Poll

Should all dogs be kept on the lead in Gobions?

Yes
10 (31.3%)
No
21 (65.6%)
Don't know
1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: May 07, 2014, 07:20:48 am

Author Topic: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions  (Read 40398 times)

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Offline Chungdokwan

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2014, 03:41:15 pm »
Time this topic was archived. It creates an entirely false impression of packs of wild canines roaming North Mymms, which is far from the case.

The Beast of Brookmans Park (Tiddles, a pussy cat) will be back next.
 

Offline Angel

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2014, 06:19:59 pm »
Well, it's the reason I don't go to Gobions I'm afraid, I find uncontrolled dogs very scary and I'm not interested in being told "it's ok, it won't hurt you"
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2014, 08:14:22 pm »
Time this topic was archived. It creates an entirely false impression of packs of wild canines roaming North Mymms, which is far from the case.

Dogs running out of control in Gobions is a current and ongoing issue and, therefore, not one to be archived.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2014, 06:55:20 pm »
Walking with my dog is good for both me and my dog. Walking without my dog is a bit lonely and a bit pointless.

Tiddles (not her real name) is in her basket. I have told her not to scare the population of Brookmans Park. She's not scared of my dog. She weighs 2Kg, he weighs 30Kg. He is more gentle than she is.

Hysteria, Definition: unmanageable emotional excesses. We'll have rabies being reported next, or werewolves. or vampires, or zombies.

Woof!





Brilliant. Made me smile. I knew it was right not to archive this thread. If I had done so we'd all have missed such wonderful humour.  :)
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Offline mannyd

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2014, 09:46:00 pm »
Made me smile....BUT..... I have a son who was scared by a loose dog in Gobions at the age of 3 - he's now 9 and only just comfortable with dogs again. My tiny 6yr old daughter loves dogs, but even a medium sized loose dog is way past her waist! So humour...great....but reality is that loose dogs scare people, barking/jumping loose dogs can cause 6 years of misery for kids too frightened to walk in their own woods....
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2014, 07:16:10 am »
So humour...great....but reality is that loose dogs scare people, barking/jumping loose dogs can cause 6 years of misery for kids too frightened to walk in their own woods....

Totally agree. I don't think the dog owners who let their animals run out of control realise how frightening it can be. I also agree with Angel who wrote:

Well, it's the reason I don't go to Gobions I'm afraid, I find uncontrolled dogs very scary and I'm not interested in being told "it's ok, it won't hurt you"

People have said that to me a number of times. How can they possibly know?

I think it's time we had signs in both the council run area and the wildlife trust area insisting that all dogs are kept on the lead.

I have added a poll at the top of this thread.  ^^^

David
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2014, 08:03:42 am »
A reminder of the existing North Mymms Parish Council bylaws on dogs being kept "under proper control" which, clearly, some are not. Gobions Wood is adjacent to the Open Space but is managed by the Herts and Middlesex Wildlife Trust.







I've tweeted to try to encourage more people to vote in the poll.

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Offline James Bentall

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2014, 09:25:24 am »
Personally I am not in favour of forcing all dogs to be on leads in Gobions. Why should the majority of people be punished for the few who spoil it for others? I would encourage people however to make reports to the relevant authorities if they are ever faced with a situation they are uncomfortable with as was posted higher up the thread.
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline Angel

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2014, 11:19:46 am »
Perhaps there could be designated areas where dogs have to be on leads (with signs up) and also areas where dogs can run free (also with signs so that people like me could avoid them!)
 

Offline Chungdokwan

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2014, 06:17:43 pm »
My aunt kept geese. Honk, honk, honk they would go. They were really scary. They used to chase me round her garden. The family decided to to eat them.

And James, you no longer speak with forked tongue. Thank you.

Woof! Woof!
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2014, 08:45:40 pm »
My aunt kept geese. Honk, honk, honk they would go. They were really scary. They used to chase me round her garden. The family decided to to eat them.

And James, you no longer speak with forked tongue. Thank you.

Woof! Woof!


Hi Chungdokwan, I am not sure it's helpful to attempt to use humour to trivialise real fears. There is a problem. Large dogs are running out of control and people in our community are afraid of them. You may feel there is not a problem, but others, including me, have had large animals run up snarling and snapping and the owners doing absolutely nothing about it other than blame the victims for over reacting. So, although you might find it funny to make light of the problem, please understand that such comments are extremely annoying for those who have suffered from this. David
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2014, 06:09:16 am »
And you should understand that you are lumping all dog owners together and trying to put all dogs on leads.  99% of the people I meet walking my dogs are lovely people with well behaved dogs who all pick up after their animals.  Yes there are a few ignorant idiots but why should they be allowed to spoil things for everyone else.
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2014, 07:37:27 am »
And you should understand that you are lumping all dog owners together and trying to put all dogs on leads.  99% of the people I meet walking my dogs are lovely people with well behaved dogs who all pick up after their animals.  Yes there are a few ignorant idiots but why should they be allowed to spoil things for everyone else.

Hi saffie, no that is not correct, I am not lumping all together. I totally agree that the majority of the dog owners are responsible and their pets are well behaved. However, there is a minority who let aggressive dogs run free. And there needs to be a solution before someone is hurt. Had it not been for the fact that I wear walking boots, I would have had teeth marks in my ankle on one occasion recently. A child might not have the same protection. That dog was a small terrier. The poll I added to the site asks the question "Should all dogs be kept on the lead in Gobions?". So far, 64% think not. Fair enough. However, in the case of the NMPC's Gobions Open Space, the by-law that states that animals should be "kept under proper control and be effectively restrained from causing annoyance to any person", a by-law which is clearly being ignored by some. The summer is coming, children will be playing. It seems that all we can do is take retrospective action.

North Mymms Parish Council received a report about a dog acting aggressively at Gobions yesterday. The Parish Clerk called the police on the non emergency 101 number and was advised that...
  • If the dog is actually attacking someone call 999 immediately
  • If the dog is causing concern or to report a less urgent incident that has happened call 101.  The police will ask for a description of the dog, location, what occurred and time it happened.
  • If it is a stray dog running around then it is the responsibility of the dog warden at Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council.

This course of action is supported by law (please see link and screen grab from link below).

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview



So from now on, as advised above, those who experience such incidents should take a description of the dog and its owner, note the time and place the incident happened, call the police and submit a report about the dog AND its owner. (Screen grab from page below)



And I will do that the next time I feel threatened. However, it seems a massive waste of police time if the problem could be solved by the irresponsible minority following the example of the responsible majority.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2014, 07:06:23 pm »
I don't think anyone would (or could) disagree with the not letting dogs injure someone. I also don't think anyone would disagree with not letting a dog behave in a way that would cause a rational  person to have a reasonable worry that they could be injured. Although defining 'rational' and 'reasonable' isn't simple. As such, the last section of the post is just "motherhood and apple pie" i.e. it is obvious, there is nothing to disagree, it doesn't advance the discussion and is therefore pointless.

I am not a dog owner or a dog lover and have never owned a dog, but I think people should be able to exercise their dogs off the leash. Dogs always seem happier if they are given a good run, and IMHO proper exercise will result in less neurotic and aggressive animals. Yes, dog owners need to behave responsibly, but so does anyone using any public facility. The park is there for the dog owners as well as the walkers.
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2014, 07:01:55 am »
I completely agree John, from the tone of some of these posts you would think a pack of rabid wolves were roaming Gobions!!! 

I am a dog owner and have had both my dogs attacked by other small dogs.  It is about educating people about what is responsible ownership, not raking away their rights to let their dogs off the leads.  If something happens to my dogs while out walking I won't hesitate to tell the other owner.
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2014, 07:11:00 am »
I am a dog owner and have had both my dogs attacked by other small dogs.  It is about educating people about what is responsible ownership, not raking away their rights to let their dogs off the leads.

I am sorry to hear that your dogs have been attacked, Saffie. That must have been distressing. And I agree it's about educating people, but how? I stopped walking in Gobions because of this issue, and only ventured back recently because I wanted to see the spring flowers - and that was a mistake because it happened again. So what can we do so that the place is safe for both those who want to exercise their dogs and those who want to enjoy the countryside without being snarled and snapped at by animals that are clearly not being controlled by a minority of dog owners?

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2014, 11:28:45 am »
I have a vested interest here.
I am a dog owner. My dog is execised every day in Gobions (whatever the weather or the season) and is always off the lead.
He is well trained, completely obedient and 'friendly' to anyone he meets.
We have never failed to'pick up'(sic.) after him.
As John points out; no one will argue to the contrary that dog's mess is not a problem in the 'Open Space' or that large agressive dogs are unwelcome.
When I am on my own with my dog I pick up any litter that I come across. In fact I'd wager that if it were not for my actions the problems that we all encounter woud be far worse. If owners are ignorant enough to not pick up after their dog or to control them effectively no unenforcable ban will change that. In fact the problem will be worse as I won't go to Gobions any more with my dog and quite frankly pick up everyone else's 'cr*p'.
Here's the problem .. if we are to ban dogs on certain areas of the Open Space due to the anti-social nature of a few and their owners then what are we going to do about teenagers and their parents ? Should they all be banned too ?
We live at the the ' top end' of Bluebridge Ave. and most summer evenings I go into the 'first field' and pick up all the accumulated cr*p left by teenagers (many of whom I know or are easily identifiable due to their loacal uniforms). So it's a double whammy along with the dog mess.This includes bottles , cans and worse. On a couple of occasions I have been threatened and several times I have had minor verbal abuse. We have had bottles smashed in the road, cars vandalised etc. The police are usually very helpful .
In the interests of consistency should all local teenagers be banned from the Open Space and all parents have their freeedoms limited because of the bahaviour of a few ?
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2014, 04:50:31 pm »
Hi Southbury, my pal in the village owns a staffie called Buster. When he was younger he looked a real thug (Buster, not my pal).  But I got to know him during our walks through Gobions and across the fields to the pub. My pal kept Buster on the lead when there were other dogs around, or when people approached because Buster is an enthusiast. Other times he was let off the lead to get a bit of a run. If he had run on ahead too far, all my pal had to do was shout his name. Buster would turn to stone on the spot, wait to have his harness fitted, and then tug us onwards towards our destination. He was extremely well trained, impeccably behaved and superbly managed by his owner. Sadly, Buster is too old now to make the round trip: I really do miss those walks with him leading the way. And it was on those walks that I saw how happy a well-managed dog can be, and what pleasure it is to be with an owner and animal that have developed such an understanding.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2014, 04:17:59 pm »
I think you might be unlucky and attracting the wrong types of dogs!!! 

I have walked in Gobions for over 9 years with my dogs and only had a few incidents with dogs and I have dogs so i would think am more likely to attract unwanted attention. 

I have had more incidents with the fishermen!!
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2014, 09:41:29 am »
The voting in our poll entitled "should all dogs be kept on the lead in Gobions" closed last week. A screen grab of the result is below. You can still see the poll by scrolling to the top of the page. 21 people (65.6%) voted no, 10 people (31.3%) voted yes, and one person (3.1%) didn't know. 31 of our 1,241 registered forum members took part in the poll.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2014, 11:15:42 pm »
Message from Hertfordshire Constabulary OWL (Online Watch Link)

Dear Watch Member,

On Thursday 5 June a woman and her dog were attacked by another dog in Gobions Wood, Brookmans Park.

The dog, described as a muscular chocolate brown Staffordshire bull terrier cross breed, attacked the woman's dog pinning him down. When she tried to intervene, the dog then went for her causing damage on the arm and leg.

If anyone knows of this dog and its owner please call Police Community Support Officer Samantha Griffin on 01707 354192 or contact via email at samantha (dot) griffin (at) herts (dot) pnn (dot) police (dot) uk

[Email address disguised to deter spambots]
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 07:07:01 am by David Brewer »
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2014, 07:45:21 am »
This post will eventually be merged, for contextual reasons, with an existing thread on Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2014, 09:02:50 am »
Hertfordshire police are still eager to speak to a young man who attempted to get the dog that carried out last weekís attack in Gobions on the lead after the incident. They are asking for anyone who might have seen the attack, or who recognised the young man who was trying to restrain his dog, to get in touch. Police say itís important people come forward because they say they donít want another dog attack.

You can contact Police Community Support Officer Samantha Griffin on 01707 354192, leave a message if she is busy, or contact her via email at samantha (dot) griffin (at) herts (dot) pnn (dot) police (dot) uk. She will get back to you.

David

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2014, 07:35:49 am »
This tweet popped up this morning so I thought it worth sharing in this thread because it has some relevance to earlier discussions.

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2014, 11:28:04 am »
"... however even if the dog does not bite, but gives the person grounds to feel that the dog may injure them ...".  Well that is open to a considerable degree of interpretation. 

(a) A muzzled dog held tight on a lead that runs towards a child might be construed as dangerous by an anxious parent even if there is no "intent" to injure.

(b) If my dog, which is *always* on a lead, is taken by surprise by someone else's dog running up behind it and she turns around and snarls then is my dog out of control? 

I truly understand the need to have law over dogs that are aggressive and not controlled but loose legislation is poor legislation.  You might also need to apply such legislation to goats, ducks, cats, crows, ...
 

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