Poll

Traffic calming measures for North Mymms villages

Reduce speed limit to 20 mph in village centre
5 (15.6%)
Flashing warning lights
14 (43.8%)
Speed cameras
8 (25%)
Road humps
5 (15.6%)
Other or none - please post in forum
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Author Topic: Speeding along local roads  (Read 260384 times)

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John_fraser

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2003, 10:37:00 pm »
Sad to say yes and pretty often, although I've not yet seen it on Bluebridge Road or even in this village. When it happens I too drive slower and I also make it impossible to overtake me - speeding up if required. I don't recommend anyone else doing this, but I'm a big bloke and - although I'm a fully paid up wimp - I can appear intimidating.
 

Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2003, 01:01:37 am »
The problem is that modern cars need to be going at 37 ish MPH to hold top gear, this is made worse when going up hill as people do not like to slow down when going up hill as they loose momentum.
All this today ( and more)
I saw someone join a narrow road today from the right coming towards me. He drove towards me on the centre of the road with no room to go around him either way! Despite mud, rain and a slide I managed to stop, all because I was driving below the limit which was a good idea due to the conditions, well the wally just carried on around me at about 5 MPH he had not even seen me!
Later another driver came towards me on my side of the road and, in the same day another who wanted to cut across in front of me on a roundabout, too lazy to go around and get in the right lane, nearly wrote his car off over say 10 seconds.
I guess its just pretty crazy out there in the world!
Mind you sometimes the driver behind may have an emergency, ie going to hospital or vets, its better to let them past, its safer if they are up front.
There endeth the lesson,
regards,
jet
« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 09:32:22 am by admin »
 

Offline anna

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2003, 04:58:53 am »
Just a comment, but isn't this getting a bit like naming and shaming? Whilst I'm against excessive speeding, and have sadly lost a friend from the consequences.....I am not sure it's right to start describing people and cars on here?

When I recently put a post on here about a hit and run I wasn't allowed to put up a car description, but now it seems it's ok?  

I often have the opposite problem, I seem to get stuck behind cars on Brookmans Avenue, who go at 10mph the whole length, that can be just a dangerous.  

« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 10:01:56 am by admin »
 

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2003, 09:50:43 am »
Good point Anna, I have edited out any references in the posts that could possibly lead to false identification. I have also edited your post slightly because you repeated some of the elements which you had expressed concern about. In the earlier incident you referred to (which has since been deleted at your request), it was being suggested that more specific details such as the colour, make and part of the number plate of the vehicle involved should be posted on the site. You also mentioned the sex of the driver and that the incident, which you described as a 'hit and run', had been reported to the police. However, I agree, that for consistency reasons, it is better that no references be made at all. Thanks for pointing this out Anna.

On your point Jet, is it really true that modern vehicles can't do 30 mph in top gear going uphill? I suppose it depends a lot on the gradient. Even so, what is to stop them dropping down a gear?  
Quote
The problem is that modern cars need to be going at 37 ish MPH to hold top gear, this is made worse when going up hill as people do not like to slow down when going up hill as they loose momentum.


« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 11:21:20 am by admin »
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Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2003, 10:04:00 pm »
First of all I gave a marque of car to demonstrate that someone was willing to smash up a very expensive car for the sake of 10 seconds, nothing more, not even near here.
Secondly of course people can change down but they don't, its as simple as that.
As usual I do nothing wrong but for some reason by making a comment I do  :-X
regards,
jet
 

Offline Swan

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2003, 06:25:39 pm »
I would like to personally thank Editor for re-opening this thread, giving me a chance to read the jousting session between Jet and Nightrider for the first time
;D

Do people have the impression that speeding is related to people 'Passing through' the village, or is it down to locals

Because the heavily edited phrase "Making ablutions on ones own doorstep" springs to mind
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Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2003, 07:12:51 pm »
Dear swan,
as the local policeman said its mainly locals >:(
For the record, the joust between the writer and NR was deeply upsetting and ruined my Easter :(
I am not one however to be afraid to stand up to what I consider to be bullyng >:(
regards,
jet
 

Offline Swan

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2003, 10:51:37 am »
Jet

Sorry to hear that, on both counts
It reads just as verbal sparring, I guess  text can lack the emotive quality of dialogue
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Offline James Bentall

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2003, 10:54:47 am »
So... Herts CC are increasing the number of speed cameras. Would anyone object to there being one on Blue Bridge Road? Would certainly, I guess, be much more welcomed than a traffic calming measure. Maybe we should start a petition...

James
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Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2003, 11:13:58 am »
Dear James,
hear, hear,
I put forward a speeding campaign for BBR to NMORA last year which was to put it kindly not adopted.
My observations are that the residents are the main culprits, I see the same cars tearing about most days and as for the sports car driver demonstrating his ability to make noise whilst missing every gear change last night my flabber is gasted. ( what a waste of machine)
Untill the worse happens nothing will happen.
I imagine there would not be one supporter for a speed camera amongst the residents of BBR.
My roads a dead end (in more ways than one) yet one still witness's residents travelling at up to 60 mph.
regards,
jet
« Last Edit: February 12, 2003, 06:52:32 pm by jet »
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2003, 01:40:33 pm »
Quote
I put forward a speeding campaign for BBR to NMORA last year which was to put it kindly not adopted.


Yes, but that involved traffic calming measures like speed humps IIRC - was wondering whether a speed camera would be more acceptable.

Quote

I imagine there would not be one supporter for a speed camera amongst the residents of BBR.


Why not?

Cheers,

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
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Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2003, 02:18:24 pm »
Dear James,
I beg to differentiate ( and I don't mean maths ;).
My idea was open to all suggestions, speed humps being the last thing intended as they do not work.
Residents do not want any restrictions/camera as they do not want to be caught themselves.
Its all of course very cynical of me but :(
I would welcome plod doing the odd radar trap.
regards,
jet
 

Offline MC

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2003, 02:32:28 pm »
You will have the same issue with the speed camera as arose during previous discussions about vehicle controls.

That issue is that it's all very well getting a petition together but how do you represent people who don't want the measure - whatever measure it is. If 200 people sign a petition it is not representative of the entire population of BP because by definition the other 3300 people haven't signed it. Therefore to make it democratic I would think at least 50% of the BP population must sign to say they want the traffic control measure.

Otherwise the will of the minority is being imposed on the majority.

For the record let me say I think a speed camera would be a good idea. This is consistent with what I've always said.

The reason traffic control measures did not progress any further before was not because the issue was unkindly treated Jet old chum :-)

I think almost everybody showed extreme patience. The problem was three-fold :

1) no-one had the time to really own it or progress it
2) we all knew the Council wouldn't do anything major
3) the discussion was focussed around traffic calming which both i) constitutes something "major" and ii) does not have universal support

Re 3) I for one loathe the idea and I've made no secret of it. However, thinking positively, if you want to get people to sign up for something and if you want to demonstrate that a change has widespread appeal then you have a much much better chance of doing that with a speed camera than you do with any other traffic controlling measure.

Also, equally importantly, those people who do not sign the petition will almost certainly have little problem living with the consequences of a speed camera. On the other hand I predict people would have major problems living with the consequences of traffic calming.

To conclude we are now back to where we were before except that hopefully this time there are 2 big differences :
a) people are focussed on something achievable and acceptable to the majority
b) there is a better chance of getting the work carried out because it is consistent with Council/Govt/Police policy

Of course that policy is to cane motorists at every oportunity whilst totally failing to maintain the common infrastructure that we have all paid for through various taxes. At the same time all motorists are tarred with the same "lowest common denominator" brush and thus all treated like complete mororns incapable of ever driving responsibly.  Which is of course why many roads have inappropriate control measures and why many interesting roads have been mucked up to remove even safe overtaking opportunites. It's part of the EU policy or removing fun and individualism..........

Had to have just a little rant.

Anyway, how will the petition be organised?

M
 

Offline Aidan Winwood

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2003, 06:21:42 pm »
Hi,

Just a couple of points:

1.  JET, would this be the sportscar with the Formula 1 style transmission that sounds like a bag of nails has been tipped into the gearbox - if so, I've never seen him leave any parking space in the village at less than full throttle...

2.  The stumbling block to any camera is that the Government guidelines require (taken from the BP Forum article) 4 fatalities or 8 injuries to be put in place.  However perhaps with a petition this could be circumvented.

Another method to look into, that I have seen in wide use in Dorset, is where you have a camera that records speed and flashes up a 30 limit sign on an LCD board when the driver is exceeding the limit.  However it doesn't ticket the driver.  This method has apparently been sucessful at making people aware of their speed and has lowered average speeds through villages.

It would probably be cheaper to have a camera of this type and it would undoubtably cause less resistance to the speed-lowering problem.

Cheers,
Aidan
« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 11:33:19 am by Aidan_Winwood »
 

Offline Bob

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #74 on: February 12, 2003, 11:34:51 pm »
Quote
Hi,



Another method to look into, that I have seen in wide use in Dorset, is where you have a camera that records speed and flashes up a 30 limit sign on an LCD board when the driver is exceeding the limit.  However it doesn't ticket the driver.  This method has apparently been sucessful at making people aware of their speed and has lowered average speeds through villages.

It would probably be cheaper to have a camera of this type and it would undoubtably cause less resistance to the speed-lowering problem.

Cheers,
Aidan

There are some like this in Goffs Oak.
Bob
 

John_fraser

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2003, 10:39:18 am »
A little off topic:

If you have a large tabby cat which went missing last night you may want to mail me. Not sure the range of a domestic cat, but this one was on Bluebridge Road.

If you have children who are fond of this cat, please mail me before talking to them.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 11:22:45 am by John_fraser »
 

Offline john

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2003, 02:52:58 pm »
We've been having an "interesting" discussion with HCC ever since they installed the new "unrestricted" speed limit signs in Hawkshead Road RIGHT where for decades there's been the cattle-crossing point at Boltons Park Farm:  an increasingly hazardous point from the speedy-vehicles point-of-view, let alone any "udders".    The problem seems to be  (a) getting the problem recognised as an issue that shouldn't have to wait, let alone (b) any form of agreement to install warning signs, switch-able yellow hazard lights or anything else (and that starts with the expectation that we'd have to pay for such protection as well, despite ...)

Hhhhhmmmmm !


 

Offline NMLHS

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2003, 10:44:56 pm »
I was rather interested in the new cameras proposed by Herts council on the weblink provided.  I happen to work in Woolmer Green - I know its not Brookmans Park but the camera locations shown have been in operation for at least two years to my knowledge; possibley longer - so what is 'new'?  I did hear however that only one of them actually has film in it - by chance the one right outside the office!

What does seem unfair is when the speed limits are reduced without warning.  It seems that the Council does it and tells nobody in the hopes of catching a few unsuspecting drivers in order to get in some fines before too many people notice.  

I am increasingly of the opinion that we will soon see the man with the red flag walking infront of motor vehicles as they did 100 years ago. Let's face it the only safe speed is walking speed or even stay in doors and risk death or injury in the house.  Life is so fleeting.
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2003, 04:22:48 pm »
I noticed on the BBC Site that residents of a village in Sussex are so fed up with speeding that they have been given their own Speed Gun to try and catch speeding motorists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm

The interesting thing is that it doesn't appear to be a particular accident blackspot - a bit like Bluebridge Road isn't. Do people think this could work in Brookmans Park?
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
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Offline MC

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2003, 09:09:45 pm »
I would think it's highly dangerous to encourage this sort of vigilante action.

The police seem to be literally encouraging people to take the law into their own hands.

You can imagine the arguments that will ensue. Quite apart from any retribution that might result for those holding the speed guns...or speeding for that matter.
 

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2003, 09:37:18 pm »
Quote
I would think it's highly dangerous to encourage this sort of vigilante action.
The police seem to be literally encouraging people to take the law into their own hands.

It can't be termed 'vigilante' action if it is endorsed and run by the police and if the volunteers are all trained by the police.
A vigilante is a member of a self-appointed group (which this is not), undertaking law enforcement (this is just monitoring speed - the police will press charges if appropriate), without legal authority (this has the authority of the police).
I personally think it is a great idea. It would be great if Herts police decided to run such a scheme in Brookmans Park.
David Brewer
« Last Edit: May 14, 2003, 10:13:37 pm by admin »
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Mary_Morgan

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2003, 11:16:28 pm »
I am halfway between MC and Ed on this one.  My first instinct was vigilante, but I can see that it is a possible good way of checking speeding that would help an undermanned police force.    My concerns would be that the volunteers were well screened by the police, and that the police prescribed times when the volunteers should be out checking speeding.  

If this were not the case, I can envisage a situation, if it is not regulated carefully, that a volunteer who perhaps did not particularly like someone, knew they speeded through the village and knew what time they were likely to be passing through, could clock that person at regular intervals, producing a high percentage return for that particular person/their car.

Cheers.
Mary
 

Offline MC

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2003, 11:00:44 am »
This is about people who are not the police enforcing the law - or at least being highly involved in the process of enforcing the law. While that may not meet the pedantic definition of vigilante it is undeniably true that it involves non-police individuals in the process of law enforcement.

It would be very hard to stop it being abused and extremely likely to be something that generated tremendous ill-feeling.

At the same time I think we can all argue that we paid for a police force yet now the service has to be undertaken by citizens.  If a genuine problem can be defined then proper action should be taken.  If it can't then so be it. This is a half-way house with trouble written all over it.

It's a ridiculous idea. Like having volunteers driving ambulances - another  hair-brained scheme I read about the other day.

 

Offline jet

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2003, 12:42:20 pm »
Yet again we pay our tax and rates and are then encouraged to do the work ourselves.
The people speeding mostly live in the village and to be truthfull every one of us excedes the speed limit at one time or another. Pot calling the kettle black springs to mind.
Inapropriate speeding is now prevelant in this village.
This regime encourages the informer type society, they will be having people in peaked caps telling us where to park next.
regards,
jet
Nice to see this thread started again, all we need now is a comment from JF :)
 

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2003, 04:19:36 pm »
Quote
to be truthfull every one of us excedes the speed limit at one time or another.

Not sure that is true Jet, I know many who slow down to observe the speed limit because they resepect the law and are aware of the dangers of driving too fast.

As for the use of the word 'vigilante'
Quote
While that may not meet the pedantic definition of vigilante it is undeniably true that it involves non-police individuals in the process of law enforcement.
if the word is not appropriate for describing the scheme then perhaps best not to use it in discussing the scheme.

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Hampton_Wick

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2003, 05:20:36 pm »
As someone who lives in Bluebridge Road, I have to say that if it acts as a deterrent and makes motorists slow down I would encourage it.

Quite often I wish I had my camcorder with me to capture motorists speeding past my door.

I would be happy to take my turn on the rota and stand outside with the radar thing if we could set it up.

I am frequently overtaken as I drive along Bluebridge Road at 30mph.  It scares me to death to imagine if my daughter ran out of the drive.  Or even if the other vehicle had a tyre blow out.

Leaving matters to the Police means that we have to wait until we have a serious accident before anything is done.  MC are you prepared to guarantee that it won't?

I think it's an accident waiting to happen.  I don't want it to happen to my family, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.  If this scheme is successful in Sussex I would be delighted to endorse it's use in Brookmans Park.
 

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #86 on: May 15, 2003, 07:33:20 pm »
Can anyone truthfully say that they have never exceeded a speed limit?
Think about it, has your eye been on the speedo at all times, is your speedo calibrated correctly?
Ipso Facto I rest my case.
regards,
jet
 

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2003, 08:07:23 pm »
If a driver exceeds the speed limit s/he is breaking the law, either intentionally or accidently through not paying attention. Either way, safety is jeopardised if all the 'speed related to stopping' stats are to be believed.

Sadly the current system demands a serious accident takes place before measures are introduce on a particular road to slow down those who feel they have a right to drive too fast.

This scheme James posted about seems to me to be a great idea of helping enforce the laws which were introduced to protect people.

Here is the link again. Villagers get speed guns.

Let's not forget what this is all about.  It is not about emotive words like 'vigilantes', but about a community of ordinary people working together with the police to try to prevent accidents.

It is about volunteers being supplied with devices which can record the registration numbers of speeding motorists. The details will then be passed to the police who will  send warning letters to drivers who exceed the 30 mph speed limit. Repeat offenders will then dealt with.

That suggests that not everyone who is caught as a result of this will get penalised, but the repeat offenders will be.  I can't see a problem with this.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2003, 08:09:41 pm by admin »
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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2003, 08:48:53 pm »
Yes of course its breaking the law, but laws are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
Surely speed prosecutions as a result of amatuers who will not be quallified to use this equipment will fail in court. Who is going to decide which speeders will get a warning or whatever.
We will have householders detaining burglars next and then where will we be, anarchy.
I see no reason though why volunteers could not hold a sign saying "slow down" of course if it distracted drivers they would be liable for the  consequential damage of their actions.
In other words if things don't change they will stay the same.
I don't know what thats got to do with it but I have excersised my democratic right to have an opinion. :)
regards,
Jet
 

Offline MC

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Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2003, 09:07:52 pm »
Same old same old. Can you guarantee it will happen?

I refuse to get drawn into the accident waiting to happen argument again. It's the same as the traffic calming issue and speed cameras. The locations are supposed to be proven accident blackspots.  If that is not the case then that's that. There is no record of this in BP despite concerns we may all have at varying at levels.

Do you want a brick thru the window when someone finds out it was you with the camera? Not an offer by the way....I know who you are  :-)

But do you?

And vigilante is a relevant word Ed so I'm gonna use it. Censor my thread if you don't like it.

If you think it's not appropriate ask the guy who's serving time for shooting burglars in Norfolk. It obviously is NOT the same level of issue but it is the same concept.

I'm not posting on this again. Don't know why I started anyway.
 

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