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Author Topic: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms  (Read 562945 times)

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Online epiphany

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1170 on: February 21, 2015, 06:37:19 pm »
John,

Totally agree about the strong defensible boundaries of BrP6 but BrP9 and BrP10 have the strongest defensible boundaries of any of the potential sites around the area.

This is because the farmland to the east of BrP9 and BrP10 is Listed Grade II and therefore will prevent any expansion of the sites.


This is incorrect. In the SHLAA Phase 2 December 2014 review, BrP6 is assessed as having strong site boundaries whereas BrP 9 and BrP10 have been assessed as having moderate to strong.


The farmland to the east is NOT listed Grade II although it does affect the setting of Gobions Historic Park and Garden, this equally applies to BrP9 and BrP10.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1171 on: February 22, 2015, 01:16:21 pm »
I have attempted to put the Brookmans Park sites mentioned in the Local Plan into an infographic. I hope the data is correct and it makes sense. Please IM me if you spot a mistake. David

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1172 on: February 22, 2015, 02:18:06 pm »
A big mistake NMPC made was producing a Parish Plan instead of a Neighbourhood Plan which has a legal status and must be taken into consideration by Planning. If a Neighbourhood Plan had been produced then North Mymms would be in much more control over any proposed development in the Green Belt.

Colney Heath Parish Council has produced a Neighbourhood Plan and consequently there is only limited proposed development in the Green Belt around Colney Heath as part of the St Albans Local Plan.

NMPC had the opportunity to produce a Neighbourhood Plan when the consultant who masterminded the Colney Heath Neighbourhood Plan pitched his services to NMPC.

NMPC declined citing lack of resources and finance. If Colney Heath could manage it, why not North Mymms?

Consequently we are now paying the price, with many Green Belt sites, particularly around Welham Green being actively promoted.

Sorry, realised I never replied to this one.

Although I was not a councillor at the time ( I was only appointed in August 2012), I understand that at the time we started producing a Parish Plan, producing a Neighbourhood plan was not an option. Our Parish Plan started to be produced in 2009 and was produced in November 2011. Legislation for neighbourhood plans was only passed early in 2012.

Leaving the finances to one side for a moment, producing a neighbourhood plan requires a LOT of input and help from others in the community. So, a challenge to the community. I will raise the idea of a Neighbourhood plan at our parish council meeting on Wednesday and ask for it to be put on the agenda to be discussed at our next meeting to see what resources (financial or otherwise) we can put in place. However, as stated, it will need support from others in the community. If anyone else would be interested in helping to put together a neighbourhood plan perhaps you could contact me - either via the IM system or via the email address neighbourhoodplan@jimney.org.uk [Moderators, I'm not worried about spam to this one so don't worry about hiding it]

More information about neighbourhood plans can be found here : https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/giving-communities-more-power-in-planning-local-development/supporting-pages/neighbourhood-planning

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
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Offline Alex

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1173 on: February 22, 2015, 02:30:46 pm »
??? Hi Motherchuck

I am interested in your comments , and I raise the following regarding your postings:

  • Are you yourself  a developer with an interest in land in Brookmans Park?
  • Are you  a resident of North Mymms with a possible development site near to your property and if so, whether you will be supporting development there?
I look foward to your comments,
Alex

I wonder if these questions have been overlooked?
Thanks
Alex
 

John_fraser

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1174 on: February 22, 2015, 02:33:17 pm »
Alex,

What do you do for a living and where do you live?
 

Online epiphany

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1175 on: February 22, 2015, 03:00:09 pm »
A big mistake NMPC made was producing a Parish Plan instead of a Neighbourhood Plan which has a legal status and must be taken into consideration by Planning. If a Neighbourhood Plan had been produced then North Mymms would be in much more control over any proposed development in the Green Belt.

Colney Heath Parish Council has produced a Neighbourhood Plan and consequently there is only limited proposed development in the Green Belt around Colney Heath as part of the St Albans Local Plan.

NMPC had the opportunity to produce a Neighbourhood Plan when the consultant who masterminded the Colney Heath Neighbourhood Plan pitched his services to NMPC.

NMPC declined citing lack of resources and finance. If Colney Heath could manage it, why not North Mymms?

Consequently we are now paying the price, with many Green Belt sites, particularly around Welham Green being actively promoted.

Sorry, realised I never replied to this one.

Although I was not a councillor at the time ( I was only appointed in August 2012), I understand that at the time we started producing a Parish Plan, producing a Neighbourhood plan was not an option. Our Parish Plan started to be produced in 2009 and was produced in November 2011. Legislation for neighbourhood plans was only passed early in 2012.

Leaving the finances to one side for a moment, producing a neighbourhood plan requires a LOT of input and help from others in the community. So, a challenge to the community. I will raise the idea of a Neighbourhood plan at our parish council meeting on Wednesday and ask for it to be put on the agenda to be discussed at our next meeting to see what resources (financial or otherwise) we can put in place. However, as stated, it will need support from others in the community. If anyone else would be interested in helping to put together a neighbourhood plan perhaps you could contact me - either via the IM system or via the email address neighbourhoodplan@jimney.org.uk [Moderators, I'm not worried about spam to this one so don't worry about hiding it]

More information about neighbourhood plans can be found here : https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/giving-communities-more-power-in-planning-local-development/supporting-pages/neighbourhood-planning

James

Hi James

Thanks for the belated reply. You are correct with your dates, but I am sure the NMPC would have been aware of the concept of Neighbourhood Plans as part of the Localism Act before the actual publication of the Parish Plan in November 2011. A decision could have been made to halt the progress of the Parish Plan prior to actual publication, although obviously I realize that a huge amount of effort and time had gone into its production, a lot of its content could have perhaps been included in a Neighbourhood Plan. It would have been a brave decision, but it would have been the right one. I also do not think that the production of a Parish Plan necessarily negates the production of a Neighbourhood Plan. Looking at it objectively, what has the production of the Parish Plan actually achieved? It certainly does not have the same legal  status as a Neighbourhood Plan. Colney Heath and Northaw and Cuffley Parish Councils managed to produce one!! I fear you have missed the boat this time round as it will probably take at least a couple of years to produce one, but perhaps it is something that should definitely be looked at for the future.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1176 on: February 22, 2015, 03:06:47 pm »
James, the BPRA suggested a Neighbourhood Plan to the Parish Council when we first set up in the summer of 2013 as we were particularly keen to see a 'design statement' for housing in Brookmans Park (as well as the other villages in North Mymms). The reply was that a neighbouring parish was working on a Parish Plan with a budget of 30,000 and many dozens of volunteers, and that wasn't possible in North Mymms.

The BPRA is still very keen to help with a Neighbourhood Plan, but unless the support is forthcoming from the Parish Council, this won't see the light of day.
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1177 on: February 22, 2015, 06:45:59 pm »
Thanks for the belated reply. You are correct with your dates, but I am sure the NMPC would have been aware of the concept of Neighbourhood Plans as part of the Localism Act before the actual publication of the Parish Plan in November 2011.

As I wasn't on the council at the time, I can't comment on this. However, I was involved with putting together the Parish Plan and although it wasn't published until Nov 2011, the vast amount of work on it had been done by the end of 2010.

Quote
A decision could have been made to halt the progress of the Parish Plan prior to actual publication, although obviously I realize that a huge amount of effort and time had gone into its production, a lot of its content could have perhaps been included in a Neighbourhood Plan. It would have been a brave decision, but it would have been the right one. I also do not think that the production of a Parish Plan necessarily negates the production of a Neighbourhood Plan.

Nor do I, so thinking laterally, there was no point in stopping the parish plan behind published, even if we had been aware of Neighbourhood plans then (I for one wasn't). Also, ta lot of people on the Parish Plan Committee (including the chair) were not part of the Parish Council (although some councillors were involved in it to be fair)

Quote
Looking at it objectively, what has the production of the Parish Plan actually achieved? It certainly does not have the same legal  status as a Neighbourhood Plan.

As someone who spent a lot of time and effort on the Parish Plan, I could take offence at that statement. Unfortunately however, I do agree that it appears not to have achieved very much. What it did achieve was to create some ideas that could have been taken forward by volunteers to improve the community; if you read the plan linked on the front page there are some good ideas there which, had they come to fruition, would have made the Parish of North Mymms a better place to live. The decision was taken by the committee around the summer of 2012 to disband, partly because volunteers were not coming forward to help achieve the aims of the plan but also because by that point there were two functioning residents' associations in Brookmans Park and Welham Green, and it was thought they were in better positions to take ideas forward.

Despite what I have said above, I do think the plan was worth doing; it did provide an insight in to the views of a large number of residents at the time and some useful information and new ideas did come out of it. The Welham Green Diary, for example, is now produced regularly and that was on the ideas that came forward from the plan.

Quote
Colney Heath and Northaw and Cuffley Parish Councils managed to produce one!! I fear you have missed the boat this time round as it will probably take at least a couple of years to produce one, but perhaps it is something that should definitely be looked at for the future.

We may be late starting, but surely it is better to start sooner rather than later. Are you willing to help?
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1178 on: February 22, 2015, 07:54:38 pm »
Alex,

What do you do for a living and where do you live?
Alex,

ADMIN - Please remove this poster's request for personal information outside of the site's rules.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1179 on: February 22, 2015, 08:02:02 pm »




Despite what I have said above, I do think the plan was worth doing; it did provide an insight in to the views of a large number of residents at the time and some useful information and new ideas did come out of it. The Welham Green Diary, for example, is now produced regularly and that was on the ideas that came forward from the plan.

Quote

We may be late starting, but surely it is better to start sooner rather than later. Are you willing to help?





Large scale housing developments within North Mymms will only be possible if the Green Belt boundaries are redefined, or in other words, large chunks of land are taken out of the Green Belt.


This can only be done by WHBC as part of the preparation of a Local Plan. The Local Plan will be finalised later this year and probably adopted early 2016.


As I mentioned previously, a Neighbourhood Plan would probably take about two years to prepare, so unfortunately would not be finished in time to be taken into consideration for the 2011-2031 Local Plan.


I would find it incredibly difficult to summon  the necessary motivation and commitment required to be involved in a project that I knew to be a waste of time.


It is a shame we were not having this conversation two years ago  :(  If I am still around in 2029 ask me then!! :)



For the sake of factual correctness, the Welham Green Diary has absolutely nothing to do with the Parish Plan or NMPC. It is produced by just one community minded individual in their own time and at their own expense.


 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1180 on: February 22, 2015, 08:12:35 pm »
I agree that the plan is due to be adopted early next year (although the timetable for the implementation has slipped already and may do again), however the fact the local plan has been adopted does not mean that the very second every site which has been deemed suitable for house building will be immediately built on. The plan will last, as you say until 2031, and so even if a neighbourhood plan is not finished until after the local plan has been published it would still provide some value in the areas such as house design, acceptable materials to be used etc. I would imagine this is the sort of thing that Mermaid is talking about when she says that BPRA are still willing to support such a venture. (thank you for your reply Mermaid).

I did not mean to imply that the WG Diary was in any way linked to the Parish Plan or NMPC, however producing a leaflet like that was one of the ideas which came out of the Parish Plan.


James
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John_fraser

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1181 on: February 22, 2015, 08:56:59 pm »
Alex,

What do you do for a living and where do you live?
Alex,

ADMIN - Please remove this poster's request for personal information outside of the site's rules.

It's only what he asked Motherchuck. It was supposed to be ironic.

??? Hi Motherchuck

I am interested in your comments , and I raise the following regarding your postings:

  • Are you yourself  a developer with an interest in land in Brookmans Park?
  • Are you  a resident of North Mymms with a possible development site near to your property and if so, whether you will be supporting development there?
I look foward to your comments,
Alex

 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1182 on: February 23, 2015, 08:17:49 am »
ADMIN - Please remove this poster's request for personal information outside of the site's rules.

Hi Bedlam, nobody is under any obligation to reveal their interests, address or, if they are using a pseudonym their real name. We allow anonymity on the site and it's up to individuals whether they want to post their details or not. However, if you feel a post breaks forum rules, please use the 'report to moderator' button and file a complaint. This is to prevent discussions being taken off topic. If you want to discuss please send me a personal message rather than post here. Thanks David
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1183 on: February 23, 2015, 12:00:42 pm »
Good Afternoon


Out latest article in the Welwyn Hatfield Times
 

John_fraser

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1184 on: February 23, 2015, 12:18:01 pm »
Quote
The train station is also not close enough for commuters to walk to...
Err, yes it is. All of Little heath is within 1.5 miles, by road, of Potters Bar station. Well within the walking distance of most adults, especially when the alternative would be to pay the ridiculous parking fees at the stations

Also, where is the site for a new garden city?
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1185 on: February 23, 2015, 12:33:43 pm »
Its just  over 1.5 miles and  the evidence is people do not walk. North and E Hertfordshire has Non Green Belt land available
 

John_fraser

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1186 on: February 23, 2015, 01:07:59 pm »
What evidence? And could you narrow down the location a little. North Hertfordshire is a big place.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1187 on: February 23, 2015, 01:46:52 pm »
could you narrow down the location a little. North Hertfordshire is a big place.

Those who have heard Paul Zukowskyj speak at the public meetings in Welham Green and Brookmans Park, know where he thinks a new Garden City could be accommodated - so perhaps an email to him might elicit the information you seek?
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1188 on: February 23, 2015, 05:50:19 pm »
Surly if people know they should say? If they don't say I'm assuming they don't know, they know the area is unsuitable, or they know it would upset the people currently living in that area.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1189 on: February 23, 2015, 05:57:53 pm »
People may know what was said at the time (and indeed the rationale sounded very sensible and suitable), but just in case things have changed since then, I again suggest that you email Paul Z to ask for the current thinking.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1190 on: February 23, 2015, 06:52:50 pm »
Paul suggested that the village of Ashwell, approximately 15 miles north of Stevenage, should be turned into a new town.
That would take 20 years, before a single brick is laid, assuming of course that the people living in Ashwell are happy to have their village decimated by the people from Brookmans Park.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1191 on: February 23, 2015, 07:07:36 pm »
We have been working with the North Mymms District Green Belt Society and they have now published an overall letter about the local plan and how to object, a map and key objection points for Little Heath...

Hi Leader, I have put together an infographic of the areas identified in Little Heath and the LHAG's objections. (please send me a private message if there are any errors or if you want anything changed).

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1192 on: February 23, 2015, 07:22:31 pm »
Paul suggested that the village of Ashwell, approximately 15 miles north of Stevenage, should be turned into a new town.
That would take 20 years, before a single brick is laid, assuming of course that the people living in Ashwell are happy to have their village decimated by the people from Brookmans Park.

The suggestion for a new Garden City in Hertfordshire non-green belt land is being supported by many organisations across Welwyn Hatfield. Potential residents of the new Garden City are unlikely to come only from Brookmans Park!

Those who haven't yet signed Paul Zukowskyj's petition 'say No to Sprawl' can find it at this link here:

http://welhatlibdems.co.uk/en/petition/say-no-to-sprawl
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1193 on: February 23, 2015, 07:46:40 pm »
It is being supported by people from across Hertfordshire - see


http://www.thecomet.net/news/mps_back_new_garden_city_as_alternative_to_council_s_north_herts_housing_blueprint_1_3936165


for example.


However this quote from one councillor in the local area appears to suggest more work still needs to be done..


Quote
A new garden city was considered by the council but was not found to be deliverable for the current plan period of 2011 2031, nor was any site identified in North Hertfordshire to accommodate a development on this scale.

[/size]See http://www.thecomet.net/news/homes_chief_says_garden_city_idea_must_be_explored_but_not_for_this_north_herts_local_plan_1_3946530[/color]
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1194 on: February 23, 2015, 07:55:12 pm »
epiphany

It would be preferable if you checked your facts before before misleading people when posting.


The open farmland to the east of the tree screened sites BrP9 & BrP10 (Friday Grove & Raybrook Farm) IS
Listed Grade 11. This can be easily confirmed with English Heritage if you Google 1000495.pdf

The sites may have been assessed as having moderate to strong boundaries and they may be called 'less favourable' but other sites, for example at Welham Green, have all been called 'more favourable' without
all being assessed as having strong boundaries and the green belt is only one of the reasons that will be
taken into account before a site is chosen to go in the Draft Local Plan. Do you really think that it can be
possible for all the proposed sites at Welham Green to be much more suitable for new homes than the proposed sites at Brookmans Park ? Do you not think that there could be some political string pulling ?

No one should believe that objecting to sites on the basis that they are in the green belt will have any bearing on the eventual selection of sites, that view is both novel and naive. The green belt has been increased in size for many years. It is not shrinking.

As a senior planning officer at WHC once said to me: 'The Green Belt Society, what's it for ?'
 
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1195 on: February 23, 2015, 10:41:16 pm »
epiphany

It would be preferable if you checked your facts before before misleading people when posting.


The open farmland to the east of the tree screened sites BrP9 & BrP10 (Friday Grove & Raybrook Farm) IS
Listed Grade 11. This can be easily confirmed with English Heritage if you Google 1000495.pdf





Apologies, I stand corrected. The map I was looking at must be pre 1987.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1196 on: February 24, 2015, 06:45:29 am »
It is being supported by people from across Hertfordshire
How many people in Ashwell support it?

The suggestion appears to be that we build 14,000 houses in Ashwell, but refuse to build 175 in Little Heath (or any in Brookmans Park or Welham Green).
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1197 on: February 24, 2015, 07:30:57 am »
Well according to their parish plan, residents of Ashwell (perhaps unsurprisingly!) feel..


Quote
From these figures the people of Ashwell favour some population growth, but not more than is needed to maintain the sustainability of the community. Only one person in eight would prefer no further growth.
Source - http://www.ashwell.gov.uk/parishplan.pdf chapter 8
   
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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1198 on: February 24, 2015, 08:10:07 am »
epiphany



As a senior planning officer at WHC once said to me: 'The Green Belt Society, what's it for ?'
 


Well, one of the things it is for, is delivering leaflets to every household in North Mymms to increase awareness of the Local Plan Public Consultation, something that WHC did not do.
 

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Re: Housing, planning, and development in North Mymms
« Reply #1199 on: February 24, 2015, 08:11:36 am »
As I understood Paul Z's rationale at the time, the new Garden City could be be built away from the current village and wouldn't necessarily incorporate it.

This would require co-operation between neighbouring boroughs, but of course would fulfil the 'duty to co-operate' that all the Local Plans are required to show.






« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 05:24:33 pm by Mermaid »
 

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