Author Topic: Council tax  (Read 34576 times)

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John_fraser

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2006, 04:46:52 pm »
I checked my figures again. I did have the 2.5% as 3%, which drops the my figure to 44%. I can't get 35%. I can get 34%, but only if I do the calculation over 11 years and ignore the compound nature of the calculation.

Quote
Anything wrong with us saying we want to increase spending anyway to pay for something.
As I said in last post - and should have said in previous ones - refer to the acceptable increase in tax to maintain services, but if services are not maintained then the tax rise should be substantially less. So in general no, but it depends on what the extra payment buys. I think PSCOs are a wast of money and a back door tax hike to cover the failings of the ploce, but that was where this debate started.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2006, 05:05:28 pm »
Yawn   ::)
North Mymms Parish Council precept for 1996/7 was £117,670.
The precept for 2006/7 is £165,300
According to my Excel spreadsheet that is an 11 year period over which the average cumulative increase was 3.46%.

Staff costs in 2006/7 are budgeted at £105,400 including pay, NI and pensions.  That is 60% of the total estimated income of £173,830. 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2006, 05:17:57 pm »
Sorry its boring Bob but we may as well get the facts straight before we launch into opinions.

Assuming your figures correct and using mine off the National Statistics site as below gives us PC inflation average over 11 years at  3.46% and weighted price and wage inflation over 10 years running at 4.18%pa, so unless I am missing something the PC is keeping tax increases below the level required to keep up with the effects of inflation as a whole. Good job then John?

Then we can discuss if we want to spend more next year?
 

John_fraser

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2006, 08:42:13 pm »
You are missing several things: Inflation is a compound figure so the average wage inflation over the last ten years, assuming 45.7% is correct, is a little over 3.8% not 4.18%. price inflation has wage inflation as a contributing factor so I am not sure if there is any validity in the idea of wage and price inflation, but if there is it would be lower than wage inflation.

The component off 60% wages does not shed any light upon the weight of wage inflation on the figure. As inflation is a measurement over time the value 10 years ago would also be required and it would be relevant to know how much services (e.g. man hours) were purchased with the monies.

P.S.

Iíve done my maths again and I now get a 10 year value of 40%. As I am doing the same calculation I am not sure why I had 44% before - I think I may have double counted a 3% -  but this does at least agree with Bobís stated figure.
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2006, 09:36:12 am »
Thanks John, as you probably see, I am trying to get to the truth here and perhaps someone with better accounting skills than me could provide this information each year anyway?

In Bob's last post he states the tax rise over 11 years is 3.46% pa. It seems from what you say that giving the correct weight to wage inflation and price inflation may be impossible. I agree the two are linked anyway but I think if wages are 60% of council expenditure this has to be recognised somehow.

I accept your compound point which I guess means the tax is higher than just price inflation.

What level of tax over the past 10 years are you saying would have been ok? assuming we just want to stay where we are and replace and maintain things?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2006, 11:52:30 am »
Questions
What is John trying to prove? 
Why does he think his inflation rate of 28% is appropriate?

North Mymms Parish Council precept has risen by an average of 3.46% for the last 11 years, not 10.  This is a 40% increase compared with a national council tax increase of 87% over a shorter period.
This year the NMPC precept went up 3.47% compared with a national average rise of 8.5% by all parish and town council precepts.
60% of this parish councilís costs are staff costs governed by national pay scales, national insurance and pension requirements.   

I am bored because it seems to me that John is trying to make an issue out of something but I do not know what.  Bandying about figures which differ by less than 1% seems to be a strange basis for arguement.  Thanks for your interest Peter, but Johnís motive is unclear to me so this is my last posting on this subject.  It has been a useful debate but I now prefer to spend my time on other activities.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2006, 02:46:53 pm by Bob Horrocks »
 

John_fraser

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2006, 10:07:23 am »
This debate started over the PC looking into the funding of a PSCO and my remark that the sanity of the parish council is to be questioned. Bobís repost was that the PCís portion of tax has risen by only 40% in 11 years.  At the time I found the use of only 40% a ridicules remark. True the PC is the best of the local councils we pay taxes too, probably because it is the smallest, but the remark seemed to indicate a systemic attitude that there is no need to justify what the council spends or taxes. My view is that any rise at all needs to be justified publicly. A rise below or up to the prevailing rate of inflation isnít too difficult to justify, but anything above need consideration and a clear and public justification. None of the councils seem to be able or willing to justify their rises. All of which outstrip inflation and all of which, including the PC, seem to be cutting services.

So, Peter, the answer to your question of What level of tax over the past 10 years...would have been ok is zero, as no one seems to want to justify any rise.

And Bob, the answer to your question of What is John trying to prove: If I am trying to prove anything, it is that all of the councils have become so removed from reality that even the best of them is not only unable to justify its tax rises, it is unable to see why it should have to justify how it takes and spends public money.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 10:01:36 pm by John Fraser »
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2006, 12:00:54 pm »
On the website of the North Mymms Parish Council you can now see the audited accounts for the year ended 31 March 2006. 

It shows the Balance Sheet and the Income and Expenditure account.  See www.NorthMymmsPC.ukf.net

Just to confirm that the parish council is not going to pay towards a PCSO, following the survey recently carried out.

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #98 on: February 08, 2007, 10:37:38 am »
News release about the Council Tax just in from Welwyn Hatfield Council.

Press Release / 8 February 2007 

Welwyn Hatfield Councilís Budget 2007/2008 Ė Council Tax


Welwyn Hatfield Council approved the councilís budget for 2007-2008 at its meeting on Wednesday 7 February 2007. The council has contained the rate of increase of its portion of the Council Tax bill to less than the current rate of inflation.

The increase for Welwyn Hatfield will vary from area to area depending upon specific Parish Precepts and share of special expenses. On average, the increase is only 2.9%.

Councillor Richard Smith, Executive Member for Resources, stated: ďIn order to keep the increase as small as possible the council has made efficiency savings, increased charges where appropriate and stretched current use of resources, resulting in over £1 million in savings. This money has been invested back into the borough through improved recycling facilities, the free bus fare scheme, additional CCTV monitoring and improved access to all services.

ďConsidering that the council continues to receive less investment income (in addition to others, we now have to give 75% of all capital receipts from house sales to the Treasury), I think that the councilís below inflation increase is commendable.Ē

Major capital investment in the borough in 2007/8 includes £7.9 million in council housing stock, nearly £2 million on the Moors Walk shopping parade, as well as significant investments in play areas, Rollercity, off street car parking and developments in Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City town centres.

The full amount of Council Tax that Welwyn Hatfield residents will pay will be set at the special meeting of the Council on Wednesday 28 February 2007. At this meeting the Borough Councilís budget will be added to the much larger expenditure of the Hertfordshire County Council and the spending programme of the Hertfordshire Police Authority to produce a total figure.

A further statement will be issued by Welwyn Hatfield Council after 28 February 2007 which will include the new rates for properties in the borough.

/end of news release.


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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #99 on: February 08, 2007, 10:58:28 am »
North Mymms Parish Council is to increase its 'Precept' (that portion of your total Council Tax that is paid to the parish council) by 3.3% to £170,800.

For comparison, the basic state retirement pension is increasing by 3.6%


Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #100 on: March 27, 2007, 11:30:10 am »
Check out www.communities.gov.uk which has just published the national changes in Council Tax for 2007/8.  It shows that nationally Parish Council precepts have increased this year by an average of 6.7%.   

Council taxes nationally have increased by an average of 4.2%.

Offline Grumpy Old Roy

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #101 on: June 13, 2007, 09:21:51 pm »
 
 As a new resident and member to the BP forum I have been reading with interest the comments about Council Tax. We pay the most and receive the least, but it's our fault, what we do about it, sweet nothing. Country's get the government and police they deserve, do nothing and get nothing, can you imagine the frogs standing for it? The poll tax was right, but we let the militant left, (who did not tax anyway) walk all over us.

Unfortunately, if you want action, then take action, I do not mean taking to the streets or insurrection.  Most of the so called minority groups who impose their will over the silent majority do so because they are strident, so its up to you, yes you.

As Edmond Burke said " All that evil needs to triumph is that good men do
nothing.

Roy(maggie was right) Painter
 

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #102 on: June 13, 2007, 09:51:58 pm »

Unfortunately, if you want action, then take action, I do not mean taking to the streets or insurrection.  Most of the so called minority groups who impose their will over the silent majority do so because they are strident, so its up to you, yes you.


Hi Roy,

So, what exactly do you mean?

Welcome to the forum by the way.

David
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LongTallSally

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #103 on: June 14, 2007, 07:42:36 am »
Quote
Country's get the government and police they deserve, do nothing and get nothing, can you imagine the frogs standing for it?


I wasn't aware amphibians paid tax. How much is the cost of a pond these days?
How did this derogatory comment about our french cousins miss the scrutiny of this sites' moderators?




Editied at request of LongTallSally


« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 10:01:04 am by John Fraser »
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #104 on: June 14, 2007, 09:13:43 am »
I don't it is a derogatory comment....in fact saying the French have higher standards than we do
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #105 on: June 14, 2007, 10:04:40 am »

I don't find it a derogatory comment either, I rather thought it was praising the French general public's attitude to avoid being fleeced by their local and national governments!

If it is the term 'frogs' that is being objected to, it is not one I would use myself, and in fact I regard it as being a bit old-fashioned these days, but it's not been used in an offensive way.

I will refer it to the Editor to see what the latest view is on this in the wider media.
 

John_fraser

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #106 on: June 14, 2007, 10:47:25 am »
I agree with LongTallSally that 'Frog' is derogatory. It may not be as bad as some names we use for others (e.g. the infamous N word or popular derogatory names for Italians or Spanish). I can see the PC comment coming my way, but the use of 'frog' was not required and the post would have made the point just as well without this.
 

Offline ADM

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #107 on: June 14, 2007, 12:40:25 pm »
Jesus wept...
 

John_fraser

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #108 on: June 14, 2007, 09:26:10 pm »
Thank you for that illuminating and thoughtful comment. Suddenly the other sides point of view seems so much clearer. I must now ponder my position. Oh to have such penetrating insights.
 

Offline stevea

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #109 on: June 15, 2007, 04:58:35 am »
Funnily enough, a friend of mine has a French mother - one day, somebody called her a 'frog' and that somebody got chinned!  Say no more!
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2007, 09:39:00 am »
A mildly amusing line the first time I read it but are we saying we want our kids to meet insults with violence?
 

Offline stevea

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2007, 09:58:18 am »
I was going to respond.........................but then decided that this is so petty that I'll let it go.
 

Offline Grumpy Old Roy

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2007, 12:45:42 pm »

 Re Council Tax

 Well. I really do appear to have upset everybody with my first forum comment, perhaps a little insensitive, but I can assure everybody it said in all innocence. however, out of the mouth's of babes and grumpy old men (that's me). Strange, I have never heard the French worry about PC when talking about, or considering, L' Anglais, Mon dieu, how the world has changed, thank goodness Wellington never heard of PC, otherwise we would all be talking french now.

I think this ultra PC sensitivity really makes my point.  Al l I wanted to put across was that the french make their views known in no uncertain terms and would not put up with the amount of council tax we pay. Yet, by expressing it in a basic manner I am rebuked, not for what I say, but for the manner in which it is expressed. Is it that wrong to use a little good old innocent Anglo Saxon expression,  especially about a country we saved twice in fifty years.
Please, let me assure those with fragile views, I was actually complementing the french. Can you imagine them having the same conversation about us ?

Roy, patriotic and proud, but still un PC.

 

Offline jet

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2007, 04:13:18 pm »
Roy, you have not upset everyone, you have upset the vociferous few. I am sure the vast majority who read your post took your point on board and did not think twice about your F word because it is of no importance in the grand scheme of things.
What it did show was that the reason England ( not Britain) is in such a crisis is that some of the indigenous population would rather appear to be gung ho politically correct in defending others and slow to back up those who tell the blatant truth.
The rates system is a disgracefull con on those who have bettered themselves and now have to pay rates as a form of tax to pay for services that people in BP in particular neither get or want anyway.
One of my many reasons for relocating abroad ( or going home ) was to escape the taxes of Britain. There are no rates either domestic or water/sewage here. Council services are few and not wanted anyway. Things are funded by Income tax and VAT thus spreading the burden. The result is a whole section of goverment cut out.
People pay for what they want or need directly.
The result is a government in surplus, expansion and employment for those who want it.
There are many migrants here, Eastern Europeans have come in increasing numbers.
The difference here is that they have to work. Even if they are on the fiddle they are not getting benifits/housing etc. They have to save up, pay their way and send the surplus home.
Result is a  flexible labour market, a country which benifits from their involvment and people that can return home in time to improve their own country.
Compare that to the way things happen in England, the migrants hanging about outside DIY stores after a days work from a dodgy builder or demanding free housing and education.
Sometimes the only way that one can see what is going on is to step outside  and observe.
The moral of the story, Maggie was right, make everyone pay a bit and don't burden the few with the many.
keep on telling the truth.
BTW the commands at Waterloo were in Gaelic, because the army was mainly Irish. So who won the Victory? Even the horses were largely green.
So lighten up you lot, stick together rather than sniping and England my rise again one day.
Trooping the colour today was as usual simply great. There is no nation that comes near it except perhaps the indigenous French for national pride.
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2007, 11:46:35 am »
Excusing a possibly racist remark with patriotism and being "anti-pc" gives those who are patriotic and anti-pc a bad name!

You are right that we are over-taxed. you are right that the French stand up for themselves better than we do.

You were wrong to use a word which is recognised as a being a derogatory term for a whole nation. Only a small mistake and easily rectified. Chances are no offence was caused since no French people read it. Easily put right by a small apology-none of us is perfect you know.

However not put right by pretending anyone who is proud of our racially tolerant country is somehow not patriotic and is pc.

Love the trooping of the colour. Proud to see the Union Flag on display. Not a flag to hide behind though.

I dont think the Scots Greys were Irish or Green?
 

Offline Grumpy Old Roy

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Re: Council tax
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2007, 02:10:02 pm »

                                          Bring Back The Ducking Stools

WOW, from council tax to racism. I am truly amazed at the response my perfectly innocent remark about the french has generated. It was intended to demonstrate how weak we are in standing up for ourselves compared to the french. HOWEVER, it appears PC is thriving in BP. The word racist seems to have become part of our every day living, daily, if not hourly, we cannot turn on the radio, pick up a newspaper, without hearing accusations of someone being a racist, or some organization being institutionally racist. Worst, here in a lovely part of rural  England, PC zealots have found perceived evil.

What next, bring back the Witch Finder General, (sorry racial finder) or perhaps the ducking stool, or for really bad remarks, why not burn us at the stake? Have we really sunk this low that a minority can monitor ones every day remarks? During my travels around the world, especially as a national service squaddie in the army I have been labeled, English pig, (and perhaps I was) limey ba@***. pomey *****, but so what, sticks and stones!!. We English, on balance, have left the the world a better place and to have now descended to, please teacher. he made a racist remark, is beyond my comprehension and defies common sense.

In 1944 my dad walked up the Normandy Beeches to stop thought Fascism? think on that before you worry about the F word, they weren't to worried about it then. Mind you, those naughty British soldiers did keep calling those bad boy Nazis, Jerrie's and Krauts, I bet today's PC brigade would not have been to worried about that then.

I would beseech all of those who worry about PC to remember that it was my and my parents generation that stood against this kind of tyranny that allows you to express those very views.

Lastly, instead of worrying about an off the cuff, so called un pc remark, lets use our energy to using our rates more wisely and give assistance to those who are less fortunate than the rest of us.

If all, or some of the above offends, then I am truly sorry and I trust my candid opinions will not preclude me from contributing to the forum. 

Thank You

Roy W Painter
 

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