Author Topic: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal  (Read 44329 times)

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Offline flw67

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2005, 03:18:00 pm »
Quite a few of the houses in Peplins Way only have space for one car, so if you had yelllow lines in Peplins Way where are the residents with 2 or more cars supposed to park.
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2005, 09:23:03 pm »
Er.. loose the second car and buy a bike or use public transport instead?  ;D

Yes I know, predictable answer. And no, I don't have a family to drive around the place so don't know how hard it would be.

But Peplins Way is just 5-10 mins walk from a regular 20 min train service going North and South during the day, and there's a regular bus service stopping nearby as well. Sure, you might occasionally need to get a taxi somewhere, but you could pay for that out of the savings you make on road tax, MOT, petrol, depreciation on your vehicle and insurance :)

Back on this topic slightly, but I agree with ADM - is there evidence of crashes or near misses around the green area? Is there a problem that needs solving? I know it can get vey congested around school run time (although perhaps the solution again there is to walk!), but unlike, say, the chicane at Welham Green which did need some attention, is there a problem here that needs to be solved? The online parish council minutes state:

'Councillor Storey said there was a formal proposal for a one-way system in Bradmore Green.   It was agreed that he would contact Highways Department to ensure that the traffic in Bradmore Way would be able to turn into the Service Road by the Library.'

But don't say what the reasoning behind this 'formal proposal' are or where it came from....

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
I post in a personal capacity and not on behalf of North Mymms Parish Council
 

Max

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2005, 07:32:40 am »
Quite a few of the houses in Peplins Way only have space for one car, so if you had yelllow lines in Peplins Way where are the residents with 2 or more cars supposed to park.

Really? I suppose I haven't been round to Peplins Way much since school days, but I remember just about every house there having both a drive and a garage. So, one car in the garage plus one outside on the drive it seems to me that you have space for two cars, which is surely as many as a normal household needs. My mother lives in a bungalow in Westland Drive, one of the smaller houses in BP, and there most certainly is room to park three cars there. Possibly four if they were all small.
 

Offline flw67

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2005, 10:19:35 am »
Quote
I can't think of a house in BP that doesn't have a drive big enough for two cars

Apologies perhaps I didn't make myself clear, I was referring to the above quote.

BTW my mother's house can get five big cars on the drive (but I'm not sure how relevant that is to the one way proposal)
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2005, 11:17:44 am »
Max - you can't really count garages as parking spaces these days. Either (like me) you use your garage as a workshop and for storage, or the garage is simply too small for the 4WD or MPV.

A lot of people have also converted their garage into an extra room.
 

Offline barmy

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2005, 11:37:59 pm »
Indeed, and if like me you may need to store a trailer - we have just ordered a boat that we intend to store on the drive in Peplyn's, then that further restricts your options if you put yellow lines in the road outside.

A restricted now waiting zone could be deployed - no parking between 09:30 and 12:00 and 14:30 to 16:30 for example would deter "all dayers" taking adavantage of the proximity to the station and enable residents to park on the road overnight and should they pop home for lunch.

 

Max

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2005, 05:21:26 am »
Sorry, Barmy, but no-one "needs" to store a trailer. trailers and boats are things we purchase  because we think it will be fun. What we decide to purchase is greatly influenced by whether or not we have the space to store it, but that does not mean that we should assume an automatic entitlement to keep our possessions (cars, in this context) on land that we do not own (the road). I believe that in Japan, you are actually not allowed to own a car unless you either own or rent somewhere to keep it off the road, which seems fair enough to me. A great many roads have residents only parking restrictions, which I believe the residents pay for, which is something that could be considered for places such as Peplins Way too, if the demand is there.

In any event, the suggestion of yellow lines in such a place was based on comments earlier in the thread concerning the probability of commuters parking in such places to avoid car-park charges, and if the options were that I could not park outside my home because of a yellow line, or because the street was clogged up with bumper to bumper parked cars, I personally would opt for the former.
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2005, 09:38:24 am »
Quote
entitlement to keep our possessions (cars, in this context) on land that we do not own (the road)

However I do pay road tax which I think does entitle me to park on the road if I wish (as long as it's legal of course)
 

Max

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2005, 10:48:34 am »
Well, that's me shot down in flames, innit? Tell the truth, I'd forgotten all about road tax, not having paid it for many moons. I'll smite myself as a penance for being dozy!

Still, if you live in a house with a large drive and you choose to keep a boat in it, it seems to me that if you then find you do not have adaquate parking space, it is because you have decided that ownership of a boat and keeping that boat at home are, for you, higher priorities than having space to park a second or third car, and can hardly expect this to be taken into consideration when the issue of whether or not to put yellow lines on the road is being discussed.

The same applies for garages in my opinion. Whatever someone chooses to use a garage for, its intended use is as a place to keep your car, so if someone tells me that he has nowhere to keep his car because he keeps his model railway in the garage or because he owns an unreasonably large vehicle (both matters of personal choice) this argument does not convince me.

Actually, Barmy, if I might add a piece of friendly advice, are you sure you have been through the costs of boat ownership thoroughly? Depends a lot on the boat, of course, but I know many people who sail and work in sailing related businesses (yacht chandlery, boat building, and skippering) and they are all of the opinion that owning a boat is frequently far more expensive than simply hiring one when you need or wish to. Unless you use the boat a great deal more often than many boat owners apparently do, the annual maintenance and transport and/or storage costs can considerably outweigh the cost of hiring a boat when you wish to. You might want to check this does not apply to you, although if you have already ordered the boat it is perhaps a bit late.

 

Offline barmy

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2005, 09:56:01 pm »
Max,   Thanks for the advice on boat ownership.  Actually it is only an 18ft semi rigid inflatable (A bit like an in-shore lifeboat) that I will use on reservoirs around the area (where such activity is permitted) and maybe occasionally on a trundle to the coast - I am trying to master the art of waterskiing currently.  I do not anticipate especially high costs associated with its ownership as a result. Alas I cannot afford luxury yachts or expensive cruisers.

My point was more that in the case of this thread people have to balance the choice of how they use the space within their property with addressing the issue of introducing parking controls (in the sense of areas being dominated by commuting non-residents) in the area.  People, for different reasons, will make different uses of their available space and may still have a requirement for two or possibly three vehicles (maybe more) - this depends on the size of the family / mobility needs etc....and finding a balance and compromise is the key.

Making parking restrictions enforceable between specific times, as suggested, Monday to Friday (which I didn't specify before) I believe delivers that balance, since during the times when one cannot park on the road most residents won't need to and they are still free to use their spaces within their properties as they wish.

I actually agree with you Max, in the sense I would rather have some kind of parking restriction than the extreme of bumper to bumper cars in the road, but as a resident (paying road tax indeed) I would like the option of parking in the road "off peak", whatever the circumstance of needing to do so.

Balance...

 

Max

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2005, 04:31:30 am »
Making parking restrictions enforceable between specific times, as suggested, Monday to Friday (which I didn't specify before) I believe delivers that balance, since during the times when one cannot park on the road most residents won't need to and they are still free to use their spaces within their properties as they wish.

I quite agree, Barmy, this strikes me as the most sensible proposal too.
 

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2006, 01:32:04 pm »
The Bradmore Green one-way system looks like it could soon be introduced. Click here for more.
The Brookmans Park Newsletter has been supporting the village and our local community since 1998 by providing free, interactive tools for all to use.
 

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2006, 09:45:31 pm »
Well I have to admit I went down to the village (on my bike) this afternoon at school closing time and it was mayhem, although all traffic seemed to be going in the same direction. The only downside to this is the absolute plethora of signs which will have to be installed, all of them lit up, which will ruin the looks of the green. Perhaps some discreet signage could be dreamed up?
Confucius he say "a dog is for life not just for Christmas Dinner"
 

Offline Margaret

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2006, 10:34:31 am »
I'm afraid I am still against any change to the direction of the traffic flow in BP. Nothing has changed since my last post and I can see absolutely no benefit of a one-way system other than to make some people drive even faster. The village triangles are great sleeping policemen!!!!The problems arise from the one or two bad drivers who just stop their car where they like or drive how they like and changing the roads is not going to change that. They will contiune to be inconsiderate drivers whatever you do and putting yellow lines in or charging people just makes life difficult for the rest of us especially the elderly who rely on their local shops. As to the person who says they would not object paying 20p to park their car in the village, I most certainly would. I pay more than enough road tax, income tax and council tax and have no intention of paying more to do one of life's necessary actions i.e. shopping. And I suspect there are a lot of pensioners out there who would also object, at least I hope so. it is bad enough that Potters Bar are now going to charge to park to go shopping. I just hope it won't mean the decline of Potters Bar and force everybody to Tescos.
 

ottoD

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2006, 10:57:00 am »
Putting in a new one way system in such a confined area is sure to lead to a few accidents in the initial weeks as no doubt a number of people won't 'see' the new signs and the people going in the correct direction won't expect to see another vehicle travelling towards them.
 

Offline ADM

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2006, 10:10:13 am »
I got this eMail yesterday....

Dear Mr Manwaring,

I am writing with reference to your e-mail dated 19th January 2006 regarding this matter that has been passed to me for a reply.

I have noted the grounds of your objection which is the only objection we received to this proposed scheme. To summarise these grounds, I would say that they fall into three main categories:

1. Concern that vehicle speeds would increase and put pedestrians' lives (particularly school children) at risk.

2. Concern about the visual clutter (my words) due to the extra signs.

3. Suggestion that motorists should use the free car park near the station or use alternative modes of transport.

Hertfordshire Highways considers that it is safer to make these two service roads one-way than to persist with the current arrangement (together with all the congestion, reversing and general confusion that this seems to cause.)   Whilst the potential for increased vehicle speeds has been considered
in this case, the conclusion is that the service roads are really too short for any significant speeding to occur and that the benefits of the proposal outweigh any potential disbenefits.

This proposal has been developed at the request of North Mymms Parish Council and has the full support of the County Councillor for the area, and the backing of the Highways Joint Member Panel for Welwyn Hatfield. This is the panel of your elected representatives (District and County Councillors) that has decided to fund the proposal, and they may advise officers on any final decision to proceed with the scheme taking your objection into account.

I can confirm that some give way lines have been added to each service road at the request of the police, and that the scheme has been passed by safety audit.

Having regard to the extra signs required by the scheme, those provided will be both the minimum number and the smallest size necessary and we are not of the opinion that these signs will cause any significant harm to the visual appearance of the area.

Whilst I agree with the sentiments you expressed about using the car park and alternative modes of transport, the reality seems to be that the congestion and reversing problems are set to persist unless action is taken to provide a contolled solution such as this scheme.

Bearing in mind the above facts, I am obliged to ask whether you might reconsider the grounds for your objection, and I am hoping that you might wish to withdraw your objection to this proposal. In the event that you decide to withdraw your objection, I should be very grateful if you would write to me either by letter or by e-mail to confirm so.

In the event that you still do not wish to withdraw your objection, please confirm that this is the case, and I shall then need to report the grounds for your objection to the elected representatives as is appropriate in such cases for them to advise me.

I thank you for your interest in this matter, and I look forward to receiving your reply. If you wish to discuss this matter, please do not hesitate to ring me on my direct line number given below.

Yours sincerely,


Mark Goodyear
Assistant District Manager
Welwyn Hatfield Team

At least they bothered to respond but am I really the only person who bothered to object?  Come on chaps!  Don't let the control freaks take over!
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2006, 11:52:36 am »
Never thought of myself, or the other parish councillors, as control freaks.  It just seems to be a good idea which should cut down on the number of confrontations in life.

There will be just 8 signs in all, one on each side of of the four ends.

Parents etc apparently have an unofficial one-way system for Bradmore Way and Peplins Way during school run times.  Having once gone the wrong way once, never again!  Anti-clockwise in future should I ever mis-time my journey in that erea again.

Offline ADM

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2006, 12:07:22 pm »
If the 'congestion and reversing problems' are all that we are trying to solve, it does seem a bit of a sledgehammer/egg job.  Congestion and reversing problems of this scale are by their nature self-regulatory.  If it gets too congested, people will stop driving there.  I accept that it can occasionally be frustrating for Peplins residents trying to get out, but how often have they been delayed by more than a minute while Grandad gingerly backs into a space?  Not very often, I suspect.

I can think of lots of better ways of spending the money.  How much does this all cost anyway, Bob?

CCTV anyone?  What about some facilities for the kids hanging around the town centre?
 

inda_loft

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2006, 12:20:38 pm »
Bradmore green makes me sick! But its fun too coz my car is old and nackered i just drive through and if i scratch one of the many stupidly large BMW's or Merc's then i just laugh coz you obviously didn't get out the way quick enough!! And by the way im a signwriter and the signs are about 200-300 quid each (don't forget they've got to be frabicated)
 

Offline Angel

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2006, 01:22:31 pm »
Is this one-way system official now?

I've just seen markings on the road but they don't look like they have to be complied with  ???
or are they just there for when someone does come along to put signs etc up?
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2006, 12:00:19 pm »
Unless there are signs saying it is one-way, it is still two-way

there will be signs at each end of the two slip roads to indicate the one-way status.

Offline Oly

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2006, 03:27:11 pm »
But its fun too coz my car is old and nackered i just drive through and if i scratch one of the many stupidly large BMW's or Merc's then i just laugh coz you obviously didn't get out the way quick enough!! 

I 100% totally aggree, my car is nackered to but im getting a newer one soon so I wont bother driving it down 2 bp where big cars live, i think il stay in pb and north london (ace cafe).

Anyone interested in a 1.25 fiesta, got crash damage but still works?
 

Offline Rocket

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2006, 01:28:14 pm »
The new No Entry & One Way signs are up already! I asked the Hatfield Council for these signs 10 years ago. They said then, that there would be to many signs and would look unsightly!

Rocket.
 

Offline ADM

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2006, 09:05:43 am »
And they were right.
 

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2006, 12:56:52 pm »
I'm not sure who pays for these sort of things but it's another example of a problem being solved that doesnt really exist.

When we're discussing the 16,000 annual cost of a PCSO money is being spent on relatively unimportant things like yet more street signs. OK, I know the cost of this is probably not much in the grand scheme of things but it does seem to indicate strange (to me) priorities.

Perhaps Bob might know what the cost of this project was and who paid for it.

 

Offline Rocket

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2006, 01:09:13 pm »
I met and asked a PCSO how much does he earn and he replied, that he earns 23,000.

Cheaper in the long run to have CCTV on the Green.

Rocket
 

Offline Lectricary

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2006, 03:30:43 pm »
Having just been to Bradmore Green I noticed two cars parked faceing the wrong way down the new one way system. Is this local bylaw like all the others volantary?
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Offline Rocket

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2006, 03:43:00 pm »
It's never a 'local by law' as all traffic signs must be obeyed through out the UK. Some drivers drive around on 'auto pilot'. The locals will soon get the message when a vehicle is coming from the correct way :icon_jokercolor:

Rocket
 

Offline Bob Horrocks

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2006, 04:12:53 pm »
Sorry but I have no idea of the cost.  But it cannot be 16,000 and it is Herts Highways money, not police money.


Offline Rocket

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Re: Bradmore Green one-way Proposal
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2006, 04:25:32 pm »
Already a 'one-way' sign has been bent over at 45 degrees outside Hollywood. But all is in hand, as I've all ready informed the Herts Highway Office.

Rocket
 

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