Poll

Traffic calming measures for North Mymms villages

Reduce speed limit to 20 mph in village centre
5 (15.6%)
Flashing warning lights
14 (43.8%)
Speed cameras
8 (25%)
Road humps
5 (15.6%)
Other or none - please post in forum
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Author Topic: Speeding along local roads  (Read 261268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jet

  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
  • Gender: Male
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2003, 09:18:43 pm »
Well I posted because I am provocative :) :) :)
And you don't need to do anything to get a brick through the window in Blairs Regime.
TM in Norfolk was at the end of his tether and had been let down by the police, his actions with an illegally held shotgun were not rational, not that it would have been rational to use a legally held firearm in such a manner.
Whats that got to do with speeding, as MC says it is in fact everything to do with it.
regards,
jet
« Last Edit: May 17, 2003, 02:20:51 pm by jet »
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2003, 09:31:50 pm »
MC,
Of course you can use the word vigilante if that is your take on the situation, although it is not an accurate description of the people involved in the action I thought we were discussing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3026733.stm

But you are spot on about the rules about traffic calming measures
Quote
The locations are supposed to be proven accident blackspots.  If that is not the case then that's that.

This is from the Herts Co Co website regarding speed cameras.
Quote
Criteria for New Sites
There are strict criteria regarding the use of cameras, including their siting and visibility. Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.
The criteria for mobile sites is for four personal injury collisions within a three year period, of which two are fatal and/or serious collisions on a section of road.
All new cameras are painted bright yellow to make them easily identifiable to drivers.


Here are the Herts Co Co guidelines in full
http://www.hertsdirect.org/hcc/environment/transman/rdsafety/safetycameras/

So the question is, if the rules mean there can't be traffic calming measures before an accident happens, and if the local residents are concerned about the possibility of an accident happening, why can't they help the police encourage motorists to slow down in an attempt to prevent that accident happening?  What else can they do?

« Last Edit: May 15, 2003, 10:17:02 pm by admin »
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Hampton_Wick

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2003, 12:27:38 pm »
You only need look at the number of postings here to see that Speeding in BP and in particular Bluebridge Road is a problem.  As you leave the village behind you there's a nice straight run out to the countryside towards PB.  You can see clearly ahead and it's very tempting to put your foot down.

The fact is that it's illegal and it's dangerous, not only to our residents, but also for the motorists thenselves.  It's a residential area and people pull out of their driveways not expecting traffic to be travelling at high speeds and sometimes on the wrong side of the road!

There is probably an accident along Bluebridge Road every 2 or 3 months.  It's pure luck that nothing serious has happened.  

Personally I think that speeding through the village is a problem, and in my opinion, anything that can be done to reduce the speed of vehicles through our village should be seriously considered.
 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #93 on: May 16, 2003, 01:26:12 pm »
i agree that people enter the village far too fast along Blue bridge rd however i agree with ATG that the most dangerous piece of road i have driven on is "the bendy bit" on Moffats where cars negotiate these bends far too fast and with the added problem of parked cars i am surprised that no one has ended up on the pavements there (maybe they have),or had a head on collis ???ions.

Has anyone got any suggestions how we can minimise this risk
 

Offline anna

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
  • Gender: Female
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2003, 06:03:49 pm »
I haven't posted for ages but thought I'd put my two pennies worth in. Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem, except for the noise of speeding cars for the people who live in those Roads. Or perhaps less confident drivers.  The problems areas, and the places I've seen many accidents are: Around the village, only minor bumps but the road layout is terrible, and on the A1000, where there have been "major" accidents.

However, saying all of the above, if I was staying around here, I'd be far more concerned about the growing drug problem, than about speeding.  It's is know amongst most youngsters that they can get drugs in the gobians..........NOW THATS A WORRY!

If we starting getting members of the public with speed guns, this would be a worrying place to live. If we've got that to that stage then better to get a speed camera put up.
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2003, 06:17:53 pm »
Quote
If we starting getting members of the public with speed guns, this would be a worrying place to live. If we've got that to that stage then better to get a speed camera put up.

But Anna that is the problem. You can't get have speed cameras unless you qualify and as you can see from the quote from the Herts Co Co site below, a number of serious accident have to happen before a road like Bluebridge would even be considered for speed cameras.
Quote

Criteria for New Sites
There are strict criteria regarding the use of cameras, including their siting and visibility. Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.
The criteria for mobile sites is for four personal injury collisions within a three year period, of which two are fatal and/or serious collisions on a section of road.
All new cameras are painted bright yellow to make them easily identifiable to drivers.

And who would these 'less confident' drivers be?
Quote
perhaps mean there isn't really a problem, except for the noise of speeding cars for the people who live in those Roads. Or perhaps less confident drivers.

...I hope you don't mean those who observe the speed limit.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2003, 06:35:56 pm by admin »
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline Susan

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2003, 12:56:11 am »
With all this talk about accidents, please don't forget quality of life issues, too. I walk to nursery school with my two pre-school children. Those of you who drive should be pleased, as this means I don't clog up your road  :)

However, my walk is made so much more unpleasant by speeding. Car drivers seem to think that going at 35 mph or even 40 mph in a 30 limit is ok, because they know they won't be stopped for speeding. But when you are walking, there is a huge difference between cars passing you at 28 mph compared with 35 mph (and many cars go much faster). Does it make that much difference to your journey time?

I walk along Dixons Hill Road in Welham Green (four times a day in term time), so if any of you are driving through, I for one would be especially pleased if you stayed under the speed limit...  :)
 

Offline MC

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Gender: Male
  • Brookmans Park Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #97 on: May 21, 2003, 03:49:56 pm »
Editor - fascinating that you have commented on many aspects of Anna's post except the truly telling sentence :

"Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem"

To which I'd have to add that if the criteria for applying speed cameras (which I remind you I am in support of) aren't met in Brookmans Park then perhaps it is time to recognise that impartial assessment of the situation also finds there to be no problem.

We are all well aware of the keeness of the authorities to apply cameras wherever they can in order to raise some more funds for the coffers. What does it tell you if they can't find a case in BP?

 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #98 on: May 21, 2003, 03:52:22 pm »
The people in Brookmans Park couldn't afford to pay the fines :)
 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #99 on: May 21, 2003, 04:26:42 pm »
Driving thru the village yesterday coming from Hawkshead i noticed that on entry to the village i.e over the bridge that you naturally slow down any way especially as the road before Bluebridge goes into an incline so therefore having to keep your speed would take a conscious effort to push down on the accelarator further,and i actually feel that most people would not do this.
I am not sure whether a few ignorant people who may have done this have lead to this topic being blown out of proportion.
I still think pedestrians and cars a like are more at risk in moffatts lane  between Moffatts farm and the entrance to gobions especially as some people try to negotiate this narrow series of bends too fast especially as more often than not cars are parked on the road and its a blind spot
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2003, 06:12:29 pm »
Quote
Editor - fascinating that you have commented on many aspects of Anna's post except the truly telling sentence :
"Firstly, the fact there hasn't been a major accident might perhaps mean there isn't really a problem"

I can't understand why you find this 'fascinating' MC, particularly as I did comment on this in a reply to a post of yours on page six of this thread ...

Quote
So the question is, if the rules mean there can't be traffic calming measures before an accident happens, and if the local residents are concerned about the possibility of an accident happening, why can't they help the police encourage motorists to slow down in an attempt to prevent that accident happening?  What else can they do?


... and again in another post on that same page. To repeat myself again would be boring.

David Brewer
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline MC

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Gender: Male
  • Brookmans Park Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2003, 11:08:46 pm »
or alternatively you could answer the question??
 

John_fraser

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2003, 11:17:55 pm »
I assume that a major accident is being defined as someone getting killed or injured. If so, then there have been none - to my knowledge – along Bluebridge Road. There have, however, been a number of accidents where vehicles have hit parked cars or mounted the pavement and hit lampposts. I have also seen cars, travelling too fast, clip and mount the pavement. Any and all of these could have resulted in fatalities. Only luck, or the odds, were on our side. Not something I feel happy to depend on.

Sadly cars do maintain too much of their speed entering the village. Partly because it is an unconscious effort to do so – i.e. drivers tend to maintain speed unless the deliberately change it – and partly because the road changes from sixty to thirty only a few feet from the first house. Many drivers do not even start to slow until they are near or actually on the bridge and they are travelling at over forty for a good length down the road. Most drivers continue at about forty for the rest of the road.

There is also the issue of the drivers accelerating out of the village. This can start before Bluebridge Avenue. I see a lot of this because of where I live and a small handful of drivers are in excess of sixty by the time the reach the bridge.

I agree that drivers go too fast around the bend in Moffet’s Lane, but it isn’t nearly as bad as Bluebridge Road. I doubt this bend could be taken at all if the car was travelling at over thirty and it is so obviously dangerous that drivers tend to be below this. If a car hits a pedestrian at 20mph, the pedestrian has a 95% chance of not receiving serious injury. At forty the odds are 95% that they will be seriously injured or killed. So yes it is dangerous, but I think the odds of a fatality are substantially lower.

The thing about Moffet’s Lane is that I don’t go along there that much. If the residents told me that they really believed that this bend was an serious accident waiting to happen, I’d be prepared to believe them. And I’d be prepared to have my driving limited to avoid this. I know of no-one on Bluebridge Road who doesn’t think our luck will run out. The families with children who live on this road who I have spoken to can see a fatality happening. Each family hopes they are wrong, but they pray it won’t be their child who is the one to trigger action.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 11:19:39 pm by John_fraser »
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2003, 12:59:55 am »
Quote
or alternatively you could answer the question??


What question?


The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline MC

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Gender: Male
  • Brookmans Park Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2003, 01:18:19 am »
read my previous post.

This is my last post on this subject because if even Govt authorities with tons of money they want to spend won't put a speed camera in BP and they are supposed to be experts in their field then it tells us something about the pointlessness of the whole debate.

To close I support a speed camera anyway but since I'm the only one who ever gets pulled up for emotive language on this topic when everyone is dressing up their issues on a regular basis I really can't see the point of continuing. This was started by the DIY traffic cop debate which I don't support for loads of reasons.

There's also an odds on chance this will be my last post on the site as a whole. If anybody wants to know why you can write directly to me.
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2003, 01:43:04 am »
I can only find one question in the post your referred me to and that is ...
Quote
What does it tell you if they can't find a case in BP?

.. and of course the answer to that is in the criteria set by the authorities, which I think you are familiar with because it has been posted earlier in this thread.
Quote
Static camera sites can only be positioned on a section of road where there has been a minimum of eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four must be fatal and/or serious collisions.

So the answer to the question is that Bluebridge doesn't qualify because there haven't been eight personal injury collisions within a three year period of which four were fatal and/or serious collisions.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2003, 01:44:03 am by admin »
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

roy

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #106 on: May 27, 2003, 01:21:33 am »
 ???
Part of the problem of speeding though Brookmans Park lies in the inadequet bus service

My children try to get the bus at hawshead road but often the 610 does not turn up or the driver just waves as the bus is full up before it gets to the stop

The only way to get to Hatfield with any reliability is by car often driven by stress mothers getting calls from there equally stressed children at the bus stop after being waved at

More busses regularly on time or even a bigger bus at peak time would cut down this pointless traffic
 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #107 on: June 18, 2003, 05:50:01 pm »
Just on this thread,i'm sure there used to be a round mirror at the top of moffats,opposite the chapel near the farm house so as to see around that blind bend so drivers could slow down when they could see any oncoming traffic.
Can any one tell me what happened to this and how we could get another put up so that some drivers can use their common sense and slow down
 

Offline Margaret

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2003, 02:23:51 am »
No matter what the council say, speeding is a problem in Brookmans Park and elswhere for the simple reason IT IS BREAKING THE LAW and what is the point of having laws to protect the inocent if nobody takes any notice, so for all the speeders STOP BREAKING THE LAW.
 

John_fraser

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2004, 10:35:19 pm »
On Friday there was a car crash on Bluebridge Road. This time a speeding car hit a car making a right turn into its drive. The speeding car was travelling in the same direction as the car turning right and not only had insufficient time to stop before hitting the other car, it hit with sufficient force to cause both cars to mount the and travel along it for 15 feet before demolishing a sturdy garden wall. Luckily there were no fatalities, although I believe the innocent (i.e. non speeding) driver received some minor injuries - I use the word “minor” reservedly as they are probably very painful.

I did not see the accident so I do not know the speed of the offending driver. But seeing where the accident occurred, the viewable distance and the fact he was unable to shed sufficient speed to stop or even reduce the impact to a less serious nature, I believe his speed was excessive for a residential road. Clearly, if anyone had been walking along this stretch of pavement at the time – as my wife and children along with many others do every day - they would have been killed. If the speeding driver had encountered someone crossing the road instead of a car turning, then there would have been a fatality. Indeed, the innocent driver was luck to escape with his life and without serious injury.

The reason I am putting this because when I walked down the road a few hours I noticed the damage to a neighbour’s wall, but never realised what a lucky escape the neighbour had had. All other evidence of the accident had been removed and I only found out the details from my wife who had walked down the road shortly afterwards, saw the cars and spoke to our neighbours. Further back in this thread Phil (I think) mentioned that a lamppost was demolished by a speeding car and about a speeding car hitting a parked car late at night. A couple of years ago I say a car hit a lamppost at Bradmore Green. Any of these accidents could have been fatal, but you would never of known about them unless you happened to see them or possibly pass by shortly afterwards.

It has been argued in this thread that there isn’t a problem with speeding because there have been no fatalities or serious injuries. It has also been argued that we have just been lucky and something should be done before our luck runs out. When accidents are cleared up so quickly either argument is flawed because most of us don’t know how often potentially fatal accidents happen. Therefore it though it might be useful to post details of any such accidents here so that a picture could emerge.
 

Offline Mooniemad

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Male
  • Brookmans Park Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2004, 10:46:01 pm »
Yes I agree. Several times when I have been driving to and from locations at various times I have noticed several accidents. However on all occassions I have expected to hear someone else having gossip about it, but on most occassions they are unknown.

To be honest the fact is the speeding is a problem and although there has yet to be an accident, why should we wait for one to occur.You didn't see Blair and Bush wait for the alleged Weapons of mass destruction to be used before they acted so why should we have to wait for an accident to occur in order for a solution to the speeding problem?
 

Offline jet

  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
  • Gender: Male
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #111 on: January 26, 2004, 11:35:09 am »
Last week ( at 5pm, dark ) I saw a driver overtake another car going up BBR towards the village. It was abreast the car entering the bend, accelerating hard at 60+. When it cleared the car ( out of my sight) it must have had to brake hard to enter the village at anything less than 50+
There was nothing this driver could have done to avoid a crash if anyone had been coming the other way, it was pure luck.
It is not unusual to witness such things.
There are many instances where drivers manouvre their cars to park in their drives when other cars only just manage to stop in time.
When some of us tried to organise a campaign in 2002, the support we got was nil.
It would seem that like most roads in BP the residents cannot be bothered to get together and petition the police.
regards,
jet
At the moment the fatalities are moggies, one day its going to be tragic.
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #112 on: January 28, 2004, 12:14:02 am »
I think we were also lucky that no pedestrians were hurt when two cars collided at the end of Moffats about six weeks ago. It happened just at the time children were walking to school and one car ended up embedded in a wall having mounted and crossed the pavement.
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline Largey

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #113 on: January 28, 2004, 12:27:56 am »
There were two cars in the same position last week.... What happened there.. One of them was a BMW.... Anyone know..
 

AgentOrange

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2004, 11:44:14 pm »
I have been overtaken on Pine Grove at speeds in excess of 50 mph by vehicles leaving Chancellors during the school day and on Saturdays. A more recent hazard has been the arrival of several pupil drivers who use Pine Grove as a racetrack for showing off to their mates. I know its not the schools problem per se, but they are all representatives of the school. It can only be a matter of time before a school child or a resident gets hit.
 

Offline Editor

  • David Brewer
  • Administrator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 8880
  • Thanked: 136 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Media Helping Media
  • Expertises:
  • Media consultant
  • Journalism trainer
  • Walking
  • Real ale
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #115 on: January 28, 2004, 11:58:17 pm »
Quote
A more recent hazard has been the arrival of several pupil drivers who use Pine Grove as a racetrack for showing off to their mates.
Perhaps there's a business opportunity at the bottom end of Moffats and Pine Grove for someone to park two mobile units offering brake pad replacements?
::)
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

AgentOrange

  • Guest
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #116 on: January 29, 2004, 01:01:37 pm »
I would have thought the business opportunity was for one of the private contractors that Hertfordshire Safety Camera Partnership use to take pictures of speeding motorists! Or some easy results for the local constabulary! I hope that one of the mobile camera units pays BP a visit soon. Suggestions for a suitably camouflaged spot between Chancellors and Moffats please! ;D
 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2004, 04:56:14 pm »
if you look under the "boy racers "thread,i pulled this up months ago,however in the end the only thing these kids understood was a more direct action...consequently they all now know who i am and do not race around the green or outside the brookmans park hotel.
The police can't be every where all of the time and it does take the local people to stand up and say we don't want you doing this around here,but maybe not so politely......language they understand etc
I do not live near the green but was totally fed up with them all after they nearly ran over my wife and children.
I still these people around and now they wave and try to say hello.................which just goes to show that the only action that works is direct action...........and funnily enough they understood that.
 

Offline sasquartch

  • Forum Moderator
  • Opinions on everything
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Thanked: 20 times
  • Brookmans Park Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2004, 06:24:04 pm »
Shads, it's great you got a positive response - however a sad fact of life is that most people are simply too scared to confront groups of youths. In the past I've had words with troublemakers only to be told to f... off and mind my own business.
I completely agree that something should be done to stop speeders, 50mph+ along residential streets is simply not on. I for one would welcome a speed camera along Bluebridge road.
 

Offline shads

  • Opinions on many things
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Forum Member
Re: Speeding along local roads
« Reply #119 on: January 29, 2004, 06:35:06 pm »
i agree whole heartedly i just hate the fact that these people and is only about 8 of them are spoiling everyones enjoyment of the village.....and 90% of these people that also hang around on the green at night(obviously not in this weather) but it just annoys me.
As regarding the average non pubescent speeders i feel a camera would be a great deterent to these and also the "under 5's".
 

Tags: