Author Topic: Someone living at Raybrook Farm  (Read 16736 times)

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kgs

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Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« on: July 31, 2006, 12:58:01 pm »
there is definatly someone living inside the main barn at raybrook farm, bluebridge road! there is always lights on and people visiting at night. i think someone should check it out its a bit weired, and if there is someone living there then wont they try for planning, would this not be the reason for living in a cold barn? ??? i have heared that a man has been there for over a year now? i do not know the laws but surely this is illegal? anyone have more information?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2006, 05:10:00 pm »
The North Mymms District Green Belt Soc raised this with Welwyn Hatfield Council in February and I met the owner at the URC police meeting in February.  He assured me that nobody was living there and the lights and evening visits are security measures.

None the less, the Society has written again this week to the council to get this checked out once more.

As you rightly say, it is unlawful to live there.

ottoD

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2006, 06:15:50 pm »
I posted about this a few months ago.

I can confirm that the barn is lived in by a guy name Jeff. If you knock on the door late at night you will find out that it is occupied...actually it's a strange security measure to leave the barn unlocked at night. ;D

I doubt if Mr Raynor, the owner would have been in attendence as he has only visited the farm once or twice in 20 years. The farm is let out to T M who lives at Tring. He has sub-let part of the farm to a guy named K S. Several of the stables and fields are still rented from Mr M by horse owners.

Actually I'm still waiting for the farm shop to open........and the mini cab office :o

The other question is whether the appropriate licenses are in force for the keeping and breeding of pigs, and poultry?

Bob - if you want further information I can oblige, but I shall not post addresses or telephone numbers on the forum. I suspect that you were duped at the meeting.

Anyway if he is still in residence in 2 years time I'll be putting in for planning permission for change of use to residential and build a large gothic mansion.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 06:32:19 pm by ottoD »
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 10:48:17 am »
Many thanks to ottoD and Racehorsematch for the info.

A bit unfair to suggest I was duped since I was simply telling you what the person said to me at the police meeting.  Maybe the council Enforcement Officer was, which is why I will be passing on this additional info to Welwyn Hatfield Council.

As for a large gothic mansion, you might have better luck with Ruth Kelly MP (John Prescott 2)  if you applied for a huge estate of 'affordable housing'.  I must confess to not really understanding what is meant by that term - affordable by whom?

ottoD

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 01:10:19 pm »
"I met the owner at the URC police meeting in February.  He assured me that nobody was living there and the lights and evening visits are security measures."

You posted this on a public forum and most people would take that as being 100% correct as your opinion on such matters is respected by the vast majority of people. I wouldn't say duped is too harsh.
 

ottoD

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 01:34:36 pm »
bronsbug

I have provided Bob with all the information he needs to ascertain the facts pertaining to the current situation.

Perhaps you should report any unusual activity to the police? There is no reason for anyone to be at the property after dark as the horses are currently living out in the fields.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 05:02:41 pm »
I am truly sorry if I misled anyone.

Assuming someone is living there, it would not seem to be a criminal activity, more a planning matter which is why Welwyn Hatfield Council is being asked to check it out.

ottoD

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 09:06:43 pm »
Living there is not actually a criminal offence but if your first post had been correct a good citizen might assume that a burglary might be in progress as activity in such a barn late at night would be most unusual.

 

kgs

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2006, 08:20:23 am »
i can confirm that there are NO licences for the keeping, breeding or selling of pigs, poultry or rabbits at raybrook, thus making it illegal to keep such animals on the site!
 

Offline peppermint

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2006, 10:48:00 pm »
so what are Welwyn Hatfield Council doing about it?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 11:27:19 am »
Welwyn Hatfield Council have been notified.  Their enforcement section is only one or two people and it is holiday time.  He or they cover all of Welwyn Hatfield. 

OK, I am making excuses for them, but that is the situation, whether we like it or not. 

On Sunday I did see the person assumed to be living there, walking along the road so he is still there.

Offline GGDT

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2006, 06:46:37 pm »
Despite having lived in the local area for over 36 years I still have no idea what your all talking about!!

Where the hell is Raybrook Farm ???
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 12:37:21 pm »
Raybrook Farm location

From Bradmore Green travel south along Bluebridge Road, down to the bottom of the hill and cross the bridge over the stream.  The road rises and you pass the entrance to Brook House on your left.  You then come to a barn and stables immediately before the high wooden gates to Raybrook Farmhouse (another property altogther)  The stables and barn are what is being discussed.  It is in the Green Belt.

It is meant simply to be stables and related storage barn, but someone appears to be living in the barn. 

The Welwyn Hatfield District Plan, which sets planning policies, says that it is not necessary for anyone to live at stables whether for security or any other reason.  However there is a time limit under general planning laws. 

On Station Road the stables with the large metal gates bearing a 'no liveries' sign have proven use for liveries, and a building on the site has been lived in, for more than the minimum time.  So, despite being Green Belt land, the council recently had no option other than to grant permission for these established uses.  Most annoying!

That is why it is important to notify the council as soon as possible of apparent unauthorised uses so that, hopefully, action can be taken before being time-barred.  So please keep letting the Green Belt Soc (through me) know of any unusual activity.  We cannot succeed on all occasions, but we do most times.  My thanks to everyone who has done so, and for the continued support for this Society.

Offline GGDT

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 05:40:09 pm »
Right I know where you are now.

Used to know a girl who kept her horse there years ago, from what I remember of it there was just a collection of dillapadated old sheds, certainally nothing that looked habitable.

Another girl I knew kept her horse at the stables you mention next to the scout hut, they were much nicer.

Considering the stables at Raybrook were in disrepair in the mid 80's (when I last went there) I cant believe someone would want to live there through the winter over 20 years later.

Then again if they do what's the problem, the building is already there and so long as he's not knocking up a brand new house in the middle of the green belt I dont really see why its such a big issue, there arent even any neighbours to annoy???
 

Offline ADM

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2006, 09:16:21 am »
So you let any building in the green belt become residential. 

Then of course they want extensions, block paving etc. 

Then you let them build another in their garden (it is residential property after all). 

Then you let a few others build in the gaps between these residential properties. 

Then, oh wait a minute - there's no more green belt.
 

Offline Cassie

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2006, 09:59:18 am »
.... also, are they paying Council Tax? ???
 

Offline mungroo

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2006, 11:05:23 am »
I was just about to ask the same thing !
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2006, 11:41:57 am »
The problem is that it changes the use to residential, and an application can then be made to demolish the barn and erect a house.

A change to residential use will increase the value wonderfully from about 2,500 an acre for agricultural use to goodness knows what. 

Just up the road at the so-called 'Friday Grove Farm', the owner claimed a historic link with a house on the site which disappeared off maps about 160 years ago.  No foundations have been discovered, otherwise he would have said so.  Never the less this was listed as one of the 'very special circumstances' to justify putting a house on this Green Belt land.  To date, permission has been refused but he says he is going to appeal against that refusal, as stated in his letter to the Welwyn Hatfield Times two weeks ago.

Offline Mermaid

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 12:11:44 pm »
Yes, I saw that letter. I thought it was a damned cheek trying to give the impression that if he wasn't allowed to put one 'eco house' on the property, then the only alternative might well be a housing estate and that therefore he was 'saving' the land from development. I was tempted to write back and remind WHT readers that the land was advertised and sold by Statons as 'agricultural land in the Green Belt' and that therefore the real alternative - cleverly not mentioned in the letter - is that no development takes place at all!

As regards Raybrook barn's 'resident', a question for you Bob - who would be the one to legally apply for the change of use? Would it be the person living there (who may not be the owner) or would it have to be the actual owner?

 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2006, 05:11:03 pm »
Sorry not to have replied before now but here is the answer to the best of my knowledge.

Anyone can apply for planning permission for anyone's land.  I could apply to pull down your house and replace it with a block of flats for example.  Not that I would of course.

As regards change of use, the applicant would have to demonstrate why the council should allow it.  Particularly changing Green Belt agricultural land to residential use.  That would be very hard to justify, as Mr 'name and address supplied' has discovered.

arm

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2006, 05:03:22 pm »
I did't know my farm was so popular! I've had the farm for over 40 years now and consider myself to be a good tenant.I keep my business to myself & have never had any problems. Then all of a sudden people are e-mailing your site complaining about nothing! Yes we have someone who goes up there to keep an eye on the place as someone was letting the animals out and stealing from me. No one would want to live in the cold old barn believe me! We need some security.
I have the right to run the farm as l wish.I'm not hurting anyone or doing anything that affects peoples lives, l'm just a farmer running a business as l have for the last 40 odd years. So please let me get on with my life in peace. I'ts green belt land and l am not applying for building permission.My daughter is now going to help me run it. So l hope this can be an end to the e-mails. 
 

arm

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2006, 04:25:26 pm »
I just wanted to say thank you for the e-mail that Bada Bing sent me. It was nice to read a e-mail of support for my farm. :)
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2006, 02:19:20 pm »
I am sure nobody is against the use of the land as a farm.  It is just that local residents are very protective of the Green Belt and don't wish to see a residential use being established by default. 

This has recently happened on Station Road where a livery and dwelling have had to be approved by the council when the owner proved those uses for more than the statutory minimum period.  This was despite the notice on the gates saying 'No liveries'.  That land is also in the Green Belt. 

kgs

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2006, 12:53:59 pm »
It is not you (arm) that is the problem or the way you run your side of things on the farm but the problem is the person who is sub letting most of the farm from your brother. it is obviouse to all and soon to be to the council that there is in fact someone living in the barn, and has been for a long time. i know you may not wish to apply for planning but what about this other person! how can you be so sure as i know you dont get on or speak?  ???
im worried that this person will try for planning even though its not his land and if someone has been living on that land then its pretty much given to them on a plate and there is nothing anyone can do about it. hence why we all would like this problem sorted as i would hate for raybrook farm to become any type of residents either big farm house or an estate.
please dont feel that people are getting at you as this has in fact got nothing to do with what you do there and how you run your side of things.
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2006, 12:58:06 pm »
Just to keep you up to date, the Enforcement Officer at Welwyn Hatfield Council has written to say he is dealing with this and will keep the NM Green Belt Soc informed of developments in this matter. He says the land is restricted to agricultural use only.

The legal wheels may turn slower than some of our correspondents may wish, but they are turning.

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 03:42:28 pm »
The parish council has now heard from Welwyn Hatfield's Enforcement Officer. 

He has found no evidence of anyone living there.  He said the only time anyone stayed overnight was earlier this year when there was concerns about break-ins.   There was no evidence of large domestic appliances such as washing machines etc.

Offline motherchuck

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2017, 08:47:54 am »
He is still living there.
 

Offline memsal9

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2017, 03:35:23 pm »
With all the problems in the world and with all the problems this country faces and will continue to face for the foreseeable future a lot of people round here seem to have a problem with some chap (allegedly) living in an isolated barn keeping himself to himself and causing no trouble to an anyone. It's pathetic.
 
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2017, 04:11:49 pm »
It's pathetic.

Agreed

Would we prefer to see someone sleeping in the doorway of the Co-op or on the village green under cardboard? ........ I'm guessing not. 
 

Offline memsal9

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Re: Someone living at Raybrook Farm
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2017, 04:43:29 pm »
The main concern appears to be the possibility of a certificate of lawfulness being presented after living there for four years but even if that were to be the case I can't see how one isolated dwelling is going to make one bit of difference to the Greenbelt. We are soon to embark of what is wildly know and accepted as the great white elephant the HS2 which will result in thousands of acres of green fields and woodland permanently destroyed and here we have some people making a fuss about nothing.
 

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