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  • WHC Cabinet Housing & Planning: October 15, 2014
  • WHC Cabinet Housing and Planning Panel - Housing need for th: October 23, 2014
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  • BPRA update to WHBC Local Plan public meeting BP URC: November 27, 2014
  • WHC Cabinet Housing and Planning Panel - Local Plan consulta: December 11, 2014
  • WHC Local Plan consultation document - to ratify Cabinet Hou: December 17, 2014
  • Local Plan public meeting at Chancellor's 7.30pm: March 03, 2015
  • Local Plan public meeting at Memorial Hall 8.15pm: March 05, 2015

Author Topic: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms  (Read 592939 times)

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Online epiphany

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1440 on: September 15, 2016, 07:24:01 pm »
The culvert which the Ray Brook passes through from the Bluebridge Road sites has been identified by WHBC as a constraint.
The limited capacity of the culvert can and does result in the Ray Brook rising, resulting in the flooding of the bottom of the gardens of the houses in the Gardens.
Because the Bluebridge Rd sites are on a slope it is possible to build outside the mapped Flood Zone. There would be no need to enlarge the culvert.
In fact if the culvert were enlarged it would enable a greater volume of water through which would exacerbate flooding at Water End.
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1441 on: September 15, 2016, 07:33:36 pm »
I took a look at the surface water flooding risk map which is on the government site. Just enter a postcode to check the risk. The railway certainly appears to be containing water particularly between Brookmans Park and Welham Green. Screen grab below.
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1442 on: September 15, 2016, 10:45:51 pm »
Yes this is true.Its important for people to attend the metings next week to ensure they understand all the issues. Little Heaths sites will contribute to the overall drainage/flooding issues for Water end 
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1443 on: September 16, 2016, 07:46:02 am »
Yes this is true.Its important for people to attend the metings next week to ensure they understand all the issues. Little Heaths sites will contribute to the overall drainage/flooding issues for Water end 

A reminder of those meetings below in a quote from an earlier NMDGBS post.

We will be holding two Public Meetings to update and advise you. The meetings will be led by Planning Consultant Jed Griffiths MA Dip TP FRTPI and we are hoping our local MP, Ward and Parish Councillors will be in attendance.
 
 
NORTH MYMMS DISTRICT GREEN BELT SOCIETY PUBLIC MEETINGS:

WELHAM GREEN
North Mymms Youth and Community Centre
Station Road
MONDAY 19 SEPTEMBER 2016 at 8pm.

BROOKMANS PARK
United Reformed Church
Bluebridge Road
WEDNESDAY 21 SEPTEMBER 2016 at 8pm.
 
We look forward to seeing you there!!

Would the NMDGBS be able to expand on the purpose of the meetings scheduled for next week, please. What can those attending expect? What is the desired outcome?
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Offline North Mymms Green Belt

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1444 on: September 16, 2016, 08:31:15 am »

Would the NMDGBS be able to expand on the purpose of the meetings scheduled for next week, please. What can those attending expect? What is the desired outcome?



The Draft Local Plan consultation is currently running until 5pm on 24 October 2016 and is the final phase before it is submitted to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government. It will then be subject to public examination by a Planning Inspector – probably in early 2017. We need your support to register your concerns regarding what the Local Plan will mean to North Mymms – the villages of Welham Green, Brookmans Park, Little Heath, and the surrounding areas of Green Belt countryside.

This Consultation differs to previous Consultations because your comments will be forwarded to the Planning Inspector and comments must address if the Plan is a sound Plan for the future of Welwyn Hatfield.

At the Examination, the Council have to show that the Local Plan is “sound” under four distinct headings. We have summarised these below - your local knowledge can help.

1.      Is the Plan Positive?

·         Has it adequately engaged with local residents?
·         Do you feel your comments have been listened to and acted upon ?
·         Does the Plan adequately recognise the infrastructure issues – such as traffic, rail congestion, schooling, health care?
·         Can future development be sustained without an increase in infrastructure?
·         Are these concerns adequately addressed on the Local Plan?
Is the Plan Positive? Notes to help:
·         Following the last consultation in 2015, the housing targets have been reduced, but only marginally. Do they meet local needs?
·         HCC Highways have not come forward with any proposals to increase capacity on local roads, especially the A1000.

2.      Is the Plan Justified?

·         Are there better alternatives to what is being proposed (are the designated areas for development the best solution)?
·         Is the evidence for the Local Plan reasonable and fair?
·         Can the Plan bring any real benefits to North Mymms?
·         What do you see as the threats to implementing the Local Plan?
Is the Plan Justified? Notes to help
·         The Local Plan has forecasted approximately double the average rate of housebuilding compared other Districts in Hertfordshire. Challenging this target, however, is going to be very difficult. Although the total numbers seem very aspirational and unrealistic, the guidelines for creating these figures have been complied. In planning terms therefore, because the process has been followed, then the target must be right. It’s nonsense, but those are the rules laid down by the Government.
·         The predicted growth in jobs is just over 1% per annum for each and every year for the next 17 years. The national average is 0.6%. The predicted job figures do not take into account the impact of the British Aerospace redevelopment that has contributed to most of the jobs growth in WHBC over the past 15 years. This historic growth is unlikely to be repeated in the future.
·         Planning rules dictate that any development must be sustainable (i.e. current or planned infrastructure must be able to cope). Have you had recent experiences that demonstrate lack of capacity in local infrastructure?
·         When releasing land from the Green Belt, the policy is not to create standalone settlements or developments that jut out from the current boundaries. The proposed sites in the Local Plan all fail in this respect.


3.      Is the Plan Effective?

·         Does it contribute towards the vision for the Borough? (the Vision Statement can be found at the beginning of the Local Plan)
·         Will it deliver a sustainable solution for North Mymms?
·         Given your local knowledge, what do you think are the hurdles to delivering this Plan? What could render it ineffective (this could be lack of infrastructure capacity)?

Is the Plan Effective? Notes to Help
·         Your local knowledge is really important on this. Only local residents appreciate the issues around infrastructure and services capacity (road and rail congestion, schooling, health and social services). The Planning Inspector will match your local knowledge with the assumptions and assessments of WHBC.
·         You need to tell the Council about the facts around the inadequacy of the current infrastructure and your view on how future developments will make this Plan ineffective.

4.      Is the Local Plan consistent with national planning policy?

This is going to be difficult for most people to judge, as you need an intimate knowledge of the planning system to judge this. The Society has enlisted the help of a planning consultant to assess this issue. All we need from you is your local knowledge and your involvement.


At the meetings our Planning Consultant Jed Griffiths will be guiding you through these points and expanding upon them as well as explaining the process of objection.

We will shortly be posting more detailed information regarding this.

Please do come along to one of the meetings, there will be the opportunity to ask questions and we are hoping that some our local Councillors will also be speaking.
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1445 on: September 16, 2016, 10:35:25 am »



Extreme weather events are predicted to increase and anything that exacerbates this situation WILL result in homes in Water End flooding.
ALL the surface water runoff in the entire Mimmshall Valley area - which includes Welham Green, Brookmans Park (extending to Queenswood School), Potters Bar and Borehamwood ultimately ends up at Water End.
Ordinarily the water disappears underground in a series of swallow holes but in times of heavy or prolonged rainfall the capacity is exceeded and the swallow holes area becomes a large lake.
In this situation the usually dry riverbed that runs under Swanland Road and the A1M across North Mymms Park to Colney Heath acts as an overflow.
The culvert under Swanland Road has finite capacity and when this is exceeded the water in excess of the capacity has NOWHERE to go. This results in the Mimmshall Brook backing up and homes in Water End flooding.


So just 24 hours after posting this - we have an extreme weather event!


Driving around this morning the bottom of Bradmore Lane is flooded, the top of Bradmore lane is flooded with a huge amount of water overflowing and running northwards across to Potterells Medical centre and flooding Station Road before joining the Skimpans Brook by the St Thomas More Church in Welham Green where the road is virtually impassable.


Meanwhile the Mimmshall Brook continues to rise as all this water percolates down.
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1446 on: September 16, 2016, 11:01:12 am »
Driving around this morning the bottom of Bradmore Lane is flooded, the top of Bradmore lane is flooded with a huge amount of water overflowing and running northwards across to Potterells Medical centre and flooding Station Road before joining the Skimpans Brook by the St Thomas More Church in Welham Green where the road is virtually impassable.

Yes, I have just updated the flooding thread suggesting people avoid Station Road until it clears. I had to turn back because of a number of vehicles which had stopped in the water and the drivers/passengers had got out. Not sure what was going on.

As for Water End and flooding, you might want to keep an eye on this widget showing water levels in real time. It's available at http://www.gaugemap.co.uk/ and embedded below. I have added a screen grab of more detailed image taken at 11:03 showing a large spike in levels which you can find below the embedded widget.

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1447 on: September 16, 2016, 11:24:49 am »
Thanks for this, but I have an even easier sytem. I just look out the window and watch the water coming up the garden!!
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1448 on: September 16, 2016, 12:05:11 pm »
This is the evidence that the flooding risk is really there before all the proposed houses are built in the area.
LHAG members will support this argument in their comments to the Council
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1449 on: September 16, 2016, 03:51:08 pm »
Remember the residents at Water End on days like today.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1450 on: September 16, 2016, 04:41:01 pm »
I thought the flood defence wall and gates on Warrengate Lane were supposed to prevent flooding at Water End ?
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1451 on: September 16, 2016, 04:56:02 pm »
It only protects the bungalows
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1452 on: September 16, 2016, 04:56:56 pm »
I thought the flood defence wall and gates on Warrengate Lane were supposed to prevent flooding at Water End ?

The flood defences at the southern end of Warrengate Road are not actually in Water End and only protect the small number of bungalows near the Hawkshead Lane junction.

Water End stretches from the northern end of Warrengate Rd (junction with Swanland Rd, near the Cafe and Southern Cross Garage) south to beyond Bradmore Lane and Abdale House to the Pumping Station and is completely unprotected.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1453 on: September 16, 2016, 05:10:19 pm »
when the flood wall was built, the road alongside it was raised at the north end of the wall to prevent any water breaching the riverbank from returning back down to the bungalows. All this does is sends more water to the area north of the wall.

The residents were told that the brick bridge at the bottom of Hawkshead Road would act as a dam, causing the large field on Swanland Road to flood.

Unfortunately if houses are built on Bradmore Lane the run off of flood water will have a devastating effect on any dwellings north of the flood wall.
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1454 on: September 16, 2016, 06:34:00 pm »
I have split the last five posts from the 'Local rain, flooding, ice and fog warnings' thread in order to keep all Water End flooding contributions together. No posts have been lost. David
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Offline North Mymms Green Belt

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1455 on: September 18, 2016, 09:01:23 am »
We are attending Balloon Day today from midday on the village green in Welham Green where we will be providing advice and information about the current Public Consultation on the Local Plan.

Please do come along and see us - particularly if you are unable to make either of our Public meetings tomorrow or Wednesday.


Monday 19 September 2016 at 8pm - WELHAM GREEN:North Mymms Youth and Community Centre Station Road

Wednesday 21 September 2016 at 8pm - BROOKMANS PARK: United Reformed Church, Oaklands Avenue

 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1456 on: September 19, 2016, 09:17:11 am »

NORTH MYMMS DISTRICT GREEN BELT SOCIETY PUBLIC MEETINGS


******************MEETING TONIGHT!!******************


WELHAM GREEN


North Mymms Youth and Community Centre

(Behind St Thomas More RC Church)

Station Road

MONDAY 19 SEPTEMBER 2016 at 8pm.



If you are unable to make tonight. we have another meeting on Wednesday :)


BROOKMANS PARK

United Reformed Church

Bluebridge Road

WEDNESDAY 21 SEPTEMBER 2016 at 8pm.



















 

Offline Paula Farson

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1457 on: September 19, 2016, 04:58:09 pm »
I am a Hertsmere resident on Osborne Road. I am appalled that I have only just found out about this via a leaflet dropped through my letter box whilst on holiday (thank you!). I am in contact with three other households who also knew nothing. We are all planning to attend the meeting on Wednesday, 21st September, however I am struggling to bring myself up to speed to find out the latest situation and the email address for the Little Heath Action Group appears to be invalid. Is anyone able to tell me their correct contact details and/or briefly precis the information for me? Have any of the many objections been upheld? 


I will be very grateful to hear from you.


Thank you.


Paula
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1458 on: September 19, 2016, 05:17:58 pm »
Hi Paula,

Welcome to the forum. A scroll back through the last few pages will give you an update on the situation, but I am sure the forum member called Leader will respond. I have messaged him regarding the contact details.

David
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1459 on: September 19, 2016, 08:54:15 pm »
Paula, welcome back from holiday !
Information re developments in the area are regularly posted, keep in touch with this web site?!
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1460 on: September 19, 2016, 11:10:38 pm »
Hi Paula


I am the leader of the Little Heath Action Group.


You can get me on-                       littleheathactiongroup@aol.co.uk


The meeting scheduled for Wednesday 21 st at Brookmans Park church at 8pm will bring you up to date. I shall be there and will be very happy to have a chat about the Local plan
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1461 on: September 20, 2016, 06:20:25 pm »
We have produced two handouts which we are providing at our Public Meetings.

The handouts detail the main points of objection to the North Mymms sites in the Draft Local Plan and also provide a summary of what is in the Plan along with information on how to respond.

<a href="http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/Handout%201.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/Handout%201.pdf</a>

<a href="http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/Handout%202.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/Handout%202.pdf</a>

Edited to embed PDFs



« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 06:59:20 am by Editor »
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1462 on: September 21, 2016, 08:45:41 am »
NORTH MYMMS DISTRICT GREEN BELT SOCIETY PUBLIC MEETINGS


******************MEETING TONIGHT!!******************


BROOKMANS PARK

United Reformed Church
Bluebridge Road
WEDNESDAY 21 SEPTEMBER 2016 at 8pm.

 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1463 on: September 22, 2016, 06:44:10 pm »
The Green Belt meeting last night was standing room only at the church for advice on the Local Plan and how to respond.

Questions were asked about new housing and air quality and whether internet connections would be worse in Little Heath.

However the positive outcome from local residents was that not one person there spoke in favour of BrP4 (HS22) the site for 250 new houses next to Bradmore Lane and Station Road below the railway bridge. This is the site that could cause the existing flood problems at Water End (Warrengate Road) to get worse than ever.

Everyone was urged to respond to the consultation, particularly against the site BrP4.

 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1464 on: September 22, 2016, 09:12:48 pm »
We were at the Green Belt meeting last night and what became clear is that if we don't object by submitting  the Draft Local Plan Proposed Submission Representation Form which can be found on http://www.welhat.gov.uk/localplan the chances are that development of the approved areas will go ahead.


It may be that the you are unaware of the development plans, particularly the development of
250 dwellings to the west of the railway on the junction of station Road and Bradmore Lane BrP4 HS22.


If this particular development were to go ahead it would completely change what is a beautiful rural area on the edge of the village into an urban sprawl.   Bradmore Lane and Warrengate Road would have to be widened to provide roads more suitable for the extra 250+ cars that would need to use the roads for access to the  new development.


As residents of Warrengate Road  we are particularly concerned about the affect a development of such proportions will have on the flood risk that already exists for us.   How will the roads be widened to accommodate the extra traffic, in particular Warrengate Road which is limited by the flood wall on one side and houses on the other.


I hope that anyone reading this will take the time to submit their comments on the above mentioned form as this development affects all of us but for the residents of Warrengate Road the changes will be much more.   There aren't many residents down here so any support towards our objections would be very much appreciated.   Thank you.

(Edited to fix broken link)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 06:41:24 am by Editor »
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1465 on: September 22, 2016, 10:37:23 pm »

If this particular development were to go ahead it would completely change what is a beautiful rural area on the edge of the village into an urban sprawl.   Bradmore Lane and Warrengate Road would have to be widened to provide roads more suitable for the extra 250+ cars that would need to use the roads for access to the  new development.


You are quite correct Peppermint to refer to this proposed development as urban sprawl. The railway line is a very strong and very permanant Green Belt boundary that has successfully contained Brookmans Park since the Green Belt was created back in the 1940's.
When the Council proposes changes to the Green Belt boundary (which it can only do as part of a Local Plan) the National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) paragraph 83 requires it to "consider the Green Belt boundaries having regard to their permanance in the long term, so that they should be cabable of enduring beyond the plan period" ie beyond 2032.
It is quite obvious that if the the railway line is allowed to be breached and development takes place in this very open and previously undeveloped area that it will not just stop there - the floodgates will have been well and truly opened.
The proposed southern boundary of Site HS22 (BrP4) will leave only an extremely narrow strip of Green Belt between the site and the RVC - Inevitably over time the RVC will expand to fill this gap.
The RVC is currently proposing to expand its site virtually up to the railway line, so in future years it will only have one direction it can go in - north!!
The northern boundary of Site HS22 (BrP4) is Bradmore Lane which is classed as a moderate boundary. The actual existing northern boundary of Brookmans Park is further north on the other side of the railway line, level with Potterells Medical Centre.
The likelihood of the field to the north of HS22 (BrP4) being developed from Bradmore Lane up to Potterells Medical Centre in the future will be enormous because it will not extend development any further north than the existing boundary of BP and the new northern Green Belt boundary would be the access road to Potterells which would also be a moderate boundary - so there would be no weakening of the boundary.
A developer would put these very strong arguments forward to justify the proposal.
So you can clearly see that by breaching the railway line it WILL lead to further development in the Green Belt.
The scenario I have described above would be certain to happen and a worst case scenario would be that were it to happen a view could be taken in the future that because the gap between BP and Welham Green was so small that you might as well join them up and create one new settlement.

Of course none of this could happen in the future IF the railway line is not breached and it is allowed to continue what it has been doing so well for the past 70 years.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 11:02:38 pm by epiphany »
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1466 on: September 22, 2016, 10:40:02 pm »
Just to correct the link on my previous post, it is www.welhat.gov.uk/localplan .


 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1467 on: September 23, 2016, 08:26:51 am »

If this particular development were to go ahead it would completely change what is a beautiful rural area on the edge of the village into an urban sprawl.   Bradmore Lane and Warrengate Road would have to be widened to provide roads more suitable for the extra 250+ cars that would need to use the roads for access to the  new development.


You are quite correct Peppermint to refer to this proposed development as urban sprawl. The railway line is a very strong and very permanant Green Belt boundary that has successfully contained Brookmans Park since the Green Belt was created back in the 1940's.
When the Council proposes changes to the Green Belt boundary (which it can only do as part of a Local Plan) the National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) paragraph 83 requires it to "consider the Green Belt boundaries having regard to their permanance in the long term, so that they should be cabable of enduring beyond the plan period" ie beyond 2032.
It is quite obvious that if the the railway line is allowed to be breached and development takes place in this very open and previously undeveloped area that it will not just stop there - the floodgates will have been well and truly opened.
The proposed southern boundary of Site HS22 (BrP4) will leave only an extremely narrow strip of Green Belt between the site and the RVC - Inevitably over time the RVC will expand to fill this gap.
The RVC is currently proposing to expand its site virtually up to the railway line, so in future years it will only have one direction it can go in - north!!
The northern boundary of Site HS22 (BrP4) is Bradmore Lane which is classed as a moderate boundary. The actual existing northern boundary of Brookmans Park is further north on the other side of the railway line, level with Potterells Medical Centre.
The likelihood of the field to the north of HS22 (BrP4) being developed from Bradmore Lane up to Potterells Medical Centre in the future will be enormous because it will not extend development any further north than the existing boundary of BP and the new northern Green Belt boundary would be the access road to Potterells which would also be a moderate boundary - so there would be no weakening of the boundary.
A developer would put these very strong arguments forward to justify the proposal.
So you can clearly see that by breaching the railway line it WILL lead to further development in the Green Belt.
The scenario I have described above would be certain to happen and a worst case scenario would be that were it to happen a view could be taken in the future that because the gap between BP and Welham Green was so small that you might as well join them up and create one new settlement.

Of course none of this could happen in the future IF the railway line is not breached and it is allowed to continue what it has been doing so well for the past 70 years.

This map https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zEKv0tHI91kY.kS6jnz9P1low  demonstrates the above.

It details a solar farm that will adjoin the RVC sports ground in Hawkshead Lane which has recently been granted planning permission, The RVC Major Developed Site, Site HS22 (BrP4) and the field to the north of HS22 which would be at risk of future encroachment into the Green Belt.

The map clearly demonstrates how fragile the gap between Potters Bar and Hatfield really is. The gap between PB & Hatfield is considered a strategic gap and is protected by National Planning Policy whereas the gap between villages or villages and towns is not!
 
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1468 on: September 23, 2016, 08:39:21 am »

This map https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zEKv0tHI91kY.kS6jnz9P1low  demonstrates the above.

It details a solar farm that will adjoin the RVC sports ground in Hawkshead Lane which has recently been granted planning permission, The RVC Major Developed Site, Site HS22 (BrP4) and the field to the north of HS22 which would be at risk of future encroachment into the Green Belt.

The map clearly demonstrates how fragile the gap between Potters Bar and Hatfield really is. The gap between PB & Hatfield is considered a strategic gap and is protected by National Planning Policy whereas the gap between villages or villages and towns is not!

Is there no limit on how far the RVC is allowed to continue to grow? Does the place have special dispensation to spread?
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1469 on: September 23, 2016, 09:04:47 am »
The RVC is already set to expand, see the Local Plan Consultation document from 2015 -


http://consult.welhat.gov.uk/portal/planning_policy/local_plan_consultation_january_2015/local_plan_consultation_january_2015?pointId=1421325221890


The RVC has presented a proposal to expand the site more than this http://consult.welhat.gov.uk/file/3404286


I imagine the RVC will be pushing for this in the Public Examination of the Plan.


If you look at the planning history for the RVC (and there is a lot!) you will find that they have never been refused planning permission.


Quite simply they are considered too important in economic terms and this always provides the 'Special Circumstances' to allow development in the Green Belt.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 09:15:28 am by epiphany »
 

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