Poll

Should all dogs be kept on the lead in Gobions?

Yes
10 (31.3%)
No
21 (65.6%)
Don't know
1 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: May 07, 2014, 07:20:48 am

Author Topic: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions  (Read 38335 times)

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Offline PS

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2010, 01:25:26 pm »
Unfortunately - very true.

Perhaps other solutions need to be considered - and I don't know what (short of the obvious that wouldn't be allowed to be printed)
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2010, 04:05:34 pm »
Thanks Bob, I posted pictures of that notice earlier in the thread.  
David

Looking at the images of the Byelaws it reminded me that they are also appropriate for the recreational grounds on Hawkshead Lane, Lttle Heath, but that land was acquired after the NMPC Byelaws were written.  It would not make sense to spend money on extending the coverage.

Offline Jasper

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2010, 09:13:52 pm »
I don't think a ban is necessary. We just need the few dog owners who let their animals run uncontrolled to realise that it is not fair on those who find their dogs intimidating. Perhaps a forum like this will help them understand that not everyone loves their dogs.

For my part, I will avoid the area. The alternative would be to take a large stick and hit out at any dog that I felt was threatening me.

David

I am rather surprised by the Witch hunt of big dogs. All dog owners should be responsible as should non dog owners. My god, "hit a dog with a stick", do we apply the same mentality to youths dressed as hoodies, whom may be too loud and cause discomfort by their mere presence? I have met the said Blood Hounds and can report that they are far less intimidating and far more gentle than say labradors half their size. They bare no menace and where exeptionaly gentle around both my small children and much smaller dogs.
 
Gobians is a wonderfull natural setting and should be enjoyed by all and I, for one feel in general all dog owners whom use the space are very genuine and responsible. I am sorry if those whom complain, are not dog lovers or predudice to large dogs, but we must apply common sense, otherwise before we know it, birds will be banned from singing and children from their expressing delight, just in case they may offend.

 ???
 
 
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2010, 10:02:02 pm »
Hi Jasper,

Welcome to the forum. I am not prejudiced against dogs or dog owners. If you read earlier posts you may notice I have suggested ways in which we could all enjoy Gobions both dog owners and those who don't own dogs. It is just that large dogs running free are intimidating to some.  I have solved the problem by walking elsewhere because I have had too many bad experiences with unruly dogs and owners who seem to fail to understand how anyone could feel anything but love for their animals.

David
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Offline Jasper

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2010, 10:28:06 pm »
Hi Jasper,

Welcome to the forum. I am not prejudiced against dogs or dog owners. If you read earlier posts you may notice I have suggested ways in which we could all enjoy Gobions both dog owners and those who don't own dogs. It is just that large dogs running free are intimidating to some.  I have solved the problem by walking elsewhere because I have had too many bad experiences with unruly dogs and owners who seem to fail to understand how anyone could feel anything but love for their animals.

David

Hello David,
I do not think you should have to walk elsewhere and perhaps owners will take note and ensure their dogs are better behaved, hopefully this thread will help the situation. When out in a resteraunt, i do not think other people should have to put up with my childrens behavior, so my children are well behaved, as should dogs, be when out in public places.

 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2010, 06:48:06 am »
Hi Jasper,

Yes, I agree, I think it is just being sensitive to others and respect their rights to enjoy Gobions - and it works in all ways.

David
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Offline MikeL

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2010, 06:02:02 pm »
I've been walking my dog in Gobions for well over 12 years now and have had labrador sized dogs in my household since I was born (well over 50 years). I certainly don't feel intimidated by large dogs. But having edured attacks (and yes I do mean attacks) in Gobions by totally out of control large dogs in the last couple of weeks (in this case three St Bernards) I totally agree with Dave. Remonstrations with the owner are met with a threatening mouthful of abuse. It's very easy to track the route taken by this "pack" by the giant steaming mountains of excrement they leave behind. As I'm sure anyone walking along the west path recently has noticed.

Jasper, a stick is the very least of the weapons you need to fend of these dogs when they attack yours, beleive me. These are not lovely misunderstood creatures as you seem to imply. Perhaps they would be individually, but when in a pack (there are also other non aggressive dogs with them) they are totally out of control.

I don't  know what the solution is, but I'm sure reasoned debate with the owner is unlikely to work.
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2010, 03:26:41 pm »
I've heard about this owner too, an abusive man, who threatens other dog owners with violence if they dare to protest when his dogs attack theirs.

Perhaps you could have a word with our PCSOs and see what they suggest?
 

Offline Tailspin

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2010, 08:31:28 am »
Whilst its the dogs that cause the problems, it is the irresponsible owners that allow their dogs to do this.  This weekend, a dog on a long lead, came onto my property and urinated over the head-light and bumper of my daughters car.  When asked, the owner said it's what dogs do naturally.

If ever I heard such............well lets just leave it there.

Dog owners should take more control of their animals and have more respect for others around them.
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2010, 10:12:42 am »
When asked, the owner said it's what dogs do naturally.

If ever I heard such............well lets just leave it there.

Dog owners should take more control of their animals and have more respect for others around them.

That is why we no longer visit Gobions (which is sad because it was one of the reasons we moved here). Walking in The Great Wood, Northaw, is much nicer.  Yesterday several large dogs came close in order to sniff us, but were not running at us, did not growl at us and the owners (who were close, too) were clearly in control and their pets knew it.

In fact, meeting lolloping labs and scatty spaniels made the walk more fun. So, for me, it's not an issue of dogs, big or small, but how they are controlled and how they have been trained.

And that is the job of the owners in my opinion.

(I have to say there are many good dog owners in Gobions, too, it's just that there are a few who do not seem to know how to control their animals and they spoil it.)

David
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Offline Susan

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2010, 11:32:25 am »
David, I have never had a problem in Gobions. However, last November I was hit by a dog in Northaw, sustained a dislocated kneecap, had to be carried out of the woods by six firemen, and finally reached hospital three hours later. I spent three weeks with my leg in a full-length cast  ;D My knee is still not right.

I think you will find that many of the same people walk their dogs in Gobions and Northaw, and you were just lucky yesterday  :P
 

Offline MikeL

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2010, 01:30:16 pm »
...well lets just leave it there.

I think that's one of the problems isn't it?

Edited to link to quote referred to.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 07:45:21 pm by David Brewer »
 

Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2010, 06:40:26 pm »
 :) Hi, I'm new to this Forum and thus late in picking up on the thread. Question, do we not pay for an animal warden in our council tax? Maybe a telephone call to them might be enough to get a visit and thus make people aware of their responsibilities.
Colin
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2010, 05:42:29 pm »
Hi Colin and welcome to this Forum.

Gobions Wood is owned by Herts and Middlesex Wildlife Trust, a charity.  It has taken over from the local Gobions Woodland Trust that bought the wood in the 1980s.  There are volunteers who do the hard work of keeping the wood tidy etc, and a volunteer acts as a warden.

Gobions Open Space is owned by North Mymms Parish Council which employs groundsmen who mow the grass, empty the dog litter bins on the Open Space most days and generally maintain the open space and playground.

Neither body has an animal warden.  Welwyn Hatfield Council and the police have been given permission to check Gobions Open Space for wrong-doing but they cannot be there all the time.  I don't know what arrangement the Woodland Trust has.  A telephone call would not help since the dog and owner will be long gone by the time anyone came.

Dogs, particularly large ones, roaming free can be scary but the owners generally refuse to accept this.  Not their 'never hurt a fly' pet.  Dog poo is a constant problem, and it can cause illness particularly if small children eat it as they can do.  Never mind the mess if it gets on clothing. 

There are plenty of dog litter bins in both the wood and open space but it is a slow education business to get dog owners to accept that their responsibility - yes responsibility - to clean up their dog's poo.  The 'right' to own a dog carries responsibilities.

It can take quite a lot of guts to tell someone to clean up after their dog. But I suppose this is part of the 'Big Society' the politicians talk about. 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2010, 01:33:10 am »

Dogs, particularly large ones, roaming free can be scary but the owners generally refuse to accept this.  Not their 'never hurt a fly' pet. 


I think this is part of the problem. People understandably love their pets and can't see why or how anyone else should be afraid of them. So it's a delicate issue confronting people who may be as defensive about their pets as they would about their offspring.  And they can't see that they scare others and are a potential danger to others.  Having said that, the majority of dog owners I meet are pleasant, chatty, responsible and extremely good at keeping their pets under proper control. 

David
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Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2010, 10:14:36 am »
The fact that the two areas are owned by different bodies is not relevant. They are open to the Public and not exempt from the law. The police or the W.Hat Council cannot turned a blind eye just because the problem is too difficult to resovle.
In my experience these sorts of problems are usually down to just a couple of irresponsible dog owners. I would bet that that these people will be exercising their dogs at roughly the same every day and thus the animal warden should be able to catch them easily. Just the presence of the animal warden once in a while will be enough to curtail some offenders.
Is it the same in all areas of the UK that Animal Wardens can serve a fixed penalty notice on someone who does not clear up after their dog?
Colin
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2010, 11:14:07 am »
Something tells me that Colin owns a dog.   ;)   

Welwyn Hatfield Council does have a dog warden service and can issue penalty notices.  Whether they get paid, or have any effect, who knows? 
See http://www.welhat.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1031

Sorry to disagree, particularly with a new contributor, but the fact that the two areas are owned by different bodies is relevant.  Although they are open to the public, the police and WH Dog Wardens can only patrol etc if given permission by the land owner.  The parish council has given that permission for Gobions Open Space but I do not know the situation regarding Gobions Wood.   The police do visit Gobions Open Space regularly. 

Not being a legal expert, I can only imagine that a ticket issued on land where the police / dog warden is not authorised to work would be thrown out by any Court on this technicality.

Neither police not dog wardens can be everywhere so it is up to Joe Public to deal with it as it happens.  As already said, it is the few who spoil it for the majority.

Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2010, 03:52:21 pm »
The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 covers events in "a public place" and this is any space to which the public have acess without necessarily being invited. The fact that the place is private land is no defence. What would happen if a small dog or child were attacked by another dog?
Are you saying that the Police could/would do nothing and that "Joe Public" should deal with it? Is this a call for vigilantism?
Colin
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2010, 10:32:58 pm »
The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 covers events in "a public place" and this is any space to which the public have acess without necessarily being invited. The fact that the place is private land is no defence. What would happen if a small dog or child were attacked by another dog?
Are you saying that the Police could/would do nothing and that "Joe Public" should deal with it? Is this a call for vigilantism?

Our dog (on 2 leads as we were training her) was attacked by a loose dog on the Cuffley playing fields about 5 years ago. I was within 30 seconds of pulling the loose dogs front legs apart to get its teeth out of our dogs face before its owner - who had had the dog for a day, unknown quantity, no lead - got it off. Reported to the police, no sign after 2 hours, on further contact was referred to the local dog warden who did come and take a statement and said that he would talk to the owner. We have never heard what happened. Doesn't instil any confidence does it !!!!!
Bob
 

Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2010, 03:53:44 pm »
Unfortunately it all depends on where you live and the priorities of the local Police. In some parts of London you'd only need to have your dog bark at another and you'd get a visit.
Colin
 

Offline Emma

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2010, 07:49:28 am »
Where abouts in London is this Colin? I would very much like to live there! I am constantly looking over my shoulder whilst walking my dog these days, in fear of bigger dogs running around off lead and out of control. As said previously, the owners really don't seem to care - they are safe in the knowledge that if their dog does attack mine, the chances of them getting caught and prosecuted are non existent. The police will not get involved until a small child is attacked, and the dog wardens are so busy stuck in their offices doing paper work, or picking up strays, that they have no time for dog-on-dog attacks. To get back to the original post, I have also been approached by large dogs in Gobions, who's owner was a good distance away and clearly not in control of them. Even as a dog lover, it can be quite unnerving having such big dogs come running full pelt at you.

As for finding an answer to this increasing problem Ė unless the law is changed, and actually enforced by the relevant bodies , people will carry on letting their dogs run riot around our parks and open spaces, making it no fun for others.
 

Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2010, 10:00:36 am »
Generally South London but Enfield has been known to be overtly zealous, especially if you've a dog that looks remotely like a Staff.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a supporter of ignorant owners who either don't care or are in some form of denial; "my dog's as soft as a lamb". The fact is that the 1991 Dangerous dogs act makes it an offence to cause someone "apprehension". There does not have to be an attack or even a nip. If you are frightened then a crime has been committed.
We don't need more legislation, just a bit more enforcement.
PC. Adel Bosowitz who was one or the Balloon Day organisers is also the local dog control officer for the area. Give her a call on 01707 806470 or email adel.bosowitz (at) herts (dot) pnn (dot) police (dot) uk and see what she has to say.



Edited email address to prevent spammers
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 05:27:34 pm by Mermaid »
Colin
 

Offline Emma

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2010, 11:19:30 am »
Thank you for Adelís details, should anything happen whilst I am out and about during office hours I will be sure to call her and ask for her help.

I think more than Ďjust a bití more of enforcement is needed in this issue. I see (questionable) staff-type dogs being walked around our streets by people not much older than children, often without collars, let alone a lead with a tag (a legal requirement Iím sure you are aware). Whilst out in Hatfield town centre last week I saw the above Ė as did a police officer who walked straight by without so much as raising an eyebrow. I wonder how anything will ever change if this breech of the law is so often overlooked? As for the laws not needing to be changed, I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one. I know quite a few people whose dogs have been attacked across the country, and in each area itís the same story Ė police not interested, dog wardens donít have the power to do anything. Anyway I digress, apologies but this is a subject I feel very strongly about.
 

Offline Colin Goff

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2010, 07:20:18 pm »
Emma,
It is often the attitude of the police in not enforcing the law that irritates me more than the stupid and ignorant owners who are either unaware or just don't care.
If the police and animal wardens bothered a bit more we might not have the problems that we do.
Col.
Colin
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2014, 03:06:19 pm »
A friendly plea to the woman who let her large brown aggressive dog run free in Gobions this lunchtime, please consider keeping it on a lead if it's in the habit of running at people at speed, growling and snarling and going for their ankles. It looked a bit like an Alsatian. Even if it's not in the habit of biting people, its behaviour was extremely worrying. It came at us twice. If it had come any closer I would have had to kick it, which wouldn't be nice for the dog, you or me.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2014, 11:31:00 pm »
Whilst it would be lovely to let your dog run free, the reality is that they can be intimidating. As a dog owner myself I've had occasion to have to rescue my own dog (on a lead of course) from oncoming but usually playful packs of dogs. I reckon that my dog must think it is being attacked and reacts accordingly. Everyone get anxious and cross. So leads in public places please :-) 
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2014, 01:11:52 pm »
North Mymms Parish Council received a report about a dog acting aggressively at Gobions yesterday. The Parish Clerk called the police on the non emergency 101 number and was advised that...

  • If the dog is actually attacking someone call 999 immediately
  • If the dog is causing concern or to report a less urgent incident that has happened call 101.  The police will ask for a description of the dog, location, what occurred and time it happened.
  • If it is a stray dog running around then it is the responsibility of the dog warden at Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council.

James
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I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline Chungdokwan

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2014, 01:48:10 pm »
A friendly plea to the woman who let her large brown aggressive dog run free in Gobions this lunchtime, please consider keeping it on a lead if it's in the habit of running at people at speed, growling and snarling and going for their ankles. It looked a bit like an Alsatian. Even if it's not in the habit of biting people, its behaviour was extremely worrying. It came at us twice. If it had come any closer I would have had to kick it, which wouldn't be nice for the dog, you or me.

Personally, I would have had a word with the owner at the time the incident actually took place. The chances of her reading a posting on a parochial web site may probably be rather slim.

Edited to add quote box
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 02:15:45 pm by David Brewer »
 

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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2014, 02:16:41 pm »
Personally, I would have had a word with the owner at the time the incident actually took place. The chances of her reading a posting on a parochial web site may probably be rather slim.

You would have had to get past a snarling dog first. I don't think it would have taken too kindly to its owner being approached.

North Mymms Parish Council received a report about a dog acting aggressively at Gobions yesterday.

Interesting, I wonder whether that was one of the fishermen who had a visit from the same dog after it left us.
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Re: Aggressive dogs running free in Gobions
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2014, 03:11:02 pm »
I have now stopped going to gobions because of that.

Too many "friendly" dogs and associated waste.

On my last visit there was also a kid flying a 4 bladed hover drone about.

Have to say it looked pretty cool but looked heavy and like it would cause major injury if it hit someone.

 ::)







 

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