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Author Topic: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms  (Read 594776 times)

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Offline Editor

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1260 on: March 13, 2015, 03:20:11 pm »
Does nobody have a view on Councillor Duncan Bell suggesting Brookmans Park is a suitable place for a Gypsy and Traveller site ?

Hi Motherchuck, could you please provide a source for the quotes you are referring to? I have searched the documents and couldn't find the exact wording you are quoting. Here are the two links I found.

http://consult.welhat.gov.uk/portal/planning_policy/local_plan_consultation_january_2015/local_plan_consultation_january_2015?pointId=1421325221822&do=view

http://consult.welhat.gov.uk/portal/planning_policy/local_plan_consultation_january_2015/local_plan_consultation_january_2015?pointId=1421325221827#section-1421325221827

I am clearly looking in the wrong place because the quotes you have go a lot further than what is said on the pages I have shared. And, of course, if people are being encouraged to respond to a quote it's important we have the exact wording.

David
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1261 on: March 13, 2015, 03:33:02 pm »
Does nobody have a view on Councillor Duncan Bell suggesting Brookmans Park is a suitable place for a Gypsy and Traveller site ?

Hi Motherchuck,

I have just spoken to Councillor Duncan Bell and he denies suggesting Brookmans Park is a suitable place for a Gypsy and Traveller site. He told me that he used the term “elsewhere”.

I think if you are asking people for a response to a quote we need the exact quote and a source/link for that quote, otherwise it could all become confusing and misleading.

David
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Offline motherchuck

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1262 on: March 13, 2015, 03:50:35 pm »
David,

Click the second link then scroll down to Para 11.20 then click on View Comments (1)

I agree he doesn't say 'Brookmans Park'  but 'sites elsewhere that are avoiding growth' and 'we should probably be  looking at some of the 'Finely Balanced' and 'Less Favourable' sites'. I think this is Brookmans Park unless anyone can find another site that better fits this description.

My original post was timed at 01-55 today.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1263 on: March 13, 2015, 03:58:21 pm »
I agree he doesn't say 'Brookmans Park'  but 'sites elsewhere that are avoiding growth' and 'we should probably be  looking at some of the 'Finely Balanced' and 'Less Favourable' sites'. I think this is Brookmans Park unless anyone can find another site that better fits this description.

Thanks for clarifying. So, if Councillor Duncan Bell denies suggesting Brookmans Park, and you agree he didn't say that, what part of his quote are you asking people to comment on?
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1264 on: March 13, 2015, 04:19:51 pm »
Councillor Duncan Bell has just emailed me a pdf of all comments that he submitted in his responses to the Local Plan Consultation Document. Embedded below.

<a href="http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/14981Consultation%20Submission%2002.03.2015.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/14981Consultation%20Submission%2002.03.2015.pdf</a>
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1265 on: March 13, 2015, 04:47:55 pm »
If you want to know who said what simply go onto the Consultation Portal, click who said what at the top, click consultees and that gets you here http://consult.welhat.gov.uk/common/search/advanced_search.jsp?lookingFor=consultees&searchQuery=Keywords&letters=Keywords&eventId=24328&x=60&y=16&tab=list
The alphabetical list displayed will provide a list of all consultees by surname. All very interesting and illuminating. So far I have discovered an additional site proposed for Pooleys Lane, Welham Green and I have discovered that, surprise, surprise, many people are commenting on sites that are near to where they live and some are even helpfully suggesting sites that are far more suitable, surprise, surprise, somewhere not next to where they live. So many agendas flying around on here and within the comments.
Other than Cllr Duncan Bell, there does not seem to be any comments (yet) from our own Parish/Borough Councillors
 

Offline Bewildered

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1266 on: March 13, 2015, 04:50:30 pm »
If Councillor Duncan Bell is suggesting that Gypsy and Traveller sites should be 'sites elsewhere that are avoiding growth', which other sites within the Borough actually fit this criteria?
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1267 on: March 17, 2015, 07:21:48 am »
REMINDER TO ALL

The Consultation period for the Local Plan closes on 19th March. Make sure you send in your views to the Council before this deadline
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1268 on: March 17, 2015, 09:44:24 am »
The BPRA would like to thank everyone who responded to the WHBC Local Plan consultation so far. We will make the final collection from the Newsagents at 10am tomorrow morning and then hand-deliver all the letters to the Council. We are aware that local developers have been attending many meetings in the area in an attempt to bring Brookmans Park sites back into consideration. This has already resulted in complaints from Panshanger residents and one Hatfield counsellor that there should be more development in Brookmans Park. We therefore urge all residents who haven't yet responded, to do so if they can. The consultation ends at 5.00pm on this Thursday 19th March.


Edited to fix font
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 10:40:11 am by Editor »
 

Offline motherchuck

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1269 on: March 17, 2015, 03:53:09 pm »
It would appear that information has come to light from the The Hertfordshire Village Book published by Countryside Books that the original scheme was to make Brookmans Park into a Garden City after the station was built in 1926, which fits in with the fact pointed out by Councillor Duncan Bell that it is a four platform station to allow for a much larger population than at present. Hatfield is three platforms and Welham Green only two.

The population given in the 1981 census was 5000 living at Brookmans Park and now is just over 3000.

It therefore stands to reason that unless some nice new homes arrive all the businesses and services at Brookmans Park will wither on the vine.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1270 on: March 17, 2015, 05:52:21 pm »
I believe that when Brookmans Park station was built there were only two lines, what are now the fast lines and therefore it only had two platforms. The same would be true of Hatfield. When the extra lines, the slow lines, were added it was most easily done by routing the new lines around the other side of the existing platforms, giving us four platforms. Welham Green Station was built in the 1980s, long after the extra lines had been added.
 

Offline pinchefalise

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1271 on: March 17, 2015, 06:42:02 pm »
Has motherchuck some vested interest in having more houses in Brookmans Park?
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1272 on: March 17, 2015, 06:44:23 pm »
That is a very interesting question, and one that has been asked of Motherchuck before (but not answered)  ???
 

Offline Peeplins

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1273 on: March 17, 2015, 08:18:26 pm »
There were quite possibly boundary and methodology changes introduced in the mid 80's that would explain this change.

To provide full context here are the population counts for the subsequent censuses:

1991 - 3315
2001 - 3854
2011 - 3561 (does this count as just over 3000 or almost 4000!)

As a ward BP&LH the 2011 census shows 5874.

as Motherchuck would have you believe, 2000 people have disappeared from Brookmans Park.   If that is the case, rather than boundary and methodology changes, what happened to the dwellings these '2000' resided in?  Working on an average 2.5 people per household, this would equate to 800 empty dwellings! 

So arguably, we don't need brand new dwellings built as we appear to have enough empty properties somewhere!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 08:26:48 pm by Mermaid »
 

John_fraser

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1274 on: March 17, 2015, 08:44:22 pm »
Has motherchuck some vested interest in having more houses in Brookmans Park?
That is a very interesting question, and one that has been asked of Motherchuck before (but not answered)  ???

So if you disagree with a person's views it's acceptable to question their motivation and integrity? Should we all declare where we live and what our business interests are before we post on this subject? Or is that just for those on one side of the debate?


Motherchuck is entitled to an opinion, as are the people of Panshanger. Frankly, I think they have a point - and I'm not a developer. Brookmans Park and Little Heath should take their share of new houses. Some people on this board could have their posts summed up as "17,000 houses in Ashwell, not 1 brick here."
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1275 on: March 17, 2015, 08:58:03 pm »
There were quite possibly boundary and methodology changes introduced in the mid 80's that would explain this change.
Possibly, but possibly not. It's a reasonable hypothesis, but that's all it is. Personally I'd like to see where the figures came from so this could be checked.

I would also point out that you don't need 800 empty houses to remove 2,000 people. An alternate way to remove 2,000 people is due to people tending to start families later and live on their own for a greater amount of their lives, partly as a result of the increase in divorce. As the price of houses here has risen fewer young people can afford them. All this means there are more middle aged and older people and fewer families. As a result the average number of people in a house may have been higher 30 years ago.
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1276 on: March 17, 2015, 09:48:48 pm »
Motherchuck is entitled to an opinion, as are the people of Panshanger. Frankly, I think they have a point - and I'm not a developer. Brookmans Park and Little Heath should take their share of new houses. Some people on this board could have their posts summed up as "17,000 houses in Ashwell, not 1 brick here."

Motherchuck is entitled to an opinion and has been allowed to express it on this forum at will. Equally, other people are also entitled to wonder if there is an agenda behind his posts. After all, a developer posting anonymously to recommend building in an area that he owns land in, stands to profit hugely from that promotion.

As to your second point, no-one is saying "not one brick here". As you can see if you look around Brookmans Park, building is ongoing - just not at the density, or on the sites, that the developers want
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1277 on: March 17, 2015, 09:50:14 pm »


Motherchuck is entitled to an opinion, as are the people of Panshanger. Frankly, I think they have a point - and I'm not a developer. Brookmans Park and Little Heath should take their share of new houses.


Panshanger is not in the Green Belt, nearly all the proposed sites around BP & LH are in the Green Belt.
 

Offline motherchuck

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1278 on: March 18, 2015, 12:06:40 am »
Motherchuck has no agenda other than speaking up for the residents of the borough who are not as fortunate as the majority of  residents of Brookmans Park

I am not aware that other areas have such a superb local forum as Brookmans.com.

Does every resident of Brookmans Park, where all highly priced houses are owned, not social, really think that the land in the Green Belt at Hatfield or Welwyn Garden City is more suitable for homes than Brookmans Park ? I do not think so.

The whole agenda of the BPRA and the Green Belt Society is to try and resist any development at Brookmans Park by persuading as many uninformed residents as possible that land around Brookmans Park should be preserved in aspic and that thousands of houses are much better built at Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City.  Pull up the ladder Jack I'm alright. I sincerely hope the WHC ignore these selfish opinions and decide to distribute the urgently required new home proportionately.

As for the comment from Mermaid that 'Motherchuck is entitled to an opinion and allowed to express it on this forum at will' I think the term 'Pot' and 'Kettle' apply.

Posts by Motherchuck 45.

Posts by Mermaid 1468.




 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1279 on: March 18, 2015, 12:14:09 am »
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time! LOL
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1280 on: March 18, 2015, 06:32:40 am »
Posts by Motherchuck 45.

Posts by Mermaid 1468.

Motherchuck joined the forum 22/7/2013

Mermaid joined the forum 19/4/2002

So you've got a bit of catching up to do!   ;)
 

Offline epiphany

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1281 on: March 18, 2015, 08:28:37 am »
John Stapleton interview with Eric Pickles, Communities Secretary on LBC Radio 16th March 2015
http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-eric-pickles---live-on-lbc-at-7pm-106547 (forward to 20.49)
 
JS  “Let’s go to Roy at Brookmans Park, Roy what are your comments for Eric?”
ROY  “I live next to the Green Belt and I understand that the Green Belt is an Act of Parliament, yet the local Hertfordshire Council said they can take parts of it out for building land which totally defeats the object of having a Green Belt, so what’s your opinion Mr Pickles?”
JS  “Can they?”
EP  “It’s very straightforward, you can only build on the Green Belt in EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES and we’ve made it absolutely clear, AND IT IS THE LAW, THAT NOT BEING ABLE TO MEET YOUR HOUSING NUMBERS IS NOT EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES, so reviews of the Green Belt can occur, but if their saying it is a force of numbers, IT SIMPLY IS’NT TRUE. And you’ve got to remember why the Green Belt is there, it is not because it’s particularly pretty, it’s not because it’s got nice sheep or cows and things on it, it’s there to stop conurbations bumping into one another”
JS  “What are Exceptional Circumstances Eric?”
EP  “It might be something like a school, I had one on my own patch where the local doctors surgery needed to expand and it just went a bit into the next door field, that kind of circumstances”
JS  “So is your local council talking about Exceptional Circumstances Roy?”
ROY  “Yes, what they are saying is that we in East Herts have got to build 10 thousand houses, well Brookmans Park is a very tiny place and we’re gonna get to the situation where you are going to go from the centre of London to Welwyn Garden City and it’s all going to be houses and there will be no Green Belt”
EP  “That’s why you have Green Belt”
JS  “Well you’ve heard it from the boss, you’ve heard it from Eric Pickles they can’t do that, not for those reasons”
EP “And my officials will want me at this point to say that I am responsible for housing, I’m responsible for planning, I’m responsible for the whole lot, so obviously if anything came up I would have a look with an open mind, but all I can tell you about is the POLICY and the POLICY IS – NO BUILDING ON THE GREEN BELT”
JS  “I think that answers your question Roy”
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 08:54:19 am by epiphany »
 

Offline Bewildered

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1282 on: March 18, 2015, 10:17:18 am »

EP “And my officials will want me at this point to say that I am responsible for housing, I’m responsible for planning, I’m responsible for the whole lot, so obviously if anything came up I would have a look with an open mind, but all I can tell you about is the POLICY and the POLICY IS – NO BUILDING ON THE GREEN BELT”


If this is the case, then why have sites in Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Welham Green been put forward as  'more favourable' when they are in the green belt?
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1283 on: March 18, 2015, 12:46:00 pm »
The whole agenda of the BPRA and the Green Belt Society is to try and resist any development at Brookmans Park by persuading as many uninformed residents as possible that land around Brookmans Park should be preserved in aspic and that thousands of houses are much better built at Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City. 

That is completely untrue. The BPRA is not opposed to development at Brookmans Park at all - we have not opposed all the new houses being built at Station Close for example. We are opposed to building on the Green Belt and do not believe that the council has made a good enough case for the incredibly high housing targets. In any case, WHBC has identified brownfield enough for 5000 homes, and we believe that development should start with brownfield. We have never, ever, said that Green Belt land in other areas in Welwyn Hatfield is any less precious than ours!

Many people may not be aware that much of the Green Belt at Brookmans Park has development within it already, which does not show on the council's maps. So, for example, the RVC land is shown as Green Belt, but there has been development within it - the car park and playing fields to name but two recent additions.

 

Offline epiphany

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1284 on: March 18, 2015, 12:48:55 pm »

EP “And my officials will want me at this point to say that I am responsible for housing, I’m responsible for planning, I’m responsible for the whole lot, so obviously if anything came up I would have a look with an open mind, but all I can tell you about is the POLICY and the POLICY IS – NO BUILDING ON THE GREEN BELT”


If this is the case, then why have sites in Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Welham Green been put forward as  'more favourable' when they are in the green belt?

Good Question!
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1285 on: March 18, 2015, 01:20:29 pm »
As Cllr Boulton indicated at the Parish Council meetings, Welwyn Hatfield Council had to 'leave no stone unturned' in their search for possible housing sites, which therefore logically involved including sites on the green belt. Had they not done so, their plan would probably have been held to be 'unsound' as they had not considered every possible option.


As to whether any of those sites will go forward as part of the final plan remains to be seen, but I can understand why they had to be included in the proposals.


James
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 05:20:21 pm by James Bentall »
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline Bewildered

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1286 on: March 18, 2015, 01:50:33 pm »
Eric Pickles categorically stated that 'Green Belt is an Act of Parliament' and 'it is the LAW' and that not being able to meet your housing numbers is 'not an exceptional circumstance'.

I therefore do not see the logic in including sites which, according to the Law, will not succeed.

To put them in the plan under these circumstances, just to achieve the 'numbers' is surely VERY WRONG.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1287 on: March 18, 2015, 03:34:48 pm »
For those who are interested, the BPRA's letter in response to WHBC's Local Plan consultation can be found on our website:     http://www.brookmansparkra.org/2015/03/bpra-response-letter.html

The NMDGBS final response can be found on their website here:
http://www.greenbeltsociety.org.uk/resources/LetterReLocalPlanMarch2015.pdf


The NMPC response is embedded below:

<a href="http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/93640WH%20Local%20Plan%20NMPC%20Response%20final%202015-03-18.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/93640WH%20Local%20Plan%20NMPC%20Response%20final%202015-03-18.pdf</a>
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 11:10:57 am by Editor »
 

Offline Bewildered

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1288 on: March 18, 2015, 04:09:43 pm »
It appears that the housing needs will not be achievable unless numbers are reduced or green belt land is utilised for housing.  Should the latter be the case, would it not be fairer to spread the load throughout the borough rather than, from what I can see, it being concentrated in three towns/villages.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1289 on: March 18, 2015, 06:06:24 pm »
For those who are interested, the BPRA's letter in response to WHBC's Local Plan consultation can be found on our website:     http://www.brookmansparkra.org/2015/03/bpra-response-letter.html




Excellent letter from the BPRA - Well Done to all concerned!!
 

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