Author Topic: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan  (Read 10180 times)

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Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« on: September 13, 2003, 10:27:13 am »
This site has been asked to be part of planning for a North Mymms Parish Travel Plan. Click here to read more. What would you want to see improved? After voting, it would also be interesting if you could add your reasoning to the thread below the vote. I have removed the option that 'this site should not be involved'. Apologies to the person who voted for that. Please feel free to make that point in the thread below. Please feel free to add any other ideas, not mentioned above. The preliminary meeting for this scheme will take place in October.
Thanks
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John_fraser

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2003, 11:15:14 pm »
I find it a little hard to vote on this. The “reduced school run” and the “less speeding” are goals rather than actions. Both are laudable, but I am unconvinced that the four actions listed would result in this happening. Of these four, I can see equal merit and issues with each.

More Buses
In seven years I have only once caught a bus from this village. I have no real idea where the buses go or what times they run at. They appear to be very infrequent, but I am unconvinced that more buses would be used. Most people have cars and will not get on a bus when they can drive. If there were more buses I imagine they would be mostly empty.

More Trains
I moved here for the train service and it is my sole means of getting to work. While I would like more trains, they pretty much run twice an hour at all times. Maybe if they ran a little latter I’d be happier after the Christmas Party, but I don’t see more trains as being value for money. It would be nice for the ticket office to be open longer and/or the ticket machine to be replaced. It is very annoying at Potter’s Bar to have to walk around the outside of the station to get to the taxies and busses in the evening and a way to reopen this passage could be found.

Another, although expensive, way to make the trains at BP more accessible, would be to move the platforms to the outside of the station, like they are at Welham Green. This would mean the two fast lines would not have a platform, but as they don’t stop here, that shouldn’t be a problem. This would allow the platforms to be accessed by ramps. The current steps must make the station unusable for anyone with reduced mobility, including mothers with babies in prams as well as the old or infirm. This would also straighten the slow line, which may have some advantage to the non stopping trains.

Less Speeding
Yes please. Previous threads have suggested ways to slow traffic – put the hump back on the bridge on Bluebridge Road, Use the “Gate Posts” on Myms Drive – and they seem workable. But as we have had a traffic calming measure removed on Dixons Hill Road, I can’t see it happening.

Park and ride
Can’t see where you’d ride to. If this means make the station carparks free, then yes. Potters Bar is a natural place to drop your car off and get into London quickly. Making the car park free should encourage use of the train and reduce car journeys into London. But as we are shortly to lose the free car park here, I can’t see it happening.

Better scheduled road repairs
Or even any road repairs! The roads round here are a disgrace, but they do at least help to keep the speeds down.

Reduced school run
Yes, but how? Well we could start by getting the schools to use an admissions system that minimised the distance children had to travel – of the two schools in BP, one already does – and get the schools to implement a travel policy to help reduce car journeys – oddly enough, of the two schools in BP, one already does.
 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2003, 11:28:39 pm »
Perhaps the options offered in the vote were not very good John. What would you suggest should go into a North Mymms Parish Travel Plan? Those carrying out the research are keen to hear the views of people living in the area and suggested this forum might be a good way forward. All ideas added to this thread will be passed on.
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Offline Zorro

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2003, 01:42:54 am »
eye theenkmucho moro provisionies for 'orses, soome water troughs, eetching rails an ov coorse eens for zee riders,
up tornado away.......
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Offline john

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2003, 11:52:43 am »
Presumably Mouchel have published a basic assessment of:
~  transportation factors (eg  travel to work/ shopping/ etc patterns; car ownership/ household rates; travel patterns & route-loading; etc)
~  their/ HCC/ WHDC priorities ...
~  proposed resourcing  -  sources, budget-holders, capital and recurrent funding available by source and financial year ...
without which the issues for the community cannot be identified and realistically addressed.  Without that context, the "NMTP" is surely going to be left struggling in a vacuum ?

Is this fundamental info available somewhere for our enlightenment please ?

best wishes  -  john f (rvc)


 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2003, 12:06:44 pm »
I think they are still gathering all the information. That is probably why they want to meet to discuss these issues. The idea was that this forum might be one way of finding out what needs there are in the area. The problem might be that the people most in need of improved travel facilities in the area are those who might not have cars or other means of getting around and who might not be online to express those views. Leafleting and other awareness campaigns are all part of their plans I think. We will know more when we meet their representatives, probably next month. More details will be posted on the site then.
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John_fraser

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2003, 12:10:04 am »
Now I have to be constructive :(

Ok objective – ignoring any financial constraints – which I see as see as desirable.

1 - Reduce car journeys
2 - Improve access to public transport

Clearly one helps the other. I already mentioned about improving access to BP station and it might be worth seeing how many people can’t or won’t use the station due to the steps. A cheaper and quicker task, which also needs doing, would be to fix the light on the way down to the station.

To improve the use of buses I think we’d have to accept that most residence have access to a car and won’t busses unless:
1 – They don’t have to change bus to get where they are going
2 – They will have a maximum wait of less than twenty minutes
3 – The bus stop is less than a five minute walk from their house
4 – The buses run at reasonable times i.e. they don’t stop running before you want to get back
5 – The buses go somewhere you want to go.
6 – Its cheep enough that you are willing to put up with the inconvenience

I know 4 and 5 are obvious, but sometimes you do wonder if you need to state them. So I see two bus routes, running every 20 minutes between 8am and midnight.

Route 1
High Barnet Station – Potters Bar – Myms Drive – Moffets Lane – Bradmore Green – Dixons Hill Road – Conoly Heath – Sava Center – St Albans Maltings – St Albans’ Station

Route 2
Enfield Chase Station - Potters Bar – Myms Drive – Moffets Lane – Bradmore Green – Dixons Hill Road – Galleria – QE2 Hospital – WGC Station.

These would get us to the main town centres and shops and, because they connect to the tube and to two different BR lines, they give us alternative routes in and out of London when the trains were playing up. They would also provide another way for Chancellor’s pupils to get to school without having to be driven.

The cost will have to be low i.e. subsidised. The train to WGC is a stupid price; I can drive my familiar there and park for less money than the cost of our fair, and that doesn’t include the greater convenience created by my car. I think the maximum fair for a journey from BP/WG would have to be £1 or £1.50 return.
 

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2003, 01:09:22 am »
I think John's comment regarding cheapness of fares is important. When Mrs Great and I were first married we lived in Crouch End and I had to get to Whetstone each day to work. At that time Ken Livingstone had his "Fares Fair" scheme going on the buses, 25p flat rate for any length journey (or was it 20p). So believe it or not I left the beetle on the drive (original 1300 type with windscreen washer powered by the spare wheel) and walked 0.75 mile to Archway Road to catch the 263 bus, and then back again in the evening, just because it saved about 5p each day! And sometimes I had shopping to carry as well!

So there you go, make the fares cheap enough and the buses frequent enough (and reliable) and you might even tempt me.

ATG
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Offline James Bentall

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2003, 01:28:18 am »
I would certainly use a bus which went to St Albans fairly regularly. At the moment I think the problem with the bus is that it effectively just follows the route of the train, calling at much the same places, but only saving about 10p on the price of the ticket and is much slower!

James
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Offline Reginald

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2003, 01:06:07 pm »
In Hertfordshire it is reasonably easy to travel North - South. How about some more thought to East-West. I work in Ware, and we are always being encouraged to try to look at alternative ways to get to work than using cars. For me it would mean at least 2 hours by public transport - against 25-30 minutes by car (20 when the ankle biters are on holiday!!!)  ???
« Last Edit: September 16, 2003, 01:06:45 pm by Reginald »
 

Offline eric

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2003, 05:21:21 pm »
An easy guide for Jarvis as to how to assemble points properly -
 

John_fraser

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2003, 04:45:51 pm »
Another nice to have that goes against the tide would be to have a train going further north than WGC. Currently it takes three trains to get to Cambridge so I always drive. Even once an hour would help.
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2003, 05:37:51 pm »
Can't see that happening unless you've got a couple of spare million lying around to widen the viaduct north of WGC to allow more trains through ;D

I believe that Cambridge trains run from Potters Bar and Hatfield so surely you should only have to change once?

James
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Offline Susan

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2003, 11:13:49 pm »
Is there an alternative route for pedestrians between BP and Welham Green, other than the main road? It's such a short distance, but it makes for an unpleasant walk.

Lots of people must use the route to visit the doctor, drop off children at school or Willowbrook etc. Someone told me she thought there was a footpath that ran between Peplins Way and the community centre in WG. I rang the footpath officer at the county council, but she hadn't heard of it. Does anyone know of one?

I've walked the route a few times this term to take my elder child to nursery, but don't know if I'll do it for much longer. The path is narrow and overgrown in places, particularly as I also have the pushchair for my younger child, and some cars/vans go so fast that I don't feel very safe.
 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2003, 11:36:50 pm »
Hi Susan,

No, there isn't a footpath between Peplins Way and the Community Centre I'm afraid. The footpath alongside Station Road is the only way.

If you had a spare 40 mins you could head up Brookmans Avenue, up Golf Club Road, cut through the track behind Chancellor's and down through Bell Lane to the bend where you will find a footpath which will take you alongside the northside of The Legg and Pelins Wood, coming out by the railway bridge on Bulls Lane where you can take a path on the left through to the Community Centre. However I wouldn't do it with young ones.

Click here for a map and route for that walk
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John_fraser

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2003, 11:37:08 pm »
 Looking at my old OS Landranger 166 map - which I haven't opened in 6 years - there doesn't appear to be a footpath marked there.
 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2003, 12:41:15 am »
Having said all that, trying to either improve the footpath along the edge of Station Road to make it wider/incoporate cycle lane or making a completely new footpath/bridleway linking the two villages would be fantastic. It could encourage, for example, people who live in WG but whos children go to Brookmans Park to walk/cycle instead of driving. It could encourage more Young People from Brookmans Park to use the facilities of the Youth and Community Centre and grounds if they could get there more easily and safely.

Is this the sort of thing that could be covered by PEAP or a travel plan?
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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2003, 01:35:28 am »
The first Parish Travel Plan meeting took place on Monday night, 6 October. North Mymms Parish Council will decide, later this month, whether to give its backing to the scheme. More details here.
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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2004, 09:59:09 am »
A number of posts to the North Mymms Parish Environmental Action Plan (PEAP) thread began to overlap into territory that should be covered by the North Mymms Parish Travel Plan (PTP) initiative.

This site was invited, by Hertfordshire County Council, to take part in both initiatives, and it is still early days, with no certainty that either will become established yet. Preliminary meetings are still being held to assess feasibility.

To try to keep discussion themes together, I have moved PTP related issues from the PEAP thread to this one so that anyone wanting to following up some of the points made by other correspondents can do so in this thread leaving the PEAP thread for environmental rather than travel-related issues. It's a bit of a messy way to do it, and apologies for that, but we have yet to download the technology to enable us to split and splice threads, so this will have to do for now.

Thanks

DB

This from Birch on 07/21/03 at 10:37:53
Quote
I think this is a very good idea, but currently I am concerned about traffic flow through Welham Green.  Since the chicane was removed there is nothing to slow traffic down.

Especially difficult is turning right out of Travellers Lane from the train station as traffic races over the bridge which is a blind spot.  Often the way looks clear until you've pulled halfway out when a car will rush over at well over 40mph.  Something should be done to calm traffic before it reaches the railway bridge and then hopefully through the village their speed will be checked.
I personally have seen 2 crashes at this spot, presumably there have been more.Birch

This from Mary Morgan on 09/06/03 at 19:14:07
Quote
Birch, Ever thought about turning left out of the station and going up to the roundabout and doing a U turn.  Much much safer.     I have done it many times coming out of the shops in Dellsome Lane rather than trying to turn right to go down Dixons Hill to my house.  (how long did it take me - minimal.
It wont stop the speeding traffic through the village, but it will make your life a lot safer.
Mary


This from jet on 09/07/03 at 00:56:30
Quote
It used to be illegal to do a U turn at a roundabout , it is still very bad practise unless one makes ones intentions absolutely clear and receives an acknowlegement of those intentions.
Of course most men make allowences and assume that lady drivers need a few circuits before guessing which direction they wish to choose.
I think this deseres male MCP of the year award :)
regards,
jet


This from Mary Morgan on 09/07/03 at 21:30:11
Quote
Jet, yes, MCP of the year.  And also totally crass.  >:(It is not an offense to do a U turn at a roundabout.
"When taking the last exit or going full circle
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want" (Highway Code)
If it was once, it was a rule made by men.  It takes women to suggest a safer alternative.
How on earth are you supposed to get to the other side of a dual carriageway if you don't do a U turn at the first available roundabout.
Do you really think it it safer to try and come out of Travellers and turn right into Dixons Hill,  than it is to turn left and go round the roundabout and come back.  I suggest you might like to try it - especially in the morning or evening rush hour. Still we have digressed (Birch, Me and Jet) from the subject.
Mary


This from jet on 09/08/03 at 13:15:23
Quote
I said it "USED" to be illegal, please read rather than be blinded by the wish to catch me out.
It reffered in earlier times to single track roads, not dual carriageways at the time.
Although I do not have a great big 4WD even my modest car cannot do a u turn at that roundabout, the road is not wide enough.
Oh I have just fell in, we are talking junction with A1000, I thought we were on about the mini roundabout.
It is however a fact that people assume that when they are at a roundabout that a person joining from the left in front of them is not going all the way round and that their indication to turn right means just that. It is common for cars to pull out assuming that car is not going to go right round, then crash....regards,
jet


This from Mary Morgan on 09/08/03 at 21:02:16
Quote
Jet ...... and you accuse others of not reading what you write.   I would be very clever to turn left out of Travellers and end up at the mini roundabout!!   Your modest car is far more capable than my 4x4 of negotiating a mini roundabout - I am perfectly well aware of the fact.  I am not a stupid women, I do know how to drive, and if you follow the rules of the Highway Code, there is no reason for anyone to assume you are doing anything else but fully rotating the roundabout.  I was making an observation about dual carriageways, fully realising (I lived there for 10 years!!) that Dixons is not a dual carriageway.  
"enable me to buy a 4WD"  truth will out - you are really jealous of us who have them ;)
MM


This from jet on 09/08/03 at 21:38:08
Quote
I made a mistake about the RA and I admitted it.
My car has a 33 ft turning circle and will not go round a mini roundabout, it is a gentlemans saloon, not a 4WD tonka toy.
One can emulate the highway code as much as one likes, it does not mean that everyone follows it or have momentary lapses caused perhaps by multi tasking, very difficult for males, its a fact things go wrong.
4WDs are inapropriate in this area, they are bullying gas guzzling smoky diesel engined things, so complex as to need diabolical levels of aftercare.
As for the countryside wherever the townies have not destroyed ,the farmers manage to ruin quite easily with EU sponsered silly environmentally unfriendly schemes.
I have never accused anyone of being stupid or a stupid woman. mind you as I am apparently crass perhaps I have done so without realising it. I avoid personal remarks on this forum as it detracts from the quality of the site, I do of course make generalisations which are up to the individual to agre or dissagree with as they wish.


This from Trinity on 01/16/04 at 23:55:48
Quote
I didn't think the chicanes were a good idea - they caused horrible queues at times. But I must that admit whilst I agreed with their being removed, I'd assumed that something else would take their place - square bumps or even a Gatso. Nothing has.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2004, 10:11:17 am by admin »
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Offline Vince

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2004, 02:31:41 am »
I would like to add my vote for an East/West bus service. In particular I would like to be able to get into St Albans for the evening and home again at a time which would allow my wife and I to have a meal without watching the clock all evening.  That means at least midnight.

I have had similar comments on http://www.welhamgreen.com (sadly now lost when the guest book died) and can confirm that others in Welham Green would also use that service.
Vince
 

Offline Vince

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2004, 02:35:48 am »
While I am here I would like to add that there is a footpath between Brookman's Park station and Potters Bar station which runs alongside the railway.  This is very level but unkept and seriously potted with rabbit holes and overgrown.  This would make a fantastic cycle track of approx 1 mile in length to a destination which is 3 miles by road and life threatening on a bicycle.
Vince
 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2004, 09:00:28 am »
Quote

I have had similar comments on http://www.welhamgreen.com (sadly now lost when the guest book died) and can confirm that others in Welham Green would also use that service.
Vince
Hi Vince, welcome to the site. Sorry to hear about the guest book. Please feel free to point your http://www.welhamgreen.com users in the direction of this forum if they want to join the PTP or PEAP debates, or if they want to discuss any other local issues. This site is for the whole of North Mymms, not just Brookmans Park, so they are more than welcome to join in and post on Welham Green issues. The two sites can share this forum if you like. Mail me, or message me through the forum if you want to discuss.

David
« Last Edit: January 28, 2004, 09:02:12 am by admin »
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Offline john

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2004, 11:38:59 am »
Taking up Vince's point, a suggestion was made years ago for a Green Route (pedestrians, cycles & hooves):

~  up from PB Station on the west side of the railway to the Hawkshead Lane railway bridge

~  then cross the bridge ...

~  then along an improved route along the EAST side of the railway line (a combination of existing PROW and wide strip of Network Rail land) direct in to the BP Station car park & village centre:  thus greatly improving the attraction for use ...

bw  -  j


 

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2004, 10:30:26 pm »
I'm just reading this section of the Forum for the first time, and came across the vote.  I ticked the "more buses" proposal, specifically thinking of being able to travel from Welham Green into St Albans for a meal in the evenings.   I heartily agree with Vince.  Just a small 12-seater bus would be adequate.

 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2004, 11:22:29 pm »
John

I'm not too sure whether the residents of Westland Drive would be particularly thrilled to have a public right of way created at the bottom of their gardens? Would it not be easier to improve the existing path on the other side of the railway line, or are there reason(s) why this could not be done?

James

I too would find a bus service to St Albans and would be an occasional user - anyone else?
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AgentOrange

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2004, 12:38:52 am »
I think the existing path could be improved significantly. It would be a great idea to have a BP - PB cycle route that avoided the A1000 or the back roads. It could be used as a means to reduce the school run into both BP and PB as well as the number of car trips to PB. I certainly would use it at least 3 times a week. If we could get a cycle lane from BP station upto Chancellors ( via the road to the golf club and then across) pressure could be exerted to reduce the school run traffic in BP. It would also help reduce the problem of 'obese kids' that we hear so much about - not that I'm callling anyone at Chancellors fat! The same goes for any schools in PB. Can we get SUSTRANS involved - they are keen to raise the number of school kids cycling in the UK if it can be done safely? Given some money from them and some from the council can we make the route a reality? 8)
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2004, 02:09:15 am »
I'm getting sufficiently motivated by the cycle path idea to try and do something about it- particularly as other people seem to be as well. I feel a route from Brookmans Park to Potters Bar would hopefully be well used - not only by school children going to/from Chancellors/Mount Grace, but also vet college students and other local residents. I know because I have spoken to some parents from Welham Green that a cycle path between there and Brookmans Park alongside Station Road would be useful in encouraging them to cycle to the village schools with their children.

Anyone who is interested in helping me, please contact me either by instant message or email - yabb_brookmans@jimney.org.uk - particularly anyone with any bright ideas, or who knows anything about getting cycle paths built... I have just fired off emails to one or two people who might know something - will post back on the forum if I get any positive response.

James
« Last Edit: February 13, 2004, 02:10:52 am by James_Bentall »
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Offline Margaret

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2004, 10:22:20 am »
Not sure how I can help, but willing to give it a go.
 

AgentOrange

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2004, 12:24:49 pm »
Sustrans have a 'safe routes to school' initiative and lists some of the sources of funding and other help. They I am sure would have advice on getting cycle paths built. Their website can be found at this web address: http://www.saferoutestoschools.org.uk. I think we would have to get the schools involved to provide parking for bikes and to make the kids enthusiastic about the idea. Glad to help, but not sure how.
 

AgentOrange

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Re: Ideas for the North Mymms Travel Plan
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2004, 12:28:38 pm »
You might also try this person - I got the name off of the web so its public domain knowledge anyway:-
Hertfordshire County Council
Contact: Abigail Foster, Senior Engineer & County Cycling Of  
Tel: 01992 556116
Email:  
Website: hertsdirect.org
I presume they mean Officer!
 

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