Author Topic: Fly tipping in the local countryside  (Read 179586 times)

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Offline GGDT

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #420 on: April 12, 2016, 01:35:21 pm »
Fly tippers seem to have been out in force last night.

Drove past 4 fridge freezers in the space of 100 yards along Swanland Road this morning on my way to work plus various assorted bags of rubbish chucked into bushes on the road between Colney Heath and the Bell roundabout.
 

Offline epiphany

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #421 on: April 13, 2016, 09:51:28 am »

Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council discussed fly-tipping at their Cabinet meeting on 05 April 2016.


See page 3 (Agenda Item 7a) - http://welhat.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=11000&p=0


This is a large document and will take a while to download!


Whilst acknowledging an increase in fly-tipping the following reasons are given for the increase.


3.6 "Although it is unable to identify a particular reason for this increase, it is likely that it is a result of better reporting systems, residents generating excess waste as goods become more affordable and residents are undertaking building works and moving house as the economy has continued to improve. Where residents share communal waste stores, large bulky items, excess waste and recycling are often left next to bins and outside waste stores"


Amazingly, the reduction in opening hours and restriction of van drivers visits to the Household Waste Recycling Centres (HWRC) imposed in January last year is not included here even though it is probably the single largest reason for the increase.


This information is actually contained in the following paragraph........


3.7 In addition to this, there are a number businesses who will knowingly undermine legitimate waste businesses through fly-tipping and avoiding waste disposal costs. There has also been a steady increase in the number of reported incidents of fly-tipping since the changes were made to the opening hours of the HWRCs and the introduction of a van permit scheme in January 2015


We now have the bizarre situation of green waste being dumped in country lanes and cleared away at tax payers expense, rather than actively encouraging van drivers with green waste to the HWRC's where it is actually used to create revenue for the Council by re-selling as composted material.
 

Offline GGDT

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #422 on: April 13, 2016, 10:40:04 am »
Agree about the reduced hours and no van policy at the dump in Cranbourne.

I've been caught out a couple of times going down there with a car full of rubbish only to find it closed, it's a pain to unload it all again and go back a day later so I can see why some wouldn't bother and just fly tip it instead.

The no vans policy is a noncense as well. What is the point in having a tip if you can't actually take any rubbish there?!
 
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Offline James Bentall

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #423 on: April 13, 2016, 04:40:49 pm »
The no vans policy is a noncense as well. What is the point in having a tip if you can't actually take any rubbish there?!

You can take rubbish there in a van. I have already this year with a load of cardboard and green waste. You just have to register first. They give you a piece of paper through the post and you can then visit there up to 12 times a year. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me and is a good compromise between banning vans altogether and allowing anyone to go (which could therefore be open to abuse).


You can also take stuff in a hired van providing you take a copy of your hire agreement with you.


FYI form available here:


http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/envplan/waste/wasteaware/hwrc1/vanperm/
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly-tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #424 on: June 09, 2016, 03:01:28 pm »
Fly-tipping advice from the local Neighbourhood Watch

Jenny Morris, the OWL (Online Watch Link) support administrator for Neighbourhood Watch has issued the following advice for anyone who sees fly-tipping.

Quote
We often receive reports or enquiries from local residents about fly-tipping.  Fly-tipping is a crime. Here is some advice:

* DO: If you witness fly-tipping in action, observe from a distance and call 999. If you come across a fly-tip, contact your local council www.hertsdirect.org/flytip. Alternatively call 101 and a referral will be made to the local authority.

* DON’T IGNORE IT! Fly-tippers can now be fined up to £50,000 in Magistrate’s Court or unlimited fines in higher courts, as well as community punishment orders or prison sentences of up to five years.

* DON’T INTERFERE: with the tip unless there is danger of evidence blowing away, in which case contain it.

Record and report the following details if possible:

* The location, date and time you witnessed or came across the fly-tip.
* If the fly-tip is blocking a right of way.
* A description of the waste – highlight anything that looks like chemicals or liquid waste.
* If you saw any vehicles; what type, make, model, colour and registration were they?
* How many people were involved and a description of them.
 
Regards,
Jenny Morris, the OWL (Online Watch Link) support administrator for Neighbourhood Watch
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Offline larrylamb

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #425 on: June 09, 2016, 05:08:37 pm »
This evening at 7.45 pm as I drove towards brookmans park on hawkshead lane a yellow tipper truck pulled out in front of me from the field entrance just beyond the vet college farm.   It still had its tipper raised and had just dumped a load of soil.

I followed it into the village, it was driving at 55 mph with its tipper still raised.   It turned into the travellers site on Bulls Lane.   I got its number plate and I will be contacting the council in the morning.
Do we know if any prosecutions followed?
 

Offline slimgym

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #426 on: June 09, 2016, 08:43:05 pm »
West End Lane again last night.
 

Offline peppermint

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #427 on: June 09, 2016, 11:30:33 pm »
Larrylamb,


I don't know if any prosecutions followed but I suspect not.  We gave the information we had to WHC  but a couple of days later we had a phone call from them saying that I would need to be prepared to attend court as a witness or they couldn't take it further. The lady I spoke to suggested that phoning with information isn't enough and that unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted no action can be taken.


I understand the procedures they need to follow to prosecute offenders but I wasn't prepared to go to Court and possibly be identified by these Bulls Lane residents.


Editor,


I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I
believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them.


For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 08:02:45 am by peppermint »
 

Offline larrylamb

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #428 on: June 10, 2016, 08:29:57 am »
Larrylamb,

I don't know if any prosecutions followed but I suspect not.  We gave the information we had to WHC  but a couple of days later we had a phone call from them saying that I would need to be prepared to attend court as a witness or they couldn't take it further. The lady I spoke to suggested that phoning with information isn't enough and that unless people are prepared to stand up and be counted no action can be taken.

I understand the procedures they need to follow to prosecute offenders but I wasn't prepared to go to Court and possibly be identified by these Bulls Lane residents.

Editor,

I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I
believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them.

For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.


Hi peppermint,

Thanks for your reply, I absolutley understand your reasons for not wanting to be identified by the Bulls Lane residents should you give evidence and be recognised in court.

What with the absence of a effective police presence these people know that they can do what they like, this follows to normally law abiding citizens speeding, texting at the wheel etc because they know they can get away with it.

I am not critisizing you Peppermint in any way, but thats how the system works and as a result no prosecution, no crime commited so statistics say crime is falling
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:45:34 am by Editor »
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #429 on: June 10, 2016, 08:34:24 am »
Editor,
I have read your post attaching the neighbourhood Watch advice on what we should do if we see fly tipping taking place.   I took down all the information I could and passed it to the council but I believe we should be made aware that for action to be taken against these people we should be prepared to be identified by them. For that reason, whilst I will continue to report fly tipping so that the rubbish can be cleared, I no longer expect the perpetrators to be prosecuted.

Fair point, I will send Jenny Morris at OWL a link to this thread so they can clarify in the text of their appeal.

David
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Offline Adrian

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #430 on: June 10, 2016, 09:03:17 am »
Fly tipping is a crime and as such if you witness it occurring you should call 999.

All 999 calls are taped recorded and if you pass over the registration number as you view it or very soon afterwards it is contemporaneously recorded and has greater weight. Also if police are nearby and stop the vehicle soon afterwards they may be able to prosecute without your court attendance as they can secure sufficient evidence without you. Irrespective of whether a prosecution follows, it is still good intelligence which may be useful on a later occasion - even for matters unrelated to fly tipping.

 
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Offline larrylamb

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #431 on: June 11, 2016, 09:48:58 am »
Fly tipping is a crime and as such if you witness it occurring you should call 999.

All 999 calls are taped recorded and if you pass over the registration number as you view it or very soon afterwards it is contemporaneously recorded and has greater weight. Also if police are nearby and stop the vehicle soon afterwards they may be able to prosecute without your court attendance as they can secure sufficient evidence without you. Irrespective of whether a prosecution follows, it is still good intelligence which may be useful on a later occasion - even for matters unrelated to fly tipping.


As there is a proliferation of fly tipping Adrian I suspect a failed promissory somewhere.
 

Offline slimgym

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #432 on: July 13, 2016, 11:18:18 pm »
The council have upped the FPN to £300 for fly-tipping - http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/fly_tipping_crackdown_continues_as_new_fines_introduced_1_4615336 - a move in the right direction but not sure how many people they manage to catch at it.
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #433 on: July 14, 2016, 07:46:21 am »
I wonder whether the fixed penalty notice will make any difference to those determined to fly tip? And does anyone have any data on how many people are caught?
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Offline sasquartch

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #434 on: July 14, 2016, 12:32:53 pm »
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent
 

Offline epiphany

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #435 on: July 14, 2016, 01:41:37 pm »
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent

If the fine is paid within ten days it is reduced to £180 - So absolutely usesless as a deterrent.

I thought the maximum fine for fly-tipping was £20,000 - Why are the new fines so miniscule?
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #436 on: July 14, 2016, 02:13:10 pm »
Unfortunately with the cost of a skip often over £200 the slim chance of being served with a £300 fine might not be a great deterrent

If the fine is paid within ten days it is reduced to £180 - So absolutely usesless as a deterrent.

I thought the maximum fine for fly-tipping was £20,000 - Why are the new fines so miniscule?

It does seem a small amount, especially when I read that dropping litter can result in a £2,500 fine. In that context, dumping a truck load of often dangerous waste for £300 seems a snip.

http://www.cleanhighways.co.uk/litter-laws
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Offline epiphany

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #437 on: July 14, 2016, 05:05:41 pm »
According to page 7 of this Parliamentary Briefing Paper about fly-tipping published in May 2016 the fines were increased to £50,000 or 12 months imprisonment in the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.


What on earth are Welwyn Hatfield Council playing at issuing such paltry fines?

<a href="http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/SN05672%20(1).pdf" target="_blank">http://www.brookmans.com/pdfs/SN05672%20(1).pdf</a>
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:35:11 am by Editor »
 

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #438 on: July 15, 2016, 08:41:35 am »
I wrote to Welwyn Hatfield earlier this week to try to find out how many prosecutions there had been for fly tipping in the borough in recent years. I asked:

Quote
Under the Freedom of Information Act, could someone from the council supply me with details on arrests and prosecutions for fly tipping in the local area in the years 2012/2013/2014/2015/2016, please?

The answer has just arrived via email. Freedom of Information Officer at Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council, Ian Colyer, replied within two days with the following.

Quote
I can confirm that there has been one prosecution for fly tipping in June 2016 and no prosecutions in all other years.  I can also confirm that there has been no arrests for fly tipping in all these years.

David
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Offline Susan

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #439 on: July 15, 2016, 09:51:22 am »
In fact, there was another prosecution in 2013 – see my post number 295, page 10, on this thread, for rubbish dumped at the North Mymms Community Centre. This successful prosecution was carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency and not WelHat Council, because the person who dumped the rubbish was a licensed waste carrier. (The EPA prosecute these carriers.)

I read in the WelHat Times about the June 2016 prosecution. The council prosecuted a man who gave his waste (an old kitchen) to someone he believed to be a licensed waste carrier. This carrier dumped the rubbish at Holwell Hyde Lane in WGC. The householder admitted his guilt, and was prosecuted.

I am concerned that the council prosecuted a soft target rather than going after the actual person who did the dumping, and who no doubt continues to dump rubbish. From the paper, the homeowner was someone of previously good character who thought they were doing the right thing. For WelHat Council, it gave the councillors some good PR, but really didn’t get to the root of the problem at all – which is prosecuting the actual dumpers who dump week in and week out!
 
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Offline larrylamb

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #440 on: July 15, 2016, 10:22:21 am »
In fact, there was another prosecution in 2013 – see my post number 295, page 10, on this thread, for rubbish dumped at the North Mymms Community Centre. This successful prosecution was carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency and not WelHat Council, because the person who dumped the rubbish was a licensed waste carrier. (The EPA prosecute these carriers.)

I read in the WelHat Times about the June 2016 prosecution. The council prosecuted a man who gave his waste (an old kitchen) to someone he believed to be a licensed waste carrier. This carrier dumped the rubbish at Holwell Hyde Lane in WGC. The householder admitted his guilt, and was prosecuted.

I am concerned that the council prosecuted a soft target rather than going after the actual person who did the dumping, and who no doubt continues to dump rubbish. From the paper, the homeowner was someone of previously good character who thought they were doing the right thing. For WelHat Council, it gave the councillors some good PR, but really didn’t get to the root of the problem at all – which is prosecuting the actual dumpers who dump week in and week out!
Last paragraph spot on.
 

Offline slimgym

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #441 on: July 15, 2016, 11:11:09 am »
This is sadly the story of life. The FPN will be used to prosecute soft easy targets like cigarette end droppers (who really should learn anyway) while complex ones or beefy looking people dropping stuff will have a blind eye turned. It's just a shame there are people through whatever cause who have no self-pride and consideration to keep the place looking as though they had never been there.

You see it all the time, people tearing cellophane wrappers off things and launching the wrapping in to the air. It's just so lodged in my psyche as wrong I don't understand where they get it form. Todays wrapper dropper, tomorrows fly tipper.
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #442 on: July 27, 2016, 08:02:35 pm »
47 fines have been issued for fly tipping in Welwyn Hatfield since 2011. Each fine was issued at £75, reduced to £50 if paid within 10 days. Year by year the figures are as follows:

  • 2011/12 = 19
  • 2012/13 = 8
  • 2013/14 = 5
  • 2014/15 = 12
  • 2015/16 = 3

The information was released by Welwyn Hatfield Council following a request under the Freedom of Information Act.
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Offline Ferdie

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #443 on: July 30, 2016, 08:10:34 pm »
The fines I believe have recently been increased, http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/fly_tipping_crackdown_continues_as_new_fines_introduced_1_4615336 but still quite low if viewed against the costs they charge for legitimately paying for its collection, so where is the incentive to pay? However, these are fines, not prosecutions, where the amounts involved have been a lot higher, but in very small number. Clearly not sufficient as a deterrent judging by the amounts that continue to appear. Prosecutions are rare, due to the need to prove evidence. The cost to the tax payer of removal of the waste dumped consistently exceeds the amounts recovered in fines and prosecutions.
 

Offline Editor

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #444 on: August 01, 2016, 06:12:09 pm »
In a field just off Grubbs Lane alongside the footpath from the A1000.
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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #445 on: August 03, 2016, 09:00:23 am »
Be careful if driving or riding a bike down Bradmore Lane. I've just walked past a load of fly tipping and noticed that pieces of glass and ceramic tiles have spilt across the road. I have reported it to the council as usual.
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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #446 on: August 04, 2016, 01:58:52 pm »
FREE: Lightly-stained double mattress, recently dumped at bend in Bradmore Lane. Ideal for someone who has low standards and is not that fussy about living in a tip. Must collect.
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Offline larrylamb

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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #447 on: August 04, 2016, 04:27:55 pm »
FREE: Lightly-stained double mattress, recently dumped at bend in Bradmore Lane. Ideal for someone who has low standards and is not that fussy about living in a tip. Must collect.
Great offer but can I sleep on it?
 
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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #448 on: August 04, 2016, 05:20:48 pm »
Great offer but can I sleep on it?
;D Boom boom
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Re: Fly tipping in the local countryside
« Reply #449 on: August 06, 2016, 04:55:09 pm »
The byway (14) between Wildhill and Essendon has been totally blocked at the junction with West End Lane with a massive load of rubbish. Take care if you walk that way. Horses & bikes won't be able to get through until it's cleared. Police are aware.
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