fine in the desert or off road and perhaps in the sub artic.
Why anyone needs such a beast of engineering over the top ness to take the brats to school or negotiate the North face of sainsburys car park is beyond me.
They are an inverted status symbol of the worse kind.
regards,
jet :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: toothfairy on February 03, 2004, 10:28:32 am
It wouldnt be so bad if there was some sort of training given to show people how to use them.  How many people that own these vehicles, know how to use the hi and low ratio's, and 4WD Gearbox effectively?

In the snow, you would be very surprised to see how many people i saw either wheelspinning their 4WD, or bombing around thinking that because its 4WD they are safe.  Remarkable, the false sense of security, and perceptions that people have.

Perhaps they should classify this under a different class on the driving lisence?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 03, 2004, 10:56:13 am
Maybe my eyes are deceiving me but I don't remember 'having a go' at 4 x4's, I just mentioned that two of the six (only a third) were 4 x 4's because they were driven at speed with children in the back. I feel it is important that people read these messages correctly before making remarks like being jeleous. I would not buy a 4x4 to drive around BP or any town because I think they are too big for the roads and the parking spaces and they are not economical. I personally don't care what anybody drives as long as they drive properly with safety and concern for other road users and pedestrians. I think once again the whole point has been missed that speeding is rife all over BP not just in the Bluebridge area and the danger is increased in an accident because of the size and weight of the car. As to the remarks about the name of the Indian car, again the whole point is that whoever is the driver might just be shamed into driving better if they realise it is them that the remark was made about. Perhaps some of the many 4 x 4 drivers could put in a thread about the joys of 4 x 4's and why they choose to buy one and what they would like done to stop speeding in BP by all speeders. In fact I am soon going to buy a new(ish) car, perhaps a thread on recomendations would be nice.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2004, 11:38:20 am
Quote
would it be possible to raise this with the community policeman ?

Hi Southbury,  Vojislav Mihailovic, the community police officer, responded to my e-mail in which I raised the issues you mentioned yesterday. He said he will keep an eye out for this vehicle in order to speak to the driver. He said he is also acutely aware of the speeding vehicles in the area and share everyones concerns. Vojislav said he signed the petition in respect of speeding vehicles in Bluebridge road and would happily do so again.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: anna on February 03, 2004, 12:21:01 pm
I have to agree with Mary here.....I'm fed up with being "labelled" a bad driver because I "like"  4 x 4. Why do we like them.....I'll tell you a few reasons why!
1) they have lots of space, if you have a large family or need to transport things in you're car, they are ideal!
2) They are very safe, after seeing my close friend die in a car accident because of a drunken driver, I am safe in the knowledge that if someone goes into me, my children and passengers are as safe as possible.
3) They give a wonderful view of the road as you're high up.
4) when road conditions are bad, snow, bad rain and flooding, they are the best cars to have!

Our children are not Brats, I object to that, we have to get from A to B, same as everyone else, and that is our chosen form of transport.

It is NOT the car that is being driven that is the problem, it's the DRIVER!  

I don't like motorbikes......perhaps that is because I've never been on one and don't understand the thrill, so I have no right to cast judgement.......

Discuss the real problems here rather than playground bickering. Because all it achieves in lessening the argument.

I know there are some who think having a go at 4 x 4 drivers is funny, but actually it's a form of prejudice. Say it enough and people start believing it.  

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 12:55:16 pm
The thing is that SOME 4WD owners do not see their antics from the perspective of lesser mortals.
Lets all drive them, lets all take up two parking spaces, lets all burn twice the fuel. IE Zaffira people carrier, lots of space and 40 to the gallon, against a Big Red Indian 4WD less than 20 to the gallon.
Far from prejudice its just an opinion.
They are fine ( like tanks ) in their environment.
Its their inefecient pollution of our world that causes some concern.
I think the biggest concern is the inability of people to respect the views and opinions of others.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Birch on February 03, 2004, 01:22:52 pm
Last couple of times, I've been to BP, one Land Rover parked a couple of foot off the kerb so that no-one could pass by, causing a blockage of cars trying to turn round the green (outside. Hollywood hair/estate agents).

Last week two land rovers parked on opposite each other across the road (outside library), so that no-one else could fit down the middle.

One 'bratty' kid (a teenager) left in back of another, absently dropping litter out of the window......

Birch
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on February 03, 2004, 01:56:30 pm
It's not true that 4X4's are safer in a crash !

Look at the NCAP ratings and you'll see you are actually better off in a car eg Renault Laguna
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 02:05:28 pm
i thought this thread was about speeding through the village and not about the pro's and cons of 4x4's.....afterall it is someones foot which applies pressure to the accelerator and not the car itself.Cars do not speed on their own
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: anna on February 03, 2004, 02:08:54 pm
Oh Shads, thank you!!! Common Sense at last!!!  :D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Simon_Barnes on February 03, 2004, 02:17:08 pm
Have we (as a village) considered asking for a pedestrian crossing by the green, or some form of chicane?  Short of taking it in turns to stand in the middle of the road to slow down passing traffic, I see little chance of educating those who pass through BP in a hurry to be somewhere else.     SB.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 02:24:51 pm
i think as has been proved in Welham Green that Chicacanes can cause more problems thn they solve,but on the topic of a pedestrian crossing, say on Bluebridge Road  possibly between Moffats and the green,i think this may work as a possible deterent to speeding drivers and also being a safe place to cross for people,parents with children on the school runs etc.......Might be worth further investigation
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on February 03, 2004, 02:30:33 pm
there was a thread on the idea of a crossing a while ago.

I think it would be a good idea.  As I vaguely remember saying last time, the flashing orange bollard would give me a target to aim for when staggering home after a long evening in the Brookmans...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 02:35:33 pm
i join you,as long as your buying.....then the compulsive 11 o clock Methi,and after that i doubt even a bright orange flashing beacon could show us the right way to go. ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 03, 2004, 02:55:43 pm
Its sounds as if a few facts need to go in to this debate. Speeding is dangerous - it threatens all our lives. End of story.
As for 4X4s there are a lot of inaccuracies in the statements preceding this post. 90% of all traffic pollution is produced by vehicles over 10 years old (Transport and Roads Research Laboratory report). Diesel fumes are associated with asthma as a result of particles called PM10s, but I don't see any complaints about diesels. Any vehicle can be driven or parked badly. I have seen my sister in law block 3 parking spaces in a PEugeot 206! Some feat! . Its complaints about ' inverted snobbery' and thats all it is.Beside why stop there? Smaller houses use less fuel to heat and domestic energy use is a far bigger contributor to global warming. So lets demolish the big houses and live in smaller ones! I can't see that happening in BP! Yes, 4X4s use more fuel than other vehicles but we live in a society where each of us has a choice as to what we drive. Belittling the choices of others is not a contribution to the speeding debate and isw at best intolerant and in the worsst case prejudice. Speeding affects us all no matter what we drive. The choice of vehicle is IRRELEVANT!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 03, 2004, 02:59:44 pm
Obviously Anna You still haven't read the posts properly,
NOBODY, has labelled 4 x4 drivers WHO SPEED any worse than any other driver WHO SPEEDS. I have re-read all the posts and cannot find anybody who said 4x4 drivers are bad!!!!!!! The only remarks are regarding the suitability of 4 x 4 in a small village and the fact that they are environmentaly bad news. There is very little point in having discussions with people who don't listen or in this case read. Everybody has their likes and dislikes regarding cars as in everything else (personally I rather fancy a Jaguar) but the environment and suitability of the roads, must be taken into account. As to being safer in 4 x 4's, I'm not sure if that is correct, you might be safer if a small car should hit you, but if you should be hit with something bigger I suspect it would be a case of the bigger they are the harder they fall. I'm sure surveys have been done on the safety aspect of all cars, probably by the Which Magazine. I suspect you just feel you are safer in a bigger car, as to the better view. Get on the bus!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 03, 2004, 03:04:56 pm
I think the remarks about 4 x 4's and the environment wasn't so much about pollution but about how much fuel they use, thereby deleting an already dwindling resource.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 03:59:06 pm
Precisely Margaret, people read what they want to read rather than that which is written.
My 15 year old lean burn engine has better C02 emmisions than its modern equivelant.
Diesel engines whilst having greater fuel efficiency pass out more particulate matter.
This needs greater filtration and converter utilisation which itself creates an environmental time bomb regarding the cost and disposal of the contaminated items.
The controls that these so called anti pollution devices require need are sophisticated electronics which  contain highly poisonous elements again needing wastfull disposal.
The corporations feast on the legislation requiring these controls and charge us all accordingly.
We now have cars which wear out discs faster than pads, again something that used to cost say £20 to replace now costs hundreds. Before any clever clogs say its down to asbestos controls it is still posible to make pads from safe materials rather than wear out discs, but hey thats too cheap and generates little tax.
The way forward is for communities to have schools close enough so that children can get to school easily and workers to work as close to home as practical. Again this is too easy as it cuts down on costs and subsequent taxes.
The government thrives on internal ineficiency and now makes sure that the inhabitants of the country work the same way.
What is sensible in the average travel into town of at least 3 hours per day, to do 8 hours attendance producing about 5 hours work.
The result more stress than ever.
So much for the leisure age we were promised in the 60s.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 04:04:57 pm
Margaret and Jet......i reckon you should set up another thread just on 4x4's because obviously this is a subject you both have strong views,whilst i myself are wanting to read about speeding drivers and how can try to stop these people before someone gets killed and not about peoples views on 4x4's
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on February 03, 2004, 04:32:39 pm
[chanting]

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, etc...

;)

[serious voice]

I still think the pedestrian crossing idea would be worth pursuing - and not just so I can get home quicker...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 04:43:03 pm
Threads naturally diversify or else they would run out of steam after a few posts.
Still with helpfull people like Aiden stirring it up and selling tickets. :) :) :) :)
I guess a crossing would cause someone to get knocked over and plenty of shunts. Crossings are dangerous places giving false security.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 04:51:41 pm
possibly,but if that was the case they would have surely been phased out years ago and then people would just step off the kerb and straight into the path of an on coming speeding motorist.At least with Pedestrian crossings you do have the warning beacons,which would hopefully allow drivers to slow down due to a forth coming hazard and be a warning to them.And it might even act  as a break in the Bluebridge race track.
As for a fight Aidan......................don't forget.....i know where you live ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on February 03, 2004, 04:57:09 pm
No direct wish to fight, I was just egging everyone else on into one big rumble - then as Jet correctly stated I'd sell tickets....

;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 05:05:29 pm
anyway talking of selling tickets i think you should try and arrange another "forum" evening at the "Brooky",bit tied up this week but will be available from then onwards(just to completely diversify from the original thread) ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 05:20:56 pm
The best reverse speed hump is the groove between Aidens abode and the BPH ;) ;)
Shads the way to discourage unwanted posts is not to rise to them and they go away.
Some people thrive on wind ups and the subtlety is thats it not allways the obvious person doing the winding. ???
As for another forum meet. it takes time to arrange the pole dancers and there was rather a lot of food left over last time :) :)
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 03, 2004, 05:40:00 pm
its not the food i'll be going for :D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 06:02:50 pm
Oh I see you will " only be here for the beer then" ;)

It must be boring in the world today, seems like everyone has been logging in at some time today.

4WDS 4WDS 4WDS 4WDS are great :D :D :D :D

regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 03, 2004, 06:39:49 pm
So how do we get the local constabulary to do something about speeding in the village?
Moaning about it is like being a eunch at an orgy - you can look and can comment but can't do much about! ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Simon_Barnes on February 03, 2004, 07:36:01 pm
That's easy, Agent Orange, you just have to find four volunteers (try Jet, Aiden etc...) who would be happy to martyr themselves in front of a brisk milk float or the school bus and hey presto, we'll be entitled to a free Gatso.  
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on February 03, 2004, 07:58:36 pm
To be honest, I'd prefer to martyr myself in a brisk orgy (although without the eunch bit), but I'm not sure that would help.

;D

will certainly organise another drink evening, maybe more than 3 will turn up this time (although as the other two will no doubt agree - quality not quantity was the order of the day last time...)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on February 03, 2004, 08:07:22 pm
Aidan

Keep June and/or July in mind for another meeting.  You will definitely get quantity and quality from me.    Not so sure about the orgy ;)
Mine's a pint of the black stuff.

Mary

P.S.  Wonder how long it would take me to drive my 4x4 from Abu Dhabi to BP sticking to the speed limit, of course.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Reginald on February 03, 2004, 08:38:14 pm
Count me in-subject to depth of snow as I dont want to get my 4x4 stuck or dirty!! ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: trinity on February 03, 2004, 09:59:34 pm
Quote

I still think the pedestrian crossing idea would be worth pursuing - and not just so I can get home quicker...


Indeed. Particularly walking the eldest to school in the morning - when it can be a royal pain crossing over toward the Brookmans. It may be a question of political intertia, but if we wanted to live by a motorway I'm sure we could get some houses built next to the A1.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: toothfairy on February 04, 2004, 10:03:33 am
Quote
Aidan

Keep June and/or July in mind for another meeting.  You will definitely get quantity and quality from me.    Not so sure about the orgy ;)
Mine's a pint of the black stuff.
quote]

WHOOP! WHOOP! Did someone say ORGY.....  I'll be there as of tomorrow.... see you all in june!!  I'll Start saving for a tank of gas in my 4X4....!! ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 04, 2004, 10:20:17 am
Shads
I'm afraid you are wrong, I have no strong feelings on 4x4's and only mentioned it originaly because being big they were the only ones I could see into when speeding up the road and noticed that they had young children in the back and thought that wasn't a good example to set. The other 4 cars being smaller makes it more difficult to see into so I couldn't tell wether they had children in the back or not. Also I'm sure there can't be that many 4 x4's driving up and down Calder Avenue heading for Woodland and Shrublands on a regular basis, so maybe they might read this and realise the speed that they are going and slow down. As to the other 4 regular speeders I haven't mentioned what cars they are as I'm not very up on being able to tell different cars apart when driven at speed past my house. But if I ever manage to figure it out I will certainly post the details here and hope that nobody thinks I then have something against that make of car.    Any other remarks I have made about 4x4's are just the fact that I think they are unsuitable cars to be driven round a small village.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shads on February 04, 2004, 11:12:03 am
Maybe we shud all get "Smart cars",and i must admit i'm not sure they can do over 30mph anyway. ;D
Margaret,i just thought we all might be getting a bit sidetracked,however i will rescind that thought and stand corrected.
However....i still think a crossing would not be such a bad thing...is it worth having a vote on this Forum...those for and those against.Possibly david might be able to arrange that for us
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 04, 2004, 11:15:59 am
Hi Shads,

You can set up a vote yourself if you like, or else I will do it for you.

Just go into the Road and Rail section of the forum, click on the option to Create Poll and enter the title for the vote, the question, and a list of options.

Just a tip. Write it out in rough first before cut and pasting it in, that way it is easier to see mistakes, the format for the boxed options is such that it is hard to see all you have written.

Perhaps the title should be 'Does Brookmans Park need a pedestrian crossing?'

If you get stuck, message me using the internal message system and I will do it for you.  But have a go yourself first.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 04, 2004, 11:21:53 am
Just to remind people, in light of the current debate on speeding on the site, there is a poll about what traffic calming measures would be appropriate for Bluebridge Road (just in case people had missed it because it had fallen to the bottom of the list). This debate widened to cover other roads in the area.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: toothfairy on February 04, 2004, 11:33:14 am
Quote
Maybe we shud all get "Smart cars",and i must admit i'm not sure they can do over 30mph anyway. ;D


Funny, but indeed they do.  I was in Calder Avenue one day in the summer, and saw a Smart Roadster come out of a driveway, tail end hanging out, straightening up, and disappearing into the sunset PDQ, Smokey and the Bandit Stylee.  This type of behaviour in a small village is irresponsible, and dangerous regardless of driver skills or capability.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 04, 2004, 02:23:57 pm
Sorry folks, but we are having technical problems with the polls on the site. It is preventing some from voting. We will try to fix it. If you want to vote, but can't, please try tomorrow when, hopefully, we might have got to the bottom of it. In the meantime please feel free to add your comments to the threads attached to the votes. (This message has been posted in both poll threads).
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 04, 2004, 03:05:39 pm
well I had no trouble voting, the computer would not dare refuse me
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on February 04, 2004, 03:18:15 pm
I do recall a mentally challenged hooligan tearing around the village in his roadster, showing off to his mate no doubt.
The idiot should be horsewhipped.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on February 04, 2004, 10:26:31 pm
This isn't speeding, but as someone has brought up Smarts.   They have a great wheeze here.  I and most other considerate motorists park at the side of the road and leave a gap between ourselves and the vehicle in front.  Along comes Smartie and backs rear end into the said gap.  Result:  No way that we can get out without the space to manouvre.
M
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on February 05, 2004, 12:04:45 am
Our family is desperate to have some 'calming' along Bluebridge Road. We have had 3 cats killed by speeding drivers in 4 years and have now had to give up trying to keep a cat as a pet. My 12 year-old son and 11 year-old daughter are too wary to walk down to the village along Bluebridge, having had scares in the past, and always use Oaklands. I have a home office which overlooks Bluebridge, and I can tell you that the majority of drivers coming into or out of the village are speeding - some of them are doing speeds in excess of 50mph! We don't think that it is acceptable that so many drivers do not heed the legal speed limit of 30mph, particularly through the centre of a village - it's not much to ask is it? We have not had any speed traps for a long time now, but again, from my vantage point, I can tell you that as soon as the officers had packed up and gone, the speeding started all over again!
We need something sensible, serious and permanent. Our friends in Brookmans Avenue say that they have been very pleased with their speed bumps, but perhaps the new breed of speed camera would be a more viable option given that it would generate welcome revenue for the police!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: trinity on February 05, 2004, 12:43:23 am
Whilst I'd be in favour of some things on Bluebridge road, I take the point about "sympathy".

So how about a bump, say, 30 yards before the bridge ?  Or an island round about the same place ?  A lot of the speeding probably comes from doing 50+ down the hill and just bleeding off speed as people enter the 30mph zone, rather than braking to 30. By slowing the traffic down before crossing the bridge, it would cut down on the "careless" speeding at least.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2004, 09:25:03 am
Quote
So how about a bump, say, 30 yards before the bridge ?  Or an island round about the same place ?

This sounds a sensible suggestion to me. What do people living near the spot think?

Would four small islands at the juntions of Bluebridge Road and The Gardens, Bluebridge Avenue, Moffats Lane, and by the URC help? I am talking about the islands that are small domed humps in the road, usually painted white. They would certainly help slow traffic down and could also assist people joining Bluebridge from the side roads during the busy times of the day. There could also be marked crossing points at each mini-roundabout helping solve another problem mentioned in another thread? Can anyone see any dangers or negatives from having them put in place.  
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: toothfairy on February 05, 2004, 09:30:35 am
Perhaps he/she drives a 4WD in the winter...... ::) ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2004, 10:24:19 am
(Note: This has been posted in a new thread, but repeated here because it is also relevant to this thread.)

People are probably already aware that you can report all traffic issues online to HCC. They have an online form system that will even pinpoint the area of road you are bothered about. You can even add forum threads on this site discussing the issue you are raising.

The area covers every traffic issue from speeding to signs, from pedestrian crossings to parking. It might be useful for people to use these forms as well as post to the forum and also perhaps suggest that the council keeps an eye on the views expressed in the threads.

Click here to reach the HCC Highways site. (http://www.hertsdirect.org/actweb/faultreporting/category1.cfm)

If people have time, it would also be interesting to hear from anyone who used these facillities and what response they had from the local authority.

(Note: This note is being posted in both the speeding and the pedestrian crossing threads because it is relevant to both and users might not read both.)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 05, 2004, 10:38:52 am
I'm afraid bumps only slow down small cars, larger cars and vans etc. just drive over them without slowing down. As is the case down Bishops drive in Hatfield near the University halls of residence. Then everybody would just buy bigger cars and cause more problems.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on February 05, 2004, 11:37:39 am
Hi Dave, I think that small roundabouts, or islands are a great idea, particularly in the places you mention. How do we set about looking into the feasibility of this?

Also, just to answer Trinity, in the main it is not drivers 'bleeding off speed' as they come over the Blue Bridge into the village, many drivers actually increase their speed just past this point to take advantage of the straight road. On numerous occasions I have been following a driver doing 40 - 45mph along the winding Hawkshead Road, only to see them accelerate away just over the bridge!

The problem is just the same going in the opposite direction. It is not drivers anticipating the higher speed limit after the bridge; they are speeding all the way from the centre of the village. I have suffered the worst abuse from drivers going in this direction - purely because I do 30mph. I have even been 'gated' twice!

Finally, just to be fair, I would like to give my heartfelt thanks to those kind, considerate drivers who do drive at 30mph through the village - take a bow you lovely people!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on February 05, 2004, 05:06:00 pm
Thank you Mermaid :D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2004, 06:43:26 pm
Quote
Hi Dave, I think that small roundabouts, or islands are a great idea, particularly in the places you mention. How do we set about looking into the feasibility of this?


Hi Mermaid,

I think the only thing individuals who use this site can do is to encourage the local county councillor to do something. Our local councillor is Bill Storey (conservative). You can mail him  Bill.Storey@hertscc.gov.uk and all his contact details are on this page. (http://www.hertscc.gov.uk/incpaper/Pages/Members/156.htm).

It would good to hear him express his views on this forum. I will mail him (again) inviting him to address local concerns, but I have mailed three times without any response so far, so don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on February 06, 2004, 11:24:17 pm
I think that a succession of flat top humps as have just been installed at Green Lanes, Hatfield Garden Village would do the job, everybody would avoid the place like the plague.

ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: supersonic on February 09, 2004, 12:24:36 am
Quote
I think the only thing individuals who use this site can do is to encourage the local county councillor to do something. Our local councillor is Bill Storey


Quote
It would good to hear him express his views on this forum. I will mail him (again) inviting him to address local concerns, but I have mailed three times without any response so far, so don't hold your breath.


Perhaps what's needed is to hit him where it hurts.....in the ballot box!!

If every user of the site were to email Mr Storey Bill.Storey@hertscc.gov.uk and mention that if he continues to ignore residents requests for him to support the community on this issue then he will likely find his votes going to someone else at the next election then I suspect a response from him would not be long in coming.

We have the power of democratic choice (or so I read in the 4x4 thread) so let's use it for the common good!!!

rgds,
supersonic
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on February 09, 2004, 12:55:59 pm
Saturday lunchtime, travelling along Bluebridge Road, towards Little Heath,  at about 30-35mph. Suprise, suprise, grey Mondeo overtakes,  speeding off at maybe 50mph. This was about opposite Bluebridge Avenue.

So yes, we do need traffic calming !
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 22, 2004, 07:21:31 pm
Mobile speed cameras could soon be used in an effort to prevent drivers speeding along Bluebridge Road. Police say there is sufficient justification to introduce cameras in order to enforce speed restrictions in the village.  More details. (http://www.brookmans.com/news/august04/speedcamera.shtml)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Reginald on September 06, 2004, 04:37:06 pm
Interesting riding through the village on Friday evening on my motor bike and keeping to the speed limit, only to watch the tractor and trailer load of bales pull away from me at a fair lick down Blubridge Road. I am sure he could have stopped quickly if a child had run out!!!!!! >:(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on September 07, 2004, 02:27:25 pm
The 'single lane' chicane as you enter Essondon seems to work very well in slowing down the traffic entering their village .. has this been considered as an option for slowing traffic as it speeds over the bridge on Bluebridge Road?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on September 07, 2004, 03:21:09 pm
Having lived opposite the single lane chicane in Welham Green on Dixons Hill Road before it was ripped out I for one would say anything but that! There were almost daily prangs there. About the only piece of traffic calming I've ever seen that probably increased the rate of accidents.

Does the one in Essendon work better because there's less traffic?

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: strata on September 14, 2004, 09:09:54 pm
Saw 3 police officers in Swanley Bar on Sunday 12th at 3 o'clockish with handheld speed camera. They were checking traffic along Hawkshed Road coming from Brookmans Park into Little Heath just after Folly Arch.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on September 15, 2004, 03:25:13 am
brilliant isn't it.  they have the camera 20 yards into the 30 zone, to catch drivers who haven't slowed down quick enough, instead of having the camera 300 yards further up the road to catch the people who habitually speed in that area.  Typical, and another reason people don't view this as anything but a cash gathering  exercise.

Why don't they just do this for the right reasons???!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

yours,
Aidan
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on September 18, 2004, 01:17:59 am
Well it's quite sad, I saw a local celebrity with a very noticeable personal plate speeding up Mymms Drive again this evening, must have been doing at least 45 or 50.  And this is the second time I have mentioned this driver on the forum on this same stretch of road.

I thought the idea of personal plates was that everyone knows who you are or can at least remember the number easily, therefore you drive extra carefully, but it doesn't appear to apply with all people it seems.............


ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Neville Hobbs on December 02, 2004, 04:06:47 pm
If traffic calming measures are to be taken, lets have some effective ones unlike Brookmans Avenue. The Walk Potters Bar is a good example and so is Green Lanes in Hatfield. These humps make drivers slow down and stay slow as the humps are not vicious at 30 and close enough together to make it sensible and comfortable to keep to 30 for the length of the road.
I think Brookmans Avenue would be a better and slower road with a change of hump.  :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Spurs fan on December 06, 2004, 02:35:17 pm
I have to agree with you there, Neville, living in Brookmans Avenue.

These humps are just a pain to drive over, the ones in The Walk are much better and surely better for the environment too?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sterling on December 08, 2004, 01:43:24 am
Sorry about this but it is a long time since I trawled the site.  The reason I decided to visit tonight was because I have witnessed, yet again, more speeding on the main road through the village from both directions and wondered what had been said already on the topic. I noticed a great deal has been said since John Fraser's original comment in 2002 and then a long break and now one more has appeared this very week.
In summary, there's no point badgering the District Councillors- roads are County Council business- and we would not get traffic calming unless and until there is (god forbid) an accident and even then there would be a huge hill to climb.
I think we can try for a better, more visible sign at each end of the main road (viz., Station Road and Bluebridge Road) and while that may not be one hundred percent effective, it will reduce the incidence of "speeders".
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: eric on December 08, 2004, 10:25:18 am
I wonder if the traffic-calming measures designed by the County and being put in in Hawkshead Lane might provide a useful local test bed ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mallow on December 10, 2004, 03:15:11 pm
The traffic calming on Hawkshead Lane is hardly noticeable - must we assume this is the finished article?
???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on December 13, 2004, 10:22:28 am
the works being installed are those SPECIFICALLY required by Herts County Council after their long and careful consideration ...

john f
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sterling on December 15, 2004, 02:54:49 am
Can we not get similar markings on Blue Bridge Road, as on Hawkshead Road, situated near the barely noticeable 30 mph sign?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: eric on December 21, 2004, 03:56:43 pm
Has anyone observed anyone paying any real notice to these red tarmac speed warnings ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on January 12, 2005, 05:21:08 pm
with regard to the new "traffic-calming measures" recently installed in Hawkshead Lane to the requirements of the local authorities  -   I'm slightly interested that not a single comment appears to have been proffered on this topic.
[Some might refer to the old adage that "silence is taken as assent ...]

jf (vc)

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mallow on January 13, 2005, 02:39:27 pm
John,

All the traffic calming seems to be on the level part of the lane near the RVC.  I thought there were originally some proposals to install something at the west end where the lane is partially single track.  Cars still travel in both directions at speed tooting at blind bends presumably in the hope that oncoming traffic will evaporate at the sound of their horn.

Regards.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Phil_Holm on January 14, 2005, 03:24:56 pm
when I enquired about traffic calming along Bluebridge Road I was told that there hadn't been enough bad or serious accidents along there.  I'd be interested to see how many bad / serious accidents happen along Hawkeshead by comparison.

Phil
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mallow on January 14, 2005, 03:47:08 pm
The traffic calming on Hawkshead Lane was a condition of the last lot of planning permission to be granted to the RVC.  The deal was that they would pay for a traffic calming scheme to cater for the extra traffic their extra facilities would create.  What has been installed is a lot less elaborate than the original proposed plan that I saw.

Regards.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on January 16, 2005, 12:08:28 am
Its great traffic calming - totally sympathetic to the landscape and the views the Green Belt Society try so hard to preserve! Massive flourescent yellow surrounds on 30 mph signs. A bump in the road or rumble strips would be more effective and less visually intrusive. Its a massive contribution to the area.
But the REALLY FUNNY thing is that if you go from RVC to the village, if you read the signs on the opposite side of the road that still face you, you can do 60mph for about 20 yards! What a brilliant piece of modern road engineering! A massive succes for Hertfordshire Highways and the planners!

Lets get Grant Shapps to kick butt at County Hall to come up with an intelligent solution, not cheap visually intrusive signage that messes up the landscape that we all love.
TTFN
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 16, 2005, 05:49:23 pm
I have to agree, what an eyesore.
Thing is that there are too many road signs for the motorists brain to comprehend anyway.
Probably why the majority don't seem to bother to read them.
We are all concentrating on long range Mk 1 eyeball detection of speed traps to bother with signs.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on January 17, 2005, 01:03:04 pm
Mallow -  re your post of 13th:   I know that ideas about the west end of the Lane have been talked about by different people for years.   But I'm not sure what proposals you might be referring to ?  
(I undertand some more signs etc are about to be agreed in relation to completing and operating the flood "alleviation" (diversion) scheme ?)

Phil -  re yours of the 14th:  does this mean you're expecting more accidents to take place ... ?  or ... ?

Mallow  -  re your post of the 14th:  the works required by the local authorities are related to the increasing totality of traffic using the Lane.   The proposals you saw were the ones required before the engineers started changing their minds in 2001/2 ... ?

Agent Orange -  yours are not the only such comments we have heard but we are not the experts who stipulated what was installed.   We understand that even if "humps" were acceptable, they would have to have warning signs ... and that in a non-lit road, reflectives come in to play ... etc etc
(I wonder who will pay for any further changes ...?

j

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Phil_Holm on January 17, 2005, 03:23:06 pm
Hi John,

No I don't expect more accidents to take place now.  It's just that in my opinion both areas needed something, and the arguement had been that it was not possible to do anything because of a lack of serious road accidents.

Having lived along Bluebridge Road for 5 years I was aware that there was a real potential for a serious accident.  My wife used to walk our daughters to school along that road, and it was one of the contributing factors to us moving house.

I am not aware of any serious accidents along Hawkeshead, but yet traffic calming has arrived in Hawkeshead.  

I was just curious as to why it was allowed in Hawkeshead and not in Bluebridge.

Phil
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on January 17, 2005, 04:51:45 pm
Hi Phil

Thanks for coming back:   I think it's more a case that the authorities saw an opportunity for someone else to pay for their aspirations of improving general road safety  -  ie  the Vet College in and for Hawkshead Lane whereas there's not been any similar one planning applicant in and for Bluebridge ...  
The ODPM is consulting on alternative ways of taxing planning applications  -   to pay for local environmental improvements that 20+ years ago were more part-and-parcel of what the rates paid for.   The interesting issue is as to (a) whether any/ every planning application (say for a house extension) should have an implementation charge put on it   and (b) improvements (chosen how ?) are then paid for out of that pot ?   That's in the same territory where many are aguing that simply surcharging a quota of affordable housing on a house builder merely makes him recoup that enforced loss by putting up the costs for everyone else ... (rather than out of his actual profits)   [ohoh !  I feel this thread beginning to grow and twist ... !]

bw  -  j
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: supersonic on January 18, 2005, 12:21:31 am
Quote
I have to agree, what an eyesore.

jet, I have to agree! The signs must be a real eyesore if you can see them from all the way over the sea in Eire........  :D


supersonic
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 18, 2005, 01:59:27 am
Ha ha ha,
Top o' the morning to ya Sid.
Good to see some humour big horror! ( be gorra )
BTW I have pleaded political asylum but it does not seem to be going down well with the Irish Government.
The point I was making was that increasing road signs, like increasing taxes are counter productive.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 23, 2005, 11:29:45 pm
Sorry for the bad news, but if you are missing a large ginger cat in the Bluebridge/Oaklands/Westland area of the village you will find it in the verge of Bruebridge Road near to the bridge. Presumably a casualty of the traffic. Has happened to us two years ago up at GNR so know how the owner must be feeling.

ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: hilarycarlen on January 25, 2005, 12:11:33 am
Thank you for letting us know about our cat, run over on Bluebridge Road.  We have buried him.  The second of our cats we have found run down and dead on that exact spot in 3 months.  

It is no comfort to think it could as easily be one of our kids, or someone else's kid.  

I wish they would put speed bumps in that road, because people use it as a motorway.  Nothing except a physical intervention will stop them.  Often i have driven down the hill towards the village at 30mph only to have a string of cars behind me almost on my bumper, evidently highly indignant that I was in their way, and stopping them from doing 75mph like they're used to.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on January 31, 2005, 04:31:44 pm
a quick note to report that after a further meeting with HCC some further tweaking of the signs, red tarmac, etc will be taking place ...

john f
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: eric on February 03, 2005, 02:29:41 pm
so john what is the latest story ?   Interesting collecxtion of bin bags as I drove by
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on February 04, 2005, 11:38:36 am
not much really:   the whole issue continues to grind towards a conclusion as to what HCC etc want and accept (as it has been doing for five years ... and despite some rather unnecessary "interventions" from a number of quarters ...)
I think the more interesting topic is as to what impact there will actually be on bringing down the speed of driving ...

bw  -  john
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: eric on February 11, 2005, 08:16:27 pm
so the bandwaggoning that's been going on was all unnecessary because things were already being sorted out anyway ?    and this BEFORE election-fever takes over    
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on March 23, 2005, 02:26:38 pm
advance warning:   we understand that that further adjustments to the HCC-promoted traffic-calming scheme in part of Hawkshead Lane is provisionally planned for week commencing 14.04.05. 
The laying of red-surfacing of a different hue is likely to require temporary diversions ... etc
bw  -   j(f) 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on April 25, 2005, 08:53:30 am
we're now waiting to see if HCC finally confirm their revised scheme with new red road markings etc.     Unfortunately our observation so far suggests that the majority of drivers have not modified their behaviour:  what does anyone else think ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on April 25, 2005, 12:53:00 pm
So far John I have to agree with your observation - the majority of drivers on that stretch do not seem to have 'modified their behaviour' just because of some new red tarmac, pity! However, from my own observations, roughly half of the drivers hassling me from behind when I'm doing 30mph, end up turning into the vet college itself. (These are also the ones who are stuck on my bumper gesticulating when I'm doing the legal maximum of 40mph past the vet college farm buildings). Perhaps the vet college could encourage its staff and students to set a good example to everyone else by driving more sensibly along the whole of that road? The perhaps other people may get the message too.

Mermaid

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: john on April 25, 2005, 02:25:35 pm
Hi Mermaid  -  sorry to hear you're being pursued by "gesticulating drivers".   
One always need to start to engage from the general to the specific  -   like:
~  "you've tried pulling over, taking the number/s and reporting them  (eg   for dangerous driving as they're clearly not in full control of their vehicle ... ) ?
~  "frequency ... ?"   
~  " is the behaviour gratuitous ... (or could there have been some form a genuine emergency ?"   
~  "do you have some ideas as to how to encourage better driving  ?      given the status of private individuals on public roads ... that less than 1 in 3 vehicles in the Lane are associated with the College  ... ?

thanks !

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jazzman on April 25, 2005, 03:06:09 pm
Hi Mermaid,

You're not alone in being hassled by this type of pond life.

Rude and aggressive drivers seem to be the norm everywhere, and I don't think that the measures in Hawkshead have made a scrap of difference.

I now try and avoid this road whenever possible as I'm p*ssed off with being tailgated along its whole length, even on the narrow blind bends leading down to the bridge.

Where can I get hold of a 'Goldfinger' type Aston Martin, complete with reverse facing rockets etc?.....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on April 29, 2005, 06:03:02 pm
Advance apology for being a bore but.......
having just spent a week in the area North of London  and Herts I can only say that the standard of driving and politeness is  poor to say the least.
Its a pleasure to be back among polite, limit obeying drivers in Eire.
Its worth noting that Brits off the ferry in Rosslare drive in a way that lets us all down as a nation.
Cameras and fines etc. do not work.
BTW my last experience of England yesterday was a parking ticket, 3 mins  getting change for the meter. Payed Enfield councils agent NCP over the phone and was thanked by the computer for being a new customer. Sarky or what!
First parking fine in 34 years.
is this why drivers are so wound up and agressive in Blighty?
regards,
jet
The warden is stareing at Enfield highway as it ( not worth classifying as a gendered human) will be ad finitum, I am looking at the mountains, ha ha last laugh
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 23, 2005, 02:03:59 am
the speed bumps in brookmans ave damage my car
the speed bumps in the walk in PB can be taken at well over 60mph going up of down
if they put a hump back at the entrance to brooky p us boy racers would just use it as a jump

i more thing don't cross the road on the top of the hill where the blind corner is on bluebridge road are you mad??
better not tell you what car i drive then!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Cassie on June 23, 2005, 09:31:29 am
the speed bumps in brookmans ave damage my car
the speed bumps in the walk in PB can be taken at well over 60mph going up of down
if they put a hump back at the entrance to brooky p us boy racers would just use it as a jump

i more thing don't cross the road on the top of the hill where the blind corner is on bluebridge road are you mad??
better not tell you what car i drive then!


If only you were joking or winding everyone up but somehow I don't think so.  :(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 23, 2005, 09:53:05 am
I'm not joking and i'm not denying that i drive maybe a little too fast up that road but man its a great road!! This country's government wonder why we speed when they create so many lovely roads - take the exit off the uni roundabout in shatfield now they've changed the way into the uni (having to go all the way round and back on yourself) they have created a great little section where you can get air if you have enough speed.
I'm serious when i mean that if you put a hump back at the brigde on bluebridge i/we will use it as a jump.
While i'm thinking about it does anyone remember a white nova loosing a wheel on bluebridge - how funny!!!
Hey in a couple of years i'll grow out of it and hey i passed my test last year and have not had one accident yet. Great for me and my insurance.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on June 23, 2005, 11:59:02 am
I can see you think you're so clever.
Unfortunately you're not. I've nothing against speed in the right place but a residential area is NOT the right place.
One day when you've grown up and may even have children I think you'll probably realise this.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 23, 2005, 03:16:30 pm

Hey in a couple of years i'll grow out of it and hey i passed my test last year and have not had one accident yet. Great for me and my insurance.


The trouble is that you are not only putting your own life at risk but the lives of others as well. There are reasons for speed limits. In built up areas they are there because it is considered dangerous to travel any faster.

You might feel confident behind the wheel, but with only a year's experience you might not have experienced all the possible dangers.

Last night I was being driven up Moffats by a pal. Seconds earlier, a Range Rover tore along the road, clearly breaking the speed limit.

As we turned the blind bend at the top of Moffats, two children cycled across the road straight in front of us. If we had been travelling the speed of the Range Rover there is no doubt there would have been an accident. As it was, we were doing less than 30 mph and were able to brake. A car behind, travelling slightly faster, had to do an emergency stop.

Obey the speed limit or you might become a statistic, or, worse still, an innocent child, old person, or pet might.

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 23, 2005, 03:32:33 pm
That part of moffats going past the top of gobians car park and the corner after that i take slowww 25 maybe i'm not stupid and also the corner at the peak of bluebridge road the same there too i did not say i went round there quick i said people should know better than to cross there as it is a blind corner coming up the hill. When i get my new car it will be low and meant for kroozin at 30-40mph in the city only going fast on motorways when there empty. The thing that gets my goat is the fact they make say barnet road 40 and small country one track lanes with deadly blind corners 60??? I know that barnet road went from 60 to 40 because of 4 old biddys in a metro crashing into the 84 but how oh how can you crash on that road. Someone please check the info on that road for me please?????
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on June 23, 2005, 05:01:25 pm
Inda I've listened and I've tried to interpret, however you sound really immature. First point, why would you want to make a car jump on a bump and possibly damage the underside of the car. Plus by the sounds of things you hope to get your car lowered. Not a good idea if you plan on making the car take off. I was curious to know whether you had considered adding some wings to your car so you can take off like a plane? Maybe you could go for the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang Look?

Second of all, people are stupid enough to cross the road on bends and blind hills etc, however it would be even more stupider for a driver to speed through such areas knowing that people do stupids things, hence why you should drive carefully.

Regarding taking bumps at high speeds; I was curious to know whether you financed you're own car including the insurance?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 23, 2005, 05:30:40 pm
Yep 1100 fully comp no excess paid in full july last year and my insurance this year?? 855 f/c no excess. I don't want to lower the car i have now if you had read my thread correctly you would have noticed i said my next car. Somin in the 140- 160 mph top speed range
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on June 23, 2005, 05:46:19 pm
And had you read my thread correctly you would have noticed I didn't make reference to whether the car be the new or current one. I just said it sounds like you hope to get your car lowered whether it be old or new. Either way it doesn't make a difference what car you get lowered, it will still make it harder for you on the bumps.

Plus, jumping of bumps and speeding is a great way to get cheap insurance on the top speed, lowered cars you are after.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 23, 2005, 06:09:28 pm
Plus by the sounds of things you hope to get you're car lowered.

This is what you said my car but i don't want 'my' car lowered i would like my next car lowered and as i don't own that car yet it is not my car or your car as you say.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on June 23, 2005, 06:38:47 pm
If the car you plan on having in the future is not yours then who's will it be? 'Yours' was generalised = 'your future car' or 'your current car'. Either way, it is not worth making a big fuss of.

Quote
my car but i don't want 'my' car lowered
Quote
would like my next car lowered

Either way, a car lowered is not going to like bumps or jumps.



Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on June 23, 2005, 09:33:34 pm
Just to pick up on an earlier point, it does seem funny that Barnet Road is 40 all the way to Hadley Highstone but you can belt along at 60 along Kitts End lane, not that I do, of course, but there you go. I suppose the same applies to all of the back roads, lanes, etc around here.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 24, 2005, 12:04:33 am
lol ok mooniemad you win.
still you guys need to guess which one of the speeding motorists i am and if you don't guess obviously i'm not driving as fast as you think i am.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 24, 2005, 05:57:14 am

still you guys need to guess which one of the speeding motorists i am and if you don't guess obviously i'm not driving as fast as you think i am.


Unfortunately, you are not unique. You could be one of a hundreds drivers who speed through this village every day. What is worrying is your determination to continue to speed, break the law, and put the lives of others at risk.

This supports the case for stronger anti-speeding measures. Hopefully, someone with the power to do something about introducing such measures is reading this thread. It is clear evidence that 30 mph and 'drive with care' signs don't work with some  people.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 24, 2005, 09:09:23 am
They don't work with most people and don't think its young drivers either last night i was behind a middle aged guy doing 60 all the way up bluebridge in a merc cab talking on his phone now i don't drive and talk on my phone that is asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 24, 2005, 09:11:01 am

They don't work with most people
 

What do you think would work? What would your suggestion be for the measures needed to encourage people to drive within the speed limits?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 24, 2005, 09:19:43 am
well for one thing the max speed limit on any road excluding motorways is 60 am i right?? well why make cars that can do 200+ mph on public roads??
My solution?? Well some uni kids come up with it shortly after i had thought of it.
Each speed zone (eg barnet road into potters bar hitting 30 round the bend past dove lane) the sign should have a sensor in the car which cut engine power enabling the car to travel no more than the designated speed. This idea is full of flaws which i'm sure your gonna tell me but it is a good basis.
if your only supposed to go 30-60 then why are cars able to do 200mph+ silly really.
Its the same with computer games when parents say games like GTA san andreas make kids go out and copy it but hold on by law the kid shouldn't play the game as it is an 18 and the parent who brought the game is breaking the law aswell. Funny old world!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 24, 2005, 09:28:47 am
well for one thing the max speed limit on any road excluding motorways is 60 am i right??
No. Did you pass a driving test?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 24, 2005, 09:07:01 pm
you misinterperted what i meant i mean you'll never find a road faster than 60. gesh!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 24, 2005, 11:06:32 pm
The speed limit for cars on Dual carriage-ways (e.g. The 414 just after Colney Heath) is 70mph

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.htm#103

How did you pass a test without knowing the speed limits?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 26, 2005, 09:32:17 am
i was talking about normal 1 lane roads
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 26, 2005, 07:26:45 pm
Given your proven inability to put a coherent sentence together I suppose that is a plausible excuse. But looking at your posts it is painfully evident that you are ignorant of the speed limits – along with much else.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 26, 2005, 11:45:17 pm
nah i just don't really care for them
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: eric on June 27, 2005, 08:16:52 am
Can't decide whether we're reading a truly representative voice of contemporary lives in BP, or it's all a spoof that goes on too far ... ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 27, 2005, 10:48:32 am
well i live in potters bar anyway so my voice is of that place.
Anyway i'd just like to complain about the old people and their driving standards.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bada Bing on June 27, 2005, 11:11:18 am
Well, if these are genuine posts from inda_loft (and I hope they are) then I am glad that you are engaging with this forum. Rather then go back and forth arguing over the finer points of traffic law and interpretation of past forum posts, I just ask that you and your mates drive carefully and at a reasonable speed around BP. When you get older some of your priorities and outlook on life will change – I don’t mean to sound like an old git. Take care – cheers.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 27, 2005, 03:09:36 pm
Well, if these are genuine posts from inda_loft (and I hope they are) then I am glad that you are engaging with this forum. Rather then go back and forth arguing over the finer points of traffic law and interpretation of past forum posts, I just ask that you and your mates drive carefully and at a reasonable speed around BP. When you get older some of your priorities and outlook on life will change – I don’t mean to sound like an old git. Take care – cheers.

Spot on. Hey 50 years ago i'd have been married with kids and living in my own house but sod that life is for living - i don't drink but i smoke weed - i've been in one fight in my life ever - i've never stole anything from anyone - i work hard 6 days a week - i was never a streetrat/chav/grebeo/punk just me and my mates having fun playing footie, fishing, climbing trees ect... so i'm not such a bad guy after all and hey i drive a little fast but i never go more than 45-50 up the straight bit of bluebridge 30 max round the hill bend and don't accelerate coming into the village and also i go slooowwwww round the nasty bit in moffats 1st the narrow bit past gobians and then the bend down the hill - i've met a few people coming round that a bit fast and in the middle of the road too!!! Mostly women with merc's on the phone or old people.
Look forward to your replys
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on June 28, 2005, 11:40:09 am
What's wrong with being married with children (kids are baby goats)? I had great fun bringing up children, not all the time but then you don't have fun all the time working 6 days a week either. Also may I ask what you consider to be old? The only reason I ask is because when I started work when I was 16 I thought everybody was really old, but they were in fact between 20 & 30!!!!!!!!!!!! Which makes me positively ancient!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on June 28, 2005, 12:52:13 pm
nothing wrong with it just is not for me at the moment!! Well i'd consider old to be 65+ retirement age.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on June 30, 2005, 07:49:35 pm
Some people are " old " at a very young age.
Some people think they are wise because they have never experienced the stopping distance in relationship to the speed of a car.
Oh dear a child runs across the pavement in Bluebridge Rd, Oh dear a driver traveling at 50 MPH does not realise that if the child appears 50 yards in front of them then they will hit that child.
There is a reason for driving at a speed which will allow a person to stop in time, its all physics, no mystery.......
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Caroline A on July 22, 2005, 11:48:40 pm
I think it is about time there were some kind of calming measures in Moffats Lane.  There seem to be 3 cars being raced up & down this road at all hours at very high and quite scary speeds (and very high noise)  -  someone, or someone's pet, is going to get hurt or worse very soon.  It doesn't take much common sense to work out that this is not a very clever place to race. >:(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on July 23, 2005, 06:20:17 pm
So what's new? My cat got run over when I lived In Moffats Lane, pre-1972. There has never been any conceivable reason to drive so fast on any residential road in BP that you cannot stop in time to prevent yourself from running over a cat, or God forbid, a child. The speed bumps in the Avenue are a fine idea, and should be introduced throughought the village in my opinion, with the possible exceptions of the A1000 and Bluebridge Road. If you are that late, the extra 2 minutes it takes you to drive through the village within the speed limit will not help much!

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on July 23, 2005, 09:11:43 pm
I think it is about time there were some kind of calming measures in Moffats Lane. There seem to be 3 cars being raced up & down this road at all hours at very high and quite scary speeds (and very high noise) - someone, or someone's pet, is going to get hurt or worse very soon. It doesn't take much common sense to work out that this is not a very clever place to race. >:(

Hi Caroline A,

Welcome to the forum. I share your concerns. We live at the bottom of Moffats. Those guilty of speeding are not just the so-called 'boy racers', although they are often to blame. It's also adults, often with mobile phones to their ears. I think there are some who won't observe the speed limit voluntarily. Humps might be an option. Perhaps those of us who live on Moffats should park on the lane and force cars to slow down?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 23, 2005, 10:24:33 pm
I drove down Moffats this afternoon and was almost forced up onto the kerb my a Mercedes ML 4x4 driving about 3 feet away from the kerb on his side.

I've found Moffats particularly prone to this sort of driving - nothing against 4x4's per se but they do seem to be driven badly in many cases - and certainly driving whilst holding a phone is much too common.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on July 24, 2005, 11:52:44 pm
When ever i drive down moffats lane towards the village, on the corner before gobions there is always a 4x4 or a normal car in the middle of the road, people cant drive these days. They expect people to move out the way for them, well me in my fiesta i wont budge. They will have a damaged car.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 25, 2005, 12:13:22 pm
Unfortunately I wouldn't really want to use a Fiesta to stop a 4x4 !!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Boo Boo on July 25, 2005, 06:36:13 pm
Hmmm Oly - the damage to your little Fiesta would be far more considerable than the damage to a 4 x 4 ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on July 26, 2005, 12:15:19 pm
Oly has actually taken the time to customise his car. Recently he added a full damage proof body kit with a large hammer on the roof to smack any cars that didn't abide by the road laws.  ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barmy on October 27, 2005, 10:39:59 pm
When driving through local villages in my V8 Range Rover I do find it an inherant problem in that I fail to see such small cars as the humble Fiesta, in the same way that I fail to see ants on the pavement as I tread on them!  The complaint is about hogging the road.  As an onwer of such an offending vehicle, it is because I can that I do. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 01, 2005, 03:12:52 pm
I think an adaption of JFs comment ie " spoken by an ignorant 4WD driver" comes to mind.
Having just completed 1000 + miles last week in a trip to Blighty, I was put off the road by a ( guess the gender) 4WD driver in Moffats!
Having been out of the country for 6 months I was appaled at the dangerous inconsiderate driving and the plain rude behaviour of most motorists I came across.
The speed of traffic on the motorway which averaged 90 mph shows perhaps a reciprocal reaction to traffic cameras and humps etc.
What a beligerant society it has become.
regards,
jet
Who is happy to be back in civilisation again.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on November 02, 2005, 12:18:08 pm
So you're going to risk your life as well as the driver's and any innocent occupants of a 4WD that you may consider to be driving on your side of the road ???

Let's suppose you are travelling at, say, 25mph, with the 4WD vehicle doing the same. Do you think it would be a good idea to deliberately avoid moving out of the way to have an impact at 50mph just because you don't like 4WD's ??

I'm no fan of these vehicles but putting lives at risk (even if it is your own) isn't really very clever is it ? ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob on November 02, 2005, 04:12:39 pm
Most 4x4 drivers are arrogant and they think they rule the road. If you think that people will move out of your way then you are wrong, i will crash into a 4x4 at 30mph or less if they take up the road and I will not stop.

That is probably the most irresponsible comment that I have seen on this forum.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 02, 2005, 04:40:22 pm
Pretty daft I agree, but on the other hand, if someone in a vehicle of any kind is on your side of the road and hits you as a consequence, they have crashed into you and not you into them. Still, I would not risk even the inconvenience of a crash, let alone injury or death, simply to make a point.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on November 02, 2005, 08:14:42 pm
Oly - clever idea - you probably end up dead.    BTW, there are an awful lot of arrogant people in the world, the vast majority of whom do not drive 4x4s.  Arrogance, is your idea of crashing into them/letting them crash into you.

Bob & SQ - exactly.

Jet - back to civilisation - the country which has the highest death rate from road accidents in Europe.  :(  I am not sure that you quote from JF is correct.   He aimed something like that at me, but he did not use the word  "ignorant".   If you consider 4x4 drivers ignorant, then there is nothing much more I can add.

Mary
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 02, 2005, 10:15:31 pm
I used my comment in the context of replying to barmy ( because of his ignorant and perhaps tongue in cheek post) that certain 4WD drivers were ignorant, ie those with an attitude like  barmy, not all 4WD drivers, thats why I quallified it, so as not to offend anyone who drives their 4WD with consideration.
Just like certain any other types of driver can be ignorant to.
My observations are that a high proportion of 4WD drivers tend to appear to drive in an aggressive manner as if they cannot be harmed. Of course not all 4WD drivers drive in this way
As for Irish death rates, in general media reports sugest that they appear to be caused mainly by young intoxicated drivers who are speeding on open poorly designed roads. Most late Fridays there are fatalities. There are proposals to provide  better training for learner drivers as the general consensus of even young drivers is that they are not well prepared for driving after passing the test.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 05, 2005, 08:25:44 am
What on earth has age got to do with it? I think that anyone who gets involved in a road accident that they could have avoided just to make a point is a dangerous idiot, whatever their age, and I would have thought just the same when I was 17! Similarly, I see no arguments against 4x4s that are specifically related to age, except in as much as younger people will have to put up with the consequences of global warming for longer than us oldies. If the 4x4 is a dangerous polluting nuisance, it is equally so for all of us.

And I didn't think that young people really came  out with that "old people don't understand us" bleat. I thought this was something dreamed up by bad sitcom scriptwriters. You don't get to be an old person without having first been a young person, so we all know what it is like, and frankly, don't see much to complain about (wait until hair starts sprouting from your ears and nostrils and see how much you like it!).

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on November 05, 2005, 03:55:18 pm
Oly, I'm afraid that it isn't so much that young people don't share your views, it's just they are more mature than you.

Firstly you crash your car at what ever speed into the 4x4 and you'll have a damaged car. Why would you want to do that? Possible that the car is damaged so that it is immobile and possibly illegal on the road. You decide not to pass on your insurance details and then you could get in trouble with the Police. What happens if you want to make a legitimate insurance claim in the future for your car? They won't pay out if it's already been in an accident.

Secondly, just because you have already had a crash and had no physical harm, doesn't mean it will be the same case every crash you have.

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 06, 2005, 08:24:59 am
Anyway the car will end up on the scrap heap next year, im up-grading to a car for YOUNG people only Fiesta RS Turbo, at least that way il get more respect from a young person view.

Oly, you are Nigel Molesworth and I claim my five pounds!

How exactly does one apportion respect on the basis of car ownership? It has already, apparently, been determined that drivers of 4x4s are not worthy of respect whereas drivers of Fiesta RS Turbos are greatly deserving of it. How much respect should the driver of, say, a Mondeo or a Punto receive? I myself drive a 10 year old Hyundai Accent. How much respect would you say this entitles me to, if any? I would be very interested to know.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 06, 2005, 12:52:20 pm
Max, respect, "nil point" ( en accent francais) ha ha ha ha ha ha :icon_jokercolor:

Oly all offences are now criminal, accept parking which is civil, the swines made me a criminal last year with a camera out in the middle of nowhere, thanks B Liar.

I think what Oly is saying is that while we tend to swerve away when a leviathan of a chelsea battlecruiser being driven by an inconsiderate driver crosses the centreline that he will stand his ground and let them correct themselves, just like Biggles used to do when going head to head with a hun fighter pilot.

From my youth I used to wonder why older drivers used to jam the roads in their 3L Rovers at low speed, why? why did they buy them if not to enjoy the power. Perhaps it was conservation in the periods when they actually started between monthly complete strip downs and clutch/gearbox replacements.

Must go and wash the Astra Estate, well it is Sunday...........

regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on November 06, 2005, 07:38:07 pm
Not sure that I really think what Oly says he does is appropriate to compare to what our RFC and RAF pilots have done.  Even less so, so close to the 11 November.   

I love the admission of a speeding camera catch.  :D  We all ramble on about bad driving, but few of us admit to our mistakes - I will admit I never got one in the UK, but have picked up one since I have been here.  Though I do not think it is classed as criminal here :-[

Don't recall my dad ever driving his 3L Rover (amusingly nicknamed the "poor man's rolls royce" at the time) particularly slowly, though he was not an "older" driver, just a fairly tall one who liked a fairly large car.  I remember driving it myself once, that was enough - far too big - much bigger than my current modest Jeep Cherokee.

How one can apportion respect to a particular car beggars belief and is so basically laughable.    I own a JC, I drove a Hyundai Accent in Ireland in the summer, and a V. Corsa in England - all three of them perfectly respectable in my opinion, and I felt no less or more important in any one of them.  ;)


 




Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on November 06, 2005, 08:01:46 pm
Oly. grow up before you kill yourself and someone else as well.
M
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 06, 2005, 09:21:07 pm
Punto? with street cred? freakingrockinghippopottosaurus comes to mind.
Refering to Biggles is hardly disrespectful as his exploits are testament to the type of actions that allow us to use this forum. He showed respect to his foes as and when they deserved it and his ficticious exploits are based on actual happenings
It is never an appropriate time to make light of any of the services at any time, as someone who did not meet his Grandfather because of a hun submarine I am hardly likely to forget.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on November 06, 2005, 10:36:55 pm
Oly so a 17 year old in a BMW lacks respect because it isn't modified or a 3 door. Mate you need to get your lige sorted.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 07, 2005, 09:02:52 am
..... it is VERY imoportant for a young person to have a 3 DOOR car and modified these days since you may be seen as boring so i need to upgrade next year.

How times change. When I was a youth, it was important to have read Hess and Camus, and to know how to play a musical instrument, and the only thing important about cars was to at least know someone who had one who was going where you wanted to go. Personally, I couldn't imagine anything more boring than obsessing about cars. I haven't given much credence to all the whining about "dumbing down" that you read in the gutter press, but perhaps I should if it is true that there are people, young or otherwise, who decide how interesting someone is on the basis of the kind of car they drive.

Refering to Biggles is hardly disrespectful as his exploits are testament to the type of actions that allow us to use this forum. He showed respect to his foes as and when they deserved it and his ficticious exploits are based on actual happenings.

An unreconstructed racist, sexist, and an apologist for the Empire, as I remember, although I will admit that his exploits were quite exciting. I expect his only real objection to the Nazis would have been that they were German. He would probably have been the one driving on the wrong side of the road, considering that it was an Englishman's right to drive where he bally well pleases!

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 07, 2005, 10:53:30 am
Oh dear Max, as usual, denigrating a character using the old PC 3 card trick.
Captain William Earl Johns wrote several books in which the Heroine was Worrals of the RAF.
Major Bigglesworth DFC DFO and various bars was hardly sexist as he fell in Love with Marie in France. His hatred for the Teutonics was because at the time they tended to invade other countries and engaged a lot of their efforts in bombing England. He made a point of describing them as Huns or Nazis ( as applicable in each theatre of war) as against calling them Germans. I imagine this may have been because the majority of Germans did not want any wars, and the term German was too generic.
His attitude to foreigners was respect for them as long as they were not criminals. He detested drugs and Alcohol, his one vice being ciggarettes, excusable when one did not expect to see the next day and totally acceptable in that day and age.
He never told lies and always did the right thing. All in all a pretty good example to young people. Sadly lacking today.
In my youth cars where important, it enabled one to travel, get to work and be independant. They were fun to work on, improve and tune up. A great way of becoming knowledgable and avoid rip off garages. Musical instruments? well the Beatles were in ( they still are) but I don't recall knowing anyone who wanted to or could play anything, I probably went to the wrong school and was too busy working and studying to fit them in.
Talking about nostril and ear hair, where does it come from, it grows almost overnight. I should imagine in past times it was looked on as a sign of seniority rather than a blight.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 07, 2005, 12:15:33 pm
forget all of it, everyones boring and just moans at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 07, 2005, 02:28:35 pm
Hey Jet, we REALLY should try and meet up sometime over a few pints. I don't know when I last enjoyed disagreeing with someone so much.

Way, way off the topic, but might I point out that sexists fall in love all the time? It is perfectly possible to be in love and still have a patronising attitude towards what Major Bigglesworth would no doubt have considered the weaker or gentler sex!

Well, in any case we seem to have bored the pants off poor old Oly. I almost feel guilty.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 07, 2005, 09:13:17 pm
If you looked a little deeper Max you would find that we are one and the same on most things, we just approach the end result from different directions.
The only slight difference is that I am realistic and expect nothing of anybody. I am thus pleasantly surprised when a glimmer of light shines within the darkness of humanity.
( I reckon that deserves some kind of award for originality).
I see nothing wrong in recognising the differences and the complimentary ways of both genders, there is nothing weak in gentleness, nor derogatory in grace, when applied to either gender.
By the way no one recognised the difference between the RAF ans WAAF, a deliberate mistake to see if anyone was taking notice.
Oly is my cyber mate and I did not contribute to boring him in any way, he is just missunderstood.
regards,
jet
Nice to see the EU collapsing at last in to the Abbys and taking B Liars dreams of a totalitarian fascist  dictatorship with it ..........
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 08, 2005, 11:06:31 pm
No, im still here but ive given up on the stupid discussion. Il just watch instead.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on November 09, 2005, 08:09:50 am
Oly, old bean, I hate to sound patronising, but you really should be told. It's "I'm", "I've" and "I'll".
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 09, 2005, 11:38:27 am
Im not and old bean, im 20 il have people know younger than most ppl here, alrite il write it in txt language since i got an f in english, cos ppl moan at me cos i dnt rite things proply.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barmy on November 15, 2005, 10:08:42 pm
How did we get to chauvinism; sexism; ageism, the military and grammar lessons from a thread concerned with speeding through the village?  Actually my comment was tongue in cheek.  Actually, I paid the best part of 50 grand for my 4 x 4 and the prospect of me crashing anyone off the road or anyone simply driving into me in a small car (or any car come to that) does not fill my heart with joy.

I seek to avoid such incidents, but nevertheless remain quietly confident that unless I tangle with a vehicle larger than mine, I'll probably come off better.

I await the immediate challenge to this claim and the flood of anecdotal evidence that suggests there is no proof in my theory with interest, but it makes me feel better.

Fiesta RS Turbo - Perleeeaaase!  Will you be adding the furry dice and ultra violet under-sill lighting effects as well?  If you are buying that for credibility, your credibility battery is flat before you start!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on November 17, 2005, 09:26:33 am
A nice car could gain you respect, but then it doesn't mean nothing if the driver is an idiot.

Just out of curiosity, do they still make Ford Fiesta RS Turbos? I thought there was an issue with them to do with emissions.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 17, 2005, 02:48:14 pm
Not anymore, they stopped making them back in 1993. You can still buy them on a K reg plate for just under 2 grand for one in good condition.

After 1993 they changed it to the Fiesta RS1800.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 17, 2005, 03:00:24 pm
Fiesta RS Turbo - Perleeeaaase!  Will you be adding the furry dice and ultra violet under-sill lighting effects as well?  If you are buying that for credibility, your credibility battery is flat before you start!

Its a cheap car, its either that or the XR2i 16v, you can buy an XR2i for under a grand now. Im not like most ppl in BP, i only buy cheap cars so if people want to compain then be my guest.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on November 17, 2005, 08:36:45 pm
Oly, I am probably about to do your street cred an awful lot of harm. ;)  I actually think the Fiesta RS Turbo is a great car, and very nearly bought one myself many years ago, but for various reasons got persuaded into a more staid Escort Ghia.  Would you let me have a drive of yours when I come home on leave in the summer?  Always hankered after a Ford Sierra Cosworth (the 4wd version of course 8)) as well.

None, of course, would I have driven through Brookmans Park at more than the required speed limit.   :o

I don't know why barmy bought his 4wd, but one of the reasons I bought mine (at considerably less than 50 grand) was that it is great for overweight arthritics because it has grab handles to hoist oneself up with :D.   So, if you let me have a drive of your RS Turbo, I might need a gentle hand (or a hoist) to get into it. :P

Cheers
M
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barmy on November 17, 2005, 08:44:04 pm
Oly, Nothing wrong with buying cheap cars at all.  Things is you can do much better than an XR2i or an RS Turbo - both of which are high on the joyrider shopping list.

Check out www.autotrader.com and set up £1000.00 as your maximum price - select BMW as a make and be awestruck at the vast array of decent motors from this prestigious marque available for under a grand.  Also see Peugeot 205 - One catches my eye now -

1990 G Reg PEUGEOT 205 1.6 GTi Northridge Cars  3 Doors, Manual, Hatchback, Petrol, 84,000 miles, Metallic Blue, MOT-10-2006. Insurance Group:12, Full Leather Sports Intierior Very Nice Condition For year Brand NewTyres & New MOT. P/X to clear - £799.00 - A Bargain and SO MUCH better than an XR2i or RS!

Happy hunting...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on November 17, 2005, 11:53:30 pm
But the Mk3 Fiestas (XR2i and RS) look nice, nicer than the latest fiesta which is too big and too tall. I know lots of XR2i's and RS's get stolen, thats why the XR2i and RS is group 12 insurance.

Anyway, back to the subject; sorry mary but I havent got my next fiesta yet, i still have my 1.25 16v one at the moment.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bazza on January 22, 2006, 11:55:11 pm
In the words of J. Clarkson esq, "and on that bombshell, goodnight!"
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on January 26, 2006, 06:22:27 pm
As a resident of Moffats Lane I believe that the road is becoming A super speedway Track for all the fast cars in the area and some of the Buses as well.

I appreciate that people have to get to work,school,shops,etc but some of the knots the cars are doing is beyond believe.Only ever seen one policecar in the last year and only one policeman on the beat in 5 years not bad eh'. As a few of the residents have moaned about this problem for years and nothing done I suggest that lots of us take our cars of the driveways and park them in the road (thats what we pay ourcar tax for) This way the cars and vans etc that are speeding have to slow down.Its the speed that worries me for I know of at least 10 accidents so far. The last thing I want is for a Child or old person to get Killed so some one In authority do something if you have the BOTTLE.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 26, 2006, 07:04:13 pm
Hi,

I've merged this post with an existing thread about speeding in Brookmans Park, because the issue if speeding on Moffats has been raised before and it's best to keep all similar posts together.

I also live on Moffats Lane and agree about the speeding problem. It might help if those cars parked half on the pavement (or fully on the pavement) were to park on the road - then vehicles would be forced to slow down (and pedestrians wouldn't have to walk on the road either).

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on January 26, 2006, 07:49:44 pm
Hi,

I've merged this post with an existing thread about speeding in Brookmans Park, because the issue if speeding on Moffats has been raised before and it's best to keep all similar posts together.

I also live on Moffats Lane and agree about the speeding problem. It might help if those cars parked half on the pavement (or fully on the pavement) were to park on the road - then vehicles would be forced to slow down (and pedestrians wouldn't have to walk on the road either).

David

I walk across people's gardens rather than walk on the road.

I think this problem is getting worse - especially on Moffats Lane
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on January 26, 2006, 09:33:15 pm
Speeding is getting worse almost everywhere in Brookmans Park apart from Brookmans Avenue which has particularly aggressive speed humps.

I sympathise with those of you in Moffatts Lane who are having to endure high speeds, and please also spare a thought for us in Bluebridge Road where we suffer particularly badly from speeding drivers. I cannot understand why such high speeds in a 30mph area seem to be deemed appropriate by those who insist on driving that way, especially as, apparently, most of them actually LIVE in Brookmans Park. I wonder if it's largely to do with the fact that nobody seems to be pulled up for speeding any more, certainly not round here anyway. This enables all the selfish "I don't care about anybody else" smartarses to carry on exactly as they want to without anyone saying "no, you can't do that".

It's a lovely idea about parking in the road to force drivers to slow down and I really hope it works if you try it. However, I have noticed that most drivers these days 'force' their way round an obstruction (parked cars, road works, cyclists) rather than giving way to oncoming traffic. It's become so bad, and so widespread, that I recently asked the police if the rules had changed since I passed my test. They haven't, it's just another example of selfish driving.

Good luck, we'll be watching with interest!

Mermaid

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ADM on January 28, 2006, 10:08:03 am
Parking on the road is a good idea.  (It's certainly a lot more sensible than parking on the pavement which seems to be more common along Moffats Lane.  Surely obstructing the pavement is an offence.  Why don't the police.... Oh I forgot - they're too busy.)

The only drawback with parking legally on the road is that the same 'powers that be' who want to make Bradmore Green one way will decide to paint double yellow lines outside your houses. 

All bow down to the cult of the car.  Let no-one impede its progress.

I occasionally have to park on Bluebridge Road (no yellow lines outside my house yet!).  That certainly slows down the speeders.  Of course you do need nerves of steel to watch, as the speeders squeal to a halt inches from my jalopy.  It works though.  Don't tell me it's dangerous.  What's dangerous is the speed they're doing. 

Why on earth did the Welham Green traffic calming get removed?  Because it was dangerous.  NO IT WASN'T.  The danger is the speed of the drivers.  If they're not able to slow down and give way to oncoming traffic, they're either unfit to drive, speeding or both.

Anyway, good luck with aprking legally on the road.  I think it's a good idea.

Nurse!  Can you change these sheets...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Govvy on February 10, 2006, 02:01:18 pm
I'll bet if we had a plain clothes policeman/woman there for a day, they could issue over 100 speeding tickets!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 10, 2006, 03:14:19 pm
Oh and more!
Driving without due care and attention (seen a lot of that), dangerous driving (seen some of that), use of a hand held mobile telephone whilst driving (almost passe these days) to name but a few.

But some of the more unusual ones are driving a dangerous vehicle (seen 1 car at lunch time with 5 teenagers in it, suspension right against the bump stops  - wander where the teenagers were were from? Must be going off to study at home - yeah, right!), vehicles not complying with emission standards (some of the coaches that use Pine Grove), dangerous parking (within 10m of a junction), vehicles not in a roadworthy condition (head / tail lights not working), parking on the pavement (have you seen the road into Chancellors recently - a traffic warden would have a field day).  Oh and then there is underage smoking  - not an offence, but those cigarettes must be purchaed somewhere.

Given that approximately 300 people live on Pine Grove, I suspect that a lot of these violations are due to the SCHOOL THAT MUST NOT BE CRITICISED (STMNBC for short) ! Might be time for STMNBC to act responsibly towards the local community?

Alternatively, we could arrange for the local traffic police to have a 24 hour blitz in term time - that would bump the crimes reported / solved figures up!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Govvy on February 10, 2006, 04:04:18 pm
lol, that made me laugh read that lot, but ye, its all right and dam that would be a lot of tickets! Just today I saw one car with six formers doing about 90 down the road. And another decided to see how far they could skid at the end of the road!

That with the trucks now coming down that dirt track behind the school and dumping in the middle of the dirt track!
Bound to be an accident sooner rather than later at this rate.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Stevo on February 13, 2006, 05:28:33 pm
I've been on here for a while but never posted.

Do most of the speeding problems that you have noticed happen during the day?

Also, if possible, could someone let me know how to get to the dirt track?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on February 15, 2006, 10:32:16 pm
Hello Readers,

Did anyone report the matter to police?

Apart from two incidents - one on 10th and the other on 13th Feb. -  the only other incident was reported on 10th Nov 2005.

The number to call is 0845 33 00 222.

Vehicle index number, make, model and colour will certainly help. Any information will help build a pattern of when these incidents are taking place.

PC Jitu DAVE
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: inda_loft on February 18, 2006, 12:54:56 pm
I must correct this post Jet.

Just ask Jemery Clarkson about breaking distances.

The were written over 50 years ago and have never been chanced.

Take an old car say a morris minor for instance well this car took twice the stopping distance the highway code said it should have.
Then an average mordern family car eg Volvo Estate or somin similar it stopped in under 3/4 of the distance that the Highway Code said.
Finally a Mclaren mercades which admittadly had ceramic disk breaks but it stopped in well under half the distance!!!
Amazing how everyone refers to the Highway Code - a book which has changed little since it was first published.

So a reply to the post which says if a kid runs out in the road 50 yards away and your doing 50 mph you'll hit him
i say yer if i'm driving a morris minor!!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 21, 2006, 10:46:22 am
Dear PC Jitu Dave,
Thanks for this. Whilst I agree that your suggestion is the way to go, my experiences elsewhere suggest you are being optimistic. As a cyclist I have been knocked off my bike in the area where these problems exist on more than 1 occasion. Each time I escaped unscathed but regardless I called the police only to be told that unless I had at least 1 independent witness, it was a waste of time to report such incidents. So no, I will not bother to call to report the incidents outlined earlier.

The volume of incidents is certainly rising as 6th formers at STMNBC are now allowed to drive to school on the grounds they can then  drive home to study when formal lessons are over. Observation suggests that this policy is being abused, with many of the driving practices outlined earlier a common occurrence. This is regardless of the cavalier attitude to road safety of others who appear to frequent the premises in question.


Given the limitations of following the approach you have outlined and the ongoing road safety issues, what is to be done? To quote that old rogue Lenin, 'We can / must find another way'. Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mallow on February 21, 2006, 11:47:10 am
"STMNBC"????
 ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 21, 2006, 02:05:06 pm

The volume of incidents is certainly rising as 6th formers at STMNBC are now allowed to drive to school on the grounds they can then  drive home to study when formal lessons are over. Observation suggests that this policy is being abused, with many of the driving practices outlined earlier a common occurrence. This is regardless of the cavalier attitude to road safety of others who appear to frequent the premises in question.


I think PC Jitu Dave is right. If you have information about driving dangerously on Pine Grove or anywhere, it would be better to report it to him so that he can investigate rather than blaming one particular group of people before the evidence has been assessed.


The number to call is 0845 33 00 222.  Vehicle index number, make, model and colour will certainly help. Any information will help build a pattern of when these incidents are taking place.

PC Jitu DAVE


David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 21, 2006, 05:21:24 pm
Quite frankly thats naive. I have reported the incidents with regard to cycling (see the post) and been told that  nothing further can be done without an further independent witness. And guess what - legally that is correct and nothing was done. However, it does nothing to stop the problem. There is no reason to think that the rules of evidence have changed.

It is also beyond reasonable doubt that vehicles seen entering or leaving the site in question between 0800 and 1800 are associated with STMNBC. It is also beyond reasonable doubt that 6 teenagers aged 17 or so in a car in Pine Grove at lunchtime in term time are not there by random chance.

Goovy has seen the problems: so have I. Making complaints to the police has proved to be ineffective in the past. The job of the police is to gather evidence. I will support them in that. But it is not my job to establish when a crime is being committed.
So lets have a presence.

Oh and STMNBC - School that must not be criticized. Well at least here anyway.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 21, 2006, 05:27:29 pm

I am afraid that STMBNC is again attempting to muzzle any criticism  and I quote 'so that he can investigate rather than blaming one particular group of people before the evidence has been assessed.'.


Hi Agent Orange, I am finding all this code difficult to follow. Who is attempting to 'muzzle any criticism'?  I still think your best way to deal with the situation is by contacting the police. Luckily, PC Jitu Dave is a member of the forum and you can contact him directly.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on February 21, 2006, 05:28:36 pm
Its not code - its called complying with the site rules in the nicest possible way. :) I also take too long to modify and correct my writing.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on February 21, 2006, 05:46:28 pm
I hate to be down on the police again, but in my experience calling the police to report what they see as a minor crime is a waste of time. Without an independent witness they will not be able to prosecute or even issue a caution. Even with an independent witness I suspect that the police will see these matters as too trivial to expend resources on. Of course they could always stick a panda on Pine Grove once in a while and witness the events for themselves.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sharks on February 23, 2006, 12:11:07 pm
I am of the understanding that Chancellors School takes seriously any incidents such as those mentioned in the thread below.  In particular you are right to report any incidents of damage or injury to the police, who will I am sure take the matter seriously.  The school would also welcome notification of such incidents with as much detail as can be provided.  Please email admin@chancellors.herts.sch.uk of phone the school office on 01707 650702.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 16, 2006, 03:44:11 pm
Speed humps is the answer!

Rocket
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 17, 2006, 09:33:00 am
According to local police, there will neve be speed humps in Brookmans Park because it's a bus route and it would be too uncomfortable for the passengers.
A 'give way island' as they had recently in Welham Green  & still have in South Mimms, would work well at the river bridge in Bluebridge Rd. The only time traffic slows down there, is when it's flooded! ;)

Rocket
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Lectricary on March 17, 2006, 10:49:09 am
“According to local police, there will neve be speed humps in Brookmans Park”. What a stupid remark. Firstly there are speed bumps in Brookmans Avenue, illegal ones but still there. Secondly there are many roads that have speed bumps and carry buses Northaw Road for instance.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 17, 2006, 11:19:10 am
I don't think it's a stupid remark when I was referring to the BUS ROUTE in BP! ::) Not interested in other villages. Besides, the speed humps in Barnet were removed because of that reason. ;)


Rocket
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Lectricary on March 17, 2006, 11:45:40 am
So BP is a special case. Were the speed humps in Barnet removed because of the comfort of bus passangers or because of emergency vehicles? Modern humps are set like pillows and buse straddle them but police cars and ambulances do not have a wide enough track.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Laurel on March 17, 2006, 03:02:28 pm
Having sat through many a council meeting, I get the impression that councils tend to avoid speed bumps in favour of other methods of traffic calming like crossings, electronic speed reminder signs etc. Speed bumps are often seen as a bit too "draconian", to quote a higways man from a recent Welwyn Hatfield council meeting.

I suppose they slow people down more than 30 when they go over them too and there is still some debate in general about whether they damage the underside of cars even if the driver is going within the speed limit...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on March 17, 2006, 07:58:36 pm
If anyone can tell me who agreed to 12 speed bumps on Green Lanes, Hatfield Garden Suburb, I will personally alter his appearance.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mooniemad on March 18, 2006, 10:40:03 am
Found this and thought it  may be a good opportunity for some folk out there.

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/content.asp?id=13014
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 18, 2006, 11:09:47 am
If anyone can tell me who agreed to 12 speed bumps on Green Lanes, Hatfield Garden Suburb, I will personally alter his appearance.

Only interested in Brookmans Park on this Brookmans Park Web Site!! ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 18, 2006, 01:00:29 pm
Nice to see the Traffic Warden back on Bradmore Green today!! :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on March 18, 2006, 01:54:21 pm
Having just notices India Lofts public rubishing of my stopping distance comments I think its important to reply in case any one gets the idea that their brakes will get them out of trouble.
At 50 mph over a distance of 50 yards over one third of the distance is lost by reaction time alone, thats supposing one is concentrating and not distracted.
Modern braking systems are all very well however the stopping time is dependant on tyre and road conditions. ABS brakes may make it all worse and at best may allow you to steer up the pavement or into an on comimg vehicle.
I assure you India loft that over 50 yards at 50 MPH you will impact that child. If you are going down hill, in the dark and in the rain then you won't even know its happened.
And thats why people get killed, its because know alls are only wise after the event They think they don't have to obey speed limits and believe they know better.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on March 18, 2006, 02:24:34 pm
Welcome back Jet !
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on March 18, 2006, 04:23:44 pm
Well said Jet. I for one am getting tired of people driving too close to me in their newish cars on the mistaken belief that they can stop instantly.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 18, 2006, 05:53:14 pm
If only motorist didn't park on yellow lines, the risk of an accident would be reduce!! ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Margaret on March 24, 2006, 01:51:19 pm
Why would acidents be reduced if people stopped parking on yellow lines. It seems to me that the vast majority of yellow lines are designed to stop you parking in the road and having to pay for a car park!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 24, 2006, 01:56:37 pm
Why would acidents be reduced if people stopped parking on yellow lines. It seems to me that the vast majority of yellow lines are designed to stop you parking in the road and having to pay for a car park!!

I refuse to answer that question!! ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Govvy on April 18, 2006, 07:14:46 pm
Speed humps is the answer!

Rocket

I am not sure about speed humps, with the traffic in the morning then whats worse is the pickup at 3.30 with everyone parking on the road. Its already getting conjested... I was just raising an issue that is increasing and felt phoning the police about the problem might result in short abstain approach.

My previous idea was to make notice of this on the forum and I knew the police already monitor here, beleiving they might take on board the idea of a plain car to watch for themselves or even plant a camera in the road.

I also feel that a proper speed camera on the A1000 just outside Georges Wood Road might help the area.

These are just thoughts and idea's, Thanks for listening, The Governer!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: pinegrover on April 21, 2006, 11:49:46 pm
I wonder if anyone has any information on this evening's entertainment at Chancellors'? 

The school car park and playground appeared to be used as a park and ride facility.  Cars were parked at the school and Welwyn Hatfield minibuses were used to transport the occupants elsewhere, then return them to their cars.

I assume this was carried out with the agreement of the school ( and council ) as I was informed that a member of the school staff was on hand to direct the traffic.

I understand that the same situation will occur tomorrow, Saturday, and wonder if this something that is likely to continue on a regular basis...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Stevo on April 22, 2006, 10:46:53 am
I wonder if anyone has any information on this evening's entertainment at Chancellors'? 

The school car park and playground appeared to be used as a park and ride facility.  Cars were parked at the school and Welwyn Hatfield minibuses were used to transport the occupants elsewhere, then return them to their cars.

I assume this was carried out with the agreement of the school ( and council ) as I was informed that a member of the school staff was on hand to direct the traffic.

I understand that the same situation will occur tomorrow, Saturday, and wonder if this something that is likely to continue on a regular basis...


There was an event on at the church in Kentish Lane, Chancellors was used to provide car parking for the large numbers attending.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on April 22, 2006, 11:40:19 am
We (the scouts) use Chancellors School probably about 4 times a year for drop off/picking up for major scout camps/trips etc as it is about the only place in the village which is suitable for having coaches waiting and still have enough space for lots of parents to drop their sons off with their kit safely.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on April 22, 2006, 05:55:15 pm
Daer all,

The Greek Easter celebration is taking place on 21 and 22 April at The 12 Apostle Church. They use the Chancellors School car park every year.

PC Jitu DAVE
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AgentOrange on April 26, 2006, 10:00:14 am
So Chancellors is now the village bus station as well!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on April 26, 2006, 12:18:57 pm
Yes, Chancellors have agreed to kindly let us use their premises for picking up/dropping off from coach trips. It's not the most ideal location, but I'm sure if we tried it somewhere else the number of complaints would be very high indeed.

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on April 26, 2006, 03:49:31 pm
The Church of the 12 Apostles (Greek Orthodox) gets massive numbers of people turning up for Easter, (including self, spouse and offspring when we are in the country) due to the fact that Easter is by far the most important date in the Greek Orthodox calender. It took place last weekend due to the fact that the Greek Jesus was crucified a week after the Protestant and Catholic ones. People come from all over London and the home counties as this is one of the more important Greek Orthodox churches (possibly the most important) in the London area. Even if you are not a religious person, the fireworks are excellent, and you get a glass of wine. I'd suggest going along next year as it is fun.

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on April 26, 2006, 04:04:48 pm
Max

Sounds great fun! The BP prayer group can't compete with that! We'll be there next year!

Barnabus
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on June 05, 2006, 10:06:42 am
There was an accident in Brookmans Park on Sunday afternoon at 1720hrs. A red Ferrari collided with a Volvo estate on the left hand bend by the United Reformed Church on Bluebridge Road.

The point of this message is, double yellow lines should be painted on both sides of the road on this dangerous blind bend which is on a brow of the hill.

Editor's Note: The original post has been edited because we can't say that this was down to speeding until a person has been charged for speeding. We can't say that a vehicle involved an accident is often seen speeding through the village until the owner/driver has been charged. We can't suggest blame when the police will be dealing with it and blame is still being decided.

Dear Rocket, please do not edit this back to the original again.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on June 05, 2006, 10:37:40 am
Ok, point taken.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 05, 2006, 10:49:44 am
Hi Rocket,

Thank you for your understanding.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 16, 2006, 09:41:47 pm
I saw the results of this accident whist out with my youngest child. It looked very serious, with two ambulances in attendance, although I pray that the lack of any reports indicate that there was no loss of life or serious injury this time.

double yellow lines should be painted on both sides of the road on this dangerous blind bend which is on a brow of the hill.

On the Monday after this crash I had to park my car on Bluebridge Road during the school run. There are no yellow lines, double or single, where I parked and the visibility was good. Never the less, I twice heard screeching breaks and the sound of horns and turned to see cars narrowly miss head on collisions.

This was not an isolated day, nor is the school run special. Occasionally I have parked my car there on a Saturday, to much the same result. I have heard of parked cards I have also avoided collisions when being overtaken by cars doing 70 on that road

I don’t know what caused the crash that Sunday, and my remarks are not supposed to present any comment on that crash. But you could paint all the lines you like and turn it into Yellowbridge Road and it still wouldn’t protect anyone from those drivers who insist in driving in an idiotic and selfish fashion.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 17, 2006, 09:00:38 am
I always found it hard to come to terms with the Welham Green calming efforts. How to make things safer by making half the traffic drive on the wrong side of the road? However would be interested to know if it was felt it worked and why it was removed in the end.

As I know people in Bluebridge I am always careful to slow over the bridge coming into the village. That to me marks the boundary from a large open country road to a large road in a quiet village. Personally when driving elsewhere I suspect I react more positively to signs saying for example "Please drive carefully through our village" than to speed signs which tend to be unrealistic in the first place. Something like that might have the right psychological effect on drivers both from in the village (who should be shamed a little) and those from outside (who might just think twice about the village and not just regard it as a road.)

To me the word "village" conjures up the place in Norfolk where my Dad was brought up and where you CANNOT drive fast since they regard people, dogs, chickens and cows as having right of way and if you have a crash it is likely to be with a tractor or combine harvester. It's all in the mind!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 17, 2006, 10:04:00 pm
Over the years cars have been altered to make them safer by the addition of technology such as air bags, side impact bars, ABS etc. The theory is that the increased feeling of protection given to the drivers gives them so much that they are willing to take more risk in their driving patterns by drive faster, braking latter etc. Conversely, forcing the driver to face on coming cars makes them feel a lot less safe. As a result, they slow down and take more care over that stretch of road. As you say, it’s all in the mind.

What do you find “unrealistic” about a speed sign?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 18, 2006, 09:41:58 am
I dont think I am alone in not driving along looking at my speedo all the time making sure I am under the limit. I tend to drive according to the circumstances. In my view entering a village requires slowing down , whether I am going at 30 or 35 I couldnt say. I think the problem is too many people ignore the "village" bit and concentrate on the wide straight road and coming down hill so travel faster along Bluebridge than they should.

I just thought a few cheap signs would have more impact than more disruptive road works to make bumps which after all affect those in the village more than most?

Take your point on the Welham Green island-guess there never were any head on collisions as everyone DID slow down. Why was it done away with?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on June 18, 2006, 07:37:20 pm
That's just the way I feel, Peter.

I have heard the opinion expressed that the best way to make people drive safely would be to remove the driver's seat belt and replace it with a 30 cm iron spike dipped in stonefish venom protruding from the middle of the steering wheel!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Neville Hobbs on June 19, 2006, 05:43:01 am
Pot holes slow down cars. People dont speed along unmade roads and small cars with small engines also slow things down as they do here in Cyprus.
I found the road calming devices which slow me down and dont irritate me are the ones int The Walk, Poters Bar. They are wide, flat humps placed close together preventing the desire to speed up inbetween. At 30 mph they are comfortable to drive over, but any faster and they are nasty.
Or we could dig potholes!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 19, 2006, 10:04:30 am
That sounds good. The bumps in Brookmans Avenue are comfortable only at 10mph which means even if you are dawdling along at 20 you have to keep slowing down and speeding up. This just sends everyone down Moffats Lane instead.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 19, 2006, 10:09:29 am
I dont think I am alone in not driving along looking at my speedo all the time making sure I am under the limit. I tend to drive according to the circumstances. In my view entering a village requires slowing down , whether I am going at 30 or 35 I couldnt say.

Hi Peter,

I think I know what you are trying to say here, but I would recommend using the speedo rather than guess work. When I approach a 30mph zone I always check my speed. I frequently get cars behind me closing in on my rear at an alarming rate. I am not sure it is possible to get it right by guess work.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 22, 2006, 08:21:03 am
David I am afraid you may be right- I came down Hawkshead road yesterday keeping under the 40mph limit and felt like I was crawling, but i would say it is hard to drive down there much above 50 without drifting. I suppose if everyone kept to all the limits, accidents would be reduced.

I did check the speedo on my run up Brookmans Avenue so i can confirm the speed bumps are too great an obstacle reducing the speed to only 10mph so even slow drivers are bumped.

I see also that there is a sign of sorts at the bridge on Bluebridge (which is partly hidden ) asking people to drive carefully- perhaps it should read "slowly".

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on June 23, 2006, 11:21:19 am
A sign on BB Road says 'Kill your speed'.  A visitor from the USA was most impressed.  It certainly makes you think.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 23, 2006, 05:35:41 pm
yes that does get the real message over. Its difference between "smoking may damage your health" and "smoking kills".

I also like the inclusiveness of "our village" somewhere in signs. This is not a officious notice, it is a local request to respect where we live and those who live here.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 23, 2006, 06:00:45 pm

A pity that more local drivers don't observe the signs then!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 24, 2006, 09:59:26 pm
I have driven up and down Bluebridge four times today (dad's taxi). In one journey into the village and the other out of the village, drivers behind me closed in on me at speed. This is not unusual. In both cases I was observing the speed limit, they clearly were not. I find it both dangerous, annoying and intimidating. I wonder what speed they would drive through the village if they were not held up by me.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 24, 2006, 10:44:59 pm

We estimate that some of them are doing 50mph plus! And then there are the ones that are a mere blur as they pass our window - 60mph?

But whatever it is - it is TOO FAST!!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 25, 2006, 10:25:53 am
This is worse than I thought. When did they last have a speed gun down there?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 25, 2006, 01:46:06 pm
I haven't seen a speed gun along BB Road for a couple of years. The officers used to set up just over the road from The Gardens. The trouble was that they are required to make themselves visible (so as not to be accused of entrapment), so naturally every driver would have a very clear view of them and the speed was instantly and miraculously reduced. Add to this the drivers flashing oncoming cars to warn them and you have some truly model driving!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on June 25, 2006, 02:41:12 pm
This is worse than I thought. When did they last have a speed gun down there?

Last Tuesday, about 8pm

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 25, 2006, 04:00:26 pm
I didn't see them at all, must have been having a glass of wine on the patio ....
 :D

Did they catch you then, or were you and your bike too fast for them?

 ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on June 25, 2006, 11:06:58 pm
I know that we all complain about them, but would a speed camera not be the answer to the problem of drivers speeding down Bluebridge Road?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 28, 2006, 04:04:04 pm
We estimate that some of them are doing 50mph plus! And then there are the ones that are a mere blur as they pass our window - 60mph?

I have been wondering if the residents of Bluebridge Road should use their cars to create a chicane and force the traffic to slow.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on June 29, 2006, 11:36:43 am
The Parish Council is to arrange a meeting with Highways to see what might be done about speeding on Bluebridge Road and Dixons Hill Road.  This was decided at the PC meeting on 28 June.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 29, 2006, 11:51:41 am

Hurrah! Let's hope it's soon!

Would the PC like some written testimonies from residents to help the cause? Perhaps even another petition to show them?   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 29, 2006, 01:20:38 pm
Can't be soon enough. There have been some very bad crashes on this road and I have seen a great deal of near misses.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 29, 2006, 06:40:46 pm
The Parish Council is to arrange a meeting with Highways to see what might be done about speeding on Bluebridge Road and Dixons Hill Road.  This was decided at the PC meeting on 28 June.

That's good news Bob.

Thanks for the chat just now. A few more details here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/june06/calming.shtml).

If anyone has any suggestions as to what would be the best calming measures, please add them to this thread and the parish councillors can consider them when they meet representatives from Hertfordshire Highways.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on June 29, 2006, 07:09:05 pm
Thats good news. I think coming up with effective measures will be easier said than done but at least the will and support is there.

I am still troubled by coming from 50 to 30 from Hawkshead into Bluebridge-with a big wide road people just dont seem to get it. I am not convinced by bumps (see my comments on the ones in Brookmans Avenue) but one big one on the bridge might be the answer?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on June 29, 2006, 07:35:19 pm
but one big one on the bridge might be the answer?

I guess you are not a motorcycle rider. We will exchange one danger for another. Bumps are well and good in daylight and fine weather. Not so great in the winter for the unsuspecting rider coming along in the dark unable to distinguish the snow covered bump laying in wait.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 29, 2006, 07:51:47 pm
We (the Mermaid household) are so desperate for someone in authority to actually listen to us and do something to help us in Bluebridge Road that we'd consider almost anything (a whole string of cars have just gone past at about 50mph plus - it's 7.15 pm and men are returning home from work in a hurry, I guess they don't care what speed they do).    >:(

I happen to like the speed bumps in Brookmans Ave, some of them are vicious and would probably damage the underside of a car at 50mph. It would certainly slow quite a few people down!     ;D

A speed camera may be a very good option as it has the advantage of making the offending drivers physically pay for their crime. I gather that points get put on licences too, which again would be excellent, as it will hit them, for a change, where it hurts. They can afford to pay fines over and over again, but they won't want to lose their licences.

I like the flashing signs in Hadley too, but they can be ignored (and often are). They would be great if the first one flashed at you and then the second acted as a speed camera if you hadn't slowed down. (No charge for that idea).

Personally I would like to see 'governors' in every car that responded to signals embedded in the street lights system - as cars enter a 30mph area, they are automatically slowed to 30mph. "Dream on" I hear the cry go up!

So, the speed camera is possibly the best option at the moment in our view.



 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 30, 2006, 08:30:08 am
The advantage of a speed camera on Bluebridge Road  is that it would pay for itself very quickly. You would need two, as the cars accelerating to leave the village are almost as bad as those entering it.

I like the idea of putting the hump back on the bridge, and have said so on the speeding topic. I can see the issue with motorbikes, but if the danger was well signposted then the rider should slow down in time.

Another option, space permitting, is to place a roundabout at the end of The Gardens and/or Bluebridge Avenue.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 08:35:05 am
So,


Any more? Once we have all the options I will set up a poll.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on June 30, 2006, 08:39:31 am
I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be a problem with speed humps on a bus route.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 08:47:17 am
I can add it to the poll anyway and the powers that be can sort it out.

Should chicanes be added to the list?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 08:53:15 am
I'm not 100% sure but I think there may be a problem with speed humps on a bus route.



I don't think so, otherwise there wouldn't be humps in The Walk in Potters Bar or Bishop's Rise in Hatfield. For sure there will be rules & regs governing the dimensions of the humps so as not to cause problems to buses, coaches and emergency vehicles.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 08:59:03 am

Should chicanes be added to the list?

David

Not sure about chicanes, BB is a very busy road at certain times of the day and they might hold up the flow of traffic. We're not looking to impede traffic flow, just slow down the speeding drivers.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 09:33:24 am
okay, no chicanes - anything else that should be added to the poll?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 30, 2006, 09:36:23 am
chicanes might still wotk if they were wide/long enough to allow two cars to pass each other, but narrow enough to make the driver want to slow down.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 09:38:30 am
okay, will stick all the options down. Any more? Gun turrets? Road spiked?  (only kidding)

 ;)

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 30, 2006, 09:54:55 am
I was going to say that if you gave RPGs to the parents who live on the road we'd propably only have to use them twice before drivers got the message. In the long run that would probably result in less deaths than any other option. But I decided that would be too silly a remark, even for me.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 10:24:48 am

Lol   ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 10:49:32 am

Another thought: it's great to have a poll on the site, but not everyone looks at it. In view of the fact that BB Road residents are/will be the most affected, we should make a special effort to get as many of their views as possible, particularly as we may be inching towards having something actually done about it.

We could do this two ways:

Canvas BB Road opinion door-to-door, either by personal survey or letter-drop survey (as the PC has just done).

Meeting in the Church Hall.

I favour the former as I like to get quotes, as well as tick boxes, and I might be able to get a little team together to do the south end of BB. Perhaps John Fraser could manage something similar at the north end?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 30, 2006, 10:53:02 am
happy keen to help in anything that will reduce the speeding on this road
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 11:17:23 am

Great! Let's have a get-together & chat about it - I'll talk to you later off-line...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Gashead on June 30, 2006, 12:36:45 pm
As an extension to the Hadley flasher, I came across a scheme in Spain a couple of years back involving traffic lights - they stayed green as long as the speed detector wasn't triggered but turned red if it was, and held you there just long enough that it was worth while not speeding. Presumably with a camera if you subsequently ran the red light, it seemed to be very effective.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 02:26:12 pm
I've added a poll about traffic calming measures for both Bluebridge Road and Dixons Hill Road.

Click on the go up button below (it looks like this) (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/Themes/default/images/english/go_up.gif) to find the poll.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on June 30, 2006, 02:31:49 pm
In the interests of fairness, shouldn’t there be "No measures needed" option?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 02:33:11 pm
In the interests of fairness, shouldn’t there be "No measures needed" option?

Well spotted, option added.

 ;)

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 30, 2006, 02:54:36 pm
Shouldn't that be a 'no measures' for each road separately then?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 30, 2006, 02:56:15 pm
Shouldn't that be a 'no measures' for each road separately then?

 :-[

It's nice to have so many editors.

 ;)

Thanks Mermaid, have made the change.

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on July 01, 2006, 10:57:07 am
Surely this should be two polls? I feel there is a need to slow down traffic on Bluebridge Road, whilst seeing no need for any such measures for Dixons Hill Road, and I cannot express this through the poll as set up.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on July 01, 2006, 11:03:20 am
Surely this should be two polls? I feel there is a need to slow down traffic on Bluebridge Road, whilst seeing no need for any such measures for Dixons Hill Road, and I cannot express this through the poll as set up.

The idea for having one poll was that I assumed that people would be most interested in the road nearest them where the speeding is taking place.

People only get one vote, so I presume that the two who have voted for flashing signs on Dixons Hill Road either live near that road or use it regularly and have less of an interest Bluebridge, and vice versa.  But I could be wrong.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: daisy on July 01, 2006, 01:29:38 pm
May I refer to something Peter said on a previous page.

Quote
As I know people in Bluebridge I am always careful to slow over the bridge coming into the village. That to me marks the boundary from a large open country road to a large road in a quiet village. Personally when driving elsewhere I suspect I react more positively to signs saying for example "Please drive carefully through our village" than to speed signs which tend to be unrealistic in the first place. Something like that might have the right psychological effect on drivers both from in the village (who should be shamed a little) and those from outside (who might just think twice about the village and not just regard it as a road.)
Quote

Stopping people from speeding is hard as people do not make the connection between the way they drive and the way others drive in their road!

Hopefully this tragic accident in which Tomer lost his life has made people in the village rethink their driving habits. Speed is restricted in order to save lives. I have found that if I tell myself the cyclist who is slowing my journey is my "niece or nephew" I drive differently around them!!Or the person who is traveling slowly may have recently had a knee operation or similar! There are countless reasons and we all want others to be patient with us, but are we patient with others?

Do as you would be done by.  If you don't like people driving too close to the back of your car, don't do it to others. Should we not be driving defensively anyway, aware of possible hazards? 

Another observation I have is that as less people play team sports, people are less aware of the space they take up and where they are in relation to that space, all of which impacts hugely on driving.  An example of this would be keeping to their side of the road in Moffats Lane, so as to avoid any possible oncoming traffic? People come along at speed on my side of the road. Where do they suppose I should go? Do they think they don't take up space?  ??? Obviously I should just dissolve as I am in their way!  :icon_scratch:

Leafletting may help if it asks people to consider their driving habits as well. Sometimes a demonstration works well too, or explaining to people who are just too busy with their issues to think that their bad habits impact on others!! Unfortunately people do not connect their need to hurry to a venue with speeding or bad driving.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Largey on July 01, 2006, 08:58:05 pm
What about the residential part of Swanland Road. ?
Swanland Road has seen more serious accidents than both Bluebridge and Dixons put together...for years.

Vehicles travel along Swanland EVERY day in excess of 100mph. We have had our Post Box already destroyed by such driving and its only a matter of time before one of these rediculous drivers ends up in one of the houses.

Even with the introduction of road calming and positioning of 30MPH signposts in Warrengate Road and Hawkeshead..... Swanland gets left out.

This road NEEDS a speed limit for at least the length of the residential area plus the junction with Warrengate Road. Strangely enough no one seems to care about the 11 residences here.... another example of a small Hamlet being ignored..much the same way as we will most probably be ignored by the introduction of a PCSO... Of course we all have to pay for the services and extreemly high Council tax......
(Having a moany day !!)   :(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on July 01, 2006, 09:26:53 pm
What about the residential part of Swanland Road. ?
Swanland Road has seen more serious accidents than both Bluebridge and Dixons put together...for years.

Hi Bob, any chance of adding Swanland Road to your wishlist when you approach the highways department?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on July 02, 2006, 02:22:08 pm
Speeding is a general problem in the Brookmans Park area.   Hawkshead Lane has just been resurfaced and what a pleasure it is to drive down.   Unfortunately the many local residents who use it to bypass  Potters Bar can now drive even faster down it!!    The same can be said of Bradmore Lane which you have to drive up at your own peril!!!   Warrengate Road may have 30 mph signs at either end of it but the stretch of road from the pumping station to the bungalows is now very narrow since the flood defences were built, with high kerbs and still I meet drivers approaching at 50-60 mph.   

Please lets all think about the way we drive. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Saint_Mark on July 03, 2006, 09:42:45 am
There are similar problems at Pine Grove, which is obviously seen less by most of you. The school run and dozens 6th formers (and plenty of adults in fast cars) speeding from the very top of the road at the secondary school down the hill to the bottom is amazing. Many easily reach 60 miles an hour. It is a matter of time before a child is killed. I am going to write to the council and the headmaster at the school in the coming weeks - please tell me if there is a better way of trying to get speed bumps etc...thanks
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Saint_Mark on July 03, 2006, 09:54:54 am
I saw the recent comments on the site re speeding in BP. I live near the bottom on Pine Grove and the speeding coming down the hill from the school is very bad. Often teenagers coming from the school, often older teenagers is £100k cars. Either way they are doing 50-60mph. It is pretty bad. Wouldn't bumbs or something similar stop this? Yes a bit of a pain, but it does work. Obviosuly day users, ie those attending the school or those at the top of Pine Grove will not support it, but then the speed doesn't effect them does it. It is a matter of time before a child gets killed. Isn't that more important?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on July 03, 2006, 10:57:26 am
According to this weekend's Telegraph Motoring section, Barnet council has removed the  speed bumps in their roads and accidents have now reduced, particularly for motor cyclists.  That columnist is running a campaign against road humps on the basis that they cause more accidents and ruin car suspensions.   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sharks on July 03, 2006, 12:39:22 pm
Just like to re-iterate a sentiment that has been expressed in the past - The school do take this sort of behaviour seriously and value the good relationship it has with the local community.  Although not fool proof, the school have a record of all number plates for cars being driven by their sixth formers, so are able to deal directly with the offending culprits. 

Rather than posting on brookmans.com , how about dropping and email to admin@chancellors.herts.sch.uk  and seeing if we can do something to change the behaviour of the small minority that spoil things.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 03, 2006, 06:22:01 pm
Interesting info from Barnet Bob. As you know I never was convinced about bumps. There is the nagging feeling though that some roads need SOMETHING just to remind people they are not at Silverstone.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 03, 2006, 06:27:28 pm
I am afraid Peppermint hits the nail on the head. If people think about what they are doing there should be no problem. We all make mistakes but if we all drive with some consideration of where we are, what the road can do and who else is at risk, signs, bumps etc are not  needed.

I really think this is the only hope which is why i am going for flashing signs-something to break into the consciousness of an absent minded driver. This is a village with some wide roads, not a racetrack.  I really would have hoped the recent tragic death on our roads has hit everyone and woken us all up.

If we really cant get this in our heads its bumps and chicanes, no fun for anyone, noise, cost, inconvenience, danger, bust cars etc etc. Do we want to drive like adults or not?-sorry its a hot day and this is a frustrating subject.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Max on July 03, 2006, 10:27:23 pm
How about a combination of flashing lights and speed cameras? Drawing people's attention to the fact they are driving too fast is a good idea, but why not make offenders dig into their pockets? They will be well motivated to remember the speed limits the next time.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on July 04, 2006, 08:41:21 am
Quote
why not make offenders dig into their pockets?
Maybe the money raised could be used to pay for a real PC.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 04, 2006, 09:24:12 am
Sorry John, that would be far too sensible.....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 04, 2006, 05:35:29 pm
Like most people very wary of speed cameras but one actually sited at the bridge on Bluebridge WOULD actually make the road safer. Of course the hope would be it would collect NO money at all so I am afraid we havent solved the PCSO problem after all.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2006, 06:57:47 pm

There is no way that a speed camera there WOULDN'T collect money! As I type this, another two cars have gone past at an extraordinarily high speed into the village.  Just the period between 6.30pm - 9.30pm would probably recoup the installation costs in the first few months!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Susan on July 04, 2006, 06:59:42 pm
I find it difficult to believe that someone voted that there isn’t a problem on Dixons Hill Road.

Cars speed along there all the time, and for any pedestrians it is really unpleasant. I often used to walk along the road to the shops with my children, but now tend to go the ridiculously short distance by car, as it is so dangerous and unpleasant.

Incidentally, a 30 mph speed limit means that 30 is the maximum, so going along at 25-30 is ok, not 30-35mph.

Is nobody else ever a pedestrian???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on July 04, 2006, 09:27:37 pm

I think the assumption is that BP residents will use their 1 vote to say what they think should be done in Bluebridge Road, and Welham Green residents will use their 1 vote to say what they think should be done in Dixons Hill Road. Of course this is not mandatory, so like you, I can only wonder who thinks there isn't a problem in DHR! I can only think that perhaps they don't live in either area, but just enjoy speeding through!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on July 06, 2006, 10:26:33 am
I still believe that a speed camera approaching the bridge on Bluebridge Road will sort out most of the speeding problems.

I understand why the flashing warning lights that come on if you are driving too fast are. in principle, a good idea, but unfortunately once people get used to seeing them the effect wears off whereas the camera that flashes has much more effect!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ADM on July 06, 2006, 02:16:54 pm
Agree entirely about flashing signs, Peppermint.

Complete waste of effort after the first two weeks.  I've even seen low-life scum trying to get the highest speed on one which 'shamed' you with a readout of your actual speed.

I'm anti-cameras on principle but they will work.  Well signed bumps are the best answer.  They won't damage your car if you slow down.  And more importantly, they will if you don't.

I do have a soft spot for the old RPG too.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shevans on July 08, 2006, 10:15:46 am
On hindsight I think I want to change my vote….

I thought flashing signs on Dixons Hill was a good idea…. but forgot about the local wildlife that will try and get a “high score” and I am sure they will!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on July 08, 2006, 11:14:24 am
On hindsight I think I want to change my vote….

I thought flashing signs on Dixons Hill was a good idea…. but forgot about the local wildlife that will try and get a “high score” and I am sure they will!


Hi shevans, 

Sorry, but it's not possible to change a vote once it's cast. The only way would be to either reset all votes to zero, but then all those who have voted would not be able to vote, or start again, which would need obtaining consent from everyone who has voted, and I have no idea who has.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shevans on July 08, 2006, 08:19:09 pm
I thought not, but no harm in asking. Thank you.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Neville Hobbs on July 08, 2006, 09:22:14 pm
I am convinced that speed humps similar to those in The Walk Potters Bar would solve the problem of speeding on any road. The bumps are most uncomfortable if you go over 30 mph and are easily tolerable at 30 or less as they are strategitally placed at a certain distance apart so that it is not worth trying to speed up in-between humps. I must admit that I like speed if I can get away with it but I never bother in The Walk as I do not want to damage my car -now there's an admission for you. :) Modern roads and cars encourage speeding.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ottoD on July 09, 2006, 12:50:51 pm
Rumble strips after the bridge on Bluebrige Lane to the top of the incline would make speeding along the road uncomfortable. The dreaded camera would be the only other solution.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: daisy on July 13, 2006, 11:09:46 am
Having read the pages about Tomer's death in the accident on Hawkshead Lane, less than a month ago( i thnk) I was saddened to see the speeds at which the parents were traveling to Chancellor's school in order to fetch their Year 7 children returning from PGL camp on Monday at approx 5:30.  (These are the parents who should understand deeply a child of similar age to theirs died recently)

Is this a "short term memory" problem or a deeply entrenched problem? When I drove this last week, I have tried to guage the age of the drivers who, in my opinion, are driving really dangerously. It is not the young as I would have expected! It is men and women of around 40 to 50 that have startled me and seemed to be unaware of safety.

My other thought was that people are telling themselves something which overrides their conscious thought. Possibly it is this: When I am not in such a tearing hurry I will drive safely and according to the rules of the road but right now because of my busy schedule I NEED to drive like this.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bluebell on July 29, 2006, 03:12:05 pm
I do not think that bumps are a good idea because the buses won't be able to get up and down Pine Grove very well.

I do think that maybe a police officer or even a police community support officer should come and see the speeding happening in Pine Grove in term time and during school hours because I have seen a few police cars come up Pine Grove once the school has already broken up for the day. So the police have missed the Sixth Formers who do speed up and down Pine Grove. I have heard many stories about Sixth Formers speeding up and down Pine Grove and have also heard of them racing each other. I have witnessed the Sixth Formers speeding up and down Pine Grove.
Yes, the school does have registration forms for Sixth Formers driving to and from school but some of them haven't even registered their cars with the school!

Maybe the council could put up a 30 MPH sign in Pine Grove to remind or emphasise that Pine Grove is actually a residential road and not just a through road to Chancellor's???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 29, 2006, 05:56:18 pm
As has already been stated before, the first step is to report the offending vehicle, date, time etc to the school.

Rather than generally moaning about let's see if that will have the desired effect.

Personally I don't want to see speed bumps or yet more road signs in the village.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bluebell on July 29, 2006, 10:09:51 pm
I live in Peplins Way and traffic is very heavy at school run times. However it's only for a couple of short periods each day - really I can't see it as a great issue even if I did have to drive all the way round.

How many speeding cars do you have in Peplins on average? In Pine Grove there are at least 8+ Sixth Formers speeding down Pine Grove each day! - this is not counting residents, staff and the parents. The reason I wanted to quote you on Peplins Way's traffic problem was to explain that we get continual traffic throughout the day; it doesn't stop after the children have been dropped off and it doesn't stop at 3:30 when the children go home. The teachers arrive at school from 7 o'clock onwards and then sports,drama activities etc generate further traffic later. The school rents out the gym for Potters Bar Gym Club. They also rent out the drama block on a Saturday for Stagecoach. This means that we only have one day off a week of traffic however sometimes the PTA organise a car boot sale on Sundays which opens its doors at 8 in the morning! At the moment (school holidays) lorries are travelling up and down Pine Grove faster than 30 MPH to and from the school. I'm stating the facts. I'm not moaning.

As has already been stated before, the first step is to report the offending vehicle, date, time etc to the school.
I know for a fact that your suggestion has been tried by several residents to no avail.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on July 29, 2006, 11:15:26 pm
In answer to Bluebells comments.   Was the school not already there when you moved into your house?   Most of us have to tolerate a certain amount of traffic passing our houses, sometimes at speed.      You should be grateful  that Pine Grove is a cul-de-sac and is generally only used during certain times of the day by the 'general public'.   You could live on Bluebridge Road and have a real reason for complaining.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 30, 2006, 10:32:01 am
Quote
I know for a fact that your suggestion has been tried by several residents to no avail.

But not by you I presume ?

I know one of the school governors and he assures me that the problem IS taken seriously by the school.

I'm sure if people keep complaining it will make the school more aware of the problem.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bluebell on July 30, 2006, 06:09:39 pm
To sasquartch: Why does it continue to happen even though the school takes it seriously?

We have complained to the school and the problem hasn't let up. It continues to happen. Other people continue to complain to the school about the speeding cars but this has not helped; it carries on happening.

I think it has been good that the Headmaster has put something in the Parent's Bulletin about traffic but maybe it should become permanent so the point comes across.

To peppermint: Yes, the school was already there when we moved into our house however the amount of traffic and speeding has increased in the 5 years we've been here.

The speeding on Pine Grove is a real reason to complain about because a child from the school might be killed as a result. Bluebridge Road is a main road from Brookmans Park to Potters Bar and is expected to have traffic. I agree that we should tolerate a certain amount of traffic passing our houses. However, when you move near to a school you would think that the traffic would be at the start and end of the school day. Not in between (which is mainly caused by Sixth Formers).
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on July 30, 2006, 08:00:12 pm
I understand your frustration but I don't think you can blame the school for the way that  individual students, parents or teachers drive once they are outside the gates.   As with every other road, people need to take responsibility for the way they drive.   Pine Grove is no different to any other road and if you believe that people will take more care around a school I think that you will find that it is generally people connected to any school that tend to drive and park with little consideration for local residents. I think that most of us have to admit that, at some time, we have driven or parked inconsiderately.

I would suspect that the reason there is more traffic that there was when you first moved in is that too many of these school age  teenagers are being bought cars by their doting parents, how else can they afford them?   And this is presumably prior to the gap year they will be having before they go to university for three years so that they can get a degree that will be of absolutely no use to them when they go for their jobs in bars, restaurants and supermarkets.   The sooner schools realise that the best advice they can give our children is to leave school at 16 (before they can pass their driving tests) and go to college to do an apprenticeship or get a real job with training.   I think you will find that they have a better chance of a future career that way than if they go onto the job market at 22 with nothing to offer the employer.   (Sorry about my little rant, its just a strong belief I have)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on July 30, 2006, 08:51:02 pm
Quote
You could live on Bluebridge Road and have a real reason for complaining.
Quote
The speeding on Pine Grove is a real reason to complain about because a child from the school might be killed as a result. Bluebridge Road is a main road from Brookmans Park to Potters Bar and is expected to have traffic.

There isn’t a competition between Bluebridge Road and Pine Grove about which has the worst speed problem. I haven’t visited Pine Grove during the school run, but judging from school runs I have seen, I can well believe that there are far too many examples of speeding and dangerous driving there. I live on Bluebridge Road and have seen people travel down it at a speed that is dangerous to themselves, let alone the residents. Both roads have a problem that needs to be dealt with. That’s all there is to it.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bluebell on July 30, 2006, 10:47:34 pm
Maybe the best would be to get the police more involved because the school can't really ban the Sixth Formers from driving to school can they? So maybe the best solution would be to report the vehicles to the police and leave it in their hands. I'm sure they could have a field day with the amount of tickets they could write from the events happening in Pine Grove!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 31, 2006, 08:36:25 am
I think you are right, proper policing is a help. As I understand the police/council view, regular speed traps are better value for money than say a speed camera, the latter not justified because there have not in fact been many accidents either in Pine Grove or Bluebridge although as John implies, it is only a matter of time if people keep driving as they are.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 31, 2006, 09:23:04 am
PC Jitu - if you are reading this, what is your opinion ?

Obviously we are in the school holidays so presumably the problem has temporaily gone away, however clearly something needs to be done.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on July 31, 2006, 11:23:04 am
This seems to be more of a traffic police responsibility rather than Jitu's.  Traffic PC Tony Welsh has been to Pine Grove I believe.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on July 31, 2006, 11:59:19 am
Dear All,

I have been reading this. I have also been liasing with one of the many residents of Pine Grove who has been in contact with the Chancellors School regarding the problem of speeding.

My view is that we first need to establish the scale of the problem. This can be done using a hand held radar.

I have asked the aforementioned resident to be present during the exercise. I would like to invite some of the readers as well to take part in this exercise. Any reader interested in taking part is requested to express their interest through this web site.

There are only two radars ( each costing approximately £5,000 ) which are used by various departments. I shall find out about its availability and advise the readers. If one is not available immediately, I shall at least make the traffic department aware.

Ideally, I would like Brookmans Park to have its own radar so that it can be accessed quickly and used on a regular basis. I shall be grateful to anyone who contacts me with a fund raising idea "without making it a political issue."

PC Jitu Dave
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: LongTallSally on July 31, 2006, 09:23:36 pm
Quote
"without making it a political issue."

What! As the only two things I was going to comment on were 1. police resources and 2. money, I assume these are going to be construed as political points.

Therefore I say nothing and just continue paying the bills.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on July 31, 2006, 09:26:15 pm
I was going to make a remark about "Comunity Thought Police" but decided it would be better not to.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on July 31, 2006, 10:44:52 pm
I think that all PC Jitu Dave is trying to say is lets be proactive.  Rather that complaining about the same old things what do we really want here?  If it is to sort out the speeding problems in Pine Grove he has asked that people contact him.
If it is to complain about the state of the system of policing in this country please dont use his suggestion as a platform for complaining, after all, he is only an employee trying the best to do his job!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on August 01, 2006, 08:32:32 am
Dear All,

I have spoken to an officer in the traffic department regarding the issue of speeding in Pine Grove and also in Bluebridge Road. I have also managed to borrow a 'survey only' speed gun from the traffic Management Unit for a couple of days. If anyone is interested in taking part in the survey, kindly contact me.

I am grateful to everyone for their views. Please continue to express them. Hopefully, through debate and discussion, we will be able to come to a lasting solution.

Regards.

PC Jitu Davé
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bluebell on August 01, 2006, 09:36:11 am
When are the couple of days when we can use the speed gun? Is it during term time? At present the traffic is sporadic. How would you carry out this test? Would it be in an unmarked car so the drivers don't realise what's going on, because if the drivers see what you are doing they will invariably slow down which will skew the results.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on August 01, 2006, 09:56:18 am
Dear All,

The 'survey' will be done for three afternoons starting from today; from 2pm today and 4pm tomorrow and Thursday. I am happy to change the time for Thursday. Although the traffic will be sporadic, it will give us some idea of the speed vehicles are driven at.

During the next term time I shall try to arrange a further such exercise.

I shall park my car away from the location of the survey.

PC Jitu Davé
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on August 01, 2006, 01:00:57 pm
Firstly, well done Jitu for being proactive and organising equipment to objectively measure the problem.

Secondly, it will be interesting to see what the scale of the problem is outside of school time, if a large number of speeding cars are found at Pine Grove then it's a general problem rather than something specific to the school.

It will also be interesting to see what happens in Bluebridge road as I believe that is a worse problem.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on August 07, 2006, 04:02:43 pm
Dear All,

Between 1st and 3rd August 2006, I carried out a traffic survey in Pine Grove and Bluebridge Road. Pine Grove was done in the afternoon on Tuesday 1st August and Bluebridge Road was done in the afternoon on Wednesday 2nd August and in the morning on Thursday 3rd August.

The survey in Bluebridge Road was done at the junction of Bradmore Green, Bluebridge Avenue on 2nd August and at the junction of The Gardens on 3rd August.

A total of 330 vehicles of all types were checked for their speeds. 50 vehicles were surveyed in either direction in Pine Grove where a resident was present for a considerable amount of time during this survey. I had the company of residents and curious passersby during the survey in Bluebridge Road.

6 out of 50 vehicles in Pine Grove were driven at speeds of between 35 and 40 mph. It would be safe to say that very few vehicles were driven by students as the school has been closed for summer vacation. I did visit Pine Grove the following day at 4.30 pm and 9am the day after, but there was not much traffic at that time.

Vehicles coming into and going out of Brookmans Park through Bluebridge Road were surveyed. A total of 280 vehicles of all types were checked: 125 leaving and 155 entering Brookmans Park. 105 of them (41 vehicles leaving and 64 vehicles entering Brookmans Park) were driven at speeds ranging from 35 to 54 mph;  74 vehicles were driven at speeds of between 35 mph and 40 mph. 31 vehicles were driven in excess of 40 mph. The top speed was 54 mph.

I observed that people regardless of their social or marital status, colour, cast, creed, gender or age group drove at speed. Visitors, residents, business people; mums and dads with and without children on board their vehicles drove at speed. Following my observation for three days, I was able to refute a resident's claim that only young people drove fast as I had seen older people exceed the speed limit. Some people slowed down on seeing me; some did not even notice my presence in uniform and some carried on despite seeing me. Some people realised too late that I was present there because they were driving so fast. Some people were concerned at my presence, some others appreciated it. Some people were relieved that they were not caught speeding and some were apologetic.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

The important message for people who feel they have an excuse to exceed the speed limit is that they do not have an excuse because it is not worth it. People who allow ample time for their journey do not find it necessary drive at speed.

Regards.

PC Jitu Davé
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on August 07, 2006, 05:58:57 pm
Great to see some empirical evidence for the speeding we knew was happening. I suspect that on most days, when there isn’t a uniformed policeman holding a speed gun, there would be an even higher rate of speeding. Where do we take this from here?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Cassie on August 07, 2006, 06:51:09 pm
It would be interesting to see the results once school starts again.

I also wonder how many of those motorists were using their mobile phone ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Susan on August 07, 2006, 07:29:41 pm
Thank you very much for going to all that trouble. I certainly found the information interesting, particularly the bit about the type of people who speed – all types of people :)

Over a third of people were speeding – most of them no doubt locals. In fact, 35 mph was taken as exceeding the speed limit. At 30 mph (the legal speed limit), the percentage would be much higher.

On that basis, a third of people reading this forum no doubt speed.

They do it because they can get away with it. It’s nothing to do with being in a hurry. People just speed because they won’t be caught.

It’s not just a problem in Brookmans Park – it’s a nationwide problem, because people don’t take speeding seriously.

Can a similar exercise be done in Dixons Hill Road, to get some evidence? (I think that’s another PC’s jurisdiction?) I walked down there every day last week with my two children, and couldn’t believe the speeds.

As John mentioned, what can be done?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mungroo on August 08, 2006, 10:48:04 am
I agree with Susan - people just speed because they can get away with it. It's also easier to speed in a modern car as it picks up speed more easily, is quieter, has better handling and has shorter stopping distances. Before you know it, you are doing 40/50 and it doesn't even feel like it !
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 09, 2006, 11:02:23 pm
Dear all,

I have merged the various speeding threads following PC Jitu Dave's survey of traffic speeds along Pine Grove and Bluebridge Road, earlier this week. I've left the original titles of each thread so that people know what each correspondent was referring to.

I've also created a news item from PC Dave's findings so that the details don't get lost in the forum thread.

Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/august06/speedingsurvey.shtml) for the item.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ADM on August 10, 2006, 09:15:36 am
Dave,

Where do you get 'more than 44% of motorists driving along Bluebridge Road were breaking the law' from?  I make it a bit less than that from the figures quoted by Jitu.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 10, 2006, 10:04:33 am
Thanks ADM,

I think you are right. I was never very good at sums. It's 37.5%, isn't it.

Thanks for pointing it out. I will correct the story.

Dave
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Grant Shapps MP on September 23, 2006, 11:37:43 pm
Hi all,

I thought Brookmans Park residents might appreciate knowing that following a fair amount of lobbying some additional measures are due to be undertaken to highlight the 30mph speed limit on Bluebridge Road.

Before you get too excited, this isn't going to change the world and it won't be done overnight either. However the County Council (who are responsible for our roads) have agreed to my request to at least start to address the speed issue with some additional markings.

Here's the response that I've just received on the subject.

Yours,
Grant Shapps MP

(http://www.shapps.com/images/bluebridge.gif)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 24, 2006, 07:49:25 am
Thanks for that Grant. I have merged the post with the existing discussion on speeding in the village so that all posts on this issue are kept together.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on September 24, 2006, 09:47:11 am
Good news that the County are looking to do something in the New Year on Bluebridge Road.

However, the impression I get from people living there longer than I have known the road is that nothing has happened before and they have some disbelief.

I note also that in June 2000 the road was "re-ranked" by the County but still nothing happened.

I realise there are limited resources but we do have a problem on this road as well as Dixons Hill Road and I would suggest Station Road in Welham Green which appears not to attract attention from County because somehow no bad accidents have actually happened yet-YET.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on September 27, 2006, 09:46:33 pm
Is there any evidence that painting Slow in big letters on the road will have any effect? This seems like a waste of time and money.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on September 28, 2006, 09:43:54 am
I am very tempted to play Devil's Advocate to one of your very construtive and typically positive responses John . Sadly, I lack both the wit and humour.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on September 28, 2006, 10:07:04 am
ouch ..." out bantered" yet again !
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 28, 2006, 11:48:06 am
Should ( a big 'should'!) the police stop you for speeding then yet another warning sign would give you no chance of pleading ignorance of the speed limit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on September 28, 2006, 02:17:08 pm
Claiming ignorance of the speed limit might not be a good idea as it could leave you open to a charge of Driving Without Due Care and Attention, which has a 3 to 9 point penalty. I’m not sure if they could still hold you to the speeding charge and stick another three points on your license, but I bet they could.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jo Wakelen on November 02, 2006, 11:53:08 am
Hello everyone.

As some residents of Brookmans Park will be aware, yesterday evening myself and other officers from Hatfield Community Team conducted a traffic control on Bluebridge Road.

Many cars were pulled into Bluebridge Avenue and the drivers spoken to.  The reason for this control was that many drivers (not necessarily from Brookmans Park I hasten to add) have been seen speeding down the road, using mobiles, driving without seatbelts, driving with front foglights on etc.

It was felt that a control would hopefully bring to people's attention that these are offences which are ticketable.

A number of drivers were given verbal advice, however there was also a large number who were given fines.

The law as it stands states that you cannot use a mobile other than on a handsfree kit whilst driving your vehicle.  This includes no texting or  having your mobile in your hand even if it switched off.  Currently the fine is £30.  It is also illegal to drive your car without wearing a safety belt.  The only people exempt from this law are those who have a medical certificate from their doctor stating why they can't weat a safetybelt and taxi drivers whilst they are carrying passengers.  Again this fine currently stands at £30.

There were also a number of drivers spoken to regarding faulty lights on their cars.  The nights are now drawing in quickly and it is very difficult to see cars with only one headlight working.

This was the first of many controls that are going to take place in Brookmans Park and surrounding areas.

Many thanks

Jo
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: trade on November 02, 2006, 12:56:31 pm
What a good idea!

The support to encourage safe driving is much appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on November 02, 2006, 01:27:48 pm

That is fantastic news! Hopefully it will encourage lower speeds and safer driving through our village.

Thank you Jo.

 :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on November 02, 2006, 02:06:32 pm
When I was finishing my run at about 7.40 last night I turned into our road (B'B Ave) and was confronted with about 4 police cars and several officers. It was a bit of a shock ! .
.. but how pleasing it was to see that they were there to try and enforce road safety.
We all know that some drivers go along BB Road at excessive and dangerous speeds ( I would estimate 50-60 mph is not un-heard of) . When walking to the Station in the morning a white van passes me heading into the Village ( and the leaving in the direction of Welham Green) at at least 70 mph .. 06.00-06.03 ...every day.

Any deterrent should be applauded.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on November 02, 2006, 06:39:58 pm
That is great stuff Jo. when i heard that a speed camera there was not thought worthwhile financially but that extra police controls would be used I was doubtful but if this is to be repeated regularly it sounds like it could work. People have been complaining about speeding in particular along BB road for years on this site.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 02, 2006, 09:49:18 pm
Hi Jo,

Good to see action being taken. Thanks for the update.

I've merged this with an existing thread on this issue in order to keep all discussions together.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: LongTallSally on November 03, 2006, 07:42:20 am
Thank you.

Hopefully, now the roads will be safer for evryone.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 11, 2006, 08:08:49 pm
Good to see the police out in force on Bluebridge Road this evening stopping those motorists who...


Looking forward to Jo's report on the night's proceedings. Let's hope those who regularly break the speed limit, or drive while gabbing on the mobile, get what they deserve.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on November 11, 2006, 08:19:05 pm
Yes it was great to seem them there again and to meet Jo and her colleagues and to chat to them for a few minutes. In the little time I was there I saw them stop several drivers, one of which (judging by how late it hit the breaks) managed not to see a police car and four uniformed offices.

Thanks again Jo and the rest. Hopefully we'll be seeing a lot more of you.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on November 12, 2006, 08:55:47 am

Many thanks to Jo and her team, you're doing a great job!

 :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 02, 2007, 01:00:09 pm
Re: the SLOW sign on Bluebridge Road. It's now April and no sign of any sign. Did TPTB come to their senses on how pointless it would be, or is it just another example of how useless they are?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: values on August 12, 2007, 07:10:58 am
Anyone hear the Grand Prix along Moffats Lane late last night?!!!

Editor's note:  Hi Values, I have merged this with an existing thread about speeding on local roads.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Carrie on August 14, 2007, 02:41:09 pm
hear it?  I thought it was being taken part in the my living room.  Am getting a tad fed up with the high speed, and obviously, modified, cars going through BP at such a late night. Don't get me wrong - I'm only a mere "babe" myself but was brought up to respect a residential area.  On Sat night I had someone conducting a very personal 'phone call outside my flat which, yes was highly interesting (!) but at the same time - IT WAS MIDNIGHT AND I WAS UNWELL!  Thank goodness for earplugs.....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jo Wakelen on August 16, 2007, 06:58:20 pm
hear it?  I thought it was being taken part in the my living room.  Am getting a tad fed up with the high speed, and obviously, modified, cars going through BP at such a late night. Don't get me wrong - I'm only a mere "babe" myself but was brought up to respect a residential area.  On Sat night I had someone conducting a very personal 'phone call outside my flat which, yes was highly interesting (!) but at the same time - IT WAS MIDNIGHT AND I WAS UNWELL!  Thank goodness for earplugs.....

Hi folks,
Please can you make us aware of this at the time as well as placing this sort of problem on the website.

Myself and my colleagues are regularly conducting speeding checks and fines and points are being issued accordingly. 

Previously we have just given people advice and warnings about their speed etc, but it has now become such a problem that we have resorted to fines and points.

We are very interested in any problems you as a community are suffering and will act accordingly to your complaints.

Many thanks
Jo
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 27, 2007, 12:05:28 pm
Just had to dodge a speeding black BMW open-top racing up Moffats which took the corner from Bluebridge on the wrong side of the road and narrowly missed a parked car and me. A child might not have been as lucky. I am passing the registration number on to PC Jo Wakelen to keep an eye on the driver.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on September 04, 2007, 09:41:45 pm
Our poor cat has been mown down by a speeding driver in Bluebridge Road - the heartless b******* didn't even stop! He or she must have known they had hit an animal, the noise alone was enough to bring a couple of neighbours to the windows! How can anybody have such a disregard for a life?

When are we going to have something done about the speeding along here? Does nobody care that some of these b********s are doing upwards of 50mph?

As for the driver, I hope something very nasty happens to you, very soon!!!!!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 04, 2007, 10:06:21 pm
Dear Mermaid,

Sorry to hear about your cat. I know it's not the first you have lost on Bluebridge, in fact I think it's the third.

Why oh why do we have to wait for a human fatality before the powers that be realise that people speed along that road and calming measures are a MUST.

My wife has been overtaken coming into the village several times by mindless idiots who feel they are above the law.

If PC Jo Wakelen reads this, is there anything that can be done before it's too late?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on September 05, 2007, 09:26:37 am
I'm really sorry to hear about your cat Mermaid.   :(


I agree that something needs to be done about the speeding along there.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on September 05, 2007, 10:04:15 am
Dear all,

Has any work been done as promised by the Mid West Area Office, St. Albans, of the Welwyn Hatfield Council? If not, then they should be reminded about their promice to carry out the Traffic Calming work along Bluebridge Road. Their letter is attached with Grant SHAPPS' posting dated 23rd September 2006. The letter states that the work would be carried out in the Financial year beginning April 2007 if not completed earlier. It is nearly a year since their promice.

When I carried out the speed survey along Bluebridge Road last year, I felt that Bluebridge Road is too wide for a residential area of this small village. Also, there is a downward slope on approach to the village i.e. Bradmore Green. Narrowing of the road and construction of islands in the centre of the road at junctions along this road seems to me to be an effective solution. People will drive slowly if te road is narrowed.

Regards.

Jitu DAVÉ
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Strad on September 05, 2007, 10:37:10 am
I find the comment by Jitu DAVÉ interesting:-

"Narrowing of the road and construction of islands in the centre of the road at junctions along this road seems to me to be an effective solution. People will drive slowly if te road is narrowed"

Dixons Hill Road has been narrowed with the use of traffic islands and road markings. The net effect of this seem to be that drivers having got used to the changes, still speed along the road but closer to the pavements. So I am not convinced about the effectiveness of road narrowing.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on September 05, 2007, 11:54:53 am
Hi all,

The point I am making is that something needs to be done to discourage people from driving at speed.

Perhaps Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council can update the residents of Brookmans Park on its promised traffic calming measure, if it is not carried out already.

Regards.

Jitu DAVÉ
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bobb on September 05, 2007, 12:10:07 pm
Dear Mermaid, I am sorry to hear about your cat. It is a terrible thing to loose a pet.

About 7.30am last saturday morning I was crossing Bluebridge Rd to go in to Bluebridge Ave with my 11 mth old daughter in a pram and dog in tow when a car came round the bend travelling at least 50mph. I had to dash the last 5 feet to the curb and he had to swerve. Then the max-power b*****d had the cheek to hoot at me. This could have been a very serious incident.

If the council and the police can do nothing about this serious situation perhaps we should take direct action as residents. I would be quite happy to give up the odd evening or Saturday afternoon to stand by the road-side in a yellow jacket taking down the number plates of speeding motorists to pass to Jo. Either that or we park our cars on the road to effectively narrow the road as suggested by PC Jitu.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on September 05, 2007, 01:13:30 pm
One way to deal with the problem would be to create our own calming system. Two strategically parked cars (or skips) could create a chicane, forcing cars to slow on their approach. As there are no parking restrictions on the road south of the URC, I don't see how this would not be legal.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on September 05, 2007, 03:37:17 pm
Thank you to all those people who have sent me nice messages on and off the forum, there are some lovely people out there     :)

I was dismayed to read Bobb's post about his experience at the weekend, what a nasty shock and thank goodness you all got across in one piece Bobb!

To answer both Bobb and John - I am also definitely up for some direct action, as indeed are a couple of neighbours of mine. If Jo Wakelen is able to use information about speeding drivers and get something done about it, we will happily stand outside and collect the info. Perhaps we could hire some speed guns to collect the evidence. (The trouble with the police doing this is that they can only come along every so often with their speed trap, then the drivers are alll flashing each other with warnings. Result? - only a very small percentage of the habitual speeders actually get caught and it's all back to the speeding when the police have gone!).

Secondly, the idea about creating a chicane using residents' cars is a good one and I am very happy to use my car, but I cannot park outside my own house (too near the corner), so I would have to intrude on someone else's patch. It's a shame that some residents of Bluebridge Road have taken to parking their vehicles on the pavement, so as to leave the road clear, just parking on the road would help. Various contractors also park on the pavements rather than the road, thus reinforcing the impression that BB Road is a speedway. I'm sure that parking on the pavement is not allowed, but I never see these people being asked to move, by residents or police.

Thirdly, I agree with Jitu Dave that the council ought to be chased up, but whose responsibility is it to do this, is it the parish council? Bob Horrocks, Peter Hastings, do you know?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 05, 2007, 04:17:33 pm
When I lived in The Gardens in the mid 1980s we had a cat run over on Bluebridge Road, so nothing new there.  Sorry Mermaid to hear of your losses.

The next Parish Council meeting is 26th Sept when I will raise this subject of speeding.  Thanks Jitu for the reminder.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 05, 2007, 05:02:33 pm

I am also definitely up for some direct action, as indeed are a couple of neighbours of mine. If Jo Wakelen is able to use information about speeding drivers and get something done about it, we will happily stand outside and collect the info. Perhaps we could hire some speed guns to collect the evidence.



I wonder what the legal position would be if a few of us took it in turns to monitor the speed of vehicles on Bluebridge using speed guns.  They cost about £200 each, but we'd only need one which could be shared on a shift basis.  Click here  (http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/velocity_speed_gun.asp?gclid=CPnzqtvXrI4CFRAFEgodZGJEaQ) for more on the speed gun.

I guess our evidence wouldn't stand up in a court of law, but if we took down the numbers of the vehicles of offending drivers and sent them on to Jo, along with the speed they were travelling, at least she could then have a quiet word.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC Jitu Davé on September 05, 2007, 05:16:26 pm
Hi all,

Any solution we seek has to be a long term one to deal with this problem.

Jitu DAVÉ
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 05, 2007, 05:43:37 pm
I guess it would also be risky for local residents to start taking numbers, a speeding driver could become confrontational.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on September 05, 2007, 05:54:32 pm

Yes, they might, but there will be a group of people monitoring .....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on September 05, 2007, 06:14:47 pm
About 100 posts ago in this thread :), I did link to a BBC News online story where this had happened, so it looks like, with the support of the local police, it is possible:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 05, 2007, 06:23:37 pm
I see that the village mentioned in that report, Ringmer, has a website (http://www.ringmer.info/). I have mailed the webmaster to find out what happened after the BBC News Online story.

I have also signed up for their forum and posted there in the hope of getting some tips. Click here (http://www.topfreeforum.com/ringvilla/viewtopic.php?p=118&mforum=ringvilla#118).

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on September 05, 2007, 08:42:48 pm

That's great Dave! and thanks to James for bringing that link up again, I must have missed that first time around.

Starting tomorrow, If I see vehicles parked on the pavement in BB Road, I'm going to ask the drivers (politely) to move the vehicle onto the road. (If they won't, I'm going to take a photo of it in situ - to include the registration number - and pass it onto Jo Wakelen to have a quiet word). This should:
a) help to create a 'chicane' so that BB Road doesn't look invitingly like a race track, and
b) help pedestrians like my blind neighbour who has terrible difficulty walking down to the village if there is a van parked on the pavement!


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on September 05, 2007, 10:03:05 pm
There are but a few offences in law which demand corroboration and speeding is one of them. (There are exceptions to this for temporary speed limits and motorways etc but none of this affects the road in BP). Consequently a member of the public pointing a speed gun at another member of the public and recording their speed - without more - won’t convict. Unless you give sworn evidence in court and convince the bench that you are able to in some way substantiate the speed recording obtained then you are not going to add many points to many licences.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on September 06, 2007, 09:08:39 am
Speaking for myself, I'm not looking to get convictions (that's down to the police), I just want to get the speeding drivers to slow down to the legal speed through our village! As part of a campaign for help to get this to happen, the more evidence I can gather about the current levels of unacceptable speeding, the better.

Therefore, I shall be very interested to see what Dave finds out from Ringmer, and I am more than happy to personally fund the purchase of a speed gun.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 06, 2007, 10:03:10 am
Further to Mermaid's point about parking on the pavement - it is illegal.   But from past experience it needs to be recorded by two independent witnesses, not related so a husband and wife or mother and child are not independent.  A photo might help!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 06, 2007, 10:18:19 am
Further to Mermaid's point about parking on the pavement - it is illegal.   But from past experience it needs to be recorded by two independent witnesses, not related so a husband and wife or mother and child are not independent.  A photo might help!

Come on Bob, we all know pavements are there for drivers to park their cars so they don't get damaged by other vehicles.

 ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 09, 2007, 06:18:16 am
Interesting piece in the Times today about proposed measures to deal with speeding motorists.

Quote
Motorists face being banned from driving for only two speeding offences under a government plan to double the fixed penalty for exceeding the limit by a wide margin, The Times has learnt.

Those caught driving at 45mph or above in a 30mph limit are likely to receive a higher-rate fixed penalty of six points and a £100 fine, up from the existing flat rate of three points and a £60 fine.

Ministers want to send the message that excessive speeding will lead more quickly to an automatic six-month driving ban for totting up 12 points within three years.

More than 1.1 million drivers have six or more points on their licences and, under the new law, could be banned immediately for one more offence.


More at The Times Online  (http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article2836449.ece) and the story is also on BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7086290.stm).

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on January 26, 2008, 10:16:19 am
An observation from a new BP resident/forum member: I've noticed there's been plenty of discussion over the years about speeding on Bluebridge Road, but how about the problem on Georges Wood Road and Mymms Drive?

I'm out pounding the pavement a couple of times a day with my daughter and I think these two roads are the most dangerous for pedestrians, both because of the lack of pavements and because of how recklessly fast motorists go here. It doesn't help that the roads are often lined with tradesmens' vans, which block sight lines and funnel everyone into the middle of the road.

I suppose it's too costly for the speed humps on Brookmans Avenue to be extended down Georges Wood Road and Mymms Drive. I wonder, though, if PC Wakelen and her team would consider conducting speeding checks here? It would certainly make us pedestrians - and I've noticed there are lots of us, including students at Chancellor's School, parents with young children, and people out walking their dogs - feel a great deal safer if motorists could be encouraged to travel at the speed limit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on January 26, 2008, 10:31:18 am
Both Georges Wood Road and Mymms Drive are unadopted roads, ie maintained by the residents not the local authority. The cost of speed bumps or other traffic calming measures would be down to the residents of those roads, as indeed the cost of the humps in Brookmans Avenue were paid for by those residents.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on January 26, 2008, 11:18:12 am
Thanks, Ferdie. Do you have any idea how the residents of Brookmans Avenue organised themselves to pay for and install the speed humps? It would also be interesting to know how much the work cost.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: hilarycarlen on January 26, 2008, 02:25:04 pm
Never mind who owns the road - if money'll buy it, put me down for a hundred quid toward humps on Bluebridge Road.....  I'd even come and mix the concrete.   Or if humps aren't acceptable because of the buses, then a speed camera... 

Have had two cats killed by cars on Bluebridge, both at the same spot, near the gate into Gobions.  It haunts me that next time it may be a kid, or some elderly dogwalker crossing at dusk... 

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on January 26, 2008, 05:46:02 pm
Bluebridge Road is adopted, so maintenance or decision to install calming (and payment for) would be via (I believe) the county council (and ultimately all of us via our taxes). I have sent an IM to AnneK re her question. Decisions on expenditure on unadopted roads is down to the residents who contribute to a road fund. As a public highway, both adopted and unadopted roads can and are policed the same so decisions on speed traps etc will ultimately lie with the Police. I'm sure PC Jo Wakelen may have influence here.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on January 26, 2008, 09:15:17 pm
Have had two cats killed by cars on Bluebridge, both at the same spot, near the gate into Gobions.

Were your cats killed due to speed or some other factor? Were your cats on the highway?

What if a meandering cat caused a car to swerve and mount the kerb and kill a child?









Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: stevea on January 27, 2008, 03:17:42 am
NightLondon - I can see where you're coming from - but give the lady a break.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: hilarycarlen on January 27, 2008, 08:56:24 am
I didn't observe the precise circumstances, Nightlondon, though I feel (elementary dear Watson?) that it is more than likely that the massive head injuries observed on both cats, when found dead by the side of the road, were caused by collisions with cars, (rather than, say, the cats being beaten over the head with a cricket bat by the child walking down the pavement or felled by a passing meteorite.)

I cannot of course rule out the possibilities that the cat was on the pavement rather than the highway and that a driver swerved onto the pavement for the purpose of killing the meandering cat, or even to avoid hitting a blithe child crossing the road.  So many possibilities, so little time to think of them all.

However, if there had been speed bumps, the meandering cat or blithe child could either of them cross the highway or walk on the pavement, and the car on the road would slow down and  wouldn't have to swerve or kill either of them.   I rest my case.

Give us all a break, Nightlondon.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on January 27, 2008, 11:27:40 am
Just a thought - and perhaps this isn't the right forum for this - but couldn't we start a page on Brookmans.com where residents could list the plate numbers of motorists who are driving at excessive speed through the village? Though I think some of the drivers I've seen speeding and clipping the kerb know perfectly well what they're doing, many might not be aware that they're going fast enough to really frighten pedestrians. This would be a good way of bringing it home to them without naming or confronting them.

As for the drivers who are aware of how quickly they're going, and don't care, I'm not sure anything other than a police caution or a fine will get through to them. I certainly wouldn't want to waste my time trying.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on January 27, 2008, 12:19:10 pm
It's a very nice idea AnneK (page on the website with numberplates of speeding drivers), but it would be against the rules of the website and forum, particularly in the area of defamation. Although the speeding drivers wouldn't be named as such, the numberplates would be enough to identify them locally and, of course, to the Police. Also, how would one prove that they were speeding?

The Editor and his team (myself included) are brave people  but we wouldn't want to be sued for defamation and lose our houses!!!

Mermaid

ps We live in Bluebridge Road and my husband favours the 'gun turret option' 

 ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on January 27, 2008, 06:56:02 pm
Ah, a gun turret . . . an excellent idea. I wonder if the local planning officer would have any objection if we built one in our front garden? Maybe if we used old bricks and obscured it with honeysuckle and climbing roses . . .  ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on January 27, 2008, 09:34:37 pm
Hilarycarlen - Sorry to hear about your cats.   You dont seem to have a lot of luck with your animals.

I think that speed humps would be the most effective way of  slowing down the traffic on Bluebridge Road  but as for whether they would help to reduce the chance of cats getting run over, I think it is unlikely.

If a cat decides to dart under the wheels of a car regardless of what speed the car is driving the cat will probably be killed.

Perhaps you should buy a goldfish.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: hilarycarlen on January 27, 2008, 11:17:37 pm
Thank you, Peppermint!

Point taken, and cats are profoundly perverse, so I'm not discounting the possibility of a moggy, (perhaps determined to make a point about this nine lives nonsense?) committing suicide under the wheels of a slow car edging its way over a roadbump. 

Generally speaking, though, I would imagine that the same factors are in play for all all parties to potential traffic related collisions - whether human or animal - more speed equals less time for either party to take evading action, and also more chance that a collision will be fatal.    Anyway, the nub of my concern re Bluebridge is the thought of a child going the same way as my cats, and there is certainly plenty of evidence re speed and child road deaths.

(As an aside, thank you for the comment about my luck with animals.  It made me take stock in the face of recent griefs, and realise that actually I've been really REALLY lucky with my animals - it's rotten when they come to an untimely end, but in 50 odd years of keeping pets, there has only been one - a monumentally cantakerous house-rabbit - who did not give me infinitely more joy than grief.   The stats aren't quite that good with my human friends, though I've been pretty lucky there, too.)  (Walt Whitman was right about animals.  I think I will start a thread about favorite poems now and forget about Bluebridge road, travellers, foxes etc.)

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mark_Eric on January 28, 2008, 09:14:36 am
Speed bumps are bad for the environment, bad for your car, look ugly, are noisy for the people who have a bump put directly outside their house and just spoil the whole feel of a road.

Speeding may be a problem but speed humps are not the answer.

The most dangerous thing on Bluebridge Road is when people park their cars, quite legally, in the road just as you go around the bend, before the church. It is a blind spot and could do with yellow lines.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 28, 2008, 10:22:15 am
Interesting that this is the most replied to topic in this forum with 400 posts. The thread has been read almost 32,000 times and later this week it will have been running for five years.  Clearly an issue that concerns locals.

The authorities know about the problem and the police have been carrying out random speed checks. We were once told that until it is seen as a danger spot, which seemed to mean there needed to be a fatality, nothing would be done.

However, we were promised some form of calming 14 months ago, although nothing has happened yet. Perhaps they are planning to paint the warning markings on the road soon?


Hi all,

I thought Brookmans Park residents might appreciate knowing that following a fair amount of lobbying some additional measures are due to be undertaken to highlight the 30mph speed limit on Bluebridge Road.

Before you get too excited, this isn't going to change the world and it won't be done overnight either. However the County Council (who are responsible for our roads) have agreed to my request to at least start to address the speed issue with some additional markings.

Here's the response that I've just received on the subject.

Yours,
Grant Shapps MP

(http://www.shapps.com/images/bluebridge.gif)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: hilarycarlen on January 28, 2008, 01:38:00 pm
Speeding cars are bad for the environment, bad for people, look scary, are noisy for the people who have them whizz by directly outside their house and just spoil the whole feel of a road.

Speed bumps may be a problem but allowing speeding is not the answer.

PS - But I agree about the yellow lines at the bend!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mark_Eric on January 29, 2008, 05:16:41 pm
Good one hilarycarlen!

Up to a point I agree. (Although exactly what constitutes speeding is open for debate. Most speed limits are not sensible or realistic. Few people can honestly say they never go over the speed limit. Driving 40mph down Bluebridge road is hardly more scary, noisy or bad for the environment than doing 30mph. Most cars are more efficient at 50mph!

Putting in measures to stop a problem that causes similar problems. Not the best idea! There must be another way.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mary_Morgan on January 29, 2008, 06:08:14 pm
Few people can honestly say they never go over the speed limit. Driving 40mph down Bluebridge road is hardly more scary, noisy or bad for the environment than doing 30mph. Most cars are more efficient at 50mph!

I am one who can honestly say that the last time I drove along Bluebridge Road I suspect I was not strictly within the speed limit.  But I should have been.  There must be some government stats on the likely damage/possibility of death to a human (sorry small animals are going to get killed whatever the speed) in relation to 30mph, 40mph and 50mph.    I cannot really see the relevance of more efficiency at 50mph, except as to the cost of fuel to the driver - surely not relevant in the case of possible deaths.

Above said, I do not know the answer - humps, red tarmac with large white road markings, chicanes all have their drawbacks.

And in the long run something is going to have to happen before the county highway authority does anything.

Still think it was a shame they took the hump out of the bridge.

Mary
From a country that has probably one of the worst death rates in the world (most from speeding), but also who lived on BBR from the age of 2 to 21 - of course there were not many cars around in those days  ;) - parking on the road was never seen.

(Editor's Note: Edited only to remove the yellow text from an (almost) yellow background (so we can read it) and to insert a link to the quote used in the post. If you want to quote other posts in your reply use the quote button - click here (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php?topic=1606.0) to find out how.)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 29, 2008, 06:21:13 pm
The correct supervision of furry things and small persons would reduce road deaths.
The reason people speed up certain roads is because they are so frustrated by traffic jams, silly signs etc etc that they put their foot down as soon as they have a clear road.
Most offenders live in BP, but its everyone else of course is it not.
As for the old hump back bridge it was the best natural calming thing and I cannot see any reason why it was flattened.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on January 30, 2008, 12:12:58 pm
Although generally in agreement with JET' comments here, when I lived in The Gardens 20+ years ago one of my cats was run over on Bluebridge Road.  When I moved to my present address the other cat was run over!

How can you supervise furry things like cats unless you keep them indoors?  That would be cruel.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 30, 2008, 12:45:18 pm
Just a thought, but when I was out taking the picture below for the site a few years ago, two passing motorists slowed down noticeably when they saw me pointing a small digital camera down Bluebridge Road.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/june06/bluebridge250.jpg)

How about a couple of volunteers sitting in deckchairs with yellow jackets on, a digital camera on a tripod (no need to use it), a flask of tea (or something slightly stronger) and just watching the world go by.

I'll happily supply the tripod and the 'something stronger' bit.

 :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on January 30, 2008, 02:26:52 pm

Most speed limits are not sensible or realistic. Few people can honestly say they never go over the speed limit. Driving 40mph down Bluebridge road is hardly more scary, noisy or bad for the environment than doing 30mph. Most cars are more efficient at 50mph!


The above is exactly the kind of attitude which is typical of many speeding drivers! The law says 30mph, but no, they know better, far better, the law is an ass and deserves to be ignored, 40mph is perfectly OK. In fact, they are such good drivers and have such good cars that they DESERVE to go as fast as they like, when they like and where they like!

Well I have news for you Mark Eric, driving at 40mph in a 30mph limit is AGAINST THE LAW, like it or not, and that includes Bluebridge Road. Those of us who live in Bluebridge Road do not like being made to feel that we are living beside a race track! Don't patronise us by airily dismissing 40mph as 'hardly more scary or noisy' than 30mph, try telling that to my elderly neighbour who was run over by a speeding driver on Bluebridge Road and had to spend quite a few weeks in hospital! Try telling that to my son, who was scared out of his wits by a speeding car as he was crossing Bluebridge Road!

It is simply not acceptable to portray speeding as thoroughly understandable and reasonable, especially when it affects people in the local community.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on January 30, 2008, 03:59:18 pm
Driving 40mph down Bluebridge road is hardly more scary, noisy or bad for the environment than doing 30mph. Most cars are more efficient at 50mph!

Environmental issues a side, the department for transport's own figures say that if you hit an adult pedestrian while driving at 30mph, the survival chance is 80%. But if you hit a pedestrian while driving at 40mph, the pedestrian's chances of dying rises to 90%. Your call...

(Taken from http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/slowdown/slowdown.htm)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: LongTallSally on January 30, 2008, 06:05:39 pm
Well said James and Mermaid!

It's sad that even more so today people have the attitude they can do what they like, when they like. Don't we teach children to be aware of the consequences of their actions, especially on others ? How important it is to show self-restraint when to not do so puts people at risk.

I wonder if  Mark_Eric has thought this through properly. He appears to condone an action which is not only dangerous but illegal, with little regard for the people affected. So, has he considered how dangerous it is for HIM.

One reason why the speed limit is set is because it is impossible to see potential hazards far enough ahead if travelling faster. The tragedy is if the obstacle is a person, but what if it's something else; like a stationery lorry he was unable to see while coming round the bend at his high speed?  How does he think he will fare in a smash when he was driving at 40mph or, heaven forbid, more?

What if he had a head on crash with another driver, who had the same attitude? Wouldn't that mean a combined speed of min 80mph instead of up to 60mph? Can't believe that would improve his chances of survival or ability to walk away. (or ever again!)

So Mark_Eric, keep that speed down! The limits are there for good reason. Speed does kill; But have you thought the person who dies might be YOU!!

 

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 30, 2008, 08:18:12 pm
You can turn a bend here and be met with a herd of meadow ladies or a damn great combine, does it slow people down, does it heck.
I make a point of driving at a speed which would enable me to stop upon coming across a hazard.
When I had me Blighty plates on the jam jar the boy racers would tail gate me, now with the local plates they back off, or is it the rifle case on the rear shelf ( joke before everyone goes anti gun )
I have always kept an iron bar in the car in case an injured animal needs dispatching, I always carry a small bar when out fishing in the wilds.
As for cats, most get killed at night, keep them in and the chance of death is more than halved. I also keep an eye on mine when its outside during the day.
Is it kinder for a cat to be killed instantly by a car or by terminal ilness in old age? I know which is the more expensive.
There is no reason why cars could not have dual governers, 30 for towns and 60 for the open road. Engines could be designed to run efficiently at that speed easily.
Thing is that speeding is a money raiser both in fines and duty so its not likely to happen.
As for direct action against speeders, I refer the honourable gentleman to atempts made to bring this to fruition a few years back. All it resulted in was a row between whose road was more deserving and a lack of anyone wanting to help.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on January 30, 2008, 09:31:32 pm
One reason why the speed limit is set is because it is impossible to see potential hazards far enough ahead if travelling faster.

The 30 mph limit is not about ensuring you travel at an appropriate speed so you can see far enough ahead - whatever road you are on you should be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. On single track roads such as parts of Hawkshead it is half the distance you can see. Basically - It’s a limit - not a target. The need to travel at a such a speed is more about the potential of lateral movement such as emerging vehicles, pedestrians or cats etc suddenly appearing from stage left.

I appear to have upset hilarycarlen with my response to their post re cats. On reflection I accept it lacked sympathy and as a fellow animal lover I apologise for that. The point I was trying to make was that this thread is about speeding and road safety. Speed was not shown to be a contributory factor in the collision although seemed to be getting the blame. As a generic anecdote of the potential dangers on our roads then it could equally have been attributed to a drunk or unlicensed driver. Animals, tamed or otherwise, straying onto a highway are yet another hazard. As a car driver you may believe that the cat carries all the risk, however if a motorcyclist is riding along the road, it may not be the cat who dies.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 30, 2008, 09:35:26 pm
Quote

How about a couple of volunteers sitting in deckchairs with yellow jackets on, a digital camera on a tripod (no need to use it), a flask of tea (or something slightly stronger) and just watching the world go by.



I was driving in Letchworth yesterday and saw two young ladies in the distance with bright yellow coats, clipboard, etc, and I assumed they were documenting the heritage buildings or some other snooping, but as I got nearer I noticed that one had a hand held speed gun (looks a bit like a megaphone). They may have got me because one was busy writing on the clipboard when I went past, and in mitigation m'lud I was running late.

I am familiar with the locations of the static speed cameras and where the normal speed check van is parked in most areas between here and north herts, and amend my poor driving habits whilst in those areas accordingly. But yesterday's experience has made me more aware of the possibility of "fly speed traps" and even if I don't get the brown envelope through the post in the next few days, I will probably go a bit easier in future. Don't worry, I'm not a mad speeder but I need to take advantage of the 10% plus a bit rule to finish my working day before too late at night.

So to conclude this ramble, yes it would probably be a good idea to have people dressed in official gear with clipboards and cameras, but you should check this with the police first as I'm sure they need to give consent. Might need health and safety, risk assessment, etc.

ATG
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 06:07:21 am

Don't worry, I'm not a mad speeder but I need to take advantage of the 10% plus a bit rule to finish my working day before too late at night.


Hi Alfred, I searched the web for more on the "10% plus a bit rule" you mentioned, but it came up blank. Are you saying that the police make allowance of 10% over the limit for those breaking the law in towns and cities? 

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on January 31, 2008, 07:51:00 am
Quote
Vehicle construction and use regulations require a vehicle speedometer accuracy to be in the range of -0->+10%. The implications are that it must never under-read - for obvious reasons - but may over-read. As the cost of manufacturing a speedometer with -0% error would be very costly they all over-read by a few percent without exception. Even if speed is measured correctly the display may not be accurate, so a speedometer error is allowed. Because of this, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) have an official formula for calculating a speeding offence. It allows a leeway of 10% plus 2mph.

from http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Rules_useage/The_Law.htm

Having said that, can't find it on any 'official' site, although it is mentioned in lots of places on forums and the like..

So you could in theory get away with driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone I guess. Can't see that does much for the safety of pedestrians or animals though :(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 08:12:50 am

So you could in theory get away with driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone I guess. Can't see that does much for the safety of pedestrians or animals though :(


Thanks for that research, James. So, I guess the only safe way to ensure that you are not driving over the 30 mph speed limit (based on the unreliability of speedometers) is to drive at 10% under the speed limit, so average around 27 mph through built up areas. That way, if the speedo is wrong, then you are likely to still be driving within the law.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: stevea on January 31, 2008, 08:35:57 am
In Queensland, Australia, the police allow 10% on speeding - but on public holidays and long weekends, it's zero tolerance and double the fine!!  They make a heap of revenue (of course it's not revenue making!!) especially at Christmas! They caught a friend of mine speeding - the policeman was wearing a Father Christmas hat and even wished him a Merry Christmas as he handed him the ticket! My friend was not amused.   :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on January 31, 2008, 11:19:28 am
I once decided to drive up a motorway at 70 mph and was passed by just about everything.

Barnabus 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 03:57:22 pm
Hi Barnabus,

I guess there are always going to be laws, ideals and compromise. The issue is what is the law, what is currently happening, and what are the consequences of those actions.

So far it seems to be loads of dead cats, one local resident knocked over (I only found out about this because of this thread)...


Try elderly neighbour who was run over by a speeding driver on Bluebridge Road and had to spend quite a few weeks in hospital!


... and many people acting irresponsibly by ignoring both the above.

Surely the issue is not judging ourselves against the behaviour or others, but everyone obeying the law?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on January 31, 2008, 05:29:04 pm
David

Who can  say they have never transgressed?


Barnabus



Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 05:37:56 pm
David

Could we make a list of those in BP who can honestly say they have never transgressed in this respect?

Or to put it another way - 'let those who are without sin cast the first stone'

Barnabus



Hi Barnabus,

We are talking about people speeding down Bluebridge Road.

Let's not confuse the issue with talk of 'sin' or 'stones'.

This is not about judging people with arbitrary values; this is about a 30mph speed limit in a built up area where the consequences of transgression could be the loss of life.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on January 31, 2008, 05:40:50 pm
Could we make a list of those in BP who can honestly say they have never transgressed in this respect?

I don't think I've ever managed to pedal up Bluebridge road at over 30mph...  :)

David - whether going 40 mph up Bluebridge Road or 90mph on a motorway - surely there is increased risk of loss of life with both? Or is one socially more acceptable than the other?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on January 31, 2008, 05:59:44 pm
James

Full marks on the bike

Barnabus
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 06:04:54 pm
David - whether going 40 mph up Bluebridge Road or 90mph on a motorway - surely there is increased risk of loss of life with both?

Or is one socially more acceptable than the other?


Hi James, yes, there is an increased risk of loss of life with both and no, one is not socially more acceptable than the other. Both are breaking the law.

Back to the issue. Speeding on Bluebridge is against the law, dangerous and should stop.

No amount of moralising will get away from that fact.

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on January 31, 2008, 06:22:51 pm
Correction 'Speeding is against the law, dangerous and should stop.'

Barnabus


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 07:49:47 pm
Hi Barnabus,

I must admit that you have lost me.

However, I guess we are agree that doing more than 30 mph on Bluebridge is a bad idea and we should all be campaigning to ensure that people observe the speed limit.

 ;)

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on January 31, 2008, 08:18:42 pm
David

Could we make a list of those in BP who can honestly say they have never transgressed in this respect?

Or to put it another way - 'let those who are without sin cast the first stone'

Barnabus


When they decide to stone speeding drivers to death I'll agree with you, but what we are talking about is stopping drivers, including me, from speeding. Very different. All drivers speed at some time, but that doesn't make it acceptable or, more importantly, safe.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mark_Eric on January 31, 2008, 09:08:55 pm
 The majority of people drive above the speed limit, whether they admit it or not. Sometimes this is to excess and is dangerous, but much of the time it is because the speed limit is too low for the road and conditions. Just as sometimes the limit is too high.

I think driving at 80mph on a motorway is perfectly acceptable in good conditions. I also think coming into Bluebridge Road at 40mph from Hawkshead Road is fine. However, as you reach the bend by the church you should be going under 30mph and even slower by the bend outside The Brookmans. When I go down Peplins Way at school time I don't go above 20mph. Its about using common sense not sticking rigidly to rules. This is why you rarely get pulled over by Police for speeding,  unless you are being silly.
Just because something is against the law does not make it wrong. (I realise that the people who contribute to this forum are unlikely to agree with that last comment and will consider me arrogant. But it is a fact)       

To be quite blunt if you do not like speeding cars then Bluebridge Road is the wrong place to live. This is why many people would not buy a house in this road. Be realistic.

It is okay saying 'Environmental issues aside' John, but these issues will kill far more people in the next 50 years than speeding.

I think a zebra crossing would be a good idea near the shops and yellow lines outside the church. A width restriction half way down Hawkshead Road might be a good idea. But speed humps are awful for the reasons I stated previously.

Like I said I am not advocating excessive speeding and I certainly don't think I 'deserve' to go fast, thanks Mermaid. I am speaking up for the silent majority.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on January 31, 2008, 09:23:34 pm
One of the best places to get run over is on a Zebra crossing. :(
It would be difficult for a pedal cyclist to go down BBR at less than 30mph, unless they want to burn their brakes out. :)
If one is polite to a speed cop there is every chance that you will get a warning, with me they let me go just to get away :icon_jokercolor:
Every single driver has exceeded the limit, is it because the limit is sometimes inapropriate?
Every time major road alterations occour the limit is reduced or the positioning altered, stealth taxation?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on January 31, 2008, 09:36:37 pm
I live nearly opposite the Brookmans. As many know, I get annoyed when I consider them to be excessively noisy. Of course, living opposite a pub, I expect some noise. However, I do think at times they cross the boundaries and they are unreasonable.

If I chose to live in Bluebridge Road, I would expect traffic noise - it is one of the main roads into the village after all. However, I think in the same way that noise upsets me is unreasonable so it is with people speeding.

Now, granted as someone who has never driven a car and doesn't even hold a license (hence the cycling quip earlier Barnabus), I'm probably about the worst person to comment about these issues as I have no experience of them. However, faced with the statistic I posted earlier about the difference in speed at hitting someone at 30mph compared to 40mph I cannot see any justification for going over 30mph in what is a residential area. It just doesn't make any sense.

Although, again, I don't have any experience, my personal view is that motorway driving is a different kettle of fish - the chances of running into pedestrians or domesticated furry animals is not great, and I would imagine with the increased safety, better parts (e.g. improved braking etc) and robustness of cars today (compared to 50 years ago) going a bit faster would not so much of an issue as it is in a residential area.

So if you are saying that sometimes the speed limit is too low - I could probably be talked around to this on motorways and find myself agreeing with you. But surely the lower limits in residential areas are not there because the road surface is dodgy or the road is twisty - they are there for the protection of others. And that for me is the difference.

One of the things that cycling regularly has told me is however safety conscious you are yourself, you can never cater for the stupidity/carelessness of others on the road- whether deliberate or accidental...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on January 31, 2008, 09:47:31 pm
To be quite blunt if you do not like speeding cars then Bluebridge Road is the wrong place to live. This is why many people would not buy a house in this road. Be realistic.


How dare you!!! So according to you, because people choose to live in Bluebridge Road, we deserve all we get from speeding drivers! We should expect to have an elderly neighbour knocked down or a child frightened, we should expect to have animals run over and killed - because it's our own fault for living in the wrong road. What a thoroughly arrogant and ignorant point of view that is!

Happily, your view that we 'lesser' residents don't deserve any respect from you in terms of observing the speed limit is not shared by the police! I do hope that our local officer is reading this thread!!

(Edited only to fix quote box - David)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 31, 2008, 09:56:34 pm

I also think coming into Bluebridge Road at 40mph from Hawkshead Road is fine.


You are entitled to think that, but if you drive at 40mph you are breaking the law and are a danger to yourself and others, so please stop doing it before an innocent victim is hurt.


I am speaking up for the silent majority.


Do you have statistics to justify this?  Judging from this thread you are a vocal minority.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mark_Eric on January 31, 2008, 10:33:53 pm
I don't need statistics. Drive down any road and you will see that the majority of people do not stick to the speed limit. I don't believe driving at 40 mph coming into the village is being a danger to myself and others. Statistics do not explain everything at every situation. You cannot live your life based on statistics!

Stop putting words in my mouth Mermaid. I did not say that you should expect your pets to be killed, neighbours run over etc and I did not call you a 'lesser' resident. But if i had such an issue with speeding cars frightening my poor children I would not live in a busy road where cars speed. Common sense. My view is shared by the police which is why they speed, like most people, and why you do not get pulled over every time a policeman sees you speed. Arrogance to you, realism to others.

I would welcome a much stricter enforcement of the speed limits, but the speed limits should be changed first, to be realistic. As they stand at the moment every day millions of people are breaking the law. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on January 31, 2008, 11:48:35 pm
So Mark_Eric, what would you consider to be a realistic speed limit for Bluebridge Road?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sharks on January 31, 2008, 11:56:32 pm
I wonder if you are all missing the real issue here.  You are right none of us should speed along Bluebridge but ....... what is more dangerous, a driver driving along a motorway who is fully alert because of the speed he is driving (80+) or, a driver who slows to the correct speed limit but does not need to concentrate or indeed is concentrating on the speedometer ..... for me, I drive to my concentration levels, 80+ on a motorway, around 40 on Bluebridge slowing to 30 towards the village and 20 by the schools.

Speed isnt the biggest killer, lack of concentration is, either because you're tired or on the phone or changing the cd or reaching for your coffee between your legs or ......
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on February 01, 2008, 06:56:32 am
But Sharks, although I do not doubt your concentration levels, they are going to be no use at all when (for example) a small child on a bike comes out of The Gardens without looking properly and you plough into them. 90% chance of being dead at 40mph, 80% chance of living at 30mph...

Like I said above, I think the 30mph speed limit is there for other people's protection, not just your own.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 01, 2008, 07:02:05 am

I wonder if you are all missing the real issue here.  You are right none of us should speed along Bluebridge but ....... what is more dangerous, a driver driving along a motorway who is fully alert because of the speed he is driving (80+) or, a driver who slows to the correct speed limit but does not need to concentrate or indeed is concentrating on the speedometer ..... for me, I drive to my concentration levels, 80+ on a motorway, around 40 on Bluebridge slowing to 30 towards the village and 20 by the schools.


Not sure we are Sharks, the real issue is speeding along local roads. I presume when you say you drive at 40 on Bluebridge that you don't mean in the 30mph area of the road, but on the part to the south of the village before it joins Hawkshead Lane where 40 is allowed.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on February 01, 2008, 08:37:48 am
My view is shared by the police which is why they speed, like most people, and why you do not get pulled over every time a policeman sees you speed. Arrogance to you, realism to others.

This is going back a few posts . . . but Marc_Eric, presumably the police - like paramedics, like the fire brigade - only speed when they've been called out to deal with an emergency. I think the police would be the first to tell you to observe the speed restrictions on the roads. They're often the first on site when there's been an accident and they see the full consequences of reckless driving.

I've got to agree with James Bentall on this one . . .

I think the 30mph speed limit is there for other people's protection, not just your own.

. . . If we really knew what happens when a car hits a pedestrian or even another car at speed, I think we'd all be out there campaigning for road safety. My sister was a police officer for a time and had to pick up the pieces at more than one road accident. Some of her stories were pretty upsetting. They certainly straightened me - a teenager then and not one who was likely to win any awards for my driving - out immediately.

We all think we're conscientious, careful drivers who can anticipate most things on the roads. But if we're zipping along - particularly on a residential road like Bluebridge, near a church, shops, a school - how can we really know we won't hurt anyone? Children and animals are wonderful but they don't always behave according to any rulebook. If you're driving, you're an adult - and you should.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 01, 2008, 09:33:03 am
Speed is not necessarily the factor which results in more people and pets being hurt or killed

Barnabus   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on February 01, 2008, 10:10:59 am
I always try and observe speed limits although this has as much to do with avoiding speeding tickets as anything else.

But I strongly agree that speed is a problem on Bluebridge, I have been overtaken many times whilst travelling at 30mph. Perhaps if I drove at 40mph it would be safer so cars would not feel the need to overtake, who knows ?

But what I think cannot be argued with is the fact that children, dogs, whatever, can and occasionally do run into the road and at 30mph a driver has at least some chance of stopping, swerving to avoid, sounding the horn or whatever, and that chance decreases rapidly with an increase of speed.

The person who proposed that Bluebridge residents shouldn't live there if they didn't like speed, is , frankly deluded at best and well I don't know what at worst. I live in Peplins Way yet will often walk on Bluebridge Road to friends houses, or perhaps Gobions. I certainly feel I have a right to expect a certain level of safety whilst walking on the pavement there, or anywhere else. Does this person never walk on roads that he / she doesn't live in ?

Sharks is absolutely right when stating that concentration is an issue and that speed is only one aspect. However, increased speeds means more road travelled for a given reaction time.

I think the only real deterrent would be a couple of speed cameras, as much as I hate them. One at the bottom of BBR, the other at the brow of the hill near the church. As soon as people get points on their licences I guess people will learn, even if for all the wrong reasons. I think cameras have a fairly minimal visual impact compared with traffic calming bumps and chicanes and allow emergency vehicles to travel quickly if appropriate.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: stevea on February 01, 2008, 10:48:15 am
Sasquartch - After reading all of the posts on this topic, I think you're right about the speed cameras. I don't like them either, but what you have suggested is probably the right answer.  If you drive through Potters Bar on Mutton Lane where the speed cameras are drivers definitely slow right down at these points - the same would happen at Bluebridge Rd.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on February 01, 2008, 09:10:01 pm
It appears from the studies they have carried out that increasing speed limits results in a reduction of accidents not an increase.
Speed is not necessarily the factor which results in more people and pets being hurt or killed - which I found interesting but not surprising.
Barnabus   

If you look at the references (and I admit I only had a quick look) it says

"low speed drivers are more likely to be involved in accidents than relatively high speed drivers." Cirillo (1968) in a similar analysis of 2,000 vehicles involved in daytime crashes on interstate freeways confirmed Solomon's results, extending the U-shaped curve to interstate freeways, as illustrated in figure 1. The analysis was limited to crashes involving two or more vehicles traveling in the same direction.


So you do get more crashes in slower traffic, but they are low speed shuts, cars rear ending each other at junctions. This has no relevance to the danger to pedestrians. But, from the same reference...

The relationship between impact speed and crash severity is particularly critical for pedestrians, the most vulnerable road users. In a recent review of the issues, the European Transport Safety Council (1995) report that only 5 percent of pedestrians died when struck by a vehicle traveling at 20 mi/h (32 km/h); however, the proportion of fatalities increased to 45 percent at 30 mi/h (48 km/h) and to 85 percent at 40 mi/h (64 km/h)….
the risk of being involved in an injury crash was lowest for vehicles traveling near or below the median speed and increased exponentially at higher speeds.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on February 01, 2008, 11:15:18 pm
Quote
"low speed drivers are more likely to be involved in accidents than relatively high speed drivers." Cirillo (1968) in a similar analysis of 2,000 vehicles involved in daytime crashes on interstate freeways confirmed Solomon's results, extending the U-shaped curve to interstate freeways, as illustrated in figure 1. The analysis was limited to crashes involving two or more vehicles traveling in the same direction.


Can't really see what relevance a 40 year old American study has to this discussion. I think Barnabus is missing something.

John Fraser is correct, as have several other posters stated (including James Bentall and others), there is an indisputable correlation between speed and survivability.

I agree speed limits should be set at appropriate levels. BUT Bluebridge Road, like thousands of other residential roads have potentially unpredictable children, cyclists, dogs, cats and who knows what else. Speed really does have the potential to kill. So a 30 limit is probably appropriate. I personally can't imagine setting a higher limit would be safer in the case of Bluebridge Road.

I'm no expert but as a parent of 3 children I have very real fears when I see a speeding car drive at obviously way over the speed limit along local roads.




Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on February 02, 2008, 12:52:45 am
The pavements along Bluebridge Road, particularly as you get further out of the village, are very narrow, and when the pavements are busy during school start and finish times I thnk even 30mph is too fast.   

I was caught by a speed camera in Potters Bar driving at 38mph.   I have to say that I always believed I was a careful driver and when I was offered the option of taking a speed awareness course as an alternative to getting points on my licence I took the challenge.

I spent about 45 minutes driving around Hertfordshire with man with a clipboard which, you would think, would have been done within the speed limit.   At the end of the "test" I was suprised to be told that I had driven most of the time at between 33 and 35mph in built up areas.
It may not seem much over the speed limit but it was over the limit, particularly when you consider that I should have been aware of my speed.

During the course we were also given statistics and the proof is there, speed kills.

Doing the course has certainly changed the way I drive and has made me much more aware of my speed.   If you get used to watching your speedo you will find that it doesnt take long for you to get used to driving at 30mph in residential areas.

Of course, my partner still beleives it is just the  council money ripping off the poor old motorist as usual.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: LongTallSally on February 02, 2008, 09:12:29 am
Sadly despite all that has been said by the majority on this site, I see the minority, like Mark_Eric still consider it their right to speed on local roads.

Although it's been said many times, just to repeat once more; The speed limits are there for a good reason, in the event of hitting a pedestrian at a higher speed than the limit permits you stand a far higher chance of killing them. Should you kill someone you will have to live with this for the rest of your life and also that if you had travelled within the speed limit the person may have survived.

The 30mph speed limit on Bluebridge road comes into effect where there are houses, I am not impressed by people who claim to observe the limit at the church or even round the school.  Houses mean pedestrians.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on February 02, 2008, 09:37:54 am
Trying to maintain within the speed limit of 30 mph along Bluebridge Road, it has to be said, can remain a challenge for many motorists. On a personal basis, I am particularly careful to ensure I limit my speed to about 30 mph - creeping up to 32/33 mph if you don't watch the speedo. What annoys me most, [as I believe it would do to many others], are the drivers who constantly cling onto your back bumper because they want you to drive faster. I hold my ground, but unfortunately a few times, this has led to horns being tooted, and abuse as they overtake and pass you by. The point being, how many other drivers would do as I do ? Older people may feel intimidated and creep over the limit as they fear what could happen to them if they did'nt. More to the point, clear messages in one form or another [eg speed bumps, speed cameras etc] could well be the answer.   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mark_Eric on February 02, 2008, 12:33:56 pm
I think the speed limit should be 40 mph in Bluebridge Road James, certainly up to the bend by the church.

I viewed a house in Bluebridge Road before I moved to Brookmans Park and did not buy it because the road is a busy through road with cars travelling at 30-40mph+ . This, despite the fact that the house was cheaper, for that reason, than quieter roads. Not delusion sasquartch, common sense.

My view may be in the minority on this forum but the views of the people who post on this website are hardly representative of the average person in this country! As I said before, look around you, most people travel at 40mph in roads with a 30mph limit.

If the total concern regarding driving is safety, then why a 30mph limit, why not a blanket 20mph on every road? I am sure that a pedestrisn has even less chance of being killed at 20mph than 30mph. Why is somebody who drives at 30mph holier than thou and somebody who drives at 40mph an arrogant speedster? 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 02, 2008, 03:42:36 pm

Why is somebody who drives at 30mph holier than thou and somebody who drives at 40mph an arrogant speedster? 


Hi Mark,

It's not a question of being 'holier than thou', or as another put it 'let those who are without sin cast the first stone'. This is not about moralising; it's about a speed limit that has been agreed for a section of road in a built up area. You are just going to have to slow down and obey the law or you might hurt someone.

David





Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 02, 2008, 05:35:29 pm
David

You are right! The law says that the speed limit on Bluebridge Road is 30mph. We certainly should obey the law at all times and in all places.

I do not condone or approve of excessive speed or bad driving which causes anyone or anything to get hurt

Barnabus 

 

 


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mungroo on February 02, 2008, 05:41:59 pm
Quote
At the end of the "test" I was suprised to be told that I had driven most of the time at between 33 and 35mph in built up areas

I find peppermints comments very interesting. I think one of the problems these days is that with big, powerful, comfortable, modern cars, it's all too easy to build up speed and not realise it - even if you are one who obeys the law. I have done it many times as I'm sure have others on this discussion.

One would think that with all the technology that goes into cars these days, something could be developed to automatically slow them down in built up areas. In my view, manufacturers need to be more accountable for what they produce - there is too much glamourisring of power and performance.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 02, 2008, 07:56:24 pm

How about a little test - as you drive your car this week on each and every occasion, wherever you are, when you exceed the speed limit (by even 1 mile pr hour) just pull over and (metaphorically) give yourself three points on your license - a sort of citizens arrest! How long do you think it would be before you had twelve points? Then ban yourself from driving for a little while (as you see fit). This appears to be what you are suggesting that no excess speed should ever be tolerated - I am not moralising I am just holding a mirror up to the suggestion you have been making in this thread - and as I say you are technically absolutely right.


Barnabus,

That’s the second test you’ve felt you needed to set for me regarding the laws of the land.  I didn’t see the point of the first and I don’t see the point of this latest challenge.

 :)

This thread is about speeding on local roads. It is not about trying to out smart other posters or judge people. 

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on February 02, 2008, 09:10:57 pm
It seems clear that people are concerned about the issue, so the logical question is how does the discussion get taken to the next stage? Since Bluebridge is an adopted road, presumably the council needs to be involved in the discussion about any potential solution. Does Brookmans Park have a local elected representative that can raise the issue?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on February 02, 2008, 09:46:56 pm
It seems clear that people are concerned about the issue, so the logical question is how does the discussion get taken to the next stage? Since Bluebridge is an adopted road, presumably the council needs to be involved in the discussion about any potential solution. Does Brookmans Park have a local elected representative that can raise the issue?



If you look back to David Brewer's post on 28th January in the morning you will see that work should have started by now.

Maybe Grant can get things moving (so to speak!)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 02, 2008, 09:49:59 pm
David

The issue is - is it only wrong to be called the sort of names that those contributing to this thread have been used  (B*****d comes to mind) when it applies to Bluebridge Road  and should we heed our advice when driving in any other place?  :-\

Barnabus

    

  
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 02, 2008, 10:11:13 pm

It seems clear that people are concerned about the issue, so the logical question is how does the discussion get taken to the next stage? Since Bluebridge is an adopted road, presumably the council needs to be involved in the discussion about any potential solution. Does Brookmans Park have a local elected representative that can raise the issue?



Hi AK,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, as Angel mentioned, the local MP has taken some action. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php?topic=1198.msg10168#msg10168) to read his post.

We have had a poll on the site for many years trying to assess the most appropriate measures for containing the traffic speed through the village.

Last year the local police urged local residents to report speeding (click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/august07/speeding.shtml) for that story).

A year earlier, police discovered that more than a third of motorists on Bluebridge were breaking the law (click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/august06/speedingsurvey.shtml) for that story).

At one point, in 2004, police were suggesting they might resort to speed cameras. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/august04/speedcamera.shtml) for that story.

The issue has been back and forth, which is probably why this thread is one of the the most viewed and most responded to in the forum.

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on February 02, 2008, 10:33:02 pm
Thus far this is a thread full of blah and opinion. Does anybody know the facts?

Is this stretch of road a proven accident hotspot? Those wanting speed cameras had better know the answer to this question.

Which is BPs most dangerous road? The bend Moffats Lane can be a scary experience.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2008, 07:29:11 am

Thus far this is a thread full of blah and opinion. Does anybody know the facts?


Hi Nightlondon.

What facts?  Whether the roads in question have speed limits, or whether someone is more likely to be injured at certain speeds. Not sure what facts are lacking. If you are talking about Bluebridge, then the facts are:


The nature of a community forum is that it will be full of opinion. People post what they know and what they think. That’s the way it works.


Is this stretch of road a proven accident hotspot? Those wanting speed cameras had better know the answer to this question.


If you are talking about the village stretch of Bluebridge Road, then the answer is no, it is not a proven accident hotspot. Serious accidents (which probably means at least one human fatality) need to happen for a road to be awarded that status. And that appears to be one of the reasons for the frustration expressed by many local residents; it seems a tragedy needs to happen before action is taken.

Back in 2000 Herts Co Co considered a petition handed in by local residents concerned about the speeding. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/july00/bluebridge.shtml) for that story. I guess the red warning road surface we were led to believe would be laid 18 months ago was a result of that, although I don’t know. All I know as fact is that something was promised. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/september06/trafficalmingbluebridge.shtml) for that story.

The same petition (about Bluebridge Road) was presented to Welwyn Hatfield’s Environment Committee. The minutes of that meeting showed that members decided:


In June 2006, North Mymms Parish Council pushed for something to be done and wrote to Herts Co Co requesting a meeting about speeding along roads in North Mymms. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/june06/calming.shtml) for that story. Herts Co Co declined that meeting saying that regular speed checks would be carried out by police. Click here (http://www.users.waitrose.com/~northmymmspc/Minutes%20-NMPC%20060726.htm#top) for the parish council minutes of that meeting.

As far as I am aware (based on reading the neighbourhood watch newsletters on this site - click here (http://www.brookmans.com/neighbourhood/index.shtml) for the archive) there have been a number of speed checks since (click here (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php?topic=1198.msg10422#msg10422) to read PC Jo Wakelen's post about this).


Which is BPs most dangerous road? The bend Moffats Lane can be a scary experience.


I agree, a very scary bend and referred to many times in this thread. The discussion is entitled speeding on local roads, it covers all roads in the area.


David





Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on February 03, 2008, 11:46:35 am
David, thanks for the recap. Very helpful for those of us who have just moved to the area.

As an observation, with the new fiscal year approaching mid-April, now seems like an opportune time to re-approach the council to make sure that the long-promised traffic calming measures on Bluebridge are considered in next year's highways budget. Otherwise, we may be having a similar conversation in 12 months' time.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 03, 2008, 01:01:04 pm
I wondered if this accident was a direct result of excessive speed and was the driver of the vehicle prosecuted?

Barnanbus
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2008, 01:56:22 pm

This would help us to get to the facts.   


I guess the only fact that really matters is that the speed limit in built up areas, such as Bluebridge Road, is 30 mph.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 03, 2008, 04:33:23 pm
David

You appear to be are arguing that 'special' traffic calming measures


Barnabus 

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2008, 04:58:46 pm
Barnabus,

I am not arguing for anything other than for people to observe the speed limit. I can't work out why you have such a problem with this.

It was you who wanted facts to justify an existing law, again I can't figure out why you need them. The law is the law and nobody is beyond it.

The reference to the elderly person being injured came from an earlier post from a trusted forum user who I have no reason to doubt.


Don't patronise us by airily dismissing 40mph as 'hardly more scary or noisy' than 30mph, try telling that to my elderly neighbour who was run over by a speeding driver on Bluebridge Road and had to spend quite a few weeks in hospital!


Perhaps we should discuss this one off line as we did with the blasphemy issue because I am sure people are getting bored with the way this is going round in circles.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 03, 2008, 05:33:15 pm
I have no reason to doubt Mermaids 'opinion' about her neighbours unfortunate accident.

Barnabus 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2008, 06:39:00 pm
Barnabus,

I am genuinely sorry, but you have lost me again. It's probably me being thick. Let's continue off line. I am sure we both agree that people should obey the speed limit on Bluebridge Road and indeed on any road. I am also sure we can understand each other better if we discuss it via the personal message system.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on February 03, 2008, 07:11:46 pm
This stream about an elderly resident being hit is troubling because it seems to imply that someone needs to be injured before action can/should be taken. While this is a response that I would expect from a council employee (i.e. reactionary / backwards looking rather than preventative / common sense), it's hard to see why a resident would feel this way.

We've only lived in Brookmans Park for 3 weeks and been visiting for just over 6 months, but the speed issue was apparent from the first few times that we visited. Coming on the train, we got to know the village on foot (and still walk at every opportunity). Speed especially seems an issue on Bluebridge, Georges Wood and Mymms (the first treated like a highway by some; the latter two made worse by the lack of sidewalks).

Residents should feel safe walking in the village and not have to resort to driving to the high street for fear of high-speed drivers. Given the interest in this topic, it seems that plenty of people don't feel safe.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: barnabus on February 04, 2008, 09:49:15 am
This is certainly about road safety
Barnabus
 

   



Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: peppermint on February 04, 2008, 09:57:14 am
Whilst on the subject of road safety, a mini roundabout or possibly a pedestrian crossing at the convergence of roads outside the Brookmans would considerably slow down the traffic through the village.   Whilst I dont know if there have been many accidents there, you certainly take your life in your hands at busy times of the day when trying to negotiate crossing the road.   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on February 06, 2008, 10:48:41 am

The report of an elderly person being knocked down and injured to the point of going into hospital is new and a very worrying escalation of the problem - if it is the case.


What do you mean - "if this is the case"? Are you accusing me of lying? That says a lot about you - an illuminating peek into your psyche and what a dark and murky pool it is! How petty and uncharitable that you should assume that someone is lying. Shame on you!

I stand by what I wrote because I was told first-hand by the victim that they had been knocked down by a speeding driver when crossing Bluebridge Road and that they had been in hospital for some time and that was why I hadn’t seen them for a while. This was some time ago, not within the last 8 months, so I don’t know where you got that from. I certainly trust that person to have told me the truth and I see no reason to disbelieve them.

I am not going to identify the victim in any way (hence avoiding even mentioning gender) as that would be an intrusion into their privacy. However, if there is a need for another petition about speeding in the area, I will certainly be asking my neighbour if I can present their identity and experience as part of the evidence.



Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Peter Hastings on February 07, 2008, 07:33:53 am
As I remember it the question of a speed camera covering the bridge area was put to the council but they also do not regard the road as an accident hotspot and refused to spend what apparently is a lot of money to instal and monitor a camera.


that would be my favoured option but it appears not to be likely in the near future.

What about chevrons on the bridge area and the top of the hill? Cheaper and effective at least to  degree?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on February 07, 2008, 08:03:57 am
I wonder how much speed cameras are and whether the local community would club together and pay for one.... ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 07, 2008, 08:18:17 am
Or we could make our own fake ones like people in one Oxfordshire village did (click here (http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso4.htm) for picture). I've got a bit of left over plywood and yellow paint in the shed, I think.

 :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: naomi on February 09, 2008, 09:06:05 pm
It was quite interesting to see the 'Fake Gatsos'.  Although many are of poor quality,  from a distance a driver would probably slow down.  It's certainly a cheap option!  :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Johnny Redd on February 11, 2008, 10:32:56 am
I'm all for the fake Gatso option. Whats the legal standpoint  ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on February 11, 2008, 11:19:53 am
Unfortunately it appears many of the speeders are in fact local people.

Once the word gets around that it's a fake it'll soon lose it's effectiveness.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 16, 2008, 06:45:24 pm
Just walked back from the village with a take away and a large black vehicle must have been doing 60 mph over the bend by the church passing a parked car on the wrong side of the road.

When are the authorities who have the power to stop this going to do something? It's not good enough to wait for a tragedy. This thread will continue to haunt those who refused to recognise the problem and those who felt they were beyond the law.

It really is a poor show of risk assessment by those elected to represent those who are increasingly at risk.

(And please don't anyone ask me to prove that risk with stats or go off on some moral crusade about shades of grey).

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on February 16, 2008, 08:59:35 pm
When are the authorities who have the power to stop this going to do something?

When enough of us start making enough noise about it....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on February 18, 2008, 09:09:40 pm
With the numbers of posts and views this topic has received, I think there is plenty of noise being made (at least amongst ourselves). The question is who we need to direct the noise to get a result? The past efforts seem to have been rebuffed.

Perhaps Grant could follow-up on the council's letter re: installation of a 'red tarmac traffic calming measure' (Sept 2006)?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on February 20, 2008, 07:16:49 pm
As regards to the Posting I put on the site regarding a serious accident in Bluebridge Road.I was walking back from Potters Bar and reached the turning to the Vet College.The road was closed by 4 police cars so I walked through the field and looked towards the road (bluebridge) and on the opposite side of the road was a smashed up black car which must have overturned,by the state of the car no one could have got out of it alive.This is the result of speeding because the car was crushed and flattend.I wonder what or if anybody else saw this car. Bluebridge road is the new Brands Hatch and its such a shame that someone has to get killed just to prove a point.

THE ROCK
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on February 21, 2008, 08:45:48 pm
Hopefully it was a one-car accident
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Albert Ross on February 22, 2008, 08:48:05 am
If a proper roundabout (not a pimple) was to replace the triangle that regularly floods at the junction of Bluebridge Road and Hawkshead Lane it would slow traffic in all directions. Perhaps then motorists would be going slower on their approach to B.P. and also towards the Vet College. Perhaps if this had been done lives could have been saved.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on February 23, 2008, 12:02:59 pm
Found this solution in Germany... http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/boing/the-world...bump-326453.php (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/boing/the-world...bump-326453.php) Sadly, whilst this is clearly a joke, speeding is no joke and there already have been fatalities nearby. I was working along Bluebridge on Thursday. My van parked in the road acted as a chicane, slowing traffic, but to some it was clearly an annoyance as it slowed their race. I noted there were many speeding motorists in both directions, both cars and vans, even lorries. Worryingly, speeds seemed to increase around the time schools were turning out for the day.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 23, 2008, 01:03:50 pm
Found this solution in Germany... http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/boing/the-world...bump-326453.php (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/boing/the-world...bump-326453.php) Sadly, whilst this is clearly a joke, speeding is no joke and there already have been fatalities nearby. I was working along Bluebridge on Thursday. My van parked in the road acted as a chicane, slowing traffic, but to some it was clearly an annoyance as it slowed their race. I noted there were many speeding motorists in both directions, both cars and vans, even lorries. Worryingly, speeds seemed to increase around the time schools were turning out for the day.

What a brilliant video. Fantastic.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sharks on February 25, 2008, 03:03:35 pm
Before we get carried away with our assumptions ........ the accident may or may not have been caused by speeding.  Only the driver of the car will know.  Thankfully the driver is out of the car although injured.  The car unfortunately hit a lorry head on hence the substantial damage to the car.  Hawkshead is notoriously slippery either from mud or ice on the road and suffers from cross winds and an adverse camber.  All experienced local drivers know this.  Please be sure to remember when you are using this road.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mungroo on February 26, 2008, 08:09:14 am
and please stop using mobile phones - this also causes one to lose concentration and before you know it you are over the legal limit and driving with one hand on the wheel.
I was driving to the hospital in enfield yesterday and had a lady (must have been in her early 60s and looked a bit posh - driving a merc) driving behind me all the way from the High St/Causway fork junction in PB up to the M25/A111 roundabout and she was on her phone all the way. We then went in different directions and I bet she was probably on the phone all the way to Hadley Wood. I was very close to getting out of my car at one of the traffic lights to take a photo of her with my phone just to shock her and make her realise that what she was doing was pretty dumb.
And this morning on my way to work in Islington, I spotted van after van at a very busy pedestrian crossing point - drivers on the phone. It's almost like the law never existed.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 26, 2008, 08:12:40 am

It's almost like the law never existed.


Totally agree.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on February 26, 2008, 09:50:19 pm
Mungroo,

Quote
I was very close to getting out of my car at one of the traffic lights to take a photo of her with my phone just to shock her and make her realise that what she was doing was pretty dumb.

If you'd been seen doing that, you would have been fined for it as you'd be 'using' your mobile phone 'whilst driving' and probably for leaving your vehicle whilst the engine was running, oh and 'obstructing the carriageway' at the same time!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mungroo on February 27, 2008, 01:35:55 pm
that's one of the reasons I didn't. It also crossed by mind that I would have been done for 'invasion of privacy' or something stupid like that
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AK on March 02, 2008, 05:25:46 pm
As highlighted previously on this stream, the issue with speeding in BP isn't confined to Bluebridge Ave.

Driving down Brookmans Ave this afternoon, we were followed (as closely as physically possible - with only the speed humps sparing our rear bumper) by a red VW Golf/Polo with four teenagers in it. As we continued down Georges Wood Rd at 30 mph from the intersection with Mymms, we had another car about 20 metres in front of us and two cyclists working hard up the hill on the opposite side of the road, with two pedestrians just behind them. Apparently I wasn't going fast enough because the red Golf/Polo shot around us, narrowly missing the cyclists.

And the driver's reward for overtaking us on a busy residential road at 40-50 mph? They got stuck behind the car immediately in front of us and reached the Great North Road 10 seconds before we did. I would like to think the driver realised how pointless their aggressive driving was, but it seems unlikely. Common sense and courtesy is all that's required on the roads, but it's sadly lacking in a large percentage of the population these days.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on March 03, 2008, 07:33:40 pm
Only 12 months latter then promised, just as useless as expected and probably more expensive than you could believe, we have at long last the mighty "Slow" sign painted on the road. Hands up anyone who thinks it might reduce speeding (because I've some Northern Rock shares you might like to buy).
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on March 03, 2008, 09:17:04 pm
Interestingly, the majority who have voted in this thread's poll regarding the options favour flashing speed signs, although to be fair, we didn't offer red painted 'go slow' warning markers as an option.

By the way, I notice they have worn out on the way into Colney Heath, presumably either because of people slamming on the brakes to observe the speed limit having been shamed/reminded by the markers, or because they are taking the corner so fast that the red gravel has ended up in the hedgerow.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on March 03, 2008, 09:56:06 pm
and please stop using mobile phones - this also causes one to lose concentration and before you know it you are over the legal limit and driving with one hand on the wheel.
I was driving to the hospital in enfield yesterday and had a lady (must have been in her early 60s and looked a bit posh - driving a merc) driving behind me all the way from the High St/Causway fork junction in PB up to the M25/A111 roundabout and she was on her phone all the way. We then went in different directions and I bet she was probably on the phone all the way to Hadley Wood. I was very close to getting out of my car at one of the traffic lights to take a photo of her with my phone just to shock her and make her realise that what she was doing was pretty dumb.
And this morning on my way to work in Islington, I spotted van after van at a very busy pedestrian crossing point - drivers on the phone. It's almost like the law never existed.

I makes me so angry too
woman jailed for killing cyclist whilst texting (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23445661-details/Woman+driver+who+killed+teenage+cyclist+while+texting+is+jailed+for+four+years/article.do)
What's so worrying in this story is that 45% of people surveyed said they had texted while driving.
 >:(
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on October 09, 2008, 11:09:18 pm
The speeding message is not getting through. Having previously posted a message on this topic regarding Bluebridge Road, I am disappointed that virtually the same message still applies, albeit that on this occasion I was working further along the same road but in Welham Green - Station Road at the junction with Bulls Lane, the speed at which cars sweep around the corner coming from Welham Green village towards BP and from BP to Welham Green is at times terrifying. The near misses I witnessed today were frightening involving elderly and young pedestrians and cyclists and other motorists is only a second away from a fatality. Why oh why do people want to floor their accelerator as they head towards the Catholic Church, The Community Centre and Potterells Medical Centre where clearly old, young and or infirm will be beats me. Often there are horse riders too. The speed is 30mph along this stretch, that is the maximum speed. It was incredulous to see one motorist slam his brakes on as he came up behind a learner driver and then overtake on a blind corner. A speed camera or speed trap would pay for itself in a day judging by todays performances, and presumably this is happening each and every day. When will we learn, speed kills, when one of our nearest and dearest dies? I attended a funeral some years back of a youngster killed on the road in Welham Green, it is not a pleasant memory. Don't be that next killer on the road, kill your speed, not a child - please. I post this on the forum as in the past it was found most of the speeding motorists caught in Bluebridge Road were local - so hopefully, if one of those speeding motorists is you, this may make you think again.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 10, 2008, 06:40:28 am
Hi Ferdie,

The problem is, do those speeding read the forum and, if they did, would they take any notice?

The people who read this forum, the police, local councillors, our MP, prospective parliamentary candidates etc have the ability to do something, but the problem remains.

So we are faced with indifference from those who are speeding and take risks and the inability, either through lack of resources, existing rules, or the lack of clout of those in positions of influence to change things.

Clearly, we need calming meaures, but the strange rule that there has to be a tragedy before a local road qualifies as a black spot seems to hold sway.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on October 10, 2008, 10:16:44 am
The speed is 30mph along this stretch, that is the maximum speed.

I thought between the church and bridge over the railway the limit is 60mph.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 10, 2008, 11:06:57 am

on this occasion I was working further along the same road but in Welham Green - Station Road at the junction with Bulls Lane, the speed at which cars sweep around the corner coming from Welham Green village towards BP and from BP to Welham Green is at times terrifying.

Why oh why do people want to floor their accelerator as they head towards the Catholic Church, The Community Centre and Potterells Medical Centre where clearly old, young and or infirm will be beats me.


I took it that Ferdie was talking about the 30mph bit as people leave Welham Green and head towards the 60mph bit, but I may be wrong.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on October 10, 2008, 07:53:48 pm
Average speed cameras are the best, no more speed bumps please.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on October 11, 2008, 09:22:31 am
I thought between the church and bridge over the railway the limit is 60mph.

Yes John it is 60mph, but the bit I am referring to is the section from Bulls Lane to the Watersplash bridge by the Catholic Church, that is 30mph. The 60mph section I think should be lowered anyway due to the twists and turns in the road, Potterells, The Scout Hut, the blind junction with Bradmore Lane, the little Nursery and the horse stables.. but since many motorists ignore the speed limits anyway that alone won't work, that's why calming measures or police intervention is necessary. David, yes, my main reason for posting is that I know apart from residents, some politicians & Police read the forum. Let's not wait for another tragedy before someone takes notice. The times I see cars emerging from the Community Centre driveway and almost coming to grief with vehicles coming from BP at often in excess of 60mph, (it's 30mph by this stage) are countless. The arrogant behaviour of such drivers who then blast their horns and flash lights (despite the fact that due to their speed they are not visible until too late) further proves their belief that they alone can drive on the road and nobody else has the right to use the stretch infront does nothing to dispel my belief that intervention is required.

Edited to fix quote box.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on December 29, 2008, 02:10:15 pm
Police are planning random speed checks in the area. Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/december08/speed_check_signs_erected_in_Brookmans_Park.shtml) for more details.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/december08/speed_check_area_sign.jpg.JPG)

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 30, 2008, 11:28:39 am
Have I missed them but is this the only sign in the whole village?  Where are the other warning signs that should be on Bluebridge Road and other entrances to this new Police Speed Check Area?  What is the extent of this area?

I shall be raising this at next week's Parish Council meeting and asking NMPC to contact the police about this.

Dave quotes the police as saying that the only safe limit is not to drink at all.  Since when have the police usurped the role of Parliament?  Parliament has set a limit of 80 milligrams per whatever I think.  Do we now live in a police state? 

We need to know   >:D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on December 30, 2008, 11:30:04 am
Bob,

They are putting them up all over the place. The sign pictured is the first.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mannyd on December 30, 2008, 12:58:58 pm
A pedestrian crossing or zebra crossing on Bluebridge please!!
I actually had to stand in the middle of the road last week trying to assist 2 elderly residents (and me with the baby in the buggy) - in fact turned into an argument as a lady driver slammed her brakes on and started to tell us "we shouldn't try and cross near the Brookmans as it was dangerous!". Nothing to do with the fact that she appeared to be driving in excess of 30mph or any compassion for the elderly residents (one of whom struggles to walk - never mind about doing as the lady suggested, which was to walk further into the village(by the bus stop) to cross)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 30, 2008, 04:00:57 pm
Bob,

They are putting them up all over the place. The sign pictured is the first.

David

So the workmen are having to go out on more than one occasion to put up the various signs at entrance roads to this new speed check area.  What a waste of time and money.  No doubt they will then send out an inspector (Police Inspector rank?) to check up that they are (in)visible and in the right place.  Just as this sign is where you need to keep your attention on the road just beyond a sharp bend in the road over a bridge and next to a bus stop.

The words 'p--- up' and 'brewery' come to mind.  (Sorry Dave - I had momentarily forgotten your surname)

Have I become a 'Grumpy Old Man' or is this yet another example of the waste by publically funded bodies.  How much will the Police Precept increase when we get our 2009/10 Council Tax bill?  :mblah05: :mblah05: :mblah05:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on December 30, 2008, 09:53:22 pm
Dave quotes the police as saying that the only safe limit is not to drink at all.  Since when have the police usurped the role of Parliament?  Parliament has set a limit of 80 milligrams per whatever I think. 

There is no absolute limit that is safe, just varying degrees of risk. A driver with twice the legal limit is 30 times more likely to have an accident than a driver with no alcohol in his or her bloodstream. That doesn't mean that the sober driver is absolutely safe, just more so.

The Police really ought to state that to be as safe as possible you should not drink before driving, and any alcohol will progressively impair your judgement, possibly making an accident more likely. From a legal perspective there has to be some limit otherwise prosecuting drunken drivers would not be possible. It would also be impractical to have a zero limit, there will always be some residual alcohol in the bloodstream of even a moderate drinker the morning after.

I agree with Bob that the Police statement could be misleading although I don't think we're quite a police state yet  ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on December 30, 2008, 10:11:00 pm

Dave quotes the police as saying that the only safe limit is not to drink at all.  Since when have the police usurped the role of Parliament?  Parliament has set a limit of 80 milligrams per whatever I think.  Do we now live in a police state? 
javascript:void(0);
We need to know   >:D

Hi Bob,

Check out the Herts Police Website FAQs (http://www.herts.police.uk/main/faqs.htm), I didn't read it as a legally binding instruction, rather a bit of advice. The wording is below.


How much alcohol can I drink and still be safe to drive?

You MUST NOT drive with a breath alcohol level higher than 35mg/100ml or a blood alcohol level of more than 80mg/100ml. However, due to many different factors, we would advise the only safe limit is NOT to drink at all when you have to drive. Remember, you may still be unfit to drive in the evening after drinking at lunchtime or in the morning, after drinking the previous evening.

(Incidentally, Sasquartch has already pointed out that those figures are wrong, which is why they are not included in the news item.)

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: shelfsidelower on December 30, 2008, 11:48:02 pm
a subject close to my heart. i cant make that meeting due to work commitments but can someone please bring up the fact that people (especially women in 4x4s) speed along that road with a phone in their hand so often. my wife and children are in a car along that stretch of road several times a day everyday.. and it worries the life out of me..
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bunny on December 31, 2008, 10:26:04 am
I drove through Hadley Wood into barnet about 2 weeks ago, and was pulled over by a policeman with a speed gun.  He informed me that due to complaints of speeding motorists from the local residents, the police had decided to monitor the situation with a speed gun, and prosecutions for drivers speeding at over 45 MPH in the 30 MPH zone.  He had to set the level st 45, otherwise he would be stopping virtually every car!!!  He was located in the middle of the Hadley Heath were I doubt you get many people wanting to cross the road unlike the village area of Bluebridge.  Maybe worth a thought that do not only complain here on the forum but to the local police station.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on April 21, 2009, 06:15:11 am
The BBC is reporting this morning that the speed limit could be reduced to 20 mph in some areas. All for it, but it could result in those who want to go faster overtaking. My wife and I have both been overtaken in Brookmans Park as we observed the 30 mph limit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8009364.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8009364.stm)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on April 21, 2009, 02:31:51 pm
The usual lack of joined up thinking.  ::)

Reducing speed limits by 10 mph on 'derestricted' roads will not make any difference. If you are hit by a car doing 50mph you will be as badly off as if you were hit by one doing 60mph.  Does anyone know what the optimum speed should be in order to get the most miles per gallon from the average car?  I suspect it is about 60mph.

Cars doing 20 mph in urban areas will struggle in top gear so they would have to be driven in an intermediate gear, getting fewer miles per gallon.  My car is an automatic so it will keep to a lower gear, using more fuel.  At 20 mph the driver's attention is more likely to wander than if doing 30 mph, so more accidents may happen.

The number of accidents, including fatalities, in the UK is I believe already lower than most other countries.  A life is a life, but how much more elf and safety can we afford as a country?  Think of all the road signs that will need altering, speed cameras altering, etc, etc.  I despair.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on April 21, 2009, 03:11:10 pm
At 20 mph the driver's attention is more likely to wander than if doing 30 mph, so more accidents may happen.

Hi Bob,

Never heard that one before. Is that statistically proven?

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on April 21, 2009, 04:58:43 pm
The usual lack of joined up thinking.  ::)

Reducing speed limits by 10 mph on 'derestricted' roads will not make any difference. If you are hit by a car doing 50mph you will be as badly off as if you were hit by one doing 60mph.  Does anyone know what the optimum speed should be in order to get the most miles per gallon from the average car?  I suspect it is about 60mph.

Is reducing the speed from 60 to 50mph in the countryside more about drivers going too fast down narrow country roads and crashing their cars into things when they loose control, as opposed to pedestrians being hit?

Quote
Cars doing 20 mph in urban areas will struggle in top gear so they would have to be driven in an intermediate gear, getting fewer miles per gallon.  My car is an automatic so it will keep to a lower gear, using more fuel.  At 20 mph the driver's attention is more likely to wander than if doing 30 mph, so more accidents may happen.

But if the survival rate of people being hit increases from 1 in 5 to 1 in 40....

Quote
The number of accidents, including fatalities, in the UK is I believe already lower than most other countries.  A life is a life, but how much more elf and safety can we afford as a country?  Think of all the road signs that will need altering, speed cameras altering, etc, etc.  I despair.

If it decreases by 86% the chances of this happening again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7384542.stm

Is it a price worth paying?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on April 22, 2009, 10:50:23 am
What has happened to common sense?  Ok - people can change when they get behind a steering wheel but there are a huge number of drivers who do use common sense and drive according to road conditions.

In some situations it is dangerous to drive at 20 mph even though the road may is classed as 'derestricted'.  Anyone would be stupid to drive past a school at 20 mph when the kids are leaving.    On motorways and dual carriageways, you get idiots who speed past you when heavy rain or snow makes the windscreen difficult to see through and aqua-plaining reduces tyre grip.

The year-old article that James linked to in his comments referred to a hit and run driver whose car was thought to have a damaged windscreen.  Let me make an educated guess and suggest that the driver was drunk, uninsured, lost his licence, no licence, driving a stolen car, or something similar.  What speed limit would have made any difference in that case? 

I have no evidence to support my suggestion that a driver's attention is more likely to wander when driving at a slower speed. It was simply a thought to see if anyone agreed that the faster you drive, the more you concentrate.  So is the converse true?   >:D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on April 22, 2009, 11:29:27 am
I agree with Bob. Having been to the funeral of a child killed on the road in Welham Green some years ago, it is never pleasant. But speed wasn't a factor, yet the authorities still put in chicanes as a result which have since been removed as they then added to the hazard of the road.

In addition, slow moving vehicles increase road rage in some drivers which then causes more accidents. What has happened to common sense?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on April 22, 2009, 12:21:01 pm
What has happened to common sense?

The problem isn't speed itself but inappropriate speed.

Unfortunately I still regularly see boy racers with their small hatchbacks with blacked out windows, drainpipe exhaust systems and thumping stereos speed along Bluebridge Road through the village.

Changing speed limits isn't going to change this behaviour.

I agree with Ferdie
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 22, 2009, 12:42:45 pm
Is the suggestion that enough drivers have enough common sense that we can rely on them to drive at appropriate speeds? If so I see zero evidence for this. Most drivers break the current speed limit on a frequent basis. Most stay within a few mph of the limit for fear of accumulating enough points to get a ban. If the limits are lowered the same thing will happen, but the driver will be going slower. And by going slower they will improve the survivability odds for everyone in an accident.

Bob, your supposition about the accident on Mymms Drive is exactly that - supposition. The boy was badly hurt, they don't send you to Great Ormond Street Hospital for fun, and was lucky to recover.  Many cars speed on Mymms Drive and there is a strong case for making the speed limit on that road 20mph. Even a good driver, doing everything right can have an accident. When that day comes a lower speed will make the difference between life and death.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on April 23, 2009, 06:57:12 pm
I am not sure I follow this 'common sense' line. Are people saying that we don't need restrictions because people will be able to work out the appropriate speed by using their common sense? Or are people saying that it is okay to drive a bit faster than legally allowed if we consider the conditions are such that driving within the speed limit could be dangerous?

Traffic officer: "Excuse me, but I just clocked you doing 45 mph along Bluebridge Road, you do realise it is a 30 mph zone, don't you?"

Driver: "Yes officer, I am well aware of the speed limit. However, there was someone behind me and my common sense told me that if I drove at 30 mph it may well force them to have to overtake me on the blind bend by the URC, so I put my foot down to avoid an accident."

Traffic officer: "Ah, that's okay then. Sorry to have held you up, it's good to have people exercising their common sense in such situations, have a nice day."

Can't see it working myself.

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on April 23, 2009, 11:27:33 pm
No, from my view, I would suggest common sense means there are speed limits. I would consider it not sensible to offer the suggestions Dave makes above, as to me that is not 'common sense'. The Highway Code gives clear instructions on what to do in the scenario he describes (which does not advocate the answer he proffers) and that is 'common sense'.

However, it is the impression that the only way we can improve or remedy a situation is to place further restrictions on the majority. There seems hardly a day that goes by without someone suggesting that yet another law or an amendment to that law is introduced to spy on us or restrict us. Of course there have to be laws, but the problem is, the laws we do have are either perceived as not enforced, are unenforceable, or unfairly enforced. I won't go into a list of examples as it will inevitably draw focus away from this issue as they cover a wide spectrum of our liberties.  The current thinking seems to be, we need to ban this, restrict that, legislate for something else, the list goes on. For the law abiding citizen, we are clobbered, but those that don't care seem to escape any restriction by envoking a claim of civil liberty or human rights making the law impossible to enforce anyway!

The 'common sense' approach is to enforce the existing law and educate those who break the law and that means fining, banning etc as currently provided for. Every day and I mean every day I see speeding motorists, I see drivers using mobile phones, I see un taxed vehicles (& therefore likely to be uninsured). But who enforces the law as it is now? In many areas a 20mph may well be a welcome option, but there will still be uninsured, untaxed, unlicensed boy racers, drunk or drugged drivers who won't care whether the speed limit is 20mph or 50mph. Of course a child's chance of survival in an accident with a car travelling at 20mph is statistically greater than one hit at 30mph, but if we banned all cars, then we'd reduce accidents by 100% is that common sense? So therefore, where will it end? 20mph today, 15mph tomorrow, man with a red flag the day after?  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on April 24, 2009, 06:44:43 am
Hi Ferdie,

Thanks for claritying. I totally agree with part of what you say.

The 'common sense' approach is to enforce the existing law and educate those who break the law and that means fining, banning etc as currently provided for.

I was under the impression that some were questioning the speed limits on the grounds that they were (in terms of personal 'common sense' values) inappropriate or environmentally unfriendly (and could therefore be ignored).  However another point you make suggests that the existing laws you mention do not pass your 'commons sense' test.

Of course a child's chance of survival in an accident with a car travelling at 20mph is statistically greater than one hit at 30mph, but if we banned all cars, then we'd reduce accidents by 100% is that common sense? So therefore, where will it end? 20mph today, 15mph tomorrow, man with a red flag the day after?  :icon_scratch:

Surely, in a democracy, laws are discussed and enforced and then those who dislike them can campaign to have them changed. So is what you are saying the beginnings of a campaign to prevent a 20 mph speed limit being introduced on local roads?

David

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on April 24, 2009, 09:13:14 am
  However another point you make suggests that the existing laws you mention do not pass your 'commons sense' test.

No, but we are in danger of 'over legislation' and by constantly changing, (some would say refining or improving - others say it is meddling or interfering). Creating the 'Nanny State' where the state takes responsibility for our every action, thus enabling the 'citizens' to abdicate any resposibility for their actions as the state laws prevent us having freedoms and ability to have a 'common sense' to our actions or thoughts as the state has already defined that for us.

So is what you are saying the beginnings of a campaign to prevent a 20 mph speed limit being introduced on local roads?

Absolutely not if it is appropriate, my concerns are that in practice there becomes a 'one size fits all' approach to this situation and many others, (ie drinking/smoking/religion/food/rubbish collection/use of car/hours of working/maternity - the list is endless) where everyone is forced to adopt due to a minority or 'non sensical' drivers who will continue to flout the rules/laws anyway.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on April 24, 2009, 09:26:41 am
Thanks Ferdie
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on April 24, 2009, 12:39:43 pm
Can anyone give me one 'positive' for maintaining the current speed limits ?

Can anyone give me any 'negatives' for reducing the current speed limits ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on April 24, 2009, 03:30:41 pm
Southbury,

There are likely to be numerous on both sides, it depends on your standpoint. Proposed reductions in speed limits are only 1 aspect in the overall drive to improve road safety.

You may find this site useful: http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/UnderstandingSpeedLimits.html (http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/UnderstandingSpeedLimits.html)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on April 27, 2009, 11:49:34 am
If you think about it, the police already have adequate powers  to deal with someone driving without due care and attention.  Surely it is better to enforce existing laws and regulations rather than bring in new ones.

I feel sorry for police officers, PCSOs etc who try to enforce the law.  They do their job and then some crafty lawyer comes along and gets the culprit off due a legal technicality, possibly caused by too many overlapping laws and regulations.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on April 27, 2009, 02:01:12 pm
  Surely it is better to enforce existing laws and regulations rather than bring in new ones.

I agree, and with deminishing budgets, it is clear the police are already stretched and are often unable to do this already. The police readily rely on co operation from the public to do this. Further legislation if perceived to be unecessary or ill thought out would likely deminish this consensual requirement and support by the public for our policing.

then some crafty lawyer comes along and gets the culprit off due a legal technicality, possibly caused by too many overlapping laws and regulations.

And this is already happening with EU and UK law coming into conflict.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on April 28, 2009, 11:47:07 am
It's not an either or choice. Certainly existing laws should be enforced, but that does not mean laws can not be made more suitable to the location.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on June 17, 2009, 12:59:11 pm
We have the pleasure of our own private TT races in Moffats Lane at least twice a day. The Boy racer in question lives in Moffats lane and rides his Motorbike  from his driveway at speeds that outstand me. Then later in the evening his white car comes out with the superloud exhaust blasting away.Then he puts his foot down and heads down the hill towards Bluebridge Road.

I can hear the noise of the motorbike heading out of BP and it must be doing some hell of a speed. Someone will get killed by this young man and the speeds he does from his house down the hill are "SCARY". Be warned Hope our local Pcs take note. This may save someones life and maybe the TT boy racer's as well.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alex on June 18, 2009, 06:58:10 pm
Name and Shame!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on June 18, 2009, 08:17:15 pm
Name and Shame!

This site doesn't encourage name and shame.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on June 18, 2009, 10:09:46 pm
This is easily dealt with by s.59 Police Reform Act 2002 - A wonderful piece of legislation.

Better still, PCSOs can enforce this, invite them to take a look.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PCSO Luxford on July 15, 2009, 11:18:51 am
Thank you to the 8 people who turned up for the last Police Meeting at the Church.   ;D

Speeding was mentioned on more than one occassion and one gentleman had an idea I would like to put to you.  He mentioned the flashing speed signs that you see along the roads which flash when you exceed the speed limit. His idea was have one funded by the people of Brookmans Park and possibly contributions by local businesses. 

My question to you is would you be prepared to donate money so a sign could be purchased?  The cost of buying one of these signs is between £22 - £30,000 which is not a small amount of money to find. 

I would be interested to hear your opinions on this idea. Please may I stress that this is an idea one of the Brookmans Park residents has had and at this stage is just for discussion.

The next Police Meeting is Monday 3rd August, 7pm - 9pm. I look forward to seeing you!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on July 15, 2009, 08:05:18 pm
I fail to understand the logic of these signs. Presumably they are to either:

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: mannyd on July 15, 2009, 09:49:33 pm
I too fail to see how these would work - I have challenged speeders in the village, and been ignored or told 'no way was I speeding'. If drivers will continue to speed (and deny they are doing it) when challenged directly (the last time was when I was trying to assist 2 elderly ladies, plus my buggy and toddler across the road - the driver in question actually beeped me to get out of the way), I don't think they will take any notice of a flashing sign.

There's got to be a better way.... anyone know what the alternatives are? In reality we are talking a very short stretch of road through the village
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: James Bentall on July 15, 2009, 09:55:54 pm
Quote
Dorset County Council says its research suggests drivers' speeds is 5mph lower near speed indicator devices (Sids).

Taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4652078.stm

However, comments on this Daily Telegraph page

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549230/New-road-signs-put-brakes-on-speed-cameras.html

seem less positive.

That same page also says they cost between £1.5k and £6k. ok, so it's two years out of date, but where did the £30k come from?

James
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on July 16, 2009, 09:14:11 am
£30k seems a huge amount of money for something of such questionable value.

As to residents funding it, well, I think I pay more than enough Council Tax, VAT, Income tax etc etc already.

I think anecdotal evidence suggests that it is often locals who are the culprits, the very people who will know it is only a warning without consequences, and who will probably ignore it. There are a couple in London Colney either side of the bridge over the river and every time I pass them on a bike I see cars set them of.

Unfortunately the only way to stop speeding is to make the risk of prosecution real and although I hate them, speed cameras (which would fund themselves) would be a workable option.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aloo on July 21, 2009, 12:43:53 pm
£30k is ridiculous for us to fund,  why can't the police set up a speed trap periodically?
Like Sasquartch I hate cameras, but a least they will slow people down and are self funding.
Maybe combined with a Zebra crossing between Brookmans and Cutting it Fine?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on July 30, 2009, 10:46:49 pm
Great to see the boys in blue out on Bluebridge Road once again. And looked to be giving out tickets too, not just warnings. I was genuinely surprised to see how slow cars travel on the road when they have to stick to the speed limit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: P.C 484 Freeman on July 30, 2009, 10:59:40 pm
Good evening.

You may or not be aware that one of the Policing Priorities in your area, chosen by yourselves in conjunction with your Local Safer Neighbourhood Team is speeding through Brookmans Park Village.

Tonight (30th July 2009) Officers from Hatfield Safer Neighbourhood Team were in the village conducting Laser Speed Enforcement.  We were there for just over an hour, in which time we recorded nine separate offences of speeding within a 30mph zone.  Those ticketed by ourselves were recorded doing speeds ranging up to 49mph in this 30mph zone.

Needless to say it is disappointing to recorded this many speeders in such a short period of time, especially when many of them are from the local area.

Can I please re enforce to anyone driving through the village and surrounding area's to please watch their speed and drive carefully.  Speeding carries a £60 fine and a 3 point endorsement on your licence, and if serious enough, could mean you having to attend court to explain your speed.

This is an ongoing campaign to combat speed through the village, and will be in different areas at different times of the day, please watch your speed and drive safely and courteously.

Kind regards
P.C 484 Freeman
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on July 31, 2009, 07:55:22 am
This is a great initiative , thanks.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ADM on July 31, 2009, 09:00:10 am
And a lot more effective than a flashing sign!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PCSO Luxford on July 31, 2009, 09:55:20 am
Thank you to those of you who replied to my request for ideas on the flashing speed sign.  It seems the flashing sign idea is not a very popular one and thank you for your views.

Hopefully you would have read PC Freeman's message on the speed enforcement we conducted last night, (30th July 2009), and the fact 9 tickets were issued to speeding drivers.  The previous week we conducted more speed enforcement in the area and tickets were issued there too. We have been very active around speed enforcement/driving without a seatbelt/driving whilst on a mobile, and intend to remain so.

The next Police Meeting is going to be on Monday 3rd August, 7pm - 9pm at the United Reform Church, so if you have any concerns you would like to raise, or just want to pop in and say hello, then please come along.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Toonboy1975 on August 01, 2009, 11:37:10 am
 :icon_jokercolor:

I think the flashing roads signs would be a great asset to the village i have seen them elsewhere in Hertfordshire such as Cuffley (on Cuffley hill), and they do work.
They have a shame factor on drivers who break the speed limit. :-[
Lets face it if everybody in the village donated a couple of pounds and local shops donated a bit more i reckon that in conjunction with the excellent police work that is curerently being carried out on the speeding issue the village would become a much safer place.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Oly on August 04, 2009, 09:35:44 pm
The cops were conducting another speed trap this evening, along bluebridge road. Nice to see they are keeping the cars at 30mph   :)
I was unaware that laser guns worked after dark as its hard to see the plate because of the headlights unless there is another way?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on August 05, 2009, 11:04:13 am
The police were out on Dixons Hill Road on Monday afternoon, too. It made such a difference to people's speed.

Flashing road signs, speed cameras, etc may help, but I don't think anything's as effective as having police on the road, monitoring speeds and stopping the worst offenders. There are few things more mortifying than hearing the siren, spotting the blue lights in your rearview window and being pulled over while everyone else on the road rubbernecks.

I was stopped on an American highway by a proper sheriff's deputy (man mountain in tan uniform, cowboy hat and reflective glasses - Cool Hand Luke, eat your heart out) when I was a teenager. I would have been grateful if the tarmac had buckled in the heat and swallowed me. Later,  I had to explain to my parents and pay for the ticket and the rise in my insurance rates.

What we had that day certainly wasn't a 'failure to communicate'. Nearly 20 years later, it's still as clear to me as on the day it happened - and I'm still scrupulous about sticking to the speed limit.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: chicken legs on August 05, 2009, 11:21:21 am
Sorry it's a bit off-topic but this is a subject close to my heart today.  After 40+ years with a clean licence, I was probably zapped by an officer yesterday.  Leaving Luton Airport after picking up my daughter, the road widens and looks just like a motorway and I failed to notice that it was still a 40mph limit  :(  Could anyone say roughly how long it takes for a ticket to drop  on to the doormat, please?

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on August 05, 2009, 11:39:18 am
Hi chicken legs,

I don't have the answer to your question but I do have a good story to cheer you up. Years ago, a good friend of mine in Scotland was caught tearing along the road by a speed camera. He duly received a ticket and a photo of the incriminating evidence. He thought it would be a laugh to send back a picture of a cheque. Shortly afterwards he received a photo of a pair of hands in cuffs. (Who said the cops don't have a sense of humour?) He paid up forthwith.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on August 05, 2009, 11:56:56 am
 :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob on August 05, 2009, 10:51:18 pm
Sorry it's a bit off-topic but this is a subject close to my heart today.  After 40+ years with a clean licence, I was probably zapped by an officer yesterday.  Leaving Luton Airport after picking up my daughter, the road widens and looks just like a motorway and I failed to notice that it was still a 40mph limit  :(  Could anyone say roughly how long it takes for a ticket to drop  on to the doormat, please?


as far as I know it has to be within 28 days
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PCSO Luxford on August 06, 2009, 10:23:34 am
Just to keep you informed, in the past week, we have conducted a couple of speed enforcement days, and a total of 15 tickets have now been issued.  Sadly the majority of offenders are local people.

We will keep on doing these enforcement days and hopefully the drivers will realise we mean business for the residents of Brookmasn Park!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: P.C 484 Freeman on August 09, 2009, 02:21:26 pm
Hello,

This is a message to give you an update into our recent Laser Speed Enforcement Campaign.

So far Officers from your Hatfield Safer Neighbourhood Team have conducted speed checks on three seperate occasions in Brookmans Park, for a combined time of approximately 3 hours.

In this time 17 Speeding Tickets have been issued for a variety of speeds.

It is not an underestimate to say that nearly all of those motorist's stopped are local to the area.

Can I please request again that motorist's are aware of the speed limits in area's that they are driving in and consider the consequences should they not adhere to them, speed limits are in place to make your roads safer and to reduce road related casualties and fatalities.

In answer to a question posted above, Speed guns use a laser to detect the speed of a vehicle and can be used in the dark.

As previously posted, this capaign is one of the priorities chosen by Local People for your Local Officers to combat on your behalf, and will continue.
Please help us to do this by driving slowly and safely.

Kind regards
P.C 484 Freeman
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on September 17, 2009, 10:13:29 am
Has anyone else seen the type of speeding alert sign that I have just seen in the Chesterfield/Mansfield area?

It displays your speed, and if it is below the speed limit then a green 'Thank you' lights up underneath.  Not sure if it gave the correct speed because, although I was in traffic, we all seemed to be at a similar speed doing just at or below 30 according to my speedometer yet the sign displayed 25 mph for me.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: stevea on September 17, 2009, 10:35:39 am
Yes Bob, I've seen them in Melbourne.  In Brisbane, we have a similar thing where you get a smiley face if you're under the limit  :) and a sad :( if you're over!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: awill on September 18, 2009, 02:00:31 pm
They have exactly the sign described by Steve as you come down Muswell Hill towards Crouch End. It shows speed and a happy or sad face, although the speed limit is 30 it is sad at anything over 25! One problem is that my kids like it to be sad so they shout - "Make  the man sad daddy!". I don't of course, not least because there is a speed camera 200 yards later on down the hill...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: stevea on September 19, 2009, 03:58:59 am
Awill - I had to laugh. My little girl used to shout 'Make the man happy dad!' Doesn't say much for my driving!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bobb on September 22, 2009, 11:28:39 am
Have any other Oaklands residents been woken in the early hours by cars racing up and down the road (especially over the weekend)?

Does anyone know who this is? It is only a matter of time before there is accident with the speeds being reached.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 22, 2009, 11:47:32 am
I walked to the village from our house at the bottom end of Moffats yesterday and two cars past us with both drivers using mobile phones. One was driven by a young woman with a "baby on board" sticker and the other by a middle aged man. Seems that particular piece of legislation passed some people by.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Carrie on September 22, 2009, 05:26:53 pm
Am regularly woken up (if I even manage to get to sleep) on Thurs-Sunday by the "boy racers" round the village green.  They then feel the need to park outside the shops with their music at full volume.

Speed checks in the village during the day are all well and good but it's in the evening when this could be advantageous - not least because no-one seems to bother wearing seatbelts either.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on September 23, 2009, 07:53:02 am
Passing a piece of legislation is all well and good, but it's useless if there isn't any meaningful enforcement of it. I agree with Carrie that speed checks could be carried out at better times. I'd love to see our PCSOs out on the roads during rush hour (morning and evening) and the afternoon school run. That seems to be when some drivers really take leave of their senses.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on September 24, 2009, 04:23:39 pm
Passing a piece of legislation is all well and good, but it's useless if there isn't any meaningful enforcement of it. ...... I'd love to see our PCSOs out on the roads ....

PCSOs don't enforce.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: AnneK on September 24, 2009, 04:54:57 pm
Oh, okay then. I'd love to see the police stopping drivers and handing out tickets at the times I mentioned.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on October 19, 2009, 11:51:17 am
On the way to work today I saw a would be Jenson Button, doing at least twice the speed limit, travel up Bluebridge Road towards the village. Seconds before, whoever it was had just passed over the "30mph" sign. I got some criticism when I rubbished the idea of painting this sign when it was first proposed, but does anyone feel that sign is (a) working and (b) worth the cost? I don't even consciously see the sign anymore and I doubt most locals (a group containing the majority of offenders) see it either. The only thing I've see slow the speeders on this reoad is a policeman with a speed gun at the end of Bluebridge Avenue.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 26, 2009, 08:29:04 pm
The community in Essendon has got together to form a Road Action Group to tackle speeding through the village.  This just in from Herts police.

http://www.herts.police.uk/crimedatabase/site/content.php?article_id=7167

Quote
October 26, 2009
COMMUNITY COMES TOGETHER TO STOP SPEEDING IN ESSENDON
By Corporate Communication Dept


CARS were regularly written off and speeding motorists were a regular sight on High Road in Essendon for village residents – many of who had children attending the local school.

With the number of calls to police and the council about anti-social driving increasing, the Hatfield Safer Neighbourhood Team decided to take drastic action with the local community to improve their quality of life.

“We were frequently called to road traffic collisions in and around the village where motorists were driving too fast in a 30 mph limit – and loosing control,” said Essendon PCSO Tony Bailey.

“We spoke to a number of residents about the issue and although people loved living in the village, speeding motorists were a real ongoing problem and we needed to do something collectively before someone was killed or seriously injured.”

After speaking to residents, it became a Safer Neighbourhood Team Priority and a Road Action Group was formed last year with Parish Councillor Margaret Titchner and local residents. Two police check speed signs were erected.

Tony said: “Very quickly we had the support of the whole community including offers of help from local businesses. It was amazing to see everyone coming together to tackle one issue.”

Schoolchildren from Essendon Primary School got involved by quizzing drivers going over the 30mph limit and designing eye-catching roadside posters to make people think twice about speeding near schools.

Headteacher Rod Woodhouse said: “We were very keen to support this initiative from the outset as a number of our pupils live in the village and have to cross busy roads to and from school or to get to the playing fields. The current posters on display are the second ones that the children have produced, which they worked very hard on.”

Since the initiative started two years ago, dozens of drivers have been given three points on their licence and £60 fines.

Parish Councillor Margaret Titchner said: “I was fighting excessive speeding for many, many years on my own. But by working with PCSO Tony Bailey and the school, we were able to get support and raise awareness of road safety working with local resident, many of whom have been personally affected.”

She said: “We are investigating a joint venture with other local villages to purchase a mobile speed indication device, consisting of a flashing warning and recording the actual speed of the approaching car. This would be manned by volunteers and rotated around partaking villages.”

Tony added: “As a result of this long-term initiative, we have together reduced the number of road traffic collisions and residents have said that it has made a real difference to them.

"Unfortunately there are a few people who are still not slowing down - just recently a vehicle ended up on its roof after destroying a boundary fence and a woman who was pulled out of her drive was hit by a car travelling at excessive speed. However we will continue to spread the message - road traffic collisions could be avoided by drivers slowing down and driving responsibly - through regular speed safety operations.”

Tony would like to thank the following people:

Essendon Primary School for their drawings and Headteacher Rod Woodhouse for his continued support.

Parish Councillor Margaret Titchner and all the members of the Essendon Road Action Group.

Scott Pearce from Datum Press limited who designed and produced the signs.

Chris Penstone-Smith from Mill Green Forge, who designed two frames for the signs and put one up.

Chas and Debbie Davies who manage the Rose and Crown who erected and displayed the sign below the pub sign.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: chicken legs on October 27, 2009, 09:27:02 am
I see 8 people voted that there isn't a problem with speeding in Bluebridge Road.  David, are you going to ask them to explain how children and old people are expected to cross the road?   >:D ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 27, 2009, 09:32:33 am
I see 8 people voted that there isn't a problem with speeding in Bluebridge Road.  David, are you going to ask them to explain how children and old people are expected to cross the road?   >:D ;)

 :)  Hi Chicken Legs, I think you just have.   ;)

But, yes, if any of those who voted that there isn't a speeding problem could explain I am sure loads of local residents would be interested to hear their point of view.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aloo on January 26, 2010, 08:51:09 am
The Police were doing speed checks on Sunday along Bluebridge.   Maybe they are finally listening to residents who complain about cars/vans using the village as a race track
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Birch on January 26, 2010, 03:46:38 pm
There's a lot of discussion on speeding through BP, but speeding in WG is a problem too. There have been numerous accidents on Dixons Hill Road and just yesterday morning I drove past an accident that seemed to involve 3 cars and a moped rider. I just hope the moped driver was ok.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on January 26, 2010, 06:03:06 pm
How very convenient a Sunday when everyone's proceeding to church, a speed trap, what about doing it during the week when HGV's over 7ton limit go flying through the village from Swanlands Road along with the many cars racing to work between 0800-0930. What do we pay for.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: P.C 484 Freeman on January 26, 2010, 10:52:41 pm
Good evening,

I would just like to take the time to reply to the above comments about the ongoing speed enforcement campaign that continued on Sunday 24th January.

Firstly, numerous messages and statements have been made by Police, both on this site, and Hertfordshire Constabulary's Website about speeding in Brookmans Park and surrounding villages.  These messages are designed to inform residents and people using the roads in these areas that laser speed gun is in use, and that the speed limits will be enforced by Police.

Secondly, Speeding is a Police Pledge Priority for Brookmans Park, this has been suggested by local residents such as yourselves in consultation with us. This is a problem that you would like Police to treat as a priority, which we will of course always do to the best of our abilities.

It is worth mentioning that the vast majority of people that Police are stopping and issuing speeding tickets to are local people who live in the village or surrounding area.  It is sad that this is the case, but clearly indicates that the message is not yet sinking in.

The speeding campaign will continue, at random times and days.  I would like to reassure people that Sundays speed enforcement was in no way aimed at targeting people going to church, or any other specific group other than those people who persist in speeding through Brookmans Park.  During just over an hour of laser, 5 tickets were issued in Welham Green and Brookmans Park.

May I take this opportunity to ask all people using the roads to watch their speed and drive carefully at all times.

P.C 484 Ross Freeman
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: southbury on January 27, 2010, 07:05:26 am
Please turn up as often as you deem possible and show no 'mercy'. If people don't speed they have nothing to worry or copmplain about.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on January 27, 2010, 07:17:47 am
Quote
It is worth mentioning that the vast majority of people that Police are stopping and issuing speeding tickets to are local people who live in the village or surrounding area.  It is sad that this is the case, but clearly indicates that the message is not yet sinking in.

What a sad state of affairs when even the local communities cannot adhere to what is being constantly referred to as dangerous. If this includes some of the Forum Posters - then shame on you, and may you get the points you deserve on your driving licences. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aloo on January 27, 2010, 08:52:55 am
I suggest the Police also look at enforcing the law on use of mobile phones while driving.   

The problem seems especially acute at school run time.

Many of the cars dropping/picking up children at Brookmans school blatantly ignore the law and persist in taking/making calls while driving their half ton vehicles up and down the verges on Peplins and Bradmore.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Johnny Redd on January 27, 2010, 08:54:46 am
For whatever reason or excuse it is a fact of life that the 99.9% of us have exceeded the limit at one time or another. I do, however fully support the police efforts to reduce death or injury.

With one eye on the curse of statistics however, I wonder whether the percentage of 'local' people stopped will naturally be higher on a Sunday than other days of the week????
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 27, 2010, 08:56:35 am
I suggest the Police also look at enforcing the law on use of mobile phones while driving.    

Total agree. Far too many people drive around here while chatting on their phones. It's a law that seems to be flouted without any fear of being caught.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: awill on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 am
I would strongly recommend targetting the evening rush hour in Brookmans Park. As I walked from the station at around 630 last night a succession of cars roared past me towards the bridge doing at least 40 mph, doubtless anxious to get home whatever the potential cost in human life.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aloo on January 27, 2010, 08:57:30 pm
It is very difficult walking with young-ish children (under 6)who are just finding their confidence on scooters/bikes around the village centre going to/from after school clubs and trying to cross the roads in the village centre.   

Where are the Police when it comes to sorting out speeding traffic during Rush hour??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on January 28, 2010, 05:50:53 pm
I second that rush hour pledge.  Always the worst time. The problem with BP is that because it has that "rural" edge I guess folk think its away from the police and they can get away with it.

Ive just moved here from London and am shocked not only by the speeding but general driving standards especially people driving down the middle of the road and parking at junctions. Especially up near chancellors.

Me and the other half always have a chuckle at the logic of drivers that sit at the junction of calder avenue and mymms drive with lights off in the dark waiting to pick up someone.

Hey ho...better than London with drunks and police sirens all night but should still be sorted.

Slow down all....think about the conversation you will have with yourself for the rest of your life if you smack into a pedestrian at 40....

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Little Miss Elaine Moffat on March 26, 2010, 09:52:39 am

Just saw this on the Welwyn and Hatfield Times web site

Woman hospitalised after car and van crash in Welham Green

A motorist was taken to hospital this morning (Friday 26 March 2010) after a crash in Welham Green.

Paramedics, firefighters and police were called to the junction of Swanland Road and Dixons Hill Road just before 8am, after a collision between a black Ford Focus and a white Mercedes Sprinter van.

A woman in her 30s was taken to the QE2 Hospital in WGC with minor injuries.

Police are still at the scene and diverting traffic down Swanland Road.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: epiphany on March 26, 2010, 01:10:59 pm
This is the latest in a long line of accidents at this spot. One of the problems there is traffic coming from Welham Green exits from a 30mph speed limit straight into the national speed limit so consequently drivers are accelerating
down the hill and around a blind bend which often catches people out as they start to pull into Dixons Hill Road from Swanland. Similar problem coming from other direction along Dixons - blind bend, speed too fast.
This problem could so easily be resolved if 30mph speed limit was continued from Welham Green down to entrance to St. Marys Church.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on March 26, 2010, 03:37:12 pm
Traffic Lights at that "hotspot" would solve the problem - all round.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on March 26, 2010, 04:29:45 pm
Traffic Lights at that "hotspot" would solve the problem - all round.

Traffic lights are expensive and unnecessary - most of the day it is a quiet junction.

Speed limits can help but ultimately it is the motorist's driving that will make the most difference.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on March 26, 2010, 05:24:04 pm
Quote
Speed limits can help but ultimately it is the motorist's driving that will make the most difference

Well, we've all established that motorists come in all 'shapes & sizes' so to speak, and hence need controlling. Lets face it, that particular spot has been a problem for quite some time. Are you now suggesting we put cost [traffic lights as you claim] against lives ?   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on March 26, 2010, 08:24:25 pm
Well, we've all established that motorists come in all 'shapes & sizes' so to speak, and hence need controlling. Lets face it, that particular spot has been a problem for quite some time. Are you now suggesting we put cost [traffic lights as you claim] against lives ?    

That's a pretty poorly thought out argument.

You could put traffic lights at every junction, speed humps on every road and so on. You'd certainly slow people down and possibly even save lives but is that a sensible or practical answer ?

Traffic lights are very expensive compared to other things like extending the 30mph zone to somewhere past the entrance to the church which may well be more effective anyway. I would hope with your financial expertise and analysis skills that you know that the most expensive option is not necessarily the best. And I am not suggesting we should save money if traffic lights would save lives. But I do not have any statistics to say how many people have been killed at the junction but I personally have not heard of any. If you do have statistics please feel free to share them.

Accidents can still happen at traffic lights, indeed I suggest that they might be one of the more common accident sites.

I stand by my asertion that driver behaviour is the most important factor. Not exactly sure what you mean when you say motorists need controlling, but it is the driver who controls the speed at which the car travels and whether to pull out at any particular time, not road signs or signals.

edited to fix quote box
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Little Miss Elaine Moffat on March 26, 2010, 09:19:39 pm
Another related story from the Welwyn and Hatfield Times web site


Residents’ anger over X-shaped speed humps


Angry motorists have clashed with a residents’ association over controversial x-shaped speed bumps that drivers say are wreaking havoc on their cars.


http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/residents_anger_over_x_shaped_speed_humps_1_210070 (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/residents_anger_over_x_shaped_speed_humps_1_210070)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on March 27, 2010, 03:19:39 am
Quote
I stand by my asertion that driver behaviour is the most important factor
Well Sasquartch, if you believe that to control the driving habits of millions is an easier task than simply putting up traffic lights at known hospots [where accidents AND serious injuries - if not death - have been known to happen] then your arguement has a lot to be desired. Shameful that you consider the cost of traffic lights in that particular spot more important than the potential loss of life. After all, it could be a memeber of YOUR family next. Period. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on March 27, 2010, 03:34:17 am
Quote
You'd certainly slow people down and possibly even save lives but is that a sensible or practical answer ?

This HAD to be a separate posting - a classic of where the cost of something is valued higher than the cost of a life, or serious injury. Oh how some people think.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on March 27, 2010, 09:28:00 am
Sorry PS, but you've missed the point.

How do you know traffic lights would be the best solution ?

Can you provide statistics of how many deaths and serious injuries there have been at that junction ?

Are you saying that as long as we spend enough money, road accidents could be a thing of the past ?

And don't suggest that I value money above my family - that is a ridiculous conclusion to draw.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on March 27, 2010, 11:05:02 am
Quote
Sorry PS, but you've missed the point.

Sasquarth - I do NOT have statistics to prove exactly your point, and I am sure there are some in existence. However, this is a well known "hotspot"  and the area and needs close attention. Enough attention to warrant some action. Let us take your point of view and suggest that Traffic Lights are too costly - well - lets go for speed bumps to and from that junction. Cheap to install and cheap to "maintain" - effective 24 / 7 and problem solved.

Don't tell me you have a problem with that too !
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on March 27, 2010, 11:55:52 am
Don't tell me you have a problem with that too !

I don't have a problem at all.

All I suggested is that trafic lights may not be the best solution.

Personally I think a far more dangerous junction is the crossroads by the station where traffic entering and leaving Travellers Lane and the Industrial Estate is pretty chaotic, especially in the morning. But, like you, I don't have any stats to back it up, just anecdotal evidence.

But let's be clear, all junctions are potentially dangerous. It is the drivers who crash, not the junction.

Edited to fix quote box
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: epiphany on May 13, 2010, 09:35:54 pm
Yet another nasty accident about 4pm today at junction of Swanland and Dixon Hill Road.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on May 14, 2010, 07:16:51 am
Yet another nasty accident about 4pm today at junction of Swanland and Dixon Hill Road.

Well Saquartch - what do you make of that ? Does it take someone to be killed next before you concede to the fact that Traffic Lights at this junction would be a worthwhile & lifesaving exercise ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on May 14, 2010, 08:20:38 am
I'm not sure traffic lights are the only solution due to the current wide angle of that junction. I think that was created to solve one problem and created another. Twice in the past couple of months I have been coming from Colney Heath and turning right down Swanland Road and on both occasions, this wide junction has caused confusion for drivers coming from Welham Green and turning left into Swanland Road. There are painted lines in the junction which should mean drivers stop or give way to drivers turning in from 'my' direction. Because the usual convention is that those drivers would have right of way, drivers fail to see the white lines and fail to stop. I'm not sure which direction the latest victims were travelling, but usually road/junction design is likely to be a major factor. Traffic lights may be a solution, but islands on the junction to better delineate the junction or a mini roundabout may be more appropriate. Finding the cost in the 'real world' is another matter, irrespective of the 'cost of lives'. Whatever, it clearly is a 'blackspot' and needs addressing. Maybe our local councillors/MPs/Police/PCSO's that view this site could champion some action.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on May 14, 2010, 09:16:46 am
Well Saquartch - what do you make of that ? Does it take someone to be killed next before you concede to the fact that Traffic Lights at this junction would be a worthwhile & lifesaving exercise ?

PS - read my posts again because once again you've missed the point.

I have never said that traffic lights wouldn't be a solution - just that this may not be the best way.

There are a number of potential solutions, eg revised speed limits, re-alignment of the junction, traffic calming, conversion to a roundabout, traffic lights etc. Are you a traffic engineer ? I am not but I have enough common sense to know that where a number of potential solutions to a problem exist each would need to be explored rather than just making a blind assumption that a particular way is the best way.

Supposing traffic lights are installed and someone jumps a red light and gets killed ? As I've said before, drivers crash, not raod junctions.

So don't try and suggest I am suggesting that I want to see someone killed there - that is not what I've said - re-read my posts !


Edited to fix quote box.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on May 14, 2010, 10:04:14 am
Sasquartch - as you say drivers crash - and again YOU miss MY point. In order to control drivers in known hotspots, there HAS to be control. Control occurs in everyday situations whether its to control citizens from breaking the law, to control the finnaces of a company from going over the edge or simply 'social' controls in a whole range of everyday activities.

For you to simply say that drivers crash is a complete nonsense - the law of averages will state that if left unattended by allowing drivers to do as they do, there WILL be a fatality - there have been too many near misses. CONTROL IS REQUIRED in that spot, and traffic lights will certainly save a potential loss of life or two.   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on May 14, 2010, 12:32:05 pm
PS

You seem insistent that traffic lights are the answer and will stop accidents at this junction. Saying that it is 'complete nonsense that drivers crash' is simply WRONG.

There is some feeling that traffic lights INCREASE accidents, for example this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/06/traffic-lights-london-ealing (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/06/traffic-lights-london-ealing)

Once again I will re-iterate - I do not dispute it can be a busy and potentially dangerous junction - but traffic lights MAY not be the answer.

I couldn't find any statistics but I'm sure lots of people have witnessed accidents at traffic lights.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on May 14, 2010, 01:21:56 pm
Sasquartch ............  re-read !!

OK  .....  I'll make it simple for you (a) do you consider that there is a problem on this junction ? (b) if so, what would be YOUR suggestion ? (c) if not so, then how would you explain a potential fatality in the future ?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PC 2192 ROLL on June 16, 2010, 05:58:57 pm
Dear residents, I thought it worth while to inform you that a further three motorists were sent speeding penalties whilst carrying out speed checks on BLUEBRIDGE ROAD, on the evening of Monday 7th June 2010. Thankfully, and for once ( :)) the offenders were not local residents of the village.

Please be mindful that speed checks will be carried out at random times of any given day, so please be careful whilst driving through the village and adhere to the 30mph speed limit, otherwise a £60 fine and three penalty points could be issued to you if you do not comply. I do not wish for this to sound a threat, but unfortunately there are still residents of the local area who feel that they can use BLUEBRIDGE ROAD and other nearby roads as a race track!

One of the biggest bug bears that you, the residents, have is speeding and most of the time, it is people who live in the village who should know better. Speed checks are only a way of prosecuting offenders who do not keep to the speed limit, it isn't unfortunately a CURE for speeders full stop. For those of you who do drive sensibly, please continue to do so as it is refreshing to see people using roads in the correct manner.

Take care and see you around the village.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on June 16, 2010, 06:16:52 pm
Ive noticed a lot of motorists driving in the middle of the road especially on the Moffats lane corner.

Might be worth putting a post in about this.

keep up the good work

bp

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on June 16, 2010, 07:50:31 pm
Thank you to PC Roll and others who were involved in the speed checks. It's good to feel that something is being done about speeding drivers   :)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on June 18, 2010, 08:47:00 am
Dear residents, I thought it worth while to inform you that a further three motorists were sent speeding penalties whilst carrying out speed checks on BLUEBRIDGE ROAD, on the evening of Monday 7th June 2010. Thankfully, and for once ( :)) the offenders were not local residents of the village.

Please be mindful that speed checks will be carried out at random times of any given day, so please be careful whilst driving through the village and adhere to the 30mph speed limit, otherwise a £60 fine and three penalty points could be issued to you if you do not comply. I do not wish for this to sound a threat, but unfortunately there are still residents of the local area who feel that they can use BLUEBRIDGE ROAD and other nearby roads as a race track!

One of the biggest bug bears that you, the residents, have is speeding and most of the time, it is people who live in the village who should know better. Speed checks are only a way of prosecuting offenders who do not keep to the speed limit, it isn't unfortunately a CURE for speeders full stop. For those of you who do drive sensibly, please continue to do so as it is refreshing to see people using roads in the correct manner.

Take care and see you around the village.
I would also be interested in seeing speed checks carried out in Welham Green during the busy periods of the day. Also there has been an increase in HGV's over 7.5 tons using Dixons Hill for access to industrial estate.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alfred the Great on June 18, 2010, 09:43:20 pm


Might be worth putting a post in about this.



You just have.......

Or did you mean put a post in the centre of the carriageway so that people keep to their own side? ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on June 22, 2010, 02:35:39 pm
Nothing needed on Dixon Hill Road those votes must be from BP residents speeding home!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PCSO Luxford on June 22, 2010, 08:06:41 pm
The local officers for Welham Green are aware of the speeding vehicles but thank you for your post.  ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 13, 2010, 12:22:25 pm
Message to the young man driving a grey/black VW who overtook me on Bluebridge Road this morning.

Never break the speed limit to overtake a vehicle that is observing the speed limit - especially in a built up area.

Not only are you breaking the speed limit, but you are also driving too fast down the wrong side of the road past drives and turnings.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 19, 2010, 09:41:17 am
According to the Herts Mercury, speed cams are going to escape local authority cuts.

http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Herts-speed-cameras-escape-cutbacks.htm (http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/Herts-speed-cameras-escape-cutbacks.htm)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: PS on November 19, 2010, 10:52:28 am
That's because they are money spinners !!

You NEVER cut 'costs' if they are likely to more than lose the money you expect to save.

Perhaps they should INCREASE their budget for speed cameras ??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 17, 2011, 10:51:12 am
Is this a first?  Being overtaken on the bend at the junction of Bluebridge and Oaklands ( by the URC ) heading into the village?  I've been overtaken lower down Bluebridge before, but never at such a dangerous spot.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 17, 2011, 11:14:42 am
Not related to Dave's posting but Herts Highways are proposing a 40mph limit on Station Rd where it is currently no limit, also adjusting the limit of the 30mph zone.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 17, 2011, 04:02:24 pm
Not related to Dave's posting but Herts Highways are proposing a 40mph limit on Station Rd where it is currently no limit, also adjusting the limit of the 30mph zone.

Where is this bob?  Do you mean in Welham Green (I thought it was all 30) or furhter along between Brookmans Park and Welham Green?  What is their arguement for this and why do we need it?  There are no houses along there, there is an existing pavement so people don't need to walk in the road and there have been no crashes on that stretch for as long as I can remember.

The highways agency seems to be putting more and more of these 40 zones in and it appears to me to be a blanket reduction by stealth almost...

What are the particulars that govern when they can lower speed limits?

Aidan
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: chicken legs on October 17, 2011, 04:29:53 pm
40mph is fast enough for the stretch between Welham Green and Brookmans Park, with its bends, doctors' surgery entrance, bus stops, etc.  The pavement is not very wide, and it's quite scary walking along it with cars inches away going very, very fast.  Also, as a link between the villages, it's an ideal route for cycling and a speed limit might make it safer.  We keep putting on pressure for a cycle path, without success so far.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 17, 2011, 05:00:48 pm
40mph is fast enough for the stretch between Welham Green and Brookmans Park, with its bends, doctors' surgery entrance, bus stops, etc.  The pavement is not very wide, and it's quite scary walking along it with cars inches away going very, very fast.  Also, as a link between the villages, it's an ideal route for cycling and a speed limit might make it safer.  We keep putting on pressure for a cycle path, without success so far.
100% agree Chicken Legs, trouble is who takes any notice of speed limits, the not very bright among us work on the basis that if the there is no chance of prosecution then they dont conform.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on October 17, 2011, 05:36:43 pm
I walk along Station Road several times a week and the speeding is ridiculous.  Cars often end up on the wrong side of the road due to the bends so only a matter of time before there's a serious accident I think.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Local Walker on October 17, 2011, 09:30:56 pm
Whilst on the subject of Station Road, could traffic lights be put on the tight bridge and bend? It sometimes makes me cringe seeing buses and traffic at the same time trying to negotiate them.

This same problem occurred at the Chequers until the lights were introduced there.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 18, 2011, 02:52:28 pm
Not related to Dave's posting but Herts Highways are proposing a 40mph limit on Station Rd where it is currently no limit, also adjusting the limit of the 30mph zone.

Where is this bob? 
Aidan

From the BP station bridge 30mph sign to Welham Green at the Catholic church, the section which currently has no speed limit.  I agree wiith the comments from others, and add that it is a bit dodgy turning right out of Badmore Lane due to the bend restricting the sightline.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Ferdie on October 18, 2011, 04:59:49 pm
Totally agree Bob, except perhaps the junction being a 'bit dodgy', an understatement methinks, the number of near misses I've seen there...
 
 
... it is a bit dodgy turning right out of Bradmore Lane due to the bend restricting the sightline.

Definately something needs to be done there unless you are a giraffe or can see around corners!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Strad on October 19, 2011, 09:27:29 am
Quote
From the BP station bridge 30mph sign to Welham Green at the Catholic church, the section which currently has no speed limit.

No speed limit or 60mph?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on October 19, 2011, 11:42:07 am

No speed limit or 60mph?

Not read the Highway Code for many years but I thought they were the same on that type of road.



edited to correct quote
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on October 31, 2011, 10:10:19 am
Dear Watch Member,

Two motorists were driving over 60mph and over 150 warning letters were sent out to drivers going over 35mph in a 30mph limit in Welwyn Garden City recently. 

"These two drivers would have gone straight to court and most likely have been disqualified,"* said PCSO Kate Blenkin who carried out speed monitoring with the digital speed indication device in Valley Road, Parkway and Applecroft with PCSO Rose Montalbano.

She said: "We will follow up with the speed monitoring with speed enforcement operations where speeding motorists can expect three points and a £60 fixed penalty notice - or be summoned to court for excessive speed. Anyone seen not wearing their seat belt or using their mobile phones whilst driving will also be fined."

"We carried out the speed monitoring at a variety of times during rush hour in the morning and afternoon," said PCSO Blenkin.  "The worst place was Valley Road between 9am and 10am towards the town and away from the town at 4pm.  Speeding is one of the current Handside Neighbourhood Priorities because residents have told us it is a problem.  During the day about 10 residents thanked us for carrying out the checks and we assured them, this would be followed by speed enforcement."

She said: "We hope this helps gets the message across that we are tackling this issue and acts as a deterrent to speeding motorists.  The 30mph limit is there for a reason in built up areas for the safety of pedestrians and other road users.  We want to help make sure we prevent any road traffic collisions or serious injuries on the roads in Welwyn Garden City."

* The officers were only able to issue warning letters to the two drivers doing in excess of 60mph as they were using the speed indication device - if the drivers and anyone else is caught excessively speeding during the speed enforcement this week, they will be summoned directly to court.

 

If you need to reply by email click on my address here: cmmail@herts.pnn.police.uk.

Regards,
Community Messaging
Hertfordshire Constabulary
Neighbourhood Watch
Email: cmmail@herts.pnn.police.uk
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 02, 2011, 06:33:14 pm
I suggest you send a few of your people to Broomans Park for a week. Then you could break all the records for the most speeding convictions in Hertfordshire.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on November 03, 2011, 05:24:38 pm

"We will follow up with the speed monitoring with speed enforcement operations where speeding motorists can expect three points and a £60 fixed penalty notice - or be summoned to court for excessive speed. Anyone seen not wearing their seat belt or using their mobile phones whilst driving will also be fined."
If this was applied to Brookmans Park, then the traffic would be decimated!  :mblah05:
PC Plod - "Come on down here asap and fill yer boots!"
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 03, 2011, 06:17:31 pm
wouldnt it be great if we were able to name and shame the reckless drivers on here?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 03, 2011, 07:21:18 pm
I was out on one of my walks on Tuesday, and  the first 3 cars I saw the drivers were on the Mobile phone. I can Honestly say that during a 2 hour walk, I saw at least 12 people on mobiles plus a couple more having a coffee/tea break whilst driving.

I agree, with the other comments on here. Come down to brookmans Park and fill your boots with on the spot Fines the Herts Police will make a Mint.  As regards naming and Shaming what a great Idea, Jenson Button would be put to shame on Blubridge road on a Good Day.   One person who lives in Welham Green and Drives a B***K Car  Reg No *** ** nearly killed himself and the car driver in front whilst doing at least 70mph  by The doctors surgery in Potteralls. I had my camera phone ready to film the aftermath.  Point is when I see this little Boy Racer come out of his House he will get a mouthful at least from me.  The strange thing is most of the crashes are on the bend  by Potterills.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 03, 2011, 08:08:17 pm
I was out on one of my walks on Tuesday, and  the first 3 cars I saw the drivers were on the Mobile phone. I can Honestly say that during a 2 hour walk, I saw at least 12 people on mobiles plus a couple more having a coffee/tea break whilst driving.

I agree, with the other comments on here. Come down to brookmans Park and fill your boots with on the spot Fines the Herts Police will make a Mint.  As regards naming and Shaming what a great Idea, Jenson Button would be put to shame on Blubridge road on a Good Day.   One person who lives in Welham Green and Drives a B***K Car  Reg No *** ** nearly killed himself and the car driver in front whilst doing at least 70mph  by The doctors surgery in Potteralls. I had my camera phone ready to film the aftermath.  Point is when I see this little Boy Racer come out of his House he will get a mouthful at least from me.  The strange thing is most of the crashes are on the bend  by Potterills.
probably know who you mean, wasnt that the little s... who got a talking to in the fish and chip shop by a few people concerned about his driving couple of years back?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 04, 2011, 12:29:23 pm
He is the One!    He had blue lights under his car, like the ones used by the police. It looked like a police car in the dark. Dont know if the little B*****D has till got them on his car.  We also have a Barry Sheene here in Moffats Lane who I know for a fact will not come Home one Day due to his driving. ;D
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on November 04, 2011, 12:40:22 pm
I think the problem with 'naming and shaming', apart from the fact it's not allowed, is 'innocent till proven guilty'.  After all somebody could have a grudge against someone, say they've driven recklessly when they really haven't.

As you said Therock, and have said before, about Station Road - just a matter of time I feel
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 04, 2011, 03:06:25 pm
I think the problem with 'naming and shaming', apart from the fact it's not allowed, is 'innocent till proven guilty'.  After all somebody could have a grudge against someone, say they've driven recklessly when they really haven't.

As you said Therock, and have said before, about Station Road - just a matter of time I feel
Thats correct Angel, its not allowed, so how do you propose the problem is dealt with then? because the current regime in place isnt working is it.

The main contributors on this site will always find the negative in a positive, everyone has a view but melt when it is suggested we do something.

the mindset is to always find a problem where there is a opportunity, it should be  the contrary we have the opportunity to find the problem.

we musnt be afraid to fail.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on November 04, 2011, 03:45:56 pm
Thats correct Angel, its not allowed, so how do you propose the problem is dealt with then? because the current regime in place isnt working is it.

I don't really have an answer larrylamb but I do think that it's a bit daft of the police to ever annouce when they are going to be doing speed checks.  If people already have points on their licence, then maybe a driving ban would be a good idea for following offences. 
I'm sure Therock would be happy for the police to observe from the front of his house!  ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on November 04, 2011, 04:06:25 pm
I do think that it's a bit daft of the police to ever annouce when they are going to be doing speed checks.

I'm not so sure.

I think many people speed because they know that 99% of the time they will get away with it.

Just as people slow down when they see brightly coloured speed cameras (even though most are inactive at any one time) if people think the police are actively seeking out speeders, drivers will slow down. The primary objective (I hope) is for people to drive safely, not to catch and fine speeders.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 05, 2011, 06:51:42 am

The main contributors on this site will always find the negative in a positive, everyone has a view but melt when it is suggested we do something.

the mindset is to always find a problem where there is a opportunity, it should be  the contrary we have the opportunity to find the problem.

we musnt be afraid to fail.

Bit of a harsh generalisation, larrylamb. However, If you are suggesting that a name and shame campaign is a positive and an opportunity then I am guilty of seeing the negatives.

In answer to the question of what should be done, tougher law enforcement would be my response.  Allowing members of the public to name and shame (accuse of criminal activity) other members of the public on a public forum is not a good idea.

This could lead to defamation and libel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation), which would be breaking the law. And it's probably not a great idea to break the law to enforce the law.

(By the way, I am merging this thread with an existing thread regarding speeding on local roads because, although WGC is outside of the immediate patch, this thread is developing into a general discussion about speeding which is already ongoing elsewhere. Merging the threads will keep similar discussions together for future reference.)

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 05, 2011, 11:38:07 am

The main contributors on this site will always find the negative in a positive, everyone has a view but melt when it is suggested we do something.

the mindset is to always find a problem where there is a opportunity, it should be  the contrary we have the opportunity to find the problem.

we musnt be afraid to fail.

Bit of a harsh generalisation, larrylamb. However, If you are suggesting that a name and shame campaign is a positive and an opportunity then I am guilty of seeing the negatives.

In answer to the question of what should be done, tougher law enforcement would be my response.  Allowing members of the public to name and shame (accuse of criminal activity) other members of the public on a public forum is not a good idea.

This could lead to defamation and libel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation), which would be breaking the law. And it's probably not a great idea to break the law to enforce the law.

(By the way, I am merging this thread with an existing thread regarding speeding on local roads because, although WGC is outside of the immediate patch, this thread is developing into a general discussion about speeding which is already ongoing elsewhere. Merging the threads will keep similar discussions together for future reference.)

David
well done David, confirmation that you only see the negatives. so we have gone from the hypothetical " just witnessed white Jaguar reg no ........ driving at around 50mph down moffats" To the potential defamination/libel court case, surely you can only be found guilty of libel if you have lied.

Many forum websites protect and distance themselves from defamation/libel etc with disclaimers, this provides for a more honest debates without shackles.

I dont doubt that every user of this forum would welcome tougher law enforcement  which would render naming and shaming uneccersay, but it isnt going to happen is it, so your idealist theory falls at the first hurdle.


 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 05, 2011, 12:20:16 pm
LarryLamb, I backed a horse last week that FELL at the 1st Hurdle.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 05, 2011, 12:45:17 pm
LarryLamb, I backed a horse last week that FELL at the 1st Hurdle.

was the horse called "idealist theory" running at the narrow vision event?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 05, 2011, 12:59:49 pm
I sense an element of trolling going on, which is not really welcome on a community site. And, incidentally, against the forum rules.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 05, 2011, 03:03:14 pm
I sense an element of trolling going on, which is not really welcome on a community site. And, incidentally, against the forum rules.
[/quote ;)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 16, 2011, 04:13:12 pm
Are you aware of this consultation regarding Bluebridge Road? See:

https://consult.hertsdirect.org/blue-bridge-road/

Final date for comments is 25 November

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 16, 2011, 04:44:37 pm
waste of time money and effort, the majority of drivers will abide by the limits set only if it is going to cost them points on their licence or cash in fines.

most drivers dont understand that the limits are there to protect others.

A senior Police officer friend of mine told me, "hit a child in excess of the speed limit, its extremely likely you will end up in prison"
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2011, 05:04:54 pm
Are you aware of this consultation regarding Bluebridge Road? See:

https://consult.hertsdirect.org/blue-bridge-road/

Final date for comments is 25 November


Thanks for sharing, Bob. I personally like the recommendation for a pedestrian crossing over Bluebridge Road at Bradmore Green and doing away with a parking bay to make it happen.  I have seen many elderly people struggling to cross that road. However I can see that going down like a lead balloon with many. The vehicle v pedestrian battle could get heated.

By the way I saw an amazing display of silly speeding at the bottom of Moffats this morning. A black Porche (I took the number) entered Moffats from Bluebridge and took off belching out exhaust smoke (the car needs a service) and making an awful row (the car still needs a service) and must have left it to about number 20 before changing gear.  What was more remarkable was that there were builders' vehicles and cars parked on both sides, so this was done with limited space. If a child or an animal had walked out it would have been carnage.

If would be great to have Moffats in the next group of roads to be considered; the idiots are at it day and night.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 16, 2011, 05:40:27 pm
I have seen the same A****e Driving his Porsche<, cant wait for the pillock to smash into me. Then he will have to sell his house when I sue Him.         Moffats Lane as we have said in the past is getting beyond a joke, I can name 3 cars in particular that need a visit by the Police. I have started to park my car in the road now, dont care about who hits it or scratches it at least it stops these Pillocks going fast.

As someone said its just a matter of time before somebody gets  involved in  a serious accident at the bottom of Moffats, Its a shame the police dont park down there  for a couple of Hours,   Then I am quite sure the police Coffers would be full to the Brim after Nicking people for speeding,   use of phone,   Dangerous driving, etc>  Go On Policemen Give it a Proper Trial, and show us the results on here.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2011, 06:16:45 pm
I have started to park my car in the road now, dont care about who hits it or scratches it at least it stops these Pillocks going fast.

Good idea. I think that could help. The trouble is that many who do park on the road at the bottom end of Moffats do so with at least half of the car straddling the pavement.  It's as if cars are more important than people - they don't want the car to get hit but people on foot sometimes have to walk in the road to get past the vehicle blocking their way.

Perhaps a ban on parking on the pavement and forcing the drivers to ensure all four wheels are on the road would help?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: E the T on November 16, 2011, 06:50:05 pm
Wouldn't it be just easier to make the main (or all of the) roads of the village 20mph. That way if you are clocked at +40mph your chances of significant points or a ban go up significantly?

Looking at the consultation document above I can't see how arsing about with better signage is going to make a jot of difference if the existing signs are ignored.

Uncontrolled crossing, presumable this is a zebra crossing or an island in the middle of the road? Feels a bit fraught given cars seems to see how fast they can go by the time they get to the Brookmans, why not make it a controlled / pelican crossing?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: epiphany on November 16, 2011, 07:32:37 pm
Perhaps a ban on parking on the pavement and forcing the drivers to ensure all four wheels are on the road would help?

Is this not already illegal?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2011, 07:38:11 pm
Perhaps a ban on parking on the pavement and forcing the drivers to ensure all four wheels are on the road would help?

Is this not already illegal?

The Highway Code, rule 244 states...

Quote
244
You MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so elsewhere unless signs permit it. Parking on the pavement can obstruct and seriously inconvenience pedestrians, people in wheelchairs or with visual impairments and people with prams or pushchairs.
[Law GL(GP)A sect 15]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: E the T on November 16, 2011, 08:25:15 pm
I have started to park my car in the road now, dont care about who hits it or scratches it at least it stops these Pillocks going fast.

Sorry to pop a fly in the ointment, whilst I agree with the sentiment the same regs also say the below, so I would imagine the amount you're going to sue him for is only going to be matched by his counter claim or claim from someone else as it would seem that the obstruction you cause is intentional and unnecessary.

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

That said if Brian were to start selling the stinger things that pop car's tyres I'd be first (well maybe second) in the queue

Note: Edited to fix quote box.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 16, 2011, 09:03:21 pm
Sorry to pop a fly in the ointment, whilst I agree with the sentiment the same regs also say the below, so I would imagine the amount you're going to sue him for is only going to be matched by his counter claim or claim from someone else as it would seem that the obstruction you cause is intentional and unnecessary.

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

Surely parking a car legally in the road (i.e. not on the pavement and facing the right way) does not come under the category above.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on November 16, 2011, 09:18:00 pm
............Its a shame the police dont park down there  for a couple of Hours,   Then I am quite sure the police Coffers would be full to the Brim after Nicking people for speeding,   use of phone,   Dangerous driving, etc>  Go On Policemen Give it a Proper Trial, and show us the results on here.

Seconded.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on November 16, 2011, 09:44:57 pm
Are you aware of this consultation regarding Bluebridge Road?

I fail to see how the proposed painting of "Edge lines" and new "Centre Lines" in Bluebridge Road will act as a speed deterrent. Can anyone enlighten me how this works? We all know basically that it will further fund Mr White Line Paint Man's 2012 holiday fund.
Could Sumeet Singh (Project Engineer) also explain/comment on here? He must be on a very, very good salary and I for one want value for the money I pay him.

However, IMO the Bradmore Green "uncontrolled crossing point" pedestrian type crossing is a good proposal.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: E the T on November 17, 2011, 10:26:17 am
Sorry to pop a fly in the ointment, whilst I agree with the sentiment the same regs also say the below, so I would imagine the amount you're going to sue him for is only going to be matched by his counter claim or claim from someone else as it would seem that the obstruction you cause is intentional and unnecessary.

You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]

Surely parking a car legally in the road (i.e. not on the pavement and facing the right way) does not come under the category above.

Possibly not... but possibly in the pc world of construct an argument out of anything (see £17k for cats etc) as the going by what the owner of the car has said that his car has been left out intentionally to slow other cars down, i.e cause an obstruction. When that car could have been on a drive or garage (where it is probably insured overnight), i.e unnecessarily so. Just a thought.

I have though been toying with the idea of getting a little radar gun from Amazon (a very reasonable £40 and which according to the folks who've used it and compared it to police radar guns in the US seem pretty much spot on) just to see exactly how fast people are going. (In particular a convertible Aston Martin)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 17, 2011, 10:47:52 am

... going by what the owner of the car has said that his car has been left out intentionally to slow other cars down, i.e cause an obstruction. When that car could have been on a drive or garage (where it is probably insured overnight), i.e unnecessarily so. Just a thought.


Yes, it possibly could get complicated. We never park our cars outside the house other than the times when we have family visiting or when we are shifting them about. But the fact is it's not illegal to park on the road (as long as the vehicles is facing the right way - which many are not).

I'd be interested to hear what the various police officers who use this forum think.  I have three questions I'd love to know the answers to.


I would have thought that any day they could issue dozens of tickets and generate much needed revenue.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Local Walker on November 17, 2011, 10:52:19 am
  • Why do the police not put tickets on cars parked facing the wrong way?

Where do cars face the wrong way?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: E the T on November 17, 2011, 10:54:27 am
From recollection from the Highway Code I think you aren't supposed to park within 15 feet of a turning or junction
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: jet on November 17, 2011, 11:09:49 am
In the good old days the reason that it was illegal to park on the wrong side of the road at night was twofold.
One, a drivers lighta would illuminate the reflectors on the rear of the parked car ( the front of usually dark painted cars would not show up until too late).
Two the common sense fact that it involed crossing to the wrong side of the road twice, when parking and driving away.
Common sense really, squeekkk ( attempt at Meercat sound)
It is often the fact in London that the pavement is marked to encourage drivers to park, in part, on the pavement to increase the road width.
I guess this sets a precedent and makes parking on pavement legal. Damaging the pavement is another matter.
Anything that entails a fine is purely to extort money as it only affects the less well off.
It was always illegal to park on or near junctions, corners etc. Whole clear roads that are "no parking" for no good reason frustrate motorists.
If driving was made pleasant, if people who transgressed were relieved of their licences, then this expensive means of transport would be enjoyable.
Perhaps if bad driving was not made attractive by stupid films, stupid TV programmes and stupid advertising we would all benifit.
You got to realise though that the authourities are infested with non achieving control freaks.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 17, 2011, 09:13:05 pm
A dear Friend of mine who is 95 years of age and her husband aged 93 visit me on a regular basis, and on certain occasions park their Car with One or maybe 2 wheels on the pavement. This is so they can get the wheelchair out of the car and have easy access to my door. So I hope that this Adhears to the rules of the Road Traffic Act, and people dont mind a few golden oldies doing a bit of dodgy parking, even though the car was facing the wrong way!!!!. And the strange thing is she has never had a Traffic accident in 70 years, and never had a driving Test...
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 17, 2011, 09:18:34 pm
A dear Friend of mine who is 95 years of age and her husband aged 93 visit me on a regular basis, and on certain occasions park their Car with One or maybe 2 wheels on the pavement. This is so they can get the wheelchair out of the car and have easy access to my door. So I hope that this Adhears to the rules of the Road Traffic Act, and people dont mind a few golden oldies doing a bit of dodgy parking, even though the car was facing the wrong way!!!!. And the strange thing is she has never had a Traffic accident in 70 years, and never had a driving Test...
Are they old school friends?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 18, 2011, 12:54:50 pm
Believe it or Not  Mr Lamb, but they were when they were Younger!. Just happy she does not drive a Big Car.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on November 18, 2011, 07:56:07 pm
...........And the strange thing is she has never had a Traffic accident in 70 years, and never had a driving Test...

Strange indeed....but maybe she has left a trail of destruction in her wake!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on November 19, 2011, 12:13:30 pm
I doubt that> The speed she drives even the local milk float overtakes her, and thats with a Flat Battery.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on November 19, 2011, 04:45:15 pm
Parking on the pavement (or partly on it) is ticketable unless its marked that you can.

My old street in Totteridge was prone to a bit of that.

One day Plod turned up and nailed the whole street-about 60 cars. Be warned.

BP
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bob Horrocks on November 24, 2011, 02:08:37 pm
I have now found the link to the consultation on proposed changes to signage etc on Dixons Hill Road.  Closing date for comments seems to be 30 November.  The link is https://consult.hertsdirect.org/dixons-hill-hatfield/
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on January 06, 2012, 07:41:09 pm
Is this a first?  We were driving down Brookmans Avenue towards the village tonight when we were overtaken as we crossed one of the speed bump.  The vehicle in question seemed to suffer from the experience but carried on at speed. Has anyone else experienced this? 

 ::)
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on January 06, 2012, 10:49:46 pm
Nope...happened to us about 6 months ago....was v funny when they hit the bump as they scraped the bottom of the car. They hit it at about 30 ish....hey ho....bp
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on January 09, 2012, 05:42:22 pm
Not uncommon at all; I was overtaken driving down Moffats Lane between Christmas and New Year.  In the dark.

A
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on February 26, 2012, 08:48:29 am
I have put a new poll on this thread following a suggestion that a 20 mph scheme for Brookmans Park village is needed.

The suggestion was posted in the thread about whether there should be a pedestrian crossing in the village (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,2298.msg28481.html#msg28481).

In order to keep the two threads focused (this on speeding the other on crossing) I have republished a poll that had been running for a few years and expired some time ago.

The poll was about traffic calming in local villages. Of the 92 people who voted, 28% wanted flashing warning lights, 18% wanted speed cameras and 12% wanted road humps. There were other options mentioned such as chicanes and mini roundabouts. Five percent didn't think there was a problem.

I have now republished the poll (at the top of every page in this thread) in order to see if the mood has changed.

David

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: HAWC145 on February 26, 2012, 03:32:56 pm
I have said speed humps, only if they are the full with of the road.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on February 26, 2012, 04:06:39 pm
Voted for 20 mph speed limit in Br Pk and this should apply for surrounding villages too.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alex on February 26, 2012, 09:14:13 pm
Bedlam, 40 mph is good lets do it!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on February 27, 2012, 07:54:00 pm
Voted for 20 mph speed limit in Br Pk and this should apply for surrounding villages too.
I was walking up Moffats Lane the other day when a car went down doing probably 40 - 45 mph so just because there's a speed limit, a lot of speeding drivers will continue to ignore it.  So, in theory it sounds good but not sure it would work without some other system in operation as well.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Rocket on March 08, 2012, 12:02:41 pm
Well the Uncontroled Zebra Crossing is going to be built just South of the Bus Stop Shelter in Bradmore Green. The notices have been put up in the area.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Aidan Winwood on March 08, 2012, 04:48:59 pm
Well the Uncontroled Zebra Crossing is going to be built just South of the Bus Stop Shelter in Bradmore Green. The notices have been put up in the area.

This will not make much difference either, it's not a Zebra-crossing where cars are required to give way, it is seemingly a dropped curb and rumble strip either side, with a traffic island in the middle. 

A
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: saffie on March 10, 2012, 02:04:25 pm
I can't see that a zebra crossing there will help as if I was using this to go to school you then still have to cross the green or by the co-op which is equally dangerous. 

But at least it's something I suppose
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 15, 2012, 02:05:07 pm
Once again the owner of this Black Aston Martin car has took it upon himself that Moffats Lane is a Test Track for high speeds. This morning the PRAT reached a speed in my estimation of 70mph going down the hill in Moffats Lane.  I ran into the road after he passed and gave him a v sign and wished that he would have stopped, because he would have got molre than that from me. This man is a DANGER to everyone especially people reversing there cars out into the road. If you are the driver of the car I will get your number and report you to the POLICE without hesitation because you are One dangerous speedster, and you need to be brought down to a level, before you KILL someone.  You have been warned. If you need to make a case of it  you can get my number from this site.I would love to meet you!!   THEROCK
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 15, 2012, 06:24:37 pm
Once again the owner of this Black Aston Martin car has took it upon himself that Moffats Lane is a Test Track for high speeds. This morning the PRAT reached a speed in my estimation of 70mph going down the hill in Moffats Lane.  I ran into the road after he passed and gave him a v sign and wished that he would have stopped, because he would have got molre than that from me. This man is a DANGER to everyone especially people reversing there cars out into the road. If you are the driver of the car I will get your number and report you to the POLICE without hesitation because you are One dangerous speedster, and you need to be brought down to a level, before you KILL someone.  You have been warned. If you need to make a case of it  you can get my number from this site.I would love to meet you!!   THEROCK

If we had  local Police regularly patrolling the area at random hours with Speed Guns then these offenders would soon be captured.

Having a 'Speed Chec'k only once every 3 or 6 months doeesn't realistically pose a deterrent, does it??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 15, 2012, 06:33:20 pm
I ran into the road after he passed and gave him a v sign

Cor, bet he was scared witless and now cannot sleep at nights!!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 15, 2012, 07:54:54 pm
Bedlam, I don't give a **** about if the driver is shivering in his boots or whatever !  Lets hope he does not smash into your car, or through your gate or kill  someone.  Sarcasm  by the way just goes in one lug and out of the other.   I will get the blokes number for sure, and then the old bill will be on case.  Ps mind the roads bedlam he might be  behind you!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 15, 2012, 08:33:40 pm
Once again the owner of this Black Aston Martin car has took it upon himself that Moffats Lane is a Test Track for high speeds. This morning the PRAT reached a speed in my estimation of 70mph going down the hill in Moffats Lane.  I ran into the road after he passed and gave him a v sign and wished that he would have stopped, because he would have got molre than that from me. This man is a DANGER to everyone especially people reversing there cars out into the road. If you are the driver of the car I will get your number and report you to the POLICE without hesitation because you are One dangerous speedster, and you need to be brought down to a level, before you KILL someone.  You have been warned. If you need to make a case of it  you can get my number from this site.I would love to meet you!!   THEROCK
yes ive seen the car, i think the driver has learning difficulties. here is my top ten serial speeders.

1) White Jag.
2) black Porsche Cayenne
3) black Aston
4) white 1 series BMW
5) red m series Bmw
6) black 1 series Bmw
7) Silver X5
8 ) blue Golf
9) gold Saab
10) green Polo

seven of the above have children - make of that what you will.


Edited to change code so number shows instead of a smilie!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on October 15, 2012, 09:12:44 pm
I think driver number 10 above could be higher on the list if only he had a better car.

To be fair, if I had a Polo I too would drive through the village as fast as possible so nobody saw or recognised me.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 15, 2012, 10:27:26 pm
I think driver number 10 above could be higher on the list if only he had a better car.

To be fair, if I had a Polo I too would drive through the village as fast as possible so nobody saw or recognised me.


Her.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 16, 2012, 01:39:00 pm
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Now The driver of the car lives in Moffats Lane. Lets see how fast he drives now shall we!!!!  This discussion has been going on for year regarding speeding. Georges Wood Rd residents have done something about it, The Avenue have donse something about it.        But we in Moffats Lane have to do things a little different. Until these speedsters are nicked and shamed then Maybe just maybe will it raise a few eyebrows!!    If they want to kill themselves by doing outragous speeds thats fine, but its the innocent that always has to pay the price. Look how many smashes and cars that have been overturned or ended up in bushes or hit a tree in this area over the years.  I like the list that Larrylamb has done but the Aston Martin is the fastest car I have seen going down Moffats in 11 years, and the Prat driving it was no Youngster as well.   
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 16, 2012, 08:16:17 pm
I will get the blokes number for sure, and then the old bill will be on case...................

Ps mind the roads bedlam he might be  behind you! 

I very, very much doubt if Plod will take any interest or actions whatsoever.    ::)

If he's behind me then he'll be driving within the speed limit and driving at even less if he happens to be tail-gating me!!! ;D

However, there are some drivers that try to show-off their driving skills by making nice engine/zorst sounds from accelerating and doing tidy downshifts whilst approaching the sharp right on the bridge.
The '07.30am white Maserati with loud Zorsts' is music to my ears as he blips the throttle whilst double de-clutching approaching the bend, he does not speed, but seems a proper skillfull driver who drives nicely. Nice.

Strangely, there's no mention of the motorbikes that scream through the village. The weekends brings more bikers travelling through the village. Most are noisy tools, but some do respect the village and it's residents.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on October 16, 2012, 11:05:18 pm

If we had  local Police regularly patrolling the area at random hours with Speed Guns then these offenders would soon be captured.


regular patrols at random hours? I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 18, 2012, 10:49:02 pm

If we had  local Police regularly patrolling the area at random hours with Speed Guns then these offenders would soon be captured.


regular patrols at random hours? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

OK, welcome to the Pedantic Posters Club, I'll change 'regular' to 'frequent' HTH
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Trent on October 19, 2012, 07:56:22 am
The speed humps in Mymms Drive and Brookmans Avenue are very effective, they have however just 'shoe horned' all the speedsters into Moffats Lane. I think speed humps there would resolve the problem!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 19, 2012, 07:04:15 pm
The speed humps in Mymms Drive............

There are no Speed Humps in Mymms Drive, unless they were placed there yesterday afternoon.

However, the road surface of Mymms Drive is so bad it has it's own natural speed limitations.  :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 19, 2012, 07:25:52 pm
The speed humps in Mymms Drive............

There are no Speed Humps in Mymms Drive, unless they were placed there yesterday afternoon.

However, the road surface of Mymms Drive is so bad it has it's own natural speed limitations.  :icon_jokercolor:
Another joins the pedantic posters club :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on October 20, 2012, 08:09:16 pm
The speed humps in Mymms Drive............

There are no Speed Humps in Mymms Drive, unless they were placed there yesterday afternoon.

However, the road surface of Mymms Drive is so bad it has it's own natural speed limitations.  :icon_jokercolor:
Another joins the pedantic posters club :icon_jokercolor:

Au contraire, a founder member m8.   :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 23, 2012, 03:02:56 pm
Will be going along to the Police surgery on the 7th November, to have word about a certain numberplate I have, and the fanatic that drives the car at riproaring speeds. It may save a serious accident from occuring if someone has a word with Mr Formula One.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 23, 2012, 04:40:49 pm
Will be going along to the Police surgery on the 7th November, to have word about a certain numberplate I have, and the fanatic that drives the car at riproaring speeds. It may save a serious accident from occuring if someone has a word with Mr Formula One.

Hi Therock, that is more than two weeks away. If this person is driving dangerously, should you not pass on the information sooner?  Particularly if you are genuinely worried that their driving could cause 'a serious accident'.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Trent on October 23, 2012, 06:37:02 pm
Sorry, I of course meant GWR...... The speed some of the cars come along Moffats Lane is worrying me too.  I've noticed a lot of the drivers seem to be sixth form age....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 24, 2012, 01:04:02 pm
Yes David, I sent the information to our local Community officer by Message. But I will go along to the meeting on the 7th just to confirm my worries regarding said driver.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 19, 2013, 12:46:19 am
Could this be one for the Brookmans Park Residents Association (BPRN) (http://www.brookmansparkra.org/) and the Welham Green Residents Association (WGRA) (http://www.welhamgreen.org/?page_id=93)?


From The Police and Crime Commissioner for Hertfordshire...

Quote
Worried about speeding through your village, street or neighbourhood?
Now you can get actively involved by volunteering to run a Community DriveSafe scheme. DriveSafe works differently from previous neighbourhood speed initiatives – communities will be empowered to ensure the safety of their local area by coming together and being given the means to take action themselves.

http://www.hertscommissioner.org/news/campaigns/community_drivesafe.aspx (http://www.hertscommissioner.org/news/campaigns/community_drivesafe.aspx)

And here is the link to the petition (http://www.hertscommissioner.org/docs/Commissioner's%20Drivesafe%20Campaign%20Petition.docx), embedded as a pdf below.

http://www.brookmans.com/news/august13/Commissioner's%20Drivesafe%20Campaign%20Petition.pdf (http://www.hertscommissioner.org/docs/Commissioner's%20Drivesafe%20Campaign%20Petition.docx)

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 22, 2013, 12:39:18 am
Any thoughts from the Brookmans Park Residents Association (BPRA) whether running a petition to combat speeding on local roads (above) is worth taking on?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on August 22, 2013, 07:53:11 am
Yes, it is, but we're doing other things at the moment and a few members on hols.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on August 22, 2013, 08:46:03 am
Yes, it is, but we're doing other things at the moment and a few members on hols.

Great, I think a lot of work has been put into this already, so when the pressure is less and people back from hols the petition mentioned and embedded two posts up (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,23.msg33831.html#msg33831) might be worth doing. 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 11, 2013, 07:01:58 pm
I have just seen the new signs on Georges Wood Road - and there are lots of them.

One reads: 20 MPH No Excuses!

Isn’t this extremely rude?  Why the "No Excuses!" bit? It makes driving into Bookmans Park feel like entering a vigilante state. Who is enforcing this?

 :icon_scratch:

By the way, this week I was overtaken on Georges Wood road while doing 30 mph (before these new signs were put up).
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on October 12, 2013, 04:44:12 pm
Whether the 20mph limit is official and enforceable I don't know, but with the speed humps I doubt I want to go above 20 anyway out of sympathy for my car's suspension  :icon_jokercolor:

I don't think it's particularly rude and if it improves safety (remember there are no pavements) then fair enough.

Dave, like you, I have been overtaken at well over the legal limit on local roads. I'm not sure any limit would help this if 30mph is so blatantly disregarded by a small minority of motorists.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 12, 2013, 04:53:39 pm
I don't think it's particularly rude and if it improves safety (remember there are no pavements) then fair enough.

I don't mind the 20mph bit, but the tone of the rest of the message "NO EXCUSES!" seems unecessarily aggressive.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on October 13, 2013, 06:05:23 pm
I try not to drive down that road anyway-too many bumps to slow you down.

Mimms is the way forward IMHO

BP
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on October 14, 2013, 10:19:54 pm
Whether the 20mph limit is official and enforceable I don't know,

Depends who erected them. Highway and Local Authorities are responsible for ensuring correct standards of signing on their roads; only they can erect traffic signs or permit their erection.

Below is a direct extract of the DoT Traffic Signs Manual

1.18 The use on Public highways of non-prescribed signs which have not been authorised by, or on behalf of, the Secretary of State, is illegal and Authorities who so use unauthorised signs act beyond their powers. Additionally, an unauthorised sign in the highway is an obstruction. The possible consequences of erecting or permitting the erection of obstructions may be severe and those responsible could lay themselves open to a claim for damages; for example if the obstruction is the cause of accident or of injury in a collision or if the unauthorised sign injuriously affects a fronting property by blocking light or impairing visual amenity.

Give the additional wording of "No Excuses" I would be amazed if these were placed by a relevant authority. The people responsible are exposing themselves to civil action and would make the enforcement of the actual 30mph limit more difficult as all sorts of defenses may now arise.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Conor on October 15, 2013, 09:50:34 am
Georges Wood Road is a private road, not a public highway so presumably the rules are different?

Conor
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on October 15, 2013, 06:47:10 pm
there is still a 30 mph sign up just at the entrance.

bp
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on October 15, 2013, 10:26:42 pm
Georges Wood Road is a private road, not a public highway so presumably the rules are different?

Being private does not exclude the location from much of the Road Traffic Act. Drink driving for example can be committed on a petrol station forecourt and would definitely apply to GWR.
However Traffic signs need to be on or near a road and the definition of a road is tighter, although can include a private road open to the public.

I would have thought any infringement on this private/public road would mean a civil prosecution rather than a criminal one and therefore not likely.

One thing is for sure, you don't need road tax for GWR, just good suspension.


 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2013, 10:57:35 am
Interesting experience regarding speeding. I was driving through Brookmans Park at 30mph and the car behind came right up close at speed and then continued to follow far too close for safety. My keeping within the speed limit seemed to be annoying the driver. When we got to Georges Wood Road and the new 20 mph limit I slowed down to comply. The car behind was still too close and I sensed pushing me to go faster. Then it indicated and pulled out by one of the humps - I thought it was about to overtake - but I was wrong. The car turned into one of the drives on Georges Wood.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: slimgym on November 12, 2013, 11:42:36 am
I think that's pretty much what police find when they run speed checks (prompted by local residents) - a different group of local residents are the worst offenders.

Having driven up behind you for such a short distance and then turned into a drive, I wonder what the driver would have done with the half a second they may have saved? A shame they're not clever enough to work out how little time is saved and how a collision could become unavoidable through speeding. The roads would be a safer place if the penny would drop!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on September 09, 2014, 06:52:45 am
Thought I had seen it all until Sunday when a male driver of a black Range Rover was driving up GWR whilst overtaking and texting. Then last night two cars were racing up GWR around 10.30 side by side with a third vehicle closely following!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 09, 2014, 07:07:12 am
Thought I had seen it all until Sunday when a male driver of a black Range Rover was driving up GWR whilst overtaking and texting. Then last night two cars were racing up GWR around 10.30 side by side with a third vehicle closely following!!

We clearly need more signs to warn them that there will be no excuses.   ;)

The worst I had was being pressed by a car as I drove down GWR at 20mph and then overtaken by the same car which promptly slammed on the brakes and drove onto one of the drives. I have seen the vehicle several times, so I am guessing it's a GWR resident who doesn't feel the rules apply to him/her.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on September 09, 2014, 09:13:21 am

We clearly need more signs to warn them that there will be no excuses.   ;)


I don't think signs will make any difference.

If anyone sees such things then I'd suggest trying to take a photo (or preferably video) with their phone and pass the footage to the Police.

Hopefully Bill McCaskie can comment on what best to do.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 09, 2014, 11:11:02 am
I have tweeted and copied in @HertsPolice (https://twitter.com/HertsPolice) to make sure they are aware.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on September 09, 2014, 12:07:10 pm
We clearly need more signs to warn them that there will be no excuses.   ;)

Good call there is no excuse for not having enough signs. ;)


Note: Edited to fix quote box
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mr Green on September 09, 2014, 02:24:18 pm
Then last night two cars were racing up GWR around 10.30 side by side with a third vehicle closely following!!
S.59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 is aimed at anti-social driving & riding. Unlike typical endorsable offences like speeding, it can be used by PCSOs. It would cover two vehicles racing each other along a road and results in a warning being attached to both driver and vehicle. If, within a rolling year, the driver (in any vehicle) or the same vehicle (driven by anybody) drives inconsiderately and anti-socially again – then it (the second vehicle if different) can be seized. Great piece of legislation, hugely underused.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on September 09, 2014, 04:38:17 pm
Do the speed bumps make any difference?? when 2 cars are driving side by side?????
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on September 09, 2014, 08:31:44 pm
Do the speed bumps make any difference?? when 2 cars are driving side by side? ??? ?
Its makes a difference in that the speed they can achieve is reduced thankfully.

I agree with Mr Green that the law is ineffective in this regard.

Its not just the speed which is the obvious danger, its the noise from these so called performance exhausts, whats that all about?? reminds me of my dads old Anglia when the exhaust fell off!! embarrassing!! 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on September 09, 2014, 09:16:57 pm
Strange things is having lived round BP for 14+ years I don't think I have ever seen or heard of anyone fined for speeding, and the rate that they fly through the streets amazes me. Oooops forget they a yearly speed trap wonder what the results of that are per year. Not much I presume.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: William McCaskie on September 30, 2014, 04:35:27 pm
Today, along with my colleague PCSO Samantha Griffin we used the speed indicator display screening device to monitor traffic speeds along Station Road, Welham Green, and Bluebridge Road, Brookmans Park. This followed complaints from local residents about speeding on these roads.

The speed indicator system is not used to issue fixed penalty notices, it's a tool to show drivers that they are travelling over the lawful speed limit. It also gives us the opportunity to stop offending drivers and give them some advice regarding their driving.

I stopped four vehicles traveling at speeds of 39, 41, 41 and 41 mph in a 30mph limit area, and, guess what, they were all Brookmans Park residents. I would hope that all residents in Brookmans Park would give some thought regarding the speed you drive at in your own village. I will be working closely with traffic officers in the future to fine speeding drivers who will also receive points on there licences.

These roads are used by bikes, horses and children walking along the pavements. Please obey the speed limit and let's hope that next time I do speed checks its only motorists passing though our village who are guilty of breaking the speed limit and not local residents. 

[Note: Edited to merge with an existing thread on this topic.]
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on September 30, 2014, 05:55:52 pm
Thanks Bill, I merged this with an existing thread on the topic and tweeted.

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on September 30, 2014, 07:29:25 pm
Today, along with my colleague PCSO Samantha Griffin we used the speed indicator display screening device to monitor traffic speeds along Station Road, Welham Green, and Bluebridge Road, Brookmans Park. This followed complaints from local residents about speeding on these roads.

The speed indicator system is not used to issue fixed penalty notices, it's a tool to show drivers that they are travelling over the lawful speed limit. It also gives us the opportunity to stop offending drivers and give them some advice regarding their driving.

I stopped four vehicles traveling at speeds of 39, 41, 41 and 41 mph in a 30mph limit area, and, guess what, they were all Brookmans Park residents. I would hope that all residents in Brookmans Park would give some thought regarding the speed you drive at in your own village. I will be working closely with traffic officers in the future to fine speeding drivers who will also receive points on there licences.

These roads are used by bikes, horses and children walking along the pavements. Please obey the speed limit and let's hope that next time I do speed checks its only motorists passing though our village who are guilty of breaking the speed limit and not local residents. 

[Note: Edited to merge with an existing thread on this topic.]
I have spoken with inspector Ian Grout about the speeding in GWR where we have no pavements and requested that speed checks be undertaken whenever practical. unfortunately on the day that a PC was sent and stood in full uniform at the roadside in full view of passing traffic for a full 15 minutes not one vehicle was engaged in excessive speed, surprise surprise!  the officer reported back and I quote from the Inspector " Pc Ross has stood with you and monitored the cars and believes they are not speeding" that was in December 13, I do not believe there has been any further police activity in this regard on GWR.


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on September 30, 2014, 10:37:16 pm
Was that before or after the addition of speed humps? I would have thought those humps would slow people down.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 01, 2014, 09:00:27 am
Was that before or after the addition of speed humps? I would have thought those humps would slow people down.
Post speed humps.

 Modern vehicles can achieve huge speeds in short distances. Around 50% of those who use the road dont and wont accept the principle of why there are speed limits and are happy to break the law, which does make you wonder what other laws they think dont apply to them??

Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: John_fraser on October 01, 2014, 10:39:44 am
I have commented before that the best way to get drivers to observe the speed limit is to give the parents who live on the road three rocket launchers. After the first two are used the third would never need to be fired.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: William McCaskie on October 01, 2014, 04:16:02 pm
We tried to set up the speed indicator display board on GWR yesterday but unfortunately the battery had run out. We will be looking at this road in the near future. As you say though while we are there vehicles will slow down.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alex on October 02, 2014, 04:43:44 pm
Please advise what the "official" speed limnit is on GWR
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 02, 2014, 06:07:09 pm
Please advise what the "official" speed limnit is on GWR
20 MPH there are lots of signs.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: BrookyP on October 02, 2014, 07:03:05 pm
I thought that 20mph was an advisory as its a private road and its 30mph nationally.


cant really get over 15mph with the bumps anyway so its academic.


anyone know?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Angel on October 02, 2014, 07:21:20 pm
Please advise what the "official" speed limnit is on GWR
20 MPH there are lots of signs.

I saw the signs yesterday when I walked up there, it says 'enforced' I think and I wondered who enforces them.
 ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 02, 2014, 08:03:15 pm
The people who pay for the road repairs and signs and speed bumps in GWR it comes out of there pocket, but they get nothing in return. Shame they cant make people who take a short cut pay a TOLL. that would cut he traffic problem out.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alex on October 02, 2014, 09:12:19 pm
 ;D

Larry,

wrong! it's 30mph if you can do it!!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: ADM on October 03, 2014, 12:26:00 pm
Good luck explaining to anyone you stop that there's a 20 mph advisory speed limit (unenforceable) and a 30 mph speed limit (not signed but could be enforceable? - no signs?  private road?).

Wouldn't it be more productive to target Bluebridge Road?  You might even be able to pinch someone.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 03, 2014, 01:40:58 pm
Good luck explaining to anyone you stop that there's a 20 mph advisory speed limit (unenforceable) and a 30 mph speed limit (not signed but could be enforceable?

But it does state clearly that there are no excuses.   ???
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Therock on October 03, 2014, 02:03:19 pm
The place to target, for speeding cars, hand held telephones and other Mad road antics is between Welham Green and the Railway Bridge at Brookmans Park. God the law Enforcers would have a field day especially with People on the phones. Go On I dare you Mr Traffic Man.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 03, 2014, 04:23:45 pm
Good luck explaining to anyone you stop that there's a 20 mph advisory speed limit (unenforceable) and a 30 mph speed limit (not signed but could be enforceable? - no signs?  private road?).

Wouldn't it be more productive to target Bluebridge Road?  You might even be able to pinch someone.
The test of dangerous driving in law is to be regarded as dangerous if the way he drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver or it would be obvious that driving in that way would be dangerous.

With clear compliant signage warning drivers of the potential hazards in GWR, that being - school, no pavements, pedestrians in roadway, and at night fall, poor vision, if you was involved in a accident that was deemed your fault the speed limit displayed could be of little consequence in prosecution.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: GGDT on October 06, 2014, 01:40:29 pm
Strange things is having lived round BP for 14+ years I don't think I have ever seen or heard of anyone fined for speeding, and the rate that they fly through the streets amazes me. Oooops forget they a yearly speed trap wonder what the results of that are per year. Not much I presume.

I've been nicked and fined for speeding on Bluebridge Road, got 3 points as well.

This was in 1988 though!
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: GGDT on October 06, 2014, 01:44:36 pm
I have spoken with inspector Ian Grout about the speeding in GWR where we have no pavements and requested that speed checks be undertaken whenever practical. unfortunately on the day that a PC was sent and stood in full uniform at the roadside in full view of passing traffic for a full 15 minutes not one vehicle was engaged in excessive speed, surprise surprise!  the officer reported back and I quote from the Inspector " Pc Ross has stood with you and monitored the cars and believes they are not speeding" that was in December 13, I do not believe there has been any further police activity in this regard on GWR.

I thought the police had to be in full view when manning a speed trap? If they hid behind a bush and jumped out at the last minute it would be classed as entrapment.

Same principle with the static speed cameras, they're painted yellow so drivers can see them as they're approaching.

The whole point is to give a visible signal to drivers that they need to observe the speed limit, not just to raise funds through fines.

Note: Edited to fix multiple quote boxes.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 06, 2014, 09:08:23 pm
I thought the police had to be in full view when manning a speed trap? If they hid behind a bush and jumped out at the last minute it would be classed as entrapment.

Same principle with the static speed cameras, they're painted yellow so drivers can see them as they're approaching.

The whole point is to give a visible signal to drivers that they need to observe the speed limit, not just to raise funds through fines.
And that is why at least five people die on our roads every day because the police have to operate under these restrictive practices. I dont see anything wrong with "entrapment", only those who break the rules/law and suffer the consequences have anything to fear.

Ive said it before people think it is ok to use excessive speed until someone they care for is a victim of the crime.

Note: Edited to fix multiple quote boxes.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: GGDT on October 07, 2014, 10:53:23 am
And that is why at least five people die on our roads every day because the police have to operate under these restrictive practices. I dont see anything wrong with "entrapment", only those who break the rules/law and suffer the consequences have anything to fear.

Ive said it before people think it is ok to use excessive speed until someone they care for is a victim of the crime.

Is it not better to stop people from speeding in the first place by having a visible police presence?

What if the speeder runs a small child over because he's going too fast while the policeman is hiding behind a bush?

Sure the driver will get arrested and charged but the small child would still be alive if the policeman had been visible in the first place.

Prevention should be the most important thing here IMO.

Note: Edited to fix multiple quote boxes.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on October 07, 2014, 01:06:59 pm
Is it not better to stop people from speeding in the first place by having a visible police presence?

What if the speeder runs a small child over because he's going too fast while the policeman is hiding behind a bush?

Sure the driver will get arrested and charged but the small child would still be alive if the policeman had been visible in the first place.

Prevention should be the most important thing here IMO.

Using your rationale the incentive not to speed by those who otherwise would only works whilst a officer is present which as we know is far too infrequent, so for the other 364 days of the year the reckless get away with inappropriate speed which is exactly what happens.
 
If those same reckless drivers knew that the police could be hiding anywhere then the threat of prosecution is constant, not just when officers are visible.

Note: Edited to fix multiple quote boxes.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on October 07, 2014, 01:32:55 pm
I have edited the four posts prior to this one because multiple quote boxes had been used, which made it hard to follow the discussion. Now the previous contribution being quoted is visible in the quote box.

David
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: GGDT on October 07, 2014, 03:57:49 pm

If those same reckless drivers knew that the police could be hiding anywhere then the threat of prosecution is constant, not just when officers are visible.


I think we all know that there will never be enough police officers available visible or otherwise to stop some drivers putting their foot down and chancing it.

Put a visible officer somewhere for a week though and I gaurantee that anyone who sees him manning a speed trap will think twice about driving quickly past that particular location for a good while though.

This is what used to happen at the bottom of Bluebridge Avenue but I can't remember seeing a speed trap there for years.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 11, 2014, 05:37:59 pm
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: William McCaskie on November 11, 2014, 09:51:09 pm
I have been following this conversation with some amusement. To do speed enforcement the officer has to wear a high visibility coat and to stand near the kerb facing the direction of the vehicles with the radar laser pointing at the number plate area of the car as it approaches him. The laser can register the speed of the vehicle from nearly two hundred yards away. If the gun is shaking or moves at all it will not pick up the speed of the approaching vehicle. The idea that you could jump out from bushes or from behind hedges and catch out the poor unsuspecting (speeding) driver is wrong. We are not there to catch out motorists we also issue warnings and advice if the driver is doing under 35mph in a 30mph limit. At the end of the day we want to reduce accidents and make sure all road users are safe ie pedestrians, children crossing and horse riders.     
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 11, 2014, 10:26:36 pm
I have been following this conversation with some amusement. To do speed enforcement the officer has to wear a high visibility coat and to stand near the kerb facing the direction of the vehicles with the radar laser pointing at the number plate area of the car as it approaches him. The laser can register the speed of the vehicle from nearly two hundred yards away. If the gun is shaking or moves at all it will not pick up the speed of the approaching vehicle. The idea that you could jump out from bushes or from behind hedges and catch out the poor unsuspecting (speeding) driver is wrong. We are not there to catch out motorists we also issue warnings and advice if the driver is doing under 35mph in a 30mph limit. At the end of the day we want to reduce accidents and make sure all road users are safe ie pedestrians, children crossing and horse riders.     
"catch out the poor unsuspecting (speeding) driver is wrong" ??? ??
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on April 05, 2015, 10:47:55 am
Villager are setting up "Speedwatch" groups to monitor vehicles speeds, have we got one? If so I would like to volunteer.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Strad on April 06, 2015, 09:29:47 am
There has been talk about setting up a speedwatch group in Welham Green for around four years, but nothing has been arranged so far.
A number of people have been keen to volunteer, but the relevant authority has done nothing to move the idea forward.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on April 07, 2015, 10:31:55 am
Villager are setting up "Speedwatch" groups to monitor vehicles speeds, have we got one? If so I would like to volunteer.
Good luck Bootneck, I hope you find some volunteers.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on April 07, 2015, 10:38:29 am
We need the local authority and police on board so if there out there and want to help please get in touch
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Strad on April 07, 2015, 01:52:03 pm
So far, the police appear to be completely disinterested, at least as far as Welham Green is concerned.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: sasquartch on April 07, 2015, 02:15:01 pm
How do these work ?

I'd be very uncomfortable with civilians being able to issue speeding fines.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on April 07, 2015, 08:41:52 pm
Have a look at their website speedwatch
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Strad on April 07, 2015, 10:15:52 pm
Sasquartch, civilians are not able to issue speeding tickets.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: chicken legs on April 08, 2015, 10:54:14 pm
I often wonder about having an HGV watch on Dixons Hill Road.  When I see an HGV going through I do stop and gaze fixedly at the reg no, hoping to frighten the driver.  Would we need the police and local authority involved to arrange some coverage of this sort?  Maybe a couple of people standing at the cross roads with clip boards taking down numbers and company names.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on April 09, 2015, 07:25:48 am
I agree HGV breaking 7 ton limit every day prime time 0800 onwards. If you have a look at the Speedwatch website there is equipment required and a police officer in attendance who has the power to prosecute offenders. White van man is also ignoring speed bumps. Come on local Mr policeman
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: LMS on April 09, 2015, 03:24:25 pm
I totally agree, the size of some of the vehicles going through the village is frightening. I have mentioned this problem several times to the police, but nothing seems to be done about it. I have been known to wave my walking stick at speeding or large vehicles, but I don't think they care, they probably drive away laughing, and all I've achieved is to embarrass my daughter.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: chicken legs on April 09, 2015, 08:26:06 pm
Although we wouldn't be able to prosecute, if we took registration number and company name, we could at least report the drivers to their employers which might have a deterrent effect over time.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Alex on April 09, 2015, 09:26:52 pm
Leave it to the police, what are you trying to do?  Vigilantes went out with Roy Rogers and Trigger!


Alex

 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on April 09, 2015, 11:21:31 pm
Leave it to the police, what are you trying to do?  Vigilantes went out with Roy Rogers and Trigger!


Alex

 
The police are ineffective hence why the problem exists - good luck to those who are trying to make a difference.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: William McCaskie on April 10, 2015, 04:46:48 pm
I have spoken to Pcso GRiffin who covers Welham Green. She has been made aware by some residents that they wish to set up a speedwatch group for the village. 10 people need to sign up and the group leaders need to be   crb checked. Councillor Pieri has all the details and a registration form for the scheme.
Information on this scheme is on the police and crime commissioners website.
Myself and Sam have done speed enforcement in both Brookmans park and Welham green and will continue to do so in the future.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: bootneck on April 10, 2015, 06:41:23 pm
If you believe there are vehicles speeding at more than the 30mph limit in your area please use this petition to gather support from your community. Once the petition is completed, with at least 10 names of people who live in separate addresses in the speeding locality, please emailit (preferentially) to:commissioner@herts.pnn.police.uk (commissioner@herts.pnn.police.uk)or post to:Hertfordshire Police and Crime Commissioner, Harpenden Police Station, 15 Vaughan Rd, Harpenden, Herts. AL5 4GZ.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: William McCaskie on July 21, 2015, 12:15:47 pm
This morning I was on Bluebridge Road Brookmans park with Pc Wicks with the hand held speed gun. 10 vehicles were stopped with the average speed being 38mph.One vehicle was stopped doing 47mph. We then moved on to Hawkshead road were we have also received complaints of speeding vehicles. Again another 10 drivers were stopped doing well over the 30mph limit.
Please be advised that when I can get an officer to assist me we will be doing more regular checks around the village. Please drive to the advised speed limits especially now that the school children are out and about on there summer holidays.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on July 21, 2015, 05:40:13 pm
Good to see - were those responsible issued with a fixed penalty?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on July 25, 2015, 11:46:44 pm
Good to see - were those responsible issued with a fixed penalty?
Seconded
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on July 25, 2015, 11:57:37 pm
IMO position your speed gun by the Brookmans Park Railway Station  bridge towards the Brookmans, especially at weekends and capture the regular 40/50/60 mph speedsters aiming to reach top speed before reaching the bend after the bridge. You'll have a field day and will need a new note-book and batteries for the speed gun!
But TBH I doubt that you will ever target this hot-spot for speeding in the village, AFAIK it has never been done before.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on July 26, 2015, 12:09:38 pm
Agreed. Then the insidious would claim police persecution.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on July 27, 2015, 08:27:52 pm
The person who reaches 40+ mph in Station Close would be first in my book.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on July 27, 2015, 08:48:30 pm
This morning I was on Bluebridge Road Brookmans park with Pc Wicks with the hand held speed gun. 10 vehicles were stopped with the average speed being 38mph.One vehicle was stopped doing 47mph. We then moved on to Hawkshead road were we have also received complaints of speeding vehicles. Again another 10 drivers were stopped doing well over the 30mph limit.
Please be advised that when I can get an officer to assist me we will be doing more regular checks around the village. Please drive to the advised speed limits especially now that the school children are out and about on there summer holidays.

Hi William, Please disclose how many speeding drivers were issued Speeding Tickets and/or Fixed Penaties for speeding during this operation.....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Lynnfedarb on November 02, 2015, 06:35:12 pm
Hertfordshire Constabulary is looking for volunteers to take part in the Drivesafe campaign.

This is made up of a number of volunteers (at least 10) to take out a speeding board to various locations within the area, to highlight the speed at which vehicles are travelling.
Warning letters will then be send out to those drivers driving above the required speed limit.

I understand that speeding in the village is an issue, so hopefully we will be able to come up with a number of volunteers to take part.

If you or anyone you know would like to help with this, please email me on lynn.fedarb2@herts.pnn.police.uk and  I will give further details.

Many thanks
PCSO Lynn Fedarb
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Bedlam on November 02, 2015, 06:56:54 pm
Hertfordshire Constabulary is looking for volunteers to take part in the Drivesafe campaign.

This is made up of a number of volunteers (at least 10) to take out a speeding board to various locations within the area, to highlight the speed at which vehicles are travelling.
Warning letters will then be send out to those drivers driving above the required speed limit.

I understand that speeding in the village is an issue, so hopefully we will be able to come up with a number of volunteers to take part.

If you or anyone you know would like to help with this, please email me on lynn.fedarb2@herts.pnn.police.uk and  I will give further details.

Many thanks
PCSO Lynn Fedarb


So how do we apply ? Without this information we cannot contribute/offer our services.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 02, 2015, 07:06:32 pm
I understand that speeding in the village is an issue, so hopefully we will be able to come up with a number of volunteers to take part.

Thanks Lynn. I’ve tweeted in case that helps find volunteers.


I've also added the Herts Drivesafe page below...

Hertfordshire DriveSafe
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 02, 2015, 07:07:44 pm
So how do we apply ? Without this information we cannot contribute/offer our services.

Check Lynn's post, relevant section copied below.

If you or anyone you know would like to help with this, please email me on lynn.fedarb2@herts.pnn.police.uk and  I will give further details.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on November 02, 2015, 07:50:22 pm
This is something that the Brookmans Park Residents' Association is currently looking into and we have invited Lynn to come and address a meeting. Our next meeting coincides with our AGM on Thursday 26th November, 8.00pm at the BP URC, all members welcome.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 02, 2015, 07:53:57 pm
Our next meeting coincides with our AGM on Thursday 26th November, 8.00pm at the BP URC, all members welcome.

Hi Mermaid, is it just for members or can anyone turn up? And will you add it to the diary when it's all confirmed, please?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on November 03, 2015, 11:35:59 am
Hi Mermaid, is it just for members or can anyone turn up? And will you add it to the diary when it's all confirmed, please?

Hi Dave, I had just added it to the calendar and linked it to a post, but just in case anyone hasn't seen the AGM post, yes, all residents are welcome, but only members of the BPRA can vote.

I have just heard from Lynn that she is able to attend our meeting on the 26th, so we are looking forward to hearing all the details about DriveSafe 
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on November 05, 2015, 04:50:59 pm
Constabulary is looking for volunteers to take part in the Drivesafe campaign.

This is made up of a number of volunteers (at least 10) to take out a speeding board to various locations within the area, to highlight the speed at which vehicles are travelling.
Warning letters will then be send out to those drivers driving above the required speed limit.

I understand that speeding in the village is an issue, so hopefully we will be able to come up with a number of volunteers to take part.

If you or anyone you know would like to help with this, please email me on Lynn.Darb2@hearts.Penn.police.UK and  I will give further details.

Many thanks
PCSO Lynn Darb

This initiative is very welcome, however this only deals with one element of major concern on our roads. what are your initiatives for those using hand held devices whilst driving, poorly maintained vehicles, tailgating etc etc. In my experience and what I witness at least one in three drivers on average are either texting or have a phone held to their ear.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on November 05, 2015, 05:01:18 pm
This initiative is very welcome, however this only deals with one element of major concern on our roads. what are your initiatives for those using hand held devices whilst driving, poorly maintained vehicles, tailgating etc etc. In my experience and what I witness at least one in three drivers on average are either texting or have a phone held to their ear.

Agreed, it seems to me some people are simply ignoring the law and the highway code. There is also a lack of consideration for others, highlighted by Larry when he mentions tailgating, a particular problem when Moffats is single file traffic at rush hour. Also, some think it acceptable to park in the road blocking others around Bradmore Green while they nip into the shops. This is happening more and more often, even when there are parking places available - it seems the drivers can't be bothered pulling in and expect others to wait behind their stationary vehicles. At least some put their hazard lights on to show that they have created a traffic problem.  ::)   But there is another thread about parking so I will raise this point there if people want to comment.
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on November 26, 2015, 03:37:10 pm
A reminder that our PCSO Lynn Fedarb and a colleague will be coming tonight to the Brookmans Park URC to talk about Community DriveSafe,  immediately after the BPRA AGM.

If you cannot make the AGM at 8.00, there will be refreshments at 8.45 and then the talk on Community DriveSafe at 9.00pm.

Park carefully in the Church car park and no speeding on the way  ;)


Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on December 02, 2015, 10:44:07 am
A big thank you to Lynn and her colleagues for coming to talk to residents about the Community DriveSafe scheme and for bringing the equipment for us to look at. The scheme is advisory only, and is used for collecting data as evidence of a speeding problem in an area. In Bishops Stortford, where it has been running for some time, it has been instrumental in having traffic calming measures installed.

The scheme relies on volunteers and a minimum of 10 volunteers are required of which 2 must be Lead Volunteers. The 2 Lead Volunteers will be the point of contact for the police and will be responsible for collecting and returning the equipment and submitting the evidence in good time. It is good practice to have at least 4 volunteers at the site, as evidence needs to include not just the speed, but also the make, model, colour and number plate of each car.

Based on the evidence, speeding drivers will get a letter from the police. If they are caught again, there will be another letter, but caught a third time they will receive a visit from an officer.

To get this going we need to submit a petition to the Police and Crime Commissioner's office with at least 10 names on it and a list of speeding locations. You can sign and nominate a location, but you do not have to be a DriveSafe volunteer to sign the petition.

Now we need people to sign the petition, people to volunteer, and a list of locations. The list of locations can be put on here - we already have Bluebridge Road - petition signees and volunteers can contact me direct through brookmansparkresidentsassoc@gmail.com
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on December 02, 2015, 06:34:10 pm
To get this going we need to submit a petition to the Police and Crime Commissioner's office with at least 10 names on it and a list of speeding locations. You can sign and nominate a location, but you do not have to be a DriveSafe volunteer to sign the petition.

Thanks Mermaid, can the petition be put online for people to sign?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Mermaid on December 02, 2015, 09:08:11 pm
Thanks Mermaid, can the petition be put online for people to sign?

No it can't, it's not the usual type of petition which aims to capture as many signatures as possible. We just need a minimum of 10 people at different addresses to trigger a successful application (we have that already), then the important part is to have at least 10 volunteers with 2 Lead Volunteers, and this is what we're appealing for. We need replies through brookmansparkresidentsassoc@gmail.com and then we'll organise a meeting for all the volunteers
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: larrylamb on January 22, 2016, 02:28:52 pm
Can I ask how this is progressing?

Thanks
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: Editor on December 16, 2016, 02:22:39 pm
I do like the green smiley face sign welcoming careful drivers to Brookmans Park. The new sign on Bluebridge Road even displays your speed as you enter the village. Not sure the person driving behind me and trying to push me to go faster was that impressed, though. I wonder what the sign would have displayed if they had been in front of me?
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: epiphany on December 16, 2016, 02:52:14 pm
Probably something like A**hole....
Title: Re: Speeding along local roads
Post by: pinchefalise on December 17, 2016, 09:27:56 pm
It's good to see the new signs - they do at least make you notice your speed. It's a pity they don't also show how many points would be taken off your licence if caught by the police, as the signs in French villages do.