Poll

Which of the following were the top three reasons in your list? Please use the other option if I have missed your objection and feel free to expand on the point in the thread. I have set the poll for three votes per person.

Building on green belt
7 (21.2%)
Local/national development policy
0 (0%)
Local/national recycling strategy
2 (6.1%)
The local environment/nature
7 (21.2%)
Emissions and air quality
9 (27.3%)
Size and aesthetics
2 (6.1%)
Traffic implications
4 (12.1%)
Blight and effect on house prices
2 (6.1%)
Other (please add details below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: August 28, 2013, 09:38:08 am

Linked Events

  • Environment Agency consultation drop in session on incinerat: March 22, 2012
  • Environment Agency public consultation on incinerator operat: April 18, 2012
  • Incinderator planning meeting - Campus West: July 19, 2012
  • Waste Sites Allocations Public Hearing, County Hall, Hertford: September 03, 2013 - September 05, 2013
  • Incinerator protest Fielder Centre, Hatfield Business Park: September 10, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry, Fielder Centre, Hatfield Bus Park: September 10, 2013 - September 12, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: September 17, 2013 - September 19, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: September 24, 2013 - September 26, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 08, 2013 - October 10, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 15, 2013 - October 17, 2013
  • Incinerator Public Inquiry Ramada Comet Hotel or other: October 22, 2013 - October 24, 2013
  • Waste Sites Allocations Public Hearing County Hall Hertford: November 05, 2013 - November 06, 2013

Author Topic: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?  (Read 575918 times)

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Offline Editor

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Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« on: February 09, 2008, 05:14:10 pm »
Note: First post updated 09/08/2013 to include some important diary dates from Cathy.

Hearing in Public for Hertfordshire Waste Sites Allocations document dates announced to be September 3, 4 and 5th, and Nov 5th and 6th
(Nov 5th will be specifically about the New Barnfield site)


1. THE PUBLIC INQUIRY
Veolia’s Planning Application, for a 380,000 tonnes per year waste incinerator at New Barnfield, is to be considered at  a Public Inquiry, running Sept 10-13, Sept 17-20, Sept 24-27, then a week’s break, and running Oct 8-11, Oct 15-18 and Oct 22-25th probably. This will be held for the first week at the Fielder Centre on the Hatfield Business Park, and later at the Ramada Comet Hotel Hatfield, and unknown venues.

Please will all those opposed to an incinerator at New Barnfield try to come to a protest outside the Fielder Centre from 9.30 a.m. on Sept 10th and then go inside to listen to the Inquiry, on whichever days you can. There will be room for 100 of the public in the Inquiry hall, and an overflow room.

The Inquiry will begin at 10 a.m. Tuesday to Friday. There will also be an evening when members of the public can express their views.

2. THE HERTFORDSHIRE WASTE SITES ALLOCATIONS DOCUMENT – HEARING IN PUBLIC

The Waste Sites Allocations Document is the second part of the policy for waste for the whole of Hertfordshire. The first part of the policy for waste is called the Waste Core Strategy, and this part has already been agreed and approved by an inspector.
The Waste Sites Allocations Document lists many potential waste sites in Hertfordshire, including New Barnfield, which it lists as suitable for various waste uses, including thermal treatment (i.e. incineration).This second part of the waste policy for Hertfordshire has not yet been agreed and approved by an inspector.

It has now been announced the Waste Sites Allocations Document will go to a Hearing in Public, in front of an independent inspector, on Sept 3 – 5th, and on Nov 5th and 6th. The session on Nov 5th will be specifically about the New Barnfield site.
This Hearing in Public will be at County Hall, Hertford. We do not yet know how much room there will be for the public to listen to this Hearing – but the Hearing is open to the public, and we hope some of you will come to listen, especially on Nov 5th.


The latest North Mymms District Green Belt Society newsletter, which is being delivered to all local homes, has information about the public consultation into proposals to set up a waste handling site in Hatfield. Click here for more details.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 09:13:46 am by David Brewer »
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Offline kgbgirl

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2008, 09:53:57 am »
Does anyone know a local person who can clear household rubbish ? I have probably a transit van full and would really like to get this cleared by someone who can be trusted not to flytip once paid. If anyone has used services of similar reliable person could you please let me know their details by e-mailing to rachel (at) gbpackaging (dot) com. Thank you. (Moffats Lane)

Editor's note: edited to hide email address to prevent spamming.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 02:04:22 pm by David Brewer »
Hazel x
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 02:46:12 pm »
Have you considered a skip ?

You can get them delivered and picked up next day - might well work out a similar cost to a 'man with van' and you would know the rubbish will be properly disposed of.
 

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2009, 07:19:11 am »
Plans to build a waste incinerator just north of Welham Green have moved a step closer. Apparently, it would be capable of processing enough annual waste to fill Wembley Stadium. Herts County Council says New Barnfield has been identified as a ‘reference site’, although the authority says a final decision on the location has not yet been taken.  Click here for more details.

I am all for reducing landfill and, as HCC says "recover energy from the waste that cannot be recycled", but won't there be nasty emissions for those living down wind of the plant?
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Offline epiphany

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2009, 10:20:23 am »
I thought this area of green belt between A1001 South Way and Dellsome Lane/Pooleys Lane was a proposed building site for new homes? - I wonder if the incinerator will feature on estate agent details??
 

Offline Peter Hastings

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009, 10:32:10 am »
It may be hard to imagine but I am told by those who know more about this than I do that the technology is such that emissions are as clean if not cleaner than the normal air.

I think once you get over the initial shock of the idea of having a big bonfire in our local area, this may turn out to be not a bad idea overall. It may also be better for us than having a residential estate there with inadequate resources and generating more local waste!
 

Offline Mike Hobday

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 07:42:17 am »
For my part, I'm strongly opposed to the proposed incinerator.

It's not just that it's in the wrong place, right between two residential areas, it's the wrong technology. When I represented Welwyn Garden City on the County Council from 1997 to 2005, I worked across the party divide to help develop a waste plan that promoted recycling above incineration, and I'm sorry this approach has changed.

Certainly, technology has improved over the years, and new incinerators will cause less pollution than older ones. But incinertaors require 30 year contractss - inevitably acting as a strong disincentive to recycling, and more importantly, to waste minimisation which should be our first priority.

If large amounts of money are contractually required to burn our waste, there's inevitably less money available to put into another improving technology - recycling. As our ability to recycle grows and grows, we're likely to reach the point, well before 30 years, that the residual waste stream is too small to feed the incinerator contract.
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Offline Paul Zukowskyj

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 12:03:43 pm »
The proposed waste site at New Barnfield is DEFINITELY not the right place. That is confirmed by the County Council's own consultant report on suitable sites, where New Barnfield scored significantly lower than other sites in Welwyn Hatfield.

It's pretty clear to see that the Conservative County Council is pushing New Barnfield because it owns it. I suspect what is going on is that the PFI credits will be combined with private investment to fund the project, including buying the land from the county council. The county therefore gets significant funds from land sales which it can spend on a variety of pet projects that would not be appropriate for PFI.

It's also not the right technology, there are more appropriate options. The problem with the plan for an incinerator is the contract would require a specific volume of waste every year for at least 25-30 years. So where's the incentive to recycle more? If the volume of waste drops below the threshold, the council is still compelled to pay. Other systems are much more modular and can be much more easily scaled up and down with changes to waste volumes.

We'll be campaigning to get the Tories to think again. Watch this space for more news on the developing protest plans.

Regards,

Paul Zukowskyj, Liberal Democrat Prospective MP for Welwyn Hatfield

 

Offline Jill Weston

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 03:42:21 pm »
As the Green Party Parliamentary candidate for Welwyn Hatfield, I'm obviously against any incineration anywhere in the UK, let alone in Hertfordshire. As for the likely choice of New Barnfield as a site, anyone can see this would be totally unacceptable, being so close to a school and houses.
The County Council has only secured half the funding - so would the other half come out of a PFI (Private Finance Initiative)? This is likely - ie the council mortgages us up to the hilt in the most expensive and uneconomical way possible - PFI's are notorious for this.
The point has already been made about incinerators feeding on stuff which is recyclable. This material has to include paper and plastics, otherwise the incinerator would not burn. But we already recycle both these materials, at least in Welwyn Hatfield. From talking to local people, I'm aware many would like kerbside collection of plastics now that we've taken the first step and got plastic bottle bring banks. This would be very unlikely to happen if an incinerator needed feeding.
Incineration converts thousands of potentially recyclable materials into toxic dust and ash. It is said modern ones can keep the emission of toxins to a low level if they are well-run - but they very often are not well-run. And why should we have or want ANY toxins being released into the air we breathe?
Greenpeace reserach shows that most incinerators only convert 20% of the heat they generate into electricity, which is very inefficient.
We should have a Zero Waste Strategy, (ie nothing to go into the ordinary dustbin) by using mimimise, re-use and recycle policies, and Mechanical and Biological Treatment plants to do separation for further recycling and composting, over and above what the local council is able to do via bring bins and kerbside collection.
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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 09:31:18 pm »
Prospective Labour Party candidate, Mike Hobday has just tweeted an update from the incinerator meeting saying that ...

Quote
Tory councillor Derrick Ashley says New Barnfield "probable site" for incinerator

http://twitter.com/MikeHobday/status/2555564950
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Offline Mike Hobday

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 11:17:06 am »
Hatfield Against Incineration is organising a public meeting at the Welham Green Memorial Hall, next Saturday, 27 February at 1.30.
All political parties are invited, and expected to send speakers.

Remember, it's not just New Barnfield under threat - close though that is to Welham Green. Travellers Lane is itself listed as a suitable site for incineration: http://www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/w/wsawelwynhatfield09.pdf

Facebook invite at http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=354459655999&ref=ts for those so minded!

Mike
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 11:22:26 am »
Where did Mike Hobday get this idea from about Travellers Lane, Welham Green?  I can find no trace of such an idea.  For the record, North Mymms District Green belt Society is against any waste handling facility at these two sites.

In a report to the council last December, Welwyn Hatfield Council officers had this to say about Travellers Lane (I have put in bold certain words to highlight them)

Travellers Lane: The Travellers Lane site is designated as an employment area in the District Plan.

The two main concerns with regard to this site are the proximity of sensitive receptors, namely residential properties, and the size and availability of units. In light of the close proximity of these sensitive receptors it is recommended that an objection be raised to those proposed facilities likely to have negative impacts on the amenity of residents. These include materials recovery facilities, waste electrical and electronic equipment, end of life vehicle recovery, thermal treatment (particularly energy from waste facilities) and mechanical biological treatment.


With regard to New Barnfield, the officers report said this:

These sensitive receptors (as above), depending on the type of facility proposed, may be negatively affected by development in terms of nuisance caused by increased HGV activity, visual intrusion, noise and vibration, odour, and air emissions including dust.

In light of close proximity of the school it is recommended that an objection be raised to all facilities on the grounds that the number of HGV movements and the associated disturbance and health implications to the pupils and staff would be unacceptable.

If a new access route was established certain facilities would still be considered unacceptable and should be objected to. These thermal treatment (particularly energy from waste facilities) include materials recovery facilities, waste electrical and electronic equipment, end of life vehicle recovery,and mechanical biological treatment.


Offline Mike Hobday

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2010, 11:36:49 am »
Dear Bob,
See the Herts CC link in my first post for the map, and page 55 of http://www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/w/wastesiteallocnov09.pdf for the description of "Suggested Waste Facilities" which includes, as you quote from Borough council officers "Thermal Treatment."
Apologies for not including the second link in my original post, and thanks for finding the Borough Council report which confirms it.
Mike
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Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 01:50:20 pm »
We went to the HCC Committee meeting on Tuesday which accepted the report on the public consultations which the Council held re the above.

It was very low key, with no decisions being made.  But an interesting point to emerge (as I understood it) was that the only objection the public can make to whatever decision they take is on whether they have carried out their activities, eg the public consultation, with due rigour.  Any other objections would be invalid.

Grant Schapps, Mike Hobday, the Liberal Democrat candidate and the Green Party Candidate are all working to resist New Barnfield being chosen, although they differ on whether incineration should be resisted in principle.

More information at

www.hatfield-anti-incineration.co.uk

If you agree that it would not be a good idea to have an incinerator so close to Welham Green and Brookmans Park, it might be worth writing a few letters/emails now.
 

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 11:28:39 pm »
Thank you for this, chicken legs.

If people want to send letters/emails for or against, is there a particular person to send to? The list on the website is rather long and people are more likely to write if the name and address is readily to hand. Any chance you could post one in the forum here?
 

Offline Mike Hobday

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 09:13:39 pm »
If people want to send letters/emails for or against, is there a particular person to send to? The list on the website is rather long and people are more likely to write if the name and address is readily to hand. Any chance you could post one in the forum here?
The key decision maker is Councillor Derrick Ashley, http://www.hertsdirect.org/yrccouncil/councillors/ccllrs/dashley/. He's the cabinet member responsible for waste. (or the top rubbish tory, as some might say :))
Mike
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Offline chicken legs

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 11:09:41 pm »
Please don't make provocative political comments, Mike, even humorously, as it may alienate some possible supporters.
 

Offline ScottishGoat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2010, 02:07:33 pm »
Hertfordshire County Council have submitted a planning application for a waste incinerator at New Barnfield, Travellers Lane, Welham Green.  It is proposed that the plant will burn up to 400,000 tonnes of household, commercial and industrial waste per year.  The incinerator is being marketed as an "Energy Recovery Facility" the idea being that it will eliminate waste and generate electricity.

In reality it will not eliminate waste, but merely convert the waste into poisonous air emissions and toxic ash.  Waste incinerators are a major source of dioxin compounds, furans, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, lead, nitrogen oxide, hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride, sulfur dioxides and particulate matter. 

For further information on waste incinerators in the UK please visit: http://www.ukwin.org.uk  (includes an interactive map showing existing and potential waste incinerator sites)

For details of the New Barnfield application and to object/comment visit: https://fastweb.welhat.gov.uk/welcome.asp and enter S6/2010/2218/CN in the Planning Application Reference.

The Welwyn Hatfield Times is running an online petition called “Infer No”: http://services.whtimes.co.uk/competition/whtimes/infernopetition.aspx
 

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 04:36:24 pm »
Just merged four posts on this topic so that people can find the history of the debate.
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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2010, 08:57:50 am »
Im coming into this pretty late but it seems that this proposal is the single biggest thing affecting this area of herts for a long while.

Are there any local pressure groups formed to oppose this. What is being done with regards planning objections etc.

I find it worrying that a plant burning thousands of tonnes of rubbish will be operating nearby by with the resulting fumes (containing all sorts of nasty compounds) being blown all over hertfordshire.

any info appreciated-lets address and face this problem with the same vigour as the dog mess discussion-its far more important!!

bp
 

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2010, 09:21:58 am »
Are there any local pressure groups formed to oppose this. What is being done with regards planning objections etc.

Scroll up this thread to see earlier contributions, particularly reply 13 and reply 17.

David
 
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Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2010, 11:10:44 am »
The County Council Waste Management Cabinet Panel is meeting at 2pm today.  On the agenda is this item relating to New Barnfield.  
 http://www.hertsdirect.org/mm/15529271/15744854/item5wasteman161110.doc

The Panel is recommended to vote on this motion.

2.1.   At the meeting of the County Council on 12 October M Cowan moved the following motion in relation to waste procurement:-

   “This council recognises:-

(a) the unsuitability of the proposed waste disposal sites at New Barnfield and Harper Lane
(b) the undesirability of letting commercial operators take decisions on location that should be made by elected councillors
Council therefore asks the Cabinet to use the opportunities given by localism to look for alternative options that avoid the need to site such a large facility in parts of the county unable to cope with the related traffic movements."

Both the Parish Council and the Green Belt Society have always maintained that traffic would be a major problem if the New Barnfield site was chosen.  Someone who lives near Harper Lane told me that local residents are equally opposed to an incinerator being sited there.  

My personal view is that the question of toxic fumes etc depends upon who you believe, just like 'global warming'.  Incinerators are used in other countries but I have not heard of any ill effects from their fumes etc.  Does BrookyP or any other reader have any knowledge of incinerators in Germany for example?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 11:22:42 am by Bob Horrocks »
 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2010, 02:51:57 pm »
It's interesting how many people have eagerly accepted the notion that the whole global warming debate is some kind of conspiracy theory / devious ploy to raise taxes.

Few, it seems, have raised any eyebrows about how the story broke - right before a major global conference on climate change. Or considered who benefits from the endless demand for plastics and fossil-fuel power generation.

As for raising taxes - governments around the world are doing that now because of the state of their finances. No elaborate deception required.

It's also interesting to compare the artist impression of the incinerator or Energy from Waste (EfW) facility that is being proposed for New Barnfield (and with a building waste facility across the footpath with railway access at Welham Green it is a far more likely venue than Harpers Lane, Radlett)...

http://www.brookmans.com/news/april09/new_waste_disposal_site.shtml

... with the EfW facility at Edmonton
http://www.hatfield-herts.co.uk/incinerator.html

Like most people, I suspect, I don't find incinerators and waste disposal a particularly interesting topic. Unfortunately, people living anywhere near New Barnfield ignore this at their peril.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2010, 11:56:41 am »
It's also interesting to compare the artist impression of the incinerator or Energy from Waste (EfW) facility that is being proposed for New Barnfield (and with a building waste facility across the footpath with railway access at Welham Green it is a far more likely venue than Harpers Lane, Radlett)...

http://www.brookmans.com/news/april09/new_waste_disposal_site.shtml

Welcome to the Forum, Trekbat.  Always good to get new viewpoints.

However I am not at all sure about any rail access to New Barnfield.  The nearby line is the East Coast Main Line with no marshalling yards for unloading waste for transporting to New Barnfield.   There were marshalling yards between Marshmoor Lane and the track, north of Dixons Hill Road, but those yards disappeared decades ago.

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2010, 05:33:34 pm »
Thank you, Bob.

And apologies to all - it turns out the waste transfer station application was withdrawn.

https://fastweb.welhat.gov.uk/progress.asp?AltRef=S6/2010/0391/CD&ApplicationNumber=&AddressPrefix=&submit2=Go

Although my understanding, from comments on another forum, is that there are still rails dating back to Marshmoor days on the site, which suggests it should be fairly simple to enable rail access again.

Something that is considered to be a positive in the HCC draft Waste Strategy document.

http://consult.hertscc.gov.uk/portal/minerals_and_waste/wcsdmp/wcsdm

 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2010, 10:53:02 am »
Although my understanding, from comments on another forum, is that there are still rails dating back to Marshmoor days on the site, which suggests it should be fairly simple to enable rail access again.

Nice bit of info.

I visited the site when the application was made and it was totally unsuitable for that use. 

Offline trekbat

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2010, 07:03:20 am »
I hope you're right - I'm certainly not an expert in such matters to say if it was or wasn't.

However, rail access is not the only consideration in the decision as where the incinerator / EfW plant referred to in Appendix A of the Herts County Council's draft Waste Strategy goes. Currently, New Barnfield or Harper Lane are the only two sites left on the table.

Although it seems rather illogical, proceeding with tactical moves before the strategy is finalised. But then again, so is the apparent (one moment it's on, the next it's off, then it's back on again...) decision to move the Central Resources Library from New Barnfield to a purpose-built facility in WGC in these cash-strapped times. Especially as there is a vacant school on nearby Briars Lane, which would allow HCC to save money by merging it with the small library in Hatfield town centre.

IF it goes ahead (planning documents say it's awaiting consultation) it would also mean WGC has three public libraries (two of which would be large two storey affairs) and Hatfield - home of the University of Hertfordshire, Business Link and bordering Smallford College - having one (with possibly shorter opening hours).


"Opening hours at branch libraries will also face “significant reductions”, which could affect libraries in Brookmans Park, Cuffley, Goffs Oak, Hatfield, Knebworth, Oakmere (Potters Bar), WGC, Welwyn, and Woodhall."
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/welwyn_hatfield_mobile_library_service_to_be_scrapped_and_library_opening_hours_cut_1_707633

Services moved out of Hatfield site “in anticipation” of incinerator
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/services_moved_out_of_hatfield_site_in_anticipation_of_incinerator_1_57067

The Park Education Support Centre mentioned in the item above may now go to Potters Bar but something is definitely coming to New Barnfield
http://www.hertsdirect.org/havesay/consultation/crtcnslt/consultations/parkrelocation/

CRL's planned new home at Broadwater Road
https://www.hertsdirect.org/ePlanningOPS/loadFullDetails.do?aplId=20611
https://www.hertsdirect.org/ePlanningOPS/tabPage3.jsp?aplId=20611
 

Offline epiphany

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Offline Greybeard

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2011, 09:24:27 am »
Quote
THE date for a decision on where an unwelcome incinerator could be built has been revealed.

The two shortlisted bidders – Veolia ES Aurora, which wants to build at Hatfield’s New Barnfield, and E.ON Energy from Waste AG (EEW), which favours Harper Lane, Radlett – will learn of their fate on April 28.

Once the successful bidder is named by Hertfordshire County Council, the company will start the planning process, including public consultation, for the chosen site.

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/decision_date_revealed_on_hatfield_incinerator_1_808657

If I remember rightly, this is to be financed through PFI. I'm astonished the coalition hasn't put a stop to all PFI schemes.
 

Offline Ferdie

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Re: Hatfield incinerator - what's going on?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 11:04:11 pm »
 

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