Introducing 20 mph speed limits in Brookmans Park

[larrylamb]

There is growing momentum to introduce 20mph speed limits on all residential roads (Living Streets policy briefing 02/09) across all areas of the UK.

I would be interested in local views on this, personally i think it is right and proper, especially on roads without pavements.

[Albert Ross]

20 mph is too slow and almost impossible to keep to in modern day cars. If you drive with due care and attention it should not be necessary to impose such a silly ilimit. If I see children or anybody that looks like a risk I slow down without being told to do so. Anyway, hardly anybody keeps to the existng limits so lowering them more would have little or no effect as it is impossible to police. It's peoples attitude that needs altering, not the speed limit!

[sasquartch]

introduce 20mph speed limits on all residential roads

What's a residential road though ? The A1000 ?

It might be a good idea in some areas, perhaps near primary schools, but as Albert Ross says, difficult to enforce and impractical in many cases.

[larrylamb]

20 mph is too slow and almost impossible to keep to in modern day cars. If you drive with due care and attention it should not be necessary to impose such a silly ilimit. If I see children or anybody that looks like a risk I slow down without being told to do so. Anyway, hardly anybody keeps to the existng limits so lowering them more would have little or no effect as it is impossible to police. It's peoples attitude that needs altering, not the speed limit!

what about the child that runs into your path from knowwhere, that you havent seen, a person who is struck at 30mph has a 80% chance of survival, at 20mph this increases to 97%.

There is a policy briefing by a charity called "living streets" available to download, if anyone gets the chance i urge them to read it, once read it may change your view on this Albert.

people who use excessive speed are rarely justified, a police officer once said to me "people always think driving at inappropriate speeds is ok until someone they care for is killed by a speeding driver.

I have not trouble driving any number of vehicles at 20mph, it is in their design.

[Ferdie]

There is a policy briefing by a charity called "living streets" available to download, if anyone gets the chance i urge them to read it, once read it may change your view on this Albert.

Possibly to help the debate a link to the policy briefing to which LarryLamb refers can be found at http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/library/Policy_briefings/20mphpolicybriefing240911.pdf

[larrylamb]

There is a policy briefing by a charity called "living streets" available to download, if anyone gets the chance i urge them to read it, once read it may change your view on this Albert.

Possibly to help the debate a link to the policy briefing to which LarryLamb refers can be found at http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/library/Policy_briefings/20mphpolicybriefing240911.pdf

Yes thankyou Ferdie.

[Albert Ross]

Nothing changes my view on this because as I previously stated just putting a 20mph sign up will not make people drive at this speed so is a waste of public money. I do keep to the limits and I slow down considerably if I see children or infirm pedestrians which is all common sense. Making long stretches of road 20mph will just frustrate drivers and make them more likely to speed. Perhaps more emphasis should be aimed at educating children not to cross roads in a dangerous manor therefore alleviating most of the problem. Maybe dedicated raised crossing places would be a better answer.

[BrookyP]

20 mph-good idea-always stick to that in local roads where possible.

bp

[John_fraser]

Making long stretches of road 20mph will just frustrate drivers and make them more likely to speed. Perhaps more emphasis should be aimed at educating children not to cross roads in a dangerous manor therefore alleviating most of the problem. Maybe dedicated raised crossing places would be a better answer.

Educating children not to cross roads in a dangerous manor, what a truly brilliant idea. Such a good idea that from the day a child first learns to walk every parent spends every day trying to do just that. Sadly children are children and it takes time (years!) for them to learn this. As every parent will know, the parent only has to turn their back of five seconds and a child will drop their toy into the road, see a friendly cat on the other side or run off in a temper tantrum and run into the road.

Of course educating drivers, who are adults, to slow down to 20mph and not become frustrated like a two year old refused sweets isn't going to happen. The seconds or minutes a driver saves by going faster is more important than the years or decades lost by the victim of a RTA.

[Albert Ross]

So basically, what we are saying is, there is nothing we can do. Parents are unable to keep children under control, the motorists is committed to saving time and not lives and the police have insufficient funds to enforce the law. Might as well leave things as they are then and save money putting up new signs.

[larrylamb]

So basically, what we are saying is, there is nothing we can do. Parents are unable to keep children under control, the motorists is committed to saving time and not lives and the police have insufficient funds to enforce the law. Might as well leave things as they are then and save money putting up new signs.

I take it that you havent had a chance to read the "living streets" policy then?

[John_fraser]

Children are children and can be expected not to always do the correct thing all the time; Parents are human and can be expected to be distracted at timed; Motorists are human too and can be expected to act in their own best interests unless educated to the dangers they pose to others and 'encouraged' to limit the risks via physical means or via threat of punishment via fines.

Signs on their own will limit the speed of some or most drivers. Enforcement of the limit will reduce the speed of most.

[Albert Ross]

Putting 40mph signs up along Station Road has made no difference as far as I can see; I travel this stretch twice a day, at the prescribed speed limits, and am regularly tailgated or on the odd occasion even overtaken. The only way of enforcing a 20mph limit would be with traffic calming measures and do we really want more humps? 

[John_fraser]

Signs on their own will limit the speed of some or most drivers.

I travel this stretch twice a day, at the prescribed speed limits

So you agree with me.

Enforcement of the limit will reduce the speed of most.

The only way of enforcing a 20mph limit would be with traffic calming measures and do we really want more humps? 

Sounds like you still agree with me, although there are additional means to slow traffic.

[LongTallSally]

I cannot see whats wrong with having a 20mph!

Surely, a motorist increases the risk to a pedestrian. Although the risk may be small with a conscientious driver, it is still much higher than if their car wasn't on the road.

As the motorist is capable of inflicting far more damage on the pedestrian than the pedestrian on the motorist, I would have thought it was up to the motorist to take action to mitigate the risk they have created.

[Mermaid]

I'm all in favour of a 20mph limit around the village, I rarely do much more than that anyway with the schools, parked cars both sides and speed bumps. Personally I don't have much sympathy with drivers who argue that their performance cars can't go that slowly and that they are such fabulous drivers that it doesn't matter if they exceed the limits!

[Albert Ross]

Nobody was asking for sympathy, Larrylamb just asked for opinions but as usual it turns into something more involved. I have added a poll which is perhaps the easiest way of seeing what the majority want without digging at each other.

[Ferdie]

Putting 40mph signs up along Station Road has made no difference as far as I can see; I travel this stretch twice a day, at the prescribed speed limits, and am regularly tailgated or on the odd occasion even overtaken. The only way of enforcing a 20mph limit would be with traffic calming measures and do we really want more humps?

As so often it is the minority of individuals who do this that cost the rest of us a lot of money and inconvenience. Once again, we need to use a sledge hammer to crack a nut. 

[Alex]

There is nothing wrong with the current speed limits. Lets move on!

[NMLHS]

It might well be a good idea but is it enforceable? The 30 mph limit is regularly ignored so 20 mph will be ignored by even more people.  It works in narrow streets but most of the roads in BP are too wide.

The safest thing but too expensive in wages would be to reduce the limit to 4 mph and bring back a team of people to escort vehicles through the village with red flags (don't laugh, it will come). 

Edited only to correct smiley code

[larrylamb]

It might well be a good idea but is it enforceable? The 30 mph limit is regularly ignored so 20 mph will be ignored by even more people.  It works in narrow streets but most of the roads in BP are too wide.

The safest thing but too expensive in wages would be to reduce the limit to 4 mph and bring back a team of people to escort vehicles through the village with red flags (don't laugh, it will come). 

Edited only to correct smiley code

Drivers do not consider their speed based on safety, only on the chances of being prosecuted.

[Editor]

Drivers do not consider their speed based on safety, only on the chances of being prosecuted.

That is a massive generalisation. I base my speed on safety. 

[Mermaid]

Drivers do not consider their speed based on safety, only on the chances of being prosecuted.

That is a massive generalisation. I base my speed on safety.

And so do I and quite a few other drivers I know. Not everyone is looking to 'get away with' what they can.

[sasquartch]

These days a lot of drivers base their speed on economy as well as safety.

The difference to me driving home from work at 80mph against 60mph is probably a few minutes at most - yet a big saving in fuel, as well as a safer, less stressful journey.

So, I agree with the last two posters.

[John_fraser]

I think Larry's got a point. If I'm in a hurry I might well drive over the limit and keep an eye out for police and cameras. I know that's wrong, but I bet most drivers when late for an important meeting or a flight will do the same. Therefore, while I like to drive at a safe speed I am deterred from speeding more my the threat of a fine than by the dangers of speeding.

[Editor]

I think Larry's got a point. If I'm in a hurry I might well drive over the limit and keep an eye out for police and cameras. I know that's wrong, but I bet most drivers when late for an important meeting or a flight will do the same. Therefore, while I like to drive at a safe speed I am deterred from speeding more my the threat of a fine than by the dangers of speeding.

Sure, for some that might be the deterrent, but not for all.

[larrylamb]

I see that 20 mph limits are being introduced around residential areas of Welham Green, I would like to see this extended to BP.

[Editor]

I see that 20 mph limits are being introduced around residential areas of Welham Green, I would like to see this extended to BP.

The last time we were in Liverpool we noticed that the speed limit for most built up areas is now 20mph. At first it feels slow, but once you get used to it, it's okay. You just tend to allow extra time for trips. And I didn't sense aggressive drivers pressurising me from behind, which I do occasionally find when driving along Georges Wood Road and observing the 20mph limit.

But Larry, could you reconsider the "No Excuses" signs on GWR? They just comes across as unwelcoming, threatening and, quiet frankly, meaningless.

 

[Alex]

 
Agreed "no Excuses" means go faster!!!

Alex

[Nobby]

I'd be happy if drivers observed the current 30mph speed limit on Bluebridge Road, particularly the boy racers at night.