Author Topic: School Coaches  (Read 26319 times)

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Offline Alfred the Great

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School Coaches
« on: January 31, 2002, 11:04:30 pm »
I don't see what all the fuss is about, the coaches are only there for a few minutes morning and evening and the village can hardly be described as rural arcadia. The noise and fumes from the M25, A1, A1000 cannot be escaped. If people want to live in a rural idyll they might consider moving further out.







Editor's note: Edited only to tighten headline.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 10:09:57 am by admin »
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Offline Margaret

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2002, 11:06:47 am »
With regard to the school coaches in Moffats, Alfred the Great is right in that the coaches are only there for a few minutes, unfortunately the main problem, as I see it, is not the coaches but the parents, many of whom arrive ten or more minutes before and reverse down peoples drives (bearing in mind that Mymms Drive and Calder Avenue are both private roads and the upkeep of their drives are paid for by the residents and not the council) before parking in an inconsiderate manner across peoples drives etc.. My daughter has had to leave for work fifteen minutes earlier than necessary to get to work because of the blockage caused by parents stopping in the middle  of the road to drop their children of. Now you may say this only takes a minute but have you ever sat behind three huge cars while one or more children get out, then get their bags out and then come back to say goodbye or to take instructions from the person inside the car! Now if it was only one coach maybe it wouldn't be so bad but unfortunately it is more than that and that is twice a day! Also I consider Brookmans Park to be a rural village which is one of the reasons I moved here. The other main consideration was I wanted my children to go to Chancellors and I thought it unecessary for the them to travel to school when they could walk, so we moved!
 

TCO

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2002, 12:35:06 am »
On the never ending subject of coaches picking up school children in Moffats Lane.

Where shall I begin with their activities over the last year or so.  I have witnessed the following..

Coach drivers being poked and pushed (which is assault, but the police turn a blind eye) obscene and abusive language being screamed at the drivers in front of children some as young as six years old.

Eggs, apples and coins being thrown at the coach windows, at the children and at their parents cars, this is without the deliberate blocking of the public highway and the latest activity of driving without due care and attention in front of the coaches to hinder their progress.

All this because two coaches stop for a maximum of 40 seconds each AM and PM.  Is this the actions of  responsible law abiding people?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2002, 02:22:24 pm by admin »
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2002, 02:14:59 am »
40 seconds, i think you had better get your watch fixed mate, start backing your neighbours and consider that if a man has been driven that far he may soon qualify for damages as his mental stability has perhaps been damaged by the actions of these people.
Perhaps having worked hard to obtain and improve his house he would like to enjoy the peace and quiet that this village should offer.
I know what it is like to be harrrased by nuisances, in the end things blow out of proportion.
Why dont the coaches just vary their pick up points to give equal aggravation to every one?
That would be too easy and considerate!
Something which you do not understand?
JET
 

observer

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2002, 06:07:15 pm »
Let's be quite clear about what the main discussion point is with regard to the row over school coaches.

Education is about investment in the future of this country.  I know anything nationalistic is now derided and discouraged but let's be honest.  If we like living here then we should have a care about its future ........
that means good education.  

If a school has organised transport for its pupils it should be supported and the community should be grateful.  

I am sick of people trying to dismantle anything that has a shred of good for the community because of petty small mindedness.

As I understand, the coaches do not pick up or set down outside the front of anyones house, and have not done so for a very long time, (if ever).  They stop alongside gardens, so should not be a problem.

Arguments regarding where parents park etc. are something  completely separate, so be clear what the objection is.  Nothing has changed other than a single person wants to make a fuss and chip away at another good system that works.

Stop whingeing and being obnoxious or move away!
 

Offline Ellie

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2002, 06:35:12 pm »
I don't like the tone of Observer's post.  It sounds elitist and there is a perfectly good comprehensive school within walking distance of anywhere in the village which is why we moved here and is what our children are doing.

Having said that, the thought of small children having to suffer abuse in the morning is appalling.  Surely this is a matter that should be taken up with the schools involved rather than what smacks of a vigilante group, which could, as a poster on the old noticeboard pointed out, stop emergency vehicles getting through.

Part of the issue seems to be parked cars collecting children, considering that they pick up from two places in the village, presumably these are parents from outside the village?  But that is another issue.

 

John_fraser

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2002, 11:15:57 pm »
I’ve never seen the coaches in Moffets Lane, but it appears from the posts that it is the parents dropping off and picking up their children that are the real issue. My experience of other similar situations has shown how inconsiderate people can be when waiting for a couple of minutes, or rather what they think is a couple of minutes but is more like twenty. They often park half over drives, narrow the road, park on bends, keep engines running etc. It can be infuriating – especially the last one when I worked night shifts! People, however, are frequently not deliberately inconsiderate, more often they are not thinking about how their actions affect others. Either way, confrontation will not work and only aggravates people, making them behave worse in future. The best thing – and what must be attempted first - is to educate them and ask them to be considerate.

Someone in the old forum said that the people complaining should write to the school. They were 100% right. Instead of complaining here, where the culprits will not see, knock on doors with a petition; Send it to the headmaster with a letter explaining the problem and a request that they should ask the parents to think about the residence. Many headmasters will co-operate with this and it may work. If it fails then more coercive action may be required, but has it been tried?
 

Offline CarolineB

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2002, 02:06:28 am »
There have been some recent thoughtful posts on this matter. The schools already have tried to address some of the points raised, and sent last term a letter to all parents asking them to be considerate when and where to park, and to make sure that their children would also behave properly. So why has all this become such an issue?

The house owner concerned is acting in an unilateral and irresponsible manner, which is unlawful and dangerous. He is blocking the road for all traffic, including emergenc vehicles. He has been using intimidating behaviour and abusive language, and even has been photographing the girls when waiting for the coach. This is unacceptable behaviour, irrespective of what he is trying to achieve.


But - are the coaches really such a nuisance? They do not stop in front of his house. Set down and pick up is along gardens, and always has been. There are only few coaches during a short time twice a day during term time, and few children are involved. Compare this with the heavy volume of school traffic in roads as Pine Grove and Peplin's Way!

The bus stop fulfils a genuine role for children who do not have other means of transport. It has been there for 17 years. Most children using it are local. Moving the stop to the village centre would compromise safety and overload this site, which is already heavily used.

Issues like parents' parking can and should be addressed. The movement of the coaches is not really  an issue. So why the fuss? Let's address and solve this in a sensible way, and keep the children out of it.


Caroline
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2002, 03:27:44 pm »
Sorry to dissapoint, the problem is never going to be over, like the Norwegan blue parrot in the Monty Python sketch its not dead just resting.
Why is it that if the man in question parks his light van 30 yards fom the junction he is a hazard, but the coach which is four times as big and the parked cars, sometimes right by the post box, facing the wrong way with headlights on dazzling other drivers are not a hazard?
There is a hidden agenda here, what have his neighbours got against him, why dont they support him?
Why doesnt someone volunteer to have the coach stop outside their house thus solving the problem.
Of course its a typical NIMBY attitude.
The coach drivers are arrogant, they have an ill stop where I like attitude, why not turn and park inn Mymms drive, they would then be out front of someones house and cause no annoyance, rather than park 10 foot from the man in questions garden and side room!
If you wonder why I am concerned it is because I lived where buses used to park outside my side garden and leave their engines running, choking us with fumes, our solution was to park our vehicles so that they would still be able to park towards the end of our garden rather than right by the house.
I have no connection with the man in question and have never even spoken to him.
As I have said before why dont people in this once delightfull vilage stick together and back each other up to maintain decent conditions, we have speeding, loutish behaviour, no consideration for verges, rubish just dumped, bonfires and noisy children ruining the enjoyment of peoples gardens, developers capitalising you name it, its tollerated.
I suspect people are to frightened to stand up for themselves. Why? perhaps someone will enlighten me.
regards to all whatever your opinion,
jet
 

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2002, 07:19:49 pm »
For anyone interested, a user of this site has posted a poll on this issue.  You can vote AND add your comments.  It is easier if you add your comments first and then vote (fewer clicks).
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Offline NZer

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2002, 10:50:39 am »
     Has anyone suggested the building of a bus shelter.  Parents could then drop the children off instead of waiting for the bus to arrive.  Then, at the other end of the day, the parents could arrive slightly later to collect, knowing that the children were not out in the wet, thus avoiding some of the congestion (which I have witnessed for myself)
    Its just a suggestion from someone who used to walk each school day to the main road to catch the bus to Barnet, from this very spot !!  (yes, it was some time ago !!) :)
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2002, 01:35:52 pm »
Dear NZer,
a lovelly well meaning sentiment, however where would it go? there is only a few feet of pathway?
Kids+bus shelters= trouble, lets not go down that road.
regards
jet
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2002, 10:38:04 pm »
I am in an impish mood!
just to be flippant, why don't we have a street party where the coaches stop!
oops?
regards,
jet
 

Offline James Bentall

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2002, 11:07:39 pm »
Erm.. bearing in mind that week'll be half term and there will be no school, and therefore no coaches that week ;)

James
James Bentall, Brookmans Park, Herts.
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Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2002, 12:22:30 pm »
I stand corrected!
I will hire one and park it there anyway!
regards
jet
 

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2002, 10:35:31 pm »
This matter has been rather quiet for the last few weeks, presumably because of the school holidays. But I thought it might interest people who do not live in Pine Grove/Georges Wood, to hear that one afternoon last week I drove past five coaches from Chancellor's (well, one coach and four red double deckers) queuing to get out of Georges Wood Road onto the Great North Road.

If the local residents can put up with that twice a day (and the inevitable congestion caused by open evenings, school events, etc) for people who by definition live outside the village, then surely the same tolerance should be granted to the children of the neighbourhood?

Just a thought. :)
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Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2002, 12:13:39 am »
Just a thought Alfred, :)
If one buys a house in a road with a school then one expects school coaches perhaps? ???
When one buys a house as far as possible from a school one would perhaps be forgiven for thinking that the last thing one would have outside ones house would be a school coach?
Mind you I didn't think that buying a house as far away from a school as possible would entail children screaming their little heads of either :'(, but thats another story,
regards,
jet
 

Offline anna

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2002, 04:30:53 pm »
Just to make a small point, you don't always know when you move into an area all the facts because the sellers are hardly like to tell you are they!!! As another post said, I do live in Georges Wood Road.......I moved here to be near the school so my children could walk, and had no idea that my  house would be clouded with coaches and buses in the afternoon. It can take me 20 mins sometimes to get from Brookmans Ave to the  end of Georges Wood Road.....Coaches Block the road getting out of Pine Grove and often cause Havoc. Perhaps I was silly enough to think when I moved here that most people who went to the school were local and most people walked........When I bought the house no one told me!  However I can put up with this......because I moved here for my children, perhaps other people are not so lucky to be able to live local. What I can't stand however, is all the kids standing up in the coaches (shouldn't they be wearing seat belts?), shouting......and kids throwing rubbish into my Garden. ANd the kids that walk, trample all over my frontage, leaving sweet wrappers, a few think its very funny to get my empty milk bottles and roll them down my drive and watch them smash. A major danger for my four children and of course not great for my car tyres either. Would you believe the other day I actually caught a boy weeing into my Garden. MInd you it was funny watching the panic on his face when I let the dog out!!  Sadly I often do this now, I let my dog out so he barks at everyone going past to stop the kids abusing my property.

I know this is slightly off the subject, but all I am trying to say is its not fair to say people knew what they were getting into when the moved near a school. They didn't, it does cause major congestion, and perhaps we should ask ourselves, when so many local children are unable to get into their local school, why are so many children coming from further away, who need to come on coaches. I know of at least 3 children from Mymms Drive and Georges Wood Road who didn't get into the school......so surely this is unfair that we are expected to put up with the disruption but can't get OUR own kids into the school!!!!!

Surely this should be addressed.  If there were more local kids, eventually there would be less coaches wouldn't there?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2002, 07:15:11 pm by anna »
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2002, 07:09:09 pm »
Dear Anna,
I am sorry to hear about the agro you are having, I didn't know of this disruption :(.
It was so easy when I was young, you just went to the nearest school and they were much of a muchness :)
It is such a pity that people have to pay through the nose for even a mediocre education, or is it more money than sense ( bet someone rucks me for that). Education has no effect on IQ but good teachers can certainly bring out the best of ones ability.
Who would work in an urban state school now :'(
regards,
jet
Who really shouldn't have an opinion as he has no offspring, but has one anyway ;)
 

Offline Oly

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2002, 10:47:51 pm »
Why should the kids  get picked up in Brookmans Park if they do not go to school in Brookmans Park, why cant they get picked up in potters bar because they go to school outside of brookmans park. They man who lives on the edge of Calder Avenue and Mymms drive did the right thing when he blocked the road off. He said "how long will it be before someone gets killed".
 

jae

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2002, 06:32:14 pm »
Indeed, just read this post by 'TCO' from February -

On the never ending subject of coaches picking up school children in Moffats Lane.

Where shall I begin with their activities over the last year or so.  I have witnessed the following..

Coach drivers being poked and pushed (which is assault, but the police turn a blind eye) obscene and abusive language being screamed at the drivers in front of children some as young as six years old.

Eggs, apples and coins being thrown at the coach windows, at the children and at their parents cars, this is without the deliberate blocking of the public highway and the latest activity of driving without due care and attention in front of the coaches to hinder their progress.

All this because two coaches stop for a maximum of 40 seconds each AM and PM.  Is this the actions of  responsible law abiding people?   'I DON'T THINK SO'.

And I can add to this report - a man has taken photos of the children waiting for the coach on several occasions. Its very sick, and its horrible to know he's got photos of children.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2002, 02:18:51 pm by admin »
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2002, 06:57:49 pm »
Whilst you are fully entitled to an opinion and your information is wellcome with due respect it takes more than 40 seconds.
In my opinion and I live near the junction the positioning of the coach blocks the road, obscures the junction and the antics of some of the drivers do have to be seen to be believed.
Some of the drivers waiting to pick up children, leave their engines running for long periods while parked. As well as being a pollution nuisance this is also contrary to the law.
A simple solution would be to just park the coach in slightly diferent random positions, ie around the corner or before the corner, this would share out the aggro and at least give the man a random break.
A continual thing that causes a nuisance develops in to a form of paranoia, one literally can live watching the clock waiting for it too happen.
A liitle bit of leeway all around would solve the problem.
I think we have an I'll park where I like attitude from the coach drivers, and I still fail to see why few seem to want to back a resident and most want to praise outsiders?
As long as its NIMBY?
regards,
jet
Just offering simple solution
 

Offline Mooniemad

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2002, 02:10:00 pm »
 I just want to ask if it is possible for the school coach to stop in the village with all the other school buses?
 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2002, 11:14:26 pm »
Having gone for an early walk i was astonished to find that this situation continues. ???
"strangers" awaiting their offspring were parked solid from virtually the corner opposite the post box.
This made it very difficult for other drivers to negotiate the junction. >:(
It must have been gridlock when the coach turned up.
I find it strange that people should demonstrate such poor behavior to their children. :o
Having continued on my perambulation over Gobions I witnesed a "lady" alow her dog to ***p right in the middle of the footpath. :o
Oh well nothing changes does it, how antisocial.
Pointless to remonstrate with such people, I would not wish to sound like an old moaner would I ;)
regards,
jet
 

Offline Alfred the Great

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2002, 12:24:14 am »
I wondered how long into the new term it would take for this thread to take off again!

But I would like anyone who thinks that the Mymms Drive/Moffats Lane situation is bad to try going up or down Pine Grove at about 4pm. I was in a hurry the other week and the water works queue on the Great North Road was right back to Bell Lane, so I thought forget the shock absorbers, go down the Drive and then Pine Grove........and drove right into the mayhem.

And I would like to remind people that most of the users of the coaches at Mymms/Moffats are local, whereas those in Pine Grove must by definition be outsiders, so why aren't they getting any flak?

ATG
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Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2002, 12:37:21 am »
Dear Alf.
I only say what I see. :o
Anna mentioned the pine grove problem a while back somewhere :)
All comes down to me me me first now
regards,
jet



Editor's Note: Edited only to tighten headline
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 10:10:42 am by admin »
 

Offline Margaret

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2002, 11:33:45 am »
With regards to this subject someone mentioned that we should put up with the coaches so the children can get to school as is their right, maybe so but if these children go on a bus to other schools presumably they live in Brookmans Park so why the need to drive them to the coaches anyway, why can't they walk after all Brookmans Park isn't that big and they are all going to senior school and if the parents don't like the idea of them walking on their own, why can't they walk with them. Although this won't solve all the problms it may help a little. As to the mayhem in Pine Grove, if you move near a school you must expect this sort of congestion and surely when checking out the school one must realise it was built to serve the villages of the area (one of the reasons there is so much anger about local children not getting in) therefore needing large amount of coaches. As to the noise and behaviour of the children that is another matter and  should not be tolerated, a strongly worded letter to the headmaster is needed there. But it all comes back to the parents, large amounts of them  behave badly therefore their children do to. A touch of "Blow you Jack I'm all right" which seems to be coming more prevailent. The primary school has the same problems, not coaches but parents parking and driving unneccessarily.
 

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2002, 02:58:40 pm »
I think you should all stop whinging. Back in my day we didn't have any fancy coaches to take us to/from school. I had to walk barefoot through 40 miles of snow each way! (alright, maybe I'm exaggerating a little)
Just think if your kids had to walk that far every day.. you would fear for your children's safety, wouldn't you?
What with all the abductions and stuff that seem to occur frighteningly regularly nowadays...

Anyone who blocks roads and abuses drivers deserves a swift kick in the head. Violence will get you nowhere in life....

 

Offline jet

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2002, 03:37:27 pm »
Dear Larry,
I take it you come from the Arctic or somewhere like it :)
According to El presidente blair, violence will get us everywhere, he must be right :)
regards,
jet
 

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Re: School Coaches
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2004, 10:04:45 am »
I don't often use our car in the morning, but today I had to, and met a large yellow school coach on the bend at the top of Moffats Lane. I am no expert, and I haven't measured the width of the road at that point, but I felt I had to mount the kerb to let the coach through, taking care as I did not to block the path for pedestrians.

The coach driver was extremely good. He was driving slowly and, in my view, responsibly at a speed appropriate for that corner.

However I wonder whether that corner is wide enough for modern traffic needs? This includes coaches and trucks passing each other?

My issue is not about school coaches. They are needed to transport children to school. The point I am raising is whether Moffats Lane is wide enough on the bend for large vehicles.
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