Author Topic: Hawkshead Road Car Boot Sale Field  (Read 135740 times)

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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Hawkshead Road Car Boot Sale Field
« on: January 31, 2002, 06:04:48 pm »
 ???
The sale has been agreed for the 20 acre field on corner Bluebridge Rd / Hawkshead Rd, south of Brookmans Park.  Price paid is thought to be way above agricultural land value.  Does anyone know for certain what the intended use will be?  One rumour is quad-bike racing.  

Offline Aidan Winwood

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2002, 08:06:23 pm »
 ???

I also have been a bit pensive about that land for sale, buy know nothing more about it.  Also, does anybody know what the land either side of Bradmore Lane on the way down to Waterend is being dug up for?

Yours,
Aidan
 

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2002, 08:15:36 pm »
Yes Aidan,

BobcatUK wrote a piece about this for the North Mymms Green Belt Society Website

Here are the details...

Pipeline across the fields - The Green Belt Soc. has received several queries about the pipeline crossing Station Road, near Potterells Health Centre, and along Tollgate Road linking North Mymms with Colney Heath.

Check out the Three Valley's water authority site  - media information page item 30 Nov 2001.

In summary it says Three Valleys Water is converting a 50-year-old drinking water main, which supplies some residents in Colney Heath, into a main to carry untreated water to a new treatment plant being built at North Mymms.

When completed, water will be treated by the latest ultrafiltration method from the North Mymms plant. Some new pipework is being on a three-kilometre route across some agricultural fields, over two minor rivers and under the A1(M).

Specialist techniques will be employed at the river crossings to minimise disturbance to their banks. Some work will also take place on Colney Heath Common.

The Common will remain open to the public during this work. The pipes will be installed by March 2002. The land will be returned to its original condition.

...the above was taken from the North Mymms Green Belt Society Website
« Last Edit: February 13, 2002, 09:54:12 am by admin »
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Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2002, 10:54:56 pm »
 ::)Regarding quad bike racing on the 20 acre field, I believe it was bought by the Vet College (at least, they were attempting to buy it), so I don't think they would do this sort of thing. In any case, quad bike racing would need planning consent which would probably not be granted as it is so close to residential properties and is a departure from green belt usage.
Confucius he say "a dog is for life not just for Christmas Dinner"
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2002, 07:31:46 pm »
Unfortunately the Vet College did not buy this field, according to my contact at the RVC.  The price was far in excess of the agricultural land value.  I am checking out the planning consent situation, just in case quad bike racing might be allowed, using the same law that allows car boot sales for a limited number of days.
Bobcatuk :(

Offline eric

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2002, 10:48:21 am »
One thing we can be sure of ?   That its rural character will start to deteriorate over time ...  and  then "Wouldn't it look tidier if developed with one or two houses on big plots ..."
 

Offline jet

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2002, 06:21:11 pm »
The way things are going it would be lots of large houses on small plots!
 

Offline eric

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2002, 03:14:27 pm »
Ah but look what happened up by Queenswood.   There's a planning policy loophole that allows big "special" houses to sneak through planning restraints, and this's happening in a number of places around the home counties
 

Offline Mooniemad

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2002, 05:58:28 pm »
 If so there will be away of keeping us kids off the streets.
 

Offline Mooniemad

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2002, 07:12:32 pm »
 I doubt there will be quad biking taking place at this site, as it would upset locals with the noise and disturb the farm animals who would be scared of the noise. It would also mean the site would need a car park and a safe entrance which would be hard to do on the corner.  :-\
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2002, 08:59:04 pm »
Thanks for the latest comments.  The big houses by Queenswood presumably refers to Lylsey Place on Shepherds Way.  This was the redevelopment of redundant farm buildings at Home Farm, in the same manners as Potterells, behind Potterells Health Centre on Station Road, and now 8 houses recently approved at Home Farm, North Mymms Park.  

Re Mooniemad's comments - Agreed! But the buyer of the field is reputed to have paid five times the value of agricultural land.  Not just to graze sheep, surely?  If anyone sees surveyors etc on the field, or anyone marking out anything, would they please let me know.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2002, 10:56:50 pm »
I am no lawyer – thank God – but as I understand things, you need permission to change the use of land in this area. If it was sold for 5 times the going rate then the buyer must know that they will get permission. The seller must also have known it, or the buyer would only have offered a little more than the going rate. Given that the Green Belt society is watching out for requests to change use of land and I presume haven’t heard anything, this is information which is not in the public domain. As I say, I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like something very fishy is going on.

All of this depends on the rumour of the buyer paying vastly more than market price. How reliable is this rumour?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2002, 03:03:24 pm »
The very high price is not a rumour!  Others have told me that they did bid above the agricultural value but someone bid higher.  My understanding is that it is legally possible to use land for some other temporary purpose for up to 28 days a year - this is used to allow car boot sales etc.  I cannot quote the Act of Parliament.  Do any lawyer readers know the answer?
I opened this topic so that residents are aware of the possiblility, can keep watch on the field, and let me know if anything appears to be about to happen.  Prevention is better that remedial action which can take forever.

Offline john

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2002, 04:30:04 pm »
Dear Bob
The "28 days" comes from long back as part of permitted development "rights", case law, etc.   It is now being revisited under the Planning Green Paper, but whether this means actual change one will have to wait and see.    With the profits to be made from green belt land and "non-conformity, limited enforcement capabilities, etc ... anything can happen.
If only RVC could've had its offer accepted for straightforward "farm grazing" !
Regards  -  John
 

Offline Govvy

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2002, 09:14:33 pm »
Its harder to change from green belt to anything else.

So if the land isn't green belt.

If there is any loop holes, that agricultural can be changed to residential. It would be intresting to find out. I do fear what might happen, just from listening to everyone here. It does sound worring.
 

Offline jet

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2002, 11:11:46 pm »
It is okay for agricultural to be converted to light industrial, I should imagine the failed business could then make the site "brownfield" and allow residential at a later date. Thin end of wedge and all that.
regards,
jet
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2002, 02:28:27 pm »
Once Green Belts have been defined, the use of land in them has a positive role to play in fulfilling the following objectives:
- to provide opportunities for access to the open countryside for the urban population;
- to provide opportunities for outdoor sport and outdoor recreation near urban areas;
-to retain attractive landscapes, and enhance landscape near to where people live;
- to improve damaged and derelict land around towns;
- to secure nature conservation interest; and
- to retain land in agriculture, forestry and related uses.

The above is official government policy.  You can see that it does NOT include light industry. The field is in the Green Belt, but there is a planning quirk which allows it to be used for car boot sales etc on up to 28 days a year.  The chances of it ever becoming housing land are remote but that is why the North Mymms District Green Belt Society remains vigilant in case anyone tries it on!  That is also why I posted this item in case anyone had heard anything definite about the new owner's proposals.  If you know anything and do not wish to say so on this open forum, please e-mail me on greenbelt.nm@tesco.net.
Bob Horrocks, secretary NM Green Belt Soc.

Offline jet

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2002, 02:46:30 pm »
Just to explain further.
Following BSE etc some farms found it impossible to recover.
In some instances controls have been relaxed to allow conversion of farm buildings etc to light industrial, this entails leaving the base and shell as much as possible and refurbishing the remainder.
After it looks just like an industrial estate.
I should know as I have just been involved in one.
Its the thin end of wedge, the next step is for the industry to fail and then you have a redundant brown field site, just right for the governments plans.
It is not unheard of for big business to buy land , put up a building without permission, trade for two years while their lawyers tie the council up in knots an dthen issue the ultimatum of:- we walk away and take the jobs or you give us permission. It does not matter to the company they have recovered their costs and made profit in that time.
hope this helps,
regards,
jet
P.S.  assuming the farm is in the green belt of course, but there are not many farms in built up areas?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2002, 08:54:56 pm »
Thanks JET for your additional information.  Agreed that farms are unlikely to be in built-up areas, but not all farms are in the green belt.  Farms and redundant industrial sites in the green belts are subject to restrictions not applicable elsewhere. Was the one you were involved with in a green belt?

Offline jet

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2002, 11:07:35 pm »
Rural Berkshire, livestock and arable country. A genuine farm.
I could not swear that it was green belt but I did say agricultural originally not green belt, so confess to being slightly off thread. Still changes moos into banging hammers.
This type of development was mentioned in Country File last year.
Comes under some kind of emergency powers if I recall and sets a lovelly precedent. Lovelly jubbly for the farmer as Del boy would say ;)
regards,
jet
« Last Edit: July 12, 2002, 11:10:32 pm by jet »
 

Offline john

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2002, 01:32:24 pm »
Just to let people know  -  on the general subject of "land"  -  that I/ RVC have now persuaded "Railtrack" to hand-over a small area of redundant operational land that has been causing us problems for years.   You will therefore notice that the entrance gate on the north-west side of Hawkshead Lane railway bridge is being "doubled-up" so as to cut-down on the amount of fly-tipping and worse that has been going on along the "line path".  In due course, further fencing upgrades will take place, as well as some re-ditching, reduction of undergrowth, some re-stocking, etc

regards  -  john f
 

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2003, 12:19:16 am »
Quote
???
The sale has been agreed for the 20 acre field on corner Bluebridge Rd / Hawkshead Rd, south of Brookmans Park.  Price paid is thought to be way above agricultural land value.  Does anyone know for certain what the intended use will be?  One rumour is quad-bike racing.  

As there seems to have been no change in 18 months, do I take it we don't have anything to worry about this time?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2003, 05:36:13 pm »
It remains one to keep an eye on.  In the current review of Welwyn hatfield District Plan there are 4 local areas of green Belt land which the owners wish to take out of the Green Belt and, presumably use for housing.  This is not one of them.  So it remains a mystery.  Why would someone pay well over the odds for this field?

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2003, 12:45:17 am »
Bob, could you remind us of where these four areas to be taken out of the green belt are, please. I presume one is in Welham Green.

ATG
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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2003, 12:49:37 am »
Hi Alfred,
The bullet points in this story http://www.brookmans.com/news/july03/greenbelt8.shtml list three of the areas Bob is referring to.
David
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2003, 03:31:23 pm »
Hi Alfred.  The 4 sites which the owners would like taken out of the Green Belt (but I strongly expect they will be disappointed, at least this time) at 52 acres at Marshmoor (between the railway line and A1000 north of Dixons Hill Rd), 10 acres at Skimpans Farm meadows (south of Bulls Lane between the railway and Station Road) and 2.2 acres at the very end of Welham Manor cul-de-sac.  the 4th site is on Hawkshead Road, Little Heath, being the front parts of 4 properties including Taum Farm to Osborne Farm.  
The actions of the Green Belt Soc will be in the next Chancellor's News.  Welwyn hatfield Council do not want to take any land out of the GB for housing and appreciate our actions.

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2003, 12:17:51 am »
Plans to build a ‘modern country house’, with a floor area of about 1,100 square metres, on local green belt land have been submitted to Welwyn Hatfield District Council's Planning Department.

The North Mymms District Green Belt Society (NMDGBS) is to consider whether or not to object to the building going ahead on the site, known locally as the 20-acre field.

Bob Horrocks, the Honorary Secretary of the NMDGBS, has written a report about the proposed development for this site.

Click here to read Bob's report
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Offline Mooniemad

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2003, 12:02:56 pm »
I think everyone should object to this. This is completely out of order if it is to be given permission to build such a house. How can the our local Chancellors school be refused planning permission on Green Belt Land to help improve their facilities and a house be built in a field.
 

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2003, 01:04:19 pm »
If the house is energy efficient, not unsightly, privately owned and restrictions on masts, aerials, chimneys etc, whats the problem? - How many people walk in this area?  If the building is not in the way, and cannot be seen from a public right of way, then i dont see where the damage is going to be.

Admittedly, yes, we are going to los 1100 square metres of grass and greenery, but if the house is going to be energy efficient, with its own water recycling plant, reinforced foam walls etc etc, then doesnt one counteract the other?

Perhaps it was below the belt (!!) for the school to be refused permission to develop their facilities, but thats what the appeal procedure is for.  If the house gets the go ahead, then there is good grounds for appeal. ;)

TF.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: 20 acre field
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2003, 01:41:49 pm »
The whole point of the Green Belt is to prevent the loss of the open countryside that we all enjoy, and part of the pleasure of living here.  Green Belt policies work!  But only if local people fight to uphold them.

This summer the Green Belt Soc worked hard to make everyone aware of proposals to put housing on three sites adjacent to Welham Green.  On one of these sites at Marshmoor, a 50 acre site (two and a half times the size of Friday Grove) the owners want to build over 500 houses.  Over 900 people objected and we will know in Spring 2004 if  their effort was successful.  

In the meantime, Friday Grove is our immediate issue.  The simple fact is that this house does not comply with GreenBelt policies.  But your comments on this website will be unknown by Welwyn Hatfield Council.  It is very important to given your comments to that Council.  You can see the plans during normal business hours at the Council offices, located between Waitrose and Campus West at WGC.  

The council must receive your comments by 16 January 2004. Address them to the Chief Planning Officer, Welwyn Hatfield Council, Council Offices, Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, AL8 6AE, quoting their reference S6/2003/1701/FP (Mrs Reynolds).

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