Brookmans Park Newsletter Community Discussion Forum

General Discussion Boards => Environment => Topic started by: Bob Horrocks on February 04, 2002, 07:05:59 pm

Title: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 04, 2002, 07:05:59 pm
A long standing problem nationally as well as in this area, unfortunately.  The problem is catching someone in the act.  Apart from laziness, a major cause is the Landfill Tax which has had the opposite effect from what was intended.  The District Council is increasing its workforce for this type of work, apparently, but as soon as one lot is cleared it frees up the spot for another load of rubbish.

The Green Belt Soc has recently suggested to the District Council the use of earth banks such as those used to deter gypsies.  
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 07, 2002, 03:30:37 pm
One of the biggest causes of fly-tipping is smaller-scale building works on residential properties.   New kitchens & bathrooms, knocking through rooms, extensions, loft conversions, conservatories, etc.   In a lot of cases the person who's having the work done is looking around for a "good price".   How often does that person check as to whether or not his builder's pushing up his profit-margin by cutting corners in getting rid of the rubbish ?!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on February 09, 2002, 08:20:40 pm
A bath has been deposited in the ditch on the south side of Bradmore Lane at the village end.
I suspect that fly-tippers do not use baths.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: rognjac on February 21, 2002, 10:20:05 am
For a number of years, a part of my work with a neighbouring borough was to arrange for prosecutions against fly-tippers, seen either by my staff or members of the public.

Can I therefore give the following tips to any one who sees a flytipper in action. First of all, try and remember as much about description of the individual(s) as you possibly can, together with details of any vehicle being used - index number, make, colour etc., plus the materials being dumped.

If you can get a photograph of the vehicle/individual without putting yourself at risk, then do so.

DO NOT remonstrate with the fly-tipper - some of these individuals do not like to be engaged in polite conversation!

Most important, make notes of what you have seen as soon as practicable, and keep your notes somewhere safe. If you are called as a witness at Court, the defence would love to call the reliability of your memory into question.

Finally, report the matter to Welwyn Hatfield Council, for them to investigate and apply for a summons against the perpetrator.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 22, 2002, 03:28:09 pm
Dear Rog 'n Jac
I'd be interested to know what your success rate was in the neighbouring authority ?   For example, what number of prosecutions you started on average each year, what percentage of all the tidying-up tasks that had to be done, what percentage of prosecutions were successful, and what was the order of fine/ term of imprisonment, etc ?
Thanks very much indeed  -  I'm sure this would be a useful context for us all
Regards
Eric
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: rognjac on February 26, 2002, 06:01:19 pm
Dear Eric

I should explain that my work with fly-tipping prosecutions was 6+ years ago, but I don't think too much has changed in the interim.

On average, we were initiating about one prosecution per month for this offence - may not sound much when you compare with, say, parking offences, but the obtaining of good evidence is that much more difficult. For a start, council officers are not empowered to demand offenders' names and addresses. For this reason, most prosecutions were those involving motor vehicles. In those instances the council has the power to obtain from the DVLA the details of the vehicle owner, and it is an offence for the owner not to disclose who was driving at the time of the alledged offence. We then interviewed that person under caution.

It is something of a grey area to be able to prosecute on the basis of evidence found in the rubbish, such as letterheads etc., unless, when interviewed, the suspect admits the offence.

Fines normally were around £200-£250, with costs added at about the same level.

The value of a succesful prosecution, and most were  succesful, (and still are), was from the subsequent publicity in the local paper, who I always tipped off prior to the hearing.

Roger
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 27, 2002, 10:50:09 am
Dear Roger
Thank you very much for your guidance.
For my own benefit  -  it seems that what you're saying is that for the whole of one entire Local Authority area, one legal case per month was being taken out, mainly against car dumpers (so only 2 ? rubbish dumpers each year).   If a case was successful, the sanction was £250 and a bit in the paper  (so the dumper was probably losing less than 2% of the money he/she was making, and not caring too much about being in the paper ?).
Sounds as if we are all on a hiding to nothing with these people.  How depressing.
And more depressing if it's true that most rubbish-dumping takes place within a mile of origination.   Might this fit in with correspondence elsewhere in the Forum that the character of the neighbourhood has swung away from the "truly rural" and become the "urbanised fringe"  -  with no real farms or pubs, few "local" shops, everyone commuting, cars everywhere, 90% of shopping from superstores, vandalism ranging from trespass, theft, bonfires, traffic feuds and smashed-up-shelters, endless house extensions & "improvements",  and so on.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.   What if anything can really be done folks ?
Regards  -  Eric

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: rognjac on February 27, 2002, 04:58:54 pm
Dear Eric

Re-reading my last posting I think I could have made myself clearer!

When I referred to "motor vehicles", I meant rubbish dumping from a motor vehicle, not abandonment of the vehicle itself, which is a whole different area as regard legislation etc.

We used the involvement of a vehicle to gain access to the dumper him/herself. In so doing we successfully prosecuted for dumping of anything from a 20 ton load of soil, down to  fast food wrapping thrown from a car.

But yes, you are quite right, an average of one prosecution a month is minute compared to the overall size of the problem. I have checked with my old colleagues, and they have still not mananged to improve upon this rate - and this is for a London Borough, with all the added problems of illegal trade refuse generated by large numbers of shops and businesses.

Roger
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on March 05, 2002, 10:36:04 pm
Just seen the caravan at Warrengate, complete with aware notice, beyond belief, now if we could bodge up the car parts and the caravan we could cobble together a circus attraction.
sorry to be sarky,
jet
p.s. when dumped cars are left outside the dump and scrapyard and no one takes them in what chance have we got. "Its more than my jobsworth"?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on April 17, 2002, 07:24:12 pm
I noticed on Sunday that some kindly person has dumped a lot of fern branches in station road on the ground opposite the cub hut. I also seem to remember seeing a couple of blokes doing a lot of cutting of the same sort of tree on Friday, right at the end of Moffats Lane where it meets Mymms Drive.

Does anyone who's cleverer than me know whether it's possible to prove that those fern branches came from those trees? I know that dumping tree branches is not quite in the same league as dumping half a car, but it is still fly tipping...

Just a thought

James
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on April 17, 2002, 08:32:41 pm
Just an observation....but if the people who cut the tree down had a bonfire then there wouldn't be this problem... ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on April 17, 2002, 08:42:01 pm
Dear S,
Carefull, you are getting as sharp as me, lets not cut ourselves, nice one :) :) :) :)
jet
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 02, 2002, 05:39:19 pm
The Welwyn Hatfield Times says members of the public have voted Woodside Lane in Bell Bar the worst blackspot in the District for fly tipping.  Click here for details (http://www.brookmans.com/news/october02/rubbish2.shtml)  
Click here (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/archived/2002/wk40_2002/news/asp/pride.asp) for the WHT article.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 14, 2003, 05:54:46 pm
It seems as though the fly tippers are taking advantage of Bradmore Lane being closed to traffic while the bridge repairs are carried out -- all traffic that is other than fly tipping traffic.  One fly tipper has even blocked half the road by just dumping tree trimmings in the lane.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march03/blfly2.jpg)
(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march03/blfly3.jpg)
(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march03/blfly1.jpg)
Worth avoiding if you are going for a walk or a bike ride.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: trinity on December 09, 2003, 03:33:29 pm
Is anyone here good at "integrating" electronic hardware ? And making it waterproof.

I'm thinking of an infrared motion detector coupled to a camcorder, with a battery for power. Small enough to hide in a bush or somesuch around that part of Bradmore Lane where it goes between the trees. Given the amount of junk that gets dumped there, whoever is responsible has to use a vehicle, and getting the registration might help the police a little.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 09, 2003, 03:55:13 pm
Quote
I'm thinking of an infrared motion detector coupled to a camcorder, with a battery for power. Small enough to hide in a bush or somesuch around that part of Bradmore Lane where it goes between the trees. Given the amount of junk that gets dumped there, whoever is responsible has to use a vehicle, and getting the registration might help the police a little.

Hi Trinity, this issue was raised at a meeting of North Mymms Parish Council in March.

Click here to read the full story. (http://www.brookmans.com/news/march03/fly13.shtml)

It might be worth talking to Bob Horrocks, a North Mymms Parish Councillor, and Hon Sec of the North Mymms and District Green Belt Society about how far the NMPC has got before you invest in any kit. Bob is a regular on this site, so he might answer directly.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: john on December 10, 2003, 10:31:22 am
and not forgetting that we at RVC are frequently on the receiving end of anti-social behaviour in and around Bradmore Lane (wish we could put the money we are obliged to waste on tidying up other peoples fly-tipping, in to other environmental improvements) ...

We looked in to portable camera kits (with digi-capacity, infrared, remote recording, etc) several years ago but the problem continues that a video is probably not enough to secure a conviction.   Equally the advice was:
~  if the quantity is a Transit-van full, then it's probably come from a house-improvement by someone in the immediate neighbourhood (surely not BP ... ?)
~  if lorry ... it's long-distance ... with professionals ... equipment ... and "attitude" ...

It's a thorny one and don't those Bs know it !




Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: trinity on December 10, 2003, 12:37:02 pm
Has anybody kept a record of when these things appear ?

I suppose the burnt-out vehicles and such are yobbos from Hatfield, but if the (larger) amounts are being dumped from any distance it might be possible to discern some sort of pattern. Add that to an electronic alerting mechanism and it just might be worth some police time to be ready for them.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 10, 2003, 02:06:18 pm
For those who haven't seen what people are talking about, here is a picture taken on Wednesday 10 December of the recent fly tipping in Bradmore Lane.

There is a complete bathroom suite, chairs, beds, and cupboards (enough to furnish a small bedroom), bags of building waste, household waste, and garden waste.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/december03/tipping.jpg)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: steve on December 10, 2003, 04:19:54 pm
the main cause of these dumpings are the increase in costs of skips. I have also tried to dispose of furniture for customers to be told by the dump that no vans are allowed. For us to dispose of one sofa or bed costs £30 minimum which most people don't want to pay. This load pictured would have cost approx £150 to dispose of. This looks more like the work of a builder or developer cutting costs. If you are having work done on your house try to check where your rubbish is being dumped.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 10, 2003, 04:29:48 pm
Good point Steve.

We had some quotes for a wall to be rebuilt. One builder's quote included a skip to dispose of the old wall. When I asked the second builder about whether his quote included a skip he said no, he would use his van to remove the old bricks. I wonder where the bricks would have ended up if I had gone for his quote?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 11, 2003, 01:55:58 am
The Parish Council is to report this dumping to Welwyn Hatfield Council, after it was raised at the Parish Council meeting this evening (Wed 10 Dec).  

Bradmore Lane has been free from dumping for some time until now.  I thought it was the extra traffic using the lane while Warrengate Rd/Hawkshead Lane has been closed off for the flood prevention work.  But the louts could not resist it, could they.

The Green Belt Soc offered to fund a mobile spy camera (if not too expensive) in letters to Welwyn Hatfield Council.  They have not had the couresy to reply.

In WH Times some months ago the WH Council were reported to have bought a spy camera, but has any one seen it in action?  Thought not.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on December 11, 2003, 11:34:57 am
Quote
In WH Times some months ago the WH Council were reported to have bought a spy camera, but has any one seen it in action?  Thought not.


Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: john on December 12, 2003, 10:34:47 am
Dear Editor (David):  please don't always assume that the proposed/ actual use of a skip means that its contents will actually go to a registered dump ...
Equally we shouldn't assume that "all builders are cowboys ..."
bw  -  john
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 12, 2003, 10:46:53 am
So what's to be done John.

Do builders carry any documentation that shows they are committed to disposing of waste material at an offical site?

Is there a code of practice, or a form, we should be shown, or fill out before we agree to do business with them?

Do any local builders know?

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on December 12, 2003, 11:20:50 am
You will not get an answer, most local builders are in the Carribean this month :) with skip loads of money 8)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Swan on December 15, 2003, 02:35:26 pm
Its possible to buy a good quality, colour, pinhole Surveillance camera for about 100 quid. Add about 20 quid for perspex to make a waterproof box and your done. ;)
Reviewing tapes of this kind is a mind-numbing task though, unless you have a fairly specific time to target  

I could tell you how I know this, but then I'd have to kill you  ;D
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: john on December 15, 2003, 09:06:17 pm
It might be interesting to know how many people CHECK where their waste actually goes:  for example by asking their builder to see the docket from Tyttenhanger ...    
If my little grey cell is right, there's something in the Env Prot Act which lays a duty on waste-generators to ensure their waste is properly disposed of
Well OK, how many actually go to the trouble of following/ checking ?  (and that doesn't deal with the domestic dumpers from car boot or roofrack).  But not to is simply to abrogate responsibilities ...
I'm not saying there IS an easy solution cos we ain't found one yet that's legal and watertight:   but for starters one has to recognise unpaletable home-truths

best wishes, David

john
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 16, 2003, 07:40:18 pm
Went along Bradmore Lane today (Tuesday 16 Dec) and the main rubbish had been cleared, thankfully, but not the bags dumped abiut 200 yards on the left from Station Rd.  Thank you WH Council  and happy Christmas to whoever did the actual work.  I did also see workers (including a woman) with black bags and grabbers picking up litter on the A1000 up near South Way.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Neville Hobbs on December 16, 2003, 07:55:46 pm
Do the council go through all the dumped rubbish bags for names and addresses?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on December 16, 2003, 10:00:30 pm
As i drove down Bradmore Lane at 7-30 am Saturday the council were clearing the mess.
2 Refuse carts, One Bulldozer and about 7 men.
all on Saturday overtime.
One can guess the cost at £500 plus!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: steve on December 17, 2003, 12:52:49 am
jet

double that more like!!!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Swan on December 17, 2003, 12:30:03 pm
Quote
Do the council go through all the dumped rubbish bags for names and addresses?


If the council is anything like the one where I used to live in Highgate, then the answer to your question is yes.

I recall a number of my neighbours there receiving summonses, after being too lazy to put out there rubbish on the appointed day, and just dumping it under a lamppost on the corner of our road.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Neville Hobbs on December 17, 2003, 04:10:47 pm
If the council is anything like the one where I used to live in Highgate, then the answer to your question is yes.  

Good. Perhaps the scum that dumped this rubbish will be caught.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on December 18, 2003, 01:43:59 pm
If they are caught, what is the typical punishment?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on December 19, 2003, 06:22:39 pm
Punishment should be 100 hours Community Service cleaning up rubbish!  That would teach them a lesson but sadly they will be told not to be naughty and let off with a caution.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 06, 2004, 11:39:12 pm
Took a detour down Grubs Lane today, guess what I found in exactly the same spot that I found all that asbestos waste last year? An enormous mountain of brand new christmas trees still in their plastic nets. There must be at least two whole lorry loads there. Surely someone must have seen them being dumped? They couldn't have been taken on a tipper so must have taken a long time to offload.

ATG

ps Had the digicam with me but didn't think I'd be able to post a picture. Perhaps Dave can take a stroll up there tomorrow.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alfred the Great on January 06, 2004, 11:40:34 pm
Sorry, location is between the forks with Westfield and Woodside Lanes.

ATG
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 06, 2004, 11:43:49 pm
Hi ATG,

I actually took a walk down Bulls Lane today and saw a load at the edge of the road just up from the railway bridge.

Click here for the location (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=524249&y=205196&z=1&sv=524250,205250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)

There must have been about three dozen unwanted Christmas Trees dumped there, all still in their plastic netting jackets.

Unfortunately the camera is being serviced, so I couldn't take a picture.

:-/
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 06, 2004, 11:49:52 pm
Quote
Sorry, location is between the forks with Westfield and Woodside Lanes.

ATG


That must have been quite a load of unwanted Christmas trees if they dumped a similar size load at that location too.

Click here for a map of ATG's Christmas dump discovery (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=525259&y=206148&z=1&sv=525250,206250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)

Click here for the location of DB's (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=524249&y=205196&z=1&sv=524250,205250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf)


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on February 03, 2004, 10:53:07 pm
I’ve just driven down Broadmore Lane. It looks like a dumper truck has deposited it’s load without even stopping. There was hardly enough room to get my car past.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 03, 2004, 10:55:19 pm
Another user of this site has just mailed about this John. I think he is posting later. I noticed this too while cycling near another fly-tipping hot-spot in Grubbs Lane. It seems a new technique for fly tipping is to drive along and tip-as-you-go. I suppose that way vehicles following behind can't get the number, and those in front don't see what has happened until it is too late?

:(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on February 03, 2004, 10:59:38 pm
Probably dumped from some grreat big 4WD
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on February 03, 2004, 11:08:04 pm
Sad man that I am, I did think to myself as I drove by, "Well this is too narrow for a Range Rover to get past" :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: AgentOrange on February 03, 2004, 11:26:53 pm
Massive intolerant sterotyping! Next you'll be saying that 4X4s are weapons of mass destruction and caused the two Gulf wars! Stick to the point not your prejudices. :-X
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on February 04, 2004, 12:00:31 am
I think we will find that multi drive vehicles were used to transport the weapons of mass destruction.
However now that the yanks now kill all the rainforests with their huge energy consumption they no longer need to use the defoliator "agent orange" any more.
Free speech works in all ways.
regards,
jet
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alfred the Great on February 04, 2004, 12:20:49 am
Further to this latest bit of tipping, I went out for a quick burst on the mountain bike this afternoon and at 4pm discovered this very heap in the middle of Bradmore Lane, about 100yds in from the junction with Station Road, looking like it had just arrived. Absolutely right in the middle of the carriageway, no attempt to get it in the field entrance, and no way for cars to get by. Four baths, black plastic water tank, three old water geysers, timber, a short length of RSJ, etc, the usual garage clearance job. Shame I didn't have the digicam with me. Someone must have moved it a bit since then.

A lady driver was coming from the other direction who said she had nearly been run off the road by a van going fast in the opposite direction towards Water End, with a name marked on it which I am pondering in my heart. Might just have been someone late home who had just done a u-turn to get out of it, but I seem to remember a couple of months ago trailing a suspicious open backed van with the normal fly tipping stuff in the back, who was going quite slowly and I was sure he was hoping I would overtake and leave him to his business, but as we got to Bradmore Lane he suddenly sped off through the village - I am sure this van also had something similar painted on it, looked like ex county council or highways.

Anyway, there you go, what a nice place we live in. Have the cameras been installed yet?

ATG
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: shads on February 04, 2004, 10:06:49 am
Talking about dumped Christmas trees,i noticed while running up the A1000 in early Jan that there was a lot of Christmas trees,still in their netting outside the cafe/lorry park near the Welham Green roundabout.
This is purely hyperthetical but i just wonder whether these same trees may gone for a walk down Grubbs Lane etc....
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Jane B on February 04, 2004, 10:28:48 am
As you may already be aware - be careful if you go down Bradmore Lane (towards Water End) - some lowlife decided to dump all the rubbish in the middle of the road instead of a lay-by this time - as I discovered in the pitch black last night........I was also trying to explain to the kids this morning as we went back past it as to why someone would have done this.....unfortunately I just couldn't find the right words....for the kids I mean!!!!! >:(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 04, 2004, 07:26:31 pm
Someone kindly moved the truck load of old plumbing parts and rubbish to the side of Bradmore Lane, so it is safe to travel down again -- until the next time that is.

(http://www.brookmans.com/images/fly3.jpg)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on February 04, 2004, 11:54:51 pm
At least someone moved it to the side of the road. Yesterday night it was almost blocking the road.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2004, 12:08:14 am
Perhaps the fly-tippers, having read of the dismay and discontent expressed in this forum following their actions, had a pang of conscience and returned to the scene to make partial restoration for their act?

:)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 05, 2004, 09:01:59 am
Welwyn Hatfield Council has a facility on its website for reporting fly tipping online. Click here to see the form. (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/search/default.asp?step=4&pid=207)

Most big fly tipping incidents are usually reported on this forum and in this thread. So, if people continue to post in this thread when there is a big dump somewhere locally, and others, concerned about the issue, then tell the council using the online form. The local authority will have a better picture of the regular fly tipping hot spots and, perhaps, target their efforts at prevention.

I've just filled the form in regarding Bradmore Lane, but my feeling is that the more that do so the more likely something will happen.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 10, 2004, 12:10:51 pm
why's there this expectation that land owners should simply have to cough up and pay for everyone elses dumping of burnt out cars, rubbish, etc ?      If everyone wants to enjoy the countryside, then everyone should help pay for such excesses ...
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on February 10, 2004, 01:32:21 pm
Fully agree that landownders shouldn't have to cough up, but I'm sure I pay my council tax for something....  ;D

James
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on February 10, 2004, 02:38:00 pm
The problem is dumping on privately owned land. You might have a right of way but the land is owned by someone.  WH Council does remove dumped vehicles from streets but it is to the land owners' responsibility if the car is on their land.  I assume WH Council will charge the land owner if the Council removes it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 10, 2004, 06:43:35 pm
so for a dumped car we are happy with the natural justice of:

1:   the owner who dumps the old car (fridge, scourings from the latest bathroom upgrade, etc) getting off scot-free (?  is that pc these days ?)  95+% of the time

2:   everyone subsidising the owner by getting the dump taken off the street by the Council

3:   but let's make the land owner pay for it all out of his/ her own pocket  -  whilst we complain about the Green Belt view being spoilt as we stand there whilst our dog.    
And bet it'd be different if the land was someone's front garden rather than some quiet field off Bradmore Lane  

No wonder it's all going steadily downhill


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: trinity on February 11, 2004, 12:31:41 am
Quote
why's there this expectation that land owners should simply have to cough up and pay for everyone elses dumping of burnt out cars, rubbish, etc ?      If everyone wants to enjoy the countryside, then everyone should help pay for such excesses ...


Grab a couple of likely culprits. Tell them to clear up the mess ("no, we don't care if it was you or not") or they'll get shot.

:-)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: catbirder on February 11, 2004, 01:36:18 am
Manufacturers of cars and fridges should be forced to add on a disposal charge to their products, to be paid by their customers.   This could form a central fund, and local councils could claim the costs back, wherever the old items were dumped.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: trinity on February 11, 2004, 02:35:49 am
Quote
Manufacturers of cars and fridges should be forced to add on a disposal charge to their products, to be paid by their customers.   This could form a central fund, and local councils could claim the costs back, wherever the old items were dumped.


That sounds awfully like a hypothecated tax to me. And we know how much the more kleptocratic parts of our government hates those.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: eric on February 11, 2004, 07:09:26 pm
"Manufacturers of cars and fridges should be forced to add on a disposal charge to their products, to be paid by their customers.   This could form a central fund, and local councils could claim the costs back, wherever the old items were dumped"
AND manufacturers of tyres, freezers, left boots, beds, paper, garden centres (eg  that sell the leylandii that people cut and dump ...), kitchen units, carpets, lino, tiles, and so on
So the councils could claim all the costs back from such dumping (cos they'd be responsible for ANY and ALL land ?)    Or landowners could reclaim too (surely?)
(but then the dumpers know it'll get sorted for them so they'll dump even more to avoid paying at Civic Amenity Points etc and reducing their profit from someone's house extension, new kitchen, or
[too depressing to continue
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: supersonic on February 11, 2004, 09:40:25 pm
Quote
"AND manufacturers of tyres,



Hi eric,

I changed 4 tyres on my car just before Christmas. I bought them from a reputable company in Watford and as part of the cost was charged about £1 per tyre for "environmental disposal".

rgds,
supersonic

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: catbirder on February 12, 2004, 01:16:46 am
Hi Eric

1)  We're not talking about left boots, paper, etc., which is fly-tipping of another sort, but this suggestion only concerns large items.

2)  Land-owners could request the Council to remove dumped cars, fridges, etc. and it would be free of charge.

3)  Dumpers would be encouraged to take the items to the tip themselves, as there would be no charge.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: trinity on February 12, 2004, 02:24:10 am
Quote

I changed 4 tyres on my car just before Christmas. I bought them from a reputable company in Watford and as part of the cost was charged about £1 per tyre for "environmental disposal".


This has been going on for soome time. I've been going to a
tyre place in Welwyn for the past 3-4 years, and the disposal
levy has always been on the invoice.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: john on February 12, 2004, 10:50:50 am
in thinking I know what Eric's tried to say:

If people are charged a fee for "environmental disposal" when their tyres are changed, it makes one wonder where is the money fetching up and what's it being spent on ?  certainly we've never been able to get a contribution towards the cost of tidying off old tyres dumped on our land (those can we can't recycle as weights on silage clamps etc ...).   Some cynics have said it's just another form of sanitised taxation:  like "paying speed camera fines helps save children from being knocked down" ?

Dear CatBirder:
I see your  first point, but the ACCUMULATION of such smaller items is every bit as challenging   - for example manual labour + skips + time etc   versus   one pick-up of car-carcass on to a flatbed recovery vehicle -   and probably more environmentally damaging ...

As to the second point, again we've not been able to secure any help to remove burnt cars etc off our estate.    Increasingly a greater proportion of estates budgets are ending up going on tidying up after other peoples antisocial behaviour rather than improvements such as tree-planting       (and the PEOPLE who vandalise ...  damage the new stock or steal it,  ... is a further issue !)

As to the third:    surely dumpers aren't being encouraged to go to tips because there's no charge ?   It requires extra effort which they're not prepared to do (even those local householders who we predict will shortly start this year's Spring-time garden-tidying and rubbish-dumping hereabouts).  
"Bigger" units (eg  builders vans) are required to pay LandFill Tax (unless you feel that should be abolished ?) and again those peoples attitude seems to be "no - let's dump the problems and costs on everyone else"

I know I've contributed to coming back again to a regularly recurring theme which seems to show little sign of abating let alone solution.   Perhaps the Local PEAP and a proposed North Mymms Way will provide a focus for identifying blackspots, preventative measures, enhancement opportunities, etc  and getting hold of the taxation levies (on tyres, landfill, etc) to fund some betterment for us all ?

best wishes  -  john f  ('t rvc one)


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on February 12, 2004, 12:18:11 pm
I think the reason there is so much fly tipping is because of the landfill charge and the refusal of dumps to accept 'commercial' waste.
I think the best way forward is to abolish charges and make dumps accept everything including materials like asbestos which often get fly-tipped or mixed in with other waste.
Only then can there be absolutely no excuse for fly-tipping (assuming the cost of disposal is the main reason for it) and then there would be a real chance at least some of the waste could be recycled.
Of course there will be a cost for this, however there is an undoubted cost in clearing fly-tipped waste. Possibly the savings made here coupled with help from manufacturers (I think for certain items this will soon be mandatory - I know there are regulations concerned with computer disposal).
At least then the countryside wouldn't be littered with waste.
Perhaps there would still be occasional instances of fly-tipping, at least these could then be investigated properly.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: freespirit on July 07, 2004, 07:50:15 pm
Is it fly tipping or just people dont care less!!!!  Walking over Gobions behind Bluebridge Avenue this morning and I see workmen coming from one of the houses to dump trees/garden rubbish etc in  the open space.  Why doesnt the owner pay to have it carried away instead of dumping it.

Totally amazed ???
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Margaret on July 08, 2004, 10:55:22 am
Hope you reported th owner and the workman! >:( >:(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Buster on July 08, 2004, 12:03:11 pm
The owners have paid for several skips since this work started so I can not believe that they know about this.  I agree with Margaret about speaking to the owner.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: freespirit on July 08, 2004, 11:48:04 pm
Many thanks, but not aware who the owners are if you know them Buster a friendly word may help the cause.  Just interested to see if we want the open space to be used in such a manner.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 18, 2005, 11:32:47 am
The Environment Agency has been given new powers to recover the cost of clearing up after fly-tippers. From now on, offenders will have to foot the bill. New measures in the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act also give local authorities more effective investigatory powers to catch fly-tippers, as well as the capacity to remove abandoned cars from the streets. Click here for more (http://www.brookmans.com/news/october05/fly15.shtml). Below is a picture taken down Bradmore Lane on Tuesday, 18 October, 2005.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/october05/caravan400.jpg)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on October 18, 2005, 12:05:19 pm
I passed the abandoned caravan whilst out cycling on Sunday and thought it particularly ironic that stuck in the window is a sticker for something like 'British Association of Vehicle Dismantlers' or similar.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 01, 2006, 02:01:21 pm
I've just been on a pleasant walk from North Mymms to South Mimms and back over the old coaching road. I noticed that Hertsmere Council has put up signs warning that fly tippers will be caught on CCTV. As a result there is no fly tipping in Blackhorse Lane on the south side of Hawkshead Wood.

Could any of the councillors who use this site please comment on whether similar measures have been considered for Bradmore Lane and other local fly tipping blackspots? It looks like a fairly convincing deterrent.

(http://www.brookmans.com/environment/cctv.jpg)

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on July 02, 2006, 03:29:53 pm
I recently drove south down Bradmore Lane and passed a parked car driven by an elderly gentleman!   I did notice that the car had sacks of garden waste on the back seat.   Five minutes later I drove back the other way to see the car driving towards Brookmans Park, and sure enough, the said rubbish was now lying in the layby.   I following the car and was shocked when the driver pulled into a house in Peplins Way!   

We all know that country lanes are renouned for being used by some for dumping rubbish but I really didnt expect it to be a local resident.   What is wrong with using the local council dump, there is one in Cranborne Road or one on the A414 at Hatfield.

Please get rid of your rubbish sensibly, and dont dump it on your own doorstep!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Mr Man on July 03, 2006, 12:26:58 am
Did you get out of your car when he pulled into his house, and ask him why he dumped the stuff?

Have you grassed him up to the council?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 03, 2006, 06:29:35 am
I have merged this post with an existing thread on fly tipping.

There is a form on the Welwyh Hatfield Council site where you can report incidents of fly tipping.

Click here for the page with the link to the form. (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/transportstreets/streetcareandcleaning/flytipping)

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 03, 2006, 06:29:14 pm
That is unbelievable peppermint. Make sure this guy is reported and named and shamed if poss. Hopefully a one off but blimey.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Mermaid on July 03, 2006, 08:14:04 pm

I really didnt expect it to be a local resident.   What is wrong with using the local council dump, there is one in Cranborne Road or one on the A414 at Hatfield.


There is absolutely no excuse at all for this man if he's a local resident, he doesn't even have to make the effort to get to Cranborne, we are lucky in having a garden waste collection service twice a month. What's wrong with the man! Report him.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on July 03, 2006, 09:45:18 pm
I don't think we are supposed to use the tip at Cranborne are we as it's Hertsmere.  Aren't we supposed to used the Cole Green one?

(Like most people round here though, I do use Potters Bar)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alfred the Great on July 03, 2006, 09:59:16 pm
The waste sites are run by Herts County Council (or their neanderthal contractors) so you can go to any of them. Just don't try to take anything away with you - surely the ultimate in recycling.


ATG
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on July 04, 2006, 08:27:13 am
The Community Centre car park is a regular site for fly tipping. Often this is garden rubbish too. On Sunday various piles of garden waste which had been dumped opposite the recycling site a while ago had been set alight and was well ablaze when by chance I visited the Centre to check that everything was ok. With the dry weather, this could easily have spread. Within minutes the lads from Hatfield fire station had extinguished it. Until next time....

The Centre's rubbish bins are also used by fly tippers. The Centre is NOT the local rubbish disposal site. Yes W/Hat Council have recycling banks nearby, but they are on land belonging to Thames Water, not the Centre. Our rubbish bins are on our land away from the recycling centre but have to be visible otherwise they won't get emptied, besides they are rather large to move. Not that this stops the darling youths pushing them, contents and all into the nearby stream,

As usual the volunteers of the Centre are left with the clear up. Thanks a bunch!   >:(

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on July 04, 2006, 04:57:52 pm
A year or two ago my wife and I were driving down Hawkshead Lane and noted the registration number of an overweight vehicle.  When I tried to report it to the police they would take no action unless there were at least two independent witnesses.  My wife and I are not independent in their terms.

On that basis I cannot see the police taking any notice of Peppermint's observations, and it would just be the council that would clear the material.

A sad world we live in.  And don't even think about withholding part of your Council Tax until the fly-tipped material is removed!  Kill the person but do not withhold money  (That was a joke of course - please do not take it seriously).  You might get let off because you were acting under duress.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: John_fraser on July 04, 2006, 05:04:52 pm
Theoretically it may still be worth reporting them to the council, as they may be able to match the rubbish to the person or they may have been seen and reported by a second witness.

Alternatively, I’d run with idea of killing them and claiming diminished responsibility.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Peter Hastings on July 04, 2006, 05:30:37 pm
Several points on this.

1   Not defending the polluter of Peplins but my wife reminds me we have been waiting over  a year for a an enviro bin for our property in Bluebridge but due to changes in budget etc we are still waiting. As for GWR we have been told recently we will have to buy one which is ok but they dont have any!?

2   We actually compost most of our stuff and have a good fire occasionally although that is probably not as enviro friendly as it could be.

3   Our lads who work for us on other properties have to tour the county trying to persuade a dump to take garden rubbish from a van-they usually find Potters Bar and Borehamwood ok if you are nice to the guys ( perish the thought a fiver changes hands occasionally)  and one lives in Luton so a lot ends up there. Their rules seem to be entirely different.

4   Have you seen the dustmen on a Thursday inspecting every black bag and happily leaving one with a few grass cuttings on the verge rather than put in the crusher? Are they really being told to spend their time doing that? Not convinced the council is entirely with us on this.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on July 04, 2006, 07:05:08 pm
Many years ago, I used to work for a local council, and they employed people part of whose job was to collect dumped rubbish and go through it for clues. They were always delighted when there was enough evidence to bring a prosecution.

However, even if there wasn’t enough evidence, they would still go round to speak to people, which I’m sure had a deterrent effect.

It’s certainly worth reporting. If they’ve done it once, they’ve probably done it before and got away with it.

Generally, I’ve found that the people who drop litter are often not those we expect, but people who live round the corner and look just like us.  :o


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on July 06, 2006, 10:12:31 am
Re. the question about whether I confronted the Peplins Polluter.   No, but I did make sure that he knew I had seen him.   Sorry I am a bit of a coward when it comes to confrontation.

I did report it to the council so hopefully he will be brought to task over it.

Incidentally, whilst the waste was garden waste, it also included the usual broken flower pots, tools, etc.  I don't know if that can be put into the garden bins.

Perhaps he was put off of going to Cranborne dump, after all, those steps up to the skips  can be a hard climb when loaded down with black bags!!!     
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Mermaid on July 06, 2006, 10:28:12 am

Well done for reporting him!

We can only put 'compostable' things in the brown bins, ie grass cuttings, plant and hedge clippings etc.

The Cranborne site is always manned when it's open and they are very helpful if someone is struggling. Even if they're busy, he could leave the sacks near the bottom of the steps and they will be dealt with - so still no excuse!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on August 06, 2006, 08:48:43 pm
Beware, anyone who drives down Bradmore Lane today.    I have just passed some fencing with nails pointing skyward lying dumped in the middle of the road.    I did move some of it over to the verge.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Neville Hobbs on March 30, 2007, 08:44:06 am
I was driving along Bradmore Lane last night and saw a Ford Fieasa type of car that looked suspiciously like it was dumping rubbish as it was parked by a pile of rubbish and the passenger door was open. The vehicle bore a registration plate. I took a photograph.

It is a discrace to dump stuff when there is a perfectly good refuse tip nearby. What happened to pride?

OK, it was a person dumping stuff, not the car before I get picked up.


Edited to remove identification
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Aidan Winwood on April 04, 2007, 09:49:13 am
I believe parked up cars on Bradmore Lane at night are not always dumping rubbish... :o)

Reminds me of that old Essex joke - How does an Essex girl turn the light off before sex?  She shuts the car door...
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Aidan Winwood on April 04, 2007, 09:54:12 am
PS: Neville - I'd check that photograph if I were you, you may have caught more than you bargained for...
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 06, 2007, 02:35:48 pm
Ah, the English hedgerow in spring, complete with wild Dunlop, ragged Firestone and lesser Michelin. A trip down Bradmore Lane.

(http://www.brookmans.com/environment/tyres1.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/environment/tyres2.jpg)

 :-\

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on July 30, 2008, 09:48:45 pm
Once again the North Mymms Youth & Community Centre car park is covered with illegally dumped garden waste. Hebe, lilac, conifer and other general garden waste, plus concrete fence posts, concrete paving slabs and other waste. If you have used a 'I'll clear that garden for you mate' cold caller, please think what you are doing to honest and legal tax paying traders and the cost to your local community centre a charity who has to clear up the mess as a result of your 'bargain' offer. Please stop using them.

Meanwhile, if you drive into the Centre car park at the moment to use the recycling facilities, watch out as you'll drive into the fly tipped material until it is removed.

Police and Welwyn Hatfield Council are aware.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 26, 2008, 02:53:32 pm
The BBC has a feature on 'pay-as-you-throw (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7747853.stm)'. A chum of mine in Zurich has to buy black bin bags (half the size of ours) for €5 a bag. He says it forces them to recycle everything. I would just worry that it may increase fly-tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Strad on November 26, 2008, 04:22:20 pm
There was an item on the BBC's today programme this morning. A person living in Belgium was explaining that their waste bin was weighed at the time of collection. They then paid according to the weight. Their account had to be in credit for the collection to take place. If it was not, then the bin remained unemptied. I think that this sytem would also encourage fly tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alex on November 28, 2008, 06:47:40 pm
Culturally we are very different to the Begiums and so I agree it is unlikely to work over here. I totally agree fly tipping will increase- heaven help us!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on March 10, 2009, 08:46:54 pm
I have just driven up Bradmore Lane and what looks like asbestos has been dumped in a layby. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 11, 2009, 03:38:30 am
That won't be cheap to get removed. I presume the council have to hire contractors to dispose of it?
I have a licence to remove bonded asbestos in Oz.  It's costly. As a matter of fact, it's such a pain in the backside to remove and dispose of due to all the red tape I have to go through, I either put a big price on it or don't go near it at all!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 11, 2009, 01:35:06 pm
It cost the Community Centre over £800 a couple of years ago to have 2 asbestos garage roofs removed which were vandalised.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: GGDT on March 13, 2009, 01:13:27 pm
My journey to work this morning took me past 3 rather unsightly piles of rubbish which have been dumped beside local roads.

One lot on Hawkshead Road near the vet college farm and two lots on Bradmore Lane.

One of the piles of rubbish on Bradmore Lane looked to contain several corrugated roof panels of the type that used to be made out of asbestos (although I dont know if these actually are).

Anyone know who you need to speak to at the council to get this stuff cleared up?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on March 13, 2009, 04:21:03 pm
Looking at the Welwyn Hatfield Council website there is an online form for reporting flytipping.

http://www.welhat.gov.uk/environmentplanning/rubbishwasteandrecycling/flytipping

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Silver on March 13, 2009, 07:09:50 pm
I reported the asbestos and other dumped stuff to the council yesterday. Hope they will shift it soon.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 16, 2009, 09:16:18 am
I reported the asbestos and other dumped stuff to the council yesterday. Hope they will shift it soon.

Hi Silver,

I get the feeling the council is on the case. The area was cordoned off (although the tape has been broken) with cones and orange lights. Seems someone may be on the case. Here are some pics taken this morning, along with another bit of fly tipping further up Bradmore Lane and some fly tipping spotted at Wild Hill yesterday.

David

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/ft2.jpg)

Bradmore Lane

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/ft3.jpg)

Bradmore Lane

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/ft6.jpg)

Bradmore Lane, cordon cut

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/ft1.jpg)

Bradmore Lane

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/ft4.jpg)

Wild Hill

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on March 16, 2009, 09:22:50 am
I know for a fact that the council are on the case - apparently it was reported a few weeks ago but the council's contractor Serco is only under obligation to act within, I believe, 20 working days. Given the fact that asbestos is hazardous waste this seems rather a long time given how dangerous asbestos can be. Of course it may well be that the dumped waste is NOT asbestos, however we can't be sure.

I have spoken to a reporter at the WH Times so expect to see a story at some point soon.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 16, 2009, 09:29:18 am
It looks to me as if someone has had to dispose of an old garage. Further up there are concrete posts and panels (see pics above).

The way the material is spread out suggests it had been on the back of a truck that can tip. If that's the case it is probably a contractor rather than a private individual.

So it probably comes down to the issue that if you are having any rubbish removed, that you must make sure that the contractor is legit and will dispose of the waste legally.

Some early clues will be whether they ask for cash in hand, which is usually a tax fiddle, and whether they have a suspicious company name and only use mobile numbers.

The sad thing is that there will be home owners who are happy to hire cowboys and turn a blind eye to the consequences, unfortunately.

 :-\
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 16, 2009, 02:33:25 pm
Hazardous waste disposal experts have been examining the sheeting dumped in Bradmore Lane to assess whether it is a health risk and how to remove it.  Click here (http://www.brookmans.com/news/march09/bradmore_lane_fly_tipping.shtml) for more details.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 16, 2009, 02:42:54 pm
The problem for the small sole trader who is doing small scale jobs is how to dispose of locally and legally. Most local trade sites charge by the ton. Finding one that will take small amounts is almost impossible. I tried and using all the helplines and contact numbers provided by HCC ended up speaking back to the same people I tried in the 1st place - Waste Aware. That included W/Hat Council, The Environment Agency, local trade waste sites and domestic. In the end I had to refuse to take waste, leaving it for customers to resolve, hardly customer friendly and no wonder there is so much fly tipping. The minimum cost I was quoted by one tip was £160. When one has done a job that costs for arguments sake £50, but have to charge and additional £160 to dispose of waste, no wonder people are attracted to the 'cash in hand mob'. Of course the country as a whole has to work out a way of avoiding land fill, but making it easiler for legitimate waste disposal would help.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 16, 2009, 03:26:13 pm
All good points, Ferdie. It's a difficult one. I wanted to get someone in to remove a pile of old fencing, but I am not sure who to trust. I would hate to see my fencing in Bradmore Lane. I'd feel obliged to collect it up and take it home again. I guess the correct way to do it is to break it down into small stacks and make 20 trips to the tip myself. I suppose that is allowed.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 16, 2009, 07:40:09 pm
I guess the correct way to do it is to break it down into small stacks and make 20 trips to the tip myself. I suppose that is allowed.
Yes, but there are cameras that record repeat visits and then you could find yourself classed as a 'trade waste disposer'. That happened to a friend of mine in Knebworth who was clearing out his mother in laws house! Needless to say he carried on anyway and actually heared no more.... but then one could get up to an £85K bill for illegal use of domestic waste site!!! Have a bonfire instead.... there haven't been many posts on that thread recently   >:D
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 16, 2009, 07:48:50 pm
Hi Ferdie - Did you try Hurleys Skips in Cranbourne Rd, Potters Bar? Randall Hurley is a friend of mine and he is licensed to take industrial and domestic waste.  Worth a go if they are stll there.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 16, 2009, 11:23:03 pm
Stevea, Thanks, without advocating or advertising, Hurleys have been of assistance to the Community Centre and I know of them. The 'Hippo Bag' scheme operated nationally through some of the DIY chains is also of use, at a cost.

The problem for small sole traders is often that they have insufficient waste to fill a skip, or pay the official route, not to mention the 'waste carrier license' that is required & I defy anyone to negotiate the Environment Agencies web site and come out with a clear understanding of what is and what isn't required. Aside from all this, no wonder there is so much fly tipping. Whilst fines can easily be around £20K for a 1st offence and unlimited if it goes to Crown Court, one load of tree cuttings or a pile of old fence panels look very much like another, trying to trace a source is nigh on impossible.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 17, 2009, 05:01:12 am
Hi Ferdie. I think there's a few commercial tipping sites about the BP area. Not all charge by the ton - some by the cubic metre - and it's true - you do need a waste carrier license' - that's been the biggest rip off if ever I've seen one. I can understand 'big boys' having to have one, but the average sole trader or Joe Bloggs public - why do they need one? So what they're saying is - when you take your rubbish to the local council tip, you should have one of these licenses? Who polices that? Most commercial sites I know, not mentioning any names, would turn a blind eye to it. What you'll find with the private commercial tips and skip companies being expensive is that because they are just transfer stations, they in turn have to take it to government registered landfill sites where they are clobbered with huge landfill taxes. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on March 17, 2009, 11:18:55 am
According to recent newspaper articles, there has been an increase in fly-tipping where councils have mircochips on wheelie bins to measure and record rubbish collected from each household (ha ha ha - their computer systems were inadequate as usual).  What a surprise.  Does nobody think through these new ideas and consider the consequences?

Thank goodness our council does not seem interested in this nonsense.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on March 17, 2009, 01:45:41 pm
Article in Welwyn Hatfield Times here :

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/content/whtimes/news/story.aspx?brand=WHTOnline&category=News&tBrand=HertsCambsOnline&tCategory=newslatestWHT&itemid=WEED17%20Mar%202009%2013%3A24%3A51%3A373 (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/content/whtimes/news/story.aspx?brand=WHTOnline&category=News&tBrand=HertsCambsOnline&tCategory=newslatestWHT&itemid=WEED17%20Mar%202009%2013%3A24%3A51%3A373)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 17, 2009, 10:28:34 pm
Sasquartch - You'll probably find the real reason why the asbestos hasn't been removed for so long is because the company with the contract to remove it just hasn't got the staff with the appropriate licenses. The problem with these companies is that people come and go all the time and you can't just go and get a license. Each individual has to obtain a license so they can remove asbestos. First of all you have to be booked in to take a course which are held every so often at a huge expense and then depending on the company you're working for, they will require you privately to have a medical and chest x ray. Again at a cost. None of this happens overnight and it can take weeks to obtain a license. The company itself also needs a license and their vehicles has to be licensed to carry asbestos as well. More money. The biggest joke of all, at least it was 10 years ago, you could only tip asbestos at an "open" landfill site in Dartford!!  I could go on and on about asbestos - you wouldn't believe the red tape in Oz that I had to go through mind you, at least here they are tipping it in old mine shafts!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on March 18, 2009, 11:16:10 am
The asbestos was removed this morning.   I drove down Bradmore Lane at 8.45am and they had wrapped it in thick plastic.   I asked one of the men was it asbestos and he confirmed that it was.   I cant believe that both the council and the police knew about it and yet it took four weeks to arrange for its removal but at least it has gone now.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 18, 2009, 11:00:30 pm
What surprises me is if this is so dangerous, what do these people who dump this do when they rip it up and chuck it on their trucks and fly tip it? Surely they are at great risk? Clearly they either don't care, don't understand or actually it is not that dangerous? Perhaps because it's all cash in hand they live for the moment, enjoy the money & when they get ill with asbestosis they know you and I will pay for their treatment in our hospitals via our taxes that they don't pay? ... or am I being non pc here?  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 19, 2009, 04:55:10 am
Something to think about whilst rattling through ye olde tunnels on your way to work;-
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/sigourd_shack/blog/2008/04/28/asbestos_exposure_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_london_underground_users
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 19, 2009, 08:37:11 am
Perhaps people can post again here as soon as they see any fly tipping with the date they spotted it and the location.  Pictures would be good, too.

If we keep a log here, perhaps we can keep it as a record to help the authorities keep a tab on it.

Thanks for all the updates people have added so far.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 21, 2009, 08:27:47 am
An old friend of mine, Louis Smith, who used to own Smiths Skips in Borehamwood, had his premises by the railway sidings at the station. He was forced to close down as the railways sold the land to developers. Fly tipping increased by 50% in the Borehamwood area. The railways continued to sell of sidings, traditionally used by skip companies, all over the UK. This resulted in extensive fly tipping and nowhere for the skip companies to go.
Government and local councils should really start looking at this problem quite seriously because all the skip owners I have spoken to are not getting help to set up elsewhere. They are facing the same stigma that a gypsy site receives. Soon there will be no commercial tips - there's only a handful left in the area like Hurleys in Potters Bar, Winters in New Southgate, McGovern in Hendon, O'Donoghues in Cricklewood etc  Nearly all bar one on railway sidings.....it's not a good situation. Fly tipping is going to get a lot worse.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 20, 2009, 08:13:55 am
Did Walk Two (http://www.brookmans.com/walks/walk2.shtml) yesterday around Wild Hill and the final part was blocked by fly tipping. The load was so big that it was almost impossible to pass. It's also dangerous with broken glass, nails in wood and sharp metal jutting out.

However there is so much there that I have a feeling that it may be possible to trace the culprits if someone spent enough time searching through the pile of rubbish.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/august09/flytipping_Wild_Hill.jpg)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on August 20, 2009, 04:27:33 pm
Hopefully the person who used these people to do some work may recognise their carpet. Trouble is I believe if you use a contractor/builder to do work & you fail to check that they are licensed to carry waste, you could also be held liable. Hardly a way of encouraging people to own up & 'shop' the offender.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 20, 2009, 04:28:41 pm
Hi Ferdie,

The pile of rubbish goes back a long way down the path. I am sure there will be clues in there as to where it came from.

Dave
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on January 27, 2010, 07:48:33 pm
Yet again Bradmore Lane is strewn with rubbish - this time pieces of carpet that must have been chucked off the back of a moving truck - What is wrong with these people - why can't they take it to the tip like everyone else!!!.
I find it so depressing that certain sections of the community have so little regard for the environment that we all live in. It makes me mad GRRRRR.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Aloo on January 27, 2010, 08:49:39 pm
I've reported the tipping this evening to the Council.  Let's see how long it takes to clear up!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on January 28, 2010, 12:42:58 am
What is wrong with these people - why can't they take it to the tip like everyone else!!!.

If you go to the tip in a van they want to be paid - as they say it is commercial waste

It may well be commercial waste but surely it's in everyone's interest for the tips to take everything wherever it's from to avoid fly tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on January 28, 2010, 06:18:04 am
Sasquartch - That would be the sensible solution but that's not going to happen.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on January 28, 2010, 03:03:31 pm
I've reported the tipping this evening to the Council.  Let's see how long it takes to clear up!

Well!! All cleared by approx 1pm the next day!!! Well done Wel/Hat Council!!!!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on January 28, 2010, 04:31:25 pm
I wonder if they just clear it up or whether any effort is made to trace the perpetrator ?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Helen on January 28, 2010, 04:31:55 pm
That's at least the 2nd time the council have had to clear Bradmore Lane in a week - on Saturday night we were driving along it when we were stopped by flashing lights & a council truck - some complete ****** had tipped an entire lorry load of rubbish...into the middle of the road!!! They hadn't even had the 'decency' to pull over & dump it on the kerb!! Inever thought I'd say this but thank goodness for WH Council & their flashing orange lights - otherwise we'd have driven straight into it in the dark!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: awill on March 17, 2010, 01:33:06 pm
Catching the 828 this morning I noticed that someone has tipped a load of rubbish on the grass track (not the path) that runs parallel to the station entrance. I think this happened overnight as I do not recall seeing it the day before. Quite risky for the fly tipper given the proximity to the station and the village. Did try to work out if the station CCTV might have caught them on camera but the angles don't look right. Assuming the poor farmer will report this one to Welwyn Hatfield.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: awill on March 17, 2010, 01:43:39 pm
Looked up what the penalties are for fly tipping, wonder if the idiots know just how steep the punishments can be. Extract from a home office website:
"Fly-tipping fines are up to £20,000 and/or 6 months' imprisonment. Fines are unlimited if the case goes to the Crown Court or up to 2 years' imprisonment, and up to 5 years if hazardous waste is dumped".

Do we know if Welwyn do a cursory examination of the waste that is dumped, just to see if, for example, empty packaging boxes are marked with addresses? Is it worth posting pictures of the waste that is dumped in case anyone recognises their own stuff, for which they may have paid to have it legitimately disposed.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 17, 2010, 02:08:12 pm
Quote
Looked up what the penalties are for fly tipping, wonder if the idiots know just how steep the punishments can be. Extract from a home office website:
"Fly-tipping fines are up to £20,000 and/or 6 months' imprisonment. Fines are unlimited if the case goes to the Crown Court or up to 2 years' imprisonment, and up to 5 years if hazardous waste is dumped".

I totally agree that the persons who did the flytipping are a disgrace, and deserve punishment.

However, as we all know, the justice system will NEVER allow the perpetrator to get maximum fines nor 5 years inside if they caught - especially as you cannot get more severe crimes like mugging old ladies, killing people to have imposed maximum terms.

I am afraid that the flytippers know this - which brings me onto the next question - who are the REAL idiots - the flytippers, or the legislators and lawyers who have allowed our justice system to sink to such low levels. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: colinr on March 17, 2010, 02:08:52 pm
Looked up what the penalties are for fly tipping, wonder if the idiots know just how steep the punishments can be. Extract from a home office website:
"Fly-tipping fines are up to £20,000 and/or 6 months' imprisonment. Fines are unlimited if the case goes to the Crown Court or up to 2 years' imprisonment, and up to 5 years if hazardous waste is dumped".

Do we know if Welwyn do a cursory examination of the waste that is dumped, just to see if, for example, empty packaging boxes are marked with addresses? Is it worth posting pictures of the waste that is dumped in case anyone recognises their own stuff, for which they may have paid to have it legitimately disposed.



I posted this comment last Feb 09 but I think it is relevant to the question of idiot fly tippers

A friends of mine who runs a community centre in Hertfordshire, was confronted one morning by a large heap of fly tipping outside the community centre doorway. Amongst all the rubbish was some paperwork that gave a name and address in Enfield.

After some investigating it transpired the owner of the rubbish had paid a “Tree Surgeon“ (who had since disappeared) to do some work in their garden, which involved demolishing, clearing and disposing a gardens shed.

In addition, they had paid £200 for the rubbish to be disposed of. But instead it was dumped outside the secluded doorway of the community centre.

It gets worse, because when the council came to inspect this junk, it was established it contained asbestos, which as we all know to be a health hazard. Therefore the council will not handle the clean up. Here’s “the rub”, the community centre had to pay a specialist company to remove this hazardous material. (I believe about £300.)

The centre was closed to the playgroups, weight watchers, flower arrangers , and all the other users, until it was deemed safe for the community centre to be use again.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 18, 2010, 12:34:59 am
So, going full circle, isn't it the duty of the householder (who didn't check the credentials of the 'tree surgeon' thoroughly enough) to pay the bill?

If someone hires a tree surgeon and then asks them (or perhaps they offered) to do a bit of demolision and clear a shed (and the rubbish contained asbestos), I would think the onus is on the bloke who agreed the deal. Surely he had a feeling something dodgy going on.

It surely shouldn't fall on those who run the community centre.

Dave
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Johnny Redd on March 18, 2010, 07:28:58 am
Absolutely 100% correct David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 18, 2010, 07:42:29 am
Quote
Insert Quote
Absolutely 100% correct David

Maybe - but if the cost of removing asbestos was not so prohibitive, then perhaps there would be less temptation for people to try to get it removed by eh... more "dubious" means. Its not something that is easy to stop - and I would go so far as to say that some forum posters have done the same thing in the past eg wrap up asbestos in other waste and throw it into the skips at the dump etc.

As a few of the operatives at the one in Potters Bar - they'll tell you a story or two about asbestos waste.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 19, 2010, 08:02:04 am

I would go so far as to say that some forum posters have done the same thing in the past eg wrap up asbestos in other waste and throw it into the skips at the dump etc.

As a few of the operatives at the one in Potters Bar - they'll tell you a story or two about asbestos waste.


I hope you are wrong, PS, I can't imagine any responsible citizen putting the lives of others at risk by disquising hazardous waste. This isn't about dumping and saving cost, it is surely akin to assault, causing GBH or even manslaughter in the event of death. I hope the authorities are as well informed as you claim to be and are doing something about it.

David

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 19, 2010, 09:12:41 am
Unfortunately David, PS is absolutely correct. I see it all the time. A lot of people will go to any length to dispose of asbestos to avoid paying for the service. My company used to remove asbestos..but we pulled out last year simply because of seeing lawsuits against legit companies , finger pointing from people trying to say they've inhaled asebestos dust (employees, Joe Public etc) and the cost of disposal. It just wasn't worth the aggravation and the red tape was a nightmare.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 19, 2010, 09:21:17 am
Quote
I hope you are wrong, PS, I can't imagine any responsible citizen putting the lives of others at risk by disquising hazardous waste. This isn't about dumping and saving cost, it is surely akin to assault, causing GBH or even manslaughter in the event of death. I hope the authorities are as well informed as you claim to be and are doing something about it.

I hope I am wrong too DB, but unfortunately there ARE irresponsible people around. There are also UNINFORMED people around who wouldn't know what asbestos looks like. A couple of the operatives in Potters Bar have apparently seen instances of people dumpling asbestos into the skips - and have approached them accordingly to remove and take it from site. This arose because one time some years ago I saw some altercation with a dumper and an operative. Once the dumper had quit, the operative who was clearly disturbed stopped to say a few words to me and said this was not the first time asbestos had been attempted to be dumped.

Furthermore on this occassion when I was present, the dumper apparently claimed that 'he did not know it was asbestos'. Herein the problem - apart from knowingly dumping asbestos, I am pretty certain that there are instances of people who genuinely do not know its asbestos - especially the younger generation.

Sounds bad - but I bet it happens.
 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on March 19, 2010, 01:22:22 pm
Does anyone know the answer to this? 

I believe there are two sorts of asbestos, being blue and white, and that one of them is not a problem.  I have been told in the past that the amount of asbestos in corregated roofing sheets is not enough to be of concern.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 19, 2010, 01:41:08 pm
Quote
Does anyone know the answer to this? 

Some potential suggestions :

(a) how about the local authorities PAY for the cost of disposal - this would prevent the widespread dumping of asbestos that most probably occurs. If most families on limited incomes have a choice between paying for the family food bill or dumping asbestos through a licensed remover, I know which they would choose !!

(b) awareness through leaflets published that could be attached to all Council Tax Bills sent to households annually - the cost of the one or two pages extra attached to the usual booklets would be marginal additional costs.

(c) a specific person/(s) within the local authority could be employed to deal with cases of suspected asbestos waste.

Clearly there would be a cost associated with the extra funding required, but then lets face it, there are many other areas of council tax "waste" of money schemes that could have a cut budget. I can certainly think of several - including catering for minority interests !!!   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 19, 2010, 08:24:20 pm
Hello Bob - There are actuallly three types of asbestos - blue, brown and white. The most dangerous is blue, then brown, then white....all of which can kill. White was the most commonly used which I believe was mined in Cyprus. Blue and brown, South Africa and Western Australia. The colours are different levels of concentration. Asbestos is the after burn of molten rock, that's why it's so heat resistant. NASA couldn't put a rocket in to space without it.
All corregated roofing sheets that contain asbestos are dangerous. Some were made from 100% bonded asbestos and some with only 10%. They are just as dangerous. It's only one small fibre that can kill.
So Bob, anything that contains asbestos is of concern. Bonded asbestos is not dangerous until it is broken up...in other words, when the bond (resin) is damaged....a bit like fibre glass,
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 20, 2010, 06:25:15 am
Hhmpp - that's very interesting Stevea - I didn't know either that there were three types either. Thanks for the very lucid explanation. So it seems that ALL types of asbestos is of obvious concern.

Would you know if they still produce asbestos for general consumption, and if they are still used in public / domestic buildings for any reason, or whether it is strictly controlled and manufactured for specific use only, such as putting rockets into space ?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 20, 2010, 07:30:33 am
Hello PS - believe it or not, there are actually five types of asbestos, but only the ones I've mentioned are used in the building industry. It gets very technical, and you'd need to be a scientist to understand the different make up of each type. As far as I know, all Westernised countries have very stringent regulations and are not allowed to manufacture except in controlled circumstances. In third world countries, it is still widely mined and used e.g the Thai government told the people that the need for asbestos outweighed the danger. To be honest, you have more chance of getting run over by a bus than getting asbestosis but the simple fact is, it can kill.
It frightens the life out of people..for example, last year when we turned up at a property to remove an asbestos shed, I might as well have said to the neighbours that I've got a gun and I've come to shoot you all!!
On the other side, you get people who don't give a monkeys and we still get calls from the public saying they've ripped it all out and it's sitting on the drive - not wet down or wrapped - incredible.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 20, 2010, 04:25:51 pm
Quote
On the other side, you get people who don't give a monkeys and we still get calls from the public saying they've ripped it all out and it's sitting on the drive - not wet down or wrapped - incredible.


Yes it seems like it. Here on location we have had a similar problem - some local schools up country have ripped the stuff up and expect us, as part of our companies CSR policy, to remove it !!! The problem is how - they have left it all crumbling in pieces, in hot weather and no rains with high winds thereby spreading the dust all around the local villages and beyond. !!!

I am still trying to evaluate how much all this is going to cost us - as its not a Western country, there are no licensed asbestos removers, so we may be required to import some expertise.

Here it really is a case of many not being informed of the dangers - but I am truly stunned at what you say about people leaving the stuff on their driveways over your way, when they should know better. Lets hope this has not happened in the BP local community.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on March 21, 2010, 10:11:38 am
theres a load of grey/white asbestos (asbestolux ?) corrugated sheets at the end of the station car park in BP. they are just sitting there with a cone around them. guess its a fly tip.



bp
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 21, 2010, 11:54:56 am
I
Quote
hope you are wrong, PS, I can't imagine any responsible citizen putting the lives of others at risk by disquising hazardous waste. This isn't about dumping and saving cost, it is surely akin to assault, causing GBH or even manslaughter in the event of death. I hope the authorities are as well informed as you claim to be and are doing something about it.
Quote from DB
Quote
theres a load of grey/white asbestos (asbestolux ?) corrugated sheets at the end of the station car park in BP. they are just sitting there with a cone around them. guess its a fly tip.
Quote from BrookyP

If this is true, the WHAT are the authorities doing about it ? A cone implies [not always of course] that an "authority" has spotted the problem.

Perhaps the problem IS more widespread than what some believe.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on March 21, 2010, 05:40:49 pm
as i understand  grey asbestos was used in insulation boards/fireproofing on boilers ironing boards etc till the mid 80s and in some boilers till the mid 90's. its also everywhere in asbestolux sheeting which was used to roof garages.

Its fine really left alone and is only a problem when smashed up and thus creating dust. if you have any leave it where it is or coat with a resin paint to seal the problem in-or pay to get it removed.

It was all over my old garage in whetstone but only required the bare minimum of protection when the licensed firm removed it. (mask/paper suit/closed skip)

One interesting thing i found out was that its also in some old artex finishes. I was told this by my plasterer on saturday so we opted to have the artex ceiling bond coated and plastered rather than scraped off.

Blue/green? asbestos is much more high risk and was used in heating applications (lagging of boilers/lining flues etc)
My step dad used to cut it in the 60's/70's to line flues in industrial applications. Removal of that stuff is a much bigger deal with removers needing independant oxygen supplies to the operatives and closed sealed removal sites.

When i was a kid they took a load out at my school and decided to leave it in the playground in single seal bags (should be double bagged and in sealed skips.... my dad made me take a week off school until they removed it.

so that worked out well for me....


anyway all the above is as i understand it and does not constitute advice etc blah

bp






Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 21, 2010, 09:11:36 pm
All asbestos is the colour grey. The colour codes, blue, brown, white..are just codes to show how dense the fibres are, and that can only be done under a microscope..all of which can kill. One microscopic fibre can lay dormant in your lung for 20 years then suddenly turn in to a very aggresive cancer.  There is only one type of asbestos when it comes out of the ground - A grade - which BrookyP is talking about. It was used for lagging boilers etc and is a loose, fluffy dust. Then there's bonded where resin is added to form any shape e.g corrugated roofing. It concerns me that the old school rule book attitude that 10% is less hamrful than 100% when it's only one fibre that can kill. Anyone that tells you that some asbestos is less dangerous than others is wrong. Some is more dangerous to move than others hence different licencing requirements and equipment. I hold a licence to remove bonded asbestos in the UK and in Australia/New Zealand. Every three years there is a refresher course and lectures to attend. Every time, the rules change as they find out more and more about the dangers. By the way, the Australian government reckon it would take 200/300 years to eradicate asbestos in Australia. Quite daunting.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 21, 2010, 09:21:18 pm
Again - what Stevea says is of extreme interest. If what BrookyP says is right [no reason not to suppose so] then should the authorities have removed the stuff from the BP Station ? Why put a cone round it ? All it takes are some kids to break the material up [not being aware of the dangers] and there could be a problem. And with the dust that as Stevea says, just takes someone to inhale one fibre, and a potential and serious health problem could occur. Maybe the authorities ARE irresponsible in not having dealt with this problem in a different way.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 21, 2010, 10:58:26 pm
PS - You'll probably find the real reason why it's still there (if it is asbestos?) - see post 92 - or it might not be asbestos at all as there are many substitutes that look like it e.g fibro board, fibro cement etc. There's many a time where we've arrived at a job to remove dumped asbestos and it's not. People dump it because they think it is asbestos. This could be the case in the station car park.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bob Horrocks on March 22, 2010, 04:39:07 pm
SteveA - you are a mine of information   :o

Many thanks for giving us a free lesson on asbestos.  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 23, 2010, 02:59:37 am
Hello Bob. I hope it helped. I tried to simplify it the best way I could.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on March 24, 2010, 07:13:43 pm
asbestos? in BP station car park now gone and the cones arranged into a nice line by someone....noticed also a new load of junk dumped down by the station.

I mean if you live in a nice country ish area what better way to set the place off than tipping a load of crud all over it...

also did anyone notice the dumped black renault clio in the field off tollgate road on mon morning at 6am....

its all go in the fields of herts...

called it in btw

bp
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 30, 2010, 12:23:13 pm
Fly tipping should read horse tipping!!

A white transit van was spotted last night dumping a dead horse in Bradmore Lane.

Don't you think some sectors of our community are lovely?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Aidan Winwood on March 30, 2010, 01:36:50 pm
I heard about this was informed by a friend who stopped, that the van with it's flashing orange lights on was not dumping the pony [said the man the van of course].  This was about 10:50ish pm.

Aidan
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 30, 2010, 06:00:09 pm
Pardon? Aidan
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 30, 2010, 06:44:26 pm
Insert Quote
Pardon? Aidan
Quote

Indeed - the RBT would certainly sort this AW out!!  LOL
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 30, 2010, 06:56:42 pm
I think I must have fallen into a parallel universe where everybody speaks a slightly different language or perhaps I am having a nightmare and will wake up soon.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on March 30, 2010, 07:05:37 pm
Fly tipping should read horse tipping!!

A white transit van was spotted last night dumping a dead horse in Bradmore Lane.

Don't you think some sectors of our community are lovely?

When I was coming back from Hatfield on the train on Saturday, I saw a horse lying in a very muddy field, I did wonder at the time if it was dead but had sort of forgotten by the time I got home so didn't ring anyone about it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Flower on March 30, 2010, 07:49:25 pm
My daughter and I witnessed it happening. We saw a yellow pick up tipper truck go past us as it had just offloaded its contents (the chestnut horse) in the middle of the road at 9.15pm approx. We reported it immediately to the police and we were rather traumatised. It was awful.  :'(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 31, 2010, 02:33:32 am
Believe it or not, horse dumping is quite common. It happens regularly over here and in New Zealand.
In the past, I've had calls to dispose of horses but I forward them to a specialised company who charges
$550-00 to collect and perform 'a special burial'. People living on acreage generally bury them on their land.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 05:18:05 am
I hope that this 'dead horse dumping' is not a practice or ritual of some sort conducted by 'The Travellers' by any chance ? Perhaps Stevea with his intimate knowledge of the gypsies could advise us accordingly ?   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 31, 2010, 06:12:10 am
Hi PS - I've no doubt that there would be some gypsies within the community (ones I won't mention) that would dump dead horses, but with the gypsies that I know, there is no way they would do that.  Some gypsies can be quite superstitious and have respect for their horses. In this instance, it could be anyone who owned a horse.
Some people simply have no respect for any of their pets, e.g quite often, Brisbane City Council fish out dead cats and dogs from the transfer stations...they could only have got there by wheelie bin. Personally, if I owned a dog or cat for years and it passed away, I wouldn't just sling it in the bin.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 06:51:37 am
So...is it possible that this 'dead horse dumping' is simply the result of the ever deepening recession in the UK whereby people simply do not have the money to dispose of them in the knackers yards ? And when the recession deepens further, will we see a similar pattern evolving dead pets being dumped as opposed to people paying the ever increasing vet fees to have them properly disposed of ?

In a way, an analogy could be drawn with why people dump asbestos - as it costs too much to remove.     
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on March 31, 2010, 09:04:59 am
Hi PS - Have you seen the cost of funerals these days? I've always said to my wfe jokingly, when it's my time, just throw me on a skip - but the way skip prices are going up these days, I might end up in a hedge in Bradmore Lane!
 ;D
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 09:24:10 am
Well - Stevea - you wouldn't be far wrong - I suppose you could always ask for a 'paupers' funeral - at least you'd end up in box - unlike some parts of West Africa I've worked in, where I've seen corpses float on by the rivers to the sea !!!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on March 31, 2010, 12:21:42 pm
A few years ago I found a dead horse which had been dumped on the side of Warrengate Road by the brook.   It was really shocking and upsetting to see such a large animal dumped in that way.  I hope Flower and her daughter are ok.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 01:51:58 pm
Quote
A few years ago I found a dead horse which had been dumped on the side of Warrengate Road by the brook.

Can someone in the know tell us something - (1) Is it illegal to dump dead horses on roads, countryside etc (I assume it is - unless some obscure law would inform us otherwise) and (2) is there not a legal requirement to have horses (and other animals) "chipped" rather like dogs and cats are ? I understand it recommended to chip pets but does that level of leniency, if applicable, apply to horses ?

If they ARE chipped then this way the dead horse could be traced back to the owner, and charged accordingly.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on March 31, 2010, 04:50:36 pm
Quote
is there not a legal requirement to have horses (and other animals) "chipped" rather like dogs and cats are ?

Wasn't aware that it was a legal requirement to have household pets microchipped? A quick google suggests only a third of them are. Google also shows this webpage link which suggests it is not currently a legal requirement to have horses chipped, although it may be in the future:

http://www.mvol.co.uk/paragonvet/equineinfo/basic/microchipping.vm (http://www.mvol.co.uk/paragonvet/equineinfo/basic/microchipping.vm)

James
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 05:32:06 pm
Thee is no legal requirement to have dogs and cats chipped.

I believe there should be so going forward, so that we can keep a control of instances of this sort - a database as such could mean that dead horses on public land may become a thing of the past. Hit the perpetrators where it REALLY hurts - the pocket - would save a lot of grief and nightmares that the likes of Flower & Daughter may be currently experiencing.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: colinr on March 31, 2010, 05:57:25 pm
Article on Radio Four

The government is proposing new measures to deal with dangerous dogs, including compulsory insurance for every dog-owner in the UK. Ministers say they are responding to growing public concern about vicious dogs being used to intimidate people.

James Beaufoy, secretary of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier club, told the Today programme that inserting a microchip under the skin of certain breeds of dog "will help combat the breeding of dangerous dogs. It puts the onus on the person who owns the dog".

But, while agreeing with the general proposal, Peter Tallack, a former Met Police dog handler who now trains police forces around the UK on how to deal with dangerous dogs, told the programme that chipping dogs would be "no good unless there is a registration on the end of it".

But he added that "the difficulty was always establishing who was the owner, who was in control of the dog. I don't think there's a choice other than dog registration in the next few years to try and prevent this, because at least if a dog wasn't registered or it wasn't microchipped we wouldn't be wasting hours of man hours trying to find out who the owner was".

Listen to this audio link, these are the people you are dealing with to try and chip their dog no chance !!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8557000/8557099.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8557000/8557099.stm)

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 06:13:30 pm
Quote
no good unless there is a registration on the end of it

Then the legal process should ensure that there IS a registered owner at the end of it - surely SOMEONE has to pay for the chipping - it don't come free !!! And should you dispose of your pet / animal / beast [wives ? LOL] etc to others then the process should ensure that a registration document showing change of ownership has to be filled in. Hence you start the process of accountability.

I simply cannot believe that this guy on the radio made such a comment - come on !! 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: colinr on March 31, 2010, 06:24:27 pm

Quote from PS "Then the legal process should ensure that there IS a registered owner at the end of it - surely SOMEONE has to pay for the chipping"



PS you are correct but listening to the dog owners on this audio, not a hope in hell they will do this, rather like the yobs who drive an uninsured, untaxed car without an MOT or driving licence.

Its only the people like you and me with our Chiwawas or Labradoodles who will obey the law :icon_jokercolor:
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on March 31, 2010, 06:34:56 pm
Quote
Its only the people like you and me with our Chiwawas or Labradoodles who will obey the law

Yes - I believe that is the problem. A partial solution (or start( would be for ALL registered owners of pedigree dogs to ENSURE registration has happened before a sale takes place, and then furbish the necessary details to the authorities when the transaction happens. But then I suppose that the "back street"sellers would get round this. Perhaps some random chip testing by the RSPCA might get round this, or vets empowered to  only treat animals that ARE chipped.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on April 01, 2010, 04:44:10 am
I have a Staffordshire Bull Terrier called Sally, and an English Bull Terrier called George.
Both are registered and micro chipped and are the most friendliest dogs you could come across.  :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on April 01, 2010, 06:46:20 am
By the way, the easiest way to tell if a dog is micro chipped - there will be a small tattoo inside the ear.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on April 01, 2010, 09:54:37 am
Quote
there will be a small tattoo inside the ear.

Does that apply to all the teenage "hoodies" that have "ta...oos" meaning law enforcement can identify them & keep them under control ???LOL
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on June 02, 2010, 12:39:22 pm
Just the regular mundane routine daily/weekly/monthly (delete as applicable) report of some low-life dumping a load of asbestos in Bradmore Lane.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Hillside on June 02, 2010, 12:54:37 pm
there will be a small tattoo inside the ear.

FYI : Dogs microchipped in the UK do not necessarily have a tattoo inside the ear...tattooing is a separate form of identification.

Also..as a general point..even if the dog is microchipped it doen't mean they will be traced back to the owner as in some cases the chip moves and the scanner (or person operating it) doesn't detect the chip as they are looking in the wrong place!   ::)



edited to fix quote
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on June 02, 2010, 08:24:45 pm
I've notified ( 2 days ago) the council about the tyres and corrugated roofing in Bradmore Lane. Let's see how long they take to remove it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: stevea on June 03, 2010, 12:06:19 am
there will be a small tattoo inside the ear.

FYI : Dogs microchipped in the UK do not necessarily have a tattoo inside the ear...tattooing is a separate form of identification.

Also..as a general point..even if the dog is microchipped it doen't mean they will be traced back to the owner as in some cases the chip moves and the scanner (or person operating it) doesn't detect the chip as they are looking in the wrong place!   ::)



edited to fix quote
When I took my dogs to the vet to be micro chipped , it was compulsory here to place a small, concealed tattoo in their ear. This is to tell anyone that finds the dog if lost etc, that it is micro chipped. It’s the whole point of having the tattoo.  Therefore, they are more thorough when using the scanner. The tattoo is a small circle with a line through it.  It is not a naked lady or a heart with a dagger through it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 07, 2010, 02:19:58 pm
Have you had any fir trees removed recently by someone who shredded the smaller branches, used a chain saw on the trunk and loaded larger branches?  Do you recognise the plastic trimming and fencing parts here?  If so it might be worth giving them a call and asking them to clear the mess down Bradmore Lane. The branches at the corner of Station Road and Bradmore may belong to them, too.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Aloo on October 07, 2010, 03:22:39 pm
I've reported the dumped trees/branches to Welhat Council who will arrange for it to be cleared.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on October 23, 2010, 10:39:59 am
Yet more rubbish dumped in Bradmore Lane - one load of builders rubble and another of turf and grass cuttings.
(I have reported this to WHDC)

Whilst the railway bridge was closed and Bradmore Lane became more of a quite backwater I thought fly tipping
would increase but actually the reverse happened with very little all summer.

This seems to suggest that traffic coming from the direction of BP is resposible for the majority of fly tipping.

Perhaps we should all be more vigilant in who we choose to employ and not necessarily go for the cheapest
option - disposing of waste is pretty expensive and a professional will factor this into their price.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 23, 2010, 12:18:23 pm

Perhaps we should all be more vigilant in who we choose to employ and not necessarily go for the cheapest
option - disposing of waste is pretty expensive and a professional will factor this into their price.

Absolutely. Always ask those doing work how they plan to dispose of any waste.  Don't hire them if they offer a cheap cash-in-hand deal.   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on October 23, 2010, 02:16:37 pm
Absolutely. Always ask those doing work how they plan to dispose of any waste.  Don't hire them if they offer a cheap cash-in-hand deal.   

Problems : (a) those you ask may well tell you want you want to hear [and dispose as they wish] (b) assume you do not accept the cheapest cash-in-hand deal, again there is no guarantee that they will dispose of the waste properly anyway [ie in effect, "mark-up" their profits by adopting the easy solution] (c) in these "austerity measure" days with years of people having to be frugal, then they will naturally lean towards the cheapest option [as they don't care of how their waste is disposed of - 'what the eye don't see the mind...'] 

So it is not as easy as simply asking them how they intend to dispose of the waste.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on October 23, 2010, 03:55:54 pm
I dispose of General and Electrical waste on a regular basis. if they dont have a waste carrier licence-then i dont deal.

it really is that simple....if you want your world to stay nice (and cheap to inhabit) then skip it or dump it at a licensed site

if someone wants a cheap deal thats what they will get-and they will pay for it through the hikes in council tax due to council costs in disposing of the dumped waste to landfill...currently I think £80 per tonne.

It must be said that councils will sell waste if they can (metal 80p to £3 kilo depending/rags I think £680 per metric tonne/plastic also has some value)

but they cant flog old trees and general crud from building works.....it all comes back to us in the end...bit like trying to sweep mercury up a slide.

there are no freebies in this life-buy cheap and pay twice....bp
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on October 23, 2010, 04:15:26 pm
Anyone want a TV? There was one dumped on the verge near the letter box top end of Moffats today.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on November 04, 2010, 11:12:15 am
Has anyone had a tree cut down in their garden in the last few days and probably paid good money to have it removed.   Well, you might like to know that it was dumped in the middle of Warrengate Road on Tuesday evening just north of the bungalows completely blocking the road.    >:(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 04, 2010, 01:36:45 pm
How dangerous , irresponsible, stupid, lazy is that?
The perpetrators should be shot (or at the very least locked up)
Now if I was Prime Minister.......
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alfred the Great on November 04, 2010, 09:11:13 pm
Were there any decent logs among it? It's that time of year when the wood burner needs feeding........
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: PS on November 05, 2010, 12:51:36 pm
How dangerous , irresponsible, stupid, lazy is that?
The perpetrators should be shot (or at the very least locked up)
Now if I was Prime Minister.......

As ATG says logs are needed - perhaps they dumped the tree for a reason - why not think good of people instead of bad all the time ?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 05, 2010, 05:14:55 pm
How dangerous , irresponsible, stupid, lazy is that?
The perpetrators should be shot (or at the very least locked up)
Now if I was Prime Minister.......

As ATG says logs are needed - perhaps they dumped the tree for a reason - why not think good of people instead of bad all the time ?

PS - You are sooo right! Thats exactly what I thought as I came around the corner on my motor cycle and a branch
gouged straight into my eye and into the back of my brain - just before the lights went out.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 19, 2011, 04:26:03 pm
Police say action will be taken agains home owners whose building rubbish is fly tipped by contractors if the material can be traced back to them. The warning comes in the latest Neighbourhood Watch newsletter.

"If we find documents and can trace the owner of the rubbish they become liable for the fly tip and will be fined."

Police have also called on everyone to watch out for anyone fly tipping and report them.

"If you see anyone fly tipping, make a note of the registration number, type of vehicle and description of both the vehicle and the occupants if you can and report it to the police immediately. You will be witnessing a crime in progress."
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 10, 2011, 06:27:10 pm
If you have recently had new carpets fitted and a lick of white emulsion paint applied to your walls you may want to look at these pictures taken along the footpath 14 just off West End Lane between Wild Hill and West End.  If you look closely you can see off cuts of the carpet.  The fly tipping is about five minutes walk down the path, so it would have been a van that was used, a larger vehicles would struggle with some of the turns.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/ft1.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/ft2.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/ft3.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/ft5.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/ft4.jpg)


   
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 10, 2011, 09:16:06 pm
"If we find documents and can trace the owner of the rubbish they become liable for the fly tip and will be fined."

One wonders how much traceable evidence is apparent in fly tipped waste.

IMO 0%.

Let's be realistic, most people do not include their gas, electric or mobile bills into their builder's/contractors rubbish etc.  Jeezus whepps.

 It's well past time for the Government, Police and Welhat to up the ante on fly tipping. New hard hitting legislation is needed asap.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 10, 2011, 09:19:11 pm
There are numbers for reporting fly tipping.

http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/fly_tipping.aspx#reporting (http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/fly_tipping.aspx#reporting)

I will give them a ring tomorrow and give the location.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 10, 2011, 09:42:18 pm
There are numbers for reporting fly tipping.

http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/fly_tipping.aspx#reporting (http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/fly_tipping.aspx#reporting)

I will give them a ring tomorrow and give the location.

Good call DB. This may result in the rubbish being cleared but it will not stem the problem.
The council/police are completely inept in their tackling and prosecuting of the offenders because they are afraid of them or afraid of entering their territories.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 11, 2011, 04:10:43 pm
FYI, very friendly and efficient team dealing with fly tipping at Welwyn Hatfield. Sent them the pics and map and they are on the case. I called Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council on 01707 357000, skipped the options and waited for a receptionist and put right through.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on November 12, 2011, 01:54:29 pm
Thanks a lot to the idiot who has thought it is acceptable to dump a double bed mattress (the latest in a long line of dumped items) at the Youth & Community Centre car park. It's nice to know you think it's acceptable to dispose your rubbish on us. I love spending my time organising tonight's Quiz Night so that the Centre (which is a charity) has enough money to pay to dispose of your waste.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 12, 2011, 03:48:33 pm
Thanks a lot to the idiot ......

He/she's not an idiot but a criminal, but the local authorities choose to ignore the detection, arresting and prosecuting of them as they're more intent on enforcing Wheelie Bin Offences and issuing of Parking Tickets and the like to mainly law abiding genial citizens who are far more easier pickings to extract money from by way of fines as opposed to the lawless type of scum who fly tip.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2011, 04:50:26 pm
I love spending my time organising tonight's Quiz Night so that the Centre (which is a charity) has enough money to pay to dispose of your waste.

It's so sad that people like Ferdie and all the other volunteers spend their valuable leisure time raising funds to pay for clearing the fly tipping.

the local authorities choose to ignore the detection, arresting and prosecuting of them

Do you really think they do, Bedlam?  I am not so sure. Isn't it more that they are hard to catch? From the information I have found on the Herts police site and the local authority site they appear keen to deal with fly tipping. They were certainly keen for a full report from me when I reported the recent find. I think the issue is how to deal with it. But I am not sure if't fair or accurate to say they are ignoring it. However, I may be wrong.

as they're more intent on enforcing Wheelie Bin Offences and issuing of Parking Tickets and the like to mainly law abiding genial citizens

Not sure people who park illegally can be described as law abiding. And on the wheelie bin issue, isn't putting the wrong stuff in the wrong bin - ie not recycling- a form of fly tipping?

By the way, I found this picture on Wikipedia. Now that's some fly tipping. And in such a public place, too, just by a sign that says 'no dumping'.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/november11/flytipping.jpg)

Image by Alan Stanton from Wikipedia, released under Creative Commons.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 12, 2011, 05:29:49 pm
the local authorities choose to ignore the detection, arresting and prosecuting of them

Do you really think they do, Bedlam?  I am not so sure. Isn't it more that they are hard to catch? From the information I have found on the Herts police site and the local authority site they appear keen to deal with fly tipping. They were certainly keen for a full report from me when I reported the recent find. I think the issue is how to deal with it. But I am not sure if't fair or accurate to say they are ignoring it. However, I may be wrong.


http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/400_fly_tips_in_hertsmere_one_prosecution_1_1023981 (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/400_fly_tips_in_hertsmere_one_prosecution_1_1023981)

According to this article in WH Times there were 368 instances of fly tipping in Hertsmere
costing £28,000 to clear and fund 94 enforcement actions resulting in ONE successful prosecution
resulting in a fine of £494!!! (why only this amount? I thought the max fine was £20,000).
Nationally £40,000,000 with only £692,000 in fines!
Whilst local authorities are obviously not ignoring the situation (although it is interesting to note the councillors comments about diverting money could affect other services) clearly the action being taken by local authorities is NOT working.
Why do they not install more cameras in the known fly tipping locations to gather evidence,
surely this would prove to be cost effective - especially as many fly tippers are serial and then
fine serious amounts.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 12, 2011, 06:50:48 pm
the local authorities choose to ignore the detection, arresting and prosecuting of them

Do you really think they do, Bedlam?  I am not so sure. Isn't it more that they are hard to catch? From the information I have found on the Herts police site and the local authority site they appear keen to deal with fly tipping. They were certainly keen for a full report from me when I reported the recent find. I think the issue is how to deal with it. But I am not sure if't fair or accurate to say they are ignoring it. However, I may be wrong.

According to this article in WH Times there were 368 instances of fly tipping in Hertsmere
costing £28,000 to clear and fund 94 enforcement actions resulting in ONE successful prosecution
resulting in a fine of £494!!! (why only this amount? I thought the max fine was £20,000).
Nationally £40,000,000 with only £692,000 in fines!


ONE prosecution, yes only ONE solitary prosecution and with minimal fines. Thanks, I think this justifies exactly the point of my previous post.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2011, 08:13:13 pm
Hi Epiphany and Bedlam, It's hard to know what the authorities can do.

Webcams or CCTV at all known blackspots (and 10 minutes walk down remote footpaths as in the case I reported this week). Not sure that's possible or affordable. Police officers sitting in country lanes checking on every vehicle?

What do you suggest they could be doing that they are not doing?  Don't get me wrong, I am as concerned as you, but to prosecute people need to be arrested and there needs to be evidence. Is it that easy? 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on November 12, 2011, 08:57:32 pm
You can't change the behaviour or attitude of people - they think it's acceptable - fines and imprisonment have no effect as the chances of getting caught (and the chances of any meaningful penalty) are slim. It's a disgusting abuse of the countryside - I hate seeing it, and if it's stuff in a ditch it never gets back to how it was before as there is always some stuff left behind, and clearing it costs a lot because they tend to tip in inaccessible spots.

If the council took the rubbish for free then I suspect most flytipping would go away. It might work out cheaper to take waste which is brought to you and dispose of it compared to the cost of sending people out to retrieve it from difficult to access areas like ditches, streams and in forests etc.

I hate to be paying for it as a council tax payer, and it's not fair, but I think it's the only way to stop it :(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 12, 2011, 09:09:58 pm
If the council took the rubbish for free then I suspect most flytipping would go away. It might work out cheaper to take waste which is brought to you and dispose of it compared to the cost of sending people out to retrieve it from difficult to access areas like ditches, streams and in forests etc.

Could that be one answer to the problem? Take away the apparent need to fly tip?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 12, 2011, 10:40:42 pm
Hi Epiphany and Bedlam, It's hard to know what the authorities can do.

Webcams or CCTV at all known blackspots (and 10 minutes walk down remote footpaths as in the case I reported this week). Not sure that's possible or affordable.


Fund it with the revenue from the fines!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 13, 2011, 09:55:29 am
Fund it with the revenue from the fines!

The trouble with that would be that the expenditure would have to come before the revenue was generated, and I think putting the infrastructure in place to gather the evidence needed might be financially prohibitive.

On the bridleway I walked along last week there must be a 20+ bends between the southern entrance on West End Lane (north of The Woodman) to the northern exit on West End Lane (to the east of The Candlestick).

Fly tipping has taken place along various spots on that BOAT (byway open to all traffic). To actually get video evidence of someone dumping, as opposed to driving down the BOAT, there would probably have to be 20+ cameras, and all the associated wiring, maintenance, signage etc. And that's just one path.

And that's the problem. There are so many spots that could be used.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 13, 2011, 10:25:59 am
Fund it with the revenue from the fines!

The trouble with that would be that the expenditure would have to come before the revenue was generated, and I think putting the infrastructure in place to gather the evidence needed might be financially prohibitive.

On the bridleway I walked along last week there must be a 20+ bends between the southern entrance on West End Lane (north of The Woodman) to the northern exit on West End Lane (to the east of The Candlestick).

Fly tipping has taken place along various spots on that BOAT (byway open to all traffic). To actually get video evidence of someone dumping, as opposed to driving down the BOAT, there would probably have to be 20+ cameras, and all the associated wiring, maintenance, signage etc. And that's just one path.

And that's the problem. There are so many spots that could be used.

David

Surely one camera at the entrance to this particular BOAT would be enough to show a full vehicle
arriving and an empty one leaving - most dumping on any scale appears to be straight off the
back of a tipper and would be readily visible, also there would be a much greater deterrent
value with the use of cameras, especially in conjunction with larger fines much nearer the current
max of £20k.
This combined with slimgyms suggestion of a more accepting attitude by the council tip
would IMO be a better and cheaper option than sending two blokes out in a van to clear up
afterwards and it all ending up in landfill anyway.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 13, 2011, 12:01:35 pm
You may be right. Not sure what the local authority strategy is. It would be good if someone would post on this site letting us know, not in order to give the game away, but more as a deterrent, perhaps.  Having said that, I still think there are so many possible fly tipping sites that I would imagine the authorities would have to spend a fortune on cameras and infrastructure. And I wonder whether they would actually need pictures of the tipping taking place for a successful prosecution?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 13, 2011, 03:47:32 pm
You can't change the behaviour or attitude of people - they think it's acceptable.....

If strategically placed static and mobile CCTV observation posts were set-up by WelHat and the evidence gained was backed-up by the statutory seizure and crushing of offender's vehicles then this may have an educational effect on the acceptable attitdes and amount of the local fly-tipping offenders.

But, in general, it seems that the Government and WelHat are more interested in fining motorists for trivial offences as they are easy pickings for the revenue gained as opposed to doing something positive for the majority of law abiders who are blighted by these illegal acts.  ::)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 13, 2011, 04:08:16 pm
But, in general, it seems that the Government and WelHat are more interested in fining motorists for trivial offences as they are easy pickings for the revenue gained as opposed to doing something positive for the majority of law abiders who are blighted by these illegal acts.  ::)

I am all for law breaking motorists being fined. If people break the law they have to face the consequences, but that has nothing to do with fly tipping. And, regarding fly tipping, I think we need more information before making generalisations.

I don't know what the main local and national government focus is, however I do continually see fly tipping on my walks. Most is in remote areas which I guess are hard to monitor. All I can say, from experience, is when I wanted to report fly tipping the numbers were easy to find and I got an extremely positive response from someone clearly in the know and who seemed to have a brief on what to do next. My approach was followed up by email and I was even told that a team was going out to investigate.  Hardly a lack of interest.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on November 13, 2011, 06:04:25 pm
You can report flytipping online at http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/BrowserCheck (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/BrowserCheck)
I've usually found that the council are pretty good at removing rubbish. But note that if the tipping is on private land, it is the landowner who is saddled with the task of removing it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 14, 2011, 03:58:22 pm
Been clearing the garden today of leaves, found several spent fireworks, should this thread be under this heading of "fly tipping in the local countryside" or "fireworks" thanks David :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 22, 2011, 09:37:33 am
Beware if travelling down Bradmore Lane this morning as somebody thought it would be good
idea to empty the entire contents of their tipper truck all over the road in the fog.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 22, 2011, 09:39:13 am
Forgot to say, I have already reported it to the Police.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on December 01, 2011, 09:37:33 am
A heap of rubbish has been dumped again at the football pitch behind the North Mymms Community Centre in Welham Green. This is the third lot of rubbish to be dumped there in a very short time. Why drive all the way up there, when you could just use Bradmore Lane, eh?  ::) 

I've included 3 pictures to see if anyone recognises it. Note the white tiles (they look a bit grey in the photo) and some turquoise paint.

The other day, there was a bath in Bulls Lane, followed by a settee. Both have now been cleared, but I've included a photo of the settee... I await to see where the loo will be dumped...
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on December 01, 2011, 09:11:28 pm
But, in general, it seems that the Government and WelHat are more interested in fining motorists for trivial offences as they are easy pickings for the revenue gained as opposed to doing something positive for the majority of law abiders who are blighted by these illegal acts.  ::)

".....and I was even told that a team was going out to investigate.  Hardly a lack of interest.....

Whoooh hoooh, what were they they going out to investigate? Fly tipping. So they then  observed  the obvious fact that Fly Tipping had taken place and once they investigated that the said  "team" did what? "FA Ma Lord", otherwise they'd have something constructive to report to us re arrests, prosecutions etc. but alas nothing along these hopes and aspirations has ever transpired.

With only one prosecution for Fly Tipping in recent years, this highlights WelHat's Council's attention and  priorities regarding fly-tipping, ie. zilch, niemals, not interested, we don't care.


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: jet on December 02, 2011, 12:13:58 am
Who in BP would admit to such a style of tile :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 02, 2011, 01:33:32 am
".....and I was even told that a team was going out to investigate.  Hardly a lack of interest.....

Whoooh hoooh, what were they they going out to investigate? Fly tipping. So they then  observed  the obvious fact that Fly Tipping had taken place and once they investigated that the said  "team" did what? "FA Ma Lord", otherwise they'd have something constructive to report to us re arrests, prosecutions etc. but alas nothing along these hopes and aspirations has ever transpired.

With only one prosecution for Fly Tipping in recent years, this highlights WelHat's Council's attention and  priorities regarding fly-tipping, ie. zilch, niemals, not interested, we don't care.




Hi Bedlam,

Clearly, their (the council workers who receive reports of fly tipping) use of the term 'investigate' to describe going to the location and dealing with the matter. Which they did promptly. He used the term 'team' because I guess it's never a one-person job.

I have not contacted the council again to see if there have been any prosecutions as a result.  But my guess is that the department that responds to reports of fly tipping would not actually deal with the legal process of investigating who did it and trying to catch them. But I don't know.

And as Susan reported a few post higher up, an incident she saw down Bradmore Lane was cleared after being reported.

So I think we need to separate 1) the council's response to reports of fly-tipping - which in my experience has been superb, 2) the methods and action taken to prevent fly-tipping taking place, and 3) bringing the culprits to justice.

I am not sure it's fair to cane the civil servants who receive the reports and deal with it on the ground.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on December 05, 2011, 03:25:13 pm
Yet more recent dumping in Bradmore Lane, two lots of conifer cuttings and now ironically
right next to the sign that says No Fly Tipping, a sofa and loads of other stuff.
I think this action speaks volumes about the attitude of the dumpers and their feeling of absolute
immunity from any prosecution due to the total lack of any initiative or proactive action on behalf the local authority.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on December 08, 2011, 11:12:01 pm
Had to divert tonight, a load tipped tonight on the lane between The Woodman at Wildhill and the Candlesticks blocking the road. Very dangerous, no street lighting, country lane just blocked by flytipped waste. HCC aware.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on December 09, 2011, 05:08:14 pm
Had to divert tonight, a load tipped tonight on the lane between The Woodman at Wildhill and the Candlesticks blocking the road. Very dangerous, no street lighting, country lane just blocked by flytipped waste. HCC aware.
This needs to be sorted once and for all - who is doing this?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on December 09, 2011, 05:52:28 pm
This needs to be sorted once and for all - who is doing this?

Sadly, it is the result of the high cost of waste carrier licensing and landfill tax (one of the factors behind the 'need' for the incinerator). We all have a part to play, we don't want the incinerator, we don't want land fill, we want work done cheaply and we use unlicensed, cheap labour and it is those individuals that are dumping their waste where they want, so we all end up paying for it, except of course the perpetrators. Some may not be 'trade' but just selfish individuals who cannot be bothered to dispose of waste properly.

The Police can't be everywhere, if we use a trade that offers to take away the waste; before we use them, ask where and how they dispose of their waste. If they can't tell you or go all cagey and cannot produce a waste carrier licence they are probably acting illegally, so don't use them.

The problem is, lots of people don't check, or probably don't care and it only takes one 'customer' to get taken in by the 'cheap' option (& who blames them in these difficult times) and you have a blocked country road.

If you see any suspicious activity, get vehicle numbers and descriptions and pass them to the Police. You may have a suspicion about a flat back truck or white van loaded up with waste driving off down a country lane, take the reg number and pass it on to the Police. It may be all the evidence that they need to link the fly tipping to a vehicle. Prosecution may be another matter, but it's a start. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on December 10, 2011, 06:02:33 pm
A huge amount of waste, including a sofa and two armchairs, has been dumped on Grubbs Lane near the junction with Woodside, and has spilled out on the road creating a serious hazard to motorists. I have now reported this (twice) to the council.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on December 11, 2011, 07:27:11 pm
Had to divert tonight, a load tipped tonight on the lane between The Woodman at Wildhill and the Candlesticks blocking the road. Very dangerous, no street lighting, country lane just blocked by flytipped waste. HCC aware.
This needs to be sorted once and for all - who is doing this?

Or - Who is doing nothing about it? Answer = Welhat Council
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on December 11, 2011, 07:58:59 pm
There are some things I would be shouting at the Council about. They have my sympathy on this one though. At a time of austerity with limited (And falling budgets) for most departments - well, what would you do about fly tipping? What service would you cut to pay for the necessary manpower/ equipment to deal with it?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: pinchefalise on December 12, 2011, 09:04:52 am
Divert the gardening squad at this time of year?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on December 12, 2011, 09:35:06 am
Divert the gardening squad at this time of year?

The gardening is tendered out to specialist contractors.
Surely it would not cost a fortune to place a few cameras in the known regular spots - just
ask the guys who clear it up - they will know where they are.
It is probably the same people more often than not that are dumping and if they can be
caught and fined or at the very least deterred by a pro-active rather than
re-active stance from the council then the cost savings from a significantly reduced need
to clear up and the associated land fill costs could make the project self funded.
I saw an article recently about fly tipping where the prosecution was brought about by the
Environment Agency - Does anybody know if it is actually the EA in this area that should be taking
the lead in this rather than the council?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on December 14, 2011, 08:23:59 pm
Divert the gardening squad at this time of year?
Surely it would not cost a fortune to place a few cameras in the known regular spots....

Well said.

Welhat feel it's fit to send Traffic Wardens creeping about around obscure back-street yellow lined areas, issuing PCN's to local residents and their visitors who, in the main, are law abiding folk not causing obstruction or harm to anyone, yet WelHat turn a blind eye to Fly-Tipping which is an eyesore, costs £thousands to clear and is a danger to us all.

If WelHat pursued Fly-Tipping with the same zeal as they do issuing Parking Tickets then a change may come.........alas this will not happen as the mainly law-abiding local motorist is a far easier cash-cow target than an outlaw Fly-Tipper.

Maybe someone from WelHat Council would like to comment if there are any  firm proposals to combat Fly-Tipping? I think not, but I am willing to be disproved.

PS - If there is no response, may we assume that no-one from WelHat Council gleans these boards or cares?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on December 14, 2011, 10:21:19 pm
Divert the gardening squad at this time of year?
Surely it would not cost a fortune to place a few cameras in the known regular spots....

Well said.

Welhat feel it's fit to send Traffic Wardens creeping about around obscure back-street yellow lined areas, issuing PCN's to local residents and their visitors who, in the main, are law abiding folk not causing obstruction or harm to anyone, yet WelHat turn a blind eye to Fly-Tipping which is an eyesore, costs £thousands to clear and is a danger to us all.

If WelHat pursued Fly-Tipping with the same zeal as they do issuing Parking Tickets then a change may come.........alas this will not happen as the mainly law-abiding local motorist is a far easier cash-cow target than an outlaw Fly-Tipper.

Maybe someone from WelHat Council would like to comment if there are any  firm proposals to combat Fly-Tipping? I think not, but I am willing to be disproved.

PS - If there is no response, may we assume that no-one from WelHat Council gleans these boards or cares?
agreed.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on December 31, 2011, 06:12:08 pm
Had a wander down Bradmore Lane today and was surprised at the amount or rubbish that seems to be everywhere.

Lots of dumped rubbish that seems to be merging and being reclaimed by nature into the road side banks.

I spotted a shed felt roof/tyres and some abandoned tool cases (probably nicked out of some poor guys van!!)...Its a real shame....

On the upside the wildlife was out in force which was cool.

We also saw a poor mountain biker caught short and  trying to have a discreet number two just off the footpath...LOL

We abandoned the walk mid way as we came out fully unprepared and got so muddy that even a pint at the local boozer was out of the question.

As Withnail would say "we went on a walk by mistake"

Happy days in BP.....BP

Note: Edited only to insert the name Bradmore Lane after merging the threads and losing the location reference (sorry). David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 31, 2011, 06:15:37 pm
Had a wander down there today and was surprised at the amount or rubbish that seems to be everywhere.

I think some of the roof tiles down there might be asbestos, so don't get too close. I have reported it.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 31, 2011, 06:17:25 pm
Oops, sorry BrookyP, I merged this with the existing thread but it lost your reference to Bradmore Lane. I've edited it to insert it.  Apologies. David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on December 31, 2011, 06:19:50 pm
didnt see the tiles but that stuff is usually asbestolux so pretty low risk...especially in this damp weather...

it shouldn't be there though so lets hope our friend at WHC will clear it up...

they will probably try to burn it at there new big chimnea they are building in NB...

bp



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on January 23, 2012, 09:36:18 am
Came out of candlesticks last night and went down West End Lane in Wildhill.

We nearly wrote the car off as someone had dumped a truck load of garden waste in the middle of the road!!

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on January 23, 2012, 03:00:02 pm
Came out of candlesticks last night and went down West End Lane in Wildhill.

We nearly wrote the car off as someone had dumped a truck load of garden waste in the middle of the road!!

Appears not the 1st time either, sounds like this was the same as in an earlier comment reply 203. Until people insist on seeing appropriate 'waste carrier licenses' of trades they use, or the perpetrators caught and dealt with appropriately, this type of anti social behaviour will continue. Unless there is clear evidence in the fly tipped waste, there is no chance of tracing the perpetrators and those that are doing it, know it so carry on.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on January 23, 2012, 09:16:54 pm
The local council are more interested in spending money on planting roadside trees to crash into and painting white lines on the sides of local roads to somehow miraculously slow down traffic rather than actions aimed to catching these filthy scumbags.

Ho hum, the Council knows best what antagonises us most don't they? Not.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on April 13, 2012, 01:52:53 pm
Found this dumped on 11 April in Bulls Lane.

I rang Welhat council, and spoke to the dumped rubbish person. First, before my query was even clear, I had to give all my details. Then it transpired that as it ran onto the highway, it "wasn't their responsibility, gov".  I should ring Herts County Council. I asked if the woman could pass on the message, as I was walking the dog. She was adamant that she couldn't do it and gave me the appropriate number. I had no pen or paper, so used a stick and the mud to write it down!

HCC did get it cleared quickly, but I was really disappointed with the district council's response.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on April 13, 2012, 02:11:11 pm
Last Saturday (7th) I walked from The Community Centre to Bulls Lane across by the football pitch and there was a load of rubbish dumped on there too.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: LuckyDuck on April 13, 2012, 03:16:42 pm
Found this dumped on 11 April in Bulls Lane.

I rang Welhat council, and spoke to the dumped rubbish person. First, before my query was even clear, I had to give all my details. Then it transpired that as it ran onto the highway, it "wasn't their responsibility, gov".  I should ring Herts County Council. I asked if the woman could pass on the message, as I was walking the dog. She was adamant that she couldn't do it and gave me the appropriate number. I had no pen or paper, so used a stick and the mud to write it down!

HCC did get it cleared quickly, but I was really disappointed with the district council's response.


Yes i drove past at 10am wednesday. I called hatfield council and they put me throught to the right department and i gave me my details and she then said she will put it throught to the Guys who clear up the fly tipping.


Its weird that you had a different experience to me.
They were really nice and helpfull when i spoke to them.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on April 13, 2012, 06:09:59 pm
I think my mistake was mentioning it was a road hazard, so they could pass it on to the county council!

Pity we didn't speak to the same person, as she could have told me that you had reported it a couple of hours earlier. :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: LuckyDuck on April 13, 2012, 08:05:11 pm
I think my mistake was mentioning it was a road hazard, so they could pass it on to the county council!

Pity we didn't speak to the same person, as she could have told me that you had reported it a couple of hours earlier. :)

Oh well no worries its fixed now.:)

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: chicken legs on April 13, 2012, 11:28:46 pm
Last Saturday (7th) I walked from The Community Centre to Bulls Lane across by the football pitch and there was a load of rubbish dumped on there too.

Ufortunately, that's been there for months.  I rang the Welwyn Hatfield Council and they said they couldn't do anything as they don't own the land and they couldn't tell me who does. 

I raised it at the NM Parish Council AGM last week and apparently the land is leased to the Community Centre and they will have to pay to have it cleared.   That seems wrong.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on April 14, 2012, 10:18:55 pm
I raised it at the NM Parish Council AGM last week and apparently the land is leased to the Community Centre and they will have to pay to have it cleared.   That seems wrong.

Sadly it is true, the Community Centre has been clearing fly tipped rubbish for years. I remember hundreds of tyres being dumped in the car park some years back and appealing to the then MP for Welwyn Hatfield, Melanie Johnson. That cost the Centre nearly £1000 to clear up.

It is heartening to know that the efforts of the community in collecting, sorting and selling jumble for its sales; the quiz nights that it runs and the other fund raising which should be used to improve and maintain the Centre and benefit the community instead goes on clearing up this rubbish  :-[.

The shear volume and frequency of fly tipping at the Centre has resulted in the past, generous assistance from amongst others, Welwyn Hatfield Council, The Parish Council, private companies and individuals who have given of their time to clearing up, but the volume of the rubbish fly tipped on the 'playing fields' and its location mean the costs for such removal will be very high. With the current financial climate, further 'free' assistance is unlikely, so the rubbish stays.

See within this thread replies 58 - 4.7.2006, 70 - 30.7.2008, 76 - 11.3.2009, 88 - 16.3.2009 & 179 - 12.11.2009 where I have previously posted about fly tipping at the Centre.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: chicken legs on April 15, 2012, 11:47:39 am
I walked across the football field this morning and the half-wits have dumped another two loads of rubbish there.  They could carry on until the whole field is covered with rubbish.

We have to enlist the help of our local authorities with this.  Would it be feasible to have a padlocked gate, or some of those poles which come up from the ground to stop vehicles entering?  The Parish Council have to have vehicular access to mow the football pitch.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 15, 2012, 12:39:31 pm
We have to enlist the help of our local authorities with this.  Would it be feasible to have a padlocked gate, or some of those poles which come up from the ground to stop vehicles entering?  The Parish Council have to have vehicular access to mow the football pitch.

Thanks for the picture Chicken Legs. This problem is in danger of getting out of hand. I wonder what can be done to prevent it? Nothing doesn't seem to be an option.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on April 15, 2012, 03:48:50 pm
We have to enlist the help of our local authorities with this.  Would it be feasible to have a padlocked gate, or some of those poles which come up from the ground to stop vehicles entering?  The Parish Council have to have vehicular access to mow the football pitch.

There used to be a padlocked gate there. It was destroyed by locals who wanted to get up there to ride their motorbikes across the fields and through the woods. North Mymms Youth Project also need vehicle access to that field during the summer months. Mobile CCTV may be a better option...

James
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on April 15, 2012, 04:49:27 pm
The gate was knocked down, and vandalised, but it couldn't be locked anyway. Network Rail require open access to this land as it is access to the railway. Also, as the field is used for sports, health and safety regulations require access for emergency vehicles. The Parish Council cut the grass and their grass cutters need access. Also under the field are pipelines, these also have to be accessed as do the overhead electricity pylons. I think the expression is we are 'snookered on all counts'!

Re CCTV, who would pay for this and who would monitor it? This private land leased to the Centre. Perhaps that is something the Council could do, as ultimately the land still belongs to them. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on April 15, 2012, 05:03:34 pm
Re CCTV, who would pay for this and who would monitor it? This private land leased to the Centre. Perhaps that is something the Council could do, as ultimately the land still belongs to them.

Other councils can manage it:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/03/06/wolverhampton-man-fined-after-being-caught-on-cctv-flytipping-in-cannock-97319-30466809/ (http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/03/06/wolverhampton-man-fined-after-being-caught-on-cctv-flytipping-in-cannock-97319-30466809/)

So could Welwyn Hatfield?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on April 15, 2012, 07:01:28 pm
Have messaged the chair of the Management Committee to see if this has been considered or requested. He will maybe update on this Forum any progress.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on April 16, 2012, 02:07:48 pm
The latest lot of rubbish is a garden shed, a water butt, a garden gate, and some cut down laurel bush. The builder must have demolished the shed on the Thursday, Friday or Saturday last week. Neighbours will have seen this happen.

Also possibly the contents of the shed, including garden furniture, a girl's bike, scooter, paddling pool, shoes etc etc. It is all easily identifiable to the person it belonged to. They may even have moved out, leaving these things in their old shed.

Again, I have some photos - sorry to clog up the thread. The problem is that the shed might have come from perhaps 10 miles away, and it is difficult to circulate the pictures to neighbours who might have seen it. These might include Hatfield, WGC, St Albans, Borehamwood, Barnet, Enfield, even Hertford.

With social media (which personally I don't understand at all!), could someone who knows about these things not publicise it more widely? With that hope, I am attaching some photos!

I would think that the police would be interested in the builder dumping the rubbish, not the owner of the rubbish, so I hope that fear of prosecution won't put off neighbours from reporting it.

(Well, I know it's a long shot, but you never know  ::) )
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 16, 2012, 07:28:55 pm
With social media (which personally I don't understand at all!), could someone who knows about these things not publicise it more widely? With that hope, I am attaching some photos!

Well done Susan. Have tweeted for you.



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: chicken legs on April 22, 2012, 10:58:31 am
The latest load tipped has been cleared apart from a few bricks, and the fence panels have been burnt on site.  Was this done by the Parish Council groundsmen, Bob? 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Peter Hastings on April 22, 2012, 10:06:58 pm
Most of the last pile was cleared or burnt by members of our management committee. The council own the freehold but we lease the land from them and past experience is they want nothing to do with the place.

We will discuss this problem at our next meeting. Clearing rubbish costs us money which we then have to raise. Since we aim to provide a subsidised facility for local users including the nursery school, this fly-tipping is totally negative all just costs us all money.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: chicken legs on April 23, 2012, 11:30:46 am
Well done to your committee members, Peter. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on November 18, 2012, 05:03:48 pm
I've just been for a walk down Bradmore Lane and there's so much rubbish along there - pots of paint, sacks of rubble etc etc.  It's right up to the bend, not just all in one place.

It wasn't there on Wednesday when I walked along there.
 >:D
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on November 18, 2012, 06:23:51 pm
You can report fly-tiping using this Welwyn Hatfield council link.
I usually find that reported rubbish is cleared within a week or two.

Here's the link:
http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 19, 2012, 08:58:21 am
I've just been for a walk down Bradmore Lane and there's so much rubbish along there - pots of paint, sacks of rubble etc etc.  It's right up to the bend, not just all in one place.

.It wasn't there on Wednesday when I walked along there
 >:D

Just been along Bradmore Lane, what a mess. I would like to suggest the use of snipers in
various known tipper habitats and cull those sectors of society that for the saving of the cost
of a small skip would rather disregard the environment and have someone else pay to clear
up their droppings. I suspect this would soon lead to a marked reduction in fly tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on November 19, 2012, 11:45:06 am
Unfortunately because of landfill tax a small skip is actually pretty expensive.

Last time I hired one it was approaching £200 - so whilst I would never condone such activities it's easy to see why it happens.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: WelhatCouncil on November 19, 2012, 04:53:44 pm
Please do make sure that you report fly tipping to the council. If you ever witness fly tipping happening, please call the police and supply as much information as you can of the incident. Full details are available on our website: http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079. (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079.)

Also, following the comments posted here, we liaised with the Hertfordshire County Council and the parish council. The county council installed bollards to prevent further fly tipping on a footpath and the tenants of the football pitches installed a height barrier to the car park. Therefore hopefully fly tipping will now not be an issue there, but still allow the public access to the footpath and field.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 19, 2012, 09:50:52 pm
Please do make sure that you report fly tipping to the council. If you ever witness fly tipping happening, please call the police and supply as much information as you can of the incident. Full details are available on our website: http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079. (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079.)

Please could you disclose to us how many fly-tippers have been successfully prosecuted by your WelHat Council or Police in the last 5 years for fly-tipping in the WelHat area?

You should have enough fingers on one hand to count them on.  :icon_jokercolor:

Shame on you for gross inactivity.  :icon_scratch:

TBH your posting on here statng for us to report these crimes (actually putting ourselves in real danger of reprisals if spotted by these ruthless  offenders)  for the rallying your so called actions after years and years of your non activity against fly tippers is IMO a complete joke.

Please repost on here in 12 months time to state how many convictions your WelHat Council has further enforced in 2013, IMO this will be less than a handfull (<5 to you)

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 19, 2012, 10:50:49 pm
Please do make sure that you report fly tipping to the council. If you ever witness fly tipping happening, please call the police and supply as much information as you can of the incident. Full details are available on our website: http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079. (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079.)

Also, following the comments posted here, we liaised with the Hertfordshire County Council and the parish council. The county council installed bollards to prevent further fly tipping on a footpath and the tenants of the football pitches installed a height barrier to the car park. Therefore hopefully fly tipping will now not be an issue there, but still allow the public access to the footpath and field.
Fly tipping takes place in GWR mainly on a Thursday, should be easy to spot and apprehend, as the perpetrators will leave the seen in a large noisy truck very slowly often fly tipping in several locations.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 20, 2012, 04:45:26 am
Also, following the comments posted here, we liaised with the Hertfordshire County Council and the parish council. The county council installed bollards to prevent further fly tipping on a footpath and the tenants of the football pitches installed a height barrier to the car park. Therefore hopefully fly tipping will now not be an issue there, but still allow the public access to the footpath and field.

Hi WelhatCouncil,

Welcome to the forum. It's encouraging to know you are monitoring the posts about fly tipping and taking action.  Thanks for the update. 

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on November 20, 2012, 01:58:11 pm
Rubbish cleared from Bradmore Lane this morning - Well done for speedy response Welhat Council!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: chicken legs on November 20, 2012, 04:47:30 pm
They may not be bothering to show an interest and post here after the immediate attacks they received.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on November 20, 2012, 06:00:30 pm
Chickenlegs makes a very valid point. Given the amount of fly-tipping that occurs I think the council, with increasingly limited resources, does a pretty good job in clearing up the mess. Fly-tipping will only be curbed when people report fly-tippers to the police, and stop employing unscrupulous builders, often on a cash-in-hand basis.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 20, 2012, 06:30:08 pm
Chickenlegs makes a very valid point. Given the amount of fly-tipping that occurs I think the council, with increasingly limited resources, does a pretty good job in clearing up the mess. Fly-tipping will only be curbed when people report fly-tippers to the police, and stop employing unscrupulous builders, often on a cash-in-hand basis.

I agree with Nobby. As someone who is out walking the local countryside twice each weekend I am often reporting fly tipping to WHC. I find the staff on the other end of the phone are really keen to get all the info and help. And I am amazed how fast they get it cleared up. It must be an unpleasant job at times - certainly not something I would want to do - but they get stuck in and do it. Nice to see so many on this forum supporting and praising their efforts.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 20, 2012, 08:44:08 pm
Chickenlegs makes a very valid point. Given the amount of fly-tipping that occurs I think the council, with increasingly limited resources, does a pretty good job in clearing up the mess. Fly-tipping will only be curbed when people report fly-tippers to the police, and stop employing unscrupulous builders, often on a cash-in-hand basis.

I agree with Nobby. As someone who is out walking the local countryside twice each weekend I am often reporting fly tipping to WHC. I find the staff on the other end of the phone are really keen to get all the info and help. And I am amazed how fast they get it cleared up. It must be an unpleasant job at times - certainly not something I would want to do - but they get stuck in and do it. Nice to see so many on this forum supporting and praising their efforts.
why should we be so grateful that they are doing a job for which they get paid for?

you only have to look at the letters in the local paper, week on week people are complaining about the rubbish that serco drop and refuse to pick up, is this acceptable behaviour then? should we not speak up and say what we see?

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Mermaid on November 20, 2012, 08:59:48 pm
You are confusing two issues. This thread is about flytipping and I agree with others that Welhat deals well with the problem. In my experience, when flytipping is reported to them they deal with it quickly and efficiently, and yes, I'm pleased about that.

You are trying to bring in the issue of Serco dropping litter, which is entirely different and nothing to do with flytipping. If you have a complaint about Serco, write to the council and complain.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on November 20, 2012, 10:04:15 pm
Also, following the comments posted here, we liaised with the Hertfordshire County Council and the parish council. The county council installed bollards to prevent further fly tipping on a footpath and the tenants of the football pitches installed a height barrier to the car park. Therefore hopefully fly tipping will now not be an issue there, but still allow the public access to the footpath and field.

Hi WelhatCouncil,

Welcome to the forum. It's encouraging to know you are monitoring the posts about fly tipping and taking action.  Thanks for the update. 

David

Actions and prosecutions would be far more welcome than a trite posting on a website.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Therock on November 20, 2012, 10:07:14 pm
I saw a big bag of Blue-bottles,dumped down the lane is that Fly Tipping????
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 20, 2012, 10:25:35 pm
You are confusing two issues. This thread is about flytipping and I agree with others that Welhat deals well with the problem. In my experience, when flytipping is reported to them they deal with it quickly and efficiently, and yes, I'm pleased about that.

You are trying to bring in the issue of Serco dropping litter, which is entirely different and nothing to do with flytipping. If you have a complaint about Serco, write to the council and complain.
Its exactly the same - please read WHC definition of fly tipping.

I have written to the council along with many others it seems and as i mentioned  in my earlier post. nothing changes i'm afraid only empty promises received.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 20, 2012, 10:28:42 pm
I saw a big bag of Blue-bottles,dumped down the lane is that Fly Tipping????
Not if it was dropped by serco apparently.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 21, 2012, 04:59:20 am
You are confusing two issues. This thread is about flytipping and I agree with others that Welhat deals well with the problem. In my experience, when flytipping is reported to them they deal with it quickly and efficiently, and yes, I'm pleased about that.

You are trying to bring in the issue of Serco dropping litter, which is entirely different and nothing to do with flytipping. If you have a complaint about Serco, write to the council and complain.

Hi Larry,

Mermaid is correct. As you know, there is a thread for discussions about the local refuse collection service (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,1538.msg31094.html#msg31094). It would be better if you addressed your issues with that service on that thread and leave this one for the discussion about fly tipping - otherwise it can get confusing.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 21, 2012, 08:13:56 am
You are confusing two issues. This thread is about flytipping and I agree with others that Welhat deals well with the problem. In my experience, when flytipping is reported to them they deal with it quickly and efficiently, and yes, I'm pleased about that.

You are trying to bring in the issue of Serco dropping litter, which is entirely different and nothing to do with flytipping. If you have a complaint about Serco, write to the council and complain.

Hi Larry,

Mermaid is correct. As you know, there is a thread for discussions about the local refuse collection service (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,1538.msg31094.html#msg31094). It would be better if you addressed your issues with that service on that thread and leave this one for the discussion about fly tipping - otherwise it can get confusing.

David
Incorrect.

please look at WHC definition of fly tipping. Section 33 environment protection act 1990

what is the difference between a member of the public depositing a bag of rubbish on the highway or a refuse collector? we are therefore discussing a refuse collector or collectors fly tipping. No confusion here!!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on November 21, 2012, 09:47:51 am
This link might be of use:

Welwyn Hatfield Council page about Fly Tipping (http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1079)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 21, 2012, 12:08:31 pm
what is the difference between a member of the public depositing a bag of rubbish on the highway or a refuse collector? we are therefore discussing a refuse collector or collectors fly tipping. No confusion here!!

The difference is that one is best discussed on the fly tipping thread and the other on the refuse collection thread - just to avoid confusion.

 ;)

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on November 21, 2012, 08:19:16 pm
Getting back to fly tipping... Good to see height barriers at the youth centre & bollards to stop unauthorised vehicles getting up to the field. They can be unlocked so emergency vehicles can access. Word of warning though, barriers to car park are painted black & of restricted width, take care if you are visiting the Centre after dark, take care not to hit them. Hope measures are successful in eliminating the huge amounts fly tipped there to date. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on December 24, 2012, 09:03:25 am
Beware the broken glass half way down (or up) Bradmore Lane that some moron has felt fit
to add to the already existing piles of tree cuttings and numerous plastic containers.
It has been reported. Happy Xmas!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 14, 2013, 07:41:16 am
Just read this on the BBC.

Quote
Tougher fly-tipping fines proposed
People responsible for repeatedly dumping waste should face larger fines, says the Sentencing Council for England and Wales. Official figures show that fly-tipping has been decreasing for five years, but local authorities in England and Wales still had to clean up almost 800,000 incidents last year at a cost of almost £40m.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21772530 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21772530)

Does anyone have any statistics on how many currently get caught and fined?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 14, 2013, 09:12:41 am
Just walked up Bradmore Lane after dropping the car at the garage and saw there has been some recent fly tipping. If you had a contractor move some cupboards, a brown leather sofa and a red pedal tractor it might be your stuff.  Seems the sign serves no purpose. And as Therock pointed out in another thread (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,3887.msg32122.html#msg32122), the ivy will probably pull it and the tree it's attached to down before too long.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march13/ft1.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march13/ft2.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/march13/ft3.jpg)



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 14, 2013, 09:17:32 am
I was very pleased with the appearance of Bradmore Lane recently after requesting Street Scene
to litter pick it as it obviously had not been done for years.
The image was short lived however with the appearance today of a sofa and the remains of a kitchen ironically deposited next to the no Fly Tipping sign. :(
I do not know how many prosecutions if any there have been although I seem to remember reading
that it was only one in ten years or so.
Until the local authority are more pro-active with cameras etc then this figure will remain depressingly
low.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 14, 2013, 09:32:25 am
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/thousands_of_fly_tips_in_welwyn_hatfield_no_prosecutions_1_1024091 (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/thousands_of_fly_tips_in_welwyn_hatfield_no_prosecutions_1_1024091)

This article in the WHT shows the total number of prosecutions for one year between 2010 & 2011
as zero!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 14, 2013, 09:45:52 am
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/thousands_of_fly_tips_in_welwyn_hatfield_no_prosecutions_1_1024091 (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/thousands_of_fly_tips_in_welwyn_hatfield_no_prosecutions_1_1024091)

This article in the WHT shows the total number of prosecutions for one year between 2010 & 2011
as zero!

So increasing the fines seems a waste of time then.   ::)

While taking the pictures above a tatty white transit with two blokes passed me three times. Either they were lost or ....
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 14, 2013, 02:54:57 pm
Whaddya mean tatty! It might be a bit dirty but certainly not tatty. This morning about 8.20 I was
driving up Bradmore Lane taking my son to the station and I saw a dodgy looking man and woman
standing by the verge, a short while later I was returning in my SILVER transit on my OWN and
saw the same dodgy looking man & woman nearer the top of the lane having passed them a total
of TWO times :) ;)

Rumbled. We were probably the dodgy looking couple - but the white transit was definitely white, not silver, so you are in the clear.

 :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 05, 2013, 08:13:44 pm
I came home from a trip this afternoon and was looking forward to a walk along the BOAT (byway open to all traffic) from Wild Hill to West End near Essendon. But it wasn't to be. Someone had blocked the byway by fly tipping a massive amount of rubbish. They must have had a large vehicle. Someone must have seen it. Here are some pics. If you recognise any of the items it could be that your builders took the wrong turn on the way to the tips.

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/april13/ft1.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/april13/ft2.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/april13/ft3.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/april13/ft4.jpg)

(http://www.brookmans.com/news/april13/ft5.jpg)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 05, 2013, 08:34:53 pm
In case anyone is interested, the WHC fly tipping report form is really easy to use.

http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN)

This incident has now been reported.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 14, 2013, 03:59:02 pm
Nasty load of fly tipping in the branch of Grubbs Lane leading to Wild Hill. Totally blocking the road. Have reported it.  They removed the other one, by the way.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 18, 2013, 03:45:10 pm
A large amount of rubbish has been dumped along the BOAT from Wild Hill to West End, Essendon. It's on the path just off to the right from the lane joining Wild Hill to West End. There is an avocado bathroom suite and some fencing and loads of black bin bags and other household waste. I have reported it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 24, 2013, 08:48:08 pm
The fly tippers have been at it again in the same place. It's the byway between Wild Hill and West End, Essendon. What a pity. I wonder if it's the same culprit because this is the fifth time I have reported fly tipping at this location and it's always about the same quantity of rubbish. Have reported to the council.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 27, 2013, 04:38:01 pm
Sad to see yet another load of fly tipping in exactly the same spot as three days ago. Reported to the council. There must be a pattern here that someone could investigate. Time for CCTV cameras?  Must be cheaper than repeated trips to clear up the rubbish.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on June 28, 2013, 03:29:06 pm
I just thought I’d update the dumped rubbish thread.

1) Bulls Lane April last year - the rubbish was dumped by builder from a house he was working on in Borehamwood. He was questioned under caution by the local council, assisted by the police. Unfortunately, he was unable to be prosecuted - caution issued in the wrong place.

2) Football pitch also April 2012 - shed and contents. The council sent the owners of rubbish a letter, and told to disclose who dumped the rubbish, or face a fine. They chose the fine of £80. They live in London Colney.

3) Football pitch June 2012 - the rubbish was dumped by a licensed waste carrier. As he was licensed, he came under the Environmental Protection Agency. They have a lot more experience of prosecutions, so this progressed smoothly. The licence holder was interviewed by the EPA. He claimed to have paid someone to dispose of the rubbish. That man was prosecuted, and found guilty this month. The rubbish came from a village in Bedfordshire.

There is info in the local paper about it. Here is the extract:
A man who dumped waste from caravan dismantling onto a football pitch near a Youth and Community Centre in Welham Green, Hertfordshire, has been ordered to carry out 100 hours’ unpaid work. Stephen Willis, 56, admitted fly-tipping at North Mymms Youth and Community Centre, Station Road, at Watford Magistrates’ Court on Friday (June 14). He was also ordered to pay £1,900 in court costs.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on July 04, 2013, 01:47:52 pm
Someone has dumped a number of large black bin bags into Mymmshall Brook by the bridge into the pumping station on Warrengate Road.   The council offices had closed yesterday when I spotted them and so I called the Environment Agency who told me that I needed to call the council this morning and if need be they will call the EA out.   I called the council this morning and have been told that they are not allowed to clear rubbish from the water?? but that I should contact North Mymms Parish Council who if need be will call the council back!! Talk about passing the buck.  What a joke ???   

I have left a message on NMPC answerphone.   If anyone knows the process regarding the collection of flytipped waste from rivers could you please let me know.  Thanks
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 04, 2013, 02:10:24 pm
Hi Peppermint, have you tried using this form?  http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN)  That usually works for me when I spot fly tipping in the countryside, although I have not had to report it from a river before.  I have reported it using the form and the information supplied. Confirmation message below.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 04, 2013, 02:20:56 pm
I've tweeted to see if it helps draw attention to the issue.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on July 04, 2013, 02:32:37 pm
Thanks David, I will try emailing them  :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 04, 2013, 05:02:28 pm
Hi Peppermint,

I have just had a call from a helpful lady at the council who confirmed that they can't deal with rubbish dumped in the river. Have you contacted the pumping station?

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on July 04, 2013, 06:33:01 pm
Someone has dumped a number of large black bin bags into Mymmshall Brook by the bridge into the pumping station on Warrengate Road.   The council offices had closed yesterday when I spotted them and so I called the Environment Agency who told me that I needed to call the council this morning and if need be they will call the EA out.   I called the council this morning and have been told that they are not allowed to clear rubbish from the water?? but that I should contact North Mymms Parish Council who if need be will call the council back!! Talk about passing the buck.  What a joke ???   

I have left a message on NMPC answerphone.   If anyone knows the process regarding the collection of flytipped waste from rivers could you please let me know.  Thanks

The EA are responsible for the rivers having taken over from the National Rivers Authority a number of years back. I have had numerous dealings with them over the years, attempting to have debris cleared from the Swallow Holes and Mimmshall Brook. I have always found them to be consistently
utterly useless in this regard.
I have had site meetings and even walked sections of the riverbed with them on several occaisons
but to no auail - "we have no funds, we have no funds" they cry.
How about I come along and lift them out and dump them on the roadside so the man from the council won't have to get his feet wet?.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on July 04, 2013, 08:35:39 pm
Hi David, The river isn't the responsibility of the pumping station, my understanding is that the Environment Agency are responsible for it .... Just not in this instance.  The lady I spoke to at the council this morning was also helpful without actually offering any help at all :icon_scratch:

Hi epiphany, I was surprised the EA didn't jump at the chance to spend a few hours parked on the bridge in the sunshine with their feet on the dashboard  :).  I will wait for a call from the Parish Council and ask them to call WHC who can then instruct the EA to clear the rubbish.

Watch this space.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 27, 2013, 09:20:42 pm
More fly tipping. Same place and, I would bet, same people. Down the BOAT between Wild Hill and West End. Clearing up is turning into a full time job for the council. I have reported.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on July 27, 2013, 10:15:11 pm
We saw that on Friday Night walking from the Woodman to the Candlesticks. Real Shame.

Someone had also chucked a leaking can of paint out onto the verge and the road was covered :-\

BP
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 02, 2013, 11:54:35 am
I am impressed with WHC's fly tipping report system. The stuff is usually cleared with a day or two.  Well worth using.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on August 18, 2013, 07:54:07 pm
Dreadful fly-tipping along Bradmore Lane at the usual spot. Two cheap sofas and builder's waste. If you recognise the sofas please grass up the previous owners. It has been reported to the council.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 11, 2013, 07:03:59 pm
Bad case of fly tipping on West End Lane, Wild Hill. Be careful. Pictures below.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on October 12, 2013, 09:48:42 pm
And another load of rubbish has been fly-tipped about 30 yards down Green Street at the top of that hill.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 13, 2013, 03:14:47 pm
And another load of rubbish has been fly-tipped about 30 yards down Green Street at the top of that hill.


Walked past it this afternoon. Some pictures in case someone is able to recognise the rubbish.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on October 13, 2013, 06:32:32 pm
Where is Green Street?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on October 14, 2013, 07:15:50 pm
Green Street runs along the southern edge of Hatfield Park and to the north of Woodside Farm- it's a muddy track rather than a street. It's quite a nice walk, if there aren't motor-cyclists tearing up and down.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 22, 2014, 10:02:30 pm
Sad to see more fly tipping about a quarter of a mile down public byway 14 from West End Lane towards Essendon.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 26, 2014, 06:54:34 pm
Just come across one of the worse cases of fly tipping I have seen. We were taking an early evening walk down the BOAT from West End Lane to Essendon and came across this...

My theory is that it's the same person doing the fly tipping, because the dumps are so regular and there are never more than one. I think it's a local contractor working in the area who knows this spot and uses it frequently. If anyone has recently had work done and recognises any of this as being their rubbish it might be worth talking WHC.  I have reported the incident and sent the council a link to this thread.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 26, 2014, 07:05:12 pm
I have tweeted to try to draw attention to this fly tipping blackspot.



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on March 26, 2014, 07:55:53 pm
IMO all goods/contractors vehicles should be "Smart Watered" or similar as standard ....then these culprits would be easily traceable.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on March 27, 2014, 09:24:09 am
This kind of thing is too easy to get away with, almost impossible to enforce and even then the penalties are pathetic, even for multiple repeat offenders. I hate giving in, I would prefer the council just took the waste for a reasonable fee from anyone. I'm sure given the clear-up costs, the damage to the countryside and risk of pollution it is a better idea.

If you're going to have to suffer the cost and difficulty of picking it up from the countryside (and it can never be a perfect job) you may as well have it delivered to you :(

As regards someone recognising the waste - I believe it's still your responsibility even if someone else fly-tips it!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 27, 2014, 01:00:48 pm
I think the public should always ask contractors what they intend to do with stuff they take away. Ask them in detail. Get the name, address and phone number of the depot they say they will be using - or the sub-contractor they say they are going to use. If they can't give it to you, don't hire them. Over the years we have had a number of door-to-door so-called 'tree surgeons' offering to prune and clear the garden. If you ask them those questions most go away. Also, and I  know this is not a guarantee, but if they have invested in large, industrial-size shredders which reduce all the shrubs and branches to small chippings - and if they are fully kitted out with protective clothing, they might be genuine.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 27, 2014, 04:50:22 pm
GOOD NEWS

Someone from Potters Bar just called to say that he recognised the material in the pictures (above) as coming from the garden of a house being extended. The man, who didn't want to give his name, has a description of the vehicle that has been removing the material and the address of the property. He is now calling Welwyn Hatfield Council to report the details.

So please, if you see fly-tipping, take a picture and post it in this forum - it just might help catch those who are doing this. Have tweeted.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on March 27, 2014, 04:55:38 pm
Wow, that's impressive! Just drove by there this afternoon and glancing up the byway can see the pile is still there. There was a pile of earth at the entrance to it which prevented vehicles going down there but I noticed it had gone last week when driving by as a couple of 4x4's seemed to be going down there to off-road and cut some deep ruts in the path :(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 27, 2014, 05:00:58 pm
The Welwyn Hatfield Times has just asked whether they can use the pictures. Of course I said yes.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 30, 2014, 07:57:44 pm
More fly-tipping, this time at the North Mymms Youth and Community Centre (http://www.nmycc.org.uk) car park.
And again, I guess, precious community funds will have to be used to remove it.  Reported.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 31, 2014, 07:02:46 am
Yes, over the years thousands of pounds have been spent on this sort of clear up. That's thousands not spent on The Centre. Despite height restricting barriers these individuals who consider it ok to blight the countryside and villages continue with no concern to the effect on others. The volunteers who run the centre are sick to death of this. Hours of fund raising, jumble sales, quiz nights, hire fees, etc going towards this. Personally, having just given hours of my time organising the recent quiz night & donating prizes and thousands of hours of my time over the years, this just makes me physically sick. Please, if anyone recognises items here, let the Police know. I would love to confront the idiots who do this face to face & tell them. I just know it won't happen, they'll just carry on regardless.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 31, 2014, 09:06:14 am
The volunteers who run the centre are sick to death of this. Hours of fund raising, jumble sales, quiz nights, hire fees, etc going towards this. Personally, having just given hours of my time organising the recent quiz night & donating prizes and thousands of hours of my time over the years, this just makes me physically sick.

What was noticeable was the contrast between the wonderful work that has been going on landscaping the community centre to create an environmentally pleasant place, and a few yards away the total disregard to the environment shown by the fly-tippers. The first takes days of labour and love (as pictured below - taken just yards from the fly-tipping yesterday) and the other takes seconds of deliberate destruction.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 31, 2014, 10:16:17 am
Yes Dave, that is thanks to local people doing their bit for their community. It does look lovely what has been done. What does annoy me is the people that 'employ' these 'traders' who go around dumping. The 'customer' saves a few quid to get this 'waste' collected by illegal operatives, who are un-licensed to carry waste and the whole community picks up the 'savings' in these disgraceful acts. Come on Police, VOSA, local councils and the general public, shop these rats and catch them. Then meaningful and proper fines & penalties. Impound their vehicles, they are being used illegally. Hit the perpetrators where it hurts. And, the rest of us, stop using them.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Angel on March 31, 2014, 01:33:36 pm
Wouldn't it be worth having CCTV at the community centre?  I'm not sure of the cost but may be cheaper than paying someone to clear up.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on March 31, 2014, 08:28:21 pm
cctv would just be vandalised or stolen. The security & car park lighting has recently been smashed to pieces as it is & cameras would need to be pretty expensive and they would need to cover a wide area in high definition day & night. There used to be signs up that there were cctv cameras, the windows where the signs were ended up smashed, presumably the individuals doing it thought it would give them street cred with their bricks & hoodies & 'caught on camera'.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 16, 2014, 04:05:52 pm
If you are getting any tree surgery or other pruning done by door-to-door contractors, ask them where they will be disposing of the stuff. I did a few weeks ago and the guy became tongue-tied and legged it. If they can't give you an answer, and if they don't have a shredder, it's likely that your garden waste will end up dumped, as is clearly the case on Essendon Public Byway 014 west of  West End Lane today. So many large branches that it's hard to get past. Horses wouldn't be able to get round it, and anyone using the BOAT (byway open to all traffic) in a vehicle or bike would be blocked, too. Have reported it on the WHC's fly tipping reporting site (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN).
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 19, 2014, 07:54:22 am
Thanks to Welwyn Hatfield Council for clearing the fly tipping on Essendon Public Byway 014. We walked it two days after reporting the latest dump and it had been cleared. (Picture taken on 16 July before we reported it).
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on July 19, 2014, 01:30:18 pm

Herts County Council are proposing to reduce the opening hours and also reduce the number of open days
from seven to five of all their Household Waste Recycling Centres ( tip or dump to you and  me).


They are currently consulting online -


https://consult.hertsdirect.org/hwrcconsultation2014/


I would urge you all to comment on this as I believe these changes will inevitably lead to more fly tipping.


The consultation ends on August 3rd.


The comments that I made regarding fly tipping are below -


I am concerned about the proposed clamp down on commercial vehicles.
I fear this will lead to increased fly tipping.
A large percentage of fly tipping is garden waste - tree cuttings etc.
Why does HCC not actively encourage rather than discourage the disposal of this green 'commercial waste' at its recycling centres, this material is actually composted and generates income.
Where is the logic in actually paying for a team to attend and clear green waste fly tipping sites?
In addition I think that to reduce the opening days and hours of the sites is a backward step in an age where recycling should be encouraged as much as possible.
It will inevitably result in more waste going to landfill.
I also believe that these proposals will lead to an increase fly tipping - I note that your data refuting this mainly includes statistics on site closures - not reductions in opening days and times and does not include statistics on the effects of deterring
commercial vehicles.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 05, 2014, 01:33:06 pm
Massive amount of domestic fly tipping on Essendon Public Byway 014 off West End Lane, Wildhill. We have just walked the area and was amazed at the amount of rubbish that has been dumped. WHC is aware, and there is an optimistic sticker warning those who dumped it that they "must remove it immediately' - fat chance.  ::)  Anyway, I have reported it again because, according to horse riders we met it's been there for two weeks. 

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 06, 2014, 02:35:07 pm

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on October 18, 2014, 12:39:05 pm
Fly tipping down Bradmore Lane. Reported to WHC.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 06, 2014, 07:13:24 pm

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 22, 2014, 04:11:30 pm
Please be careful when driving down the narrow West End Lane between Essendon and West End. It looks as though somebody has been throwing household waste from a vehicle, with mattresses, carpets and other items scattered over half a mile of lane. Most of it is in the hedgerow and bushes but some could slip and it could be dangerous after dark. I have reported it using the Welwyn Hatfield fly-tipping report form (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN).
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 13, 2014, 05:36:13 pm
Two months after reporting a large amount of fly tipping (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,1062.msg36284.html#msg36284) down the byway (Boat) between Wildhill and Essendon, the rubbish is still there. Disappointing. I have reported it again.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on December 19, 2014, 01:53:42 pm
I am impressed with Welwyn Hatfield's environment team. Just had a call explaining that the reason the fly tipping (above) wasn't dealt with promptly is that it's on private land. The land owner has been notified.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 08, 2015, 01:43:18 pm
More fly tipping at the entrance/exit to the BOAT where it crosses West End Lane at Wildhill.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on April 08, 2015, 01:45:59 pm
Similar quantity dumped yesterday in Bradmore Lane as well :(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on April 08, 2015, 01:51:36 pm
Similar quantity dumped yesterday in Bradmore Lane as well :(

If you haven't done so already you can report it using the Welwyn Hatfield online report form. I have just reported the two dumps I saw yesterday. They usually act quickly.

http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?formid=FLYTIP_LAGAN)

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 03, 2015, 03:06:01 pm
I see more evidence of the council putting signs/posters around fly-tipping prior to it being collected. Two examples close together on West End Lane, Wildhill today.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 03, 2015, 03:08:43 pm
And for those who want to be reminded about how beautiful our local countryside is without fly-tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: hilarycarlen on May 06, 2015, 09:33:13 pm
If someone would be kind enough to provide a chipper, all that dumped wood would make excellent woodchip, which I would really find useful to consolidate the paths at the youth and community centre....


Dirt is only matter out of place.



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on May 08, 2015, 09:06:27 pm
TBH - until punishments of up to 5 years jail is imposed and enforced with vigour for this offence then we'll just have to live with it.


A change in the law is needed.

It's a pity they don't dump their waste on our local politician's doorsteps, then we'd see some action.



Edited:  to correct coding
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: hilarycarlen on May 09, 2015, 06:46:31 pm
I would prefer to see large fines and community service - (not least and not only because it costs £40K per year to keep someone in prison and I  would much rather the criminals were paying the state than the state paying for them...).


And just think of the synergies achieved by community service!  We could get them to spend days clearing the countryside, making my woodchips out of dumped christmas trees, spreading them on the paths at the community centre, and then once they were really exhausted we could make them put all the really nasty stuff that's left over into wheelbarrows, and take it round to leave on the doorstep of the Local Politician.  (I wasn't quite clear how that was going to help the dumping issue, but I still very much liked the idea.  That's another matter though...)


Aah, I dream.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Betty Boop on May 19, 2015, 12:57:17 am
Does anyone know why Bradmore Lane was closed Monday morning, and is it all open as normal now?

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on May 20, 2015, 04:48:13 pm
Someone dumped a whole load of tree cuttings in the lane so no car could pass either way. I reported the obstruction early-on to Hatfield Police as WelHat Council were unavailable. Dumpers, don't you just love them?, and they then wonder why most of us in general hate them.


Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 20, 2015, 04:56:35 pm
There was a great piece in the Welwyn Hatfield times last week about fly tipping from a resident in Wild Hill in the letters section, telling it as it is.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Betty Boop on May 20, 2015, 07:03:44 pm
The other day there was massive duvet dumped in the road. What is wrong with people.

Thanks for letting me know
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 20, 2015, 07:09:51 pm
Perhaps there were some sleeping policemen under cover. :)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on May 20, 2015, 10:42:20 pm
There was a great piece in the Welwyn Hatfield times last week about fly tipping from a resident in Wild Hill in the letters section, telling it as it is.
My post before being edited  by Admin told it as it is. 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 21, 2015, 07:07:09 pm
I have created a Google Map pinpointing local fly-tipping hotspots. It would be good to keep updating this with the latest incidents. Just zoom in, click on one of the markers and you will see images, text and links to the relevant forum post where the incident was reported. If any forum members see any piles of fly-tipping in the local countryside please take a picture and upload it in a new post to this thread. I will then add it to the map.  Note: Please don't put yourself at risk if you see people fly-tipping, and please do not upload any images that have any identifying elements such as vehicle number plates etc; they should be forwarded to the relevant authorities who deal with such crimes.



We walk a lot in the local countryside as those who have followed our 52 local walks (http://www.brookmans.com/walks/) will know. And it seems that the problem of fly-tipping appears to be in clusters. I have also noticed a similarity in the types of rubbish continually dumped in certain locations. Some seem to be favourites for those getting rid of builders’ rubbish, while others seem to be preferred by those dumping garden waste. This suggests to me, although it’s only a guess, that it could be that the same culprits returning to their favoured spot.

Each time I report fly-tipping using the local authority’s online service (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/BrowserCheck), the council seems to respond fairly quickly. If the fly-tipping is on public land, they remove it within days. If it is on private land - for example blocking a field or just off a footpath and in woodland - they don’t remove it. Where public land is cleared the fly-tippers return.

It seems to me that if we can help identify the fly-tipping black-spots and send the council evidence using the map, complete with images and links to the reports on this forum, we might be able to help those tasked with dealing with this issue. Perhaps they would consider putting CTV cameras at these fly-tipping black-spots.

By the way, I have merged the Bradmore Lane closed thread with this in case anyone was looking for it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 21, 2015, 09:14:00 pm
I have created a Google Map pinpointing local fly-tipping hotspots. It would be good to keep updating this with the latest incidents. Just zoom in, click on one of the markers and you will see images, text and links to the relevant forum post where the incident was reported. If any forum members see any piles of fly-tipping in the local countryside please take a picture and upload it in a new post to this thread. I will then add it to the map.  Note: Please don't put yourself at risk if you see people fly-tipping, and please do not upload any images that have any identifying elements such as vehicle number plates etc; they should be forwarded to the relevant authorities who deal with such crimes.



We walk a lot in the local countryside as those who have followed our 52 local walks (http://www.brookmans.com/walks/) will know. And it seems that the problem of fly-tipping appears to be in clusters. I have also noticed a similarity in the types of rubbish continually dumped in certain locations. Some seem to be favourites for those getting rid of builders’ rubbish, while others seem to be preferred by those dumping garden waste. This suggests to me, although it’s only a guess, that it could be that the same culprits returning to their favoured spot.

Each time I report fly-tipping using the local authority’s online service (http://whcservices.welhat.gov.uk/ufs/BrowserCheck), the council seems to respond fairly quickly. If the fly-tipping is on public land, they remove it within days. If it is on private land - for example blocking a field or just off a footpath and in woodland - they don’t remove it. Where public land is cleared the fly-tippers return.

It seems to me that if we can help identify the fly-tipping black-spots and send the council evidence using the map, complete with images and links to the reports on this forum, we might be able to help those tasked with dealing with this issue. Perhaps they would consider putting CTV cameras at these fly-tipping black-spots.

By the way, I have merged the Bradmore Lane closed thread with this in case anyone was looking for it.
Waste of time - the authorities know who is responsible.

[Note: Edited to fix embedded map]
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 21, 2015, 09:35:00 pm
Waste of time - the authorities know who is responsible.

Humour me, Larry.

 ;)

Next time you are out and about and see some fly-tipping in our area please take a pic, upload it to this thread, add a few words saying where it is, and I will add it to the map. I have gone through this entire thread back to the first picture uploaded in 2003 and added all images and links to threads to that map, if nothing else it serves as a record of the incidents that we have photographed and reported here on the forum. I am sure they are only a fraction of the total amount of fly-tipping incidents.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on May 21, 2015, 09:38:58 pm
Nice idea :)  , but if the local authority wanted to know the whereabouts of the fly-tipping black-spots, all they have to do is just ask the guys from Serco who do the clearing up!! Perhaps that would just be too simple..........
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 21, 2015, 09:43:23 pm
Nice idea :)  , but if the local authority wanted to know the whereabouts of the fly-tipping black-spots, all they have to do is just ask the guys from Serco who do the clearing up!! Perhaps that would just be too simple..........

But it will serve another purpose.

Bill McCaskie popped round this evening for a cuppa. I told him about it. He often sees trucks with rubbish on. He takes a look at the content and tries to identify something memorable - a child's bike, a brown sofa etc. He jots the vehicle's number down. Then, if he sees some fly-tipping with those items in it he can ask a few questions.

If we upload pictures to the forum with a description of where they were found we might just help with the putting together of pieces in that jigsaw. And the map serves as a way of keeping a recording of all recorded incidents in one place.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 21, 2015, 11:03:32 pm
Waste of time - the authorities know who is responsible.

Humour me, Larry.

 ;)

Next time you are out and about and see some fly-tipping in our area please take a pic, upload it to this thread, add a few words saying where it is, and I will add it to the map. I have gone through this entire thread back to the first picture uploaded in 2003 and added all images and links to threads to that map, if nothing else it serves as a record of the incidents that we have photographed and reported here on the forum. I am sure they are only a fraction of the total amount of fly-tipping incidents.
No problem David, and if I actually capture the perpetrators and vehicle in the act should I upload?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 22, 2015, 07:27:37 am
No problem David, and if I actually capture the perpetrators and vehicle in the act should I upload?

Hi Larry,

If you have a picture of what appears to be fly-tipping taking place it would be best to forward it to the police as possible evidence of criminal activity.

If you are taking a picture of a pile of fly-tipping in order to upload to the site and a vehicle is nearby, you would need to remove/blur any distinguishing features/marks such as vehicle number plate, company branding, faces etc, with a photo-editing software.

We had an incident a few years ago where a forum member took a picture of what he thought was fly-tipping in Bulls Lane only to find that the picture he had taken was of a driver taking a rest at a spot where, earlier, fly-tipping had taken place.

Also, I would be very careful taking pictures of someone who is clearly fly-tipping; I am guessing they might turn nasty if they see you gathering photographic evidence.

If you do think you have witnessed a crime it's probably best to contact Bill McCaskie the local community police officer. His email link is on his forum profile on the site.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on May 22, 2015, 09:19:53 am
I think the solution is to look at the rubbish to identify where it has come from. The police have said that identifying material is almost never left. However, in my experience that isn't the case – see my post in June 2013. I investigated four local dumpings, and found the owners in three cases. (However, frustratingly only one case led to a prosecution!)

I agree that the hotspots are probably used by just one or two people. Maybe someone could sift through the rubbish carefully each time? This is an unsavoury job, but it probably wouldn't take long to identify the perpetrators.

Obviously, that person should be the police. However, in my experience, they just don't do it. I guess it takes a long time to search the rubbish and then trace the owners, so it has a low priority.

PS I've no idea what Bill means about looking at rubbish in transit - a pr statement if ever I've heard one.  :)  That's going about it totally the wrong way round! Most lorries are heading for the tip. Just start at the dumped rubbish and head backwards!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on May 22, 2015, 09:53:12 am
I think the solution is to look at the rubbish to identify where it has come from. The police have said that identifying material is almost never left. However, in my experience that isn't the case – see my post in June 2013. I investigated four local dumpings, and found the owners in three cases. (However, frustratingly only one case led to a prosecution!)

I agree that the hotspots are probably used by just one or two people. Maybe someone could sift through the rubbish carefully each time? This is an unsavoury job, but it probably wouldn't take long to identify the perpetrators.

Obviously, that person should be the police. However, in my experience, they just don't do it. I guess it takes a long time to search the rubbish and then trace the owners, so it has a low priority.

PS I've no idea what Bill means about looking at rubbish in transit - a pr statement if ever I've heard one.  :)  That's going about it totally the wrong way round! Most lorries are heading for the tip. Just start at the dumped rubbish and head backwards!

I had a quick chat with some Serco guys clearing fly-tipping in Bradmore Lane recently and I was impressed to hear that they do check the rubbish for possible ID whilst clearing.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on May 22, 2015, 10:05:21 am
Well, they would say that! Did you ask them whether they ever find anything?  :)   In my experience, you need to spend a long time checking, and they never have the time.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 22, 2015, 06:54:20 pm
David,
 
With the greatest of respect you are showing huge naivety in this instance.
 
There are a group within our community who will be responsible in the main, for the flytipping in subject.
 
Bill is a great asset to have in our community who im pleased to see in and around the village, but whether we like it or not there is a unwritten rule amongst senior officers that certain groups should be left well alone, and if the odd bit of fly tipping is the consequence then so be it as far as they are concerned. The police simply dont have the numbers or the resources to tackle this crime, it has been that way for many a year and is not likely to improve anytime soon.
 
The flytipping clearances will be budgeted for at the begining of each FY, thats how it is dealt with. Im not going to knock you for what you are doing as its your time and resources, but if you think recording the instances as you have will make any difference then im afraid you are also wasting your time.
 
Unless Bill becomes borough commander anytime soon, we should get used to the status quo.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on May 22, 2015, 07:18:54 pm
It's nothing to do with "certain groups should be left well alone". It is simply that the rubbish isn't gone through to find addresses, because it's not cost effective for the police, and is not a pleasant job. Serco certainly don't have time to slowly go through each piece of paper for possible clues.  :)

Even if the police find an address, it is not proof that the person dumped the rubbish. The rubbish owner has to confirm it is theirs, confirm they passed it to someone else, and then that final person can be interviewed.

In practice, I've found that the rubbish owner is often prepared to stand up in court, because they are not happy that their rubbish has been dumped, and have parted with it in good faith - certainly in at least one instance they've given it to a controlled waste carrier! However, it is time consuming to trace the rubbish owner.

David's map is interesting. It suggests to me that there are probably very few people dumping rubbish, and if someone goes through the rubbish for evidence, the Wildhill dumpings, for example, could perhaps be stopped.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 22, 2015, 07:48:41 pm
Im not going to knock you for what you are doing as its your time and resources, but if you think recording the instances as you have will make any difference then im afraid you are also wasting your time.
 
Unless Bill becomes borough commander anytime soon, we should get used to the status quo.

Perhaps, but posting pictures of fly-tipping in this thread has resulted in someone recognising the rubbish as having been collected from a neighbour's house (http://www.brookmans.com/forum/index.php/topic,221.msg35011.html#msg35011) which prompted them to report it to the local authority. I still think it's worth those of us who see evidence of fly-tipping sharing that information on the forum just in case others recognise the rubbish and can help track those responsible.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on May 22, 2015, 08:58:30 pm
It's nothing to do with "certain groups should be left well alone". It is simply that the rubbish isn't gone through to find addresses, because it's not cost effective for the police, and is not a pleasant job. Serco certainly don't have time to slowly go through each piece of paper for possible clues.  :)

Even if the police find an address, it is not proof that the person dumped the rubbish. The rubbish owner has to confirm it is theirs, confirm they passed it to someone else, and then that final person can be interviewed.

In practice, I've found that the rubbish owner is often prepared to stand up in court, because they are not happy that their rubbish has been dumped, and have parted with it in good faith - certainly in at least one instance they've given it to a controlled waste carrier! However, it is time consuming to trace the rubbish owner.

David's map is interesting. It suggests to me that there are probably very few people dumping rubbish, and if someone goes through the rubbish for evidence, the Wildhill dumpings, for example, could perhaps be stopped.
Susan - of course I dont know what your background or profession is, nor do I know what you base your opinions on. I can tell you however that I spend a not inconsiderate amount of my professional life dealing with the issues of this subject, so my experiences and therefore opinions differ from yours. There is a specific MO that is used by some offenders, that guarantees they wont be caught.

More often than not the fly tipping will consist of garden waste or builders rubbish, which is hard to link to individuals, accept it or not this is now classed more than ever as a low level crime and resources thin on the ground.

If the police cant be relied upon to attend an intruder alarm sounding at a bank holding millions......
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 23, 2015, 07:46:52 am
The police simply dont have the numbers or the resources to tackle this crime, it has been that way for many a year and is not likely to improve anytime soon.

Perhaps, but last year there were 1,685 fines handed out nationally for fly-tipping, 19 people were ordered to carry out community service, and there were 10 custodial sentences. So people are being caught.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on May 23, 2015, 09:58:06 am
But there are more than 10,000 parishes in the UK, so if we multiply our tipping by that figure, that's a huge number of offences countrywide. Percentage wise, almost none are caught. Those that are may not even be caught by the police, but by residents. In fact, based on those figures, I was responsible for over 5% of UK prosecutions that resulted in community service in 2013 - from just one prosecution!   ;)

Larry - I was saying that it's nothing to do with targeting certain groups, but with leg work in going through the litter. I traced one pile of rubbish back to a policeman (not of this parish!) who hadn't checked up on what was happening to his waste - and that prosecution of the waste carrier was not possible due to a misplaced caution!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 23, 2015, 03:42:40 pm
Percentage wise, almost none are caught.

I realise that, but I am guessing that not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to get out and walk the lovely byways around here, or, perhaps, don't have the need to drive down our quiet country lanes. So they might not get the chance to see the fly-tipping. By uploading images and sharing them on the forum we are, at least, helping to show the extent of the problem.

Larry and others might be right; it might be a waste of time. But it isn't a lot of work, and I am happy to do it.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on May 23, 2015, 04:24:08 pm
I'm all for uploading the images. I've done it too.

My point is that the only way to stop it is for someone to go through the rubbish and trace the perpetrators. This is often perfectly possible. However, the authorities (whatever lip service they give!) do not do this because, as Larry says, they don't have time/inclination. Therefore, this problem won't be solved, and we all continue to moan about it.

If the authorities don't do anything, who will? I personally avoid dumped rubbish now, because even after tracing the culprit, it's still an uphill struggle to get anything done about it. However, I still think it's worth going through the Wildhill stuff with a fine-tooth comb, and eventually one load will yield a clue. We just need some volunteers now.  :)

PS I can't believe how invested I am in this rubbish thread! But it is just so annoying to see this mess everywhere.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 27, 2015, 05:58:10 pm
If anyone knows an Alec or Alex Clarke who studies or studied at the University of Hertfordshire School of Engineering and Technology, his coursework has been dumped in the small lane that connects Woodside Lane and Wildhill Road. Not sure if it’s valuable or not, but it looks like a recent dump and the books have not been damaged by rain yet. (Still not sure what the council hopes to achieve with the red posters that it plasters over fly tipping.)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 28, 2015, 07:20:10 am
Someone who saw this post on our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/brookmanspark/posts/929093940488012) has identified a possible owner of the coursework. It's now plotted on a map so that it can be found. It's the second marker on Woodside Lane.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on June 28, 2015, 05:00:50 pm
I know I said I'd avoid dumped rubbish in future, but I did drive out and have a look at this this afternoon. As usual, it had an address, and I popped round. Here is my summary...

The rubbish comes from a student house in Shawcross Cres, Hatfield. The students are sitting their finals at the moment, and will move out at the end of term. Therefore, they have recently cleared out all their rubbish. As they don't have a car, a man offered to take it to the tip for them in his car, if they gave him £20. The student I spoke to claims he doesn't know the man, but he said he will ask another student, who was out at the time, as he may have contact details.

The student I spoke to was surprised that it had been dumped, particularly as it was full of identifying details. He said he will see it gets removed, if I tell him where it is. (I couldn't describe it, so said I'd email.)

Alex Clarke is a red herring. He doesn't live there, but perhaps he was a student there the previous year, and left behind his logbook.

(Still not sure what the council hopes to achieve with the red posters that it plasters over fly tipping.)
PR  ::) 
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 28, 2015, 06:59:56 pm
I know I said I'd avoid dumped rubbish in future, but I did drive out and have a look at this this afternoon. As usual, it had an address, and I popped round.

I had a feeling that you'd find it hard to resist having a rummage, Susan.  The council should considering hiring you as a fly-tipping detective. ;)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on June 28, 2015, 10:26:19 pm
Yes, I had to laugh at the ridiculous orange notice saying it was being investigated by the council!  ???  It doesn't need a detective, when the dumpers just leave the names and addresses just about every time.

Anyway, I've emailed details of where the rubbish is to the student, who has apologised again, and said they intend to go back to remove the rubbish tomorrow morning. He also said they would try and find the man they gave the £20 to, so we might yet find out who he is. We'll see, but I don't have much hope on that score.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 04, 2015, 01:54:20 pm
Sad to see two large industrial bags of rubbish dumped at the Tesco Oxfam clothing bank in Potters Bar. It didn't help that the clothing bins were full to overflowing and people had left clothing in bags around the containers. But someone had dumped two white bags of smelly rubbish in the mix.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on July 12, 2015, 08:22:07 am
The Youth and Community Centre in Station Road has to pay over £1000 a year to have its waste removed as it is not a 'domestic' address. However, some individuals still think they can dump their surplus rubbish in the Centre's bin. Often on the same day that Serco have emptied it, it is full again. If the bin is full, further bags are then just dumped beside it.

Consequently, users of the Centre then have nowhere to dispose of their rubbish. It may be because Welwyn Hatfield Council do have a recycling centre on the driveway up to the Centre, so some people may think the rubbish bin in the Centre's car park is for everyone to use. It isn't. It has been clearly marked up to show that this bin is for Centre use only.

So, if you visit the North Mymms recycling centre please don't use the Centre's bin for your rubbish or dump it on their land!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Webman on July 27, 2015, 05:00:27 pm
Does anyone recognize this executive seat? Or maybe the staging from a greenhouse? Maybe you've remember the cold-frame before it was torn away from its roots? This lot was found strewn over Bradmore Lane this morning. Somebody must be missing them by now.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on July 27, 2015, 08:19:52 pm
Does anyone recognize this executive seat? Or maybe the staging from a greenhouse? Maybe you've remember the cold-frame before it was torn away from its roots? This lot was found strewn over Bradmore Lane this morning. Somebody must be missing them by now.
This rubbish will be from further afield, thus ensuring that someone else, other than the dumper, takes the blame.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: BrookyP on July 28, 2015, 06:14:22 pm
lot of aluminium there-strange to see that getting dumped. its worth about £400-600 a tonne last time i looked. Which was ages ago!!


BP
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on July 30, 2015, 07:24:48 pm
£2 or £3 quids worth, not worth running in if it's not kosher..
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: pinchefalise on July 31, 2015, 08:23:49 am
I walked down the lane early afternoon yesterday. the only sign of all that rubbish was broken glass around the tree trunk.
Full marks to whoever took it all away.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Bedlam on August 03, 2015, 08:44:28 pm
I saw the WelHat Council guys removing the rubbish today
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 04, 2015, 12:01:10 pm
A new spot for the fly-tippers; this time along the cycle path at the junction of Warrengate Road and Swanland Road.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on September 08, 2015, 01:40:51 pm
Another load on Bradmore way!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 08, 2015, 01:49:53 pm
At least 10 bags of tiles and other rubble dumped in the road and hedgerow along West End Lane just up the hill from Wildhill. Seems the rubbish has been thrown as a vehicle has driven along the road because each bag is dumped at equal intervals, some deep in the hedgerow. Will take a fair amount of effort to clear. Was going to report it on the Welwyn Hatfield site but it's down at the moment so I have tweeted and embedded the tweet below instead. 

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 11, 2015, 02:28:59 pm
Just been walking along West End Lane, Wildhill and the fly tipping is still there. Took a closer look at the broken bags and I wonder whether there is asbestos involved? I don't know about these things, but here is a picture. Will tweet the council to urge them to check.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on November 13, 2015, 09:30:26 pm
Reported that on the 9th and was told it had already been reported and was in hand.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 14, 2015, 07:52:23 am
Reported that on the 9th and was told it had already been reported and was in hand.

Thanks, I reported it on the 8th. Hopefully it will have been cleared by now.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on November 15, 2015, 05:50:17 pm
It was still there this morning (Sunday 15th) - bags and bags of it!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 15, 2016, 01:00:42 pm
Two months after telling @WelHatCouncil (https://twitter.com/WelHatCounci) about fly tipping on West End Lane and it's still not been removed.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 16, 2016, 06:37:16 pm
Need a freezer cabinet? One has been dumped along West End Lane, Wildhill.  ::)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on January 18, 2016, 10:12:22 pm
This evening at 7.45 pm as I drove towards brookmans park on hawkshead lane a yellow tipper truck pulled out in front of me from the field entrance just beyond the vet college farm.   It still had its tipper raised and had just dumped a load of soil.

I followed it into the village, it was driving at 55 mph with its tipper still raised.   It turned into the travellers site on Bulls Lane.   I got its number plate and I will be contacting the council in the morning.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on January 18, 2016, 10:38:24 pm
Well done, Peppermint. The police should be interested as well.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 20, 2016, 09:53:17 am
@WelHatCouncil (https://twitter.com/WelHatCouncil) responded to my tweet and invited me to call to discuss. I've just spoken to a woman in the relevant department. She explained that the rubble was logged as having been picked up, however I pointed out that there were several dumps spread over a fair distance along West End Lane. Perhaps they just picked up one. I told her that it looks like someone has driven along while another person was chucking the bags out of the back of a vehicle.  Some are buried in the hedgerow. She said they would go back and take a closer look along the route.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on January 20, 2016, 10:34:16 am
I wonder if this 'dumping' in West End Lane is the same people?  :(


whtimes.co.uk collapsed pony found dumped in Herts Village is euthanised (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/collapsed_pony_found_dumped_in_hertfordshire_village_is_euthanased_1_4385672)



Edited only to shorten link
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on January 20, 2016, 01:34:50 pm
What a horrible story. That must have been traumatic for the person who found the pony.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Peeplins on February 04, 2016, 07:19:08 am
Just received an email from Grant re fly tipping which I thought may be of interest to forum members, so watch this space:


"Dear
[/size]
[/size]I thought I’d drop you a line to let you know that I’ve been contacted by a large number of residents concerned about the ongoing problem our community is facing with fly-tipping. No one wants to live in a messy community, yet once fly-tipping begins, it can be difficult to stop a downward spiral. I therefore thought you’d be interested to hear some positive news in our fight against litter.
[/size]
[/size]I am pleased to say that yesterday, the Conservative – led Borough Council confirmed their budget recommendations and, having listened to local people – has included additional funding to tackle fly-tipping.
[/size]
[/size]The exact details are to be confirmed but the Council will soon be establishing a taskforce to focus on tackling this issue; first by improving the speed at which fly-tipping is collected and second by taking strong enforcement action against those who are caught fly-tipping.
[/size]
[/size]This is very welcome news, clearly the problem will not resolved overnight, but it’s good that concrete action is being taken to help keep our community cleaner.
[/size]
[/size]Best wishes
Grant."
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on February 04, 2016, 09:50:20 am
I have a feeling of deja vu.   This morning at about 7.30 a.m. I saw a white and orange tipper truck with 'Highway Maintenance' written in red across the front dump a load of soil near the bend on Bradmore Lane blocking the road.
I followed it (this is becoming a habit) and surprise, surprise, it turned into the travellers site on Bulls Lane.
I have reported it to the council. >:(
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on February 04, 2016, 12:29:26 pm
Well done Peppermint!  :)


 Let's hope the new "taskforce" take "strong" enforcement action......
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Alex on February 06, 2016, 08:17:35 am
well done for doing this. Its disgusting what people are getting away with. I saw the soil on a Health Walk Thursday.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on February 09, 2016, 12:48:10 pm
More rubble dumped this morning blocking the road at the bottom of Bradmore Lane.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on February 09, 2016, 07:30:44 pm
Driving up Kentish Lane on Sunday there was rubbish strewn along the roadside all the way from the junction with the A1000 to the junction with Grubbs Lane. Some of it's been there for weeks. The council appears to have given up on all but the worst offences.
This is what funding cuts and lean local government mean in practice. Of course, the degradation of the environment ultimately feeds through to house values, so even if you don't care about the environment, think about what's happening to the value of one of your main assets if the surroundings start to look like The Jungle in Calais.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on February 16, 2016, 10:50:22 pm
Warrengate Road is closed between the pumping station and the bungalows due to yet another dumping of rubble in the middle of the road :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: .   This is in addition to a number of rubble bags being dumped outside the gate into the horse field on Warrengate road this afternoon.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on February 17, 2016, 08:33:10 am
I wonder how much fly tipping could be reduced if people who hire garden or rubbish clearance firms asked a few questions before contracting them? And there are a few clues, too. For example. Someone knocking on the door offering to prune trees who has an unmarked van and a trailer without a shredding machine might not be legit (they might, but worth asking how they intend to dispose of stuff).
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on February 17, 2016, 09:54:45 am
Warrengate Road is still closed between the pumping station and the bungalows.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on February 17, 2016, 10:03:46 pm
More than 24 hours since Warrengate Road was blocked by a lorry load of rubble and it has still not been cleared.   Thanks WH Council.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nobby on February 18, 2016, 07:36:40 pm
I agree, it is a poor response from the council, but this is what funding cuts mean. It's even worse when it comes to adult care services as I'm finding out at the moment. Councils have cut £4.6bn from adult social care budgets since 2009-10, equivalent to almost a third of net real terms spend.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 03, 2016, 07:20:36 pm
If you traveled along Bradmore Lane today and wondered why an area was cordoned off by police tape, I can reveal why.


Unfortunately, about an hour ago, I witnessed a Luton van winching a dead horse from the ditch where it had been dumped, across the verge and up a ramp into the van.


According to the driver, there have a been quite a few cases recently.


It is not a nice thought, knowing that such scum live amongst us
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: LMS on March 03, 2016, 10:44:17 pm
Would it be possible to place CCTV cameras at each end of the roads being affected to check vehicles and their loads at the start and end of their transits? The film would obviously only need to be checked if and when fly tipping occurred, and maybe if the scum carrying out these crimes realise they are being watched they might even stop?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 04, 2016, 06:19:36 am
Would people who see fly tipping please take a picture and upload it to the site along with a description of the exact spot. I have created an interactive map of all the fly tipping we have come across while compiling the 52 local walks on this site (http://www.brookmans.com/walks/) and I think it helps show the blackspots where the most offences are committed.

You can zoom in on the map below, then click on the fly tipping icon I have created and a pop up with show a picture and have text with, in some cases, a link to the forum thread.

So, if you add an image to this thread I will then add that location to the map below, along with your image and a link to your forum post. You never know, it might help the authorities focus in on the problem areas - although I am sure they know them.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on March 04, 2016, 09:21:06 am
I think LMS suggestion of CCTV cameras at either end of the road is a great idea, particularly Bradmore Lane which would be easy to monitor and is also a popular dumping ground for these low life's.


The cost of installing, monitoring and maintaining them would, I am sure, be more economical than clearing the rubbish.   The downside is that these people will dump their rubbish somewhere else.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on March 04, 2016, 01:11:37 pm
Whilst you may have the numberplates and a suspicion due to the time taken to travel, it still isn't enough evidence. Much as I hate to say it, I think the council need to stop charging to dispose of waste and allow vans in to the tips. At least that way the rubbish will be brought to you rather than having to recover it from roadsides, ditches and the like. The evidence required is difficult to get, prove, and the sentences are not enough of a deterrent. You'll never change some people but if you make it easier for them they might just about comply. Same with those who use rubbish disposal services without caring where it goes, they're not going to change either.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: LMS on March 04, 2016, 01:45:17 pm
I totally agree with you slimgym, the council made it so difficult when I was clearing a relatives house, I can understand why people do fly tip. I'm sure if the regulations weren't so stringent and the hours more convenient more people would abide by the rules.
 I was rather  hoping that cameras would pick up fully laden vehicles on their entry to these roads, and then, if an empty vehicle is spotted a few minutes later...bingo!?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 04, 2016, 02:01:39 pm
I'm sure if the regulations weren't so stringent and the hours more convenient more people would abide by the rules.

Hi LMS, Are you really sure that people who fly tip would abide by rules? I doubt it. David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on March 04, 2016, 02:03:11 pm
Even if some of them did, it would reduce the fly tipping we see. Granted, a lot will continue, but it's unlikely to increase the flytipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on March 04, 2016, 02:21:04 pm
And it won't stop the scumbags dumping horses in ditches.   I can't see the waste site at cranborne road  accepting a dead horse.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 04, 2016, 04:44:35 pm
A few months ago, perhaps it was autumn, we were walking along a local footpath. Ahead of us was a bloke travelling the same route. As he walked he was picking up litter and putting it in his rucksack. A one-man litter pick. Clearly a person who enjoyed the wonderful countryside we have around here and wanted to preserve it. These are the extremes we are dealing with; those who don't give a second thought to dropping litter or dumping a trailer load of rubbish, and those who value nature, wildlife and the responsibility that comes with the right to roam. I am sad to accept that we will always have this problem. Legislation, rules and reporting fly tipping offences probably won't do much to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on March 07, 2016, 10:20:59 am
WHT article about Bradmore Lane horse -


http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/warning_graphic_images_dead_horse_dumped_in_a_ditch_in_hatfield_1_4445528



Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on March 07, 2016, 04:38:19 pm
Sad to see four new mounds of fly tipping on our walk around Wildhill today. Two were new dumps and two were additions to existing dumps. Seems the problem is getting worse.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on March 15, 2016, 08:03:50 am
I heard recently with scrap metal prices so low and no longer viable, alternative schemes to make money are probably the cause for this recent increase in fly tipping.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: GGDT on April 12, 2016, 01:35:21 pm
Fly tippers seem to have been out in force last night.

Drove past 4 fridge freezers in the space of 100 yards along Swanland Road this morning on my way to work plus various assorted bags of rubbish chucked into bushes on the road between Colney Heath and the Bell roundabout.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on April 13, 2016, 09:51:28 am

Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council discussed fly-tipping at their Cabinet meeting on 05 April 2016.


See page 3 (Agenda Item 7a) - http://welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=11000&p=0


This is a large document and will take a while to download!


Whilst acknowledging an increase in fly-tipping the following reasons are given for the increase.


3.6 "Although it is unable to identify a particular reason for this increase, it is likely that it is a result of better reporting systems, residents generating excess waste as goods become more affordable and residents are undertaking building works and moving house as the economy has continued to improve. Where residents share communal waste stores, large bulky items, excess waste and recycling are often left next to bins and outside waste stores"


Amazingly, the reduction in opening hours and restriction of van drivers visits to the Household Waste Recycling Centres (HWRC) imposed in January last year is not included here even though it is probably the single largest reason for the increase.


This information is actually contained in the following paragraph........


3.7 In addition to this, there are a number businesses who will knowingly undermine legitimate waste businesses through fly-tipping and avoiding waste disposal costs. There has also been a steady increase in the number of reported incidents of fly-tipping since the changes were made to the opening hours of the HWRCs and the introduction of a van permit scheme in January 2015


We now have the bizarre situation of green waste being dumped in country lanes and cleared away at tax payers expense, rather than actively encouraging van drivers with green waste to the HWRC's where it is actually used to create revenue for the Council by re-selling as composted material.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: GGDT on April 13, 2016, 10:40:04 am
Agree about the reduced hours and no van policy at the dump in Cranbourne.

I've been caught out a couple of times going down there with a car full of rubbish only to find it closed, it's a pain to unload it all again and go back a day later so I can see why some wouldn't bother and just fly tip it instead.

The no vans policy is a noncense as well. What is the point in having a tip if you can't actually take any rubbish there?!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: James Bentall on April 13, 2016, 04:40:49 pm
The no vans policy is a noncense as well. What is the point in having a tip if you can't actually take any rubbish there?!

You can take rubbish there in a van. I have already this year with a load of cardboard and green waste. You just have to register first. They give you a piece of paper through the post and you can then visit there up to 12 times a year. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me and is a good compromise between banning vans altogether and allowing anyone to go (which could therefore be open to abuse).


You can also take stuff in a hired van providing you take a copy of your hire agreement with you.


FYI form available here:


http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/waste/wasteaware/hwrc1/vanperm/ (http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/waste/wasteaware/hwrc1/vanperm/)
Title: Re: Fly-tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 09, 2016, 03:01:28 pm
Fly-tipping advice from the local Neighbourhood Watch

Jenny Morris, the OWL (Online Watch Link) support administrator for Neighbourhood Watch has issued the following advice for anyone who sees fly-tipping.

Quote
We often receive reports or enquiries from local residents about fly-tipping.  Fly-tipping is a crime. Here is some advice:

* DO: If you witness fly-tipping in action, observe from a distance and call 999. If you come across a fly-tip, contact your local council www.hertsdirect.org/flytip. Alternatively call 101 and a referral will be made to the local authority.

* DON’T IGNORE IT! Fly-tippers can now be fined up to £50,000 in Magistrate’s Court or unlimited fines in higher courts, as well as community punishment orders or prison sentences of up to five years.

* DON’T INTERFERE: with the tip unless there is danger of evidence blowing away, in which case contain it.

Record and report the following details if possible:

* The location, date and time you witnessed or came across the fly-tip.
* If the fly-tip is blocking a right of way.
* A description of the waste – highlight anything that looks like chemicals or liquid waste.
* If you saw any vehicles; what type, make, model, colour and registration were they?
* How many people were involved and a description of them.
 
Regards,
Jenny Morris, the OWL (Online Watch Link) support administrator for Neighbourhood Watch
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on June 09, 2016, 05:08:37 pm
This evening at 7.45 pm as I drove towards brookmans park on hawkshead lane a yellow tipper truck pulled out in front of me from the field entrance just beyond the vet college farm.   It still had its tipper raised and had just dumped a load of soil.

I followed it into the village, it was driving at 55 mph with its tipper still raised.   It turned into the travellers site on Bulls Lane.   I got its number plate and I will be contacting the council in the morning.
Do we know if any prosecutions followed?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on June 09, 2016, 08:43:05 pm
West End Lane again last night.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: peppermint on June 09, 2016, 11:30:33 pm
Larrylamb,


I don't know if any prosecutions followed but I suspect not.  We gave the information we had to WHC  but a couple of days later we had a phone call from them saying that I would need to be prepared to attend court as a witness or they couldn't take it further. The lady I spoke to suggested that phoning with information isn't enough and that unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted no action can be taken.


I understand the procedures they need to follow to prosecute offenders but I wasn't prepared to go to Court and possibly be identified by these Bulls Lane residents.


Editor,


I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I
believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them.


For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on June 10, 2016, 08:29:57 am
Larrylamb,

I don't know if any prosecutions followed but I suspect not.  We gave the information we had to WHC  but a couple of days later we had a phone call from them saying that I would need to be prepared to attend court as a witness or they couldn't take it further. The lady I spoke to suggested that phoning with information isn't enough and that unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted no action can be taken.

I understand the procedures they need to follow to prosecute offenders but I wasn't prepared to go to Court and possibly be identified by these Bulls Lane residents.

Editor,

I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I
believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them.

For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.


Hi peppermint,

Thanks for your reply, I absolutley understand your reasons for not wanting to be identified by the Bulls Lane residents should you give evidence and be recognised in court.

What with the absence of a effective police presence these people know that they can do what they like, this follows to normally law abiding citizens speeding, texting at the wheel etc because they know they can get away with it.

I am not critisizing you Peppermint in any way, but thats how the system works and as a result no prosecution, no crime commited so statistics say crime is falling
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 10, 2016, 08:34:24 am
Editor,
I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them. For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.

Fair point, I will send Jenny Morris at OWL a link to this thread so they can clarify in the text of their appeal.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Adrian on June 10, 2016, 09:03:17 am
Fly tipping is a crime and as such if you witness it occurring you should call 999.

All 999 calls are taped recorded and if you pass over the registration number as you view it or very soon afterwards it is contemporaneously recorded and has greater weight. Also if police are nearby and stop the vehicle soon afterwards they may be able to prosecute without your court attendance as they can secure sufficient evidence without you. Irrespective of whether a prosecution follows, it is still good intelligence which may be useful on a later occasion - even for matters unrelated to fly tipping.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on June 11, 2016, 09:48:58 am
Fly tipping is a crime and as such if you witness it occurring you should call 999.

All 999 calls are taped recorded and if you pass over the registration number as you view it or very soon afterwards it is contemporaneously recorded and has greater weight. Also if police are nearby and stop the vehicle soon afterwards they may be able to prosecute without your court attendance as they can secure sufficient evidence without you. Irrespective of whether a prosecution follows, it is still good intelligence which may be useful on a later occasion - even for matters unrelated to fly tipping.


As there is a proliferation of fly tipping Adrian I suspect a failed promissory somewhere.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on July 13, 2016, 11:18:18 pm
The council have upped the FPN to £300 for fly-tipping - http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/fly_tipping_crackdown_continues_as_new_fines_introduced_1_4615336 - a move in the right direction but not sure how many people they manage to catch at it.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 14, 2016, 07:46:21 am
I wonder whether the fixed penalty notice will make any difference to those determined to fly tip? And does anyone have any data on how many people are caught?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: sasquartch on July 14, 2016, 12:32:53 pm
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on July 14, 2016, 01:41:37 pm
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent

If the fine is paid within ten days it is reduced to £180 - So absolutely usesless as a deterrent.

I thought the maximum fine for fly-tipping was £20,000 - Why are the new fines so miniscule?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 14, 2016, 02:13:10 pm
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent

If the fine is paid within ten days it is reduced to £180 - So absolutely usesless as a deterrent.

I thought the maximum fine for fly-tipping was £20,000 - Why are the new fines so miniscule?

It does seem a small amount, especially when I read that dropping litter can result in a £2,500 fine. In that context, dumping a truck load of often dangerous waste for £300 seems a snip.

http://www.cleanhighways.co.uk/litter-laws (http://www.cleanhighways.co.uk/litter-laws)
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: epiphany on July 14, 2016, 05:05:41 pm
According to page 7 of this Parliamentary Briefing Paper about fly-tipping published in May 2016 the fines were increased to £50,000 or 12 months imprisonment in the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.


What on earth are Welwyn Hatfield Council playing at issuing such paltry fines?

http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/SN05672%20(1).pdf
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 15, 2016, 08:41:35 am
I wrote to Welwyn Hatfield earlier this week to try to find out how many prosecutions there had been for fly tipping in the borough in recent years. I asked:

Quote
Under the Freedom of Information Act, could someone from the council supply me with details on arrests and prosecutions for fly tipping in the local area in the years 2012/2013/2014/2015/2016, please?

The answer has just arrived via email. Freedom of Information Officer at Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council, Ian Colyer, replied within two days with the following.

Quote
I can confirm that there has been one prosecution for fly tipping in June 2016 and no prosecutions in all other years.  I can also confirm that there has been no arrests for fly tipping in all these years.

David
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Susan on July 15, 2016, 09:51:22 am
In fact, there was another prosecution in 2013 – see my post number 295, page 10, on this thread, for rubbish dumped at the North Mymms Community Centre. This successful prosecution was carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency and not WelHat Council, because the person who dumped the rubbish was a licensed waste carrier. (The EPA prosecute these carriers.)

I read in the WelHat Times about the June 2016 prosecution. The council prosecuted a man who gave his waste (an old kitchen) to someone he believed to be a licensed waste carrier. This carrier dumped the rubbish at Holwell Hyde Lane in WGC. The householder admitted his guilt, and was prosecuted.

I am concerned that the council prosecuted a soft target rather than going after the actual person who did the dumping, and who no doubt continues to dump rubbish. From the paper, the homeowner was someone of previously good character who thought they were doing the right thing. For WelHat Council, it gave the councillors some good PR, but really didn’t get to the root of the problem at all – which is prosecuting the actual dumpers who dump week in and week out!
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on July 15, 2016, 10:22:21 am
In fact, there was another prosecution in 2013 – see my post number 295, page 10, on this thread, for rubbish dumped at the North Mymms Community Centre. This successful prosecution was carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency and not WelHat Council, because the person who dumped the rubbish was a licensed waste carrier. (The EPA prosecute these carriers.)

I read in the WelHat Times about the June 2016 prosecution. The council prosecuted a man who gave his waste (an old kitchen) to someone he believed to be a licensed waste carrier. This carrier dumped the rubbish at Holwell Hyde Lane in WGC. The householder admitted his guilt, and was prosecuted.

I am concerned that the council prosecuted a soft target rather than going after the actual person who did the dumping, and who no doubt continues to dump rubbish. From the paper, the homeowner was someone of previously good character who thought they were doing the right thing. For WelHat Council, it gave the councillors some good PR, but really didn’t get to the root of the problem at all – which is prosecuting the actual dumpers who dump week in and week out!
Last paragraph spot on.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: slimgym on July 15, 2016, 11:11:09 am
This is sadly the story of life. The FPN will be used to prosecute soft easy targets like cigarette end droppers (who really should learn anyway) while complex ones or beefy looking people dropping stuff will have a blind eye turned. It's just a shame there are people through whatever cause who have no self-pride and consideration to keep the place looking as though they had never been there.

You see it all the time, people tearing cellophane wrappers off things and launching the wrapping in to the air. It's just so lodged in my psyche as wrong I don't understand where they get it form. Todays wrapper dropper, tomorrows fly tipper.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on July 27, 2016, 08:02:35 pm
47 fines have been issued for fly tipping in Welwyn Hatfield since 2011. Each fine was issued at £75, reduced to £50 if paid within 10 days. Year by year the figures are as follows:


The information was released by Welwyn Hatfield Council following a request under the Freedom of Information Act.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Ferdie on July 30, 2016, 08:10:34 pm
The fines I believe have recently been increased, http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/fly_tipping_crackdown_continues_as_new_fines_introduced_1_4615336 but still quite low if viewed against the costs they charge for legitimately paying for its collection, so where is the incentive to pay? However, these are fines, not prosecutions, where the amounts involved have been a lot higher, but in very small number. Clearly not sufficient as a deterrent judging by the amounts that continue to appear. Prosecutions are rare, due to the need to prove evidence. The cost to the tax payer of removal of the waste dumped consistently exceeds the amounts recovered in fines and prosecutions.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 01, 2016, 06:12:09 pm
In a field just off Grubbs Lane alongside the footpath from the A1000.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 03, 2016, 09:00:23 am
Be careful if driving or riding a bike down Bradmore Lane. I've just walked past a load of fly tipping and noticed that pieces of glass and ceramic tiles have spilt across the road. I have reported it to the council as usual.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 04, 2016, 01:58:52 pm
FREE: Lightly-stained double mattress, recently dumped at bend in Bradmore Lane. Ideal for someone who has low standards and is not that fussy about living in a tip. Must collect.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on August 04, 2016, 04:27:55 pm
FREE: Lightly-stained double mattress, recently dumped at bend in Bradmore Lane. Ideal for someone who has low standards and is not that fussy about living in a tip. Must collect.
Great offer but can I sleep on it?
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 04, 2016, 05:20:48 pm
Great offer but can I sleep on it?
;D Boom boom
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 06, 2016, 04:55:09 pm
The byway (14) between Wildhill and Essendon has been totally blocked at the junction with West End Lane with a massive load of rubbish. Take care if you walk that way. Horses & bikes won't be able to get through until it's cleared. Police are aware.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on August 07, 2016, 09:29:51 am
A Sunday walker has called me to say that a new load of fly-tipping has been dumped on the bend on Bradmore Lane almost blocking the road. Apparently there is space for a car to get through, but the local walker is reporting it to police and the council as a hazard. If anyone walks that way and is able to take a picture, please post in this thread. Thanks
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on May 28, 2017, 09:23:31 am
Bit of a mess at the top of Bulls Lane this morning. There is another pile of rubble further down the road towards Thunder Bridge.

Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on June 11, 2017, 02:09:17 pm
If the council is going to charge the non-fly-tippers £35 a year for disposing of our garden waste, it needs a plan for dealing with those who choose not to pay and find other means. I don't see why those of us who cough up should have to put up with this. Photo taken at junction of the BOAT Green Lanes with West End Lane north of Wildhill.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Nimbus on June 11, 2017, 02:37:26 pm
...of course, it is possible that the nearby borough of Enfield, where this is an epidemic, is now totally full of fly-tipped waste, and they're looking further afield.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 27, 2017, 03:50:37 pm
Just walked along West End Lane north of Wildhill and spotted 17 black bin bags of rubbish in the hedgerow on the north side of the lane between the two bends from Green Lanes to the Essendon BOAT. It looks like someone has driven along while someone else has chucked the bags into the hedgerow at regular intervals. It amazes me what sort of animals does this sort of thing while so many in the community recycle and do their best to take responsibility for the planet. Reported to WHBC. One of the 17 pictured below.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 27, 2017, 03:52:10 pm
There is an abandoned caravan on the east side of West End Lane, Wildhill between The Woodman and The Candlestick. I have reported it to the council.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: larrylamb on November 30, 2017, 02:17:24 pm
Just walked along West End Lane north of Wildhill and spotted 17 black bin bags of rubbish in the hedgerow on the north side of the lane between the two bends from Green Lanes to the Essendon BOAT. It looks like someone has driven along while someone else has chucked the bags into the hedgerow at regular intervals. It amazes me what sort of animals does this sort of thing while so many in the community recycle and do their best to take responsibility for the planet. Reported to WHBC. One of the 17 pictured below.
That will take you some time to illustrate on your fly tipping map.
Title: Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
Post by: Editor on November 30, 2017, 03:11:21 pm
That will take you some time to illustrate on your fly tipping map.

I gave up updating the map some time ago, Larry. It became 1) too much work, and 2) too depressing.  :(