Author Topic: Chancellor's admissions policy  (Read 96247 times)

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chazz

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Chancellor's admissions policy
« on: July 10, 2002, 12:08:19 am »
A pupil at Brookmans Park Junior School who applied to go to Chancellor's School in September 2001 for entry September 2002 was turned down.  No explanation given.  Appealed last month and again failed to gain entry.  She was told that she could go to Onslow St Audreys.

The pupil does all the after school activities, grade two piano, enjoys all the sports and drama clubs, which Chancellor's School like to prioritse as their preferred choice of applicants.

Out of her class of 30 pupils, she and her friend and fellow classmate were both turned down and are in the same position.

The pupil and her family have lived in Brookmans Park for nine years, and her friend, who was also turned down, lives in the next local village Welham Green so why have pupils from outside catchments areas been given priority over pupils who live in Brookmans Park.

Any help in supporting these pupils in getting a place in Chancellor's School would be very much appreciated by the pupils and their families and everyone who has signed the petition.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 06:38:57 am by admin »
 

Offline Mooniemad

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2002, 01:21:04 am »
 Yeah we also signed the petition. I think this is terrible. If I am not incorrect, I thought the school was built for the locals to stop the long journeys of which the kids were making. The school was built after local parents and residents complained that they needed a local secondary school. So they built Chancellors School. The school was then once going to be knocked down. It wasn't after the local parents and residents complained against it and won that battle. The main point here is that the school was established and survived from the efforts of the local support who live in Brookmans Park. So why has she been one of a few who have been rejected from joining the school. She is a part of Brookmans Park and has been left behind those from outside the area. Kids from Potters Bar and other areas may have been given a place at Chancellors. Why is this? When the school was being supported, I don't remember there being support from those other areas for it to go ahead. They didn't give a dam. I feel the school was built for the local community and so should serve the local community. I guess we could say this is a lack of respect for the community spirit. I thought a community was meant to be one, but from what I see, the school has stabbed some locals in the back. They ask us every year to fund the school, hand out leaflets and the news letter and also to go to the school events and then this happens. This is heart breaking for both the parents and the child involved.
This is also creating extra and longer journeys which are not needed. By her being given a place at the local school this could be avoided.
Please support the cause and put your views forward.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 06:39:33 am by admin »
 

chazz

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2002, 01:26:36 am »
I agree completely with what Moonie has said.

It is not fair on the parents or the child to make an extra journey.

The pupil's friends are going to Chancellors so why can't they?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 06:39:53 am by admin »
 

Offline brookmans.com tech support

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2002, 01:34:14 am »
Just to say that I have edited the messages above so they do not reflect the names of the children involved. This is for a child protection point of view - if anyone has any questions with this, please drop me an email - forumstaff@brookmans.com
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 06:40:10 am by admin »
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Offline James Bentall

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2002, 01:48:25 am »
Basically the reason why these pupils can't go to the school boils down to league tables.

Chancellors wants to be seen to be as successful as they can. This is not their fault, it is the fault of successive governments for pushing league tables so hard.

About 3 years ago, Chancellors altered their entry requirements, as I'm sure most parents know, so that instead of having Brookmans Park School as their prefered 'feeder' school, they could take any kids on an equal footing from 21 local primary schools. There's an article about it at

http://www.brookmans.com/news/places.shtml

Now the only reason I can think for of taking kids from a much wider range of schools is to ensure that they can take the 'best' pupils that are more likely to succeed. Unless anyone else knows a better reason!

Therefore, local kids tend to loose out. No, it's not fair, but unfortunately schools tend to care more about obtaining good GCSE results than whether a child is with their friends or not.

For those of us not in the know, can someone post details of how we can get to sign this petition?

James
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 06:40:25 am by admin »
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
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chazz

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2002, 11:47:04 am »
The pupil who this involes is going around brookmans park and welham green with her parents knocking on peoples doors and explaining the situation and getting people to sign.

They have had sooooooo much support in what they are doing. they have at least 7 pages of signatures with comments.

So far they have done the roads nearer to the village. I think shop keepers are signing the petition as well.

So please look out for her and sign the petition papers and put across your points of view.

What would you do if that was your son or daughter in that sitaution??

« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 02:05:22 pm by chazz »
 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2002, 03:49:24 pm »
This is a sad situation.
Of course children should be able to get an equal
education as close to home as possible.
Is it not strange that some parents in BP send their children long distance to school when Chancellors is on their doorstep and that parents outside the area send their children to Chancellors?
There must have been many in the same position as this child.
I can see no solution and I am sorry to say that I doubt if a petition will alter the decision of this type of school.
I hope whatever happens it all works out for the best, and that she is not used as a "cause" and suffers in any way.
regards,
jet.
P.S. making new friends is an education in its self, old friends who loose contact are not really friends.
 

chazz

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2002, 05:04:04 pm »
I think the petion will do some good.

They have written to the local Mp Melaine Johnson who has replied once saying that she can see what she can do.

These 2 pupils have been speaking to other families who children have been rejected from the school in the past years they had to appeal several times before they got it. So if the families keep on fighting hopefully they will gain a place for their son and daughter to gain entry in the school.

They are also considering going to the local newspaper (Welywn and Hatfield times) and advertise this cause.

 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2002, 05:12:32 pm »
Will this mean others will have to loose their places to make way ???
regards,
jet
 

chazz

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2002, 05:24:10 pm »
I dont think that it will come to that.

Chancellors is a big school and each year they have been adding more and more children to each form.

It woulndt hurt for 2 local pupils to gain a place would it.?

But honestly, do any of you think that it's wrong not letting  2 pupils from the local school join Chancellors??
 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2002, 06:57:14 pm »
As I said before, I think all children should go to local schools and this competitive type of marketing by schools is abhorent. All deserve good education and the same chance. If they don't take it thats down to them but society would have done its best.
regards,
jet
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MikeL

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2002, 07:25:26 pm »
Sorry James, you are totally wrong! Academic ability is one thing which is NOT taken into consideration when selecting the children for Chancellors. they assess sporting ability, musical ability and special needs but not how clever they are!

I know one of the two children in this case, and she is far far brighter than many of the children I know who have obtained places from outside the area.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that Chancellors have actually "shot themselves in the foot" with their new admissions policy. In the past Chancellors has achieved it's results in no small part because of the quality of the children who go there. Now they appear to have decided that they are going to reject the locals, especially those from Hillman Imp land (see other posts if you don't understand this!), in order to bus in children from all over the county (but not necessarily the clever ones). Once this new admissions policy reaches GSCE pupils, I think we can expect to see a decline in Chancellors league status, which isn’t actually that marvellous if we are going to be honest.

This new policy will not only effect families with young children. one of the reasons for the high property prices in BP is the local school, with people moving into the area to ensure that their children go there. Now that pupils from the West of Bluebridge Road are no longer accepted at Chancellors, property prices will fall.

One final point, although we are now talking about two children from Brookmans Park primary who are not being accepted into Chancellors, there were several more who were also rejected and have had to make alternative arrangements.
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2002, 07:51:53 pm »
Mike

I know that Chancellors do not specifically 'select' on academic ability, although they do take 10 percent for artistic/sporting and 10 percent for technical skills. However, I also know that they do ask for a copy of every child's year 5 report who applies. Why else would they want this, if not to check the potential of the child?

So following your argument, if they are not selecting the remaining 80 percent on academic ability, what possible reason would they have for extending their catchment area to a much wider one?

It's not only pupils from West of Bluebridge Road who don't seem to get in. I know one family from Brookmans Avenue who didn't get a place a few years ago, and even this year, one family who live around the top of Moffats Lane originally didn't get a place, and you can't get much nearer to the school as the crow  flies than that.

Although I am quite willing to support a petition if it ever reaches my house, I rather negatively do not think that it will have any effect at all. As someone who has worked, and is still working within the education system I know it is just not as simple as 'just letting one or more pupils in'.

To be honest, if people want to see a real change in the school admissions policy, I personally think it needs to come from the top - ie the government. I personally think that the sooner the status of league tables are downgraded, the sooner schools don't have to worry so much about expelling children because it makes them look bad, and the sooner OFSTED is morphed into something less demanding on the teachers, the better our educational system and schools will become. Until that happens, I honestly don't think that however much parental pressure there is Chancellors will change their admissions policy, because of all the external pressures on them to do well.

Cheers,

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

MikeL

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2002, 08:05:59 pm »
Sorry James, can’t agree. If Chancellors was under the local authority for it’s admissions policy, this situation probably wouldn’t have arisen as they do at least seem to favour the local children. BUT Chancellors is a Foundation school and as such can do more or less what it likes, providing it has told the government what it is going to do. Why they have extended their catchment area, who knows but it is not for “smarter” pupils. As for the year 5 report, I don’t believe they even read them.

As well as being for the two children, the petition is also  aimed at getting Chancellors to review it’s admittance criteria so this situation doesn’t arise again

I’ve just re-read my copy of the selection criteria for Chancellors, and if I’m not mistaken then after places have been allocated to siblings, children good at sport, children good at music and children with special needs, the remainder of the places are divided up equally between all the feeder schools. At each feeder school, the places are then allocated to the children who live closest to Chancellors.

This means that in future, the way to ensure your child gets accepted at Chancellors is to live in Brookmans Park but send them to primary school as far away as possible!


Conversation overheard on a train a few weeks ago (While it wasn’t moving!):

“Excuse me, aren’t you a governor at Chancellors school?”
“Yes”
“Is it true that 12 children from BP Primary have been refused a place there?”
“Yes, that’s right. It’s time the local people realised they can’t just take us for granted”

One wonders how not to take hem for granted. Envelopes stuffed with tenners perhaps?

Mike
 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2002, 08:17:33 pm »
This has evolved into a very interesting thread, one which for once I am not quallified to profess upon :)
However it demonstrates the shambles that a simple thing such as Education has become :'(
There is talk of ability in sport, music, arts etc but we appear to have a society where a lot of school leavers cannot string a sentance together or perform basic maths.
Sad very sad to see people who really are on the same side at variance, all caused by divisive government.
regards,
jet
 

trade

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2002, 10:46:01 pm »
Is there any way the petition can be posted on this site for those who don't get to the school?

It certainly is a disgrace that the best way to get a Chancellors place is to drive your children to a primary school in Potters Bar.

I hear children at Cranborne Primary ended up with more Chancellors places than Mount Grace.

With Owen's being so selective what choice do the locals realistically have??
 

Offline MC

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2002, 02:37:37 am »
The situation around here re schools is totally outrageous. I say around here because while people I know in other areas do have some problems they are nothing compared to the biased lottery here.

The whole process is a farce made worse by the fact that it hides itself behind the contention that it is giving parents choice.

For primary schools, parents put down the school of choice which by definition is the nearest school or the better school some distance away if the local one is poor. Since everyone must be doing this it follows that anyone's second choice is fairly pointless since it will also have been chosen by others who are closer. Therefore if you don't get into your 1st choice I would say you are even less likely to get into the 2nd or 3rd choices.

Thus children end up getting assigned to hopeless schools that are miles away when theere is a perfectly good school nearby.

If it's bad for primary schools it is evidently worse for secondary schools. It is insanse. On the one hand there are traffic issues but then at the same time a system is promoted where children are required to travel often vast distances often during the rush hour. Plus I fail to see how they can have many local friends given the catchment areas.

I went to Owens. It was supposed to be a local school. It appalls me how all this has changed and how little sense there is regarding education in this area.

This is another example of something where a resients association could take some type of action.

MC






 

Offline anna

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Chancellor's
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2002, 02:50:00 pm »
A wondered if we could use this forum to discuss the problem of children not getting into their local school.

If more local children could go to school, it would reduce traffic.

Secondly, there would much better community support for the school.

Thirdly, this is the bigger problem. If the school keep taking from outside the area.......the siblings get automatic entry. We could infact end up with a situation, that hardly anyone from this area gets into the school because its full of siblings from outside the area.

I think distance from the school is about fifth on the criteria list. Perhaps someone will know more about this than me.

It would be much nicer to see children walking to school, reduce coaches and cars. The children themselves would have friends in the area. Again instead of more cars on the road having to take their children to friends outside the area, the children could walk.

Please give your thoughts...........perhaps we can use this forum to fight for the right to get our kids into the local school. And for those without children this will benifit you too, less traffic!

I know there is a petition going around at the moment. Lets join the fight!
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Chancellor's
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2002, 03:20:32 pm »
My children are too young for secondary school at present, however this whole issue deeply concerns me.

A friends daughter was turned down in her application although lived in Bluebridge Road and attended the primary school. She was later accepted on appeal. However to say the parents were outraged is an understatement and I completely agree that the whole principle of local schools NOT being for local children is totally wrong, illogical and unfair.

Many years ago I heard of an instance (way before the current admission policy) where a BP child did not get into Chancellors for some reason. On the first day of the term the parents took the child to Chancellors and said to the headmaster that the school must take them and refused to leave until the issue was sorted out. Apparently this was a success and the child was at Chancellors until leaving age. So perhaps direct action of this sort might be a last resort if all else fails.

I'd be happy to sign any petition in support of a change in policy as this wll affect my children in 5 years time.
 

Offline anna

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Re: Chancellor's
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2002, 03:26:21 pm »
I will talk to the people running the petition, and see if I can do one to represent this site as well.  This year, 3 children that I know of didn't get in, and they lived in Georges Wood Road, and Mymms Drive.  I know two got in on appeal, but there is still one who has not been accepted.  Its very scary.
 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2002, 05:21:54 pm »
I agree entirely Anna, although I don't have children I do feel that there is enough pressure nowadays without them having to travel for miles.
Common sense dictates that all children in BP should go to BP schools as a priority, however it sems to me that some people actually send their children out of the area by choice?
This is where the populus actually ruins it for themselves in most things, just think about travel to work is it really worth doing 60+ hours a week, travelling say 200+ miles, to pay a mortgage for a place you only sleep in and then farm your children out while you work at a cost of only slightly less than your pay after tax. Then wondering why the kids are a bit disfunctional.
Not a lot of grey matter out there at the moment.
regards,
jet
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Offline tigger

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2002, 06:10:21 pm »
Quote
This has evolved into a very interesting thread, one which for once I am not quallified to profess upon


Why did you then?  :)
The wonderful thing about tiggers is that I'm the only one!
 

Offline jet

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2002, 08:40:19 pm »
Dear Tigger,
I put a smiley next to it like you did.
What I meant was that I had an uninformed opinion.
Hope that clarifies it, my command of the language is poor due to a restricted education so you will have to make allowances for a poor old duffer and have more respect for your elders ;) I have waited 50 years to say that :) :) :) :)
regards,
jet
P.S. be carefull out there as there are Pumas and Orange LLamas at large ;)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2002, 08:41:36 pm by jet »
 

Offline anna

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2002, 09:57:27 pm »
TO ALL,  I have picked up an empty sheet from one of the ladies in charge of the petition.  I am local in Brookmans Park. If anyone wants to sign the petition I would be happy for you come here and sign it, or if possible I will try to come to you.


I know  that they want this completed by early next week...........lets see if we can fill a sheet from people on this website!!!

Please msg me privately if you want my address.

WE REALLY NEED TO PULL TOGETHER AND SUPPORT THIS CAUSE AND HELP THESE KIDS.
 

Offline MC

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2002, 03:52:52 pm »
Somebody went door to door in our street so we've already signed.

Good luck with the effort though
 

Offline The Orange Llama

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2002, 07:31:56 pm »
Quote
Dear Tigger,
be carefull out there as there are Pumas and Orange LLamas at large ;)


Rest assured, this Llama does not include Tiggers in his dietary requirements. I prefer to concentrate on more mundane food, although on behalf of the residents of Brookmans Park are thinking of taking up a diet of Chancellors Governors, Speeding Motorists and householders who have large skips outside their houses....

Sincerely Yours,

OL
The Orange Llama - looking at life from an alternative viewpoint since 1902
 

chazz

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2002, 07:56:01 pm »
Just a quick message to say that the pupil who got turned  down from Chancellors school has tons of petitons signed and is now sending them to the relevant people who include::

The headmaster
The governers
Admisson staff

If anyone knows or hears anything about what is going on then could you please write in here and inform us.
Thanx
chazz x
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2002, 03:06:29 pm »
My wife and I signed the petition on Tuesday evening, there appears to be massive support in favour of a change of policy.

This is one area where I really think a difference can be made, hopefully people will take notice. Next time anyone comes canvassing for my vote I'll be asking about their views on this !

 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Chancellor's admissions policy
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2002, 02:09:32 pm »
There was an article about this in this week's Welwyn Hatfield Times - the paper say they are very keen to hear from anyone else who has had trouble finding a school place for their child - see the paper for further details.

James
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Lottie

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Re: Chancellor's
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2003, 06:35:09 pm »
Hi, I attended Chancellors from 1979 - 1983 and enjoyed it enormously.  During these years the LEA tried to close us down and relocate all us kids into other schools in Hatfield/Potters Bar etc...  They didn't win then and they won't win now - keep your petition going and keep Chancellors local for local children!  We fought continously and even appeared on TV fighting the cause at the education facility in Hertford - please keep fighting.

Lise
 

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