Author Topic: Inconsiderate neighbours  (Read 20430 times)

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John_fraser

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2002, 11:36:41 pm »
Is my opinion really so unbelievable? If I had written a reply that was sympathetic, as others did, would that have been dismissed as unbelievable even though I would have hand no more first had experience?

Do I think my children may be causing aggravation? No! Do I think some people may be aggravated by my children? Well that is a very different question. I remember about three years ago there was a story about a mother and baby who had been thrown off a bus because the baby would not stop crying. The mother had had to walk, if I remember correctly, three miles home with the child. People even wrote into the paper commending the driver’s action.  But what on Earth was the mother supposed to do? Could those with the magic trick of keeping babies and children quiet please tell us poor mortal parents how! Believe me every parent in the world would be eternally grateful. As a parent you try to teach children manners, consideration and right from wrong, but this isn’t exactly a quick process that can be completed before you let them out of the house. I might also add that you to teach them tolerance too.

Children can be annoying, although I don’t think they can reasonably be compared to load music, be it Reggie or Rachmaninoff. Consideration is a two way street. Their right to play is as great as anyone’s right to silence. But I suppose the question really boils down to “Is the family in question allowing their children to cause continual aggravation to their neighbours?” That question will never get resolved in a debating forum like this. I can suggest an way to resolve it, that won’t break the rules of this site. Mail the the doubters the general location of the house in question (e.g. Bluebridge Road near the end of Bluebridge Avenue). If the family are as bad as claimed, a couple of walks on warm afternoons should allow the doubters to understand the scale of the problem.

John

P.S.

If it is Bluebridge Road near the end of Bluebridge Avenue then it probably is my family
« Last Edit: June 19, 2002, 11:39:58 pm by John_fraser »
 

Offline anna

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2002, 12:43:14 am »
John,

I imagine from what Astra says, this is an extreme situation. ANd lets face it, we have all been out at the shops and heard parents shouting at kids.......kids screaming back and the whole episode normally ends in a smack from the parents, which only makes the child scream more. As a parent that makes my blood boil.

Like you, I believe that I have very well behaved children and I have worked hard to achieve this, however, I'm not having a go at any one person, but from reading this thread, I almost feel guilty just for having children! I find some of the posts very accusing.......and haven't bothered to answer them.

I really feel for Astra, it must be horrid to have constant noise.  But on one post, (and I won't say the name) someone posted saying, " Having asked a few people at random I have been astounded when they say that people that I have considered to be most respectable are in fact very painfull to live next to, strange? " Now I am getting paranoid, have you been questioning my neighbours!

As for saying two wrongs down make a right.........I can assure you as a parent I say this to my children all the time. But sometimes you have to show people why their actions are annoying them. If Astra keeps telling her neighbours how much this noise is affecting her, and they are not listening, perhaps if Astra blew a whistle at 11pm, and disturbed them, you are purely giving them an insight as to what its like. I'm not for one minute suggesting, that she goes round and wacks them one.
When one of my kids went through a biting stage, I tried everything to stop it.......eventually I bit her back, (not hard) to show her how much it hurt........she never did it again. I was not doing something wrong, I was demonstrating how much it could hurt. She now tells me its wrong to bite! So the lesson was learnt and we are both friends. (and before anyone has a go, it was a health professional that recommended that to me!)

To compare me to Cherie Blair, I'm afraid I find totally insulting. Her comments were pure ignorance, and best I do not comment on that subject any further.

I think everyone is supporting Astra, and trying to offer means of solution..........isn't that what this forum is for. Its a shame that every time we get a good healthy debate it turns to personal attack, and I end up drawing away again because it makes me so angry.
 

Offline jet

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2002, 12:56:55 am »
Dear John,
Please read my post, I am refering to screaming and shouting which penetrates double glazing in the furthest room of the house, above the television and caused by 8 year olds.
For what its worth I don't recall ever hearing a noise at your location which I walk past at various times most days, although out the back may be different.
It seems that according to you, your children make a noise, therefore it must spoil the peace of the area  and perhaps it may be worth your while to consider if you are spoiling things for others, I don't know its for you as a responsible adult to decide? Perhaps you don't care and your children can do no wrong?
I assure you that if you got on my nerves you would be politly informed, and before you take exception I don't think we are at cross purposes anyway.
Well we have 140 registered on the site and only say 20 regulars post, it would be nice to have some comments about anything from any lurkers out there,
Come on y'all I'm fed up with being the biggest grouse around here.
regards,
jet
 

Offline jet

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2002, 01:13:18 am »
Dear Anna,
I compared you to Cherie B. because you made a comment which I felt was not fully thought out inciting me to do wrong, and I apologised for it. This is exactly what the Blair Witch did. It was nothing to do with the Middle East. You seem to feel your children are being blamed for something .which is certainly not true.
I have not refered to your family in any way, my comments were about people I had spoken to in my area, and their comments were not prompted by me.
Finally as I have just said to John F. All this thread has managed to do is set decent people against each other with no good result.
You say people are supporting Astra, is it because she is female? I am male and have the same problem from the same people?
I will keep my problems to myself in future.
regards,
jet
« Last Edit: June 20, 2002, 01:17:01 am by jet »
 

Offline MC

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2002, 01:37:31 am »
I do find these debates quite extraordinary.

Jet has just said "All this thread has managed to do is set decent people against each other with no good result."

Quite so.

Again.

Do Jet and Astra really think that children should be seen and not heard; silenced immediately and banned from restaurants etc ? Of course not.

Does John really think that screaming children, hours of whistle blowing and banging on sheds is acceptable behaviour? I cannot believe that.

However yet again we do have a very valid concern posted by someone that is simply degenerating into a slanging match.

I've said this before but I will say it again. If people can't master the art of compromise this whole forum is fairly pointless. It is not a competition to see who can have the last word. People seem to be reading things into other people's posts - rather than actually reading the posts fully - just so that they can get on their soapbox about a particular topic.

I'm sorry to preach on this but it's ridiculous. Everybody here has proven themselves sane and intelligent by virtue of their posts in the past. I find it very hard to believe that anybody materially disagrees on this topic so why argue the toss about it?

If we were all being community-spirited (which I thought was the point of all this) we would be jointly figuring out what course of action might be acceptable and wise based on the multitude of viewpoints available.

Anyway nuff said.

To lighten the mood everybody who posts on this topic from now on has to give a prediction for the score in the England game on Friday.

Mark
« Last Edit: June 20, 2002, 01:40:43 am by MC »
 

Astra

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2002, 01:47:51 am »
Dear all

What have I started.  In some ways you are responding exactly as  I would expect.  You are defending your children and rightly so.  But you are also looking to see if there may be a problem that you may not have noticed before.  If you have not received any compaints from your neighbours then you are obviously doing something RIGHT.  As I said before, I applaud you and congratulate you if that is the case.

I was under the impression that one of the uses of this forum was a way of making others aware of problems encountered by the residents of this village.  I have a problem along with quite a few others in this village which is caused by a minority of inconsiderate parents.

Anna, James, MC and Sasquartch - I am sure that you are not my problem but thank you for your comments and support.

One thing I will say before I go, I would love to think that blowing a loud whistle  at 11pm at night would have some effect but it wouldn't.  You may have to line up a few ambulances to take the elderly neighbours to hospital after I have frightened them half to death with the din.

Astra
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2002, 03:16:27 am »
MC

Couldn't agree more (as usual)!

My Tuppence - Confrontational tactics very rarely (if ever?) work. As far as I can remember back from the start of the thread where I last posted, Astra has not yet contacted the authorities - whether because she does not want to because it will have an effect on selling her house, or whatever other reason there may be. I still strongly think that trying the 'legal' option first rather than confrontational behaviour would be better and more likely to get the desired result. Other people have said 'use it as it is the last option' - hang on, if the council/police etc haven't been involved then it isn't the last option!

Those who know me know that I do a lot of voluntary work with other people's children (it's much nicer that way - I can send them home when I get fed up with them :) ). I have also lodged in a house in the village for two years with children aged 4 to 12 at the time. Normal childhood playing noises - fine - not a problem. I can fully understand that screaming kids yelling at the top of their voices would drive me bananas after about two minutes. Whatever I did though, I still don't believe it would be confrontational, as I can't really see what that would achieve.

Like Mark, I don't really see much point in continuing this discussion - we are all now aware of the problem, and several of us have offered (widly different!) solutions. I really think it is up to Astra to take the one that she likes the look of best and go and try it - whether it's confrontational behaviour, contacting the authorities or something else. It would be great to know what the result of whatever you do is though! Just sitting here going round in circles however isn't really going to solve anything.

And just to keep Mark happy - England win 2-1 with Golden Goal rule. Let's face it - we haven't played Germany yet in this competition (apart from the qualifying of course...) so we can't go out yet!  

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline jet

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2002, 01:03:06 pm »
Confrontation, mediation and " solution" allways end up with one of the people ( generally the innocent party)involved moving house at some time in the near future, because of the sour taste and indignation felt by the faulty party and the atmosphere of hate which prevails.
I refer to articles I have read and seen in the media over the last few years on this matter.
The police, well I have no faith in them whatsoever, and will never use them except for an insurance crime number, god forbid I will ever need one.
I moved within this village to get away from what can only be described as the neighbours from hell. ( The same people have caused aggro to dozens of people). When I went to talk with the "chap" about his continual dog barking, sons loud music etc etc ( we could switch the sound off on our telly watch the program and hear it from next door).I was threatened with being " knocked out" and thrown off his premises. I had to let it happen because of my martial training. The result well our police man warned me for threatening behaviour. Should I have fought fire with fire and hit him?, perhaps a criminal record would have saved me from loosing £20K?We moved after 10 happy years and lost over 15% of the house value.
Over the last 7 years I have watched this area go from posh and respectable to the beginings of coarse and brash. Perhaps it is because people like my self from North London have moved in and dragged it down.?
My wife and myself have worked all our lives, we have paid off our mortgage, we have a lovelly property and I thought we had "made it". Not so it would seem. As soon as the right property comes up abroad, we are off, following the example of quite a few around here that have had to do the same. :'(
regards,
jet
P.S. ( There is allways a P.S.) James like Anna, you wish Astra well with her problem, but not me?, am I really that horrible or is it paranoia  down the quacks time for me? ;)
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2002, 02:39:21 pm »
I agree with MC, the debate has just become a soapbox for people wanting to argue almost for the sake of it and get the last word. Its clear from the length and content of the postings that we not only have the time to compose reasoned and lengthy messages but enjoy it too. I have to admit that I do, otherwise I wouldn't participate. Have I got the last word ? I don't think so !
It's interesting that of the 800 or so total posts of the forum so far, around a quarter are just from one person. Probably a handful of others make up the majority of the remainder. So, not really either representative of the wider BP community or as MC says acheiving much either.

Astra, I think you have to take some action, simply discussing your problem will not solve the problem ultimately. I agree with James, you have to go down the official channels first, at least give the 'authorities' a chance, although I'm not that confident a solution can be reached that way. You have my sympathies, clearly all the people in the debate with children seem to take their responsibilities seriously, as usual its the actions of a few that spoil things for the majority.

England v Brazil ? 1:0 to England, scored in extra time.
 

Astra

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2002, 04:04:05 pm »
Dear James & Sasquartch

I have to agree with you.  I think that my problems have had a reasonable airing and now we are going round in circles.  The advice and support that I have received on this site has been very encouraging and informative.  I do sometimes feel that I have lit the blue touchpaper and tried to retire gracefully only to find the firework back in my hand.

I feel for Jet also.  He is experiencing the same problems as me but, I hate to say this, he is getting very little support from the people posting on this site. (including myself)  Hopefully some of the messages  sent to me will help and encourage him.

I will not be posting again on this subject (except maybe to keep you updated on anything further that happens)

Thank you all once again

Astra


 

Offline MC

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2002, 04:44:07 pm »
3 quick thoughts :

1 - Astra do please keep us up to date on progress or hopefully results. It may yield something others can learn from

2 - I must be guilty of not reading postings fully either; Jet, I didn't realise you also are experiencing similar problems right now. I think you should both report back for the reasons given in 1) above

3 - with regard to this forum representing the wider BP then no, I don' think it does. However  we should remember that most people just "don't bother". Therefore statistically the postings of 20 people probably representing the views of 2000. So it's not as bad as it might look.

Mark
 

Offline jet

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2002, 05:40:30 pm »
Dear Sas,
Why not just say jets posted 200 times and be done with it?
I have tried to start threads to encourage others and I have replied to other people out of both personal interest and politeness.
I have only ever posted with good intent,  been frank and honest.
The result seems to be negative in general.
I will give the site some time off as I did recently.
Any one want to say anything to me then they can instant message me.
The wooshing sound is my teddy being hurled into corner.
regards
jet
« Last Edit: June 20, 2002, 05:41:40 pm by jet »
 

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2002, 12:23:58 am »
Now then jet, can't have you going off in a strop. You're the only one who posts interesting (and often amusing) messages. Come back!

England 1 Brazil 0

;)
Confucius he say "a dog is for life not just for Christmas Dinner"
 

Mary_Morgan

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2002, 01:31:40 am »
England 2 Brazil 1 - and in normal time - my nerves won't stand extra time or penalties.

Really have no comment on neighbours from heaven knows where.  I have never experienced it as much of a problem - only a slight one, and I don't have any kids of my own. Perhaps I am lucky, perhaps I am not ;)

Astra and Jet I wish you luck in sorting it - hopefully peacefully.  

Alf - shouldn't think Jet's strop will last too long - it didn't the  last time.  He is too naturaly curious to see what is going on and to say something.
;)
Mary

 

Offline Bob

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2002, 02:46:19 am »
For what it is worth, when my kids were young if they went into a restaurant it was on the understanding that if they misbehaved they were straight back out, it being our responsibility as parents to make sure that they didn't spoil anybody elses meal. They were never taken out and we could take them anywhere. The same thing applied for any other situation - we had to control them.
If parents don't control their own children what chance do the teachers at school stand (slippery slopes spring to mind)
Both of mine went to Chancellors by the way and both my wife and I spent a considerable amount of our spare time involved in the PTA events and we are very happy with the way that our kids turned out.
Bob
(just in case anybody wonders why somebody from Cuffley is so interested in Brookmans Park - it's a bit like a second home)
Bob
 

John_fraser

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2002, 11:12:32 am »
We all have rights e.g. to be free of noise pollution or to let off steam – and responsibilities. Responsibilities limit your – or your children’s - ability to exercise your rights when they start adversely affecting other people. The question here is: Does this family fail to find the right balance? Without experiencing it myself I decline to comment further on this specific example.

On the wider question of badly behaved children: I know of a  few parents who fail to control their children, but very few. Sadly pre school children are not well behaved by nature because they have yet to learn that mis-behaviour will be punished. Anyone with a child going through “the terrible twos” knows just how tiring this can be. I’ve threatened ours with being taken “straight back out” and, as they are generally well behaved, seldom had to exercise this. But are forced to make your threats reality sometimes before they learn the lesson and always behave.

On the off topic discussion on the difference between discussion, debates and “slanging match” I think this should be restarted in a different thread. In case no-one starts one, I’d like to add that Personally I JET’s comments valuable, even if I frequently disagree with them. I just wish I had time to make more of my own. Even if the vast majority of the comments come from a few individuals, and I think I rank about 5th, it’s a free country and any one can contribute. In any case there is probably a large number of lurkers "entertained" by the discussion.
 

Offline anna

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2002, 01:39:27 pm »
Why don't you start the thread John? I don't think anyone on here has a problem with healthy debate. Isn't that the point of this forum?

Its finger pointing and personal insults I think people have a problem with? However, I try to keep out of it once it gets to a slagging match and just withdraw from the debate. Just as I teach my kids........don't let things get to you, just walk away because that makes you a bigger person!
 

John_fraser

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2002, 02:21:45 pm »
Mostly lack of time. I posted today's stuff while watching the game and now my heart isn't in my work. But I have to start working before the boss spots that what I'm doing.
 

Offline Ann

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Re: Inconsiderate neighbours
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2002, 12:04:03 am »
Times have changed, when I was child,if a neighbour complained about my ball going into their garden or the noise I was making my parents would be mortified.

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but cosideration for others, is how I was brought up!

I do feel sorry for thoes who have to put up with others who's  thoughts are only for themselves.

Where my mother lives, we do not have such a problem, the children do make a noise in the garden,but not to the extent that we have to complain.

Anyway I would hate to think that I could not approach a neighbour if something upset me.

My thoughts go out to people who are experiencing problems.
 

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